Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Dad opens fire on masked intruder: Will Daddy be charged?

Episode Date: January 14, 2021

Multiple investigations occur at a Texas home after a father of two shoots and kills an intruder. Police say three masked individuals entered the home held the family at gunpoint. The dad uses a rifle to defend his family. The next day, the home was shot at, and a few hours later a fire was reported there.Joining Nancy Grace today: Ken Belkin – NY Criminal Defense Attorney  Caryn Stark – NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com Chris Byers - former Police Chief Johns Creek Georgia, 25 years as Police Officer, now Private Investigator and Polygraph Examiner, www.chrisbyersinvestigationsandpolygraph.com  Dr. Kendall Crowns – Deputy Medical Examiner Travis County, Texas (Austin)  Ray Caputo - Lead News Anchor for Orlando's Morning News, 96.5 WDBO Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. You ever wake up in the middle of the night and you think you hear something? Well, in Port Arthur, Texas, that bump in the night and now he's looking at murder charges take a listen to this breaking overnight out of port arthur two armed robbers are on the run one person is is dead. Now, Port Arthur police are investigating a robbery that happened on 18th Street near DeQueen Street just before 9 p.m. last night. Police say three men forcibly entered the home as a female resident was arriving and held the family at gunpoint. Police say children were inside the home at the time. So everybody's asleep.

The dad, the man in the home, hears something. It's armed intruders in the home. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Should daddy be charged with murder? First of all, Ken Belkin with me. New York criminal defense attorney knows his way around the courtroom. You can find him at BelkinLaw.com. Renowned psychologist joining us out of Manhattan is Karen Stark with a C at

KarenStark.com. Former police chief in Johns Creek, 25 years with the police force. Now he is at Chris Byers Investigations and Polygraph.com. Joining me out of Austin, Texas, Deputy Medical Examiner Travis County. That's Austin, Dr. Kendall Kraus. But first, Trey Caputo, lead news anchor at WDBO. Ray, tell me about Port Arthur. What is that? It's a sleepy little city. It's right there on the Gulf Coast, Nancy, not far from Beaumont.

I mean, couldn't get any closer to the Gulf than where it's at. And it's not far from Houston. But long story short is it's, you know, it's got some industry, but a lot of rural communities, little neighborhoods like where this happened. You know what you're reminding me of, Ray Caputa? You're reminding me of when I first went to the scene of Lacey Peterson's murder. And people think, they hear California and they think L.A. or Sacramento or San Diego or San Francisco, a big city. Modesto was nothing like that. I remember I drove down the end of Lacey Peterson Street and there was a, I guess it was an olive farm. It was full of farming country, beautiful, beautiful farm country,

all sorts of trees, groves, you name it. And when most people think of Texas, a lot of them, not me, but a lot of people think of Dallas or Houston, but it's not all like that at all. Go ahead. Yeah. Well, Port Arthur, you know, I know you're going to get on me, but it's not, you know, a place where a lot of folks, you know, see this sort of thing or see high crime, but. Oh, wait a minute. You know, you knew I was going to jump on that, right? It doesn't happen here. How many times have you heard that, Chief Byers? It just doesn't happen in our neighborhood. Oh, absolutely. You know, I've spent during my 25 year career, I worked all sides of metro Atlanta, and I've worked in the high crime areas.

And then I finished out my last 13 years in what was named the safest city in Georgia for six or seven years straight, number like 14 in the country. And we had every one of the crimes that I dealt with when I worked in South Atlanta, maybe not as frequently, but every one of those crimes happened right here in Johns Creek. So people have that false sense of security when they live in what they deem a safe area. Yeah, I will never forget prosecuting in inner city Atlanta. I had tons. That's the height of the drug trade at that time. Atlanta, one of the murder capitals of the world because of the drug trade. Lots and lots and lots of murders in inner city and South Atlanta as you head toward the airport. But I'll never forget when I went into a wealthy enclave off of North Roswell Road, the Long Island Drive area. And I pulled in and went to the scene. And when I got

back out into my car, when I left several hours later, people were in their front yards just looking. They could not believe that a crime had occurred there. And I guess that's what you're telling me, Ray Caputo. Nancy, it's not, it's not without its crime, but if you ask residents, you know, a lot of them are, you know, they don't see, you don't see violent crime like that. But you know what, then again, if you look at crime statistics for any city, not a lot of people expect murders and rapes and robberies to happen on a daily basis. Well, especially in your own home. I mean, Ken Belkin, a veteran criminal defense attorney out of New York at BelkinLaw.com.

You know, in law school, we studied every theory of criminal law about mens rea, intent, malignant heart, wild abandonment, you name it. But I think a jury can normally assume when an intruder comes into your home, you shoot him dead. It's not your fault. I'm sure you're going to disagree. Hit me. I'm ready, Ken Belkin. I mean, I would want to defend this guy because he's got a super castle doctrine defense. He was defending his children in his home.

And these three people came in as a home invasion. And he took one of them out. And quite frankly, i think he was within his rights to do so and i'd love to have that case hey belkin for once you and i agree i mean karen stark think about it you live in the heart of manhattan uh not too far from where david the twins and i are and imagine all safe and snug and tucked in and then somebody is in your home. It's not like you're walking down the street and some hateful person mugs you, hits you on the head, steals your pocketbook.

You're at home minding your own business. When someone intrudes, that's the worst nightmare scenario. Well, I think, Nancy, I think you're correct in saying that you'd be very happy if you had some kind of a weapon in a situation like that. I guess it depends if you're allowed to have that gun, if it's legal that you have it. How did you get on gun control when I asked you about the psychology of feeling safe in your own home? You know, don't start me up on Second Amendment, okay? Because you know how I hate guns. Hate, hate, hate guns.

I'm a victim of gun violence myself. But I don't think that that right should be taken away from us and just wiped out in the Constitution. Now, can we get back on the psychology of feeling safe in your own home but you're not well and that's that's the part of this incident that's most frightening i think is that anybody would be glad if they had something that they could protect themselves especially when it comes to children people are fierce about their families and their children. I can understand completely. I think that most people in that circumstance would do

the exact same thing. And, you know, Karen Starr, you and I have covered so many cases where a child goes missing from the home, where a child is hurt in the home. With all the cases we've covered and that I've prosecuted, I get up all during the night and just go peek on the twins. I just look at them, make sure they're in their bed, make sure they're still breathing, and then try to go back to sleep. You know, that was actually the scenario here. So Port Arthur, low crime, rural area, some business. So what happened in this case? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about a shooting in a residential area in someone's own home. Everybody in the home, at night, minding their own business,

when three armed intruders bust in. Ray Caputo, Lead News Anchor, WDBO. I understand they had their faces covered. Yeah, Nancy, like a lot of robbers do. But what happened was they had followed the mother who had just got home into the house. Now, inside was the dad. There was a couple kids. One of them was young, five years old.

Tell me that again, because that's, Jackie, do you remember the case of Dr. Pettit up in New England? And his wife and daughter, I think is the way it went, had been to the store and two or three evildoers followed them home, made the mom go and withdraw money from the bank. They targeted that home. They waited. They hit Mr. Ellis, Dr. Ellis, I think it was, in the head, made him, tied him all up he was immobile then raped and killed the daughters and the mother this set the house on fire from following her home following her home so ray caputo that's how the whole thing started they followed the mom home i don't know if they followed her home but they certainly were lying in wait nancy. They could have been outside. They could have followed her home. They may have seen that she went to an ATM, a certain store, but they were ready because right after she got home, it wasn't long after that these masked

intruders with their guns busted up in that home. That tells me a lot right there, Ken Belkin at BelkinLaw.com, New York criminal defense attorney. They, did you hear what Ray Caputo said? The words, they were ready. There's no way around premeditation. How often do you go visit someone's home, Belkin, with your face mask and your gun with you? Well, given the fact that I live in New York, you know, we can't really even have guns in the city. But in any event, I always have my mask on due to COVID. Long story short, guys, what I'm trying to call car pull out of Belkin is that when you go, let's just say to a bank and you want to get $20 out of the ATM. Do you carry your gun and a face covering, a mask to do that? No. And if you do, you're robbing the bank. Bam, there. So when you

go to a place with ill intent, that is under our law, premeditation. Premeditation can be formed just like that, in the twinkling of a moment, the blink of an eye, the time it takes you to raise a gun and pull the trigger. And when you travel to a location, let's just say with a Molotov cocktail or a gun or a face mask, and then you commit a crime with it, it shows you planned it. And that sets you up for malice murder.

So in this case, Ray Caputo, WDBO, they see the mom come in. And then what happens? They come in guns drawn. And they hold the mom. And she has two young kids in this home, Nancy, one of them, again, five years old. They hold all of this entire family hostage. One five and one three, I think. One five-year-old and one three-year-old.

Go ahead. Oh, can you imagine? No, I can't. So mom's got her hands full. Mom's hysterical, you know, worried about these children. These people are pointing guns at her, and dad is sleeping in the other room. Guys, take a listen. Earlier you heard Tracy Kinnick, KBMT.

Take a listen to Jordan Williams at 12 News. One suspect is dead, two others on the run after Port Arthur police say they tried to rob a family in their home. Investigators say three men broke into the home on 18th Street around 830 Sunday night. Once inside, they held a family at gunpoint while demanding their belongings. The homeowner was in another room and he heard everything. The man grabbed his gun and fired several shots, hitting and killing 27-year-old Terrence Ellis. The two other suspects ran from the scene. Port Arthur police tonight are still looking for those two men. So dad pulls a gun and unloads to Dr. Kendall Crowns, Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That's Austin.

Dr. Crowns, as you heard Ray Caputo say, the three perps came in the home, guns drawn, following mom into the home. There's a three-year-old and a five-year-old there. Very often when I've spoken to crime victims, they are very, they feel like adrenaline is pumping through their body at the time of the attack. So the man, the dad, grabs the gun and fires at them as they are holding the children at gunpoint. What is that chemical reaction in your body? You know, you've heard those stories about moms being able to lift a car off their child, stories of typically unimaginable behavior, but they do it in that moment. What is that? So what it is, is when you get into a frightful situation, it's called fight or flight, and your body dumps a chemical, which is called epinephrine, into your bloodstream. And then that

causes you to be able to react more quickly, have more strength. And so from that fight or flight response from the epinephrine, you can see people have these sudden massive strength or be able to jump further, et cetera, et cetera. So when the epinephrine dump happens, a lot of things can change suddenly. And you can see a lot of quick reaction. You know, Chris Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek, now at Chris Byers investigation and polygraph.com. Chief Byers, I've seen so many homicides happen in the heat of the moment. But in this case, this is not out of passion. This is out of defense of a third party. What do you make of this case as we know it now? From what I've heard everything on this case, he was completely justified in what he did,

did the exact same thing that I did or I would do. Again, I'm a card carrying NRA member, so I'm very much for having guns to take care of yourself. One of the things that I used to tell people all the time, especially in the community I was a chief at, when seconds count, we the police will be there in minutes. So you've got to do something to take care of yourself and protect yourself within those seconds until we can get there. And people have that false sense that the police are going to get there and take care of it. But these things unfold within seconds just like this. So everything, he did everything right as far as I'm concerned. And now the possibility of a murder charge looming on him.

Port Arthur Police ID the dead suspect is Terrence Ellis. The owner of the home fatally guns him down after he barges into the home with two other suspects, all with their faces covered. The three suspects barge in when a woman who lives there, the mom, comes home. The homeowner is said to be a 29-year-old dad who was armed with a rifle. The other two suspects flee the scene, leaving their buddy behind, bleeding out on the floor. But it's not over yet. Take a listen to our friends at KBMT 12. Now to our breaking news out of Port Arthur this morning. A house fired just before midnight at the same home where three people broke in and held the family at gunpoint on Sunday night. The homeowner there shot and killed one of the suspects involved.

An eyewitness tells 12 News a neighbor saw smoke and flames coming from that home and dialed 911. Nobody was at home when the fire started and the cause is still unknown. And we're learning this morning that hours before the fire broke out, Port Arthur police were called back to the 2500 block of 18th Street to investigate a different shooting. This time, nobody was injured. Does it never end for this family? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about intruders, mass intruders entering a residence in a sleepy area, Port Arthur, Texas.

Mom has just come in, a three-year-old and a five-year-old. The three-year-old had a gun held to his face. That may affect the way that child grows up the rest of his life. So after daddy guns down one of the perps, the other two perps leave. And in that same residence, there's a, what we think is a drive-by shooting after what was that, a retaliation. And then after the family leaves, they set the home on fire as what a get back i'm nancy grace this is crime stories i want to thank you again for being with us here at fox nation and sirius xm 111 i mean ray caputo wdbo what do they come back in retaliation to set the

home on fire nancy within like 30 hours, you got someone shot in this home. You got a drive-by shooting, and then the home gets lit on fire. I mean, this poor family, it went through a lot of events in just, you know, a little over 24 hours, a little over one day. So you're correct on that. And it seems, I guess, you can't look at it any other way. They were targeting this family. Yeah, I know. But you could say that about any crime victim that they were targeted. Take a listen to Jordan Williams, Kelsey Johnson, KBMT 12. A deadly home invasion, a drive-by shooting, and that fire, all at the same house in Port Arthur, all in roughly 30 hours.

Tonight, people who live near 18th and DeQueen are in disbelief, and police are trying to find out if the three things are related. 12 News reporter Kelsey Johnson joins us with new information that she uncovered. The motive in this case is unclear. Port Arthur police say that the homeowner is being cooperative, but right now, the answer to why this family was targeted lies with the two suspects who got away. You know, there you go. Another issue, Ken Belkin, a sticky legal issue is that the other two perps that got away could actually be charged with their buddy's murder.

Explain the theory of felony murder. That's the good old-fashioned felony murder rule. You know it. You're taking me back to first year of law school, Nancy. So look, if a murder is, if someone loses their life in the commission of a felony, the people who were committing that felony can be charged for murder, even if they were not directly responsible for the loss of life. So here, where Mr. Ellis was shot and killed by the father,

you know, he was engaged with two other people in a home invasion, which is a felony, and he was killed as a result of it. So his two co-felons can be charged for felony murder because of his death. You're darn right. An easy example I always gave to juries is that, let's just say Jackie and I decide to rob a bank. And, you know, I say, okay, nobody's going to get hurt, Jackie. This is strictly about the money. She agrees. As soon as she gets in there, she goes wild, starts shooting, kills a teller. You know what? I'm in for it too. I'm responsible for felony murder because I was part of a felony and a death occurred. Let's see another example. Let's say we're leaving the bank and I'm the getaway driver. I go up on a curb in my haste and hit a gas station. The tank blows up. The cashier on the inside of the gas station dies.

Felony murder. I'm in commission of a felony. And what otherwise may have been an accident is now a felony murder. Did I intend to kill the gas store owner? No. But it was part of a felony. And therefore, felony murder. And in most jurisdictions, felony murder carries the same penalty as malice or murder one.

So we're looking at murder charges all around. Least likely is on the dad. But believe it or not, it happens. Murder charges against the dad have been thrown around. Take a listen now to Kelsey Johnson, KBMT. If houses could talk, this home on the corner of 18th Street and DeQueen Boulevard in Port Arthur would have a story to tell. This wasn't a random act initially on the home invasion. We believe that the house was specifically targeted. On Sunday night, a home invasion

turned deadly. Three suspects forced their way into a home and only two made it out alive. One of these suspects was shot and killed by the homeowner himself, defending his family. That family included a woman and two young children. Hours later, a drive-by shooting at the same address. No one was in the house at the time. But this home story is not over yet. Last night, the house went up in flames. You know, revenge, revenge.

Chief Chris Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek, Georgia, at Chris Byers Investigations and Polygraph.com. Chief Byers, revenge is not a defense under the law. How often have you seen deaths occur because of revenge? Oh, absolutely. It happens all the time. Just that mental trigger goes and you're set on that revenge and just rage comes from it. Oh, it happens, gosh, hundreds of times during my 25 years. I've seen those different

types of crimes, maybe not to this extent where somebody was killed. But yes, revenge is the motive for a lot of things that go on in the criminal world. Yeah, I'm thinking about the one perp bleeding out before cops could get there and question him and the other two perps get away. To Dr. Kendall Crowns, Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County. That's Austin, Texas. Dr. Crowns, how much blood is in our body, and how long does it take you to bleed out? You have about three liters of blood in your body,

so about three large bottles of pop or soda. Didn't you ever call it a super bottle? A what? A super bottle. That't you ever call it a super bottle? A what? A super bottle. That's what we called it growing up. I mean, you've got a regular Coke, and then you've got a super bottle, which is, I guess, a liter. No? Just me?

Jackie says she called it a super bottle, too. Okay. Go ahead. That must be a regional thing. Anyway, so you have about three liters in your system at any given time. And depending on what gets hit, if your aorta gets hit, you can bleed out in seconds. If it's a smaller vessel, you can take several minutes to bleed out. So it just depends on what organ gets hit, what vessel gets hit. So if it's a smaller vessel, it still only takes minutes?

Well, if you get to the smaller vessels, it can take minutes being 30 minutes, 40 minutes, etc. And, you know, if it's just periphery in your capillary, if you just put pressure on it, you won't die at all. Another issue, how much blood do you have to lose, Dr. Kendall Crowns, out of three super bottles? How much blood do you have to lose to actually die? So once you lose about a liter, you're going to go into shock, and then that's going to cause you to go into organ failure. So I think if you lose at least one super bottle, as you say, you're going to be in trouble.

So what really went down in this home? And who are the other two perps, the ones that get away? Take a listen to our friends at Channel 12. Early this morning, police pulled over a vehicle on Jimmy Johnson Boulevard. Officers searched it and found three loaded semi-automatic handguns and an AR-style rifle. They also recovered ski masks. The suspects face a long list of charges. Now, what's unclear is whether the suspects could be connected to those three crimes earlier this week at a house

on 18th Street and DeQueen. Remember the deadly home invasion, the shooting, the fire, all in roughly a day and a half. Detective Mike Hebert telling 12 News tonight that the Port Arthur Police Department's Criminal Investigation Division's detectives are looking into any possible connection between the traffic stop and what happened on 18th Street. You know, it's always amazing to me how a simple traffic stop can catch a killer. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys were talking about a family minding their own business. Mom is followed in.

She's got a three-year-old and five-year-old child with her. Masked intruders wearing ski masks come in, guns loaded. Dad grabs a rifle and lets it rip, killing one of the perps. The other two take off and go on the run. They stay gone nearly a week before, because of a traffic stop, they're pulled over. I mean, wow, that's quite a coincidence, Ken Belkin. They get pulled over, and the idiots still have three ski masks, have ski masks in the car, and weapons? Well, look, you know, as a mentor of mine once told me,

the fifth pillar of the criminal justice system. Yes. You know, they're not always the brightest. They're not always thinking or planning ahead, or they wouldn't be in situations. You cut out on me, but what I think you said, Belkin, is that most criminals are idiots. Yes, more or less.

That's what I'm saying. You know what? I think you're probably right, but there's such a huge majority of criminals that get away. We think we're getting 50%, 60%. No way. We're not even, we're scratching the surface of criminals that are apprehended. But for the most part, I agree with you, Ken Belkin.

Not that smart. It's not like in an Hercule Poirot movie where they're so smart they get away with murder. They're still driving around with a ski mask and the guns in the car. It'll take one ballistics comparison to figure out that the bullets were fired from one of those guns. Here is what I think is the real travesty. The real travesty, in addition to what the victims went through, is that there is a possibility Dad is going to be facing murder charges. It's happened before. Take a listen to our friends over at Court TV.

Doucette, a karate instructor, had abducted 11-year-old Jody Ploschet several weeks earlier and taken him to California. When Jody was rescued and returned to his family, his father Gary was coping with reports that Doucette had sexually assaulted his son. We didn't know what to do. You just feel helpless. Ten days later, when the police flew Doucette back to face trial, Gary Ploche was waiting with a gun.

As the suspect came through the airport, I readied my camera and raised it up to get a close-up shot of him. As I got a close-up shot and as he got parallel to me, Gary Ploche shoots. That's right. Dad guns down the man he suspected of molesting his son. Listen. Ploche shoots and kills him. Gary, why? Why, Gary?

Gary, why? Gary, why? And to this day, it stands out in my mind, the shooter, Gary Ploche, says, if it had been your child you would have done the same thing too today Abram McGough is an assistant US attorney and views that tape through the eyes of a federal prosecutor I would have to say the video tape was the most ideal witness in this case you can actually see him take the gun out of his boot, pull it up to the shoulder lever of Jeff Doucette, and pull the trigger and shoot him.

Yet, Flochet, after pleading no contest to manslaughter, got off with only five years probation. Would you have done the same thing? A lot of parents say yes. He's not the only one. Take a listen to our friends at Fox 10. For Aaron Latowski, his sole responsibility is protecting his wife, three kids, and their nanny. Don't forget the family dog, Sadie, who Latowski says alerted him late last night to a break-in. And so I came inside and I saw that one of our side doors was

open and she was barking down the hall towards my kids' bedrooms. Right away, Lutowski says he grabbed his shotgun. Meanwhile, the rest of the family was asleep. We never would have known we would have continued to sleep and sleep through it. So I'm just so thankful. Lutowski went into his daughter's room where he says the suspect came out with a large piece of wood, his face masked and his body naked. A face mask and completely naked in your little girl's room? Take a listen to Justin Lum.

Lutowski went into his daughter's room where he says the suspect came out with a large piece of wood, his face masked, and his body naked. He basically was lunging at me, so it was very quick. He had his hands in the air. I could see something dark or black coming at me, and again, it was very, very close, so I fired almost immediately. Two shots killed the suspect, police believe to be an 18- to 19-year-old man. The Lutowski's say this was the first break-in at their home,

but they have always been prepared. God bless America and the Second Amendment. I'm glad I was able to protect my family. God bless the police for coming so quick to take care of us. It's amazing to me that anyone could even consider putting these cases to a grand jury, but it happens. Listen to our friends at ABC News. A frantic father called 911 after finding a farmhand, Jesus Flores, allegedly sexually assaulting his little girl. The Lavaca County District Attorney's Office released the dramatic call. Well, that's 911.

Take some mercy. I hear an ambulance. Okay. I hear an ambulance. This guy was breaking my daughter, and I beat him up. And I don't know. I don't know what to do. The 911 audio is just part of the evidence presented to a Lavaca County grand jury who chose not to indict the father.

District Attorney Heather McMinn tells us why. And under the law in the state of Texas, deadly force is authorized and justified in order to stop an aggravated sexual assault or a sexual assault. All the evidence that was presented by the sheriff's department and by the Texas Rangers indicated that that was in fact what was occurring when the victim's father arrived at the scene. Did you hear that? This father finds a man raping his five-year-old little girl, beats him to death, and then the father's case is sent to a grand jury. Luckily, the grand jury had enough sense not to indict, but listen to this.

For neighbor Michael Vate, the decision not to indict wasn't surprising. He grew up with a young man. Went to school with my kids. Great guy. I mean, calls me Mr. Vice. Yes or no, sir. A well-mannered kid. Prosecutors say you can hear the young father trying to save Flores in the 911 audio. I don't know what it is. I don't know the answer. I don't know nothing, ma'am. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what this guy is going to be a freaking dime on me, ma'am. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. You need to find me a road number.

Vait hopes his neighbor's family can now recover. My man actually lost his life. It's sad, but I think justice will serve that day. That grand jury did not indict, but that is not true for every dad that takes action. Take a listen to NBC 15 Mobile. A defense lawyer says authorities are overreacting with a murder charge against a Coleman County man charged in killing his daughter's sexual abuser. 41-year-old Jay Maynor is charged with the shooting death

of 59-year-old Raymond Earl Brooks. The family says that Brooks was sexually abusing Maynor's daughter, who is now speaking out about the incident. I was so so young I don't remember when it started but when I finally told someone I was eight for the first time in my life I do not feel scared. For the first time in my life I do not wake up feeling fear. Coleman County investigators couldn't confirm whether the 2002 sex abuse case had any connection to the shooting, but Brooks was a registered sex offender. The Coleman County Sheriff's Office reports Jay Maynor will be charged with first-degree murder,

attempted murder, and shooting into an occupied dwelling. We can only hope that the father in this case that we are covering today out of Port Arthur, Texas, is not charged. The phrase vigilante dad is being thrown around recklessly. But this father should be applauded for protecting his family. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.