Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cult Mom Lori Vallow 'secret messages' to new hubby behind bars

Episode Date: July 21, 2020

After felony charges are dropped against Lori Vallow relating to the discovery of her children's bodies. Now Vallow, only facing misdemeanors in Madison County, has had her bail reduced. Will she get out of jail?Joining Nancy Grace today: Darryl Cohen, Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Scott Hall - Bail Bondsman - Past President of the National Association of Professional Bondsmen, Nate Eaton - Reporter, East Idaho News   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two dead bodies belonging to children, involvement in a bizarre cult, lying, hiding the truth, going on the run. Of course, I'm talking about cult mom Lori Vallow. Banner, headline, bombshell. Her bond has been reduced. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to Lori Daybell's lawyer.

We're left with, as the court mentioned earlier, three misdemeanors, an obstruction, a solicitation, and a contempt charge, which carries with it a maximum, according to my calculations, two years and possible $2,500 fine. The only thing I would add in addition to the things that have been argued in the previous two bond hearings is my client has been a model inmate. These charges are not of a violent nature. There is no previous criminal record regarding my client in any other jurisdiction that we're aware of. Our access to funds is extremely limited. I think the court has issued an order previously outlining that if my client were bailed out or bonded out, that there were certain restrictions in place that weren't fine with keeping those restrictions. We think ultimately that the million-dollar bond isn't reflective of the current charges that we'd asked,

that the court reduce it to $100,000. A model inmate? No previous history? Well, you could say that about Ted Bundy before he was busted on his first murder or Scott Peterson. They didn't have a previous history either. What do you mean model inmate? Two dead children, one dismembered and burned, buried in the backyard of her brand new husband. They got married about two weeks after his other wife died mysteriously in her sleep. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. How the hey did cult mom Lori Vallow get a bond reduction? With me, an all-star panel to break it down

and put it back together again. Renowned attorney joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now defense attorney, Scott Hall, bail bondsman, past president, National Association professional bondsman at scottghall.com. Dr. Bethany Marshall, and boy, do we need a shrink. Psychoanalyst joining me out of Beverly Hills at DrBethanyMarshall.com, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. But first to Nate Eaton, reporter, EastIdahoNews.com, who's been on the story from the get-go. Nate, first of all, listen to this. September 22nd, the last time JJ Vallow was seen. Police interviewed Melanie Gibb and her boyfriend David Warwick, who were visiting

Lori that weekend. They told police Lori said JJ had turned into a zombie. The next morning, September 23rd, between 8 and 9 a.m., Warwick didn't see JJ and asked where he was. Borey stated he was acting out, so, quote, Alex had come and taken JJ. GPS data once again puts Alex on Chad's property that day from 9.55 a.m. until 10.12 a.m., hanging near the pond. All this evidence started coming to light around the first part of June 2020. Just days later, June 9th, police searched Chad's property. They focused on sites corresponding to the GPS from Alex's phone and the strange text to

Tammy. JJ and Tylee's bodies were found in those areas near the pond and fire pit. So according to cult mom Lori Vallow, little JJ, just seven, was acting out and crawling on the cabinet. She says she got really alarmed when he accidentally knocked a picture of Jesus off the refrigerator. So brother Alex Cox came and got him. He's never seen alive again. Tylee was inhabited by a zombie at about 13, 14 years old when she started disagreeing with her mother. She's buried. Okay, Nate Eaton, if you can top that, I want to hear it.

What's new, Nate? Well, as you mentioned, the bond was lowered on her misdemeanor charges the other day. She still has the $1 million bond on the conspiracy to conceal evidence, the evidence being the bodies of her children, which, as you said, they were found buried in Chad Daybell's backyard just a few weeks ago. The question is going to be what happens at the preliminary hearing here in two or three weeks when there's a list of 47 potential witnesses who could take the stand, who may have a lot to say about what they know about what Lori

Daybell allegedly did. With me, Nate Eaton from the EastIdahoNews.com, who has been breaking the news on this story from the very beginning. He is the one running along beside cult mom after they found her hiding out in a luxury condo in Hawaii, no sign of her children, saying, where are your children? Where are your children? Where are your children? That was him in the background. Let me go to Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now defense attorney. Daryl, you and I really cut our teeth with Louis Slayton, the then elected district attorney. And one of the things you had to do before you could really start trying cases is a,

you had to go to indictments and figure out how to read a police report, read an investigator's report and what charges, what legal charges are appropriate for the facts you just read. You had to go to juvenile where you try cases, basically argue to a social worker in a robe. There's no rules of evidence. It's just kind of a discussion. And then the kid always gets a slap on the wrist no matter what they did. Then you have to do a stint in deadbeat dads. Maybe, maybe not. If you have any brains at all, you go through a stint in appeals and you argue bonds, right? Bonds bonds and that's exactly what happened in a court of law so this is what we know daryl cohen everyone is nutting up because laurie valo cult mom got a

bond reduction when we know there's two dead bodies but the state had to drop three, two felony charges, leaving her with just misdemeanors. But she's got a million dollar bond in the county next door. So explain to me what happens in a bond hearing. I don't think Nancy, first of all, would say it doesn't matter. As long as she has a $1 million bond next door, she's going nowhere. But in this instance, she is facing misdemeanors with a maximum penalty of two years in prison. All the judge did was lower the bond

from, I believe, $250,000 total to $150,000. And that's $50,000 per count, per charge of each misdemeanor. Yeah, you're right. So it's really not a big deal. And it's my understanding that Lori changed her name from Vallow to Dumblow, or if she didn't, she should have. You know, Daryl Cohen, we have done bond hearings. One, I remember every afternoon, I guess it was on Thursday afternoons and Tuesday afternoons, there'd be bond hearings. And we'd do one bond hearing after the next, after the next. And you look at the severity of the crime, the likelihood the person is going to flee,

the likelihood they'll commit another crime, the likelihood that they will tamper with the evidence, the likelihood that they will show up like they're supposed to for court. With me, the man that knows it all about bail bonding, Scott Hall, past president, National Association of Professional Bondsmen at scottghall.com. Scott, you know what? What do you make of cult mom having a lowered bond? She was in Hawaii. She had a huge bond.

As soon as she got back to the States, they slashed it. Now it's been slashed again. What about it, Scott Hall? Well, and I think the bond originally started out at $5 million. Then it was lowered to $1 million. Now it's been lowered to $150,000. And, you know, I think the defense actually has a pretty good case because they got rid of the felony charges. And as the attorney said before, we're talking about two or three misdemeanor charges here. And my puzzlement is, you know, her husband is dead. Her children are dead.

Her brother is dead. Her new husband's wife is dead. And I'm wondering why there are not more charges other than conspiracy to commit. But obviously, she's very similar to Charles Manson. She doesn't have to do the act. She, in fact, is very good at getting others to do the act. But we know that bail cannot under the Eighth Amendment, it cannot be excessive. It needs to be sufficient to guarantee that person's appearance in court. You know what? I hear you. I hear you. But since she took off for Hawaii the last time police asked her where her children were, this woman

should not have a bond at all. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about cult mom Lori Vallow. Her children dead and buried in her new husband's pet cemetery behind his house. Yes, her children are buried in the pet cemetery. And she just got her bond slashed. I know it sounds bad at the outset, but let me explain what's happening here. You just heard from our friends at KTVB.

Now take a listen to KTVB Misty Englert. September 8, 2019, the last time 17-year-old Tylee Ryan is seen. She was on a trip to Yellowstone with her mother, Lori Vallow, and uncle, Alex Cox. A cellular analysis survey team, or CAST, with the FBI analyzed data from Alex's phone. According to the probable cause affidavit, the GPS data points used by CAST are highly accurate, placing a device within six meters of its location. On September 9th, one day after the Yellowstone trip, that GPS data puts Alex's phone at Lori's Rexburg apartment between 2.42 a.m. and 3.37 a.m. This is the only time he was at Lori's between midnight and 6 a.m., according to the PCA. A few hours later, 9.21 a.m. until a little after 11 a.m., Alex's phone pings at Chad Daybell's property, specifically placing him

behind the home near the barn. So brother Alex Cox, last seen with little JJ, age seven, goes to cult mom, sister Lori Vallow's home, 2.30 in the morning. Then he shows up at the new husband, Chad Daybell's farm. Then Chad Daybell's in the backyard at the pet cemetery where the children are found buried. This is the way I understand it to you, Nate Eaton. Cult mom Lori Vallow had two felonies, three misdemeanors for basically lying, trying to get other people to lie, not doing what cops and judges told her. Those are misdemeanors. The two felonies were abandonment of her children, not paying for them, not taking care of them, just leaving them. Those are felonies.

However, the indictment was factually wrong because when she was first charged with abandoning her children on a certain date, we now know those children were already dead. So she didn't abandon them in life. They were dead. So those two felonies don't work anymore. They had to be dropped, leaving her in Madison County with just three misdemeanors. However, in Fremont, a neighboring county, she's charged with concealing the dead bodies, and she's got a million-dollar bond there. So who cares what happens with the bond in Madison? Am I right or wrong? Did I get that right, Nate Eaton?

Yeah, you explained it pretty good. And, of course, the big question that so many people have is, why hasn't she been charged with murder or conspiracy to commit murder? Why hasn't Chad Daybell been charged with murder? Well, I was talking with one of the people very close to the case who told me, listen, they're locked up. We know where they're at. We've got one shot at this.

We can't mess it up. Autopsies are still being performed on both of the children. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Drinking from a fire hydrant. Nate Eaton, slow down, friend. Tell me everything. I want to let it sink in so I can percolate. Now, start at the beginning.

What now? She's not going anywhere. You started with that. We know she's not going anywhere. Her attorney the other day said her funds are extremely limited. Chad's funds are extremely limited. Let's not forget he's also in jail on $1 million bond. So if they both want to get out, you've got to come up with $2 million or a bond company that will help you get that money. So they're not going anywhere. The detectives, the prosecutors, they have one shot to get this right, to get their case set.

And so they are in no rush. And they're also waiting on the autopsies of the children. They know that Tylee's body was so badly decomposed, she wasn't recognizable. They had to use her dental records to confirm her identity, they were able to pull a little bit of her soft tissue. And that's right now undergoing DNA analysis. So I imagine once those results come back, they may be able to press forward on a potential murder charge on either of them. Their defense may be that Alex did it all because, as you mentioned, Alex was there at Chad's property. But nevertheless, there has to be some sort of tie between them and Alex and what happened out at Chad Daybell's property. I'm just drinking in, just listening and trying to absorb everything Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com, is telling me.

And that's quite a mouthful. I've got a lot of questions about bond. I've got a lot of questions about Bond. I've got a lot of questions about a speedy trial, demand, and double jeopardy. But first, to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, to me, it seems as if the autopsies should be back on a lot of people, including Tammy Daybell. All right. And Tammy Daybell is husband Chad Daybell's wife that died in her sleep. And cult mom had already ordered her wedding dress and wedding band before Tammy died. And then she marries Daybell a couple of weeks after Tammy's

surprise death in her sleep. Okay. no autopsy back on that formally. What is the holdup on the autopsy for the children? How are they doing it, Joe Scott? Well, I got to tell you, Nancy, one of the things that keeps coming to mind, you know, we hear about the clandestine burials that we have, and that's generally what we refer to these as, where we have JJ buried in a separate area from Tylee. And yes, Tylee was severely decomposed. And from what we're hearing,

she's also partially dismembered. But more care was taken with JJ's body. He was wrapped, apparently, in plastic with duct tape and all that thing. And we can talk about the evidence related to that. But Nancy, something I want to get to the heart of the matter here is what was the mechanism? What were the causal factors relative to death? If we could go back just for a second to do you remember them talking about JJ? They raised kind of a ruckus over the fact or the news media. They talked a lot about how he was acting out. He was climbing up on the cabinets and all this sort of thing.

And remember, J.J. in the past has been medicated. And from what I understand, he had not been medicated for some time now. I think he suffered. He's on the autism spectrum. Dr. Bethany can address that. But all of a sudden, the last time we see J.J, he is essentially kind of passed out on Alex's shoulder. Do you remember that? They were talking about that. He's kind of in this this deep sleep. If you reflect, you know, so we couple that with we think about Tammy Daybell, who we still don't have autopsy results on her either. And again,

she's decomposed to a great degree. She had been embalmed and buried in Utah, even though she died in Fremont County up in Idaho. And the coroner up there completely train wrecked this case because they didn't examine her body. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. What? What did you say? I said that relative to Tammy Daybell, the coroner in Fremont County train wrecked that case. Do you know why? Because she never went out and examined the body of Tammy Daybell. And, you know, we get these other reports that are coming in that I think the kids had said that they saw a frothy cone coming out of her mouth. That gives us an indication that something's affecting her lungs. She was never even autopsied, Nancy, when she, you know, she was found dead. I don't think the coroner even examined her body until she made it to the funeral home there in Rexburg. And of course, you know, in order to

transport a body across state lines, you got to embalm the body. So they were sending her to Utah. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about cult mom Lori Vallow, who's just gotten a bond reduction and two felony charges thrown out of court. Dr. Bethany Marshall with us. You know, Dr. Bethany, my daughter, has declared herself, first of all, she said vegan.

And, you know, if you argue with them, that makes them want to do it even more. So somehow I've got her talked into vegetarian. Do you know how much I follow that child around trying to get her to eat? I mean, anything. I make all these tofu dishes and we all act like we like it. And I I mean, actually I'm getting used to it. If I have one more pliable, okay, I don't know even what it is. But my point is do anything just to know at night she's had plenty to eat. And here's my question to you, Dr. Bethany. The other day in court, Lori Vallow,

here she's got her two dead children dismembered, burned, buried with the pet cemetery in the backyard. And you know what she says? Judge, I prefer to be called Miss Daybell. You know what? I can't say what I'm thinking because it's against FCC guidelines.

Dr. Bethany, what is wrong with her? I prefer to be called Ms. Daybell. Nancy, she has sociopathic traits. She really does. She has shallow emotions, no remorse. Her capacity to rationalize her criminal behavior, killing and dismembering her own children. Think about it, that she says that her son was climbing all over the cabinets, that he knocked over a picture of Jesus. That is just a rationalization for killing her own children. She has no attachments. What's strange is that she wants to be called Miss Daybell as if she's in love with her husband, but this woman has no capacity to love. There's an image in my mind, Nancy, that I keep thinking about as I'm listening to everybody talk. That is that Lori Daybell and her brother take the kids to uh Yellowstone right for a

quote-unquote family vacation and they're driving around looking at the buffaloes I don't know if you've ever been there it's beautiful it's gorgeous it's vast well did you wait did you just say you don't know if I've been to Yellowstone? Did you just say that? Have you been there? Jackie, do something with Bethany. Have you not been watching Facebook, Instagram, Twitter? I need to do that. I took the children on an RV trip to get away from COVID all the way across the country to Yellowstone. I knew that.

Really? Yes. Well, it doesn't sound like it. I knew you. Okay. I knew you got an RV. I knew you drove them across the country. I did not get an RV.

Those things are expensive. I rented it. You rented it. Okay. So imagine you're driving your kids around Yellowstone. You're looking at the buffalo. You're looking at how beautiful it is. You're looking at the buffalo. You're looking at how beautiful it is. You're driving through the mountains.

You're giving them an experience of seeing the world, enjoying nature, communing with God, connecting with you and your husband. Imagine Lori and her husband driving or her brother driving the kids around Yellowstone, and they're looking for a burial site. And the kids don't even realize it. This is no family vacation. You know what, Bethany? You scare me sometimes. We've been friends a long time.

But you're a little scary because I hadn't thought of that, of them driving around Yellowstone actually looking for a burial site. And when they couldn't figure out what to do, they bring the children back and then bury them in Chad Daybell's backyard. Bob Schell right now, cult mom Lori Vallow, gets a bond reduction, two felonies thrown out of court. With me, special guest Nate Eaton, reporter, eastidahonews.com. Nate, what have you learned about the way cult mom Lori Vallow apparently communicates with Chad Daybell? Well, she's not allowed to communicate with him directly because they're both in different facilities.

Inmates are not allowed to talk to each other. And Chad Daybell has a list of specific visitors who can go and actually see him face-to-face. That's per his attorney. That's per the legal system. Nobody else can go see him. His children are on that list. His children are able to go see him and then kind of be the go-between to Lori. So they might go visit him, spend an hour or two with him, and then go home.

And Lori can accept visitors through a telemate system. It's a video chat system where anybody can request a visit with her. You can go on right now and log in and dial her in, and if she decides to chat with you, you pay for the call and you can communicate. So while they can't talk to each other directly, while they cannot see each other directly face-to-face, there is a specific list of people who could act as a go-between between the two parties. Remember, Nancy, tomorrow is July 22nd. That is the date

that they were preparing for everything to come to an end, that they would usher in Jesus Christ, that there would be 144,000 followers who would be with them, and the second coming would happen. It's very well possible that both Chad and Lori are thinking that tomorrow this will all be over, that the prison walls may fall down, that they may be free, and that all of this will end. I'm just trying to take in again what you say, because every time you open your mouth, you give me a revelation. Let me think. So Chad Daybell is communicating with Lori Daybell through his children. And anybody, if she accepts the call, can speak to cult mom Lori Vallow through, what did you say it was called? It's called TeleMate. A lot of, TeleMate, a lot of facilities across the country use this. You have to pay per minute.

Do you see the person? And then you request it. Yeah, it's like a FaceTime system. Okay. Yep. So I assume to you, Daryl Cohen, that that's being monitored because, just to give you an example, do you remember all those videos of Top Mom, Casey Anthony, screaming at her parents after she murdered her child, Kelly?

And all of that came out because, of course, your phone calls, unless it's with your lawyer or your priest, are not confidential at the jail. Your meetings, only with your lawyer and your priest, your preacher, that's the only thing confidential, or your spouse. So what I'm saying is those telemate video conferences are probably being monitored, wouldn't you think, Darrell Cohen? I would be absolutely stunned if they were not being monitored Nancy and we also know that covertly conversations and video conferences are still being monitored and you and I both in prosecutors and we know that there were times that law enforcement didn't have a search warrant, didn't have the right to monitor.

But they did, and they never directly used that evidence. But based on what they heard, they went through the back door or the side door or the upstairs door, and they got what they needed. So you bet they're being monitored. And the good thing is that stupid people who've done stupid things in the past continue to do stupid things because, as Bethany pointed out, she's a sociopath. And she is invincible. No longer invisible, but she's invincible. If you don't believe it, ask her. I would really love it. Nancy, can I weigh in on something real quickly?

Jump in, Bethany. Okay, this whole idea of the 144,000 going to heaven, the rest of us, of course, being left behind, the prison walls falling down, the kids being zombies. It's tempting to think that they really believed that. I don't think they did. All of these are very shallow ideas cobbled together from other faiths and religions. Isn't it the Jehovah's Witness who believe that only 144,000 will get to heaven? You know, we all see zombie movies. I think they cobbled together a loose set of beliefs to manipulate everybody around them, and that they're so narcissistic and so self-centered that they thought they could just call on any idea, and the people around them would do their bidding. But strangely enough, people did do their bidding.

I mean, Lori Daybell's own brother killed her husband. So these beliefs worked within a small family circle. But once they get in front of a judge, they get in prison, they get with the prison guards, other inmates. Right. These ideas are not going to work anymore. They're going to be exposed for what they are.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about cult mom Lori Vallow, who has gotten a slash in her bail there in Madison County. Luckily, Fremont County, neighboring county, has a million dollar bond on her head. She'll have to sit in jail there, but it is possible for her to make bail. Joining me is Scott Hall, bail bondsman, past president, National Association of Bail Bondsmen, and Nate Eaton, eastidahonews.com. Nate Eaton, do you recall recently where cult mom Lori Vallow's mother and sister were literally laughing in their interview about the prospect that Lori Vallow knew anything about the disappearance or death of her children. Do you remember that? They actually laughed.

Didn't they, Jackie? They actually laughed at the possibility that the children were dead. Do you remember that? Yeah, they stood up for her. They said that she, the children are safe. They believed her. They had been told that by her. In fact, her mother, Janice, even said that she had spoken with JJ on October 1st based on her phone records. Well, we now know that JJ was dead on October 1st. So it's unclear what Lori's mother meant by that, who she was speaking with. Maybe she got the dates confused or had a long conversation with Lori on that date. Well, she said that to a cop and put it in a police report. Police reports are sworn statements. At the bottom it says, I hereby swear. So, you know, telling a cop a lie like that, she better be mistaken

or she's in a whole lot of trouble right now. So Scott Hall, Bill Bondsman, I wonder if those two that were laughing at the idea, the children were dead and defending Lori Vallow, wonder if they're going to ante up and get her out of jail in the neighboring county, million dollar bail. So on a million dollar bail, Scott Hall, typically you only have to put up 10%. That's $100,000. How's that going to work? Well, that is typically what the family would put up. But being a bondsman, you understand you're on the hook, not for $100,000, but on the hook for $1 million. And you've got a person that has, you know, everybody she comes in contact with dies. As a bondsman, I would be concerned about getting close to her because I might be the next recipient of whatever cult or karma she has going on. And again, I think there's a great

case to be made that she is such a danger that, as you said before, no bond would be sufficient to protect the public because it's not in many cases, some cases it's about appearance, but in some cases it's about risk to the public and everybody she comes in contact with, her husband, her new husband's ex-wife, her dead wife, her children, her brother, I mean, who knows would be the next recipient. Basically, anybody that could testify against her. Because remember, the children were there when Charles Vallow was shot dead at her place by her brother, Alex Cox.

They were the only witnesses in the home other than her. Now they're dead. Yeah, you're right. I wouldn't touch her with a 10-foot pole. Guys, in the last hours, we're learning a lot about the case against cult mom Lori Vallow. And Nate Eaton, reporter at eastidahonews.com, boy, would I like to be a fly on the wall come tomorrow when Lori Vallow looks up and says, Today's July 22, the end of the world.

We're all still here. So why did I kill my children? This is all BS. You know, that's what's going to happen. If she can't accept it, I don't know that she may be able to rationalize it in her mind as to why the world's not coming to an end. But the reality is she basically fell for a line from Chad Daybell, married him, had her children killed, buried him in his backyard. And she's got a string of dead bodies behind her. What's that going to be like tomorrow when the world doesn't come to an end? And she's not specially chosen by our Holy Father in heaven to lead the righteous to the new Jerusalem. Whoopsie. Ruh-roh. Yeah, well, one of her very close friends tells me that Lori and Chad were always predicting stuff and giving dates,

and the dates were always wrong. And when those dates were wrong, they would say, well, the Lord wasn't ready or people on earth weren't ready. So it very well could happen that the dates already changed by now if they truly believe this. Nate, Nate, Nate. Tomorrow comes and nothing happens. I got to ask you another question.

A pressing question. Yeah. You do know that Chad Daybell would tell women he was married to them in a previous life, right? Usually like they had been the wife of James, the brother of John, James, the brother of Christ, that they had all these past lives and in those past lives, he had been their husband. You do know that, correct? Oh, yeah. He told Lori that they were married in a previous life probation, they call it.

Yes. Okay. So that's what I was leading up to. Thank you for ruining my crescendo. So long story short, bottom line, that was his pickup line. And I've heard a lot of them. But I was married to you in a past life in order to have an affair with you, to put it euphemistically, or get her to marry him. You know, Tammy Daybell was jealous of Chad Daybell.

And she had reason to be because he was chatting up all these women about their past marriages and another life, getting them to sleep with him. That's what I think was going on. You know, it's very well possible that... Well, I mean, what's wrong with my theory? Isn't it true that he told other people the same thing? I was your husband in a previous life. Well, we do know that he and Lori would say that. They would have revelations or visions or whatever you want to call it for people all over the place and would approach them and say, I mean, that's one of the very first things he told Lori when he met her within minutes.

They were talking about, yeah, we were married in a previous probation. What jogged his memory? A shot of her rear end? What? What made him suddenly realize they were married before and had slept together before? So I guess that makes it okay now. Hey, Nancy, just a quick comment. Oh, I knew this was coming. Jump in Bethany. Almost all cults are founded on sex. They're sex cults. And I find this fascinating. I did not know this,

but it confirms what we know, which is with most cults, the beliefs are flimsy. They're used to manipulate everybody around them. And whoever is the leader is really just trying to have sexual access to all the followers. So, you know, this belief comes in that they were all married in a former life. Hey, we've always already been married. why don't we just have sex right now so it could be that the mo of laurie killing the children is so typical with what we see with um infanticide with women when they kill their children that just like with with casey anthony they get rid of the children for the love of a man they try to get the children out of the way, as I said so many times,

so they can have an idealized life. And she felt that if JJ and Tylee were out of the way, then she would have Chad once and for all, and he would never want all of these other women. So it doesn't matter how complicated the story gets. The psychology is so eerily similar in all these domestic homicides. To you, Nate Eaton, reporter, EastIdahoNews.com. What more can you tell me?

What is happening behind bars? Well, Lori's attorney said, quote, she's a model citizen the other day. She's by herself. I mean, she's really isolated. She doesn't have much interaction with the other inmates. She's preparing for her preliminary hearing. And the interesting thing on those misdemeanor charges that we've been talking about, you know, during the show about the bond,

her attorney is demanding a jury trial for these. And that's been set for January. I'm so happy. You know why? Because Lori Vallow, defending herself, may take the stand. And that will open her up to cross-examination. You know, Daryl Cohen, a trial tactic I always had, day one of a trial, when I'd be picking a jury, I'd have a nice, big, thick file labeled, Defendants Cross-Exam.

And I'd lay it on the trial table right where the defense could see it. And they would sit there and wonder what I was going to do to them on cross-examination. The entire trial. And very often would not take the stand. But that's what you prepare for before you write your opening statement. You've got to be ready for that cross exam.

If the defendant takes a trial, takes a stand. Oh, I hope she takes a stand. What about it, Daryl Cohen? Well, Nancy, I would salivate and pray that the defendant would take the stand because then you have her or that or him in those days for the most part. But if she takes a stand, all bets are off. And quite frankly, Bethany, I think you would agree, her personality, her sociopathic personality means she's invisible now and she's invincible.

So whatever she says under oath is clearly the truth because she can't lie, even though her truth seems to modify with each and every circumstance. And you know what else? You know what else? Nate Eaton, a legality. Yes, she's going to be tried on three misdemeanors. She's the one demanding a jury trial, okay?

And those three misdemeanors have nothing to do with murder. However, they do have to do with the hiding of the truth about the whereabouts of the children. So when she's cross-examined on those three misdemeanors, the dead body evidence will come in on cross-exam. What's she going to say to that? Well, that's exactly the point the prosecutor made the other day, that while they don't directly tie to murder, while police were asking her, where are your children, she knew they were dead, buried in Chad's backyard.

That's what the prosecutor said. While they were asking about where's your special needs son who needs medication to function every day, he was buried wrapped in plastic in Chad Daybell's backyard. And the prosecutor made that point when he argued against the bond reduction. He sure did. Because they were just the misdemeanors. But they were in furtherance of hiding dead bodies. He made a really good argument. The reality is you've got to put up or shut up.

You've got to prove that in your indictment or it's not worth a hill of beans. Although what he said is absolutely true. Guys, cult mom Lori Vallow gets a bond reduction, and it's now, according to Nate Eaton, demanding a jury trial, I can't wait, on the three remaining misdemeanors in Madison County. She has a much bigger conspiracy to hide and conceal, destroy evidence, that evidence, the bodies of her two children in a neighboring county. So don't worry, she's not walking free anytime soon.

We wait as justice unfolds. Remember, tomorrow, July 22, D-Day, according to cult mom Lori Vallow, that's the end of the earth. Okay. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be one of the 144,000 handpicked to go to the New Jerusalem. As hard as I try, I don't think that's going to happen. Nancy? Yes. Do you have news for me? And this is Scott. Jump in, Scott.

Yes, this is Scott Hall. And it's kind of prophetic she's talking about tomorrow. Maybe somebody will give her the scripture, Isaiah 49, 15, which says, Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has born? It says, though she may forget, I will not forget you. So that's what she needs to be presented with in jail tomorrow is although she may have forgotten her children. Okay. She will not be forgotten in the end. She is going to get her justice at some point. Scott Hall, a fitting end to our program today. We wait as justice unfolds.

Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.