Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CULT-MOM LORI VALLOW THROWS WRENCH IN MURDER CASE WITH SECRET PHONE RECORDING

Episode Date: January 22, 2021

We now know how Lori Vallow's third husband and her brother, Alex died. The investigations into both mysterious deaths are now closed. The cause of death for her children, Tylee and JJ have not been released to the public. Also new to the case: The defense team is trying to get the prosecutor in the case thrown off the case. Listen as Nancy Grace and her panel of experts analyze the new developments.Joining Nancy Grace today: Ashley Willcott - Judge and trial attorney, anchor at Court TV, www.ashleywillcott.com  Atlanta, GA  Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta, GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert, Founder: Cold Case Investigative Research Institute in Atlanta, GA, ColdCaseCrimes.org, @ColdCaseTips  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network  Eric Grossarth - Reporter, East Idaho News dot com, Instagram/Twitter: @EricGrossarth Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Lori Vallow, cult mom. Will it never end? The line of dead bodies she leaves in her wake? In the last hours, bombshell news in the case of cult mom Lori Vallow and her fifth husband, cult leader Chad Daybell. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. First of all, take a listen to our friends at KIFI. In the recording, you can hear Wood talking to Summer Shifflett, Lori's sister about lori's attorney mark means we're able to put them in jail with a high belt on these lower charges and put together our case our goal is to have such a

strong case that when she has competent counsel i don't know if you know this her attorney's never handled a felony before he's never never done any meaningful criminal work at all and he doesn't know what he's doing he's a nice guy yeah he's lying about me but he uh but he's he doesn't know what he's doing and when once we file further charges she will be appointed counsel who will know what they're doing and our goal is to put together such a case that they're smart enough to say uh it's gonna be better to talk right there you are hearing the prosecutor in the Vallow cult mom case speaking to Summer Shifflett that is a relative of Lori Vallow's And these phone conversations have stirred up a whole pot of trouble with me, an all-star panel, Ashley Wilcott, judge, trial lawyer, Court TV anchor. Find her at

ashleywilcott.com. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Director of the Cold Case Research Institute, crime scene expert, Cheryl McCollum. Also, she is at ColdCaseCrimes.org. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Star of a brand new hit series on the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons. Death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first, I'm going to go to crack reporter with the East Idaho News dot com,

Eric Grossart. Eric, does it never end with this? I mean, explain to me the recording. We just played for everyone. I'm hearing the prosecutor, Mark Wood, speaking to Summer Shifflett. He's saying that Coltman Lori Vallow's current lawyer has never tried a felony. Well, right now, until they charge Lori Vallow with murder, that may not be an issue. But we understand that the prosecutors are this close to a conspiracy to commit murder charge yes no so what we know from this recording this of course was in october 2020 when rob wood went to go speak with summer shifflett laurie's sister and during this conversation it was around 18 minutes rob wood told why was it being recorded? Who's recording it? Eric? So this was actually

recorded by Summer Shiflett's Laurie's sister's attorney Garrett Smith down in Arizona. Why? For whatever reason he decided that he wanted to record this. He said that red flags were popping up in his head during this conversation. He thought it was just going to be

like a meet and greet but it went on for about 18 minutes. Okay, hold on just a second. So he pulled out his phone and recorded it. Guys, Eric, you're a newbie to our program, but it's like everybody at the supper table and everybody has a different opinion. So just buckle up. Cheryl McCollum right there at the get-go. Why are they recording the prosecutor's conversation? I mean, I'm not angry. I'm just curious. Why would you record it and then release it to the media? I'm curious. It just, to me, doesn't sit well with me, Nancy, that anybody would record the prosecutor and then release it. It puts a bad taste in my mouth because it seems to me they're going to go after the prosecutor and make this more about his background and his

fit for trial more than the defendant. Cheryl McCollum, do I need to remind you of the many, many times defendants try to get me thrown off the case as their prosecutor? And you know why? Because I had a bite of their rear end and I was not letting go till the rest of them landed in jail. Bam. Sure they wanted me off the case because they wanted a cheap plea. Well, I'm happy to report it never worked. And you're absolutely right. Back to Eric Grossarth, reporter at EastIdahoNews.com, which is awesome, by the way, especially on this case.

Eric, that's exactly what happened. They got a hold of this prosecutor and put him on trial to get him thrown off the case. What about the two dead bodies? Should we be worried about that? You know, you're exactly right. That is what happened. This recording was not first released to the media. It was actually given to Lori's attorney, Mark Means, and then Chad's attorney, John Pryor.

And they used this to hold a hearing on a motion to disqualify Wood from the case. On what grounds? So this went on forify Wood from the case. On what grounds? So this went on for a day and a half. On what grounds? They were saying that these disparaging comments, is what they were alleging, were influencing Shifflett to whatever his motive was. And they said that this conversation was inappropriate. So the whole day and a half hearing revolved around this 18-minute recording.

What is wrong with this conversation, Ashley Wilcott? I'm going to play some more of what is alleged, but so far I've heard the prosecutor say, hey, her lawyer is not all that in a bag of chips. That's what I'm hearing. That's not a reason to throw the prosecutor off, whether he's wrong or right. You know, you always hear both sides trashing the other side. It always happens. Yeah, it does. And so, you know hear both sides trash and the other side. It always happens. Yeah, it does. And so, you know, what we know is, listen, there are ethical standards that attorneys have to comply with. The prosecutors know different. But does that rise to the level of ethical behaviors that are of concern or evidence of a conflict, which means he would have to not handle the case. In my opinion, no, there's nothing there

other than trash talk, which, although it may not be super professional, happens every day. Well, I mean, maybe I'm guilty. Okay, you know what? I plead guilty. I'll plead it right now. I won't even take the fifth. Cheryl, how many times would you come into the courtroom and say, okay, what's up? And I would say, well, you know, these are the facts, but this lawyer has never handled a murder case or this lawyer, this or blah, blah, blah, or he is not prepared or he's never argued in a pellet case because you're talking is strategy and you're talking about your opponent, not to be published, not to cause them any harm, but you are evaluating the playing field. I don't get it. Not just that, but something I learned from you long ago. Oh dear. It ain't slander if it's true. So if you're simply saying somebody is not all that, they have not had high

profile cases. They haven't tried a hundred cases successfully. That's just facts. Well, we'll find out more with our crack reporter from EastIdahoNews.com. Hey, Jackie, let's play some more of this discussion about how the cult mom Lori Vallow team has tried. They've been doing backbends to get the prosecutor thrown off the case. Take a listen to our cut 21 from our friends Fox 13 there in Utah. Attorneys for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow are trying to get the prosecutor, Rob Wood, thrown off the case for misconduct. That's why they were in court today playing an audio recording of Rob Wood talking to one of the witnesses who has yet to testify. That's Summer Shifflett, Lori Vallow's sister. These photos are with her niece, Tylee Ryan, before she died. Defense attorneys say Wood was trying to manipulate

Shifflett's testimony. In that audio recording, Wood says he has enough evidence to charge both Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow with conspiracy to commit murder, that either one of them could face the death penalty. But then he goes on to give his own opinion of the case, calling Chad Daybell names and making fun of Lori Vallow's attorney. Take a listen. He looked like he was about to pee his pants because he's actually a hungry person. Yeah. He's highly manipulative. Yeah, I see that. Take a listen. He's never done any meaningful criminal work at all, and he doesn't know what he's doing. It's familiar with Idaho law. That defense attorney he's referencing is defense attorney Mark Means. Wood went on to talk about his own LDS faith, which defense attorneys argue is another tactic to intimidate the witness. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, we're talking about the very latest in the cult mom Lori Vallow case. As you know, her children, JJ and Tylee, end up burned, dismembered, and buried on her brand new husband's, basically, in his backyard. Gee, I wonder how that happened. Instead of trying to throw the prosecutor off the case, they need to worry about her case because, according to our sources, prosecutors are on the verge of charging Lori Vallow and her brand new husband, number five, model number five, Chad Daybell, with conspiracy to murder the children. Instead, they get the prosecutor, Woods, on the phone, record his phone call, and then try to get him thrown off the case. Now, you know, Joe Scott Morgan, I'm dying to talk to you about the forensics, but I've got to follow up on this. Ashley Wilcott, judge, trial lawyer, there are ways to get a judge or a prosecutor thrown off the case. For instance, bias on the judge's part, misconduct on the prosecutor's part.

But saying someone is about to pee his pants is not grounds to get them thrown off the case. I don't know anything about the defense lawyer. He could be a great lawyer for all I know, but as you said, this sounds like typical trash talk before a trial, and I don't see it. And talking about your religion, how is that a grounds to get you thrown off the case? I don't think it is, So let me just suggest this. All of us who are trial attorneys know you better have thick skin, Nancy. I have no doubt you got a thick skin because guess what? Just because you're

a trial attorney doing your job doesn't mean you have to demand and complain, wham, because people don't like you or aren't saying good things about you. That has nothing to do about whether or not an attorney is acting and committing misconduct. In this case, again, listening to this, I don't see it. I just think the defense attorneys don't like what the prosecutor's saying about them. It's a stunt. A straight up stunt. Go Cheryl. It's a stunt. That's all it is. Nancy, you taught me a long time ago, when people do not have something they can legally argue, they yell and scream loud. They bang the desk. They make this big production because they ain't got nothing. That's all this is.

The prosecutor is a stellar person with a solid background, so they tried to bring smoke where there was no fire. Yeah, you know what? You're right. You've got to have a thick skin or at least pretend you've got a thick skin to be a felony prosecutor because it's a given. Nobody is going to like you. But as I always say, I didn't go into the law to be crowned Miss Sweet Potato Queen or to win Miss Congeniality.

Neither one of those are ever going to happen. But tell me about it, Eric Grossarth, reporter at eastidahonews.com. They wasted a day and a half of court time on trying to throw the prosecutor off? Yeah, it lasted through one whole day, and it came 5 o'clock, and it was time for the judge to go home. So they had to call back two days later on a Friday, the afternoon, come in and give their closing arguments. And then the judge had to go back into his chambers for about an hour where he came back with his decision that Rob Wood can stay on the case. And we don't know if something like this will happen again. I

know that they're thinking of refiling a motion to reconsider the judge's decision. And then John Pryor, Chad's attorney, has also said that he's going to want to file or have a taint hearing for every single witness because of Rob Wood. All right. You know what? Have at it. But this thing is going to trial. And it seems to me that it's getting bigger and bigger than the deaths of little JJ, just seven years old, seven years old. You know, the other day, Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist in Atlanta, I got as a gift for Christmas. Everybody knows I don't want anything, but they know how to get to me

with photos of the twins. And a friend made one of those photo, I guess, cubes. You plug it in and it goes for about an hour of Christmas photos of the twins through the years. Well, I put it right by my favorite chair where I read the news every morning. And when I was looking at them at about that age, seven, I started crying. They're so tender and wonderful and innocent. And we know also J.J. had a handicap of sorts, which makes him even more vulnerable. To think that somebody could kill that child and bury them, essentially in the backyard in the pet cemetery. It's just, no wonder they're trying, as Cheryl Cullum said,

screaming and kicking to point at the prosecutor because they don't want anybody to point at them. Right, it sounds like they're trying to make every distraction they can to keep things away from them because what they did to those children is so horrific. And didn't they also dismember their bodies, Nancy? I know they did, Tylee, and you're bringing me to a good point. And, yes, I'm jumping the gun, and I know that. Hold on, Eric Grossarth. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics and renowned death investigator.

Wait, Eric, where are the bodies? Let me get that from you. Yeah, so back to that audio recording. Rob would tell Summer that Tylee's body is actually at an FBI lab. We know her body was burned and dismembered. So they're trying to figure out how she died. You know what? I know a lot of people get comfort from going to the cemetery where their loved ones are buried. It breaks my heart to go anywhere near my father's cemetery. But even worse than that, thinking that his remains were being dissected and pulled apart still at the FBI lab.

But Joe Scott Morgan, the FBI, the feds have to do it. Why? These bodies have a tale to tell, Nancy. What? The bodies, they have a tale to tell. And that's why these bodies have to be examined so very closely. And it's going to tell a tale. It's going to tell a tale of, uh, the bodies, uh, not just how they died, but what occurred afterwards.

And I can tell you this blocking motion, which is essentially what this was, they're screaming and yelling, as Cheryl had mentioned earlier, because let me tell you something. When the rubber meets the road in this case and they start putting the pictures of what was done to these children, both antemortem before death and postmortem afterwards. It's going to be shocking because in my mind, at least, you know, if we just talk about Tylee alone, her body, from what we can gather at this point, not only was her body burned, okay, in that fire pit, you know, that we know about right there, there was an attempt made. She had also prior to that been dismembered. Now, to what degree, I don't know. On Chad Daybell's property, the fire pit, right,

Eric? That's what we believe. Investigators are believing that Kylie was burned on the property nearby where they found her body. And Nancy, if you, and my best guess, having covered this case now for, I don't know how long, when the first day

when I saw this thing I was thinking you know something happened in those immediate those sheds that are immediately adjacent to the fire pit you know there's like a barn and outdoor structure that's not that far away and my suspicion is is that maybe some level of dissection or dismemberment took place in there and attempt. And there's also a very stark reminder about how Tylee's body was treated as opposed to JJ's. You know, JJ's, though his death was tragic and horrible, he was kind of reposed in this area adjacent to this empty pond or whatever it was, this depressed area. But Tylee's, Nancy, she was treated in such a subhuman manner. There was even a melted bucket that was thrown in there.

And I suspect that there were probably remains of some kind in that bucket as well. You know, maybe. It sounds like a slaughterhouse. It does. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, in the last hours, new updates. In the case of cult mom Lori Vallow and her fifth husband, cult leader Chad Daybell, right now we still don't even have a cause of death on Tylee, 17-year-old Tylee, because her body was burned and dismembered. Do we have a COD cause of death on JJ, Eric? You know, that's still the question. That stuff has not been released

publicly yet, and likely if charges that rise to the level of murder those are filed, we'll likely find out in later court. Guys, the very latest is the defense, Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell's defense have tried to throw out the prosecutor assigned to the case based on a phone call that they, the defense, had recorded. It was Lori Vallow's sister, Summer Shifflett, and her lawyer recorded the prosecutor on the phone and tried to use that as a grounds to get him thrown off the case. It didn't work. But there's more brewing than their attempt to throw out the prosecutor.

Take a listen to our friends at KSL-TV, our Cut24. In addition to the children's deaths, Alex Cox has been linked to the deaths of Charles Vallow, Tammy Daybell, as well as an attempted murder. But tonight, we're getting a better idea of what happened in December 2019 the day he died just three months after Tylee and JJ's murders. Alex Cox racked up criminal charges long before his involvement in the deaths of Tylee Ryan and J.J. Vallow. Not that mean I'm a felon. Material he used for his stand-up comedy shown in this 2010 YouTube video. So while I was in jail, I also had a religious experience.

I found Jesus. I found Jesus. I all of, and Jesus first. See you now. Well, of course, I don't like Jesus jokes, but there is Alex Cox, now dead, joking about doing something that seems right at the time that turns into a felony. And what was that felony, Eric Gross Arthur? Yeah, so years ago, Joe is alleged to, Lori had three or five husbands, right? Her third husband, Joe Ryan. Alex is alleged to have taken a taser or some sort of stun gun and actually attacked Joseph Ryan with this. Now he ends up shooting the fourth husband, Vallow, when Vallow's coming to see his children. He shoots him dead.

But now we have him. It's not just alleged, Eric. He did jail time. He was convicted of the assault on Lori Vallow's third husband, Joseph Ryan, who's dead under natural causes and cremated like that.

That decision was made by Lori Vallow to get rid of his body. Take a listen to our friends at KPNX TV12. New details in the twisted case involving Lori Vallow Daybell. Tonight, an Idaho judge denied her request to take the current prosecutor off of the case. Vallow Daybell's legal team accused the prosecutor of misconduct after a bombshell recording was released earlier this week. In it, you can hear him discussing the case with Lori's sister, claiming that he was going to

charge Lori and her husband, Chad Daybell, with conspiracy to commit murder. The prosecutor also said there is a chance he could pursue the death penalty. Those charges have not been filed at this time. Chad and Lori's joint trial is set to begin in July. That joint trial, throwing them both in the same pot to stew, is set for July. So where does Alex Cox, who you're just hearing in a stand-up, factor into this? What part did he play in the deaths of those children? And is there a valid connection to other deaths? Take a listen to Garner Mejia, KSL TV News, Cut 25. Religion came up again the day Cox died.

He's not breathing. New docs from the Gilbert, Arizona police department show the day he died cox got a blessing over the phone by a quote friend who east idaho news reports was really chad daybell it was a friend who alerted his new wife zulema pastines to check on him really bad come up there in the back but then things Pastinez wanted officers to leave her house. She asked detectives if she was considered a suspect in Cox's death, to which they answered no. So she told detectives Cox was struggling with shortness of breath for about a week. He'd gone to Algodones, Mexico to pick up some prescriptions because they were cheaper, but his breathing didn't improve.

And the night before he died, he refused to go to the doctor. While Pastenas seemed to downplay her connection to Daybell and Lori Vallow, her daughter told detectives Pastenas met the very religious Cox through Vallow, his sister calling them good friends who attended the same LDS church and preppers for the end of the world. Now, a medical examiner's report ruled Cox's death to natural causes. Now we know the bombshell is that Lori Vallow's brother, Alex Cox, death ruled natural causes. There is something way wrong with this. Eric Grossarth, reporter, EastIdahoNews.com.

Are you telling me that Alex Cox is on the phone with, we think, Chad Daybell, cult mom's fifth husband, just before he dies? Yeah, the day that he died, he was on some sort of phone call with Chad Daybell where he got some sort of blessing from Chad. There was obviously some sort of concern going there and he had some poor health issues in the days leading up to his death. So who did he call? Chad Daybell. You know, Cheryl McCollum, these two, Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell,

are all up in so many deaths. You need a chart to keep up. I made a chart. Okay. Well, you need one. And here's the thing that is so unbelievable about this. You think you've got bad health and you may be dying. And the person you choose to call is somebody that says the world ain't going to make it

no hell and everybody's a zombie and you've got, you know, dark spirits. So that's odd to me this whole thing is odd to me and the fact they had him cremated so fast means there's nothing to test so they can't come back and tell us where this was natural or not. Ryan was cremated the third husband husband model number three for Lori Vallow, Eric Grossart, was Alex Cox cremated? Yeah, Alex's body was cremated as well, of course, after an extensive autopsy that I got the report actually in May 2020 of that. But they did cremate his body after they conducted this autopsy and sent actually toxicology reports and samples off to another lab across the country. Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator.

I want you to take a listen to our cut 27, Alex Cox's 911 call just before he dies. How old is he? He seems to be in his 40s. Okay. Do you know him? No, it's my mother's boyfriend. Okay. And how old are you? I'm 25. Okay.

I have the paramedics on the way, so he's in the restroom right now. Okay. Gilbert, can we get you started? I'm already around. All right. Thank you. Okay. Is he on his back or on his stomach? Where is he at? He's on his side. Okay. Can you lay him flat on his back or on his stomach? Where is he at? He's on his side. Okay.

Can you lay him flat on his back on the ground? I'll try. It's just there's feces there, and I'm trying to just keep cool right now. You said he's what? There's feces on the ground. Okay. I know that's gross, but if we can just go ahead and get him flat on his back, I want to make sure he's breathing, because if he's not, we're going to do a few things.

You hear it, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator. We know that Alex Cox, who tased husband number three, who shot husband number four of Lori Vallow's, who was transporting and taking part in the deaths of the two children, suddenly out of the blue dies? Could this have been caused by some kind of poison? Is there any explanation for this that is not natural causes? I think that the case that the ME has laid out, which is very detailed, seems to point toward natural deaths. I think my biggest question is, did they screen for everything that they could possibly screen for relative to toxicology? You know, when I looked at the tox report, Nancy, on him, the only two things that came up positive were Narcan, which they apparently bumped him up with when they rolled onto the scene, because

for some reason they thought that maybe this was an opiate related event. I had heard at one point in time that he was kind of frothing at the mouth. This is called a pulmonary edematous cone that comes out of the nose and mouth. And sometimes this is associated with a drug OD. So they popped him with a Narcan. He also had caffeine, but they tested for all these other things, but nothing like really exotic. You know, one thing that came to mind for me was potentially a date rape drug. Was there something that could have been given to him that would have sent him into a respiratory decline that would not have been detected. And now at this point, Tom, he has in fact been cremated. So we can't go back and revisit that. But let me revisit one more thing with you, Nancy. The last time JJ was seen, and I'm doing huge air quotes here, alive, was resting upon Alex Cox's shoulder, walking through that house, dead asleep after he had earlier been seen crawling up on the counters and cabinets and acting,

you know, completely out of control. But yet the last time this child was seen was with Alex, and he was completely oblivious and passed out. Now, you and I both obviously have kids. We've seen kids pass out and just dead to the world. They've run and they've run and they've run. But I find it very curious that JJ was last seen with Alex as well. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, updates. Bombshell news in the case of cult mom Lori Vallow and husband model number five, Chad Daybell, the cult leader number one.

A courthouse coup attempt was made by the defense to throw the prosecutor off the case. After an elongated hearing, the judge says no, denied. Now we know that brother Alex Cox, who cult mom Lori Vallow referred to as her, quote, avenging angel, dead by natural causes. I find it really hard to believe Eric Grossart, the reporter, East Idaho News dot com, all over this story that he has trouble breathing for a week. Refuses to go to a doctor and then get some kind of drugs from Mexico and kills over debt. Now, how that equals natural causes, I'm not sure, but I'm not an MD. I'm just a JD. Let's take a listen, Eric Grossarth, to Erica Stapleton, KP and Exarcut20. Recordings reveal Lori talking about murdering her third husband, Tylee's dad.

I was going to murder him. I was going to kill him, like the scriptures say. I just thought I couldn't take it anymore. The more you dig into this case, the more you start to unravel, you realize a lot of people connected to Lori are dead. That includes her third ex-husband. He died from an apparent heart attack, but Phoenix police are reviewing that case. Chandler police are also looking into the death of her fourth ex-husband after Lori's brother shot and killed him. Lori's brother is also dead. Gilbert police are looking into his death. And then there's Chad

Daybell's first wife. Police are also reviewing her sudden and unexpected death. And then there's Chad Daybell's first wife. Police are also reviewing her sudden and unexpected death. And then there's the death of her kids, Tylee and JJ. No one knows why they're dead. And of course, that's the biggest question of all. So let me understand this here at GrossSouthEastIdahoNews.com. Alex Cox, dead of heart attack. Joseph Ryan, Valo husband model 3, dead of heart attack, Joseph Ryan, Vallow husband model three, dead of heart attack, and Tammy Daybell, Chad Daybell's wife. He married Lori Vallow about two weeks after

he buried his wife. She died of an apparent heart attack. Let me focus on Joseph Ryan for a moment. What can you tell me about the investigation into his death? Yeah, so that audio recording that you just played surfaced and that hit the news. We did a story on it. I know that Joseph Ryan's sister, Annie Cushing, you've talked to her before. She kind of threw an uproar about it and Phoenix Police said, okay, we're going to review the case, go over everything that we have. They can, of course course do an autopsy because he was cremated but they reviewed their notes and other things and other evidence and photos and everything like that and i was told that they have completed their investigation and his cause of death remains the same this apparent heart attack

he died of natural causes who made the decision to cremate husband number three? Who made the decision? I would probably defer to Annie and what she said in the last time you talked to her is she believes it was the state. Lori didn't really have any contact with Joseph Ryan that we know of during that time. A lot of people are dropping dead and getting cremated. So I understand what you're telling me, Eric Grossarth, is that Joseph Ryan's investigation is closed. But if you look at the circumstances surrounding his death, Cheryl McCollum, he wanted to see his daughter, okay? Tylee. Tylee, who's now dead. There was a big controversy about him seeing his daughter. At one point, Tylee reportedly said he had molested her. She later recanted and said she was coached to say that.

Then suddenly, we find Joseph Ryan dead in his own bed, decomposing, and been dead for days on end. He gets cremated. Lori Vallow knew he was dead and did not alert his family, according to his family. Yet somehow that has been named another death by natural causes? It seems like all these pieces of this puzzle are painting a picture that cannot be denied. Anybody that's got facts and evidence that she has done something wrong,

whether it's concealing a murder or not taking care of the children the way that she should or getting the children to make these statements or getting her brother to potentially shoot a husband. You can't keep saying something is natural when you can't prove it any longer because they got rid of the evidence. And incidentally, these cremations that are happening so quickly, she knows that gets rid of evidence. That's exactly what happened to Tylee. So JJ was not set on fire, but Tylee was for days. Remember the neighbor that said they thought they were doing a bonfire over a period of days? This was not fast. This was not quick. This has been going on with this woman for years. You know, you're right. The only person alive from the day that Charles Vallow was killed is now Lori Vallow Daybell. Take a listen to our friend Nate Eaton, East Idaho News, Cut 18. The day that her husband, Charles, was shot in Arizona by her brother,

of course, he said he did it in self-defense, Charles was coming at him with a baseball bat, and so he had to go get a gun to protect himself. Well, Charles was an athlete. So if he's going to go in and swing with a bat, he's not going to miss. And if you've seen the security or the body camera footage, if you've seen the body camera footage from the police that day, Alex is dabbing the back of his head as if he's been hit with something sharp,

maybe, because he's dabbing for blood. Well, a baseball bat likely isn't going to leave a little ping on the back of your head. Tylee was in the house that day. J.J. was in the house that day. They likely witnessed what happened. What we do know is that after that shooting happened, Lori took JJ to school. As her husband lay dying in the front room, she takes her son to school and then returns back. And that's when Tylee and Lori spoke with the police. But yeah, the people that were in the

house that day, the only one surviving right now, the only one that saw it all play out is Lori, and she's not talking to the police. What about Tammy Daybell? Chad Daybell's wife, healthy as a horse, preparing to run a marathon race, dies in her sleep shortly after she has made allegations her husband, Chad Daybell, is having an affair with cult mom Lori Vallow, according to reports. What's happening with that, Eric? Has she just been lost in the sauce? You know, they exhumed her body in December 2019, and they're still telling us they're waiting for autopsy results. This has been over a year. This has been 13 months now that they are still telling us that they're waiting for autopsy results. We don't know what happened that day other than Chad called 911 and they found

Tammy dead. That's all we know. Where do his children stand on that? Tammy Daybell's children? You know, they aren't really talking right now. They've kind of stayed their personal lives throughout all of this, which is understandable. But from what we know is some of her kids have lived in the house where Tammy died since then. But other than that, it's a big mystery. And I think that's some of the questions that people are hoping to be answered over the next coming months. Nancy.

Jump in. Yeah. I got gotta tell you, when it comes to Tammy Daybell, do you recall what I said about Alex earlier, where I mentioned the frothy edematous cone? One of the reports with Tammy, when the kids came into the room, what did they see? Well, one of the kids actually said there was froth coming from Tammy from mommy's mouth and nose or from mom's mouth and nose. And this gives me an indication that she's in some kind of congestive failure where her lungs are troubled, all right, where she is distressed in some way from a respiratory standpoint. Now, how does this healthy woman, and as you put it, she was training to run in a race.

How does she suddenly die, you know, overnight? And how are they having this awareness? You know, and the coroner didn't even bother to come to the scene on this case. This is one of the things that really rubs me in the wrong way because one of the things I do in academia is study coroners. And the thing that you have to do with a found death is go to the scene and examine the body. I think that the coroner actually went to the funeral home. But then they said, well, it appears natural. It appears natural.

And they released her. And this is the problem. Anytime you move a body across state lines and her body was buried in Utah, keep that in mind, body has to be embalmed. OK, but they still have a body, all right? They buried her and she was in the ground for a while. I'm thinking that the Utah State Medical Examiner down in Salt Lake City is really playing this close to the vest because they are working with the police very carefully. I'm not saying that they're not still exploring things, but I think that they're holding back on releasing any further information

until they have exhausted every possibility. And I think that this is going to drop in a big way when they come out with this information relative to Tammy. Because, listen, hey, Alex is gone. The third husband is gone. You know, there's nothing left behind. There's nothing left behind that we can further examine. Now, Tammy, it ain't much to examine because she's been embalmed and she was in the ground for a while.

But, you know, by golly, we've got a body and we have examined it. And not to mention it's been examined by one of the top state medical examiners in the nation, Nancy. There's information here. I guarantee it. Long story short, tick tock, tick tock. When, if ever, will there be murder charges against Lori Vallow and husband number five, cult leader Chad Daybell? But remember this, they're behind bars. Why rush the state? This takes time. If the defense wanted to race ahead, they could file a demand for speedy trial and go on trial. They don't want to go forward either. What's the state doing? What's the holdup? We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.