Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CULT MOM LORI VALLOW: New Netflix Cult Mom Hit, Will Jurors Watch?

Episode Date: September 30, 2022

Questions are being raised about the impact of the new Netflix documentary, "Sins of Our Mother," on Lori Vallow's chances of a fair trial. Vallow's attorneys point to media coverage surrounding the case making it impossible for that to happen. To that point, Vallow's attorneys asked the judge to ban cameras from the courtroom, saying that the privilege had been abused by repeated "zooming in on Vallow Daybell's face" during a hearing. They raised the possibility of documents being scrutinized that way as well. Jim Archibald and John Thomas also claimed the cameras and microphones could potentially be used to overhear private conversations between the attorneys and client.   Seventh District Judge Steven Boyce has now ruled that cameras, both video and stills will no longer be allowed from the courtroom. Joining Nancy Grace Today: David Leroy - Attorney at Law (Boise, ID), Former Idaho Attorney General, Former Idaho Lieutenant Governor & Former Prosecutor (Ada County), DLeroy.com, Facebook.com/BoiseCriminalDefense, Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA, AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Rhasaan Orange - Trial Consultant, Wittech.com Nate Eaton - News Director, EastIdahoNews.com Facebook: "Nate Eaton - Reporter", Instagram: @n.eaton  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cult mom Lori Vallow. Will she ever go away? Sadly, the answer is no. We're stuck with her. Whether she's convicted or she's acquitted, God help us all, she's never going away. In the last hours, the bombshell claim that the murders of two of her children,

JJ and Tylee, could have been avoided. This, as a Netflix movie documentary swirls, will that documentary on Netflix make it impossible to strike a fair and impartial jury? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Netflix make it impossible to strike a fair and impartial jury. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Before we get too carried away on Lori Vallow, a.k.a. Cult Mom, and yes, I named her that, let's just don't forget that seven-year-old J.J. Vallow was murdered,

wrapped up, hermetically sealed with tape and plastic, and buried in her, I guess, was it her fourth husband, Jackie? The fourth husband's basically his backyard. And her daughter, 16-year-old Tylee, was murdered, dismembered, rendered down to practically nothing, as if she had never existed, and also

buried in Chad Daybell's backyard. Let's just keep that in mind as we talk about mommy, cult mom, Lori Vallow. Again, thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and SiriusXM 111. about mommy, cult mom, Lori Vallow. Again, thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation Series XM 111. Could the murders of these two children have been avoided?

I say yes. Take a listen to this. J.J. and his sister Tylee disappeared in September 2019 after their mother, Lori Vallow Daybell, moved them from Arizona to Idaho. The move came after Chandler police say Lori's brother shot and killed her then-husband Lori Vallow Daybell, moved them from Arizona to Idaho. The move came after Chandler police say Lori's brother shot and killed her then-husband Charles Vallow, who is JJ's adoptive father, in July 2019. And months before all of that, emails show that Charles shared concerns

about Lori's darkening religious beliefs with JJ's school leaders, noting he had to file an order of protection against his wife. In February 2019, the school told police they reported to child services to, quote, ensure we were doing our due diligence in protecting JJ. Let me understand, guys, you're hearing our friends at 12 News. Joining me right now, an incredible panel to make sense of what we know right now, but first to the news director of the eastidahonews.com, Nate Eaton. You can also find him on Facebook at Nate Eaton Reporter. Nate, thank you for being with us. Let me understand this.

Charles Vallow, who is JJ's adoptive dad, in July 2019, I've got to get my months straight. He shared concerns with JJ's school about cult mom Lori Vallow. The school knew there was a problem, right? Correct, yep. And what, if anything, did the school do? Well, the school was kind of tied because Lori was going to the school saying everything's fine. Okay, well, wait, wait. I'm sorry. My head is spinning around 360 degrees.

The school was tied. The school is supposed to be tied to the law, which says if you have reason to suspect a child is being neglected or abused, you, the teacher, the principal, are to report it to the state. You could explain to me, Nate Eaton, how the school was, in your words, tied? Well, the issue was that Lori and Charles at this time are going through this.

As you mentioned, Charles was raising all sorts of concerns about Lori's mental health and the claims that she said she was a goddess, that Jesus was returning, she was going to usher him in. Please try not to drag Christ into this. Okay, that's the last thing I need is him mad at me. I want to get back to why they didn't report it pronto. Or did they? I don't know why they didn't report it.

So that's a no. They did not report it. Yes. David Leroy, high-profile lawyer, joining me out of Boise, former Idaho Attorney General, former Lieutenant Governor, former prosecutor. You can find him at dleroy.com. David Leroy, that, I know you're just the messenger, Nate Eaton, but that is a bucket full of steaming hot BS. They had an alarm raised.

I'm sorry, Nancy. That's not correct. Nate has given you the right answer. The kinds of things that were reported to the schools simply didn't meet the standard kinds of profiles and tests for negligence or abuse in that jurisdiction. Explain, explain, explain. Why are you saying that? Because a lot of moms are weird, different, and odd. The religious beliefs get confused and problematic for CPS people to deal with.

Without some kind of physical or failure to thrive indication on these children. There was no negligence or abuse for CPS to react to. Okay. Did you say a lot of moms are weird, odd, and what was the other thing? Unusual. Okay. I plead guilty because I'm sure the people at the twin school think that about me, but I guarantee you one thing, David Leroy. When a parent calls the school and says, I'm worried about my children's safety. My wife is behaving bizarrely and they do nothing. I think a jury might disagree with you. Maybe you've been a politician for way too long because now the children are dead. I think you're assuming facts, not an evidence. You don't know what the parents said about the

other parent, the worst parent, but obviously he was legitimately concerned. But again, the school is looking for something that it can actually spell out to CPS is negligence or abuse. Did you just say arguing facts, not in evidence? Because that is an objection you make in a court of law. Look around. You're not in a court of law. Okay? We're talking about what really happened without a judge saying, no, that's hearsay.

That doesn't qualify. Nate Eaton, that's hearsay that doesn't qualify nate eaton do you have any idea what the complaint was that the dad lodged with the school what did he say was happening at home because maybe if they had listened and contacted cps child protective services as i believe they should have the children could be alive today but they're not they're dead and dismembered i don't know the specifics but what i do know is that after charles was shot laurie whoa after after after cult mom shoots charles valo who made the complaint to the school okay let me just let that sink in for a moment because you've got david leroy out

of boise claiming yeah we don't know there was anything wrong with her she shot him dead then she killed the children okay what nate eaton well her brother shoots him but laurie was there and she told laurie told several, according to witness statements, different stories about how Charles died. She told people at JJ's school that he died of a heart attack. She told other people that he died of suicide. She didn't have a straight story when in reality it was her brother who shot and killed him with JJ Vallow in the house, according to court documents. And then she took JJ, you might recall, she took him to school the day that his dad was shot and killed. But on the way, they stopped at Burger King.

They stopped at Walgreens for her to get a pair of flip-flops. She then returned to the house where her husband. Yeah, because her shoes were covered in blood, probably. You got to go get some flips. So, David Leroy, you're still standing by. No mistreatment of the children there at the crime, the murder scene, and then she takes him to school. I am the most eager CPS group in the world and the most diligent principal at the school have to have something specific that qualifies as negligence or

abuse reflected in the physical well-being or the mental well-being of those children, or there's nothing upon which to proceed. David Leroy, you do know that at the time, Vallow contacted the school to say he was worried about the children's welfare, that Colt Mom had already threatened to murder him. Sure. Okay, see, I have a problem with that, leaving the children in the home when Mommy's threatening murder. But you know what? That's just me.

Let's take a listen again to Erica Stapleton, 12 News. Other emails from the FBI in December 2019 indicate DCS had another report about the family. DCS confirms it received two communications about the Vallow family in 2019, but claims that neither resulted in an investigation because there was no showing of abuse or neglect. An attorney for DCS and a spokesperson declined to tell the I-Team how the agency came to these conclusions. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It sounds very much like the murders of JJ entirely could have been entirely avoided if the school and Child Protective Services had acted when they should have.

And notice at the end of what 12 News is saying, DCS refused to explain to the investigative team how the agency came to the conclusion that the children were not in danger. Nate Eaton, joining me, News Director at EastIdahoNews.com, could you explain why this is not the headline on every newspaper in that jurisdiction? I think back in the time when this story broke, it was examined. But Nancy, think about all of the other, looking back now, Charles Ellis went to the police. We have the body camera where he's raising these alerts saying my wife needs to be taken into custody. She needs a mental health exam.

She was taken into custody for a day. They questioned her and they released her saying that she was fine psychologically. So looking back now, there were several missteps that probably could have prevented all of this. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right about that. But what I'm talking about is not the body cam footage. I'm talking about the school because it's their duty to act if they think there's a danger to the child. The school, CPS, Child Protective Services, that's what I'm talking about. Dr. Angie Arnold, can you please

help me out here? Dr. Arnold, renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. I mean, how many times do we have to keep going over CPS not acting or school not acting and then the child ends up dead? But Nancy, that sure is putting a lot on the school if they don't have any evidence of anything. They got two complaints, Dr. Angie, two complaints. Shouldn't they at least call NCBS to investigate? At the least? Well, yeah, maybe they should have. Guys, I said at the beginning, keep in mind, children have been murdered and dismembered.

Joe Scott, do you remember Joe Scott Morgan with me? Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of the hit series Body Bags of Joe Scott Morgan. You can find that on iHeart and beyond. Joe Scott, how many times are we going to talk about this? CPS doesn't act here. They weren't even called in by the school and the children are dead. Same song, second verse, Nancy, for years and years and years. And the thing about it is, you know, even during my time at the corner in New Orleans and with the ME in Atlanta, we would see this repeated over and over and over again.

And it's not just isolated to this particular jurisdiction. It's nationwide. I mean, we can't remove the children from the home and save their lives if the school and CPS sits on their thumb and does absolutely nothing and then when they're asked hey why did you decide not to follow up and they refuse to answer i think that's very very telling i know that david leroy and apparently dr angela arnold disagree with me not only do we have the bombshell claim that the murders of JJ and Tyler could have absolutely been avoided. We're learning that now. But is the jury in jeopardy?

A jury trial for cult mom and her fourth husband, the prophet, as he calls himself, Chad Daybell, because of a Netflix documentary. Take a listen to this. The three-part documentary shows Lori Daybell as a beauty pageant contestant talking about her life as a wife and mom. I have a wonderful husband Joseph at home who is watching our two beautiful children, Colby, who's seven, and Tylee, who is one. Just weeks before the beauty pageant, she was a contestant on Wheel of Fortune. I want to go. Okay.

Gopher, Doc, Isaac, and Captain Stubing. Yeah! A Netflix documentary is hitting the airwaves prior to the jury selection. Nate Eaton, what's the name of it? Shins of Our Mother. Oh, boy. Well, it couldn't be a better title. Guys, let's take a listen now to part of that Netflix documentary.

Listen. How are you, bubba? I'm not good, mom. Are you sorry for me or Are you sorry for my siblings? I would have never thought you would have ever done something like this. What is it that you think that I've done? Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream. We did have a wonderful family before this happened.

Oh, hello. My mom has spent her whole life protecting us kids. Being a good mom is very important to me and a good wife. Honestly, Lori and Charles looked like they had the ideal marriage. But her beliefs had become a lot more extreme. After she met Chad Daybell, she changed. Guys, you are hearing a snippet of the widely anticipated Netflix documentary, Sins of the Mother.

I want you to hear one more, a little bit of information, more information on this. Take a listen to our friends in our cut 119 from KTVB. Could this documentary impact jury selection in this case? Well, ironically, jury selection was moved from eastern Idaho to Ada County to minimize the exposure and press and any kind of publicity that had attended the case. Dave Leroy is the former Idaho Attorney General, former Lieutenant Governor, and a defense lawyer. He says any kind of publicity has the potential to influence a person's judgment in terms of making a decision about a case should they be selected as a juror.

And with us right now, David Leroy, attorney at law in Boise, former Idaho Attorney General. David Leroy, explain. Well, Ada County is in a different local media market. Not everyone here has Netflix, and not everyone who has will watch this show. Lori's been out of the news for much more than in the news for the last year. And over here, some 318 miles on the interstate from where the crime took place, no one's driven by the burial scene. So I believe that Ada County, Idaho can present a fair

and objective trial with a jury that's relatively uninfluenced and unknowing about the case. And the judge seems to have pretty good command of his courtroom. So I think just as we did in a stunning international murder a hundred years ago, Ada County will do just fine in conducting a fair trial here. Isn't it true, David Leroy, that the standard the judge will put to the jury is not do you have Netflix or have you seen the documentary, but are you able to render a fair and impartial jury even if you have seen the news coverage? Absolutely, and remember the process of getting to that point with any individual juror will include, first of all, a panel of maybe 200 people being called to seek a jury of 12 and a couple of alternates. They will have

written confidential juror questionnaires that can include publicity-related questions stipulated by the parties or okayed by the judge. And finally, then, of course, our voir dire process subjects every prospective juror to questions by the prosecution and by the defense overseen by the judge as to their qualifications and whether they've formed any opinion about the guilt or innocence of these parties that could not be set aside to decide the case solely on the evidence heard in the courtroom. I expect that we'll find that conclusion with quite a few of these jurors. Joining me right now, Rahsaan Orange, high-profile trial consultant. Joining us from Wittek.com in L.A. Rahsaan, thank you for being with us.

How will the documentary affect jury selection? And what would you be looking for if you represented Lori Vallow, Cult Mom? My goodness. I mean, in this day and age of social media, you know, that kind of, I feel like the cat is out of the bag. Even if you're not watching local news coverage, it's these kinds of, you know, scintillating news stories have a way of traveling like wildfire on social media. And I think that, you know, I don't know how many, you know, internationally covered news stories are coming out of Idaho. But I would have to think that even someone who's not on social media would be hearing something about this, you know, through the grapevine. That's a really good point, Rahsaan, because as David Leroy pointed out,

let's figure this out. How many people have Netflix in Ada? How many people that have it watch it? How many people that have it and watch it are going to watch this documentary is a very good question. But you pointed out the power of social media, how clips from that will spread like wildfire. Yeah. So how would you handle it? What would you do about the documentary if you were representing cult mom? I mean, normally, like Mr. Leroy was saying, you saying, through the jury questionnaire and voir dire, you would do your very best to try to find people who have not seen this into, okay, normally you would want to find someone who's more highly educated. If you think that you have any kinds of the facts on your side and any kind of compelling

evidence that might acquit your client, which in this case, the more you look at it, the worse it looks. I just feel like they're starting from almost checkmate right off the bat. Well, I don't know, Rahsaan Orange. I've tried a lot of jury trials. I don't know what education has to do, whether you've got a Ph.D. or a high school degree, in telling right from wrong and what the facts are. Oh, yes. If there are facts, let's say, for some strange reason,

there's explanations for all of this stuff. An explanation for the dismemberment of the body? Okay. Let's just say in a universe where these people are actually innocent and there are these and there are some explanations for how this happened. And you actually have scientific evidence on your side. Even in that situation, it would be very challenging to cut through the emotional, the emotionally charged situation of a child murder. Okay. Hold on.

Joseph Scott Morgan, could you just give everybody a little reality check on what happened to JJ and Tylee? You know what? Let's just go with Tylee. Yeah, Tylee, just her alone, was actually found dismembered and significantly burned. Her remains were immediately adjacent to an area where the carcasses of dead animals had been buried previously.

And what really makes it even more kind of sinister is the area where she was burned, Nancy, was an area that appeared to have the appearance of a fire pit with chairs around it, you know, like seats that they had created, an area where people would gather and maybe previously roasted marshmallows and sang songs and all of this stuff. And this poor baby's body is buried out there in a shallow grave with a, you know, with a plastic bucket that was, in my opinion,

was used to catch the renderings that, that were left behind. What are renderings? Well, renderings are the tissues, remnants of tissues and that sort of thing, as they're gathering up her remains. And they're trying to get rid of as much evidence as they possibly could. And I got to tell you, they failed miserably in this case. And what it demonstrates is,

you know, I often say, you know, the basement in the house of depravity has no bottom to it. And in this case, it's so shocked everybody. I think just Tylee alone is so horrendous in this particular case. It's going to be very, very difficult to escape what they did to her. So Rahsaan Orange was right about that. Guys, not only do we have the bombshell claim that the murders of these two children could have entirely been avoided. We've got this Netflix documentary coming out that threatens to taint the entire jury pool, but what are you going to do? Tell everybody in Ada not to watch Netflix for the next six months until they finally get this thing on the trial schedule? Take a listen to more of the documentary. Who the hell is Chad Daybell? We can prepare ourselves to survive through these trials.

Chad Daybell believes there will be an apocalypse, that people that are righteous survive, and that he can distinguish evil spirits from good spirits. I've fought in this war for millennia. Two detectives come and knock on the door. Is Tylee or JJ here? I was like, Tylee, my sister? I call my mom, and her phone's dead. Charles wrote,

She calls her own daughter a dark spirit. My throat fell in my stomach. If you are very dark, your spirit has left your body. You're a zombie now. And the only way to free your spirit is to kill the body. I had this feeling in my spirit. So what's going on tonight? I can't had this feeling in my spirit. So what's going on tonight?

I can't get in touch with my kids. Something felt wrong. This case quickly became a national story. You're hearing the Netflix documentary, Sins of the Mother. Not only do we have all that swirling, but we also have cult mom Lori Vallow waltzing into the courtroom like she's in Miss Junior Miss. Now wait a second Nate Eaton was she in a beauty contest? Wasn't she in a beauty contest?

She was yeah several years ago she was in a few actually and there was one that was videotaped and we've seen the footage that's where she tells the judges that she's a ticking time bomb. Did she win? I don't believe she won. judges that she's a ticking time bomb did she win i don't believe she won wait did that include a swimsuit competition because i think that's what i saw it did yeah she was in a swimming suit okay all right it's all starting to fit together now um so i want you to take a listen to our friend jim moray at inside. It's doomsday mom Lori Daybell smirking and smiling as a judge determines she is finally mentally fit to stand trial for the murders of her two children. Her latest court appearance comes as Netflix releases a promo for a new documentary about the sensational case. Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream.

In the documentary called Sins of Our Mother, Daybell's son Colby can be seen calling his imprisoned mother. How are you, bubba? I'm not good, mom. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace to you nate eaton joining us from east idaho news.com in her last visit in court she walked in like a beauty queen nothing wrong with that at all those are not beauty contests those are scholarship events but we also hear she quote and i'm reading from a headline put on a smiley show during court hearing while her charges on killing her children are being discussed please help me yeah this was

kind of unusual compared to other court hearings for laurie daybell because in the past she's been Please help me. She looked over at our cameras, which were situated in the jury box, and smiled at the camera. When they discussed that this was a death penalty case and read her charges, she kind of rolled her eyes. And then after the hearing, Nancy, we went outside to the back of the courtroom where they bring the defendants out. And normally they pull a car right up to the door and put them right in the car. Well, this was a little bit of a walk from the door to the vehicle. And she came out smiling again. They put her in the car. She turned to the cameras and were smiling again. We asked, do you still love Chad? Do you miss your children? She didn't respond to our questions. And it was interesting that just days after this hearing, her attorneys filed to have cameras banned from the courtroom.

A whole other can of worms about trying to keep cameras out of the courtroom. But I want to talk about her appearance in court. First, I want to go to Dr. Angela Arnold. We know that in one of her last court appearances, she spent days ahead of time making lipstick, lip gloss out of Jolly Ranchers. And what was the other thing they'd eaten? A colored pencil. And what is it mixed with, Vaseline or what? I don't know if they just mix it with saliva or what.

If you get a Jolly Rancher wet and put it on your lips, it changes colors. Okay, that's my fault because I asked you and you had to answer saliva. Okay, that said, got that image up here. Can't unhear that. Dr. Angela Arnold, do you think this woman is insane? Because when you listen to her crazy beliefs, which I would like to point out, the Mormon church has said, we don't know what she's talking about. This is not part of our religion.

She's actually trying to drag Christ into the whole thing. They sound zany. But we know that she carefully planned this. She ordered her, quote, beach wedding dress. That was her Amazon search. And she ordered her wedding dress and her wedding ring and her groom's outfit for their beach wedding in Hawaii just before Chad Daybell's wife died in her sleep of natural causes. So either she's clairvoyant or she's a cold-blooded killer. Well, you know, Nancy, she is a cold-blooded killer, okay?

But I think the question is, how did she get pulled into this delusion with Chad Daybell? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're really actually blaming somebody else for her participation in her children's murder? And how many husbands are dead? I don't know. Three, right? We've got Charles Vallow dead, Joseph Ryan dead under unusual circumstances. Is there another dead husband, Nate Eaton?

No, but she has two previous husbands before that, so Chad's her fifth. Okay, gotcha. So only two dead husbands. I'll try to tell my husband that when we're discussing our program today. Only two dead husbands. Okay, back to you, Dr. Angela Arnold. Jump in. You know, Nancy, I've been, you know, we've been doing this story

for a long time, and I've been giving it a lot of thought, and we never talk about Chad Daybell. We really don't talk about him very much. Yeah, and I'm not talking about him right now. I'm asking you about lip gloss, for Pete's sake, and is she insane or not? Because if you can make homemade lip gloss and think to

put it on before you go into the courtroom and fix your hair. And I notice she's got a new hairstyle now. And paint your toenails and your fingernails and wave and smile to the camera. That doesn't scream insanity at me. I've got to tell you, Nancy, there is nothing more that I would love to do than interview her myself. Again, not what I asked you. Have you ever heard the term unresponsive, Dr. Angela Arnold? No offense, but could you just answer the question?

You're talking about me? Yeah, I'm talking about you. Nancy, you know what, Nancy? What? I got to tell you. I know that by her actions, it doesn't look like she's crazy. Oh, Lord, I hear a but coming. But, Nancy. I knew it. she's crazy. Oh, Lord, I hear a but coming. But Nancy.

I knew it. I knew it. Okay, but what? But Nancy, her behavior is so odd. And she just keeps up with it. Odd does not equal insane. I mean, you know what? Thank you, Dr. Angela Arnold.

Let me go to a trial lawyer, David Leroy. He's not just a trial lawyer. He's a former Idaho Attorney General and Lieutenant Governor. David, take off your defense hat for just one moment. It's difficult. I know that. You know what? Never mind.

That's a crazy ask. That ain't going to happen. What would you do with a client that thought to put on lip gloss, fix her hair, paint her nails, create lip gloss to start with, paint her nails, wave and smile at the camera, and, and more importantly, because that's all superficial, David Leroy, to lie to police when they come to your door and ask you where your children are. And the minute they turn the curve, you pack up all your stuff and you leave the continental U.S. and go to Hawaii and hide and continue telling them, oh, they're here. They're visiting here.

They're visiting there. That's why they're not at home. Cops finally go back out there. She's cleared out. She's gone. That is not insanity. Well, remember, Idaho has eliminated the insanity defense in criminal cases. That's probably for another show.

However, her unusual emotional affect in the courtroom, the giggling, the smiling, the scowling here currently is very concerning because you'll recall she comes off an 11-month stint with the Idaho mental health authorities during which she would supposedly return to comparative sanity to the extent of helping her own defense go forward with a trial. If she continues to manifest this kind of activity, she's probably going to get a motion from her defense lawyers to set this trial date again. You know what, Nate Eaton, there was a very well thought out and calculated plan for her to order a wedding dress, a wedding ring, travel to a beachside location for her wedding. She did in Hawaii, lie to police over and over and over about the children's whereabouts,

store all their belongings, their toys, blankets, before she left town. It's all very well thought out. There is no way in H-E-L-L this woman was insane. Well, a lot of people have asked too, now that we've been going on nearly three years since this case first broke, is she still devoted to Chad or is Chad going to turn on her? And one of the things I observed at court just a few weeks ago, she came in and on her fourth finger, her wedding ring finger, she had something. We didn't know if it was a band, if it was an actual metal band or a rubber band. Our photographer was able to zoom in.

She had taken her hair tie and put it on her finger and wrapped it around tight. Is this to send a, I don't want to say send a signal, but let people know that she's married. She's still devoted to chess. Yeah, she's crazy like a fox. Let me tell you that. And you're bringing me to my next point. Now, a vicious fight ongoing to keep cameras out of the courtroom. Let's go straight to our cut 127. Take a listen. Her defense attorneys have filed a motion asking that cameras be banned from the courtroom. Archibald and John Thomas, her attorneys, asked that cameras be banned. They said on August 16th, unbeknownst to defense counsel,

Court TV and or another media outlet set up a remote camera a few feet in front of the defendant's desk and put microphones on the defendant's desk. The camera zoomed in repeatedly on the defendant while she was listening to the arguments of counsel and while she was trying to converse with her counsel. Let me remind everyone that our founding fathers who wrote our Constitution had extensive discussions as they were working on the Constitution. And in those discussions, they're called legislative minutes. Now they are anyway. They stated they wish they could have courtrooms big enough for the entire community to watch the trial. That unlike other countries where there are secret proceedings, that in the United States,

there will be no such thing. And that's what a camera in the courtroom is, to let everyone watch as justice unfolds. And now the defense is complaining that there is going to be close-ups of cult mom Lori Vallow. I can't think of anything that would make her happier. Take a listen to more of Nate Eaton, East Idaho News, in Cut 128. It is unknown if any conversations between the defendant and her lawyers were recorded. The zoom in on the defendant's face was so close that the obvious intent of the filming was not to listen to the arguments of counsel, but to gauge every facial expression of the defendant or her lawyers. A zoom in on the defendant's ring finger was even highlighted in the media. If notes would have been written between defendant and her lawyers, the zoom in feature of the camera could have recorded the notes,

a clear violation of attorney-client privilege. To Rahsaan Orrin who is joining us, trial consultant from Wittek.com. He's joining us from L.A. today. Rahsaan, again, thank you for being with us. How does a camera in the courtroom affect how you would prepare a witness or a defendant? Well, I would take that. I mean, this is a very highly charged and nerve-wracking experience. And I mean, granted, I don't believe that they're going to put her on the stand. So that's kind of a moot point. But I would think that it would have a chance at

potentially, not poisoning, but affecting the jurors because the more people who are seeing this odd behavior and being aware of what this case is on TV, the more chance you have of some juror going home, talking to their wife, their cousin, their, you know, their, their brother.

And, you know, so you're against cameras in the courtroom. I wouldn't be. I would say in this case, I could see how they would want to, to how the defense would want to limit that. So you don't want all of us to see what's happening in court in the Lori Vallow cult

mom case? Since the defense, since these defendants look very bad. So while you've probably got the money in your hip pocket to fly out there and watch the trial, you don't want the rest of the world to see it? If I'm the defense, because I don't believe they have a good case. I think that the more people know about this, the more they see, the more they hear. Once they hear Joe Scott Morgan tell what happened to Tylee's body. Yeah, I think you're right about that, Rahsaan Orange.

Absolutely. Guys, there are a lot of people that want this trial to go forward. Take a look to k woodcock this is tyler and jj's family speaking to ktvb and i cut 125 and then we go back to the corner and we catch our breath and then we go back out again and we just keep doing it and we keep doing it and we'll keep doing it until we don't have to do it anymore. But until that moment comes, Kay and Larry just want closure. We're tired. We simply want to bury the kids the way they should have had a proper burial a long time ago. If it was a boxing match,

you train and you put together a plan and the bell rings and you get hit smack in the nose the first time and all the plans go out. When you're sitting in that seat. You are hearing Kay and Larry Woodcock. They just want to bury the children. Nate Eaton, what's the very latest? Well, Nancy, the judge has ruled in this case and he has decided to ban all cameras, including still cameras and video cameras. So for now, there will be no televised proceedings leading up to the trial or during the trial. Not only that, but just within the past few hours, John Pryor, Chad Daybell's attorney, has filed a motion to postpone the trial. It was supposed to begin in January. He is asking that it begin no earlier than October of 2023. He says this is a capital death penalty case.

He needs to put as much effort and time into preparing a defense, and he's worried that it could be rushed by holding it in January. He's also asking once again that the trials be separated, that they be severed, that Lori have her own, that Chad has his own. He's done this before. Judge Boyce has denied it before, but he's trying it again. He's saying that Chad's constitutional rights will be violated if these trials are not held separate. And again, he's asking for a major delay that no proceedings would begin at least for another year. Now, hearing on these motions to sever the trials and to continue the trial will be held on October 13th. We, of course, will be there and we'll let you know how the judge rules.

That trial is coming and I advise you, cult mom Lori Vallow, get back in your jail cell and make some more lip gloss because it's happening. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. Goodbye, friend.