Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cult Mom Lori Vallow Sex Affair W/'Prophet' Detailed in 'NOVEL' Before Murders

Episode Date: April 18, 2023

Chad Daybell writes a "novel' for his "goddess lover" over the course of a day. This love story was sent to Lori Vallow as a series of text messages.  Daybell is still married to Tammy Daybell at the time. He also texted Vallow comparing himself to "Harry Potter living with his relatives." Daybell says, though, that he senses he will be free soon.  The cause of Tammy Daybell's death was finally announced in court. The prosecutor revealed that Daybell died of asphyxiation. Initially, it was claimed that Tammy Daybell died peacefully in her sleep.    Joining Nancy Grace Today: Tara Malek - Bosie, ID, Attorney & Co-owner of Smith + Malek; Former State and Federal Prosecutor; Twitter: @smith_malek  Robin Dreeke - Behavior Expert & Retired FBI Special Agent / Chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program; Author: "Sizing People Up: A Veteran FBI Agents Manual for Behavior Prediction;" Twitter: @rdreeke  Caryn Stark- Psychologist/Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter: @carnpsych Dr. Jan Gorniak- Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV); Board Certified Forensic Pathologist   Nate Eaton – News Director, EastIdahoNews.com; Twitter: @NateNewsNow, Instagram: @n.eaton  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Does it never end with cult mom Lori Vallow? Well, obviously, the answer to that is no. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Cult mom Lori Vallow on trial for multiple murders, including those of her own children, JJ and Tylee. Now, according to her, she had nothing to do with it. And she has plenty of people that she thinks are going to take the fall. I disagree.

So where did the whole thing start? Well, it started with sex. That's where it started. But I would suggest for the jury's purposes, it started with an email. Take a listen to this. Charles at Wright Planning Group email address to Tammy.Daybell at gmail.com on June 30th at 2019 at 1016 AM. The subject line in the email is, your husband and my wife and the body of the email reading are having an affair. Her name is Lori Vallow.

I've got definite proof, or definitive proof, if you care to see it. Contact me and I'll share it with you. It's devastating, I know, but the truth needs to be shown. Charles Vallow. And from your review of the device, were you able to determine whether or not Tammy Debo would have actually read these emails? I did contact at least Sugar Salem School District and asked if those were read.

There's no indication that they were. They said they could have been deleted, read and deleted, or just deleted, but there's no indication. Okay, wait They said they could have been deleted, read and deleted, or just deleted. But there's no indication. Okay, wait a minute. Wait a minute. So they were deleted. You know what? Just ask yourself.

If you got an email on the subject line, which is basically all I ever read anyway. Sorry, Jackie. Your husband and my wife, who in their right mind wouldn't read that? Of course she read it. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But, you know, first, let me go to Tara Malek out of that jurisdiction, Idaho. She's a high-profile lawyer and co-owners Smith and Malik. Now, in addition to having her own firm, she's a former state and federal prosecutor.

That's not easy. Tara, please, let's just get real for a moment. Who is going to pretend that Tammy Daybell did not read that? Your husband and my wife, that's the headline? Yeah, I think it's completely unreasonable to think that she wouldn't have at least opened that email and read it. Most of us, we're seeing a headline

or a subject line like that in the email. Of course, we're going to jump in and figure out what's going on. Even if she just deleted it later, it certainly doesn't mean that she didn't at least take a look. I'm sure her interest was piqued. Also joining me, high-profile psychologist joining us out of Manhattan is Karen Stark. You can find her at karenstark.com.

That's Karen with a C. Karen, really? I mean, even if it just said your husband at the top of an email, I would read it. Because he would say your husband. If somebody wrote about David, I might pause because it's obviously somebody that knows me that's sending me something. Maybe it's about his birthday or they ran into him at McDonald's. But your husband and my wife? No, I would read that pronto.

Who are they kidding of course of course anybody would read it nancy i mean you want you want to know somebody has some information for you but it's pretty amazing how much people will ignore something like that if they don't want to disrupt their marriage and i know it's really hard to believe wait a minute i don't want to disrupt their marriage. And I know it's really hard to believe. Wait a minute. I don't like what you said. But as far as analyzing this case, I'm interested in what you said. Because you know how women, I'm going to go to you in just a sec, Robin's Reap. Because I'm sure you have a lot to say on this. A lot of people, they don't want to know the spouse is cheating I mean they're all the signs do I even

have to say lipstick on your collar told the tale on you blah blah blah blah we're dating ourselves Nancy yes right hey that was my grandmother's song so what I'm saying is you may put on blinders and you just don't see because you don't want to see or you trust and love the person so much that you don't see it but I mean an email are you suggesting in that same line of reasoning that Tammy Daybell may have just said I'm not reading that and deleted it well even if she read it what I'm suggesting is that denial is very strong and I feel quite positive that she did not want to deal with that news, that it was not something that she wanted to pay attention to

because it would disrupt her life. Joining me right now, Nate Eaton, News Director, EastIdahoNews.com, has been in the courtroom from the very beginning. Listen to this theory. It's a good one from Jackie right there. Or Chad deleted because Lori. First of all, we do not refer to accused killers by their first name.

As you know, we had that out over OJ Simpson. Chad. What about this, Nate? deleted that email sent to his wife after Lori Vallow told him that her husband was sending the email. Could that have happened? Yeah, it's quite possible because the detective said that Chad and Lori were crafting emails pretending to be Charles Vallow. They sent an email pretending to be Charles to Chad saying, please come immediately and help me write this book. You're going too fast. You're making my head hurt.

Okay. Slow down, Nate Eaton. What? There was an email that Chad Daybell received allegedly from Charles Vallow saying, I would love to fly you to our house. You can stay with us. I want to write a book with you.

I want to write my biography. This needs to happen immediately. Please respond immediately. I don't see Charles Vallow as the kind of guy that wanted to write his biography. And I'm just basing that on everything I've gleaned from his friends and relatives. He just seemed like a hardworking guy that loved his children and was wondering what happened to his wife and he found he found the email and confronted my head around that night eaten do you know how i would fall out if david lynch came home one day and said i'm gonna write my biography i mean what write your biography just stop right there ladies if your husband came home and said he was going to write his biography okay i just had to digest that nate eating okay go ahead nate that's a lie right there oh i wish i could argue this to the jury go ahead charles found it charles

found that email confronted laurie over message, which they read in court, gave her a deadline, said, you need to let me know by such and such a time what is happening here. And that's when he then reached out to Tammy with the email you just played saying they're having the affair. But Chad was involved with all of these emails. He very well could have gone in and delete them. Although that email did go to two email addresses, her work email and her personal email.

Of course, we don't know if Chad had access to the work email, and the detectives say they don't know if she actually ever read it. Okay, Robin Drake is joining me. Behavior expert, former FBI special agent, chief of FBI counterintelligence behavioral analysis program. That's certainly a mouthful. Author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction. I'm getting more and more and more impressed with every word I read. You can find Robin at peopleformula.com Robin, is there any way in H-E-L-L

Tammy did not read this email. Title, your husband, my wife. I think 100% she read it because it's a lever of influence using curiosity and that's what elicitors do is they put something down there

it's going to entice on a read it what I found also really interesting is the the theme of writing a book and a memoir because Laurie's dad tried that same kind of thing years ago you know human behavior starts when we were young and it generally has a thread through our lives and with all the death around Laurie and then that theme that's kind of an odd parental thing when she was younger with what her dad was doing. It was interesting that they would use that as a lever of maybe making someone feel safe. Now, Jackie's furiously waving that they had been married 30 years and they shared everything. But you know what? That doesn't necessarily mean they read each other's emails.

Robin Drake, joining me, behavior expert. Karen, you can have a cup of tea right now because you've heard this story before. I don't want to read my husband's emails because one time I decided I was going to investigate his every activity. I tried to read his emails. They were awful. He's a, quote, business person. They were the most boring. I went through about, I tried to go through about 90. I got through about 10. My eyes were bleeding. I nearly died of boredom.

That was it. Never again. So the whole reading each other's emails and following them and reading their texts. If you're at that point, you might as well get a divorce because all the trust is gone. You can't let the person out of your sight. I mean, that's just too much trouble. Would you agree with that, Robin Drake, as he's sitting there reading his wife's emails? Go ahead. Yeah, 100%. You know, when someone when trust is lost, what happens is just like you described, Nancy, is that there's a feeling of being unsafe and that there's aspects of their lives that they're trying to hide.

And the only way to try to regain trust is have full transparency in that aspect of their life that they felt they lost that trust in. And so that's what inspires them to do those types of things. And when you like you're describing when you when you read your spouse's emails and they bore you to living tears, that's when you know, well, then we have full transparency and there's nothing going on here. And oh, by the way, he caught me reading them too. He caught me reading them.

So he was very unconcerned that I was snooping through his emails and I caught him being good again. I can't ever catch him doing anything wrong. Can we get back off me reading David's emails that one time to this case? And this is a great question for everybody on this panel, including you, Dr. Jean Gorniak, renowned medical examiner, joining us out of Vegas. Never a lack of business in Vegas. Everybody, I want you to hear a real brain twister for a lot of

prosecutors, but I don't think it's going to bother this prosecutor one bit. I want you to hear defense attorney John Thomas cross-examining detective Ray Hermosillo because if Lori Vallow, cult mom Lori Vallow, is absolutely in Hawaii, how is the prosecutor going to prove she murdered Tammy Daybell? Listen. With regards to the death of Tammy Daybell, Tammy Daybell died on October the 19th, 2019, as far as you know, right? Yes, sir. Okay. And do you know where Lori Dayville was on October the 19th? Or, I'm sorry, at that time she was Lori Vallow. Do you know where Lori Vallow was on October the 19th, 2019?

I do. Where was she? Hawaii. Okay. So she wasn't anywhere near Tammy Daybell when Tammy Daybell died? That's correct. Okay, Defense Attorney John Thomas, two words for you. Wishful thinking. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Tara Malik Joining us out of Idaho, this jurisdiction, these prosecutors were prepared for that. And that's how you win a case you anticipate what the other side is going to do and then you shoot it down before it happens because she is charged with conspiracy to commit murder and a couple of first degree murders. How do you sort out what you just heard, Tara? Because she absolutely called mom Lori Vallow was nowhere near Tammy Daybell at the time she was murdered. Well, I think the defense attorney is trying to do what defense attorneys do, which is poke holes

where they can. Problem here is that Lori is accused of conspiracy to convert the murders of Tammy in this case. And so it doesn't matter if she was over in Hawaii. What matters is what she did and whether she put anything in motion to be a part of this plan to murder Tammy Daybell. Nate Eaton joining us in the courtroom from the get-go uh from eastidahonews.com what about that nate eaton well i know that you know laurie's attorneys weeks ago filed an alibi oh yeah that she was two doors down when her son was kidnapped and murdered in the apartment complex oh sorry i was in one c while he was being murdered in one d yeah i heard that and also when

tammy died that she was in hawaii so the prosecution knew that this was coming but how do you deny these text messages and these emails back and forth and witnesses who have taken the stand one witness took the stand the other day saying that the day tammy died they showed a text message saying oh oh my gosh did you hear that Tammy died? And Lori pretended that she didn't know. And then four hours later, another friend texted and said, did you hear that Tammy died? And again, she pretended she didn't know, whereas the first friend had already told her hours earlier. So they're exposing all of this and her friends or former friends are taking the stand saying, this is the chain of events that happened. And when you

have all of this evidence stored in the cloud, I don't know how you can dispute that. Robin Drake joining us, a behavior expert, former FBI special agent and author of Sizing People Up. Robin, is it true? I was thinking about how people cover their tracks and how these two, Colt Monlorey Vallow and the prophet Chad Daybell did not cover their tracks. Is it true that two people can be on a VPN, a privacy, virtual privacy, and they can text each other and call each other if they have a certain app and it will not show up on their record boy you're hitting a

tech side for me and i i guess they could probably do that just because if you're trying to hide something from a lot of people there's always a way to do it hell our kids tend to have a really good job of being able to do this and so adults probably should be able to take a lesson from them the thing that are really striking me about this is that you you know, Vallow, Lori Vallow, she is definitely a skilled conspiracist and a cultist at this stuff. So it doesn't surprise me that she's able to conspire with her now husband to cover her tracks like this because she's been doing it for years. I mean, look at all the debt that surrounds her. So being able to place blame other places and and have covert communications i this just wasn't a one-off this is something she's been doing a very long time

i'm in drink i'm a little surprised at you okay at your choice of words all the death around her you mean all the people she murdered well at least that she's been involved in involved in i mean let's call it like it is man yeah i Yeah, I'm with you. She's not involved in it. She's accused of murdering and conspiring to murder multiple people. And I haven't even gotten to Charles Vallow and her other husband, Joseph Ryan. I mean, there's just so many. And her brother, Alex Cox. But that said, I will argue with Robin Dreek about that later. Speaking of called Mom Lori Vallow being in Hawaii, take a listen to ARCOT 164.

You will hear that the defendant was in Hawaii at the time Tammy died. And you will also hear that less than three weeks later, 17 days to be exact, the defendant and Chad Daybell were back in Hawaii. They were getting married on a sunny beach in Hawaii, dancing and celebrating their life together, while Tylee and JJ were cold in the ground in shallow graves, and while Tammy had just barely been laid to rest in the Springville, Utah cemetery, her hometown. Nate Eaton, please tell me that the state is using those photos of cult mom Lori Vallow and the prophet Chad Daybell dancing on the beach. It looks like they're doing the traditional Hawaiian hula dance.

You're absolutely right but not only that they took it a step further when they ended their closing statement by showing a picture of jj's hands wrapped in duct tape and then what remains of ty lee's bones and flesh and then charles ballo's hands and then they cut to the pictures of a hand of ch and Lori holding them on the beach. And also Tammy's hand. She was a computer whiz. She loved to do family history on her computer. They showed her autopsy photo.

So they painted the picture of how these people will never use their hands again because of the hands of these other two who were on the beach getting married. Tara Malik joining a side profile lawyer out of Idaho where this case is taking place. Tara, that takes a lot of planning. Have you ever been in a trial, because I sure have, where one side, not me, because I practiced into the night to make sure it didn't happen and everything fails. The slides don't work. The recording is out of batteries. The this, the that. Everything goes wrong. There's a reason for that. It's lack of preparation. To pull off what you just heard

Nate Eaton describe, you see the hands of cult mom and the prophet together. Then you see the children's hands. Then you see Tammy Daybell's hands. And the stark dichotomy of that compared to each other. That takes a lot of effort to pull that off seamlessly in court. It really does, and it's very striking. I mean, that is an image and a theme that is going to stick with this jury throughout the trial. And that's what you want

to do as a lawyer. You want to have that impact straight away. Certainly, the facts of this case are outrageous and shocking, to say the least. But there still needs to be a theme and to really bring it home and to hold these folks accountable and say there is a real impact here. We're not talking about, you know, people playing cult and making up stories about demons. We're talking about an actual impact on human lives. To Dr. Jane Gorniak, medical examiner joining us out of Vegas, board certified forensic pathologist. Dr. Gorniak, it's a real honor to have you joining us. Thank Vegas, board certified forensic pathologist, Dr. Gorniak. It's a real honor to have you joining us.

Thank you for being with us. Dr. Gorniak, you have studied what was done to the two children. And before I even get to Tammy Daybell's asphyxiation death, can I ask you this theme that Nate Eaton described of showing the children's and the victims' hands, what would their hands have looked like post-mortem? And I'm talking about the two children first. Wow, that gave me chills when I just heard that. So, yes, especially them being buried. The soil would be wet, but they were there for a while,

so they would be skeletonized. So you'd probably just see bones. You might see some flesh or skin left over, but they would just be, you would know, it'd be obvious that these were hands of dead children. And, of course, little Tylee had been dismembered and burned. All that was left of her was literally a melting

bucket of flesh. Like rendering. You know what rendering is, Jack? That's when you're at a slaughterhouse and you completely tear apart the animal's body. I hate to even talk about it because I know actually I'm talking about a little girl.

And the slaughterhouse uses every part of the animal. Tylee was basically rendered. Dr. Gorniak, you've really seen it all. There must be an entirely different approach in an autopsy room when you are autopsying a child. When children are the victims, Dr. Gorniak, what is the tone in the autopsy room? Well, we treat, obviously, we treat all bodies and all decedents respectfully. But when children are involved, it is really difficult, especially when you know it's not a natural death. So when I say it's shocking that it still surprises me what people can do to other people. But when it's a child and as a mother and as a grandmother, it's just, it's heartbreaking. So in the autopsy room, like we do our job and we do it the best that we can at all times. But when we see children that are, lack of a better word, mutilated or, you know, and we know it's a homicide. It's sad. It's sad.

And, you know, to be a medical examiner, you've got to be tough. And it really came home to me, even after I've cross-examined and direct-examined so many, many medical examiners on the stand during the Alex Murdoch trial, she was a tiny little lady, the chief medical examiner that performed the autopsies on the two bodies of Paul and Maggie Murdoch. And she was under intense attack, intense attack on cross-examination. And that little lady, as she has been called, was just crackling with intelligence. And she bit back at every cross-examination question. I'm so proud of her. And I don't even know her for her strength and her resolute demeanor in the courtroom while under attack. It's not easy. One thing I've learned, and I can't wait to hear Nate Eaton describe this, is, well, I never really wanted to go into the

mind of the so-called prophet Chad Daybell, but I've had to. I've had to look at his 25 plus books about doomsday, about the end of the world, which you kept predicting and predicting and predicting, and then it would pass and didn't happen. But I want you to hear our cut 293, Detective Nathan Duncan describing another message from Daybell to Cult Mom. Listen. From Chad to Lori, dated 7-26-2019 at 8-13 p.m.

And could you read it into the record? Tonight I figured out who I feel like. I'm a grown-up version of Harry Potter, who has to live with the Dudleys in his little space under the stairs. Every few weeks I get to escape and have amazing adventures with my goddess, Lover, but then I have to return to my place under the stairs feeling trapped but i sense permanent freedom is coming i have so many emotions right now i don't even know how to respond to that but i can tell you this if my husband david lynch

described our life with our children and my mother and our cat, dog, and two guinea pigs as living under the stairs with the Dudleys. Has anybody on this panel seen or read Harry Potter? His life was excruciating. Excruciating. Living with his aunt

and her family. They mistreated him. He was a nothing. He was miserable. And he described sex with his, quote, goddess lover as Harry Potter's escape. You know what? I would send him to Lori Vallow, C-O-D, cash on delivery.

He's yours, because I don't want him anymore. To hang with him, I'll find a man that is happy to be with me. I don't find a man that is happy to be with me. I mean, that would have broken Tammy Daybell's heart. An adult Harry Potter, Nate Eaton? Really?

Did the jury hear that? I bet those women were disgusted. Oh, yeah, they heard it. They heard it. They also, what's going to be admitted to evidence, we assume, is this text message novel that chad wrote to laurie he sent it via okay wait wait wait wait see you're doing it again you're just bombarding me i'm drinking out of the fire hydrant what another novel by chad

daybell does the man does he work for a living or just write these novels? Well, he says he was an author, but he changed their names to James and Elena. Well, I wonder who that could be. A steamy love affair talking about them being together. And it's kind of erotic, you could say. OK, wait, wait, wait. I've got to let a wave of repulsion wash over me. Chad Daybell writes, I guess, a mini novel, a novella about who? What are their fake names?

He changes their names to James and Elena. James and Elena. And it describes their sex affair? Yes, it describes them being together. And he calls it the romance novel. And he sent this novel to her on a text message. So it's a long, long text message. Like that's not going to be discoverable.

Yeah, it's part of the police reports and will likely be read in. But this was multiple pages long. Now, wait a minute. When you say... It's kind of erotic, I think maybe you, Nate Eaton, and I have two different ideas about eroticism. The image of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow

having sex together, I do not find erotic at all. Is that what is described? Yes, yes. You could say it was pg-13 I mean it's not quite you know triple x but um I've got it Nancy I'll send it to you if you want to read it after I've complained about it of course I'm going to read it in its entirety but wait a minute Karen Stark please help me Drake I may need you in on this too. Karen Stark and Robin Drake joining us. Karen, psychologist. Robin Drake, FBI behavioral expert.

Okay. Karen. Yes. Do some people get a sexual kick out of writing about their sex lives or about their anticipated sex lives? Oh, without a doubt, Nancy. I mean, just because it just makes them remember being together. And also, it sets the stage for anything that will happen in the future. But what I find even more interesting when we were talking about him being

Harry Potter is that he has these suspicions that he will have some freedom soon, that something will happen. And he's predicting that in a way that Charles, Tammy, whoever is not dead yet will be dead. Okay, Robin Drake, please help me out. You've had to analyze behavior for the FBI. I mean, number one, these two left a trail a mile wide. Like, you don't think on day one I'm going to try to grab all their texts, all their emails,

all their phone calls, anything I can get my mitts on to find out what really happened? I've got at least three dead bodies. Tammy Daybell, little JJ7, and Tylee, a teen girl. Oh, yeah. I'm going to read every shred of evidence i can get my hands on what about this yeah well they're both high-level wound collectors that are seeking retribution for everyone around them and since they both had the sense of control because of the cult they they formed they thought they had complete control over everyone and everything in their purview

so it makes them feel very empowered to do these things okay now let me ask you nate eaton hold on they change your names in the novella to james and elena what about rafael and lily of course you sent it to me i'm already reading it the thing that i said i would never read i'm looking at it right now what about rafael and li? L-I-L-I. Yeah, they constantly have these different names for each other. They were changing their names, going by different aliases. They had code words among the group of when it was safe to talk and when it wasn't, if they thought the police were listening. So the bar was constantly moving, it appears, with this group.

If things weren't going right, if the foretold prophecies didn't come to pass, then the bar would move further out. You know, I'm sorry, Nate, but it's your fault I can't pay attention to anything you're saying because I'm reading this novella. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Tara Malik, high profile lawyer joining us out of Idaho. I hope you're sitting down. Okay, wait. And I quote, he could only giggle when people asked if she was his wife, because yes, in fact, she was. She just didn't know it yet. Wow, that sounds just like Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow.

James is definitely having amorous feelings toward Elena as they sold books together. Who could that be? He had not felt this happy in his entire life. He was quite sure this was the woman The Voice had told him about. James was ecstatic because he had already fallen deeply in love with her. Or better said, he remembered how much he had already loved her. I forgot to tell you, Tara, that was in a previous live. Now, wait, her eyes had mesmerized him from the moment they met. But once the book sales slowed down, she stood near him behind the table. They looked deeply into each other's eyes. And for the first time, he knew he was in the presence of a goddess. Tara, please help me.

I mean, I think we all need help after that novella that he just wrote. I mean, if I am, if I'm the prosecutor and I'm reading through these text messages, I can only imagine, you know, them just jaws agape, you know, and building that case

and the themes of their case immediately after reading through these messages. It's like, you know, and building that case and the themes of their case immediately after reading through these messages. It's like, you know, he's laying the path for his own conviction here. Now, you know, it's going to be tricky because we also want to make sure that we're not using him as a scapegoat and Lori, you know, gets away scot-free here. But it certainly indicates how disturbing and disturbed these individuals were. And, you know, as far as motive and intent, this only adds to the prosecution's case. You know, looking through, I agree with everything you just said, Tara Malik.

I'm just thinking through this. This is like every other couple that cheats on their spouses, and then they both end up dead. Charles Vallow is dead, and Tammy Daybell is dead. And they both had a hand in it. So while we're laughing, and as soon as you read this, oh, the erotic tension continued throughout the afternoon. Okay, this is your fault, Nate Eaton. But they are using the cloak of religion to shroud them

and their fantastical beliefs to shroud them from the truth. And the truth is they are cold-blooded serial killers. Now, I want you to take a listen to our Cut 273. Wait a minute. This is the prosecuting attorney, Lindsay Blake, questioning friend Melanie Gibb. I love friends that record your phone calls. And actually, I'm not kidding around about that, because if Melanie Gibb had not recorded these calls, the state would have a huge gaping hole in their case. So thank heaven that she did record these calls. Now, you're hearing this highly airbrushed version of their cheating.

But here's the reality of it. Listen. Did Lori ever tell you directly that she and Chad would meet at hotels or motels? Yes. And did they actually meet at, did she tell you that they met at hotels? Yes. Did she tell you that they would meet at motels I don't remember the wording exactly one of the two yeah right did Lori ever indicate to you whether or not she and Chad were

engaged in an affair she would just share that they were intimate was this while Charles was still alive yes was this while Charles was still alive? Yes. Was this while Tammy was still alive? Yes. Hotel, motel, holiday inn. So it's not some steamy romance novel. They're just shacking up and getting it on at the local motel. There's no way that somebody didn't tell Tammy Daybell about it. Now, you've heard his airbrushed version of the romance between James and Elena, aka Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow. But what about Charles Vallow? He's shot dead with cult mom standing right there doing nothing. And Tammy Daybell, which brings us back to what's happening in court. Take a listen to Melanie Gibb describing Tammy Daybell's death. years that Tammy would pass away at a young age. And I had no idea that Lori would even be a part of my life.

I just knew that my life had two segments. And I know Tammy's on a special mission and she's with my kids. She's visited them. There's so much, Melanie, that you just have to have faith. And this is not some sort of master plan. There's no way, Lori, and I should never come up with this. I love Melanie Gibb. She recorded this, and as she was on the witness stand, this recording came into court.

You hear the prophet, Chad Daybell, describing how sick the conspiracy theories made him. You know, he tells people she died peacefully in her sleep. Nate Eaton, what was her cause of death? Asphyxiation. Asphyxiation. She no more died of a heart attack in her sleep than I did last night. Take a listen now to our Cut 277. Did she tell you anything about what she knew

regarding Tammy's passing so I asked her what happened to Tammy and she says that she had yes a dark entity in her and they had to do what they could to get this that spirit out of her and when she said they did what they had to do what they could to get this that spirit out of her and when she said they did what they had to do did you know who she was referring to her and her and Chad do you recall if she indicated anything regarding Tammy's knowledge of an affair or suspicion of an affair she said she was starting to get suspicious and by she was starting to get suspicious was that Tammy correct and quite coincidentally Tammy Daybell became a dark spirit about the same time she found out about her

husband's sex affair with cult mom take a listen do you recall if Lori indicated how long Tammy had been suspicious of that before she passed away? I would say no longer than two weeks. Do you recall if Lori indicated how long Tammy had been possessed or dark before she passed away? Maybe. It wasn't more than two weeks. It could have been less than two weeks, but it was a short period of time. So Tammy becoming dark darker possessed and her getting suspicious of the affair to the best of your knowledge happened around the same time about

the fair part i'm not sure but the dark part is yes about two weeks before correct nate eaton from eastidahonews.com how is the jury responding to this jury, many members have been taking frantic notes throughout the entire trial, writing stuff down. Others I've noticed have just stared directly at Lori Vallow. She's sitting directly across from them. They have a view right at her. And there have been times, Nancy, during this trial when they've shown the evidence photos that there have been tears. Some of the jurors have cried seeing the bodies of Tammy and JJ. So it's kind of a mix of emotions. What I haven't seen is any nodding off. I haven't seen any loss of attention. They have been laser focused on every witness thus far. And we wait as testimony unfolds in the courtroom.

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