Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Dad dead after evil sniper targeting innocent campers? Infant found at trash site with umbilical cord still attached

Episode Date: July 5, 2018

A California campground used as the production location for M*A*S*H is now a crime scene. Nancy Grace looks at the fatal shooting of a father camping with his kids at the Malibu park. Her experts include family lawyer Kathleen Murphy, private investigator Vincent Hill, body language expert Susan Constantine, juvenile judge Ashley Willcott, & CrimeOnline.com reporter Leigh Egan. Medical examiner Dr. Michelle DuPre joins Grace to examine the case of a newborn baby found abandoned near a dumpster. Nancy also updates the case of 10-year-old Anthony Avalos, who was allegedly murdered by his parents after he indicated he liked boys. Prosecutor Kenya Johnson, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, psychologist Caryn Stark, and reporter Robyn Walensky take part.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Did you know a recent law can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on the news lately, you know the internet has created a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the power by using a new website called Truthfinder. Have you been issued a speeding ticket? Received a lien from the IRS? Did you forget about an embarrassing social media profile? That info may already be online. Truthfinder can help you find it. Truthfinder searches millions of public records, assembling

the data together in one report. Members get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. Visit truthfinder.com slash Nancy. Enter your own name. Get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. How many times have I taken the children camping or on hikes or nature walks? That is exactly what a young dad was doing with his two daughters, ages two and four, taking them on a camping trip so his wife, a doctor, could study for exams. So dad goes off with some daddy and me time with the two-year-old and the four-year-old little girl, and he doesn't make it out alive. Gunned down dead in his tent on the camping trip

as his two little girls look on. We want justice. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Dad of two, Tristan Beaudet, shot dead at a campsite, Malibu Creek State Park. Shot in his tent in front of his two little girls. He dies at the scene. The nature-loving dad, also an esteemed scientist. Straight out to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Chuck Roberts. Chuck, tell me what happened. Let's start with that. Nancy, Tristan Baudet, a 35-year-old research chemist, as you said, went out with his two young daughters Thursday evening from their home in Irvine to a park called Malibu Creek State Parks, about 30 miles away. 63 campsites there. It was

full at the time. And shots were running out around 4.30 a.m. on Friday morning. They didn't even make it one night. 911 calls came in, and police found him bleeding from a gunshot wound in the upper torso inside his tent with his little 2-year-old and 4-year-old present, and he died at the scene. Who called 911? Apparently other campers who heard gunfire. Justin Beaudet married to his high school sweetheart, a full-time partner in every sense of the word, to his wife, to his children, to his job. Go ahead, Chuck Roberts. Well, police think he was shot inside the tent as the young daughters were present,

but witnesses think the shots came from a distance, so there's some discrepancy there. And there's absolutely no motive. There's no suspect. There's no description to follow. Police have no real leads, at least leads that they're disclosing. The only thing we know about him is that he was changing jobs, moving from the L.A. area to the Bay Area with his wife. He was a researcher for a company called Allergan, a manufacturer of anti-autism drugs, and he was known as an anti-vaccination advocate. Alternative media is alive with speculation that that might have been part of the motive,

but there's been really no connection at all. I mean, really, Jason Oceans, criminal defense attorney, you remember when I was getting the twins vaccinated, I was so freaked out about it, and they're supposed to get vaccines in bundles, and you and I talked and talked and talked about it, about what you did with your boy and girl, and I would refuse to get the bundles, and we would be going back like every X amount of days to get the next vaccine because typically they'll do like your MMR, measles, mumps, rubella, bam. Oh, no, not me.

I was on the edge. I didn't know what to believe, what was right, what was wrong. There's a lot of controversy swirling around that. But do I believe somebody gunned down a father of two in front of his children on a camping trip when the whole vaccine brouhaha is to protect children? So one of these people love children so much they want to gun down a dad of two in front of their children this has nothing to do with the vaccine controversy okay since i've established that what do you think jason well i i think the fact that there was another shooting just the other day in the park is significant. I mean, is someone there randomly doing it,

or is it just random intentional by that shooting into tents? That distance is isolated, and certainly the ballistics will give us a better idea of the distance that it traveled and where it was from. But, you know, that MMR and all those shots, that's seemingly a red herring into this. That's totally a red herring. Totally.

I want to talk about what we know, and Jason Oceans brought something up very significant. Karen Smith, following the shooting death, the murder of Tristan Baudet, there's been another shooting in the same park. What's happening, Karen? How do you piece this together to make some sense of it? And what can we glean regarding forensics? There's a lot we can glean from forensics. And actually, a red flag went up when I just heard that some of the witnesses said that the shots sounded like they came from a distance. My first instinct was to go, okay, well, apparently there were two holes

in the tent. And, you know, the brother said he wasn't sure if they were bullet holes. Well, if they were, my first instinct was to say, well, was there any gunpowder residue on the tent material? Or was it from a distance further than three feet away? Then I went to shoe prints at the scene. If that was a possibility, you know, if we're dealing with a semi-automatic gun, you're going to have casings left at the scene, and that'll give you an idea of some shoe prints that were left at the scene. If it was a revolver, you're not going to have casings, but you'll have projectiles left at the scene. Then when I heard that witnesses said it was a distance, I went straight to rifle.

And that is really frightening. If you have somebody that's positioned a distance away and they're targeting random tents or random people with a rifle, we're dealing with a whole different situation here, Nancy. That is somebody, this apparently could be their hunting ground. And that is terrifying to me.

So it's going to be ballistics. It's going to be comparisons between ballistics on this shooting and previous shootings to see if they can link these pieces together. Take a listen to what investigators have to say. 444 in the morning, the sheriffs received a 911 call and responded and found a male victim of a gunshot. Actually, out of abundance of caution, we're closing the campground. Out of abundance of caution for public safety, we care about our visitors and their safety is the most important thing. Karen Smith, forensics expert, brings up a very disturbing possibility, and I agree with her. To Dr. Daniel Bober joining

us, forensic psychiatrist. Sheriffs have confirmed that there were three other shooting incidents in the same area. One just four days before Beaudet was shot, two more, and now the one occurring immediately after Beaudet was murdered now nancy and that number has now been updated police tell us there have been seven shootings in and around the malibu creek state park since november of 2016 and last year melissa tatangelo encountered a shooting in the same park she posted a a video on Facebook January of 2017 showing where her Honda was shot while she was at the park. I walked around the back and at first I thought it was a joke. Then my boyfriend walked around and he was like that's a bullet hole and I

was like okay it is right. What that says to me is if the calibers match, we are looking at one gunman who is, as Karen Smith stated, using this as his hunting ground, Dr. Daniel Bober. I totally agree, Nancy. This is, you know, reminds me of the D.C. sniper case. You know, you've got, like you said, if the ballistics match up, if this guy is shooting people from an elevated position through the tents uh i mean you have a serial killer on your hands and uh this part as you said is his hunting ground there are the other shootings are now being reviewed as part of this current homicide investigation, which leads me to believe that authorities are investigating them as coming from one shooter. This guy, this poor young dad, Bodette, murdered in front of his two little girls, ages two and four, in Jason Oceans. I don't care how you slice it. It's still murder.

Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, it's horrible. I'm glad at least to know that law enforcement has, you know, triangulated these events and are focusing on one and where, and that sounds like a task force, and that, you know, that brings a lot more boots on the ground into this, which is critical. Well, this is kind of a famous area, actually, because the park is the filming site, before it was open to the public,

was the filming site of the outdoor set of MASH, the long-running TV series with Alden Alda and so many others, you know, Hawkeye, Radar, Winchester, Hot Lips, the whole, all of them. This was a very big draw, tourist attraction, now a park. There was an episode, Nancy, by the way,

there was an episode, Nancy, by the way, there was an episode of Nash where they had a sniper shooting at the camp. You tell me that it triggers to my youth of watching that show. I would hope that this that this sicko is is is not associated with that former episode of the camp being attacked by a sniper. Okay, you know, a lot of people would say that's far-fetched, but Jason Oceans, based on what I know about killers, especially serial killers, you never know what's setting them off. Hold on, Chuck Roberts, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, wants in, what is it you know about what sheriffs have commented regarding the other shootings?

Well, the state park superintendent, Tony Hoffman, said something that I found unusual. He said that rural areas get gunshots. I'm quoting directly now. People from the city know they can't shoot in the city and they go, oh, this doesn't look like a city. They stop on a wide turnout. They shoot. They hike down the trail and shoot. It's what we call plinkers. They're not really hunting.

They're not trying to kill anything. I'm still quoting. It's not uncommon for us to get reports of gunshots that usually end up being plinkers, And most of the time we show up, we don't find them. That's what he said. Chuck Roberts, better be glad you said you were quoting because I was just about to rip you a new tail hole on that one because here's how that works. It's called the Abandoned and Malignant Heart Theory of Murder 1.

Yes, of course, murder in the first degree, premeditated murder, can be when you plan out a long scheme like poisoning somebody every morning in their tea till they're dead. You can hire a hitman. That's murder one. Laying in wait is another premeditated murder. But the reality is murder one can be proven in many different ways, and that includes an abandoned or malignant heart. Okay, what is that? That's, for instance, driving your car at 90 mph into a street festival. When you act with such reckless abandon, it rises to a malignant heart where you endanger other people and end up killing somebody. Or like shooting into a campground area where tents are pitched.

Tents with a dad and two little girls in it. Yeah, that's an abandoned and malignant heart. I don't care if they call them clinkers or clinkers or whatever it is you just said. This guy is dead. What is our best chance, Karen Smith? I would say ballistics. At this point, that's all they've got, Nancy. They've got ballistics. They're going to have to recover the projectiles from the scene. They're going to have to scour the area to see if they find any bullet casings, if they were ejected, if it was a rifle and they fired more than one shot, they're going to have to eject at least one. If it was a semi-automatic, they will automatically eject. It doesn't sound like a revolver if we're

dealing with a distance shooting here. It also doesn't sound like a semi-automatic. They're going to have to scour that area and they're going to have to find every single link that they can. The ballistics on the projectiles that are recovered, they're going to have to do some serious comparisons to find out if it was the same gun and then do some tracing on that. Hopefully, the NIBIN network can provide some information on that, the National Ballistics Integrated Network. Well, I'm telling you, Karen, whoever did this, looking at murder one plus two counts of aggravated assault, the two little girls were in that tent as well. L.A. County Sheriff's Department says it has no more details it intends to release. This is an active homicide investigation. What more do we know? We know Bodette Brilliant. He graduated with a Ph.D. in chemistry for University of California, Berkeley, and had worked for Allergan in their pharmaceutical arena, but he was happiest outdoors. He spent every opportunity he could find hiking, biking, snowboarding, camping,

says the family. I've been looking at family postings of their photos during the weekend, and one, he's holding the hands of his two little girls as they stand on a shore and there's a wave crashing in. In another photo, he and his family are on the beach roasting s'mores. He's got one arm around his wife in her camp chair. The other is around his older daughter who's in a little camp chair for kids. It's just breaking my heart. The mother, Erica, was studying for an exam that was set for the next morning. They were both planning to move to the Bay Area for brand new jobs, and this was their final step before taking time off together as a family,

before they relocated. Everything was planned. They had worked their whole lives for this moment, and now Beaudet is dead and seemingly a random act of senseless violence please help us

solve the case who murdered Tristan Beaudet tip line 909-450-2700. There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about somebody? Maybe suspected your partner's cheating?

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This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Dallas police desperately searching, asking for help to find the mother of a little baby found abandoned near a garbage bin in Redbird. Joining me right now, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Lee Egan. Lee, how did this come about? How did they find the baby? Well, what happened was a lady that lived in the apartment complex found the baby lying in the grass with the umbilical cord still attached a few feet away from the dumpster. Hold on right there. Joining me right now, Lee, is Dr. Michelle Dupree, former pathologist, medical examiner,

now professor at Columbia College in South Carolina, also author of A Field Guide to Homicide Investigations and Child Abuse Investigation Field Guide. Dr. Dupree, what does it mean? What can we deduce from the fact that the umbilical cord was still attached? Nancy, this is, it was likely a traumatic birth. There was no prenatal care or no one in attendance, no medical person in attendance at birth. And this can cause some serious problems. In what way? Well, there's always the possibility of a hemorrhage. We don't know the status of the child, if there were any birth complications, if he or she was premature.

There can be infections by sepsis that would lead to other organs being damaged. There's just a whole array of things that may be problematic. Now, when we say the umbilical cord is still attached, what exactly does that mean? I mean, to my layperson's mind, it means the baby was just born. That is most likely the case. The umbilical cord provides blood from the placenta to the fetus. Usually there are two arteries in one vein. Again, there could be some abnormalities. This is where the hemorrhage could come from. Typically, the umbilical cord is clamped shortly after birth. And in this case, that was not done.

The reason the umbilical cord is clamped, to my understanding, is because the umbilical cord when we talk about hemorrhaging in regular people talk that's bleeding bleeding this baby is left with the umbilical cord still attached the umbilical cord is a tube that connects the mother to the baby during the pregnancy while the baby's in mommy's tummy. I think it has three blood vessels in the umbilical cord. One vein carries food and oxygen from the mom's placenta to the baby. And two of those arteries carry waste from the baby back into the placenta. And that is what's so significant that this umbilical cord is really three blood vessels, arteries. That baby could easily bleed out from the umbilical cord. This is significant.

The baby is born, and without the umbilical cord being removed and sorted or clamped, nothing, the baby is just thrown by the trash bin as if it's trash. I mean, isn't that true, Dr. Michelle Dupree, that a baby can actually, as you say, hemorrhage through the umbilical cord. That's why they clamp it. Yes, Nancy, that is true. Absolutely. Now, another issue about the umbilical cord. Isn't there such a thing as umbilical cord prolapse when the cord can get pinched, so to speak, and the baby can't get oxygen.

That's also true, Nancy. There's several different abnormalities of the medical cords. They can have knots in them. They can become entangled around the baby's neck. All of those things may prevent the baby from getting the oxygen that's needed to survive. So here's this baby, naked, alone, thrown by a dumpster. I mean, you know, Vincentcent hill you're the private investigator former nashville pd how many cases have we handled or investigated or covered about babies

abandoned you know on the black market this baby could go for 60 70 Adults are desperate to have a baby. They can't have a baby. And this baby's thrown out naked by the dumpster with the umbilical cord still attached, Vincent. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Nancy. In Nashville, I knew about the black market of babies being sold. So this is very tragic. Unfortunately, we hear about this all the time. But as an investigator, where I would start is anybody that lives in that apartment building where this young baby was discarded like, hey, you know anyone that was pregnant here? Oh, yes, I knew such and such. And she told me she had the baby. That's where I would start. Well, once again, Vincent Hill, the voice of reason.

Kathleen Murphy joining me, family law expert. Kathleen Murphy, what about safe haven laws? What are they? The safe haven law allows these women who are pregnant but are unable to keep their baby or they want their baby, they can usually victims themselves of the opioid crisis and the heroin use that I see on a day-to-day basis. They're having these children, and they're out of their minds. You know, Kathleen Murphy, I appreciate that because I have worked with many, many addicts on many, many different substances. But when it comes between the welfare of the addict and they, if this is, the mother is an addict, which I have no reason to believe. But if she is, then I've got an innocent baby. You know, the baby comes first in this scenario. So Ashley Wilcott, Atlanta juvenile judge,

lawyer and founder of childcrimewatch.com. What does it say to you that mommy leaves the baby, throws the baby by the trash dumpster? That she's committed a crime. That this is not, I don't care what state of mind the person is in. She has committed a crime. She's effectively murdered the baby because if no one finds the baby while the baby still happens to be alive, there's no excuse for it. There's no tolerance that we need to have, which is the reason for the safe haven laws. A lot of people don't know about them, but I would submit even women who know about them,

if they don't want their baby, are just going to throw their baby away. It's a horrible, horrible crime. To Dr. Michelle Dupree, former forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and now professor at Columbia College. Dr. Dupree, how long could a baby last in the elements, on the ground by a dumpster where dogs and animals come in the night to scavenge? So much of that does depend on exactly what you said, the environment that the child is found in, and also prenatal care that the child received. What was the condition when the child was born?

Are there any complications? So that can vary. The child can't survive very long, even in the best of conditions. So this is absolutely privacy. I mean, just thinking, Dr. Dupree, just thinking about possums and raccoons and feral dogs and cats coming up on that baby with the umbilical cord just hanging there, probably still bleeding. I just, you know, I'm going to go back to CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter Lee Egan.

So who did you tell me finds the baby? Yeah, there was a lady that found the baby, and she actually, they were new to the area. They had no idea where a hospital was. So she waited for her husband to come home, and they Googled a hospital in nearby Grand Prairie, Texas, drove the baby there. The woman new to the area finds the baby on watershed lane by a dumpster

at 9 30 p.m waited for her husband to come home lee egan you're telling me what why did she call 9-1-1 right then the only thing she told police was that they were new to the area and she wanted to wait to speak with her husband. So for whatever reason, why she didn't call 911, I don't know, but I know this. She got the baby. She picked the baby up. She and her husband get the baby in the car. They look up Texas Health on a cell phone, and they drive the baby to Texas Health.

Right now, police searching desperately for the mother of this baby abandoned in Redbird. The baby, the newborn, found alive, abandoned near a dumpster in North Texas. I'm taking a look at the dumpster right now. I mean, it's exactly what you, it's filthy. The area around it is filthy. So the baby is found on a Saturday at 9 30 at night. What does that tell you? Private investigator, former cop Vincent Hill. Well, Nancy, we don't know exactly how long the baby had been out there, but what I would suspect is since the baby was not placed in the dumpster, whoever she could have gone about getting rid of the baby a different way there's options to do that wait a minute i want to follow up on what you're saying

vincent hill i mean ashley wilcott you want the baby to be found all right how about putting it in a basket in a blanket on somebody's doorstep why would you put it by the trash on the ground at night when you know animals are going to cut around that trap the dumpster how's that helping the baby it's not i don't believe that whoever had birth to this baby did it and put the child there to be found i don't agree with that at all i think the person didn't give a flip-flop about what happened to this baby and disposed of it as quickly, as efficiently, as easily as they could to get rid of the baby, period. Texas safe haven laws allow moms who are not able or simply don't want to take care of their newborn children to hand them over at designated

locations like fire stations, police stations. Apparently, a lot of people aren't aware of this, but common sense tells you not to leave the baby at the trash dumpster. Now, back to Dr. Michelle Dupree, former forensic pathologist, medical examiner, my longtime colleague, now a professor at Columbia College. Dr. Dupree, if the baby, again, back to the umbilical cord, I'm focusing on it now on a different perspective, not the health perspective or the danger to the baby's life, but evidentially, what does it mean? It says to me, the baby was not born in a hospital or with a doctor or at a clinic. The baby was delivered without any assistance. And somebody who had just gone through childbirth was hell bent on getting rid of that baby. What does it say to you, Dr. Dupree? You're absolutely right.

That's the same thing that it indicates to me. Again, the status of the umbilical cord and just simply discarding the baby like that. The safe haven laws are such a comfort or should be to anyone who does have a child that they don't want to keep. There's no reason that they could not turn that child over to one of the safe havens. Back to Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. So where does it stand now? They're still looking for witnesses. They still have not identified who the mother is, the father, nothing. I believe Mr mr hill said they were going door to door that is exactly what they did to you they're looking still haven't found anything

at this hour no other witnesses have been found police desperately searching for the mother anyone with information please call detectives at 214-275-1321 repeat 214-275-1321. Repeat, 214-275-1321. The baby has survived, but the investigation goes on. A beautiful little boy, just 10 years old, is dead. Reportedly from a fall, but now, suspicious and severe head injuries have been determined. Not only that, his body covered in cigarette burns. Is it true that little Anthony is the victim of not only his killer, but of Child Protective Services, who has received no less than 16 calls warning him the little boy was being horribly abused? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Joining me right now,

CrimeOnline.com, contributing investigative reporter Robin Walensky. Robin, what can you tell me about the discovery of little Anthony's body? Well, this is a horrendous case of child abuse. Clearly, Nancy, that had gone on for quite some time. They found him with head injuries and he was covered in cigarette burns. You know, one can only imagine the pain that this little boy was in. You know, he was one of eight children ranging in age from 11 months to 12 years old. Horrendous abuse. The Child Protective Service is called over and over again, and absolutely nothing was done. We are talking about the death of little 10-year-old Anthony Avalos. Take a listen to his aunt talking about Anthony's death.

He was such a wonderful child, full of life. How does a child fall in this heaven? He told us that he would get locked up and he wasn't allowed to use the bathroom. Anthony deserves justice and the rest of my nieces and nephews do not deserve to go back to her. They don't. That is the aunt of Anthony Avalos talking about the child's death. But when questioned, the Department of Child and Family Services Director Bobby Cagle says this. Well, you have to have a level of proof in order to get a court to give you an order of that type. Once you have a child recant, that somewhat compromises your ability to get those warrants. He had a severe head injury consisting of a brain bleed plus bruises and abrasions all about his body. All that indicates me that that's not accidental. To Joseph Scott Morgan,

Forensics Expert, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University author of blood beneath my feet the journey of a southern death investigator Joe Scott this is all BS okay that's a technical legal term you might want to include it as a footnote in your next book because this child did not die from a fall you don't get injuries like this not saying you can't get a head injury from a fall. You don't get injuries like this. I'm not saying you can't get a head injury from a fall, but your body isn't covered in bruises of this nature. Plus the cigarette burns from a fall. Yeah. Anytime, anytime someone approaches me with a case like this and they say, yeah, he is the child or the person was involved. This is saying to fall.

I'd say, well, how many damn times did they fall? Because this child looks like, you know, from what I'm hearing, as if the child had been through multiple car accidents. Not only do you have this nasty closed head injury that kind of finalized everything, you've also got these little circular burns all over his body. And I've seen these in case after case after case over my career, Nancy, where someone was essentially using this poor little angel as an ashtray. And this is a painful, painful way to die. Not to mention anything that they had done to him and he didn't receive further treatment you have

all kinds of problems that can develop from that like secondary infections and things like this torturous life that this child obviously led maria baron anthony's aunt said that she had frequently voiced her concerns about anth's mother, Heather Barron, and her live-in boyfriend, Kareem Leva. To Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. Ashley, I'm not buying any of this business about a fall. As a matter of fact, this child and the sibling should have been taken out of the home a long time ago. That aunt has been calling CPS since 2015.

Now the boy is dead. What, do you think they've got enough evidence now, Ashley? Two words. System failed. There were over 16 reports over an extended period of time of different types of abuse to this particular child. The agency should have done more, has missed something, and it's absolutely incumbent that everyone is aware, how do we prevent this in the future? Because this should not have happened. This agency failed. I do not believe it was a fall.

They abused this child to death. There were 12 complaints for sure, although the aunt says 15. Between 2013 and 2016, including claims of sex abuse on the child made by a grandparent. I mean, how can that be ignored? Robin Walensky joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Robin, how can CPS, this guy Bobby Cagle, stand up with his

straight face and exhibit no concern about all the complaints his agency had failed to act upon? Nancy, the agency is totally negligent. How can you look at this boy's skin and see the bumps and bruises, see the cigarette burns, which are so obvious?

There are allegations that the mother and the boyfriend withheld food from these kids, Nancy, forced them to eat from the trash can, and even an allegation from the aunt that they were dangled upside down from a staircase. I mean, how sick is that? It wasn't just the family as well. There were school administrators, teachers, a counselor, all calling in, in addition to what Robin Walensky is telling us about by the aunt and the grandparent, all calling in, begging for defects to do something. The children, age 11 months to 12 years old, Anthony being just 10 years old, all of them at risk, sexual abuse, beaten, bruised, forced to have a kid fight club, making the children fight each other, eat from the trash. All of this is from Department Child Family Services Director Bobby Cagle. So explain something to me, Ashley. Why isn't DFACS being held accountable?

Well, listen, you all may recall that Commissioner Bobby Cagle was the previous commissioner of DHS here in Georgia. And he is going to, I will say this, I do believe he will do a very, very thorough investigation into what happened and how the ball was dropped. Who cares, Ashley, about an investigation about why he's dead? I want to know why they didn't take him out of the home. And that's what I was going to say. I have never seen an agency in any state come out and say, uh-oh, our fault. We dropped the ball. Neglect. We did this. We shouldn't have done this. He shouldn't have been killed. It's on us. They don't do that, right? They go into bureaucratic protection mode. And that's why it's so important you air shows like this for everyone to realize the only way we can make the system better is to hold them accountable

because that doesn't currently exist. I'm just looking right now at a photo of this little child in the hospital. It looks like he's got a neck brace on. He's got all sorts of things strapped to his head. His face is covered in bruises. I see a cigarette burn on the side, the right side of his chest, almost under his arm. Karen Stark, I need to shrink in a big way. How can parents do this to little children? Well, you're not talking about your everyday wonderful parent, Nancy.

You're talking about people who are sadistic and don't have a conscience. And so they're displacing any unhappiness that they have. about people who are sadistic and don't have a conscience. And so they're displacing any unhappiness that they have, unfortunately, onto these children and acting out their own fantasies as sick as it may be. And really, it's just horrendous to consider that there were reports being made, people trying to do something about it, and no one was able to pull these kids away from the home because these are not fit parents, and they're not the parents that you encounter when you go to a PTA meeting and you deal with so-called normal parents. These are people who want to punish their children and want them to eat garbage. Joseph Scott Morgan with me, forensics expert and author of Blood Beneath My Feet.

Joseph Scott, what more can you tell me about this child's body? Well, he languished, Nancy, over a protracted period of time. This was not a death that came swiftly to him. It was something that was torturous. It was long. You know, we've got these images of him laying on ICU, being able to, you know, where they're having to assist him with just breathing. It culminated, I think, in a long, torturous end to his life. With me, Atlanta prosecutor Kenya Johnson. Kenya, weigh in.

It is amazing that in this day and age that this could go on to such a level and not even the community step in. I understand that they made phone calls, but who did something? Who was actually in this child's life that could have intervened? And just these children, period. We want to look at, see if they were getting financial assistance from welfare. Was there a case manager that was to be checking in on them regularly? There's so many questions. So many people had eyes on this that they should have been outraged the principal should have refused to let the children go home at night uh it just there's so many things that people could have done to step in uh but those that are most criminally responsible

are those that were charged with taking care of these kids, which are going to be the state and their parents. And now we are learning that there are reports, unverified reports, but reports, Karen Stark, New York psychologist, that just before his horrific murder, he had stated the words that he liked boys. Some people have taken that to mean that he announced that he was gay and then is dead. Well, you know, he may have announced that he was gay, but I don't know how that has anything to do. You know, that's very brave on his part, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he was abused and that he should have been taken out of that home. It makes you wonder whether there wasn't something going on at school as well where

kids were teasing him and cruel. But if you add that to the psychological trauma of being in that situation at home, the horrific set of circumstances, it has very little to do with what we're talking about. You know what? I don't understand something. I'm going to throw this to you, Ashley Wilcott, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com. Why do we hear so much about the Turpin family in California, the house of horrors? What, because they were educated and had money and a beautiful home that their children, and

I'm not saying they're not important to me because they are, but nobody seems to care about this little kid. It's like nothing. And the whole family was mistreated. I don't know why. Clearly, I think there's evidence for certain crimes. And I will say this, and it's really a shame, but the reality is, regrettably, often demographics play a role in who pays attention and cares about a child and a murderer

going free or not. We wait as the investigation unfolds. And frankly, I think a criminal investigation needs to be launched on DFACS, Department of Family and Children's Services. Right now, we remember American hero, Officer Jillian Michelle Smith, Arlington, Texas, police officer. She graduated University of Texas cum laude with a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and criminology, a longtime member of Mount Olive Baptist Church in Arlington. Smith had just completed her field training 15 days before she was shot down in the line of duty as she was shielding an 11-year-old little girl. Jillian Michelle Smith leaves behind grieving parents Douglas and Sonia, sister Jessica, nephew Cameron, and many other loving relatives who miss her dearly.

Officer Jillian Michelle Smith, American Hero. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble for people with something to hide. Have you ever had a bad feeling about somebody? Maybe suspected your partner's cheating? Maybe worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to any of those questions, you may need Truthfinder. Public records are only recently easily available online. Before websites like Truthfinder, you'd most likely have to visit a courthouse to get that information.

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