Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CULT MOM LORI VALLOW JUST CHARGED WITH ANOTHER MURDER!

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

As Lori Vallow Daybell stands trial for the murder of two of her children, JJ and Tylee, prosecutors in Arizona take another look at Charles Vallow's death. On the morning of July 11, Charles Vallow goes to Lori’s rental home in Chandler, Arizona, to pick up JJ for school.  Alex Cox, Lori’s brother, is also there. Within an hour, Vallow is lying in a pool of blood, shot by Alex Cox. Cox claims self-defense and is not charged. In June 2021, a Maricopa County Grand Jury charged Lori Vallow with one count of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder, in the death of Charles Vallow. Then, another indictment is unsealed. Lori Vallow Daybell is facing a second conspiracy to commit murder charge for allegedly trying to kill Brandon Boudreaux, her niece's ex-husband. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Rex Conner- Lori Vallow Daybell’s Uncle & Co-host of the podcast “Tylee and JJs Silver Linings;” Author: “Lori’s Lies and Family Ties: Healing from the Tyle and J.J. Tragedy” Kirk Nurmi- Legal Analyst and Former Lead Counsel to Jodi Arias (Mesa, AZ); Author of “Trapped with Ms. Arias;” Twitter/Instagram: @nurmiunchained Caryn L. Stark – NYC Psychologist, Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: “Caryn Stark” Rich Robertson – Arizona-based Private Investigator for Brandon Boudreaux and Larry & Kay Woodcock; Owner of R3 Investigations  Dr. Todd M. Barr, M.D. – Deputy Medical Examiner/Forensic Pathologist at Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner’s Office (Cleveland OH)  Nate Eaton – News Director/Reporter for East Idaho News; Twitter: @NateNewsNow, Instagram: @n.eaton See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cult mom Lori Vallow. Oh, wait, did you think that was over? When she got convicted in the murders of her two children? Tylee age 16 and JJ age 7? No, no. Remember the children's bodies were found. JJ was basically hermetically sealed and almost perfect condition. Tylee had been eviscerated, horribly, horribly dismembered. Yes, she was convicted. She did not get the death penalty, but her cases are not over

yet. Does the name Charles Vallow ring a bell? He's one of the many dead bodies connected to cult mom Lori Vallow. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. Charles Vallow, I believe, gunned down in cold blood at the behest, I believe, of cult mom Lori Zallo after she lured him to the location. As a matter of fact, let me jog your memory. Listen. I had a fight with my brother-in-law and I shot him in self-defense.

Is he breathing? I can't tell. Are you willing to go over to him and check? Sure. Yeah, there's blood. He's not moving. He's pretty nonchalant, lackadaisical. Yeah, there's blood.

He's not moving. Listen to more. I turned around, and he hit me in the back of the head with the bat. So I went to my room and got my gun, and I was carrying it. So you went to your room, meaning the room you're staying in? Yeah. Okay, and you brought a gun with you? Yes.

Do you always bring a gun? I don't consume carry. I always just to be safe. Hi, who are you? Hi. Okay, just stand over there for just a second, guys. And then I told him to put the bat down and he wouldn't and he came at me again. He doesn't sound upset at all. And there is a legal theory called cooling off period number one.

I don't believe that Lori Vallow, Colt Mom Lori Vallow's brother, Alex Cox, was ever hit with a bat. I don't think that's true. But even so, he goes into the house and comes back with a gun. That's called a cooling off period. This turns into not self-defense, but murder. Well, it's not over yet. And remember, Lori Vallow is there at the time her ex-husband, her husband, Charles Vallow, is gunned down dead by her brother. This is all her maneuvering. Listen. So you told them to put the... Yes.

So where are you at? Where are you at now? Did you stay in your bedroom? No. Okay, why didn't you stay just in your bedroom and close the door? Is that something you didn't think about? It didn't even occur to me okay so walk me through it so you go back in your room so i just went back to the living room like

what is your problem with the gun yes and i said i want you to put that bat down he wouldn't do it he's like and he came at me with the bat again after he'd already hit me in the head so i shot him to stop him yeah i don't believe that for one minute. Standing by, egging the whole murder on, cult mom Lori Vallow. Guys, again, thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, to the news director of the EastIdahoNews.com, who has been about three inches up cult mom Lori Vallow's tailpipe since the get-go before her children were ever found. He smelled a rat chaser all the way to Hawaii and back in an effort to find JJ entirely.

Now we're on to another murder. Nate Eaton joining us. Nate, thank you for being with us. What happened to Charles Vallow? Charles Vallow went over to pick up his son, JJ, to take him to school. It was July of 2019. And when he went in the house, the account was that he got into some sort of argument with Alex Cox, Lori's brother.

Tylee was there. JJ was there. Lori was there. Oh, darn. All the other witnesses are dead. Alex Cox is dead. JJ is dead. God rest his soul. Tylee is dead. God rest her soul. The only person left to tell the story is cult mom Lori Vallott. You think I'm taking her word for anything? If she told me the sky was blue, I'd say no, it's absolutely red. Go ahead.

Right. So that's when Alex Cox says that Charles, as you mentioned, came after him with a bat. Now, remember, Nancy, Charles was an athlete. Charles played baseball. He's not going to swing and miss when you hit someone in the head with a bat. And that's when Alex said in self-defense he had to get a gun. He shot Charles. It came out, though, later in court that Charles was not just shot once. Charles was shot when he was lying on the ground. They found a bullet in the floor underneath his body. That's when Lori Vallow left with her son, JJ, went to Burger King. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you just say after his father is gunned down in front of him, they go celebrate at Burger King? And didn't they go buy flip-flops

or something at Walmart or Costco? Yeah, Walgreens. They stopped by Walgreens and got a pair of flip-flops. Then she dropped JJ off at school and came back to that house. And that's where we've seen that video where she's kind of laughing and saying she just moved into the neighborhood while the police are interrogating her and investigating the death of her husband. Does your husband live here? No, he lives in Houston. Gotcha. We just moved in here. Gotcha.

How long have you guys lived here? How long have you lived here? Like three weeks. Oh, geez. Yeah, okay. That's why the neighbors don't know us. Gotcha. How long have you guys lived here? How long have you lived here? Like three weeks. Oh, geez. Yeah, okay. That's why the neighbors don't know us. Gotcha. Like, hi neighbor, sorry. Are you working at all?

No. Okay. And you're still about five, six? Yeah. One-twenty? Mm-hmm. Start where you think it makes the most sense. Okay. So, um... I told you.

It's a crazy question. Well, so we moved into this house three weeks ago because he offered to get me a house here where all my family is, over in Houston. You're hearing cult mom Lori Vallow speaking. Guys, Charles Vallow, just one of the many bodies, dead bodies connected to cult mom Lori Vallow. And now she has taken to a new jurisdiction to answer up on those charges. But that's not all as it relates to Charles Vallow. Their problems go way back before she saw to it that he was shot dead. Take

a listen to body cam footage of cops talking to Charles Vallow on an earlier occasion. So what's going on tonight? I can't get in touch with my kids. How old are your kids? Six and a half and sixteen. Okay. How long have you been trying? Two days. Okay. But she's lost her mind. I don't know how else to say it. We're LDS. She thinks she's a resurrected being and a God and a member of the 144,000. Jesus is coming next year. She took all the money out of her bank account today. You're hearing

the voice of now murdered Charles Vallow on a previous occasion. He's trying to get his son and can't find him anywhere. And he's talking to cops about it. Listen to more. My truck has gone from the airport. She went to the airport and got it I just flew in from Houston from Dallas so where's your truck I don't know a friend of mine's truck picked me up I went to the CSI to file a report bridges or something file a report so you did you did you did the petition yeah they ordered a pickup okay what. What time did you do that? Hour and a half ago. Okay.

So what makes her a danger to herself and to others? She threatened me, murdered me, killed me. She threatened to murder you? Yes. Joining me right now is Rex Conner. This is cult mom Lori Vallow Daybell's uncle, host of a podcast, Silver Linings, and author of an incredible book, Lori's Lies and Family Ties, Healing from the Tylee and JJ Tragedy. Rex Conner, thank you for being with us.

When I hear Charles Vallow speaking, it's heartbreaking. He's telling the cops, she's threatened to kill me. It is heartbreaking. No one can hear that and just not be heartbroken by the fact that he's trying to get her help. He's not afraid for his own life or cowering. He's trying to get help for Lori. As it stands right now, Nate Eaton joining us from EastIdahoNews.com with the new murder charges regarding the Charles Vallow murder. Is she facing the death penalty? At this point, prosecutors have not said that because it's a conspiracy to commit murder

charge. As of now, it's not. But remember, Nancy, it's not just one charge. It's two for the conspiracy to commit the murder of her nephew at the time, her nephew. The nephew is still alive. FYI, update, you don't get the DP if the victim's still alive. The only way she's going to get the DP is if they charge her correctly with murder one, not just conspiracy, and pursue the death penalty. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Back to you, Rex Conner. She's been threatening to kill him forever. And she did it. She was there. She arranged it. She lured him there to pick up JJ. And now he's dead. He told cops, she wants to kill me.

What is the problem? Yeah, that's up to the prosecutors. We just, you know, we want justice and we want the most amount of justice you can get in this life. So I personally have that feeling when I'm with you on that. Rich Robertson is joining us, Arizona-based private investigator for Brandon Boudreau and the Woodcock family. He owns R3 Investigations. You can find him at r3investigations.com. Rich Robertson, your client, Boudreaux, he was shot at by this gang, headed up by Lori Vallow.

Listen. Brandon Boudreaux calls 911, reporting that someone shot at his car as he drove into his neighborhood. He believes Lori's brother, Alex, was the trigger man. Boudreaux had been married to Vallow Daybell's niece, Melani Palowski, but after they divorced, Valo Daybell believed Boudreau, like her ex-husband Charles, was controlled by a dark spirit. And according to Valo Daybell, the only way to get rid of a dark spirit is to kill it.

Rich Robertson, what do you say? Well, we're certainly going to find out what the evidence is that links Lori to all this. And it was, I think it's pretty well settled that Alex Cox was the guy who not only shot Charles Vallow in July, but then in October of 19 was the guy who put the gun out the back of a Jeep Cherokee and fired a shot at Brandon as he pulled into his driveway. Who was behind arranging all of that, what the evidence is, all the communications that was going on between Alex, Lori, Chad, whomever, text messages, phone calls, cell tower tracking. I'm sure all of that is going to be the evidence as to who was involved in the conspiracy.

Guys, you're hearing Richard Robertson, high profile private investigator based in Arizona. Kirk Nurmey is very well known legal analyst, former lead counsel to none other than Jody Arias. Man, I bet she schooled you on defense, defense attorneying. Author of Trapped with Ms. Arias on Amazon, Kirk Nermy. Lightning round. Who would benefit from Charles Vallow's death? Oh, there's no doubt about it. Lori. Who threatened to kill Charles Vallow? Lori. Anybody else? Not that I know of. Who's home? Lori's. And who was there when he was murdered? Lori, JJ, Tylee, and Alex Cox. Question to you, since she's the only one that would have benefited from Charles Vallow's death and she had threatened to kill him in the past, why is she not charged with murder one? Why is there not even a bid for the death penalty? You know, she's sergeant of the conspiracy subsection now,

which doesn't make her death penalty eligible. It has to be amended. And I wonder, we have to keep in mind those original reports, the original investigation by Chandler PD concluded for whatever reason that Alex acted in self-defense. So there could be evidence in there that precludes the idea that Lori was directly involved that would make it difficult for prosecutors to charge, amend the indictment to charge first-degree murder and make it a death penalty eligible offense. Are you telling me, Kirk and Nermy, after representing Jodi Arias and all you went through with her, all of her lies and her deceptions, her tricks, her maneuvering with you,

you are telling me you actually believe what Alex Cox said, the so-called angel of death? No, I'm not telling you that I did. I'm telling you that the Chandler police did and they concluded the investigation as a self-defense. Well, they need to reopen that because she's standing by licking her lips at the moment. Vallow is dead thinking she's going to get his money. Little did she know he was so afraid of her. He changed his will and gave everything over to his sister to take care of J.J. Guys, let's hear more of Charles Vallow speaking about Lori Vallow threatening to murder him.

She's had kind of a grudge from the United States. She thinks she's... You're LDS? Yes. She thinks she's married to Moroni in the past. You think she's what? Married to Moroni on top of the temple. Angel.

Angel. LDS. Angel. Angel. LDS. Angel. They don't let me in there. Probation. And she knows when the second coming is happening next year. So there's a prophet. Okay.

He knows and she knows. She knows about it. She meets with Moroni and Jesus Christ face to face in the temple every day. I've tried to support her as much as I could. But it's gotten really, really bad lately. She's had a break. She says, I'm Nick Schneider. I've taken over Charles' body.

And Charles has been killed. I'm going to kill you. You're going to be murdered today or tomorrow. Okay, Nate Eaton, she actually says to Charles Vallow, I'm going to kill you. You'll be killed today or tomorrow. And then he's murdered. Explain to me why she's not charged with murder one. I don't get it. I can't answer. That would be a question for the prosecutors. We just know that Charles Vallow did raise the warning sign. It was there

on tape, as you said, that Lori was making these statements. They did eventually reconcile back together after that, you know, situation with the police. But, yeah, he was warned. She warned him about this. And unfortunately, it happened. Now he's dead. Here is more of Charles Vallow telling cops cult mom Lori Vallow was going to kill him. She's not here. She lost her reality.

We've been at a great marriage. All of a sudden the last month just blew up. I will kill you because you're not Charles and nobody will care. Okay. So she, she at this point doesn't think you are her husband? She thinks I'm Nick Schneider. Who's Nick Schneider? I have no idea. Okay. The name she used. I don't know where it came from. Okay. I just, I'm just like, I'm as bewildered as you are. Yeah. The marriage was perfect until just recently. What happened? Where did she get it in her head that her husband, Charles Vallow, was an evil spirit? Hmm. Where could that have come from? Take a listen to our friend, Jackie Howard. Charles and Lori Vallow meet and marry

in 2006. Lori has two children from another marriage. Charles has three sons. They live in Kauai for a time in 2014, but move back to the continental U.S. sometime between 2016 and 2017, living in Arizona. It's during this time that Lori Vallow reportedly meets Chad Daybell at a religious conference in St. George, Utah. The couple hit it off and appear on several end-of-the-world style podcasts. Charles and Lori's marriage, however, turned sour. Joining me, Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan at karenstark.com. Karen, I think I know what happened. She meets Chad Daybell, the so-called prophet.

His pickup line, believe it or not, is we were married in a past life, so we might as well run over to that motel right now. And it worked. Suddenly, this woman believes she is a goddess of sort on a heavenly mission. And she is with Chad Daybell. That's why Vallow needs a divorce. That's what happened. I guess he just didn't know it when he was talking to police.

I don't know if he knew it, but I do know that Chad actually appealed to her narcissism, and by calling her a goddess, that was perfect for Lori. And Nancy, Charles Bellow, even in the divorce, was worried. And he said, I don't know what she's going to do with them, her children. I don't know if she's going to flee with them or she's going to hurt them. So he was worried about the safety of himself and his children. Very worried. And as a matter of fact, she meets up with Chad Daybell. And what happens next? Listen. Charles Vallow files for divorce in 2019. He claims that Lori views herself as a god

and has said she would kill him if he ever gets in her way of preparing for the second coming of Christ. The morning of July 11th, Charles Vallow goes to Lori's rental home in Chandler, Arizona, to pick up his son, JJ, for school. Alex Cox, Lori's brother, is also there. Within an hour, Vallow is lying in a pool of blood shot by Alex Cox. Cox claims self-defense and is not charged. Lori marries Chad Daybell. To Rex Conner joining us, Lori Vallow's uncle and host of Silver Linings.

Tell me your understanding of how call mom Lori Vallow meets Chad Daybell and what ensues. Well, they were both interested before they met in this end of the world stuff, the so-called doomsday stuff. And so they met at a conference of people that get together and talk about preparing for the end of the world. Not a popular thing amongst most people, but there is a group that meets and talks about it. So when they met, I like the way her brother, Adam, the good brother, describes it. When they met, it was the perfect storm. He just appealed to just what she wanted. She appealed to what he wanted. And they allowed themselves this alternative reality that they created together and just ran with it. It was just a perfect storm of evil.

Also joining me, Rich Robertson, Arizona PI for Brandon Boudreau, who almost ended up dead at the behest of Lori Vallow, according to police. What do you make of her relationship with Chad Daybell and the subsequent murder of Charles Vallow? was definitely having an affair with Chad prior to the time that Charles filed his divorce. I think that was one of the reasons he did it. And she was in his group, the prepare of people. She was kind of a subsection of all of that. And Chad Daybell had ideas that she glommed on to and she was doing podcasts herself along with some others in support of all that and and somehow came to subscribe to all of these kind of strange beliefs about

dark spirits and becoming a god herself. And it sure looked like they were trying to, you know, get rid of things that were holding them back. All of these murders happened in a very short period of time in 2019. And she cleared the decks of her husband and then her kids. And then he cleared the decks of his wife. And then they went after Brandon. So it was all very, very quick. It was happening. Joining me is Dr. Todd Barr,

board certified anatomic clinical forensic pathologist. He's featured in Thin Places, essays from In Between. Dr. Barr, it's great to have you on with us. I want to talk about Charles Vallow. We now know that he was shot. He fell to the ground, most likely was still alive. And Alex Cox and or Lori Vallow comes up to him and shoots him again as he's on the ground, the bullet getting wedged in the floor underneath him. Dr. Barr, knowing that he was very likely still alive from the first shot, what did he endure before that second shot? Well, he would have been, you know, losing blood along the way. And I'm not sure what injuries he sustained, but it seems like it was not initially a terminal or a fatal wound so that he was slowly bleeding out. And what he would be doing is he would be suffering from the pain of whatever areas were hit by that first

initial bullet. And then he would be also starting to lose consciousness from the loss of blood. So he's becoming hypoxic, meaning he's not getting any oxygen to his brain or to his vital organs. So he's literally just hanging on by a thread, suffering in pain and losing consciousness. When he looks up and the last thing he sees is Alex Cox and or cult mom, Lori Vallow standing over him with a gun. Can he make it out? Doctor, could he see that? He definitely could have seen that.

I mean, if he, if he was, if he was conscious and he opened his eyes, he would have seen that gun pointed at him. I mean, this is, this is like an execution style killing. And know chris mcdonough joining me director cold case foundation

former homicide detective you can find him at coldcasefoundation.org or his youtube channel the interview room let's don't forget chris mcdonough that there is another victim in this case. His name is Brandon Boudreaux, and it's just an angel on his shoulder that kept him from also being a cult monologue valo orchestrated murder. Listen to this, Chris McDonough, our cut 537. 911, where's your emergency? Someone just shot my window. 911, where's your emergency? Someone just shot my window. Okay, where at?

I'm in the Cooley State Highway, but I can see them driving off. Okay, someone shot at your vehicle? Yeah, and it hit my window. It shattered my driver's side window. Okay, when you pulled into his driveway? As I was trying to pull into my driveway. Sorry, I'm a little lost for breath. They just drove off.

I saw them drive off. Okay. Do you know who these people are? I have no idea. I moved into a new home about a week ago. Well, we figured out who it was. Chris McDonough, are you surprised that there's yet another intended murder victim? Not at all, Nancy. And in fact, if you listen to that call, right as we listen to that call,

he's saying they, them. So there's more than one. And if we could take that back to the crime scene in Chandler, the fact that this whole case, in my opinion, I would submit is going to revolve around a recreation, a restructure of that particular crime scene that day. Because the positioning of the body, the shell casing positioning, the bat positioning, and the coup de grace potentially through the floor or into the floor, the hat position where, you know, may belong to Charles at the time. All of those things are going to weigh heavily into the, not what they said, but what we're seeing. And it's going to turn right into another Murdoch situation where that recreation of that crime scene is going to be critical. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Joining me is Rich Robertson, Arizona PI at R3 Investigations. The PI for Brandon Boudreau, who was this close to getting murdered, orchestrated by Lori Vallow. Question to you, Rich Robertson, why did cult mom Lori Vallow want Brandon dead? Well, that's going to be an interesting question that's going to come up. I mean, Brandon's wife at the time, Melody, is Lori Vallow's niece. And they were, she had become part of that group. And she was involved in the same belief system, and it was creating a lot of family tension. So Brandon was upset that his wife was being sucked down this rabbit hole

that Lori had got her involved in. And it certainly appears that Lori was helping, quote unquote, her niece deal with this problem. And her problem was Brandon. Question to you. Who do you believe was involved in taking a shot at Brandon Boudreaux? Well, I have no doubt it was Alex Cox in the back in the Jeep that day. Why?

Well, all the evidence suggests that and all the travel that was going on. I think the evidence is going to show, as I understand what's been collected in this, is a lot of electronics communications going on between Alex and Lori at the time of the shooting. And I'm sure that there are some cell tower type of records that are going to place Alex at or near that crime scene. So I think there's going to be a lot of corroboration for who was saying what and where they were at the time. And what type of vehicle was the perp driving? This Jeep that he was driving was actually Charles Vallon's vehicle. He had given it to Tiley. It still had Texas plates on it. And after Jeep had been up to Rexburg and then back again.

And they were, it was, I mean, all this was kind of put together later, but that was the vehicle that Brandon kind of recognized. He saw that vehicle, he was aware of it being Charles. And given the circumstances of what happened to Charles, it certainly raised Brandon's suspicions about who was responsible for this. Listen, Lori Vallow Daybell wears an orange Maricopa County jail uniform for her first Arizona court appearance. She says little during the brief arraignment, stating her name and date of birth when a judge asks. The court issues a not guilty plea on her behalf. Lori Daybell's Arizona trial is set to start April 4th. Guys, take a listen to our cut 523, Maricopa County judge addressing cult mom Lori Vallow. Good morning, Keith Terry and Danae Sookie on behalf of Ms. Vallow,

who's present appearing in custody. Thank you. And ma'am, could you state your full name, please? Lori Vallow Daybell. And your date of birth? 6-26-73. All right, then this is the time set for the not guilty arraignment on each count. We'll start with number six. As to number six, ma'am, you are before the court on count one. We'll enter a not guilty plea on your behalf. Do you have a reading? Yes, sir. So Ms. Vallow, you are appearing here on two cases.

These are both grand jury warrants. What that means is that the grand jury here in Arizona has indicted you on two charges. The first case is CR 2022-001-242-001. You're being charged in that case with one count of conspiracy to commit first degree murder. It is a class one felony committed on October the 2nd of 2019. The second case is CR 2021-001-704-001. In that case, you're also being charged with one count of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder. It is also a Class 1 felony. That offense allegedly occurred on July 11th of 2019.

Now, I do have to advise you of your right to have an attorney and the right to remain silent. I will appoint counsel for you in both cases. I have a court date coming up for you called a not guilty arraignment hearing. Nate Eaton, what's the very latest in Colt Mom Lori Vallow's most recent murder case? Well, she pleaded not guilty. So they have scheduled another hearing, which will happen in a couple of weeks. And they, you know, remember in Idaho, Nancy, she did not waive her right to a speedy trial. So one would assume she will not do the same thing in Arizona.

So there could be a trial within the next 60 days or up to, I think they have 270 days if she doesn't waive her right to a speedy trial. So that could happen, you know, here in the next few months. Listen to more. In both cases, you've been extradited from the state of Arizona. You're currently under the jurisdiction of the Idaho Department of Corrections. That makes you non-bailable at this hearing. So you're not eligible for bail in either case.

You do have your court date. You know a lawyer is going to be appointed for you. Do you have any questions? Are those cases going to be combined, or are they going to be done separately? Well, they are two separate cases, but they're going to be handled at the same hearing. Okay. Okay. So you can talk to your lawyer, but they are two separate cases,

which means that you'd have two separate proceedings going forward if it goes to trial. Okay. Any other questions? Just one attorney or more attorneys will be assigned to me? Well, at this point in time, you're likely going to have the one lawyer represent you at this particular hearing. Granted, we're on the outside looking in, but I think it is a grave mistake that the state is not charging her with murder one. There are so many dead bodies connected to her. She's already convicted in the murders of her son, J.J., age 7,

her daughter, Tylee, age 16, the murder, the asphyxiation death of Tammy Daybell, who is, of course, Chad Daybell's previous wife. She had to die so he could marry cult mom Lori Vallow. Now we've got Charles Vallow. And I've never been convinced that Joseph Ryan died of natural causes. I don't believe that. I think she killed him, too, and by the time they found him, he was so decomposed, they just chalked it off to a heart problem. Am I the only one that thinks that Nate Eaton? There's a lot of

people that think she was connected to that death, but as you said, I don't know if we'll ever truly know because, you know, his remains were cremated. Oh yeah, they rushed him straight for a cremation. Right, yeah. This may be their last chance to seek the DP on her, and it's getting botched. She's already got life behind bars, but I understand she's filing her appeal on her convictions in the murders of JJ and Tylee. Listen. Lori Vallow-Daybell and her attorneys are appealing her conviction to the Idaho State Supreme Court. The attorneys have cited 16 issues on appeal. Included in the amended appeal is questions of whether Lori was competent to stand trial, having spent 10 months in a mental

hospital, and whether the court erred in denying the defense's expert's request to send Lori back to the mental facility. The attorneys are also asking for reporter transcripts from 35 specific days throughout her case. No court data has yet been set for her appeals. Nate Eaton joining us. Nate, what do you say? Right. She did file an appeal. And so that's happening in Idaho as this is unraveling in Arizona. Should she be found guilty in Arizona and sentenced to life in prison, they'll return her back to Idaho where she will serve out the sentence. The only way that Arizona would keep her is, as you mentioned, if she was sentenced to death in Arizona. Nancy? Yes, jump in. I just want to tell you that the whole time, if you see

any pictures of her while all this is going on, she was smiling. She had makeup. She had her hair done. Totally cool, unaffected, laughing. This woman is a psychopath. You're right, Karen Stark. Every single time, the only time that she did not appear that way was when photos of JJ and Tylee were going to be seen in court, and she didn't want to see it and wanted to leave the courtroom. Didn't she keep her head down that whole time, Nate Eaton? Right. You recall that was one of the first days of the trial. She said to the judge, her attorney said Ms. Vallow would like to be excused. And the judge said, you know, we're not going to let all the...

O-H-E-L-L-N-O. Right. Uh-uh. So she did... You did it. You-L-N-O. Right. Uh-uh. So she did therapy. You did it. You're going to look at it. Right. Let's see what happens in this case.

Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.