Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CULT MOM LORI VALLOW MURDERS 4, BLAMES “MEDIA, SAYS DEAD CHILDREN “VISIT” HER

Episode Date: July 5, 2025

In less than seven hours of deliberations, twelve Idaho jurors found Lori Vallow guilty of killing her two children and her current husband’s then-wife.    Vallow then faced charges of conspiring to kill Brandon Boudreaux, her niece's ex-husband.  It took a jury less then 30 minutes to convict her in that trial. It was Vallow's third criminal trial in less than three years.   Vallow has been convicted in the deaths of her children, Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow, and Tammy Daybell, her current husband, Chad Daybell’s, first wife, as well as her former husband Charles. He was killed the morning of July 11. Charles Vallow goes to Lori’s rental home in Chandler, Arizona, to pick up JJ for school.  Alex Cox, Lori’s brother, is also there. Within an hour, Vallow is lying in a pool of blood, shot by Alex Cox. Cox claims self-defense and is not charged. East Idaho News Reporter Nate Eaton has been following the case since JJ and Tylee went missing, and interviews Lori Vallow behind bars.      Watch Nate Eaton full interview at eastidahonews.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cult Mom, Lori Thalo. Now that she's not on cross examination, she opens up behind bars and tells, how should I say this, her truth. In other words, her crazy story. She's spinning out, but oh no, no, not to me.

To Nate Eaton from eastidahonees.com. Nate had the, I guess, opportunity, would be a way to put it, to sit down with cult mom, Lori Vallow, behind bars. Refresher, cult mom mom Lori Vallow behind bars, refresher cult mom Lori Vallow, the devil's henchperson. Her two children found murdered, buried in the backyard of her, let's see, was it the fourth or the fifth husband? I think the fifth husband, the prophet, Chad Daybell, both doomsday prophets. Of course, she's finding everybody to blame, but herself. And I believe she refers to you, Nate Eaton, as Judas.

Does she not? She does. She said at one point she thought I was Judas. Okay, let's kick it off. Lori Vallow being escorted into the interview room. Now, she's not cuffed, which would have given me pause for concern, but that said, listen to Colt Mom Lori Vallow being ushered into the interview room. Hi, Lori. Hi. How are you?

Good. You ready? Yeah. I already knew my people here. Oh, okay. Hi. Good to see you. Hey, such a pleasure.

Have a seat. Long time coming, huh? It has been. Happy birthday. Oh, thank you. Yes. Happy birthday. My rear end.

Are you serious? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. Happy birthday. Oh, thank you. Yes. Happy birthday. My rear end. Are you serious? Happy birthday. I had to. She murdered her two children and Chad Daybell's wife, Tammy. I mean, happy birthday. My rear end. Are you serious? I want to disarm her, Nancy. I wanted to disarm her. Oh, you let her bar down. I knew she came to triple a murderer. So I did say happy birthday, but then we immediately moved into questions about

Chad. I had been told she would be cuffed. So that was a surprise to me, Nancy. I had also been told that one of her defense attorneys or advisory attorneys would be in the room and that's who was in the room. But notice she came in with a packet of documents, files that she wanted to refer to, but she didn't mention them one time. She had a notebook there. She noticed she's wearing on her fourth finger, Nancy, the wedding ring finger. She's wearing a hairband to signify that she's still devoted to Chad Daybell. And then she comes to shake my hand that I had also been told we would not be able to touch. And then she was sitting down ready to go.

Well, obviously, you, I hate to just throw you into the stereotypical male gene pool. But hey, do you notice you're a lucky one? Because she got her hair done and put on her jailhouse makeup for you. She's totally all dolled up for you. All for you. Nice. She did. Well, you know, I don't know, we've I've waited five, six years to ask her some questions. And maybe she had some questions for me, as I'm sure we'll talk about throughout the interview. But

she did. We didn't give her hair and makeup, just to be clear, she did that herself. She used to be a hairdresser before she was incarcerated. So from what I understand, they take their clothing and get them wet, and then they're able to curl their hair with that. I'm not a hair expert, but she definitely was ready to come in and chat with me. Okay, hold on.

I just wanna follow up on what you just said. They take their what? Their clothing and what? Right. If you hold on to like a t-shirt or whatever you have and get it wet and then twist it up tight, you can put that in hair and then twist it and that's apparently how she is able to curl her hair. The things we all learn.

And then there's the pen makeup, which is homemade, penitentiary makeup. Okay. You just heard Nate Eaton and his investigative glory sucking up to Cult Mom Lori Vallott. But I get it. Why start fighting with her at the beginning? At least get some answers out of her before you alienate her. Let's take a listen to Nate Eaton getting the Behind Bars interview with cult mom Lori Vallow. Listen. You told me years ago Chad was the best man you've ever met. Chad is a very kind person, yes. Is that still true?

Yes. So besides his spirituality, what else attracts you to Chad? He's a wonderful person. Everyone who knows him knows that. You've never met him, right? I haven't met him other than when we were in Hawaii. I'm saying you never met him, talked to him, interacted with him. No, no. Yeah, I'd like to hear that experience as well. This is going to be a far-ranging interview, Nate Eaton, as well. This is going to be a far ranging interview, Nate Eaton, because what I recall of you in Hawaii is seeing your hand chasing along with the microphone following Cult Mom and the prophet Chad Daybell. You know what? The things that are done in the name of Christ, it's painful. I am certainly no biblical scholar.

And the only way, if I do get into heaven, Nate, is because the Lord loves the sinner. Okay, I'm just putting it out there. But the things that have been done in some twisted and warped interpretation of what Christ said is just amazing. But you know what? I'm going to leave that up to Christ and God, whoever he, she is. That said, your hand was omnipresent in

Hawaii chasing down Colt Mom and the prophet Chad Daybell. But they would never answer your questions. You chased them like a Doberman, but they never answered you. Remember? Oh, I remember. I remember, Nancy. I was talking with you about it the very next day after that happened. And that's why I wanted to ask all these years. I did go on to ask her, why didn't you just tell me where the children were? Why didn't you just tell me? And she said that she was not ready to talk. Now I knew that Lori was going to take me down the rabbit hole of religion of God of Christ is what you were saying. And so that's why I wanted to get the spirituality questions concerning Chad out of the way. But notice, Nancy, when I said, what else

do you like about him? All she could say is he's a wonderful person. She didn't say he was handsome. She didn't say, you know, we like to play games together or go on adventures. That's it. That's the only quality she could say that she likes in Chad is that he's a wonderful person and that he's a kind person. Yeah, you know, that's interesting. I've met your beautiful wife and I know that you would have many, many things to say about her as to why you think she is so incredible. Same thing with my husband. You know, number one, he's an amazing father, right?

Of course, whenever I come home from being out of town, it looks like the bears have lived there. And I'm like, what happened? He goes, hey, they're alive. I'm like, yes, that much is true. But he's actually a great father. He's funny. He's even killed, which is really important for me. And he's super smart. But the funny part is the thing I like the most. I mean, I could just keep on going. But it's interesting that all she said was, he's a wonderful person.

What does that mean? Well, I don't know what she thinks of him now, because they haven't been able to communicate. And they haven't spoken and had a real conversation in five years since the morning that those bodies were found in his yard. And he called her terrified. And he said, they're searching the house.

And she said, what, the house? And he said, no, the property, as if she knew the police were going to find her children buried in the backyard. That's the last time they've had any sort of conversation, Nancy, and that was back in 2020. She insisted, and I don't know if you have, if you're gonna play this later, she insisted that both of them will be exonerated. I said, will that be before he's executed or after? She said before Nate. She was very snippy with that answer. And she promised, I said, we'll follow up every year on your birthday to see if that exoneration has happened. And she said, it

will not be 20 or 30 years. I can tell you that I will not be in prison for 20 or 30 years. So we'll see. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. You mentioned earlier how you asked her, hey, why don't you just tell me in Hawaii, when I was saying, hey, where are the children? Where are the children? And I'm about to play her answer about how she was so traumatized. The truth is she didn't answer because they were dead and buried.

Let's hear Nate Eaton question Cult Mom on the Hawaii, let me say bait and switch. Listen. Can we go back to Hawaii? When I first met you and Chad. And we didn't meet, you just put a microphone in my face. Okay. Now we've met. We have met, you're right. Why didn't you just you just put a microphone in my face. Okay, when I put a mic... Now we've met. We have met, you're right.

Why didn't you just tell me where the kids were? Because I was not ready to talk about it at all at that point. I was just not ready. It was very traumatic and I was not ready for any of that. Are you ready to talk now? I have talked about it already, yeah. Okay, she wasn't ready to talk about her children. I mean,

I'm certainly no go-by, but if anybody even says children or daughter or son or twin, I'm like all over it. In fact, I have to make myself stop talking about them because really probably nobody else cares. Obviously not as much as I do. So they don't want to hear all that. To say she was too traumatized to talk about it. Okay, what is her truth? That's total BS, right? So when people say I'm going to tell my truth, there's only one truth. Okay? It doesn't change ever. Facts can be added to it, but the truth doesn't change. So, when it's all said and done, what is her story about what happened to her children?

Let's say it out loud. J.J. and Tylee, they're dead. Tylee was burned down to nothing but some flesh and fat in a bucket, singed. That's what's left of her. JJ was more hermetically sealed like a mummy still wearing his little pajamas he had on. When she said her brother took him from her apartment. So what is her story about what happened to JJ and Tylee? Honestly, it's somewhat offensive, Nancy. She says that in so many words, putting the pieces together,

that Tylee accidentally killed JJ and then felt so bad about it that she then took her own life. And that Alex, her brother, then didn't want Laurie to be so traumatized so he took care of the bodies. Now besides being offensive to her daughter, blaming this all on her daughter, it doesn't make sense. The timeline doesn't make sense. JJ died first,

or excuse me, Tylee died first. Tylee disappeared first, two or three weeks before JJ. So if she died first, how did she then kill JJ? Laurie argued and said that's not the timeline. Well, that's the evidence. That's all what the evidence showed with cell phone pings and photographs and Alex Cox staying busy. So it doesn't make sense. I don't wanna say she's making it up as she goes because this is a series of events that she had relayed to people a few years ago, but she seems to become more and more entrenched

that this is what happened. As for the death of her fourth husband, Charles Vallow. Okay, question, Nate Eaton. For those just joining us, could you slowly explain again? And it has changed a little bit. For those just joining us, could you slowly explain again? And it has changed a little bit.

Her version of what really happened to JJ and Tylee. Tylee accidentally killed JJ, Lori believes or says. She then, Tylee then felt so bad about it, she took her own life. And then to protect Lori from all of this tragedy, her brother Alex disposed of the bodies and told Laurie they're in a safe place. And then Laurie learned about their conditions when she went to trial. She claimed she didn't know how bad the bodies were. I mean, again, it just is so incredibly offensive to blame your daughter who was killed, as

you described in such honest terms there. That is what she says happened. Now, how did Charles Vallow die? Well, she says it was self-defense and a family tragedy. How did Tammy Daybell die? Natural causes, she said, even though the coroner, who did originally say natural causes, came back, a medical examiner, and said no, she was asphyxiated. There was bruises on her arms, like she had been held

down. And they said that she, you know, died in her own bed. So it doesn't make sense, Nancy, but that's the story that Laurie's telling. Take a listen to more of Nate Eaton with cop mom Lori Vallard behind bars. But you still love him. Absolutely, yeah. And you've said you'll be exonerated and he will too. Absolutely, we will. Will that be before he's executed?

Yes, Nate, before he's executed. You're well aware, you know, I know that you are LDS as well as I am, right, and you're well aware that the three Nephites in 3rd Nephi 28 were given the death penalty seven times. They were arrested after Jesus personally translated them, okay? They were given, they were arrested, convicted, and given the death penalty seven times. And where are they today? I don't know. They're still wandering the earth.

They didn't get executed. They didn't get the death penalty. And there's 220 people in this country who have been on death row and have been exonerated and gone home. Okay, what is she talking about? I'll be honest with you, I don't know, Nancy. I don't know.

She says that she and I share a faith. I do not share be honest with you. I don't know, Nancy. I don't know. She says that that she and I share a faith. We don't I do not share that faith with her. I do not share those beliefs with her. I've never heard of what she's talking about. As you can tell, she is obsessed with religion. She's she was diagnosed by six or seven psychiatrists with religious delusion disorder that that she believes or at least says she believes, that her and Chad's are these gods and goddesses and that they have an assignment from God to gather. And at one point in the interview, she tried to, and we may get there, but she tried to tell me that I was comparable to the movie Evan Almighty, a reporter who turns into a politician who is then told by God to gather people and build an ark. So he builds an ark, kind of like Noah, he gathers the animal and sells. And Laurie tells me, you need to get on the boat, Nate. You need to get on the boat and that way I can teach you. So she sees herself as a god, a goddess, someone

who's designed to gather and get followers. Okay, she's convinced that Daybell, the prophet, will not be executed and that they will both be exonerated. She seems to think in the near future, but you know, Nate Eaton, I often use the saying, when you don't know a horse, look at her track record. She also said the end of the world was coming and that a certain number, 118,000 I believe it was people. 144,000. How many? 144,000. 144,000, thank you. Were the only ones that would go to eternity in heaven, of course

she was going to be one, and that she would be leading them to heaven. Now, hasn't that date come and gone? It was July 20th of 2020. That was the original date that Chad said. I asked her about that or about, you know, she, Nancy, I know on Good Authority that she repeatedly said during her trial in Idaho that the Lord would come before the end of her trial and free her. People have told me that in the know. And so I asked her about that and she said, I never set a date. We've never set a date. And then she said, the Lord's timing, and the Lord's timing one day is a thousand years. So when you say soon, it's relative. So the issue with Lori Valo Debel is that even if you believe she's telling

you a straight-out fact, you have she's telling you a straight out fact, you have to question it because a lot of times it is not a fact. So she denied that she ever gave a date, but we have court documents that say Chad Daybell and she were saying the world was going to end in July of 2020. You know who I think very oftenly, not us, but gets lost in the sauce and that's Tammy Daybell. And I think it's because we gravitate toward the children victims, right? But Tammy Daybell was brutally murdered, coldly murdered, in her sleep. What exactly did the medical examiner say

happened to Tammy Daybell? Well, the first, the coroner, who is an elected official and in Idaho, when you're a coroner, you don't have to have any training. I could run for coroner and be elected. And the coroner was brand new in her office and responded to the scene and Chad was upset. The children were crying. And so the coroner said, ruled it originally

as natural causes. Tammy died on a Tuesday or on a Saturday and she was buried. Funeral was Tuesday. I mean, he they and transported to another state to bury her. Chad was in a rush to get the funeral done even though family members were coming from out of town. And then three weeks later, you know, Nancy, her, Laurie and Chad are married in Hawaii. Then they exhumed Tammy's body after all of the children were reported missing and all of these things, you know, were coming up mysterious. And the medical examiner then changed the cause of death from natural causes to asphyxiation.

Of course, Lori was obsessed with the fact that it was originally ruled natural causes, and then once Lori and Chad were under investigation, suddenly they had to change it to get her on something, to get her and Chad arrest them on something. So she says it was natural causes, but that night that Tammy Daybell died, Alex Cox's phone was parked or pinned at a church right by Chad's house for an hour or so during the hour that they believe Tammy died. So it's quite possible Chad Daybell picked him up, took him to the house. They both killed her. It's a two person job. One person holds Tammy down, the other It's a two-person job. One person holds Tammy down. The other smothers her or asphyxiates her.

And then Alex Cox left the house and drove away, or at least his phone was on the move. It'd be great to ask Alex Cox all of these questions, but he died the day after Tammy Daybell was exhumed. I asked Lori if she and Chad had anything to do with his death, and she said no, it was a surprise to them. And that death was ruled a heart issue But there's a lot of questions. Yeah. Well, so is Tammy Daybell's Tammy Daybell's was rule natural causes, too

And you know what? I know you're not gonna like it and I don't like saying it but it's the truth That got screwed up and I'm speaking mildly Don't make excuses for the coroner, calling it natural causes. The coroner did not do his job. And that has fed in to Cult Mom Lori Vallow's theory that this was all a setup. That's on the coroner.

I don't care if he was new. I don't care. he was new. I don't care. There's no excuse. And it has caused a lot of problems. You know about the Ellen Greenberg case, right? The coroner changed his ruling from homicide to suicide. See how many problems that's caused and it's still going on now 14 years later

because of a bad COD cause of death ruling. So you know I don't have any tolerance for screwing up your job and causing a lot of pain and heartache for years to come and we're still hearing about it right now that screw up by the coroner that said Tammy Daybell was as healthy as a horse she just ran in a marathon for Pete's sake. And there's so many things that alluded to her death, like Chad Daybell being clairvoyant and having a vision that Tammy was going to die, that's BS.

It's just like O.J. Simpson and Scott Peterson being clairvoyant. No, they killed. They killed, he killed Nicole Brown, Simpson did, and Scott Peterson murdered Lacey Peterson. And she had, Daybell was not clairvoyant. He murdered Tammy Daybell. He even sent her on an hours and hours long trek to visit relatives and friends for the last time because he knew he was going to kill her.

It's total BS. Isn't it true, Nate Eaton, that while Tammy Daybell was still living before her untimely asphyxiation death that Cult Mom Lori Vallow went online and ordered her, Cult Moms, wedding dress, Chad Daybell's groomed and even got a ring online to marry Chad Daybell in Hawaii before Tammy was murdered and then shortly thereafter lo and behold Tammy's dead. Right. So she's clairvoyant too. And she.

They're all clairvoyant. She ordered it on her dead husband's Amazon account, Charles Vallow's Amazon account and had it shipped to Idaho where Lori was living. Don't forget, Nancy, that 10 days before Tammy died, she returned home from an evening out with some ladies, got out of the car and there was a gunman in her driveway pointing a large semi-automatic rifle at her. Tammy at the time thought it was a paintball gun because the person was firing and it was giving a whoosh noise and nothing came out. Tammy screamed, the gunman

ran away and then they ended up calling 911 and at the time this was in very rural Idaho, Nancy. I mean this is the middle of nowhere. Stuff like this does not happen. We learned during the trial that Alex Cox, or his phone at least, was stationed at a place near Tammy Daybell's home and that he had been to buy ammunition and been to a firing range and had all these weapons in his garage. And Tammy Daybell did not park in the place she normally parked. She parked in the other driveway. And so it's likely he had to run across the lawn as he was running that gun. There's pins inside that gun that got jostled, and thus it didn't cause it to fire. Had she parked where she normally parked, she could have

been shot to death in her driveway with the gunman being just feet away from her, but it didn't happen. So when that didn't happen, Chad Daybell, Alex Cox, Lori Vallow had to come up with another plan to get rid of Tammy Daybell. And 10 days later, as you mentioned, she was healthy. She'd been to Zumba classes. She had been moving heavy boxes of books around the school. She was a librarian.

Everything was fine. Everything was fine. And then she dies in her sleep. Here is a portion of Nate Eaton from eastidaho news.com's interview, the exclusive interview with cult mom, Lori Vallow, where she tries to defend the prophet, Chad Daybell, blaming her for the murders at trial.

Listen. So you think Chad, they had to come up with a defense just to have one in court. You don't think he really believed or blamed all of this on you and Alex. Absolutely. And I know that for a fact because John Prior came and told me that prior to trial. He did. He said, this is going to be our defense.

He said, I'm going to blame you and Chad doesn't want me to and he wants you to know that. And this is the kind of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that nobody sees, that nobody knows what's going on. There's so much stuff going on that you wouldn't even believe all the things that go on. So is that supposed to be a good thing for Chad Daybell? Does that make him a better person? Because he, according to Cult Mom, lied in court and blamed her while secretly he didn't

want to because it wasn't true? Whatever happened to the truth? So does that somehow mollify her that her husband lied and blamed her in court but didn't want to? Well, that's I guess, though, I guess that brings her comfort. This is the woman that was so upset that things were not going her way that she became her own attorney in Arizona for two trials, her fourth husband and the attempted murder of her nephew, former nephew. And we saw how that turned out.

The jury came back on both of those cases in less than an hour having a verdict. So she lives in her own little world, Nancy. She does her own thing. And she's convinced herself that that is the truth, or at least that's what she is saying publicly, that her husband still loves her, still stands by her. She became so upset. I'll never forget when her attorneys during closing arguments in Idaho called Chad Daybell's books stupid to the jury. They said she got caught up in a guy who wrote

a bunch of stupid books. Lori became so upset she started to cry. She refused to talk to her attorney. She said, how dare you call my husband's books stupid? Wouldn't even look at the attorney. And when they finally threw a little bit of shade at Chad, they finally went after him just a tiny bit. She was not happy with that. Yet in Chad's trial, they threw her and Alex under the bus. In what way? Didn't matter because they were guilty on all counts. They said that Chad got caught up with Lori, that she was the instigator in this, that Alex did all the dirty work, and that Chad just was living his life and had an affair with a woman and he didn't know these people were dying and Tammy died naturally. Tammy just, you know, may have had a heart issue

or may have never been to the doctor. I mean, all sorts of defenses that at the end of the day didn't matter because the jury came back with a verdict. ["The Daily Show Theme"] Crime stories with Nancy Grace. NAMES. CRIME STORIES WITH NANCY GRACE. Nate Eaton, you do know that asphyxiation, in my opinion, is one of the easiest CODs to prove. The easiest.

You will have burst patechia in the eyeballs where the blood is cut off from here up and the vessels explode in the eyes. You'll have sometimes bruising or reddening around the mouth. There's very often marks on the throat. It's really easy in most cases to determine if someone has been asphyxiated, suffocated. And there's many modes of asphyxiation. It can be a ligature or manual strangulation. It could be suffocation by a pillow, for instance. I had one case where a woman had one of those transparent laundry bags that they put over your clothes

at the dry cleaner, put over her head, and she was asphyxiated that way. How do I know that? Because tiny particles of the plastic bag were still up in her nose and on her mouth where she tried to breathe through it. So you can be asphyxiated in many ways, but the telltale signs are always there. So there's really no question in my mind about how Tammy Daybell was murdered. Speaking of his, as the lawyer said, stupid books, they're all freaky, one foot in the grave, martial law, Doug's dilemma, escape to Zion, the keys of the kingdom, reclaiming liberty, the renewed earth. What happened to the earth?

Was it destroyed? Evading Babylon, the rise of Zion, days of fury, the great gathering. I guess that's the 144,000, the exclusive ones that get to go to heaven. You know, that's a completely different story than I heard in the New Testament. Of course, again, I'm no biblical scholar, but I got hope for the New Testament that even losers like me and Paul, aka Saul, and the disciples who were just basically day laborers, if they're going to get to go, why do you have to be one of the 144,000 elite. I mean, I don't get it, but his books are way out there. Yeah, he wasn't a best selling author, Nancy. They said in court that at most he was making

maybe $30,000 a year from selling these books. I asked Lori, how did you go to Hawaii and stay in this million dollar condo, these million dollar condo complexes, very beautiful gated community. Who paid for that? And she said, Chad Daybell paid for it. I said, Chad Daybell made $30,000 a year. And the only way that he could pay for it was Tammy Daybell's life insurance money. And the day after Tammy died on a Saturday, the Monday, the first thing, he's at the school district asking on his wife's life insuranc

they had upped to the max earlier and he was able t from her life insurance p make sense. Laurie Daybell Tammy were friends and tha it that Tammy comes and v and that you know all is well. Tammy you mean dead Tammy visits her in jail? Dead Tammy yeah comes and sees her that JJ and Tylee visit her daily. That they're healthy and fine and that you know

they're okay with what she's done and they have no issue with her. That it's just us on the outside that don't really see. What she's done? So they say that she did something? Well, I guess what she says that she didn't do anything, but what's happened with her? The fact that she's in jail and all of that. She says that they're fine with it, that they love her. Now here is Colt Mulmoy Vallow talking about a million dollar expert witness. We got this expert, we paid him a million dollars to say the opposite of whatever your experts gonna say. Mike what do you mean they paid him the state paid an expert a million dollars retainer to say whatever the opposite of what our state. In Arizona or Idaho? In Idaho. What our

witness is going to say and the attorneys told me this and I'm like are you kidding? Like you didn't have any witnesses. We did. Yeah, in the buildup we did. Again, Nancy, there's another thing that doesn't make sense. But that million dollar witness didn't come to trial. No, no, no, no, no, no. And there was no there was never a million dollar witness on a retainer. The prosecution had some mental health experts who know about religious delusions on standby in case Lori used that as a defense, but it wasn't going to be a million dollars. This was in response to a question I asked as to why didn't you put on a defense?

She said that if she would have, the state had set this all up, that there was this narrative and that they would have paid people to testify against testify against her again it doesn't make sense and so I said well you didn't call any witnesses at any of your trials we never heard from one witness she never took the stand lori never did even when she was representing herself and I think it's because lori likes to be in control lori didn't does not want to cede control to anybody. And even in this interview, Nancy repeatedly, she tried to talk over me. She dodged the question. You can see when she walked in, she shook my hand with both hands, you know, a power handshake. And then she sat down and I wished her happy birthday and immediately moved to chat and

she pivoted back to, yeah, it is my birthday. How old do you think I am? All the ladies in here think I'm 25, but I'm really, you know, she tries to control everything. Had she taken the stand, she would not have been in control when the prosecution asked her questions, so she never did. So this is a way for her to kind of share her version of events, and I don't know if we're going to get there, Nancy, but she says she's every day, she sits in her cell

writing books of scripture that will one day be public and we will all read them as scripture. I'll send you a copy. Okay, actually I would love to read what she says is the truth. Of course it will all be lies and speaking of a scapegoat, she has blamed her own daughter Tylee for Tylee's death and JJ's death. She blames natural causes and a conspiracy cover-up for Tammy Daybell's murder. But now she's blaming not only the judicial system, but the media. And I guess that's you, Nate. Listen. You said that this has all been a family tragedy. Yes. And it has been a huge tragedy.

Absolutely. All of this. Four juries have said you and Chad and Alex caused the tragedy. Yeah. That's the judicial system. But how do you argue with that if all of this evidence came out that showed, you know, that you, Chad? The only evidence that ever came out is the evidence state wanted to put forth.

Well, they manipulate the evidence to make it look however they want and guess who helps them? The media help. How do you feel knowing it's all your fault? I guess it's your fault she was convicted and your fault that at least three people, excuse me, four people are dead. Well, she well after she was arrested in Hawaii, I know on good authority, she, they transferred her back to Idaho on a plane. She was on the very back row of the plane. She was handcuffed. They had her in normal clothes so that she wouldn't stick out. She was surrounded by officers who were in normal clothes, looked like an average person.

But people were quickly spread on the plane that Lori Valadebel was on that flight. Remember, her kids were still missing. We didn't know anything that we know now, just that her kids were missing and she wasn't talking. People started to walk toward the back of the plane with their phones and kind of take photos of her. And Lori said to one of the officers, all of this is because of Nate Eaton. Because of that moment in Hawaii when I shoved that microphone in her face, this has been a narrative she has, she talks about narratives. This has been her narrative that she has said that it's the media's fault yet yet she has communicated with me for five years, was willing to sit down to do a jail house interview. So it's like she says she hates the media Nancy but every time she sees a camera

she has hair and makeup on and turns and smiles and seems to enjoy it. Speaking of the narrative, here's her, as you call it, narrative, I call it a lie about what happened to Tylee and JJ. What's false about the narrative? Oh my gosh, everything. Your children were found dead in Chad's backyard. That's not wrong.

Tylee was chopped up and burned. That's not wrong. That's not wrong. That's all mixed up. I saw photos of JJ wrapped in plastic and duct tape. That wasn't wrong. Okay, I understand what you're saying of those facts. Those facts in and of themselves are wrapped around a whole lot of untruth. Okay, that sounds like BS because she never does say what is quote wrong with those facts, but there's more about the narrative. Listen. If Tylee killed JJ and then felt bad and committed suicide, how did she die first?

She didn't. That's not part of their whole fake narrative. That's part of everything that they were doing. So I don't really want to get into all of those details with you because you obviously are very set in your mind. I'm not here to change people's minds. I want you to change my mind. I'd love to hear any evidence or facts you have that might make me think, you know what,

they have it wrong, but I haven't heard anything otherwise. That's because you've been pushing this narrative for five and a half years. Are you not telling me that your mind is not set on what it is already? That is a story that is old as time. When you confront someone with their lies, they can't answer. That's why people don't take the stand. Did you see her becoming combative and defensive? If there was an innocent explanation, there's no innocent explanation, but if there was an explanation that exonerated her and or Daybell, she would say, look, this is what happened, right? But she can't because what

happened is they murdered two children. They murdered a woman in her sleep and they shot down an unarmed man. And I am not convinced that Joseph Ryan died of natural causes. His body was already decomposing when he was found dead and then he was immediately cremated at her insistence. I'm not convinced Ryan died of a natural death, but that's another can of worms.

Describe what you were thinking when she was refusing to give an answer. Well, I wasn't, to be honest, expecting her to be honest with me, it would have been shocking if she said, you're right, this is what happened. Or even as you said, give some sort of sentence idea that might plausibly make sense, but it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make any sense. And she has convinced herself that it's not making sense and that she is the one that knows better than everybody.

What's interesting, Nancy, is during this interview, we told her we would air it unedited. We weren't gonna take any breaks and it was 40 minutes. She wanted two hours. She wanted one hour on one day and one hour the next. The jail said you get 40 minutes. She said, well, we'll try to get it all in. She had a list of items she wanted to talk about.

So we're about 15 minutes into the interview and her paralegal arrived late. And so we did need to pause while the paralegal came in the room and got situated, but we kept our cameras rolling and we were in the middle of a heated exchange when I said, do we need to pause for a moment? And the paralegal came in and Laurie instantly dropped her guard and asked if I had a good time in Hawaii when I saw her. And I said, why did we didn't even go on the beach? She goes, why?

I said, we were too busy chasing you. She goes, I went to the beach, you chased me on the beach. It was as if she didn't care. And she saw this more as a show. And then once her paralegal was situated and ready, the conversation went from here to here again. She jumped right back into that heated moment. So I don't know if it's acting,

I don't know if it's her putting on a show, I don't know if it's really her convictions deep down, but she's one that I won't forget, obviously. Now we hear Colt Mom Lori Vallow comparing herself to biblical heroes. Listen. So in 2017, I was told by the Lord that I was going to become like Job and lose everything. Will I do this job if I lose everything? Really? Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end, didn't Job get everything

and more given to him by the Lord? Isn't that the way that turned out? Yeah. Well, I think that's what Lori thinks might be happening, or at least that's what she says will happen. This is another thing that this happened in 2017, she says. Her family members, her friends, none of them recall her ever telling anybody this, that this was going to happen. She told me during the interview that she died during childbirth. She, her family and friends say, we've never heard that story.

You would think if someone died delivering a baby, Nancy, people would know about it. And then came back to life, everybody would know. It was a very traumatic childbirth, you know, near fatal. She never told anybody about this, but now she's starting to tell these stories that she says happened to her and their news to many people. And more. Listen. Nobody was asking me what's happening. Nobody asked me what's happening. I tried to. Well, would you have listened then? You have to.

Absolutely. I wish you and she... You need to be on the boat, Nate. Are you on the boat yet? Because when you're on the boat, Nate, I am going to be happy to share all this stuff with you because miracles are on the way. Miracles are on the way. And when you're on Miracles are on the way and when you're on the boat that's why I sent you that that last message. The video. Well I sent you the last message saying when you're on the boat you'll be ready. Nate are you on the boat? What boat? This is the Noah's Ark. Well comparable to Noah's Ark Nancy. Again she thinks that that movie Evan Almighty the reporter who becomes Noah, that I'm somehow

that guy and that I need to get on the boat, the Ark, because the world's going to end. And once I'm on the boat, Laurie can teach me of her ways. Once we shared this interview, I had many people who wrote me and said, Nate, do not get on that boat. Do not go anywhere near that boat. So, Nancy, if you see me building an ark, please come and save me. Please don't get on the boat.

Do not get on the boat. You know how to swim, right? Swim first. Okay. There's more. And this is a really interesting moment in your interview with Cult Mom, Lori Vallow. Listen. You say Jesus is your friend.

Absolutely. Does He support cheating on your spouse? We weren't cheating. Does He support killing your husband? I didn't kill anybody ever. Killing your kids? I didn't kill anybody. Killing your boyfriend's wife?

Okay. Was I in Hawaii when Tammy died? How did I kill her? Are you going to explain that to the world now? Man, if she's crazy, she's crazy like a fox. She knows those facts backwards and forwards and can whip them out in her defense. But you did get her very discombobulated when you accused her of cheating and how would Christ feel about that. I'm not going to even bring up the woman at the well to you right now.

But that said, that really put a stick up her rear end. Yeah, she says we weren't cheating. In fact, she says that she was with Tammy and Chad a few times together, all three of them. Yet, close friends have told me that Tammy and Laurie never met. So again, we have a false comparison here. But Laurie said she didn't kill anyone, didn't cheat. I mean, you could list the Ten Commandments, Nancy, and I think Laurie's broken most of them. If she's true to her faith, you go down that list and most of them have been broken by her. Again, I'm not one to

judge. Like you said, you're not judging, but she... Oh, I'm totally judging. I don't have a leg to stand on, of course, but I am totally. She killed them. I know she killed them, the children. She had a hand in that and a hand in the murder of Tammy Daybell and a hand in the matter of Vallow, her husband, Charles Vallow. Yeah, I'm calling it. Right. And it came out during trial, Nancy, that Lori would tell her friends, she would take her hand if something were to happen, and she'd say, doesn't count for me, doesn't apply to me, having an affair. Why don't you just divorce Charles and marry Chad? Nope, doesn't count for me. As if she had already been exalted.

She was living this higher law, this bigger purpose. And so that's how everything could be justified. That doesn't count for her. It counts for all of us, but not for her. Okay, Nate Eaton, could you explain something? What does this mean? Yeah, yeah, that's just something she would do. She would tap her hand or tap her counter and say, doesn't count for me. That was just one thing

she'd do, just tap twice. I don't know what it means, but there were her friends who testified that she would slap her hand and say, doesn't count for me. And there's more about her, called Mom Lori Vallow, using her children's money after they're dead. Listen. Using your kids' money while they're dead. Okay, all that is messed up too. That's all lies. How did you rent that unit in Hawaii? That's all lies. Chad rented it.

I didn't have any money. Until Tammy died. Chad rented it with his own money. Okay. Chad was an author and a publisher. It had his own company. So that's what I'm saying. He made $30,000 a year.'m saying. You're giving up facts that

you don't, you're giving up whatever the state put up. What is she saying? Did you see her look away when you confronted her? She was looking at her investigator who was sitting right here, the defense investigator who she repeatedly looked at. Now he was not prompting her. I think she just does that as a kind of a security type thing or for reassurance. But, but uh, no, no, no. People do that when they're lying or when they're trying to think of what to say. Like I'm looking at you right now. If he asked me a question and I don't like the truth, I go and I have to think up an answer. That's what she's doing. She's looking away from the question. Yeah, yeah, it's true.

And that was a question that she couldn't answer because Chad didn't have money. You know who supported that family? Tammy as a school librarian making $12 an hour. I don't remember the exact amount, but it was not a lot of money part-time. And Chad's writing these books that nobody's buying suddenly. Charles Vallow is shot and they think they're getting a million dollars. They didn't.

But then Tammy Daybell dies and they've got half a million dollars almost coming into them. And then they're getting money from Tylee and from JJ's death. She continued to collect on those things, on those monies, long after her kids had died. So money became a big part of this trial. She says that the state presented evidence, crafted a narrative, and that only their version of events went out. When I asked, why didn't you present a defense? Why didn't you present evidence? She couldn't answer.

Now you ask her about Chad Daybell as a prophet and their predictions of the end of time. Listen. When you were on trial in Idaho, didn't you say that Jesus was going to be back before the end of that trial? Okay, who said I said that? I'm asking you, did you say that? Absolutely not. I have never, Chad has never, we've never given a date or a time. The prophet... Where did July 20th come from? Somebody made that up and put it on there. I have never said it. Chad has never said it. We've never had a date. Yeah, somebody made it up alright. Her and Daybell, they made it up. Okay, there's more. Listen. There's always a Judas. And I almost used to think of you as the Judas. Was I on the dark list? No, but this is what I'm saying. There's a

Judas. People think that Judas is a villain. Judas is not a villain. You know what Judas was? Judas was a vessel. Judas was a vessel for God's plan to come to fruition. And he told me the other day, it's coming to full fruition. God did? Yes.

Okay. Judas is the villain. Okay. If he's forgiven, that's not my doing. But that said, how does it feel to be called Judas of all things, Judas? What was interesting is right after that, I said, was I on the dark list?

And she quickly said, no. To me, she acknowledged there was a list of dark and light, which she had previously denied. Her in chat had that list of who's light and who's had previously denied. Her and Chad had that list of who's light and who's dark. And if you are on the dark list, toward the bottom, you became a zombie and the way to get rid of zombies is to kill them. The only people that we know of who were zombies happened to be related to Chad and Lori and needed to be disposed of because they thought that there was a financial reason. But, you know, I,

she's Jobe, I'm Judas. All the zombies just happen to have life insurance policies. Right, right. Yeah. You know, I asked her when we wrapped up, do you have any regrets about all of this? And she paused and said, that's a good question. And in my mind, I was wondering, was she wondering in her mind, oh, I regret that we didn't hide it better, Was she wondering in her mind, oh, I regret that we didn't hide it better, that we didn't do this or this, or was she wondering, I regret that this all happened, period? I hate to say it, but I think it was the first way.

If she could redo it again, they would have been more careful with their cell phone evidence. They would have taken off the cloud, turned off their iCloud, things like that. I think those are the regrets she has rather than the fact that these beautiful people were killed. And more dragging God into it. Listen.

Why did you tell all this to the police? So why didn't you tell them all this when you were arrested? Explain this to them. You know, God told me to do this. Give your defense. Really? What happens to people when they say God tells them to do something? They lock them up. Well, I'm locked up. Nate Eaton, the exclusive interview with Caught Mom Lori Vallow from Behind Bars, when you walked out of that room, what were your thoughts? Oh, it was mentally exhausting. I'll tell you that. I had to wrap up. They gave me a wrap up. They said we need to finish. So I had 15 note cards there that I didn't get through at all.

But then again, Nancy, I wonder if I would have gotten much more from her. What you've played today is kind of how all of the conversation went. It was exhausting. It was interesting. It was one that I don't forget. I will say, I haven't heard from Laurie since the interview

So maybe she wasn't happy with how it turned out. Maybe her tablet broke I don't know, but we'll see if she contacts me in the future. Well, are you sorry? Do you want to hear from her? I don't know. I don't know if I'd interview her again. I think if I were to interview her again I would talk with the victims, Kay and Larry Woodcock, the victims of Tammy Daybell, their family members. I would ask them what questions they want me to ask her because she's never communicated with them. They haven't had a chance to talk to her.

And I would go to the jail with those questions. I would say, Kay Woodcock wants to know why you didn't just give JJ to her. Had they given JJ to Kay and Larry? We might not have known about any of this. Tammy Daybell would have been buried. It would have been natural causes. Charles Vallow would have been shot. Then Alex Cox died, the shooter. That case likely would have been closed. Tylee could have been reported as a runaway, as an adult, and they maybe never would have found her. And that Chad and Lori could have gone and lived their lives.

Now, how long until they run out of money and who becomes the next victim? That would have been the question. Last question, Nate Eaton. Did you detect any remorse at all from cult mom Lori Valle? No, nope, nope. Maybe remorse that she got caught, maybe a little bit of remorse

that she's in jail in this in Maricopa County in Arizona. She looks forward to coming back to Idaho to serving her prison sentence. She'll be sentenced later in July. She's preparing her statement that she plans to read. And if it's anything like the one she gave in Idaho, it will be, Jesus is my friend, Jesus loves me, things like that. And then they'll transfer her back to Idaho, where according to her, she'll be exonerated soon. But according to the rest of us, she'll die. She'll die behind bars and prison. We wait as justice unfolds. Nate Eaton, thank you so much for not just today, but for everything you did to help uncover

the truth about what happened to JJ and Tylee and Tammy and Charles Vallow. Thank you and good night, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.