Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "Cult Mom" Lori Vallow Dealth Penalty for Murdering Her Two Children?

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

Lori Vallow Daybell will stand trial for the deaths of her two children. On Monday, an Idaho court found Lori Vallow Daybell fit to stand trial. Seventh District Judge Steven Boyce ordered Daybell’s release from the Department of Health and Welfare after reviewing three evaluation reports. Daybell has been undergoing treatment since last summer, but she will now be be transferred from the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare to Fremont County police’s custody. Daybell arraignment is April 19. The two children, JJ and Tylee, vanished in September, 2019. Their remains were found on Chad Daybell’s property in June 2020.Joining Nancy Grace Today: James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective, Former S.W.A.T. officer, Attorney, The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C., www.ShelnuttLawFirm.com, Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark" Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Nate Eaton - News Director, EastIdahoNews.com Twitter: @NateNewsNow, Instagram: @n.eaton Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, a major decision in the cult mom Lori Vallow case. As you will recall, Vallow led police on a wild goose chase trying to find her children, JJ and Tylee. It was much, much later that their remains, dismembered, burned, buried in a pet cemetery, were found. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Guess what? Cult Mom is going to trial.

Take a listen to this. Finally, we will see Lori Vallow be arraigned on charges of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Her court appearance is set for next Tuesday in the Fremont County Courthouse of Idaho. The first time she'll be seen in court since last May when she was indicted by a grand jury. So here's what's happening now. According to the court order,

Vallow's competency is now restored. She's fit to proceed and she will no longer be in the custody of the Department of Health and Welfare, transferred from an Idaho state hospital to the Fremont County Sheriff ahead of her arraignment. Since last June, Vallow has been deemed incompetent for more than 270 days. She's been treated until she could be restored. Prosecutors in Idaho say she and her husband and co-defendant Chad Daybell used their religious beliefs to justify the killings of her two kids, 7-year-old JJ Vallow and 16-year-old Tylee Ryan, along with Daybell's first wife, Tammy Daybell. Tammy's sudden death happened in October of 2019

in the Daybell home. The children's remains were found on Daybell's property in June of 2020, about nine months after their disappearance. You're hearing our friends at Fox 10, and you heard right. It's been months and months and months on hold waiting for justice in the murders of this little boy, J.J., and big sister Tylee. At the hands, according to police, of mommy, called Mom Lori Vallow, and her brand new husband, I think husband number four, Chad Daybell, the doomsday prophet who predicted the end of the world. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know, James Shelnut, 27 years, Metro Major case, detective, former SWAT, now lawyer with the Shelnut Law Firm. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, joining us out of New York at KarenStark.com. Karen with a C. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's the star of a brand new hit series, Body Bags, with Joseph Scott Morgan on iHeart.

Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute at coldcasecrimes.org. But first, to a very special guest I now call B-E-A-C-H, beach wedding dress online on her husband's Amazon account after he's dead. Wait, wait, before he's dead. Wait, wait, before he's dead and takes off to Hawaii and has a beach wedding. So either she's clairvoyant or she's a killer. All right. While she's in Hawaii, she's hounded by the press. And you see this hand appear over and over chasing Lori Vallow saying, where are your children? Aren't you worried about your children? Are they here? Do you have them hidden away somewhere? That was Nate Eaton. Nate Eaton followed this woman all the way to Hawaii. Nate Eaton joining me right now, news director, eastidahonews.comcom. Nate Eden, this has been a long

row to hoe. Has it not? Yeah, we're looking at over two years now. Oh, that hurts me. Two years? Yeah, two years. It's actually nearly two and a half since JJ and Tylee were killed. They weren't just killed.

They weren't killed because, you know, there's five ways to die. All right. According to medical exam killed because, you know, there's five ways to die. All right. According to medical examiners, I mean, there's a million ways you can be killed, but there's suicide. There is accident. There's natural death. There's undetermined and there's homicide.

All right. They were murdered. They didn't just fall into a shallow grave on their new stepdad's property in the pet cemetery. They were murdered. Go ahead. The condition of their bodies, you might recall, Nancy, too graphic to even describe, but please say that.

No, it's not. No, it's not. Because a jury is going to hear it and our listeners are going to hear it. So tell them how these two children were found. Tylee was found in pieces. She had been dismembered. She had been burned.

They were sifting through dirt looking for bone fragments. That's how horrific her body condition was. Everybody remember, this was a teen girl, just 16 years old, Tylee Ryan. And you heard Nate Eaton say, dismembered, burned, digging, sifting through dirt, trying to find bone fragments, pieces ofiley all right go ahead and they were actually able to find a piece of her tissue which is how they were able to identify her and jj the cute little boy was found uh wrapped in tight plastic and duct tape there was duct tape across his head across his wrist, wearing his red

pajama pants that he had gone to bed in the night before. So there was obviously, or it appears, some thought that went into this as to what happened. And you mentioned, Nancy, that it's been a long road, 270 days since Lori was declared incompetent. And that decision, her attorney filed that motion at the time of her incompetency two days after the indictment came down. So she sat in jail for over a year on other charges that weren't as serious. But then once those murder charges came down, suddenly her attorney filed a motion saying, wait, my client is no longer competent. She was sent away to a state hospital. That's what we call a Hail Mary. Explain it, Shilna. It's called a Hail Mary because you

know that your client is guilty. You know that your client is the subject of a national media trial and you know your client's going to prison and you just throw anything up that's going to stick. Or worse. Prison or worse. Now, let me understand. They are seeking the death penalty on the new husband, Chad Daybell, the stepfather. Why not on cult mom Lori Vallow? Well, they haven't said if they are or not. What has to happen is when she is arraigned next week, at that moment she is arraigned, they have 60 days in Idaho to declare whether they're going to pursue it on her or not. So because Chad was arraigned last year, they've already declared that. The interesting thing to

note is that attorney I mentioned who had Lori who declared the incompetency, he's off the case. Oh, what happened to him? The judge disqualified him because he originally represented both Chad and Lori. And you can't represent two people in a conspiracy case. Lori's new attorney is a public defender who has done multiple death penalty cases, high profile cases. Hold on just a moment. I want to talk about what you just said to James Shelnut, former law enforcement, 22 years on the force. You can't just pass the bar and walk in, waltz in, and try a death penalty case. That's right.

You have to have years of experience under your belt. Typically, you've had to sit second chair with a primary trying a death penalty case. I mean, when I had my first death penalty case, it was the murders of two little babies that were burned alive because of a gang argument, not between the male members, between the female members of the gang over some clothes. So they threw a Molotov cocktail into an apartment and screamed out, let's fry

them babies. Okay, that said, so you can't, no offense to the lawyer, but if he does not have death penalty experience, he can't just come in and try this case. No. I agree with you 100%. And the tip off also, in addition to that, is that you're representing two defendants

in a criminal case. As long as their interests stay the exact same, that's fine. But at some point throughout the case, if their interests diverge, their stories conflict, and you think there's going to be a fair reporting contest, they're going to throw you off both cases, which is exactly what happened here. For those of you that need to have your recollections refreshed, and oh my goodness, Cheryl McCollum, you've been in the court with me many times when I said, Your Honor, may I approach the witness with this document in order to refresh their recollection? In other words, they were not testifying to what they told me they were going to testify, and apparently I had to give them some document to jog their memory. I want you to take a listen to our cut 13. This is KTVB Boise. September 22nd, the last time JJ Vallow was seen. Police interviewed Melanie Gibb and her boyfriend, David Warwick, who were visiting Lori

that weekend. They told police Lori said JJ had turned into a zombie. The next morning, September 23rd, between 8 and 9 a.m., Warwick didn't see JJ and asked where he was. Lori stated he was acting out, so quote, Alex had come and taken JJ. GPS data once again puts Alex on Chad's property that day from 9.55 a.m. until 10.12 a. AM, paying near the pond. All this evidence started coming to light around the first part of June 2020. Just days later, June 9th, police searched Chad's property. They focused on sites corresponding to the GPS from Alex's phone and the strange text to Tammy. JJ and Tylee's bodies were found in those areas near the pond and fire pit. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Think back just a moment. Nate Eaton joining us from EastIdahoNews.com. Nate, cult mom Lori Vallow would tell anybody that would listen, listen, her children had turned into quote zombies. And that has a peculiar meaning for her. That means that it's her duty to kill them because she is one of the chosen. I believe it was 114 or 144,000 people that would go to heaven. And it was her duty to kill all the possessed spirits on earth. Yeah, she believed she and Chad believed they would part of the 144,000 who would usher in Jesus Christ at his second coming. And that if you became inhibited by a zombie, they have this scale, a light and a dark scale, and they would rate people according to the investigators.

So if you were a really righteous, good person, you might have a score of light nine or something. If you were dark, you would have a dark score as well. But then beneath this chart was the zombie level. And they believed, they told their friends, the only way that you could get rid of a zombie out of someone is to either pray it out of them. And if that did not work, if you were unable to cast the zombie out of them, the person needed to be destroyed or killed. And they did that same teaching. Court documents show us that's what happened with Lori's fourth husband, Charles Vallow. He became possessed by this zombie named Ned Schneider. And because of that,

he ultimately was shot and killed. And then Chaz's first wife, Tammy, she also had this possessed zombie in her body. And then, of course, tragically, J.J. and Tylee, J.J. became possessed. And they were open about talking about this, according to their friends. You know, one of her friends arrived here in Idaho, and Lori flat out said, J.J.'s a zombie. He's turned into a zombie. He's climbing all over the cabinets. He knocked down a picture of Jesus that was on the fridge. So they were open about these beliefs with their inner circle.

And tragically, it led to these deaths. Karen Stark, you're the psychologist. Don't you think it's more than a coincidence that everyone that's, quote, possessed by a demon and is a zombie are people that are standing in the way of Chad Daybell having sex with Lori Vallow, his wife, her children, her husband, anybody that irritated them or got on their nerves, suddenly they were possessed and had to die. Well, that makes me, as a psychologist, need to question what this is all about, because it doesn't make sense. If she were mentally ill and saw that people were becoming zombies,

that she was schizophrenic and hallucinating, whatever was going on, it wouldn't be that clear that it was only happening to the people that stood in the way of them being together. No, she is not crazy. And that is what the judge has just ruled. Take a listen to our cut 80, our friends at East Idaho News.

This morning, Judge Stephen Boyce ruled that Lori Vallow Daybell is now competent for trial, meaning the stay in her case, the pause in her case, which has been in effect since last summer, June, will no longer be in effect. And she will be released from the Department of Health and Welfare custody. She has been in Northern Idaho at a facility for the past, well, I would say nearly a year, at least eight, nine months. And she will now be brought back to Fremont County and she will be arraigned. She will have her initial court appearance next Tuesday at 1 o'clock in Fremont County on murder charges for the deaths of her children, J.J. and Tylee, along with Chad Daybell's wife, Tammy.

Cheryl McCollum, of course, her religious theories sound street term crazy to us. Sure. But she is anything but crazy. Remember when the cops were swarming Chad Daybill's farm and they finally went to his pet cemetery? Sure. He got on the phone with Tammy. He got, excuse me, that's the dead wife. He got on the phone with Colt Monlorey Vallow and she said, have they found anything? I believe were her words. She knew darn well what was going on. That one question to me, have they found anything? She knew there was something to find. No question. Let me tell you, my husband called me and went,

the cops have just shown up. And I'll say, okay, fine. Let them in. What's up? Give them a bottle of water for Pete's sake. I would never think to say, did they find anything? Right. Because there's nothing to find that I know of. Well, I think that's a really important distinction for your listeners to understand. If we were just all at a dinner party saying, hey, do you think this woman is crazy? Honey, she's crazy as a rat in a coffee can. However, is she legally insane? Absolutely

not. She wants to brag about, oh, zombies, and we're going to take care of this problem. But she doesn't brag that she stopped that zombie, that she destroyed that zombie. She won't do that. She'll just tell you, oh, zombies are out there and we've got to do something about it. The other issue that people need to remember, JJ would duct tape his hands, his feet, and his mouth. Why would you cover the mouth of a dead person? I believe that baby was alive when that happened to him. Tylee, when she was buried, remember Chad sent a text message to his wife talking about, hey, I shot and killed a raccoon in the pet cemetery. I buried it in case she saw the ground had been disturbed for a grave. They covered this up. They fled.

And there's no way that she's only crazy when it comes to covering this crime. And every other time she's, you know, perfectly OK. Yeah, you can't have selective insanity. And let me ask you this, Nate Eaton. The fact that she has been held all this time in the custody of health and human services, health and welfare. Everybody knows that when you are in the mental ward or the sick bay, you get special treatment. She has had a pretty cushy existence for all this time while she was being evaluated. Well, you could say that.

At this particular facility, they encourage the residents that are there to dress normal in normal street clothes. So she was not in a jail outfit. She was able to wear what she wanted. She was able to do her hair. She was able to do her makeup. She was able to eat decent food. She did meet with psychologists. We don't know the content of what happened with those counselors, but we do know they filed reports about two weeks ago, three different doctors with the Department of Health and Welfare, and those reports went to the judge. So whatever they wrote in those reports obviously showed the judge that something has changed to get her to this level of competency, whether it was medication, whether it was therapy. We don't know. It will be interesting to see how she appears when she shows up for her

arraignment because we have not seen her in person. You know, you're just killing me, Nate Eaton. Death. Death by a thousand words. I'll tell you how he knows she's competent. She is sitting there in the med ward, braiding her hair and making homemade makeup to wear to court. yacking, having good meals, having therapy time, having recreation time, acting perfectly normal. That's why I would totally, totally go to the wardens or the trustees where she is and ask about her behavior. I guarantee you she's acting perfectly normal where she is, Nate Eaton. You could be right, Nancy.

You could be right. I would imagine that is the case. And we'll see how she acts when she comes in. Will she be wearing that pink lipstick when she walks into the courtroom? Oh, you're just really rubbing it in, aren't you? Okay, I got another point. I got another point for you. Take a listen to our cut 21. Now you tell me she's crazy after this.

Go ahead. Police in Rexburg, Idaho, pleaded with the public for help. Two children are missing and haven't been seen since September. It's now just before Christmas. That's four months. Joshua J.J. Vallow is seven years old and described as special needs. His sister, 16-year-old Tylee Ryan,

is devoted to the autistic little boy. The last known video of J.J. came from a ring doorbell camera. The FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children take part in the search. However, mom Lori Vallow doesn't. Police say Vallow is not helping authorities to find the children at all. In fact, Vallow didn't report the children missing. I mean, Joe Scott Morgan, you're the forensics expert, but I don't need forensics to show me that in that case, she already knew the children were dead.

They were dead, according to forensics. And she was doing everything she could to send police on a wild goose chase. She said they were with their relatives. Cops go to the relative's place. They're not there. When they go back to confront her with that knowledge, she has moved out of the home, left and leaves for Hawaii, refusing to answer any questions. She did everything she could to evade police, to keep them from the knowledge, the whereabouts

of her children. That is not insanity. No, it's not. It goes to purpose. And with her actions, and you can see it in that initial moment in time when they begin to look for these kids, she's trying to put as much distance between herself and those bodies because they are bodies at that point in time. She knew that they were bodies. She knew that those children were buried on that property. And still, there's a continuation

with this illness that she allegedly has now. Because let me tell you this, when this case finally makes it to court and they begin to see those images of those children after they have been disinterred, it will send such a shock and a chill up the spine of the court and the members of that jury that she knows what's coming down the tracks at her. You're going to see a dismemberment of a young girl who has been burned. Her body has essentially been desecrated. And then you take JJ's body that's buried on the edge of this dry pond over there. And he has been wrapped multiple times for whatever purpose Mac had mentioned, putting tape over the mouth.

And I think that there's a lot that can be read into that. I think that, in my opinion at least, that with JJ's body, there was some kind of reverence or some kind of weird connection they had to him compared to Tylee. They attempted to literally destroy her in death, Nancy. And there's some kind of dichotomy there. I don't know what it is. I'm not a psychologist. But it just screams to me that these two children were treated different.

And there was a lot of anger directed at Tylee. You know what's interesting when the claim insanity is thrown around? Let's go back to the indictment. Isn't it true, Nate Eaton, joining us from EastIdahoNews.com, that cult mom Lori Vallow was also indicted on a grand theft charge as it relates to Social Security benefits she was getting for the care of minors after they're murdered. They're missing, and she's still getting Social Security benefits for them. That's correct. You might recall when I saw her in Hawaii, she had a plastic bag full of money and bank cards,

and we later learned that those bank cards were not hers. They were Tylee's. They did not belong to her. And that was several months after those children had been killed. So she is faced with that charge. She apparently continued to get those benefits long after her children were murdered. So she's so crazy that she knows how to cash in on our children's benefits. That's because JJ, I think, would you say JJ was autistic?

Was he under the spectrum? Was he ADHD? He was on the spectrum, and he was on medication that really helped, really helped deal with his autism. He's doing really well. And that was another thing that the investigators found inside their townhome is that prescription had not been filled. So they were not giving him the medication. And that was so disturbing to the grandparents. When the babies are, the children are mutilated, dismembered, hermetically sealed and buried in a pet cemetery with the dogs and the cats and the gerbils. She kept taking the checks.

And another thing. What about this, Cheryl? He, Chad Daybell, is charged with insurance fraud for getting insurance on the wife he murdered. Well, let's talk about why he might have done that. If you remember, Lori was angered because Charles, her husband, switched his life insurance policy to his sister Kay. Kay gets a million dollars when he is murdered. And she says, I got nothing for me to raise JJ. Well, that goes straight to motive. You know, you're right. And let's hear from the horse's mouth. Take a listen to our cut for the Madison County Prosecutor Rob Wood.

Lori Daybell was also indicted on the charge of grand theft related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow that were appropriated after the children were missing and ultimately found deceased. Chad Daybell was also indicted on two counts of insurance fraud related to life insurance policies he had on Tammy Daybell, for which she was the beneficiary and received funds after her death. What about it, Karen Stark? Oh, I'm thinking about the fact that people are saying that she believed that God spoke to her and actually told her that she should kill her children. And I think about a case like Andrea Yates where she actually felt that she should kill her children that she was a bad mother and turned herself in actually called and said come come get my children I killed my children and here's Lori Vell saying God spoke to her and yet she knows the difference between right and wrong. She knows

that she should keep the social security check. She knows that she's sending them on a wild goose chase. That's not somebody who is insane and believes that in her religious views, her children are possessed and they're zombies. Nancy, I got to piggyback on that. Go ahead. If you watch what she's doing, she's very careful to let Alex do the dirty work, let Chad do the dirty work. She didn't, by her own hand, kill them.

She also then marries Chad, so he can't testify against her. Then her brother conveniently, of course, dies of natural causes too. She thinks there's nobody that's going to be able to tie her to murder. That's what she believes incorrectly, of course. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Nate Eaton, let me understand. Right now, the two of them are still co-joined. They're co-defendants and are set to be tried together. That's right. The prosecution wants them tried together. He says that the witnesses are going to be the same. The evidence is going to be the same. It will save a lot of money to do it together. There's no risk that there could be where he said, I want these trials these trials severed. The judge responded and said, no, they're going to be held together. That was while Lori was still incompetent. So things could potentially change right now. We

know we have a death penalty case with Chad. The prosecution has 60 days to say if Lori's going to go for the death penalty. If everything goes as scheduled now, they want 10 weeks for the trial starting in January of 2023. What I don't understand, and Shelnut, I want to hear what you have to say. Joining me, James Shelnut, former Metro Major case detective, now lawyer.

Why would they seek the DP on Chad Daybell and not Lori Vowell? I mean, she was the mother. He had no blood relation to these children at all. He just wanted Lori Vallow. And just so you know, what a pickup line. He would tell women that he was married to them in a previous life, so they have already had sex. Why not go at it again? I mean, if you ever heard a pickup line like that, he's going to get convicted on that alone.

But she is the mother. Yeah, this is crazy. So I think Cheryl had a good point. I had not thought about it until she brought it up a minute ago. She's let everyone else do the dirty work on this. She didn't have her hands personally tied in with this. And it doesn't necessarily mean that she is not a death penalty candidate. But I think between that, I think between her mental state, which has been well documented, not excusable of the crimes, but well documented, and the fact that she wasn't hands on, that might be some of the motivation

behind the prosecution not seeking the death penalty on her, although she very much deserves it. Man, to Nate Eaton, I cannot imagine seeking the death penalty on Chad Daybell and not on Lori Vallow. Yeah, you would think that it would be the same, especially because, as I mentioned, the prosecution has said all along, the evidence is the same, the charges are the same, the witnesses are the same, unless they plan to work out some sort of agreement with Lori. If Lori flips on Chad or they have far more evidence with Chad. I do know and have been told on good authority that Chad spends every day in jail in a little room with a laptop. It's not connected to the Internet. Going through all of the evidence.

He's going through it. So he himself is involved in his defense while his attorney is also preparing to defend this death penalty case. Then you've got the whole issue of Tammy Daybell. Take a listen to our cut 23 from KSL TV. Tammy had allegedly died in her sleep. They found her in bed. They didn't know the causes. Mandy was in shock.

I talked to her the day before she died. She says during that last visit with Tammy, something felt off. And she seemed maybe kind of frustrated, and that wasn't typical for her. Things got stranger as Mandy and multiple friends tell KSL that Tammy's husband, Chad Daybell, refused to have an autopsy performed. With so many investigations now involving Chad, Mandy hopes to find closure for her friend. I just can't help but think that I want to know what happened to Tammy.

To you, Nate Eaton, what is the status of the Tammy Daybell death? Tammy Daybell has reportedly died from asphyxiation in her sleep. Well, in her sleep. Perfectly healthy, training for a marathon, and she dies in her sleep. And isn't it true, Nate Eaton, that just before she died in her sleep, her husband, Chad Daybell, now married to cult mom, said that he had a vision that Tammy was going to die?

He went into Tammy, Hugh, one day, about two weeks before her death, and said, Grandpa has appeared to me. You need to go see your family. And their family, her family lived about four hours away driving. And Tammy never made that drive alone. They always went as a family or with Chad. And Chad was really insisting, you need to go see your family. So Tammy got in the car. She drove down by herself on a Friday night, spent the evening with her family, and then drove home. And when she got home, she was fine. And evidence later revealed that has been released is that Chad

thought that Tammy might die or said that Tammy might die in a car crash during that trip. And when that did not happen, two weeks later, she died in her sleep, quote unquote. Her family says looking back now, that was actually really a blessing to them. They were able to spend that time with just Tammy. While all of this other stuff was happening, while Chad had a secret phone that he was texting Lori on, while Tammy's down with her family, saying that Tammy's going to die, Tammy's going to die.

Well, she didn't on that trip, but unfortunately she did two weeks later. And how quickly, after Tammy Daybell's death, did he marry cult mom Lori Vallow? Within two weeks. She died on a Saturday. She was buried on a Tuesday. He left the funeral quickly after it was over, and within two weeks, he was in Hawaii, married to Lori Daybell, with nobody else there, Lori Vallow, nobody else on the beach, just the two of them and a photographer. Cheryl McCollum, do you ever expect charges and the Tammy Daybell death? I do, absolutely. Because again, Nancy, let's just look what all

Lori Vallow has done. She has webbed this whole evil net herself. So she's the one that starts reading these books by Chad Daybell. She goes and meets with him. She moves to his state. She convinces him to help get rid of the children and their bodies in his own backyard. She did all of that, again, believing I'm going to be okay because I didn't really touch any of this. He did, and my brother did. My brother, nobody can do anything with him. He can't be a witness or nothing because now he's dead. But remember, if you back up, she threatened her husband, Charles. She's the one, talk about the spider to the fly. He's supposed to pick JJ up for school.

She got him to walk right into that trap when he's shot by her brother. She's the one that got. And then their stories are so conflicting about how he was shot dead. Yes, but Tylee said it was self-defense as well. That's another reason I believe she was treated different because I believe she said as a 16 year old, I'm going to tell. She was the only witness. She and JJ, they knew what had happened and now all the witnesses are dead. I just don't understand why they would not seek the DP death penalty on cult mom. She's the one connected to all these people. It's not Chad Daybell's children that are dead. It's her children. It's her ex-husband. So why are they seeking the DP on him and not her? Plus,

we have reason to believe her brother, Alex, was the killer of at least JJ.J., if not J.J., and Tylee. Nancy, I honestly think perhaps they're waiting until she was released from the hospital and is capable again. Maybe they were just waiting until that happened to add this additional level to this whole trial. I see no reason that she should not be, you know, given the death penalty. If there was ever a case that begged for it, it is this case to, you know, trap your children in such a way to not search for them. So while they're missing, and we know now dead, you're buying a wedding dress with your dead husband's card. Now you're using your dead daughter's debit card to go to Hawaii and

live like you want to when you're literally on the run. I mean, she didn't go there to get married only. She went there to, again, cover herself from somebody not being able to testify against her and to be on the run, not using her own money. Money continues to be a motivating factor with this woman. Nate Eaton, originally the judge, had these two being tried together, claiming that, and he's right to this extent, that it was a common scheme, a common course of conduct, the same facts, the same witnesses, so they should be tried together. But now that the DP death penalty is being sought on Chad Daybell, I think that changes everything. I think the two are going to be severed and tried separately because there is a constitutional issue under the constitution of the sixth amendment. You have a

right, of course, to a lawyer. You have a right to call witnesses in your behalf and to cross-examine witnesses against you. You have a right to cross-examination in the Constitution. So if they're tried together, what if Chad Daybell tries to call cult mom Lori Vallow? He can't because she cannot be cross-examined. And likewise, if the state tries to use her as a witness against him, she's on trial. They can't call her to the stand. So I have a very difficult time with the two of them being tried together. We've gotten this far. Don't screw it up by not severing the cases. Plus, if they're both going to finally, ultimately, be subjected to the death penalty,

they've got to be tried separately to preserve any conviction on appeal. Right now, has the jurisdiction, has the venue been changed, Nate? It has. It's been changed from Fremont County, which is on one side of the state, to Ada County, which is in our capital, Boise, about four or five hours away.

The cost is going to be enormous, according to prosecutors, because this is such a small county where these crimes happen, to transfer witnesses over staffing issues. So the prosecutor is going to ask next week, on the same day that Lori's arraigned, he's going to ask that jurors actually be bucked in and sequestered here in eastern Idaho. And that could be an interesting decision. Okay, now wait a minute, wait a minute. Let me just analyze what you just said. That's a great alternative, because the whole point of changing a venue is to get a fair and impartial jury. If you could get that jury in this distant jurisdiction and bring them to where all the witnesses are, that would be much more economical than moving all the witnesses, the judge, everybody to another location. Be a lot more simple. So that's on the table. When are we

going to find out if the state, now that she's been declared competent to stand trial, when are we going to find out if the state's going to seek the DP on her? When Lori appears next Tuesday, from that moment, the state has 60 days to declare if they will pursue the death penalty. And I'll be honest, in a lot of cases, they automatically will file that and say, yes, we're going to pursue it because then they can take it off the table later as a bargaining tool or if they decide not to do it. But you can take it off the table later as a bargaining tool or if they decide not to do it. But you can't add it on after 60 days. So it's likely they will do that. And as far as your point about tying them together, Nancy, everything's kind of been a wait and see game with Lori being in the state hospital. Now that she's out.

Why do you keep referring to her on a first name basis? What do you think she's inviting you over after the trial? Well, I'd love to talk with her. I'd love to talk with her. And if she is now, now that she's competent, now that the case has no longer stayed, you could see a lot of moving pieces happen where things, you know, it's about, it's about to get. I just do not understand trying him with a DP and not her. She had the ultimate duty for their safekeeping. She is their mother or was until she had them murdered. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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