Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cult Mom Lori Vallow Tries to Flee Courtroom, Shock Photos of Her Burned Children

Episode Date: April 13, 2023

Cult Mom Lori Vallow asks the judge to be allowed to leave the courtroom as photos of the decomposing bodies of her two children are shown to the jury.  The judge denied the request. Vallow then turned away from the scene, keeping her eyes shut during the display. Rexburg Police Detective Ray Hermosillo testified that 16-year-old Tylee’s body had been burned and destroyed, with the tissue remains placed in a partially melted plastic green bucket. JJ was wrapped in plastic, sealed by tape.  The search was reportedly so intense that officers got down on their "hands and knees" while digging. The smell, Hermosillo said, was so overpowering that officers had to rotate, and even then, one could only dig for just a few minutes.    Joining Nancy Grace Today:  David Leroy-Attorney at Law (Boise, ID), Former Idaho Attorney General, Former Idaho Lieutenant Governor & Former Prosecutor (Ada County); Facebook: BoiseCriminalDefense Dr. Dana Anderson- Forensic Psychologist, Forensic Expert, California Superior Court appointed Witness; Twitter: @psychologydrcom, TikTok: @psychologydr  Rich Robertson-Arizona based Private Investigator for Brandon Boudreaux and Larry & Kay Woodcock; Owner of R3 Investigations Dr. Priya Banerjee- Board Certified Forensic Pathologist, Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting; Twitter: @Autopsy_MD Leah Sottile- Journalist;  Author: "When the Moon Turns to Blood: Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell, and a Story of Murder, Wild Faith, and End Times;" Podcasts: "Two Minutes Past Nine" & "Bundyville;" Twitter: @Leah_Sottile, Instagram: @leah.sottile See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Damning evidence pouring from the witness stand in the trial of cult mom Lori Vallow. The jury has just heard a very disturbing phone call where husband number, what is it, Jackie, number four or five? I'm just going to go with four. Husband number four, the prophet Chad Daybell is speaking to Lori Vallow as authorities frantically search his farm and are honing in on a so-called pet cemetery, looking desperately for the remains of little seven-year-old JJ and teen sister Tylee, and you hear him in a tapped phone call talking to cult mom saying, I'm feeling pretty calm. Well, I bet they're not calm right now. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Jackie, I'd like to start off with those calls. Now listen, they're very grainy.

So listen to Chad Daybell speaking to Lori Vallow. Yeah. And the name is? So, Mark means we'll be talking to you. Okay. Well, are they in the house? No, they're out on the property. Are they feeding, sir? Again? They're searching. property okay I've got to bring in our It's James. on a story of murder, wild fate, and end times. The Star Podcast, two minutes past nine in Bundyville. Leah Satili is joining us. She's been on this story from the very beginning.

And remember, it's not a story I misspoke. This is real. You couldn't make this up. Leah, you know, if my husband, David, called me and said, police are searching the property. What? Why are police searching our property? I'm on the way right now. These two didn't seem at all concerned.

Hey, Leah Satilli, have you ever seen cops? You know, isn't that the name of it? Bad boys, bad boys, yeah, that. And there'll be a guy sitting in his easy chair in the den having a beer, and all of a sudden, cops start running through, pursuant to search warrant, of course, and he just keeps drinking the beer. It's nothing new to him. Cops have been in his house searching many, many times, obviously, so he just sits there and keeps watching TV. It's like these two.

Nobody seems surprised that the cops are there tearing up his property. Yeah, I think that, you know, it's a sobering phone call in the way that this case, the entire case is sobering at the lack of urgency that Chad and Lori had at all the seeming emergencies that the rest of us can recognize were happening around them. And you hear in this phone call, Chad and Lori picking their words very carefully. It makes me think, you know, at that point, Lori was in jail and this phone call was, they maybe knew this phone call was being recorded. They're being very careful about what they're saying. But yeah, I mean, I agree with you. If somebody said they were searching the property, you'd think, well, for what? So there's a profound lack of panic in Lori Vallow's

voice. That's a really good way to put it, a profound lack of panic. You know, I want to go to Rich Robertson, Arizona-based private investigator for Brandon Boudreaux and the grandparents, owner of R3 Investigations. Rich Robertson, do you hear their voices? You know what, Rich, hold on. Let me play call number two. I've got more. Listen. I'm glad you called. Okay. Okay. Do you want me to pray uh yeah pray what about it rich robertson well i agree with leah the the lack of urgency in both of them i think is is because they both know that this is a recorded phone call from lori being in jail. So they're using somewhat coded language between the two of them. But I think what struck me the most was how uncharismatic

Chad Daybell sounds to me. He just kind of comes across as a dim bulb. You know, I'm just trying to take in the sound of their voices. This is exactly what the jury is hearing. I've got one more call. Let's take a listen. I would call Mark, though, and see him. And just talk with him. Have you talked to him already? I did call him, yes. So he knows what they're doing? Yes.

It's like I called from somebody else and he's like, I love you so much. Should I try to call you later? I don't know. I don't know. You can try. I'll answer by hand. Okay. I love you and I'll talk soon. Okay, baby.

I love you. Okay. Love you. Be nice. Which brings me to the question, was it all worth it? Was it all worth it to have your sham marriage so you could, what, sleep with Lori Vallow, the cult mom? Was it worth it? And the backdrop to hearing this calm phone conversation is that her two children are missing. Of course, now we know dead in Chad Daybell's backyard. Right now, the jury is hearing evidence. The cases have been severed. In other words, Daybell and Lori Vallow's cases are going

to be tried separately. Don't know if this jury is ever going to even see Chad Daybell. That said, Lori Vallow is taking the plunge. First, that's her doing because she filed a demand for speedy trial, which she never withdrew. And that is why her case is going now. Leah Satili joining us, a well-known journalist and author. Leah, what is her, cult mom Lori Vallow's, demeanor in court? You know, it's been two things. For the most part, when she gets there in the morning, she's smiling, she's kind of flipping her hair, sort of giggling as the officers that

bring her in chain her feet to the floor and kind of, you know, participate in this process of shackling her. But when it changed it changed dramatically when we saw the photos of JJ and Tylee, the autopsy photos, they were absolutely harrowing. She did not want to be in the courtroom. And all of a sudden she changed, she crossed her arms, she turned her body away. So no one in the courtroom, probably besides the judge could see her face and slowly she kind of crumpled onto one arm and it looked to me I couldn't see her face but it did look to me like she fell asleep. Fell asleep? Was she just closing her eyes or did she actually fall asleep? Hard to know I couldn't see her face but she was very still and sitting in the same position for quite a while, probably 20,

30 minutes or more. So yeah, hard to know. But it was pretty profound that when she didn't get her way to leave the courtroom that she, you know, the whispering, the talking, the smiling at her attorney stopped completely. And she just sort of folded into herself in her chair. Now, when you said she wanted to leave the courtroom, I thought you meant she acted like she wanted to leave. Are you saying she made an official request to leave the courtroom during the trial? She did, yes. So in the morning, we were hearing from Detective Ray Hermosillo with the Rexburg Police Department who discovered, was one of the officers that discovered the bodies of the children on Chad Abel's property. And it was pretty clear what we were leading up to. We were going was quite a bit of frenzy in the courtroom where the attorneys went back into a private hallway with Lori.

The prosecutors joined them. You know, there was a lot of buzz about what maybe was going to happen. And then arguments were presented to the judge why the defendant, why Lori, did not want to stay in the courtroom. Her attorneys argued that her mental health was very fragile, as we know, because this case has been delayed so much. But she, yes, she didn't want to be there. She didn't want to be there for this extremely difficult thing to see, you know, for everyone. She didn't want to sit there and look. And to be honest, I don't think she did ever look at the screen to see those photos. So I was going to ask you, Leah Satili, who has been in the courtroom from the very beginning.

Leah, I have never seen a defendant's feet chained to the floor. Was that in front of the jury? Did the jury see the chains? The jury could not. So it was pretty interesting. In other cases I've covered, you hear the ankle shackles of the defendant being brought in and they kind of clink and that sort of thing. She had some kind of, there was some sort of fabric around this chain, so it didn't make any noise. So essentially she

was brought into the courtroom. She would go and stand at the table, the defendant's table, and an officer would affix that fabric-covered chain to a loop on the ground. And then the jury would come in. As far as I know, I don't think that the jury could see underneath the table that she was sitting at. So I don't think they could see that she is chained. You know, certainly her hands aren't. I find that really unusual, Leah Satilli. They must consider her some sort of a flight risk. Well, it's a murder trial. So I don't know. I mean, it's also Idaho. You know, things are things are a little different there. So maybe somebody else would be able to speak to that.

Well, it may be different, but they are still governed by the U.S. Constitution. And that includes the case law that has interpreted it. So, David Leroy, joining me, high-profile lawyer, joining us out of Idaho, the former Idaho Attorney General and former Lieutenant Governor. David Leroy, thank you for being with us. I've never seen a defendant shackled in any way in front of a jury. In fact, I, as the prosecutor who knew beyond even a shadow of a doubt the defendant was guilty of, let's just say, murder, I would go to great pains to make

sure the jury never saw the defendant in shackles, handcuffs, and a jail uniform. Absolutely not, because that could later affect the appeal. I think I cared more about it than anybody else in the courtroom, because I did not want to fight for a true verdict and then have a reversal on appeal because the jury saw a pair of handcuffs. Well, this is very unusual, even in Idaho, way out here in the West. Look, I don't like people talking like Idaho is some backwater swampland. Idaho is no different than any other state in the Union. And Idaho is subject to all of the interpretations of the Constitution that have been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. This is, Nancy, very unusual. The defense has the right to have ordinary street clothing for the defendant.

They've not apparently chosen to do that here. The shackles, I don't know whether were debated between the judge, the prosecution, and the defense, but I wouldn't think that she's particularly a flight risk. And so it is unusual, and I have no explanation for why that's being done in this particular case. Well, David Leroy why that's being done in this particular case. Well, David Leroy, let's think this thing through. We already know that she threw a fit when the judge would not let her leave during the trial. And can I tell you something? The judge is right, because if she had been allowed to leave during the trial later on appeal, if there is conviction, she could argue, I missed part of my trial. That's unconstitutional.

I have a right to be there for every single thing that happens. And she would be right. Oh, absolutely. She has to stay for her trial. Judge Boyce has manifested the excellent control of this courtroom. Our Idaho criminal rule 43 gives the defendant both the right and the responsibility to be present at all significant stages of a felony case. So the judge, I agree with you, did the right thing in exercising his sound discretion not to allow her to be removed from the courtroom. That exchange between defendant and lawyer about a piece of evidence, about an objection, about something that comes up in the courtroom takes instants or seconds. And if she's not there, that's an appealable issue. Well, here's another thing, David Leroy.

Let's follow this train of thought through to its logical conclusion. We know that cult mom Lori Vallow wants desperately to get out of the courtroom. She doesn't want to see photos of her dead children, burned, buried, entirely reduced to literally a bucket of burned fat. She doesn't want to see that. Well, I would argue she should have thought about that before she had them killed. But that said, can't you just see her making a break for it in the middle of the presentation? and that would lead to a mistrial, a hung jury, a problem, a reversal. So maybe those shackles, which to her benefit are covered in fabric and obscured from the jury's vision, is actually saving her from another trial and from some outburst that

she would very likely produce in court. I think it's also important from the prosecution's point of view for the jurors who are having dreadful personal reactions to this horrific evidence to see Lori's reaction to that horrific evidence. She has been manifesting atypical emotions all the way through this thing from the first appearances on. To observe her in this context, I think was probably important for the prosecution. Arguably, I guess the defense could try to make some kind of argument based on that, but it's pretty thin soup. You know, to Leah Satili joining us, who has been covering the case as it unfolds, is she wearing street clothes or no?

She is. She is wearing street clothes. That day she was wearing sort of a powder pink blouse and a pair of trousers. She came back after losing this fight to leave the courtroom with a sweater on that she sort of hugged around her body. So, yeah, she is wearing street clothes though. Was there any argument between the lawyers in front of the judge regarding her wearing leg shackles? No, I haven't heard it. If that happened, it would have happened before the trial started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the trial of cult mom Lori Vallow, and it's been a long time coming.

You know, to Dr. Dana Anderson joining us, forensic psychologist, expert, and you can find her at psychologydoctor.com. Dr. Anderson, thank you for being with us. as well as the murder of her new husband's last wife, not wanting to, refusing to look at the photos of her dead children's remains. And that's all they are, remains. You know, I've seen this as I interview defendants in custody. They do not want to be confronted with the truth, especially when they know she's created this delusion, this sort of narcissistic delusion, and she's to avoid personal responsibility. Narcissists don't want to be confronted with the truth. They're just going to deny it. They'll gaslight you.

They don't want to look at anything that you confront them with because underneath that tightly wound delusion that they've created, they, underneath that, that's, we don't want to expose who they really are. Because when you break that down, underneath there, those emotions that they're compartmentalizing right now, underneath there, there's anger, rage. There's other things. They don't want to be revealed. So her escape route is not looking at it and denying that it exists. She's still telling herself, like her narcissistic side of herself, that this didn't happen.

She's just going to deny it and compartmentalize all her emotions. And so to look at it would make her confront what really happened to her children. And she doesn't want to do that. Jackie, let's go to cut 161. Now, this is what cult mom Lori Vallow refuses to look at. Take a listen. 161. She's found buried in a shallow grave on Chad Daybell's property. And when I say she's found, what I mean is what was left of Tylee was found.

Charred remains. That's what was left of Tylee was found. Charred remains. That's what was left of Tylee. You will hear it described as a mass of bone and tissue. That's what was left of this beautiful young woman, the defendant's daughter. You will also hear how Tylee's DNA was recovered on a pickaxe and shovel located in a shed on defendant Daybell's property. Okay, straight back to Lisa Tilly. That's new evidence to many people that have been watching this case unfold. body tissue, her DNA was found on a pickaxe and a shovel on husband number four, the prophet Chad Daybell's property. Could you explain where that was found? What could you tell us?

Yeah, that was new information for me to hear too. It sort of was a part of this amalgam of material that we received in the courtroom, which was that this pickaxe had someone's highly DNA. And then we were then also presented, obviously, with the photos of what her remains look like. I mean, you said the word remains earlier, and that even seems like a generous term for what we saw. It was just, you know, I've been a journalist for 20 years, and it was one of the most difficult things I've ever seen. It was just, it was horrible to see what was the state of what was left of Ty Lee. And I think there's a lot to be unpacked there about, you know, who could do

this? Who could reduce a teenage girl to this sort of state. For those of you that don't know, I will let Rich Robertson, PI, who has worked tangentially on this case, describe exactly what is a pickaxe. Well, it's a digging device that has a pointed end on one side and kind of a shovel-like on the other end. So it's used for digging through ground and digging holes. And breaking rock. Breaking rock on one end. There's the sharp end of a pickaxe where you break up rock and dirt

and objects that are hard to break apart. And the other end is kind of like a mini shovel. And on an object like a pickaxe is this little girl's body tissue. I'll tell you another reason that cult mom Lori Vallow doesn't want to look at the pictures that are going to be displayed in court that are being displayed right now. And so help me, Lord in heaven, I would put those pictures up and I would leave them up the entire time for cult mom Lori Vallow to take a good look at what she had done to her children. Take a listen now to our cut 202. This is Detective Ray Hermosillo from the Rexburg Police. I want you to hear how he describes finding Tylee's body. As we began digging, we were on our hands and knees. We started to uncover just burnt flesh, charred bone.

The smell was, again, of a decomposing body. We had to take turns digging because the smell was so bad. We could only dig for a couple minutes. Eventually we uncovered bits and pieces of Tylee, who we assumed was Tylee, that had been burned. There were pieces of bone, like I said, charred flesh. Just the best I can describe is just globs of flesh that were falling apart. Globs of flesh that were falling apart.

Now, that is what is left of Tylee. Globs of flesh that were falling apart. To Leah Sotile, was that flesh that was once the body of this little girl shown to the jury it was yeah what what you could make of it i mean it was a sort of a thing i think that would be unrecognizable to you know all of you most all of humanity you know you don't quite know what you're looking at and then it's described to you and that sort of settles in that these, you know, masses, as he described, these pieces, bone shards sticking out of the dirt, these are Tylee. When the jury saw the remains of Tylee, which I've been told was basically a bucket of burned flesh, how did the jury react? They were, it was hard to tell. I mean, nobody in that courtroom wanted to look at that, you know, obviously, and they were. I give them credit for that. I did notice one juror got very red in the face and uh sort of at a certain point started just sort of looking um

out into the courtroom instead of at the screen you know became very those are those things being up there on the screen became very difficult for everyone to to you know keep your eyes on what were the other jurors doing they They were looking. They were taking notes. They were, you know, I got to say this jury is pretty stoic, you know, but it seemed clear to me that they were, the reality of this case was setting in. You know, I think that there had been plenty of evidence up to that point that was clear what we were hearing about. But seeing these photos, the photos of Tylee, the photos of JJ, I think that you started to hear a lot of sniffles in the courtroom at that point. And I don't know that that was some of the jury, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was. We learn more about the remains of this beautiful teen girl,

cult mom Lori Vallow's girl, Tylee. Take a listen to our cut 204 again, Detective Ray Hermosillo, and you are hearing it just as the jury is. Once we removed some of that, underneath there was another round glob of and I'm sorry for the that's the best way I can describe it just burnt flesh bone all kind of what appeared to be put in a green bucket. The bucket had melted, so it was kind of disformed, and the flesh and bone was all kind of stuffed in that melted bucket. David Leroy, high-profile lawyer, joining us from that jurisdiction, Idaho.

I don't even know if I could stand to look over at Lori Vallow and think. I mean, it's one thing to see a horrific image like this in court, but then to let your mind go to the place where this was done to this little girl, to Tylee. And there sits the mom, cult mom Lori Vallow, who didn't put up one poster, who didn't call and report her missing, who lied about her whereabouts, tried to avoid police, was out in Hawaii having a beach wedding during the search for her children. And it is husband number five. I got that wrong. I lost count.

The prophet Chad Daybell is husband number five. And these children are found, their remains on his property, and their DNA on his pickaxe and his shovel. I mean, as soon as the jurors let their mind go there, she's going to be up the creek without a paddle. David? Well, remember, the defense did have the opportunity and exercised it to do an opening statement on day one of the trial evidence. And their theme was that Lori was a kind and loving mother to her children. The prosecution contrasted that with money, power, and sex. It made her a killer. And certainly the

opening stage of this trial digs a very deep hole for the defense that wants to present her as a loving mother. It's a tragic situation that is probably going to give these jurors pause for the rest of their life, the evidence that they're seeing. Well, you're right. Take a listen to our cut, 160, that very opening statement. Money, power, and sex. That's what this case is about. The defendant, Lori Vallow Daybell, used money, power, and sex, or the promise of those things, to get what she wanted. What she wanted was money, power, and sex. It didn't matter what obstacle she had to remove to get what she wanted. It didn't matter if the obstacle was a thing or a person.

And if it was a person, it didn't matter if the obstacle was a thing or a person. And if it was a person, it didn't matter who. So how do JJ and Tylee, their murders fit into her desire for money, power, and sex? I mean, this is husband number five. How much more sex do you want? But, okay, that's just a, you know, neither here nor there. But let's focus on money. Take a listen to our cut 162. This explains it. J.J. had also lost his father. And when J.J. lost his father, he became even that much more difficult to care for. No longer a second parent to help. Not only that, JJ also was entitled to social security benefits. The defendant didn't want to have to take care of JJ anymore. She wanted the money. JJ's gone. Yeah. Valo, he's dead. JJ's father is dead because he was shot right there with Colt Montlorey Valley watching

and her brother with the pistol, Alex Cox. So that's what this is about. Money, power, what power? Oh, I forgot. Right, Leo Sotili? She was going to be in power at the end of time, and she was going to lead the 144,000 to heaven. Is that the power she's talking about or some other power? I think so. I think that that's exactly it, is that Chad Daybell and Maury Vallow believed that they were the two leaders of the 144,000 prophesied in the book of Revelation, and that it was up to them to determine who was a light spirit, who was a dark spirit. And, you know, those light spirits would then, you know, ascend alongside them, according to their beliefs. But those dark spirits had to be eliminated. And I guess JJ and Tylee were dark spirits. Is that right? So they had to be killed.

That's right. That's right. Oh, okay. Well, that explains it all. I'm sure the jury will buy that defense. So in contrast to the picture portrayed by the defense that she's a loving, caring mom and that she had an alibi for the time that at least JJ was taken, that alibi she was three or four doors down in the apartment complex and had no idea what her brother Alex Cox was doing with JJ. I want you to hear this. Dr. Priya Banerjee is with us, forensic pathologist. You can find her at Anchor Forensic Pathology and on Twitter, autopsy underscore MD. Dr. Priya Banerjee, take a listen to Hourcut 205, more of what was done to Sweet Tylee.

We were only able to work a couple minutes before we'd have to get switched out by their detectives. We were able to get down all the way to the bottom of the mass. And what the goal was, was try to get to the bottom, to be able to lift it onto a tarp or a body bag. As we got down to the bottom, there was a partial human skull underneath. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Priya, again, thank you for being with us. What do you make of what you are hearing regarding the state of Sweet Tylee's body? What was done to this child? So it's horrific. I mean, I'm sort of speechless, which is rare. But I'm a mom first,

just like a lot of us. And so leaving, I can't leave that aside. But looking at it, you know, professionally, this is one of the worst states of a body described. You know, there's decomposition, there's burning, partial skull, just identifying her as Tylee is going to be difficult. And then trying to piece it together as to what killed her, it's unreal. And, you know, I think even an experienced detective or doctor like myself, we try to prepare, you know, when I go to prime scenes or when I used to, like, I used to have to be there digging up the bodies, helping unearth them layer by layer. You feel prepared, but even this is just horrific and the smell it's not like anything anybody can really describe and capture and you can't even really smell it from the

surface but once you start removing that dirt it's gonna really hit you And I want to juxtapose this testimony against the calm, cool, collected phone calls you were hearing between cult mom Lori Vallow and husband number five, the so-called prophet Chad Daybell. This is what was about to be dug up. And they're chatting so calmly, hoping against hope that cops wouldn't find the bodies. And as a matter of fact, at one point, Chad Daybell takes off in a vehicle. They have to go get him. He knows what they're about to find in our cut 193. I observed the ERT team remove the top layer of soil

in that area. As they began removing the top layer of soil, it began to expose three large white rocks. And at that point, there was a strong odor of, through my training experience, it was a decomposing body. Okay. Is that something you've smelled before? Unfortunately, yes. They scraped away some more soil around that round object, and it began to take the shape of the crown of, it looked like the crown of a head protruding through the dirt.

Okay. What action was taken next? We continued, or they continued to dig around that, what we started to call the burial site, and eventually exposed what appeared to be a small body wrapped in black plastic. At any time, was that plastic cut into? A slit was made in the white plastic, and eventually we were able to see that look like brown human hair. You know, it's really interesting, and I'm going to throw this to our guests that know this case like the back of their hands. That would be Leah Satili and Rich Robertson, Arizona-based private investigators of R3 Investigations. Rich, do you notice how he's actually been involved in this case as it relates to Larry and Kate Woodcock, who are JJ's grandparents? Rich, do you notice the difference in the way they treated the two children?

JJ was basically hermetically sealed. His body was intact. He was still dressed in his PJs and his socks. He was wearing the night that he was taken out of Lori Vallow's apartment and killed while Tylee was gruesomely dismembered, burned, and her flesh left in singed globs and a melted bucket. I think we can only speculate as to why they were different. some of the timeline that's been put together, it's pretty clear that Tylee was killed sometime before JJ. So maybe the experience and difficulty of doing what they did to Tylee kind of informed them as to they didn't really want to go through that again, whoever it was

that actually did the act. So it's hard to know. We can speculate all day long about that. I thought psychologically, Dr. Dana Anderson, it may indicate cult mom's deep hatred for Tylee, who's beginning to say things like no mom, and question her father's death. I guess that would have been husband number two or three, Joseph Ryan, and becoming more and more difficult for cult mom Lori Vallow to control. Her hatred for Tylee ran very deeply. Exactly. Yeah, everything revolves around Lori's wants, needs, desires, right? Nobody can really tell her no, okay? And, you know, come into contact with a teenager or a different opinion, someone that might challenge you, someone that might even say or think you're wrong, that's just definitely a conflict. And someone who's just so high in this

narcissistic traits, they can't take any even perceived rejection or they can't handle it. They can't handle their emotions that will come out and they project all the negative emotions in themselves out on that person. And as a way to get rid of those uncomfortable emotions that you might be feeling in response to this, get rid of that person. It is horrifying. Exactly. And to you, Leah Satilli, who's been in the courtroom day in, day out, and this trial is happening right now, and you are hearing testimony as the jury is hearing it.

Are the photos of the children's bodies or what's left of them up in the courtroom? And also, what is cult mom laurie valo doing during this gruesome testimony yeah the the bodies yes the photos are up um and to be clear i think that part of what makes them so hard to look at is that as hermeseo gives his testimony, we see step by step by step of how they uncovered these bodies, what was left of them. So you see the dirt being removed. Then you see poor JJ's little head sticking up through the dirt. You know, it's a very, it makes it all the more real to understand this process of discovering where these missing children were. You know, the jury is looking at the photos and the gallery is looking at the photos, the judge is looking at

the photos, and Lori Vallow is not looking at the photos. And you may wonder... I'm just going to add, oh, I'm just going to add that as difficult as it is to look at the photos, that's exactly how it's done. This is Dr. Banerjee, sorry. You know, we have to document every layer to make sure that it's a legitimate, you know, unearthing of the body and that we're collecting evidence at every step, right? Photos show the evidence, but this is not like just digging up a bulb in your garden and trying to get it done. This is hours of tedious work and making sure, because you don't know going into it what weapon was used. Is there a bullet in the dirt? You have to sift. Exactly. And you may be asking

yourself, where was cult mom Lori Vallow while her children or what's left of them are buried out at husband number five's property in the pet cemetery? Take a listen to only our cut 172. This is what cult mom Lori Vallow was up to while her children were out there literally rotting. Listen. I got into the browsing history in the Amazon account, and I saw that there was browsing for a beach wedding dress, a bathing suit, men's large size, I think it was large, white linen top and pants, and malachite wedding rings. And there were a couple other little odd and in things believe maybe flip-flops or something yeah while our children are out rotting Tylee's flesh in a bucket she called mom Lori Vallow is online searching for her

wedding dress to her next husband we have to go because court is resuming. Goodbye, friend.