Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - D4VD CAUGHT ON VIDEO: BLAMES STENCH IN MANSION ON "BATHROOM" AFTER CELESTE MURDER

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

The fallout continues for D4vd as we go through the prosecution documents line by line. We learn in the singer can be tracked to Santa Barbara county. This is the area where Celeste's passport card was found by Caltrans workers. The area is only open sunrise to sunset. Could this be where D4vd tried to get rid of evidence?  More late breaking info, video turns up in which D4vd passes off a stench from the rental home as a "bathroom" problem. Is he trying to pass of the smell of decomposing Celeste as a bodily function?  Joining Nancy Grace today: Jo-Anna Nieves  - Criminal defense attorney and Founder of The Nieves Law Firm, website: thenieveslawfirm.com, Instagram, Facebook and X: nieveslawfirm, YouTube and TikTok: thenieveslawfirm  Dr. Cheryl Arutt  - Licensed Clinical and Forensic Psychologist specializing in Trauma Recovery, PTSD and EMDR,  website: askdrcheryl.com,  website: CreativeEMDR.com , IG: @askdrcheryl Tom Smith  -  Former NYPD Detective for 30 years - Narcotics, Robbery Squad, Gang Investigations - was also assigned to the FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force. Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast, thegoldshieldshow.com, FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow  Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue”, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Caitlyn Becker - Senior National Correspondent at the New York Post ,  Host: ‘NYPostCast  Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'         See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. D4VD, aka David Anthony Burke, caught on video, doing what? Blaming the stench,

the overwhelming stench, in his mansion, on his bathroom. After teen girl, Celeste, is murdered. Her body decaying. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. They met when she was 11 still having graces. He went himself to the school playground and pays another kid $1,000 to give Celeste Rivas a secret cell phone. This is the Tesla being moved

from the rental house. Not only do we do our own experiment and discover that D4VD, David Anthony Burke, paid between $200 and $300 to allegedly Uber Celeste Rivas, a little girl, a school girl, from one town to him in order to murder her. He ordered her like she's pizza, like she's Chinese food. Ordered her up on an Uber, like Uber delivery.

to kill her? This, as he is caught on video, blaming the smell of her decomposing body in his mansion on the bathroom. And, oh, yes, we have it for you. Really? Really? That's from At Sakura Shimko on Twitch, and I've just got to see it again.

Let's see that one more time. Oh, yeah. I didn't know. All of the best of the way my bathroom smelled. They took a shit down to the time. I don't. That's what I'm talking about it. Yep.

Why would they video that? But to each her own, that said, there's no accounting for one's taste. That is from at Secura Shimko on Twitter. which, okay, I got a huge A-list panel tonight, but I got to go to Tom Smith first. Former NYP detective, 30 years, narque, robbery, gang, murder, FBI joint terrorism task. He is the star, the co-host of Gold Shields podcast. Did you hear that or do I need to play it again? Once you smell a decomposing body at a murder scene, you never forget it.

and you don't confuse it with a backed up commode. I mean, I can't wait. I hope. I pray. The prosecutors play this for the jury. He, according to them, orders her up on an Uber like she's Uber eats. Pays $2,300 to get her to his place.

Then compares her body, her decomposing body, to him, quote, taking a shit. His words, not mine. in his bathroom. Can he do anything more demeaning to this little girl? No, not at all. I mean, he is the epitome of a monster.

And we've gone through other monsters in the criminal justice world, and he is right up there. You know, when you have someone who has such a disregard for a human being to treat her the way that he did, I mean, it is a different level, Nancy. But this is why investigations take time, because you want to get all the information like this out there for the prosecution, for the police department to make a stronger case.

Because when you have people like this who commit crimes, they have no idea what is to come. So they cannot gain plan what's to come. And this is where they get jammed up. And this is why prosecutions are successful in investigations end in a good way. Straight out to Caitlin Becker joining us. She is a senior national correspondent. at the New York Post. She's the host of a hit podcast, NY Postcast. Get it in my post,

NY Postcast. Caitlin, thanks for being with us. I mean, really? I know that it's your job to report the facts with no emotion without making any judgment calls, but really her body is decomposing. And Caitlin, I don't know if in your business you've ever had to go to a murder scene or been there when a body was discovered, it hits you like a cement brick, the smell. It's people vomit when they smell it. That's how bad it is. I've seen rookie cops vomit when they come on a crime scene or smell decomp for the first time. Did you know about this video we found?

I didn't, Nancy. The first time I'm seeing this video is you playing it right now. And I'm with the guy in the corner whose eyes. were going back and forth, he looked completely baffled by what was going on. I don't know if it's stupidity or hubris or arrogance in this case that it just seems like after this crime was committed and the premeditation of the committing of the crime, that there just seems to be this massive digital trail left as if this guy never thought he was going to be held accountable for allegedly murdering this crime.

girl. I mean, just this video, I have to imagine there's more things like this out there. And you add that to the list of evidence that prosecutors say they have digital evidence, as you say, the ordering of her like she's Chinese food on an Uber app that's going to her house, being ordered allegedly by him to his house with a driver in the car taking her back and forth to confirm it would be her in there, not to mention the litany of other pieces of evidence that digitally showed premeditation and what happened afterwards. It's just, it's baffling to me. And you're right that I'm supposed to come at this as objectively as I possibly can looking at the facts. But it's almost impossible to do it in this case because it's so arrogant and aggressive and obnoxious the behavior that we're seeing displayed by this person in the day and the days after the killing.

The guy you're referring to is Neo. He calls himself, quote, the Asian. Our friend, private investigator, Steve Fisher, was hired by the owner of D4BD's mansion that he was renting where we believe, hey, let's see that photo of the outside of the garage. This garage is where the blue plastic kitty pool, the inflatable pool, we think, although it could have been one of those. plastic kitty pools. This is where her body was dismembered. This is with the garage door

open. We think this is where the kitty pool was where Celeste's body was dismembered. I believe that because in the garage we saw in the court documents blood spatter is found

in that garage. So the trail left behind is overwhelming and to think that the stench from that had wafted up into the living space upstairs and he's blaming it on the bathroom. What is the date of that video we're showing right now? July 29th, 2025. The windows were rolled down and it's coming out of D4VD's mansion. Do you believe that Celeste was already, her body was already in the front, the front trunk? Absolutely, yes.

Why? Because they leave, that is, this is the last day that the car is driven. They leave that evening, early in the evening, late afternoon on a tour bus for the first leg of the tour, which starts in San Francisco. So this is, this is it. They leave and they're not back until the search warrant after the search warrant is executed. Now, somebody is back, not David, but somebody is in that house the day before. before the search warrant's executed. And we don't know, we haven't narrowed down the two people,

but we don't know exactly who. But David is out on tour and doesn't come back before she's found. Now, Fisher would not confirm or deny that Neo is driving the vehicle. But he gave me enough clues to make me think Neo is driving the vehicle with Celeste's body in the vehicle. Now, why am I showing you that? I want you to look again at the stench video as we are calling it and look at Neo.

Look at Neo. And you got to wonder, did he already know Celeste was dead when the stench video occurred? Yeah, the end of the spouser? Yeah. Yeah. the girl is laughing and making light of it. Neo's like,

okay. That's from at Sakura Shimko on Twitch. That is how we found that video by digging and digging and digging. Straight out to Dr. Cheryl Eric joining us and boy, do we need to shrink. Clinical Forensic Psychologist specializing in trauma recovery at ask. Dr. Cheryl.com.

Dr. Cheryl, thank you for being with us. So again, Neo is not charged. with any of these crimes as it relates to Celeste death. He's not been named a person of interest. In fact, he was called in front of the grand jury to testify, and I predict he will be a witness at trial.

But let's look at it without the sound. Does he already know that that smell? Is this little girl's dead body? Let's watch together, Dr. Cheryl. Take a look at this. They're talking, and now he's looking at, D4VD blaming a backed up commode. He's not, he's not laughing.

He's like, yeah, that's not what it is at all. Okay, Dr. Cheryl, Eric, what do you make of it? I mean, caught on video blaming the stench of a little girl's decaying body on a clogged commode. Nancy, when we look at the video, what we see are micro expressions. And we can't know 100%, but it seems like there are micro expressions of gritted teeth, grimacing, looking concerned. And yes, the young woman, Sakura looks like she's having a great time and laughing. But he certainly looks worried. And I don't know that we can definitively say, but we do know that he also tried to avoid coming in for questioning the first time.

and I'm sure that there's a lot more to find out about Neo's role potentially in this. Yeah, role, if any, but apparently he did say something to the grand jury. I don't know what, but I know he was in charge in Celeste's death. Experience Harry Stiles live in London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Stiles. IHart Radio wants to send you and a mate across the pond with flights from Virgin Atlantic, hotel from TripCentral.ca,

tickets, and $1,000 cash. Here we got it! Download the free IHart Radio app. Listen to IHart new music for 10 minutes. Enter to win. Every day is another chance to see Harry Styles. Very excited to see you at the show. Kiss all the time, disco occasionally available now.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. straight out to veteran criminal defense attorney joining us from this jurisdiction in California Nievis criminal defense attorney founder of the Nievis law firm at the Nevis law firm.com Joanna now she's already dead and according to the state he killed her stab wounds multiple stab wounds, then dismembered her. He ordered her up on an uber like she's a pizza. And now he's comparing the smell of her body to him pooping. All right. And when he's saying all this, Joanna Nevis, he's joking and laughing about it and having people over. They're having a get together. And her dead body is there in the house.

I definitely think there's something to this interaction that points to what the defense is going to latch on to as like a grander scheme that involves multiple people. And I think one of the main things we've got to focus in on is continuing, the defense is going to continue to argue that David was not the cause of her death. I think it's going to be difficult to get over the hurdle that he was not involved at all. But the mutilation of the corpse, there's this sense of knowing when you see this interaction between the two. But there is still room for the defense to argue that the murder may have been committed by somebody else. Somebody else may have lured her there. Someone else may have had access to his phone. Someone else may have prompted the communications.

There was this allegation of jealousy between Celeste and another woman or other, well, I can't even say woman. and other young girls that he may have been involved with. So there's room to create an alternative theory right now. But unfortunately, we have not seen the actual text communications yet. Did you just say there's room to create an alternate theory? Like make something up, fabricate a story for the jury, create it? I wouldn't say fabricate, but definitely outline where that alternate. alternative theory exists because the role of the defense is to inform the jury that there is

potentially reasonable doubt that is their whole entire job. But you said create. How is create different from Fabricate? Well, Fabricate does imply that it's made up and create is the putting together of your mind and looking at the material and saying, here is the route that we're going to go with the material that we have in front of us. us. We haven't seen it. So it's, at this point, we have to kind of imagine in our minds what the defense's theory is going to be. Imagine what the defense will be. Create. Means. Bring

something into existence. Produce. Call something new to happen using imagination. Okay. I think your wording is absolutely correct. Use your imagination to come up with something. reason to argue to a jury with a straight face that D4VD is, you said, is not the cause of death. You mentioned possibly some of the minor girls that D4VD was carrying on with as a potential scapegoat, an alternate theory, that's a nice way to put it, a scapegoat, somebody else to blame, somebody other than D4VD. Minor girls did it or a minor girl. Anybody else. you could blame? I'm not arguing. I'm curious. Who else? Neo? Will the defense blame Neo? They've got to blame somebody unless they go what I predict could be the defense. And that is a civil defense of a

split personality. That personality specifically being Itami. Itami is a Japanese anime name that D4VD spoke of very often that he would let out. I could, yeah, there you go. There you go. Yeah, I predict that's a possibility, but you're saying that the good old SOD defense. Some other dude did it. Other than a minor girl, who else could he blame? I think that we're going to have, Neil, there's the, I don't want to name name.

of course, because none of this has been charged, but of course he could point fingers at a man-a-man-a- as real is what you mean. Well, we haven't seen what could support that kind of theory, and that's what makes it difficult, but I'm outlining what some alternative theories could be. And the same thing goes for the civil defense. I think we would really need to see some documented mental health history there, some psychiatric experts to support that kind of defense and really put forward that he was dissociating in some way or there was a mental condition that actually contributed to this.

I, you know, have not, again, seen in the recording anything that is indicative of that, besides this kind of leaning on his alter ego character that he plays into, pointing the finger at somebody else or some other circumstance may be a more viable theory at this juncture until we see more about his mental condition. Okay. And Joanna Nevis, everyone, I want you to know is a very successful defense attorney. That's why we invite her back over and over and over. She creates defenses and she wins in court.

We have an adversarial system. The state fights the defense and they fight back. I get it. I know what she's doing. I know those are the rules. She opens up all these possibilities. these two jury, hey, maybe they did it, maybe they did it. That known, can you really convict D4VD with all the possibilities of it?

That's what will be argued. That is her job. I just happen to not like it and to disagree with it. But that is what she is sworn to do as a defense attorney and that is what she does. To Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner Terrant County, that's Fort Worth, host of a hit podcast, Mayhem in the More, He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU and more. Cannot count the thousands of autopsies he has performed.

Let's explore what we've just heard from Joanna Nevis. And I think she's right. I think those will be the defenses. Some other do did it, the SOD side defense, or an alternate identity. In other words, Sybil, split personality. And I've already pegged it, Itami, his Japanese, alternate identity that he is used in his music. That said, Dr. Kendall Crowns,

I've got two things I want to put to you in the real world. Not created, fabricated, artificial stories as to who did it, what evidence supports our fake theories. I want to talk about the truth, the reality. Number one, the stench. Why does a dead body begin to smell? And I mean overwhelming. You may be immune to it by now.

I don't know. I've seen some cops or I've met the latem right here so they don't vomit. But it is overpowering. Why? So as a body decomposes, the bacteria that's in your system on your skin starts processing you down, turning you into more simple or matter forms, which is a process of decomposition. And in this process, the bacteria produce, among other things, a gas. This gas can be hydrogen, sulfide, methane, mercaptains, all those things mixed together.

But the main stench that you're talking about is this kind of rotten egg smell mixed with blood and meat. And that is the breakdown product from the bacteria being produced that they produce this gas. And it causes the body to swell and bloat, among other things, and stink. and that starts at about three days. Okay, but what I don't understand, I guess you're not the right person to throw this to, but why would you invite people into your home when there is the overwhelming smell of, okay,

you know what, I just want to watch this one more time as D4VD, David Anthony Burke, blames the decaying body stench of this little girl on him taking a crap in the commode. Watch this, and look at Neo's reaction. That's from at Secura Shimko on Twitch. Okay, you've explained it. But now, in more anecdotal terms, do you recall

the first time you ever smelled a dead body? I do remember the first time I smelled a dead body. I walked into the room. It was a decomposition. And the problem is, is I've actually had a lot of head trauma growing up, so I don't really smell things like other people smell them. So the dead body didn't actually bother me. But the chief medical examiner, she told me, she goes,

take a deep breath and tell me what you smell. And I said, well, I kind of smell a mild smell of eggs. And she goes, no, that's not correct. you're smelling money because that's what separates us from all the rest of the world as we can handle the decomposition smell. So I always remember that moment the first time I smelled a dead body. So Dr. Kendall Crowns, how is it that, okay, how is it that young medical examiners and rookie cops go to scenes? Because I've actually seen cops use this when they go. onto a dead body scene because they will vomit if they don't.

Talk about clearing your sinuses. This will work 100% natural soothes and comforts. How do they do it? Because these people were laughing like nothing was wrong. So one thing is you can develop a tolerance over time to the smell. One of the things we tell news people is to breathe through their mouth and not the nose. and over time you will become accustomed to it. The use to things like mentholatum is just masking the problem.

You just have to get used to it. And in a situation where you're sitting where with the body rotting over time, the smell permeating your house, if you're in it all the time, you eventually get used to that. And that's why he's telling guests, oh, that smell you're smelling is because I've used the bathroom. It's because he's used to it, but he knows what the truth is, but he wants to normalize it so they don't think anything of it.

Straight out to Dave Mack joining us, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. We also learn, we think, about the secret late-night trip to Santa Barbara. We now know that according to the state, and these are allegations yet to be proven, the night Celeste was murdered. Some of her belongings or evidence were discarded, and Santa Barbara explained.

Nancy, there was a late night trip taken to Santa Barbara by David Anthony Burke, according to everything we're seeing at this point. And he deliberately took evidence of Celeste Revis with him. And in particular, her passport was tossed out, thrown out, put aside somewhere around State Road 154 in Santa Barbara County. We know this for a couple of reasons. Investigators have been able to track his movements with that Tesla using the Tesla and his phone. But a Caltrans worker, Nancy, seven months after David Anthony Burke heads to Santa Barbara County finds Celeste Reva's passport card and a few other things in that State Road 154 area of Santa Barbara County. New details are now emerging with the ability to place D4VD in Santa Barbara County. He has ties to Santa Barbara County and he's accused of disposing evidence near Lake Kuchuma

immediately after allegedly killing Celeste in his Hollywood Hills home. Now, two special guests joining us and you guys know him well. Tom Smith joining us, former NYPD Detective 30 years robber. narcotics, homicide star of gold shields. You know what? They always say it's the cover up. It's the cover up. Because the cover up very often leads trails of evidence.

And here, I'm sure they're doing this by tracking his phones or his Tesla. He goes all the way to Santa Barbara, which according to documents, is where he repeatedly visits, they quote, an isolated site of Highway 154 where Rivas passport card was found. by the Caltrans worker, just as Dave Mac told us. Now, what is her passport card doing out there, and they can trace his car there? It's what I expect them to show. Idiot.

Oh, yeah, and we rely on that, Nancy. But here's the thing, and you're exactly right. When people commit crimes that normally commit crimes, they're good at the initial crime. He murdered her, he disbanded her. Great. He doesn't and cannot anticipate what's coming down the road. So they start to panic and they start to get rid of things and make trips and all of that.

But what they don't know is the technology that's in the pocket of law enforcement these days and the ability to trace them and track them wherever they go. And then one of the most important things in this is setting up the timeline from that technology. So you're able to put people in specific places during that time. because you know they're in that area. And that is a tremendous boost to the prosecution, to the investigation, because it'll pinpoint who is around that area where they are. This is tremendous, and that's why technology today is so important to law enforcement

and prosecution teams because it enables them to do this. Back to Caitlin Becker, joining a senior national correspondent at The New York Post and the star of a hit podcast, NY Postcast, Caitlin, think it through for Pete's sake. What was going on in his head goes all the way to Santa Barbara to get rid of other evidence like the passport in some remote area near a lake, but reportedly renders her body, disarticulates it at the home in a kitty pool, leaving blood evidence, and then puts her in his trunk. He goes all the way to Santa Barbara to get rid of what, her passport, her purse. but he leaves her body in his trump to be found. It kind of reads like exactly what you shouldn't do if you commit a crime.

It's like the opposite of any kind of logical sense. Looking at the way the prosecution is laying out their evidence, as we learned from some of the prelim documents that we're going to hear more about at the upcoming prelim hearing, the way they lay it out, as you said, the cover up is often worse than the, crime. But the coverup seems so poorly thought out, but also really detailed and chaotic, that it does seem like that's what's going to be what comes back to kind of bite him in the behind. And we know that there's cameras outside of the home with surveillance footage. So we know

likely when the Tesla left that night, when the Tesla came back, there's a zillion cameras on the road around where he lives, or he lived in Los Angeles. So I'm guessing they picked up the Tesla in all of those places. So to have driven that far, to get rid of a couple of things to then come back but keep the body, the most damning evidence there is in this case. In the home is confusing. It's moronic, really, for a lack of a better term. It's absolutely moronic. And back to your earlier point about Neo and what Neo knew and that kind of telling look that he had in that video, if Neo was in the house more than two hours before when David allegedly said that's when he went to the bathroom, he would have smelled the smell. And it did seem like he's

someone in his circle that would have been there. So this smell would have been in the house for days now or at least hours or a day. So I don't think anybody, if they didn't know that she was decomposing in the home, would have believed that this was the bathroom, a bathroom incident. So it does, it stands to reason that all of those people that he was bringing in and out of his house, my guess is to kind of make it look like his life was going on normally. would be able to attest to as soon as that smell started happening and just how gross it was. I mean, I couldn't handle when my fridge broke and I came home from a trip after two days and the food went bad. So the fact that there would be a body rotting in the house, I have to

imagine everyone in there would have been gagging. I think that they were just kind of sucking it up because proximity to celebrity is something that changes how people act and maybe that had something to do with it, but all of those people, I think, are going to be the biggest witnesses to tie him to the actual action of doing it in addition to all of the evidence that the prosecutors have. It's Harry Styles, live in London, England at Wembley Stadium. This is Harry Styles. I-Hart Radio wants to send you and a mate across the pond with flights from Virgin Atlantic,

hotel from TripCentral.C.A., tickets, and $1,000 cash. Here we got it! Download the free IHartRadio app. to Iheart new music for 10 minutes. Enter to win. Every day is another chance to see Harry Styles. Very excited to see you with the show. Kiss all the time. Disco occasionally available now.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us out of Tarrant County, Texas. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I did not let Joanna Nevis off the hook with her theory that maybe some other minor girls or a minor girl, another minor girl,

that D4VD, David Anthony Burke was seeing, could have committed the crime, I guess, a jealous 13-year-old. So you'd have to suspend your disbelief in reality and assume that the other minor girl sneaks into D4VD's home, murder Celeste out, anybody finding out, and then to avoid her, the minor girl, taking the fall, David Anthony Burke decides to disarticulate Celeste himself. in a kiddie pool.

But can you talk to us, school us, on what her COD, cause of death actually is, which is hard to do when someone is rendered, disarticulated? How do you determine COD? And could a little girl, a 13-year-old girl, let's just say, we're in Alice in Wonderland right now. This is pretend, right? Because another little minor girl did not do this. But if you get an argument like that at trial that Joanne and Nevis could probably argue successfully to a jury, what facts disprove it?

Let's deal with the facts. How was she murdered? So currently, the cause of death is listed as multiple penetrating injuries. He has two injuries to basically her torso, one on the right abdomen, one on the left side of the chest. These wounds are described as smoothed edge wounds. Now, to me, that's a stab wound. They're just not classifying as stab wounds because of the decomposition. The one to the right abdomen goes through the liver.

The one in the left side of the chest goes into the chest cavity but doesn't hit the lung. The one in the liver is a fatal wound. She'll bleed out in a batter of minutes, at minimum 10 minutes. Could be more. He also then has injuries to her back, which they don't classify. as actual wounds, but they're not sure what these injuries are, and they don't describe any hemorrhage or soft tissue injuries with them. I think they could be test tries with the chainsaws. They could also be cuts with a knife? Now, the question is, is could a 13-year-old stab her?

Certainly. How can you prove that it wasn't somebody other than D4VD? You can't. You can't prove that someone else didn't stab her. That's something that law enforcement would have to figure out, plus the fact that there's so much decomposition, you're going to have trouble getting DNA evidence and things like that from her as well. So it's hard to say what happened. But I would like to point out, he ordered two chainsaws. So you've got to wonder if he has an accomplice. Caitlin Becker joining us, New York Post. What all did he order quite a bit? Quite a bit. It, I can't even, this whole case kind of hurts my head with the list of things that point to him being the culprit here.

Ordered a two shovels from Home Depot. Ordered a body bag. Ordered two chainsaws. Ordered the kiddie pool. Ordered a burn pit after the fact. Every single one of these things feels like it would be incriminating on their own just looking at it. But the fact that it happened all in quick succession afterwards and that he allegedly

used a fake name, Victoria M. Mendez to order as if no one would figure out that it was actually him ordering them to his home because he was using a fake name. It's insane. Wow. Okay. So we've got chainsaws. We've got a home incinerator. We have the blue kitty pool. It goes on and on the shovel, the body bag, an actual body bag with handles on the side, heavy-duty laundry bags, the pool. That said, unearthed now, more video of D4VD, David Anthony Burke, with who we think is Celeste. And recall, all of these are allegations now. David Anthony Burke is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, until the state pierces the presumption of innocence with evidence,

proving his guilt, beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, I want you to see the video we've unearthed that appears to be Burke with Celeste. So I've got a question. This question. I'm so serious. Why do you think we matter? Yeah, why do you think we matter?

What I think, personally, I... Have you ever heard of the invisible strength theory? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly that. We met because we're supposed to meet. Okay. And we're connected because we're supposed to be connected.

It's kind of like that I loved you before I existed and I love you even when I died. Yes. That is David Anthony Birkin, who we believe to be this little girl, Celeste Rivas, that he met when she was 11 years old. I mean, Dr. Cheryl, this little girl was. was led to believe, according to the state, that she and Burke had a feature together, marriage, children. One particularly poignant photo to me is her ring finger, which was, by the way, amputated to hide the fact that his name, David,

was tattooed on it. She actually was wearing an engagement ring. This little girl thought they were getting married and having a family, and she's talking about how they were connected before they existed and that she will love him even after she dies. She did. This is so chilling and harrowing. And this is something that we see a lot in sexual abuse cases with a young victim in the grooming process. That this is something where the child believes that they are in a relationship, they're in a romantic.

relationship that that that it isn't abused that that something is going to happen in the future she thought she was important to him and the the video you played is so heartbreaking because she I see a girl who is trying to advocate for herself and speak up why don't you hold my hand anymore she wants there are other codes she wants something more for herself she was in love with him and he treats her like she's completely disposable, like she's garbage. He ordered her delivered to him, as you said, and then he ordered all of these things to hide her body delivered to him as well.

I really think that the combination of the age difference and his status and his celebrity and that way that can change people in how they relate and the things they let pass and how dazzling it must have been for this child to have this special attention and get to travel. And even when her parents tried to take away her phone or keep her from seeing him, it seems like they were no match for him being able to go and bribe and use the resources that he had to have access to her. And it sounds like she just wanted to love him and was trying to. to get him to see her and show that she mattered. And this is so chilling and so incredibly tragic.

And you know, Nancy, the idea that this sort of split personality defense, and I understand defense attorneys need to come up with something, it just makes me think of when we covered the Jodi Arias case and she said, ninjas came in and did it, and she didn't, it just seems so incredibly. out there. And if, you know, as a forensic psychologist, if someone says, I didn't do it, my split personality self did it, you still need to contain the same person in a controlled

environment. And it'll be very interesting to see what they do in terms of the defense that they go for a psychological defense because that's a tough road to go. to say that this was dissociative, that there was some kind of split personality. We would need to see a lot of fragmentation and splitting, a lot of psychological evidence that I have not seen thus far. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I haven't seen it. And if someone were in an altered state, I don't know that they would be able to do all of the things that seem to indicate premeditation. If you know or think you know anything regarding the murder of Little Celeste Rivas, please call 213-486-6890. We remember American hero investigator,

Anthony Freeman, Bibb County Sheriff's Georgia, killed in the line of duty after seven years, leaving behind his wife now widow, Jessica, and two children, Braden and Blaklin, sentenced to life without dad. American hero, investigator Anthony Freeman. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.