Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CULT MOM LORI VALLOW: MORE MURDERS?

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

Cult Mom Lori Vallow has begun her sentence of life in prison for the death of two of her children. She now faces extradition to Arizona, to face charges related to her late husband, Charles Vallow's killing.  Her current husband Chad Daybell is currently waiting on his trial to start. Will he place the blame on his wife? What's ahead for Lori Vallow? Joining Nancy Grace Today: Rex Conner- Lori Vallow Daybell’s Uncle & Co-host of the podcast “Tylee and JJs Silver Linings;" Author: “Lori’s Lies and Family Ties: Healing from the Tyle and J.J. Tragedy”   Adam Cox - Lori Vallow Daybell’s Brother & Co-host of the podcast “Tylee and JJs Silver Linings”, Author: “Lori’s Lies and Family Ties: Healing from the Tyle and J.J. Tragedy”   Mark Tate -Trial Lawyer at TateLawGroup; Twitter: @TateLawGroup Dr. Angela Arnold – Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA. Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Robin Dreeke – Behavior Expert & Retired FBI Special Agent / Chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program; Author: “Sizing People Up: A Veteran FBI Agents Manual for Behavior Prediction;” Twitter: @rdreeke Dr. Tim Gallagher – Medical Examiner State of Florida; Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine; Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference  Nate Eaton – News Director/Reporter for East Idaho News; Twitter: @NateNewsNow, Instagram: @n.eaton See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cult mom Lori Vallow guilty, guilty in the murders of her children, Tylee and JJ. But that's not the end. Cult mom Lori Vallow facing more murder charges in another jurisdiction. Will she get the death penalty there? Not only that, will she be a key witness against her prophet husband, Chad Daybell? Is he planning to put all the blame on her at his murder trial? Will he get the death penalty? Or are they both going to throw brother Alex Cox under the bus?

In the last hours, we see cult mom Lori Vallow's mugshot. She is glammed to the max with a full face of makeup and a full head of hair and a smirky smile. This after being convicted in the murders of her children. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, I want you to hear what she said. Oh yes, she did. Take a listen. Many angelic visitors have come and communicated with me and even manifested themselves to me. Because of these communications, I know for a fact that my children are happy and busy in the spirit world because of my communications with my friend Tammy Daybell I know that she is also very happy and extremely busy oh okay since

they're very happy and they apparently have new jobs in heaven, and I'm not saying that I doubt that, I guess cult mom Lori Vallow is using their post-mortem happiness actually quotes Christ as a reason she should not go to jail. Take a listen. I would like to start by quoting John from the New Testament in the Bible. In John chapter 8 verse 7 Jesus says, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. Then in verse 15, Jesus says, ye judge after the flesh. I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true.

Okay, she's conveniently leaving out that little caveat. The Ten Commandments thou shalt not kill but she goes on and somehow and I'm not saying this in jest I'm saying this in anger somehow she's using or trying to use our Lord Christ as a PI, a private investigator. Listen to cut four, five, two. Brace yourself. Jesus knows me. And Jesus understands me.

I mourn with all of you who mourn. My children and Tammy. Jesus Christ knows the truth of what happened here. Jesus Christ knows that no one was murdered in this case. Accidental deaths happen. Suicides happen. Fatal side effects from medications happen nate eaton joining me along with an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now and what is coming next for cult mom laurie vallow

nate eaton news director east idaho news.com on the story from the very beginning he was the one chasing cult mom laurie vallow along the sidewalk in Hawaii asking her, where are your children? Where are your children? Where are your children? That was him. That's how long he has been trying to find JJ entirely. Has been in the courtroom since day one. I'm actually getting chills that this woman used Christ as a reason she should not go to jail. I'm all for her knowing the Lord. I'm

happy for her in that context. And she can do that behind bars. She will be doing that behind bars for the rest of her life, Nancy, because the judge sentenced her to five life sentences, three consecutive that will run one after the other, after the other, the two concurrent. So and this is no chance of parole. She will be in prison the rest of her life. I think when she said that statement in court, you know, we haven't heard anything from Lori for the past three and a half, four years. Why do you insist on calling her by her first name, like your friends? We haven't heard a word from her, Nancy. And so I think everybody was waiting to see, will she finally admit that she did something wrong? Will she finally say,

apologize? Will she finally give a reason for why this happened? So when she went on and on for about 10 minutes, quoting the scriptures, quoting Jesus, I think many people were just aghast. That was her comment. I mean, right out of the gate, she goes to one of my favorites, John. I'm just, okay, let me get away from that. But to say that her children are happy and busy and heaven. And there was one point where, guys, Mark Tate, you were watching the verdict right there with me.

Yes. I mean, the Senate saying Mark Tate is with me, high profile trial lawyer with the Tate Group. And you can find him on Twitter at Tate Law Group. law group, she actually said that her son, seven-year-old JJ, said, Mommy, you didn't do anything wrong. God, it's just disgusting. And I say this, Nancy, and I bring to your discussion sometimes a point of view that you don't necessarily appreciate. But I'm going to tell you, I have dealt with a lot of prisoners. And I used to work in the Georgia Prisoner Legal Counseling Project, reviewing convictions and various other aspects of prison and sentencing. This is one of the worst

defendants that I can remember who's actually allowed to and does choose the option of talking to the families of the victims the way she did. It's unbelievable. And there's just no indication of any kind of remorse. In fact, it's more like this thing, this woman is actually celebrating and saying that she did good. And, you know, this is the kind of thing that churns the stomach, even among people who oppose the death penalty. That's the kind of comment you hear where you're thinking, you know, if there ever was a need, if there was a reason, even if it's just retribution, that woman screams out for it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, with me, in addition to our all-star panel,

Dr. Angie Arnold with us, Robin Drigg, Dr. Tim Gallagher, Nate, of course, Nate Eaton, Mark Tate, two very special guests joining me right now. Adam Cox, who is Lori Vallow's brother, and Rex Conner, Lori Vallow Daybell's uncle and host of a podcast. And I'm very intrigued by the name of this podcast, Tylee and JJ's Silver Linings. Rex is also the author of Lori's Lies and Family Ties, Healing from the Tylee and JJ Tragedy. Wow, just the way you put that in that title really says it all. Lori, it's Lori Vallow's lies and family ties healing from the Tylee and JJ tragedy. To you, Adam Cox, this is Colt Mom Lori Vallow's brother. I would like to hear your reaction. And I apologize if I'm coming down hard on Lori Vallow to the extent that it may hurt your or Rex's feelings.

But I believe it's completely true, everything that I'm saying. Yeah, we're not we're not offended by anything that you said, Nancy. You know, it's just it's a tragedy. It is. It's hard to it's been hard to deal with for the last four years. And, you know, anytime that you see a member of your family that was that has made such a huge change in their life. And, you know, obviously when you listen to her speak, she's delusional, she's out of her mind, basically. Otherwise, you know, a rational person wouldn't do or say what she said in court. So I think that she's living in a delusion and, or, you know, I, I, I just never, I just never had seen her like this until, you know, she changed a while back. And, uh, so Rex and I had come together and did a podcast and wrote a book about, you know, healing from it because, you

know, there's a lot of families and people out there that it's not just my family that has gone through. I mean, ours is very unique and this is such a bizarre case and it's such a crazy thing that happened and tragedy all around. But there are families that do struggle with family members. And so we're trying to do, trying to find silver linings and trying to find some positive that has come out of this. Okay, see, I know you're Colt Malory Valley's brother. I didn't know that you wrote the book and hosted the podcast along with Rex Conner.

I want to tell you something, Adam, that I have not shared with anyone until this moment. This weekend, Sunday, marked the day that my fiance, Keith, was murdered. And even this many years later, it's still devastating. I think back on it. What did he suffer? What did he feel? What did he go through? Was it quick?

I think about what my life and his family's life would have been if he had not been murdered. And I thought I knew it all, Adam and Rex, about grieving and mourning and pain. And I couldn't imagine remarrying. For nearly 30 years, I was caught, caught in that grief. But now that I have children, the thought of something happening to one of my children, I literally feel sick.

And when I think of Lori Vallow sitting there in that courtroom saying that her children are happy and busy, I pray to God in heaven that's true. But that's no doing of Lori Vallow's. That would be doing of the Lord Almighty. Rex Conner, I find it highly offensive that she used her own children, much less our Holy Lord, Jesus Christ, as a reason she shouldn't go to jail.

Well, first of all, Nancy, it's hard to talk and keep it together after your story. That's tear jerky. I was in the courtroom, so was Nate, when she was making those statements, and that was so difficult to hear. I was so enraged. I've been trying to get past that and get to a place where I cannot be enraged, not pass on the rage. Everyone has plenty from that. Adam and I are trying to, first of all, trying to heal ourselves.

Right now, Rex, the anger at cult mom Lori Vallow, not only are the children dead, but the way Tylee was basically annihilated, disseminated. And then there are other victims as well. Just the rage, it feels like a stone on my chest. Yeah, I think for all of us. I don't know of too many exceptions to that, whether you're family members or not. Everyone that hears the story is offended. Everyone that heard her statement is offended. We can't, we don't even want to make sense of it. We just, it's so offensive. It's beyond the pale. So we're trying to get through it. We don't know how. We're having the help of a lot of people interacting in our podcast. Of course, we're going to therapy ourselves, but

we're glad to be a part of the effort to try to heal from this. And it's going to be an effort for a long, long time, maybe the rest of our lives. Guys, I want you to know the name of this again, Adam Cox and Rex Conner podcast, Tylee and JJ's Silver Linings, their book, Lori's Lies and Family Ties, Healing from the Tylee and JJ Tragedy. Rex, when did it finally sink in? The cult mom, Lori Vallow, had a hand in murdering her two children. Well, Adam and I, being of like mind, thought that from the very beginning when the children were missing because there is no other explanation, especially if you know both Tylee and JJ.

You know they weren't hidden out somewhere, and you know Tylee's not being quiet for as long as that drug out. So we suspected that, but your question was, when did it hit home? And my wife and I tried to stay away from the details for quite some time, just knowing that it happened. And, of course, they found the bodies. Even then, we didn't want the details. We stayed away pretty well until I went to court and unfortunately had the bad timing of choosing days

where they went through the details of their death in nauseating detail as they needed to do and i think that's when the um rage started or we were just so infuriated i was there with three of my daughters you know laurie's cousins who were close we're all close in our in our family and so um that's when we knew we need to you know we need to heal from this and and get through it the best we can. The disturbing details of how JJ was basically hermetically sealed, still wearing his little PJs. He was wearing when he was carted out of cult mom's apartment by her brother, Alex Cox, that night. And the way that Tyler was basically rendered, rendered like an animal at a slaughterhouse. He tried to avoid all that.

And then the day he does go to court that's what they're talking about nate eaton isn't it true that cult mom laurie valo asked not to be in court that day she didn't want to face the reality of what happened to jj entirely right uh the judge had warned the the gallery those of us in there that there was going to be some tough photos to watch he had warned the jurors about that and her attorneys made a motion asking if she could be dismissed for the day because it was going to be too hard for her to look at those images. And the judge denied that request. Lori stared at the floor the entire time. And it was a long time, Nancy. It was all afternoon and then several days after as well, not looking at those images. And the judge, when he sentenced her,

he referenced that. He said, you have not shown one iota of any remorse at all in any of this. You asked to be excused. You wanted the jurors to see those photos, but you didn't want to see them. And he did bring that up in his sentencing, basically rebuked her for not having any sort of remorse at all during any of this. He said that she fell down a rabbit hole of religion and she seems to still be stuck there. That's one of the quotes that the judge told her. The crime scene photos, very, very disturbing. Nate Eaton, could you describe what you saw in court? What Colt Malory Vallow refused to look at. Well, it will be something I'll never forget.

Unfortunately, you can't get those images out of your mind. What was left of Tylee was pieces of bone, a piece of a skull, a green bucket full of her flesh. Whatever the police were able to find as they sifted through dirt, then they put it together to see what was left of this beautiful girl. And then JJ was, as you mentioned, wrapped in plastic and duct tape. And then when they removed the plastic around his body, he was duct taped around his mouth, around his head, around his wrists, around his mouth, around his head, around his wrists, around his ankles. And, you

know, his face was decomposed. And it was just horrific. It's just awful. I remember looking at the jurors, and there was a woman, probably 35, who I later learned had children of her own. She was in tears. She couldn't even look at the screens in front of her to see these pictures. So it's photos you don't want to ever see again. And then we saw the autopsy photo of Tammy Daybell. And for Lori to say that Tammy is her good friend, the woman she was having an affair with her husband, her good friend, and to have that autopsy photo shown for the world, Tammy was a brand new grandma.

She was a woman full of life. It's just such a big difference in reality. You know, to Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining us, renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. You know, I'm thinking about Chad Daybell, which I haven't even touched on him. He's next. And the death penalty is still on the table for him. But I was just thinking about when Nate Eaton talked about Tammy Daybell. And hey, Rex Conner and Adam Cox, please jump in.

Same thing with you, Robin Dreek, Dr. Gallagher, Angela. So, the prophet. Was it husband? Nate, is he husband four or five? Number five, yeah. Five, okay. Husband number five, the prophet. four or five? Number five, yeah. Five, okay. Husband number five, the prophet, and I said that with air quotas.

He sent his wife, Tammy Daybell, on a very long, like a five, six-hour drive to go visit relatives. He told Tammy that he had had a premonition that she needed to see her family. And then he told somebody else he had a premonition that she would die in a car crash. I think he was hoping she would die in a car crash and he wouldn't have to kill her. But then, of course, she turns up in the bed after having slept with him all night, dead by asphyxiation. He refuses to have an autopsy done. She was later exhumed and the COD, cause of death, turns out to

be asphyxiation. I mean, what a coward. What a yellow-bellied coward to kill a lady in her sleep after your plan for her to have a car crash all on her own didn't work. You nancy i believe that what we're going to see is now laurie laurie daybell is one character okay she's got one set of issues going on with her and now we're going to have to investigate chad daybell because he is a he is a different creature he is a poc that's technical legal term you know nancy all of this of this that Lori did during the trial and everything, her arrogance, her vanity. Actually, she's very she she suffers from a lot of grandiosity. She literally thinks she's above the law. She thinks she's better than all of us.

She thinks that everything, especially her connection with God, her her her connection that she's always got going on with God. Nancy, she is the severest of narcissists. Okay. She is not mentally ill. She has got a personality disorder. She is the severest of a narcissist. Okay. Chad Daybell, I am not saying that he is mentally ill, but that man is evil.

He's an a-hole. He is an a-hole. I mean, a horse's ass like no other. He has had a... Nate Eaton, why am I not hearing your voice? This guy, I mean, his pickup line is, hey, hey, baby, you and I were married in a previous life. So let's get it on. I mean, this is who Chad Daybell is. Do you remember the text he sent Lori, Nancy, where he said, sadly, yes, I do. He finally figured out who he was. He felt like Harry Potter trapped under the stairs of his aunt and uncle. And when he was able to get out and see Laurie, he felt free. And then he had to return back to being trapped underneath the stairwell.

He's telling Laurie this as his wife is alive, Tammy, as they're planning how she will leave this earth saying, you know, saying these things. And then the romance novel that he texted her. So it will be interesting to see what happens with Chad. You call that a romance novel? All it is, it's about them having sex. Yeah, he called it that. And remember with him, death penalty is on the table for him. It was not for Lori, but for him it is.

Okay. You know what, Nate Eaton? I want you to hear this. Guys, listen to our cut 462. This is called Mama Lori Vallow. Wait for it. Get ready. If you're sitting down, you may need to lay down. Listen. The first time JJ visited me after he passed away, he put his arm around me and he said to me, you didn't do anything wrong, Mom. I love you and I know you loved me every minute of my life. She didn't finish that sentence until you murdered me and my sister.

Okay, Robin Dreek is with us. Behavioral expert, former FBI special agent, chief of FBI counterintelligent behavioral analysis program and author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction. You can find him at peopleformula.com. Okay, Robin Drake, you must have been chomping at the bit. You're the behavioral analysis expert. Jump in.

Yeah, she is just, as everyone's been saying, this is the biggest piece of work I've ever seen in my life. It's going to be really fascinating, and that is in order for us to heal we got to get like all of her there's no justification for her actions there's nothing we're going to ever hear from her that's going to make people feel better because like we've seen there's no remorse there will never be remorse i'm very curious is the impact she's going to have in her life behind bars as well. Boy, she's weaving a web.

She totally believes everything she's doing and I'm really curious. We haven't talked about it yet. I'm curious about her impact on her lawyer. The lawyer's statement that he made was either, it was either her statement or he believes it. And it's really this, she is just a path of destruction and for the healing that the family is looking for and thanks them for being on it. We just got to let go of this. This one's just too nuts and too crazy. We're going to surround ourselves with a good, healthy relationships, move away from this because no good will come of her. Yeah, good question. What about the lawyer's comment, her defense lawyer. That was an interesting statement. He talked about how he hopes people will get the message of love and hope and healing and peace following this sentence

that we can all move forward and that Lori is really about love. I've been in other courtrooms with this defense attorney. I've never heard an argument like this from him. I do believe that Lori heavily influenced what he had to say. You know, there was discussion that they were going to use a mental illness defense, that that was going to come up in the sentencing. It never did through all of the trial. And Lori Debo was very actively involved in the defense team. So as the previous guest mentioned, I believe that she had heavy influence on that closing argument, that closing statement.

Well, maybe one of the reasons they did not bring up mental defect is because A, that jurisdiction doesn't have the insanity defense and B, she, Lori Vallow, would not submit to an analysis, a personality, psychological or psychiatric analysis as part of her PSI, precedence investigation. She would not cooperate. So you couldn't put any evidence forward that she has any type of mental defect. And being a killer and pure out evil is not a mental defect. Adam Cox is joining me. This is Lori Vallow's brother, along with Rex Conner, her uncle, their host of Tylee and JJ's Silver Linings podcast, and author of Lori's Lies and Family Ties, Healing from the Tylee and JJ Tragedy. Adam Cox, you said that she had only begun acting this particular way recently.

And I assume you mean since she began her romance, as it would be called by some, with Chad Daybell. Yeah, I don't think any of us, I've never met Chad Daybell. I've never talked to him, don't know anything about him. Nobody in our family knew anything about Lori being with Chad. But even before she met Chad, Lori started going down a rabbit hole of reading books about near-death experiences. And then she started, you know, I think in her mind, she wanted to be special or she wanted to feel special, like some of these people that wrote books about their near-death experiences. So when she said that in court about a near-death experience of when she was having Tylee, I've never heard her say that before. It was out of left field, which led me to believe that these near-death experiences, reading these books, went her down a rabbit hole of she wanted

to be special spiritually. And then her jumping on the Julie Rowe bandwagon and listening to her podcast and saying, oh, me and Julie Rowe were kindled sisters and we knew each other in the spirit world and I'm going to defend her and I'm going to be Julie Rowe's friend. And then I think that's how she met Chad. So with all those things, all those people want to predict the end of the world. They want to be special. They want to have these spiritual experiences. i feel like lori was already headed under direction but once she met chad and chad's you know in his computers you know there's light spirits you're number four dark spirit um she he said that charles was a guy named

ned and he was living in charles's body and was already dead. Like Lori and Alex believed everything Chad said. So I don't know how you could believe. I don't know how anybody in their right mind could believe anything that that's crazy. Adam Cox, Lori Vallow's brother. Let me ask you a few quick yes, no questions. Adam, isn't it true that when Lori Vallow was asked, where are your children? She lied and said they were visiting a relative. Isn't that true? Yes.

Okay. And isn't it true that at that time they were already dead? The children were dead. Isn't that true? Yes. Isn't it true that when police came to her home, I believe it was in Rexburg, came to her home and asked her where are the children, the very next day they went back and she had cleared out, moving all of her possessions and skedaddling, fleeing the jurisdiction. Isn't that true? Yes.

Okay, another quick question. Isn't it true, Adam Cox, that before Tammy Daybell was murdered in her sleep, that cult mom Lori Vallow went onto Amazon and researched beach, B-E-A-C-H, wedding dress? Isn't that true? Yes. And then miraculously, quite the coincidence, just weeks later, Tammy Daybell was dead. And Lori Vallow had a beach wedding wearing the dress she ordered on Amazon before Tammy Daybell was killed. That was convenient because cult mom married Tammy Daybell's husband, Chad Daybell. Isn't that true?

Yes, it is. Okay. Wouldn't all that suggest to you that she could plan very cold-heartedly, very calculated, what was happening? Her obfuscation, her cover-up, her lies, she planned it. It's very clear. Yes. Is it not? Yeah.

I agree with that. Okay. That said, Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, I would submit and strongly argue, cult mom, Lori Vallow, she's not crazy. She's crazy like a fox. Yes, she is. Now, she's a narcissist, Nancy. You can have a personality disorder and not be considered crazy. Well, all that a narcissist, Nancy. You can have a personality disorder and not be considered crazy. Well, all a narcissist means is it's named after Narcissus, the Greek mythological figure that fell in love with his own reflection. That's right. And I believe fell into the water and died.

Yeah. Staring at himself. No. So that's not crazy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, Dr. Tim Gallagher is with us, medical examiner for the state of Florida. You can find him at PathCareMed.com. Lecturer at University of Florida Medical You can find him at pathcaremed.com. Lecturer, University of Florida Medical School in Forensic Medicine and the founder and creator of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. I would be in complete heaven there.

Dr. Gallagher, all of this talk about narcissism and her crazy, wacko religious beliefs, that's a cover for murder. These children were buried in Chad Daybell's pet cemetery. Tylee was horribly rendered, cut up, burned up. There's nothing left of her but a few bone remains in a bucket of flesh. How difficult is it, Dr. Gallagher, to dismember someone and render them, this teen girl, like she's an animal at a slaughterhouse. And cult mom Lori Vallow stood by knowing that was happening. Well, it's extremely difficult to dismember somebody, Nancy.

If you think about the average person, each leg must weigh 30, 40 pounds. The torso may be 75 pounds or so. You know, so it's very physical. It's a very physical demand, you know, to actually dismember somebody. Now, to burn somebody and to get them down to a point where they're unrecognizable, you know, takes an extremely long time. We're talking 8, 10, 12 hours burning at a very high temperature, a temperature higher than most wood can attain most most of the crematoriums use a butane or gas type of fire because regular wood or coal cannot even get that high so it would take a large degree of preparation a large degree of material and a large degree of strength to dismember somebody and to burn them into an unrecognizable state.

I don't think that one person can do that on their own. Rex Conner joining me, Lori Vallow's uncle, host of Tylee and JJ's Silver Linings podcast, along with Adam Cox. When you think that Lori Vallow sat by while that was happening to Tylee, the dismemberment, the burning of her human flesh, so there's nothing left but singed fat. That's the truth. Do I like saying it? No, it tastes like poison in my mouth, like dirt. But that's the truth.

And when those two were on the phone, when Daybell and she talked on the phone during the police search, she was so calm. She's like, he says, cops are here searching the place. And she doesn't say, why are the cops at your place? What's going on? She says uh have they found anything like she knows something's there to find she stood by according to this jury and let this happen to tyler yes and thank you for that graphic detail but um she of all the titles have been bantied about and i respect everyone's professional perspective and putting the right title on her condition. The title that fits best for me that I stick with is She's Evil. This was an act of evil, regardless of whatever psychology was involved,

whatever her background is, whatever influenced it. It's old-fashioned evil. And I don't know of a better way to describe it. You know, Rex, I'm so glad you said that. Because in my line of business, you know, journalists, as they call themselves, they don't like to talk about evil. They like to talk about forensics and psychology and psychiatry, completely ignoring the fact that there is evil in this world. To Nate Eaton, News Director, EastIdahoNews.com. I want to talk about Chad Daybell for one minute. The death penalty is

still on the table for him. Now, some juries may have a problem giving him the death penalty when she, cult mom Lori Vallow, did not get the death penalty since they essentially did the same thing. But in my mind, here is the difference. You heard Adam Cox state, and I believe correctly, that cult mom Lori Vallow had a personality change. And this occurred, according to me, after she got in with Chad Daybell, the so-called prophet. He was like a Svengali over her. That does not absolve her of guilt. But I'd also like to point out that the change in her demeanor,

coupled with the fact that I don't believe she had the mental wherewithal to orchestrate this whole thing. He is the master manipulator. What do you think about that? And when is his trial? Will she be a witness? And what about her other charges in Arizona? Yeah, this case is far from over. Chad goes before a jury in April of 2024. The one difference between his and Lori's trial is he's facing a first degree murder charge for Tammy. Lori was only facing the conspiracy for that murder. The prosecutors obviously feel they have more on Chad's involvement with his wife. Nate Eaton, is he charged in the alternative with conspiracy to commit murder of Tammy Daybell? He is. He's charged with bulls.

So there is an additional charge. So there will be more evidence that comes in his case. As for Lori, she's facing two charges still in Arizona. Maricopa County has said they plan to extradite her as soon as they can. That's for conspiracy to commit murder on her fourth husband, Charles, and conspiracy to commit murder on her former nephew, Charles, and conspiracy to commit murder on her former nephew, Brandon, who was shot at on his way home from the gym. Fortunately, he survived. So her legal troubles are far from over. As for whether a jury would give him death over her,

I think it would all depend on what type of evidence they present. I mean, if they're going to show those autopsy photos again of those children, they're going to talk more about Tammy's death. And it could go either way unless he decides to suddenly change his plea now that he sees that his wife is going away for life. Well, I think the key to that prosecution is going to be Tammy Daybell's death. He was asleep with her. She dies in the night through asphyxiation and he refuses an autopsy. Then a few weeks later, he marries cult mom Lori Vallow. They had already picked out his outfit and her outfit, the bride and the groom, before Tammy died.

So they're going to be arguing not only do the children end up dead in his pet cemetery, but he killed Tammy Daybell, and that may be the key right there to his death penalty sentence. The other charges that cult mom Lori Vallow is facing regarding Charles Vallow who was shot dead by Alex Cox while she's standing right there egging him on and the conspiracy to murder the ex-husband of her niece his name is Brandon Boudreaux. Are either of those flat out murder charges? Well, it would only relate to Valo.

Or is it are they both conspiracy to commit murder? And if they are conspiracy to commit murders, can he get can she get the death penalty on conspiracy? As of now, they're both conspiracy. Now, they could add additional charges. The cases are sealed, but that's how prosecutors have announced. And no, they would need to have first degree with aggravating factors to give the death penalty. charges the cases are sealed but that's how prosecutors have announced and know and they would need to have first degree with aggravating factors to give the death penalty but the case from what we're told it's far from over in arizona so those additional charges could come

and uh we'll see if laurie fights lightning around isn't it true nate eaton, that she, cult mom Lori Vallow, lured Charles Vallow to that location? And Charles Vallow was gunned down dead in front of the children. He was picking up JJ, yeah, to the house. And he was shot to death. And that's when Lori then took JJ to school and stopped at Burger King. Okay, guys, we wait as justice unfolds for not only cult mom Lori Vallow, but husband number five, so-called prophet Chad Daybell as well. May justice be served. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.