Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "CUTTING & SAWING" LOVER DISMEMBERED, MOM FINDS HEAD IN BUCKET

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Appalling new details of a 25-year-old son's disassembly body is discovered by his own mom. Shad Thyrion, 25, was killed and dismembered in his mother's basement.  Authorities allege, Taylor Schabusiness, took advantage of Shad during rough sex and violated his body afterwards during a drug fueled state.  Schabusiness later allegedly brags to police she enjoyed the entire ordeal. She leaves Thyrion’s mutilated head in a bucket for his mother to find and law enforcement later discovered the victim’s dismembered torso, penis and carved-out organs in the basement. Joining Nancy Grace today,  Chief Chris Davis - Chief of the Green Bay Police Department since 2021, 30 Years in law enforcement. Served previously in the Portland, Oregon Police Bureau and the Arizona State University Police Department. Derek Smith - Criminal Defense Attorney, website: dwsmithlegal.com Dr. Shari Schwartz - Forensic Psychologist (specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy),  www.panthermitigation.com, Twitter: @TrialDoc, Author: "Criminal Behavior" and "Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology"  Dr. Thomas Coyne - Chief Medical Examiner, District 2 Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida; Forensic Pathologist, Neuropathologist, Toxicologist; X: @DrTMCoyne;  Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter for CrimeOnline.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight, cutting and sawing. A lover is dismembered. The mom finds a head in a bucket. Good evening. This is Crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Ahead in a Bucket. Let me just start with that.

Straight out to veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense attorney, Derek Smith, joining us. And you can find him at DWSmithLegal.com. Derek, thank you for being with us. You know when we were in law school, Derek, at your law school, me at my own, we had all these lofty legal thoughts like all sorts of constitutional arguments and theoretical back and forth about the meaning the founding fathers really intended. I never really thought through to the logical conclusion that I would be talking about a head in a bucket. Did you? No Nancy, you also had to probably pick a different

profession. You know not something that you're aspiring to be when we're in law school looking about all the constitutional law, all the ways we're going to change the world for the better. Never thought we'd be the one on the other end, right? No, I never did think I would be discussing a head in a bucket, but you know, a special guest joining us. We're very proud to have Chief Chris Davis, Chief of the Green Bay PD, served previously in Portland, Oregon, Police Bureau and Arizona State University PD. Wow. Okay.

What does that mean to me? You've seen a lot of action, but up until this case, had you ever encountered a human head, a severed head in a bucket? No. In all that time, this was a new one for me. When we were in training, for instance, when I was in law school and arguing in moot court, pretend court, to get ready to become a trial lawyer, I guess we all knew it was out there when you were in, let's just say cadet school or police training, you knew

it existed, but it's a whole other thing when it suddenly gets real. And there's a head and a bucket. You know, it really is. And we try to train police officers to have skills that they can use in any situation they find themselves in, but the real world sometimes just has things in it that we can't fully prepare you for. You know what's interesting, Chief Davis?

Well, so many things things every day for me. Unlike what Derek Smith said, if he thought he was going to have to talk about a head in a bucket, he may have chosen another profession, I would not. That would make me want to put bad guys in jail even more, even more intensely, but I'm not defending them. I'm not trying to get them out of jail. So Chief Davis, another thing is in all the years I've investigated, prosecuted, gone to the morgue, gone to crime scenes, I never got sick to my stomach. I never felt queasy.

I never broke down and cried. Other things, more poignant details, get me upset. But the carnage doesn't. It kind of makes me angry. It makes me want justice. It makes me wonder why the bad guy wasn't in jail already. Because you don't go from 0 to 110 MPH overnight. There had to be a lead up. Unless, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm correcting myself. There's Coburger. Here's a PhD student. Everybody thinks he's meek and mild mannered. And now, four murders.

So I guess from the outside looking in, although it may have been brewing for a long time, he did go to zero to 120 MPH, literally overnight. So I guess it can happen, Chief. It can. And for us, when we encounter something like this, our job is to find out the truth so that we can refer the matter to our prosecutors, our partners in the DA's office and the court system.

But, you know, when you encounter something like this, the person's history can be interesting, but what you're really looking for is what can we prove actually happened in this instance? I'm so glad, Chief, you didn't say what we're looking for is why. Because I would, you know, beat my brains out for about the first five years that I was a felony prosecutor in inner-city Atlanta. I would look over at the defendant and think, why would you do this and leave such a wake of pain trailing behind you just like a motorboat? And then one day, I was about into year five, I thought, why am I wasting my time trying to figure out what he was

thinking when he committed a double murder, a heinous double murder? Why am I even worried? That's not an element of proof showing motive. So let's get right to it and let's start where so many violent crimes start with the 911. Okay, Derek Smith, veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense attorney, which is its own breed lawyer. Did you hear the 911? The guy says, my girlfriend just woke me up, swear she found the severed head of her son in the basement. And what does the 911 dispatch say? Can you repeat the address, sir?

And he says, 829 Stoneybrook. And the guy, dispatch says, STONEY. I mean, what? What is he, brain dead? The guy just hears that there's a head in a bucket. The head is in the basement. He's like, can you spell Stoney, please? Is there an E in that what we gotta understand? I mean they they're on the other end of the emergency phone call trying to understand what's going on, too You know, it's not every day you get a phone call like that that there's something in the

head in a basket But they're trying to de-escalate the situation too They want to make sure the person on the other end is calm enough to at least relay the information about what's going on, especially when you hear something heinous like this. You know you want to make sure the person calling you is safe enough and what's going on. Obviously the person with the head in the basket has another issue going on but gets more into that later. I'm just telling you I'm always amazed and a little confounded by the way dispatch responds.

But hey, you know what? I hear what you're saying. Let's hear more of that 911 call. Okay, tell me what's happening there again. I have no clue what's happening with my girl. I swear she's found her severed head of her son in the basement. Did you go down there? No, fuck it.

I went down. I can't tell what the fuck. I just part of my range. I'm kind of freaked out. Did she just wake up and say that? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I can't tell what the I kind of freaked out. Did she just wake up and say that? Yeah. And who is, who's head is it? She claiming it's her son. How old is her son? 24, 25. Out to Dr. Sherry Schwartz joining us, forensic psychologist specializing in capital mitigation. You can find her at panthermitigation.com. She's the author of Criminal Behavior and my

favorite of hers, Where Law and Psychology Intersect Issues in Legal Psychology. Dr. Sherry, thank you for being with us. Did you notice the guy here, the mom's boyfriend, he's not going down and looking himself. He's saying she's claiming it's her son. What's with him? Why doesn't he go down there and find out? And he's sounding like he's disbelieving the mom. Well it is something that would cause a state of disbelief in some people, especially if they haven't seen it. Um, and I'm guessing that he didn't want to go down to see it because if it's true, it's absolutely horrific.

Uh, you know, and imagine what mom was going through, that she sees her son's head in a bucket in the basement. So I think that's a natural reaction, although I think most of us think we would run down there to see what was going on. So finally, mom takes the phone. Listen. Hello? Hi, Tara. So can you tell me what's going on? Great, my son's head is in a bucket. I don't know if it's moving. What makes you think that? Because I looked in the bucket. What did you think that?

What did you see? Okay, where's the rest of the body at? You are hearing the mother of the victim and I'm wondering Dr. Sherry Schwartz if she is in shock because I notice that she can't say it again. The dispatch says what did you see and instead of recounting it again she says exactly what I told you. It's like I've said it once. I'm not I don't even like saying it right now. She didn't want to say again. My son's head is in a bucket. She won't say it again. She can't bring herself to say it. What is that response? It could be exactly what you just said, Nancy. It could be a state of shock because she sounds

remarkably calm and unfazed, which makes a lot of people jump to the conclusion that, well, maybe she had something to do with it. But the reality is it could very well be a state of shock. I mean, imagine how shocking to see a stranger's head in a bucket, let alone your own child's. And also to Dr. Thomas Coyne joining us. He is the chief medical examiner, District 2 Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida, never a lack of business in Florida. It's like the crime vortex, believe it or not. Forensic pathologist, neuropathologist, toxicologist, and you can find him on X at Dr. T. M. Coyne,

C-O-Y-N-E. Dr. Coyne also, I think it would take a mother to identify that because when a head is severed, it no longer really looks like the person you knew. It largely becomes disfigured looking almost immediately. Why is that? Well, it certainly can. I mean, you lose the muscle tone, the normal lively appearance of the face, you know, either that sort of flat affect, the normal expressions go away.

But also there could be a little bit of decomposition that occurs, especially if the death occurred hours or days prior. You lose all the fluid out of the head or the blood in particular. So the coloration may be different. So yeah, and it's out of context for what we normally expect to see. And I'm assuming shock plays a role in that as well. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me now, Dave Mack, Crime Stories Investigative Reporter. Dave, thank you for being with us.

Lead me up to this point. What would lead a mom to just wander down to the basement and look in a bucket? Well, in reality, she woke up about 3.15, 3.20 in the morning because she heard a door shut downstairs and then she heard a car start out in the driveway, enough to wake any of us up. So she went down to see what was going on. And she goes all the way down the stairs and doesn't see anything. It looks like it's a little disturbed.

They're, you know, a little bit different than normal. It's when she turns around to head back up the stairs, she glances down to her right and she sees this bucket and it's got a towel on it Nancy and being a mother and being curious and knowing that's not a normal way for it to be, she actually looks inside and that's how it all happened. She, I can't imagine me waking up at three o'clock plus in the morning and then all of a sudden you've got a head in a bucket just goes beyond anything any of us can imagine. Well, of course, Dave Mack, I'm asking for probative or evidentiary reasons because most people would not just wake up out of a dead sleep and think, oh, let me go down in the basement and look for a bucket. But, because that would indicate some degree of guilt, right?

But here, the mom was woken up by the sound of a door slamming, and then she went looking. And to you, Chief Chris Day, joining us, Chief of the Green Bay PD, excellent reputation, by the way. Chief Davis, again, thank you for being with us. The smallest things are probative. They prove something. For instance, if you pull up to your house and you notice the front door is slightly ajar. It may only be an inch, but you certainly did not leave your front door unlocked and open, right? So it's a small thing, but in our world it's a major red flag.

So the moment mom sees a bucket sitting out in the floor, I mean it's her place, she wasn't there before she went to bed, the last time she was in the basement, now it's there, now I understand why mom wakes up in the middle of the night, goes downstairs, and looks in a bucket. Because if I didn't know those facts, I would think she may have had something to do with it. Yeah, and especially at the beginning of an investigation like this, those are the kind of details that police officers look for.

And you're right, the whole case really can turn on a small detail like the condition of the door when whoever is responsible for this left. The bucket, obviously we would have a lot of questions for mom in this situation about what normal looks like at their house to try to find those details that don't fit the norm for them in their home. And to Derek Smith, whenever someone is, quote, clairvoyant, they're usually guilty.

Let's just think this through. Okay. Remember O.J. Simpson, Orenthal James Simpson, the double killer? He had a dream, he said, where he killed Nicole Brown. Okay. Then, remember Scott Peterson, he's such a great example for so many facets of crime. He told his lover, Amber Fry, this was going to be his first Christmas without his wife, Lacey, that he was a widower.

And then two weeks later, bam, it was Christmas and Lacey was dead. Either he is clairvoyant or he's a killer and there are many, many other examples of when a murder defendant suddenly has a streak of clairvoyance. The mom here had a reason for waking up. She has nothing to do with this, but if I didn't know it led up to it, I absolutely would have looked at her. I totally would have given her the hairy eyeball. Yeah, Nancy, I can understand.

You know, when a defendant comes to me and saying, hey, you know, things weren't going right, I was fantasizing about these things, but I didn't really want it to happen in reality. You know, I mean, just talking about O.J. Simpson. Come on. He's not guilty, right? A jury of his peers found him not guilty.

Just because he was fantasizing or having premonitions about these things doesn't mean it's actually happening. And the state has the burden to prove it, right? Well, what did you just say? Did you say Simpson's not guilty? And what about premonitions? Just because you're fantasizing and having thoughts about

things happening. Even you can't keep a straight face. Well, we're just having a conversation here. Aren't we? You know, we're just talking about it. You know, a lot of times I'll have even divorce. Let's say about a divorce, you know, a spouse has been wronged even cheating on and they're just fantasizing about their

husband meeting a traumatic or drastic ending to his life. Doesn't mean they want it to happen. But you know, we're humans. We have emotion. I want to see your client list right now. I want to see your divorce client list right now because you just may have let a cat out of a bag clawing angry cat. So we're talking about mom what could possibly have woken her up in the middle of the night and she just suddenly comes upon a bucket with a head in it. Okay

This explains it all listen to mom on the 911 call because I want to hear if, the lights were out in the basement. I turned them off and I looked around and I looked there. But then when I turned around to come back upstairs, I was like, I have a bucket with a towel over it. And I'm like, oh great, that lighter is out here all day yesterday. I picked it in a bucket. And I looked and that was in that bucket. What is your son's name? Sadderio. You know, it is part of the law in criminal cases that the prosecutor or the defense can never ask the jury to put themselves in the shoes of the victim. That cannot be argued. That's reversible error. And if you do it, you're screwed. Technical legal term. But the more I think about this Dr. Sherry Schwartz when I'm listening to the mom I can't help but put myself in her shoes. I've got a son. I've got a daughter. I don't want to even let my mind go to this

I don't want to even let my mind go to this place where this mom finds her son, Shad, beheaded with his head in a bucket. I mean, I don't think that's anything you can ever get over for the rest of your life. No, most certainly not. And imagine she was in the house because she was able to go downstairs and see what was going on. So the shock, the guilt, the grief, the trauma, these are all very real things and they don't go away. People say, you know, that the case will bring closure. Closure is basically a myth for victims, co-victims of homicide and trauma. And when you're the one who discovers not even an entire body intact

but the head of your child in a bucket, I'm not sure that that's an image that ever leaves your mind. What led up to the moment? We are convinced, I'm convinced the mom had nothing to do with this. I don't think her boyfriend had anything to do with it when you're hearing on 911. Judging by his demeanor with 911 and the words he's using, what he's saying, but let's listen to some more. No, he was here yesterday with some chick and then all of a sudden nobody's here. And she came up to use the restroom a couple times and she keeps calling and calling and now she's saying that she hears the phone down there too.

Is she with you right now? Yes, I want to, yeah, she's upstairs, she's a little freaked out and I don't know what to do. Okay, alright, general I... And the victim's mom elaborates on the last movements off her son. Listen, when's the last time you saw your son? Well, I guess today is Wednesday. So I think my brother's dad, I'm amazed. And he doesn't normally stay here. He's't stay here for a few days. He got a list of injuries. He was here a couple hours, then he went up with Taylor.

And they met. Someone's name was Taylor. Who's that? Girl. Police immediately converge on the scene, and this is what we learn they see. I went downstairs at the bottom of the stairs to the right. There was a green bucket with a shower towel on top of it. Just to verify we had an actual head in a bucket,

lifted the towel off, and there was, in fact, a human severed head in the bucket. From our friends at WBAYtv2, back to Chief Chris Davis, Chief of the Green Bay PD. Chief, have you noticed, I have, that in many murder cases you see the killer try to hide the face, if not the whole body, but at least the face of the dead person. For instance, in this case the killer not only killed the young man, the son, Shay, but then puts a towel over the bucket. I've seen cases where leaves were put over the victim's face. And the double killing at Delphi of little Abby and Libby, twigs and leaves were put over the girl's bodies, particularly the face. I even had a case chief where a mother was killed, many people believe, by her daughter, her adult daughter, and she left, allegedly left the mom's

naked body on mom's bed and then shoved a white wicker trash basket over the mom's head. Have you noticed that? I mean I'm just a lawyer, I'm not a shrink, but that's got to mean something psychologically. Yeah, I think that is very common at crime scenes. And you can speculate as to why that is. I think we're accustomed because we're social animals. And the way we interact with people is face to face. And I think at some level what's going on with someone in that situation is they don't want to look the person in the eye that they just committed this ultimate violation of that person to.

So I don't quite get it. Have you ever seen it? Derek Smith, veteran defense attorney, where the head or the face is covered, I've seen it time after time after time. They might put a blanket over the victim. They might put a sweater over the face is covered. I've seen it time after time after time they might put a blanket over the victim. They might put a sweater over the face. It's almost as if it's instinctive. You know like how before a dog sits down it goes around and around and around and then it sits down. Why? Don't know. But it happens. I don't know what to make of it. But in this

case you've got a severed head and a bucket. What you think? Putting a tea towel over it's going to make it go away? Nobody's gonna notice it? Well, obviously not if it's something like just a tea towel over a dead body. But I mean, from my experience, I've seen just, especially emotional type crimes, specifically murders and things of that nature. After it's done, there's a shock, there's a feeling of regret. And you're right,

they just cover it up because they don't want to think of it anymore. They want to, obviously besides hiding a body and trying to get away with the crime, they don't want to face the reality of what they've just done. So they cover it up and just put it away in their mind and hope it goes away, but no, it doesn't work like that. Finding your son's head, a severed head, in a bucket covered with a tea towel in your basement. Again, I don't think the mom can ever come back from that. Dismemberments, dismemberments of dead bodies.

Quite the anomaly, but happens more often than I want to think. For instance, the case of Joel Guy Jr. Joel and Lisa Guy were found deceased in their residence. The parents are believed to have been murdered between late Friday night, the 25th, and midday on Saturday, the 26th. Both suffered multiple vicious stab wounds as well as dismemberment. Joel Jr. was visiting from Louisiana. He arrived in Knoxville on

Wednesday the 22nd and departed on Sunday the 27th. A welfare check initially called in by Lisa's co-workers on the 28th led to the discovery of multiple gruesome crime scenes throughout the residence. Joel Jr. placed portions of the remains in an acid-based solution in an attempt to destroy evidence. He actually put his mom's head in a cooking pot and was cooking it on the stove. To Dr. Sherry Schwartz, and boy do I need to shrink,

renowned forensic psychologist, There's the mind of a killer, that's one thing, but the mind of a killer that then dismembers is a whole other animal. What is the motivation? What goads someone to dismember a body? And it's not just disposal because in this case the body was dismembered and then left in a bucket in the basement to be found. So the dismemberment means something psychologically, but what? Well traditional wisdom is that it's to conceal the crime, but you're right it's not just about that. It could very much be a fascination with knowing what it's to conceal the crime, but you're right. It's not just about that.

It could very much be a fascination with knowing what it's like to kill somebody and cut them off, which is really bizarre and something that most of us can't understand, but it's a fact. People will do that, and there's a level of viciousness there. In this case, what strikes me is, the head in the bucket to me is not about, not so much about, oh I can't

deal with what I've done. Because understand that when somebody takes it to this level, they're not concerned with the well-being of anyone else. But leaving that head behind like that was very much to be about making sure the family did discover it and wanting to inflict pain So that could be another aspect of dismemberment Completely eviscerating Destroying the victim's body once they're already dead to dr. Thomas Coyne joining us chief medical examineriner, District 2, Emmys Office, Florida.

In the case, we were just talking about Joel Guy. He had been told his family was going to cut him off. The parents were retiring and they needed the little money that they had left to support themselves. So, he would have to make a living now. He had been going to school and school and I'm all about education, But he was in school for like 10 years and didn't have a job. I guess he stayed home and played Dungeons and Dragons or Mortal Kombat. I don't know. But whatever, he was angry because he was going to be cut off.

Listen to this description from Dr. Amy Hawes, the medical examiner. In that case, his mother was dismembered, her head was severed from her body, her arms disarticulated at the shoulders. And you know what, Cohen, I would not just say to the jury dismembered. Oh no, they have to hear every fact because every minute the dismemberment continues is more mens rea, intent, malice, which goes to murder one. And yes I know before you jump in Derek Smith that the dismemberment happens after the crime, but this shows frame of mind. Arms disarticulated, legs disarticulated at the knee. The dad was also dismembered. Mr. Guy, his legs disarticulated at the hips. Her head completely severed, her arms

completely severed. This takes a long time, Dr. Coyne. Long time and energy, yeah. That's a lot of tissue to cut through, especially going through the hip. It's difficult even during the autopsy if I'm trying to disarticulate a hip to look for trauma. It takes a little bit of an effort. So yes, not an easy process. No, no.

And it indicates a male killer. The instances of female killers that dismember, very, very low, almost non-existent. And this behavior is not within one certain type of socioeconomic level. It crosses race, it crosses education, it crosses money. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A mom finds her son's severed head in a bucket in a basement with a tea towel covering the top of the bucket. Who did it? If we don't think it's mom or boyfriend,

that leads me to girlfriend. I've got a pretty good reason for blaming her. Listen. Can you tell me what happened? It's a good question because I blacked out during that time. But, um... Okay. Um...

I need time to, uh... think. She needs time to think. She needs time to think? Think about what? Why isn't she upset? Her lover's head is in a bucket in the basement covered by a tea towel that from our friends at WBAY TV blacked out. Derek Smith, that's convenient. She's having sex with her boyfriend at one moment, she blacks out and suddenly right there in the basement

his head's in a bucket. Funny how that works. She blacked out, Derek. Please tell me you haven't used the blackout defense. I bet you have, haven't you? Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it the blackout defense. I would say that, you know, chemically there was too much stress from knowing what just happened, realizing that, you know, the person she loves is now gone forever and she can't take the shock and passes out. I know there's a lot of things that can lead up to that, that can put a person into a situation where they no longer have control of themselves, other faculties, they pass out, it's over. Wow, you know what, she seems perfectly in control

and I just saw her pulling a Kim K and doing an awesome selfie. Wow she knows how to do that but yet blacks out. Blacks out and she says I need time to think. Okay listen to more of Taylor Shibusness. Do you think the body is still there? I don't see why not. Unless it's just up in the air. But you could have. What? It could go up and down?

Okay, from our friends at WBAY to Chief Chris Davis joining us, Chief of Green Bay PD. How many times have you had a suspect black out at just the critical moment? Surprisingly often and as you say usually that's a pretty good red flag for investigators that this is somebody who probably did it. Chief Davis also and I'm certainly not the church lady. people can have sex, however they want to have sex as long as it's consensual, but isn't it true Chief Davis that the Green Bay police interrogated the girlfriend, if you want to still call her that,

tell us your business, and she describes how she likes to strangle her boyfriend during sex with a dog chain, placing the chain around his neck and then quote walking him like a dog. When asked if the boyfriend likes it, she says, I have no idea. Did that happen Chief? Yes, that's all true. What exactly did she say about how she liked to strangle her boyfriend with a dog chain, a metal dog chain? She made a comment to investigators that she and her boyfriend would use this dog chain to engage in like autoeroticism, where they would get him just to the point of passing out. Chief, would you repeat that please? Yeah, she did tell investigators that this was something that the two of them engaged in together,

that she would choke him with this dog chain until he was almost to the point of passing out. Mm-hmm. And he liked it? We'll never know, but she believed he did, apparently. Again, convenient. Listen. use a metal dog leash to strangle Shad Therion. Shabizzniss continues to strangle Therion until he starts to cough up blood, then continues to choke him with her bare hands for three to five more minutes until Therion is dead. Keith, she stated that this was all consensual, that he had done this before, but I doubt before he started coughing up blood during the erotic asphyxiation. Right, I doubt that as well.

You're being extremely tight lipped on this and I think I know why. Listen. Shad Therian is dead, but Taylor Shabusnis continues to perform for the next several hours. In the morning, Shibusnis positions the body on the bed and using knives she finds in the house, including Serrati bread knife, decapitates Therian over a bucket and a storage tote to contain the blood. Dumping the blood down the basement shower drain, Shibusnis removes all the organs from his body and places them in plastic bags, cardboard boxes, the tote used earlier for blood and places the head in the bucket. I mean, don't you just want to book her right there and say this is done? I can't take it anymore. In here you do in your heart you do. But you also have a job to do as a police

officer. And you know, you have to anticipate an adversarial process later on in court. And that means that for as long as it takes, and in this case, this took quite a while, you have to process that entire scene and be very thorough because those small details matter when this case goes to court. And it's especially important for the family of the victim to get, you never get closure out of something like this, but

to at least try to bring some justice to this situation. But as you learned pretty early as a police officer that sometimes you have to just suspend disbelief, remember that you have a job to do and do it the right way. In an extremely rare scenario worldwide, a female tailors the business, is charged with murder and decapitation and full dismemberment of the victim, Shad. But her violence doesn't end there. Look what happens in court. Out of the blue, she attacks her lawyer. That's 2023. You have to have multiple sheriffs, three male sheriffs, surround her. That's my friends at ABC7 in Chicago. What brought that on, Dave Mack? She didn't want to go with certain things as a defense strategy, and she didn't like

the way he was representing her. So instead of talking in a normal way, she just attacked. Seems like that's her normal way of dealing with things. Just get physical in a hurry. Okay, that was in 2023. When you take a look at her posting for that selfie, it seems hard to reconcile that photo with what we're seeing in court. That was in 2023 with that lawyer, but it ain't over yet. that lawyer, but it ain't over yet. Okay, she's doing it again. That's for our friends at Court TV. That is a different lawyer, right, Dave Mack?

She actually, because as soon as she attacks the attorney, they drop away. I mean, she's getting, you know, attorneys provided to her. And, you know, once she attacks, there's nothing they can do with her. On top of that, when the next guy comes in, he asks the judge to recuse himself from the case because, well, he saw the attack. Okay, and again, it's not over yet.

Here she's coming into court again. She's coming into court with a spit mask on and she is cuffed. And she looks angry. Isn't it true Dave Mack that she also attacked a nurse and a jail employee? She did Nancy. She had a somehow got a staple in her arm and they brought her to the nurse's station in the jail and prison. And as soon as she's sitting there, you know, in the chair, the woman, the nurse uses the tweezers to get the staple out. And the minute the tweezers touch the staple, Shabizz attacks. She throws the nurse as far as she can, grabs a metal tray and starts swinging it, pounding

on everybody. A share, one of the guards there was able to put hands on her and get her into the wall and then eventually get her on the ground. But it was, it took a few minutes. It was not a quick in and out process. It took time to get her under control. It just wouldn't stop. Chief Davis, if this woman ever gets out of jail, you do know she's going to kill somebody else, right? Yeah, I think it's fair to say she's demonstrated that she's a pretty serious threat to public safety. And Chief Davis, when you see her, for instance, taking that selfie, she looks so tiny and petite.

It's very hard to look at her and realize she is a stone cold killer, Chief, but you encounter that every day. We do. Most people that we encounter in our business who get arrested are fairly normal folks, but every once in a while you run into somebody who is just a dangerous human being. This case is on appeal. God forbid a new trial is ordered. The state will again build its case. If you

know or think you know anything about this case, please dial 920-448-3200 and tell our show business where you are right now in the pen, it's just a little pit stop on your way to hell. Nancy Grace signing off. Good night.