Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Daddy hurt mommy,' No one Listens to Little Boy, then Mommy's Skull Found Buried Beside Back Yard Pool

Episode Date: May 8, 2019

Bonnie Haim left her home and her 3-year-old son in 1993, never to be seen again. No arrests were made in her disappearance until a gruesome discovery was made 20 years later, right in her back yard.Nancy's expert panel weighs in:Dr. Kris Sperry: Retired Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Georgia  Frank Powers: Assignment Manager at News 4 JacksonvilleDr. Jolie Silva: Clinical and forensic psychologistWendy Patrick: Trial Attorney & author of “Red Flags”Joseph Scott Morgan: Forensics expert, and author of “Blood Beneath My Feet” Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Christmas morning in Jacksonville, Florida. A young wife and mother, Bonnie Hame, opens presents with her son. Bonnie's husband, Michael, captures the moment forever on video. Less than two weeks later, Bonnie disappears. What happened to Bonnie Hame, a gorgeous young mom who disappears from her Florida home one January day at the age of 23. She has never been seen.

Now, interesting, her son was always plagued with nightmares that mommy was murdered. But after an investigation, that turned out not to be true. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Bonnie Hame seemingly disappears into thin air. Where is she? I've got an all-star panel with me today. First of all, newcomer to Crime Stories, Dr. Chris Sperry, former chief medical examiner for the entire state of Georgia. He explained a

lot to me when I was a prosecutor and also led me through many, many homicide trials. Frank Powers, assignment manager, News 4 Jacksonville. Dr. Jolie Silva, New York clinical forensics psychologist, worked for New York Family Court. That's a toughie. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. You can find it on Amazon. And Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert,

professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. To Frank Powers joining us from News 4 Jacksonville. You know, when you drive through Jacksonville, Frank Powers, it's beautiful. It's there on the water. It's turning into a real tourist maker because of the perfect weather. Tell me about when she went missing. First of all, set the scene for me. Tell me about their neighborhood. It's a fairly typical middle-class neighborhood

on the north side of the river, about maybe 15 minutes from the airport. And you see a lot of neat houses along the neighborhood. People take care of their lawns. They go to church and celebrate birthdays. You know, I grew up in a very rural area. And when you say middle class, that spans well, well over half of our country. And I'm just thinking about that. Dr. Chris Sperry joining me today. Very often, people are fooled into thinking that people don't disappear from their neighborhood. That's just not true, because you and I have been through so many, many homicides. I can't even count them, Chris. You can be rich, you can be poor, you can have your PhD, you can drop out at sixth grade. It doesn't matter. People go missing from every

walk of life. Sometimes they're found and sometimes they're not, Chris. That's right. People go missing all the time and you never really think about it until someone is missing and then suddenly it's right at the forefront of your thoughts. You know, how many times, Dr. Sperry, have you and I been in court together and you look out and you see this seemingly perfect family, you know, you got the whole clan there and they're all well-dressed, they are articulate, they've all got degrees, they're from a fancy area of town. It doesn't matter. It does not matter. It doesn't matter a bit. I mean, dozens, over and over and over again.

The family that you least think is going to be responsible for someone's disappearance or have a family member disappear, they're the ones that are sitting there. To Wendy Patrick joining me, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. You know, I'm looking at her picture and I'm looking at family photos and it's hard for me to believe that this mom of this beautiful little boy just goes missing without the boy. That's the problem for me. Yeah, Nancy, it's, you know, you hit the nail on the head when you talked about it's hard for most people, i.e. most jurors, to believe that somebody that looks like they come from a picture-perfect life could just go missing, especially when you talk about splitting up a family. But I got to

tell you, and we know this firsthand nowadays with the advent of social media and Facebook, that you only see the image that somebody wants you to see. And behind every white picket fence looking yard, perfect family, you just never know what secrets lie beneath. That appears to be what at least was going through some people's heads when it happened in this case. To Dr. Jolie Silva, joining me, clinical forensic psychologist, Dr. Silva, I was just thinking about this past Sunday, dragging everybody, getting everybody up, getting everybody dressed, getting me there early this past Sunday. And I had them all dressed up beautifully. But me, you know, I just had on my same t shirt and army jacket and cowboy boots. And I've got everybody stepped into a seat and

settled. And I looked around and it felt that we had just poured ourselves in. And I wonder, you know, I guess a lot of families do try to give a certain image. Oh, yes. I mean, you know, anyone who even has children knows that getting out the door is a completely different situation than when you're actually out the door. You know, and I completely agree with the advent of social media. We are even more inclined and more motivated to have this picture perfect family life, which goes on inside the house is a completely different story. I mean, the level of dysfunction that can occur across socioeconomic classes,

I mean, is enormous. You know, domestic violence, you know, you don't have to be in a low SES to have these kinds of violent acts going on in a home. You know, and it strikes me very, very odd to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, that she just vanishes without a trace, especially the little boy, Aaron, was just three years old when mommy goes missing. How could she go missing without a trace, Joe Scott? Yeah, I don't buy these cases where people just suddenly vanish into thin air, there's always a rationale for

this happening, particularly if you're talking about a young mother who has a child that's, you know, let's face it, totally and completely dependent upon her. And so that would leave me as an investigator to think that there's something more to this than what people are saying. Well, we know that she goes missing. I wish you could see her like I'm seeing her right now. Beautiful. This woman has really dark hair, kind of over on the side, big smile. And it looks like they're in some kind of an organized family photo. She's holding the baby. To Frank Powers from News 4 Jacksonville, did they only have the one child? Yes, just Aaron. And am I correct that he was three at the time she goes missing? He was three years old and she was the one that made all the arrangements for daycare, which is another thing

that was curious. When a mother is going to disappear, whether she's going to go off by herself, you'd think she would be making considerations to have her child taken care of. She was the one that made all the plans for daycare. Okay, just out of curiosity, Frank, do you have children? I have two grown children for daycare. Okay, just out of curiosity, Frank, do you have children? I have two grown children and two grandchildren. Okay, then you know what I'm talking about. Did you make all the plans for their preschool and school and babysitters? We sure did.

No, you specifically. No, my wife took care of most of that. Yeah, because I can tell you, I have to sometimes tell David how he's supposed to pick the children up for pickup in the afternoon. You go in this way, then you wait right here, and then don't move, and make sure you have the sticker in the front or something's going to go wrong, blah, blah. And when you, I mean, really, Dr. Julie Silva, of course the mom did it. No offense, gentlemen. Of course the mom did all the daycare planning, please. A hundred percent. That is my clinical opinion the mother did all of it but you know back to what frank is saying she's the one i guess you're saying also she's the one that would pick the baby up and drop him off and all that and then she just disappears with no

plans is that what you're saying that's what the situation that the police department were looking into why did she take off and leaving her son with an uncertain future? That was a big red flag. So Frank Powers, are you telling me she left during the day one day and the baby, Aaron, was at daycare or preschool and then nobody was there? Is that how she went missing? It happened at night. Okay, tell me about that. According to the husband, she left after the fight. She said she was leaving him and he never called police. The police called him only after her purse was found in a dumpster near the airport. I thought that was a bad sign.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. There's no doubt in my mind if she was able to pick up a phone, she would have contacted someone. Bonnie Hames' family just can't put the pieces together. They don't know why she's not here at home with them. Bonnie's husband, Michael Hames, says they had an argument before she left the house Wednesday night. He says he thought Bonnie went to blow off some steam, but something happened. A maintenance man at this red roof inn near the Jacksonville airport found a purse inside one of these dumpsters here. Inside the purse, Bonnie Hames' wallet with her credit cards and her cash still intact that's when police got suspicious nothing else indicates why she should be missing other than this circumstance surrounding maybe some type of domestic

problem with the husband and she leaves investigators talked to guests at the motel looking for any clues and they did question Bonnie Hames husband but they are not calling him a suspect it's actually she just wasn't happy and she wanted to leave and couldn't stop her from leaving but what happened after she did leave the house the Hames say Bonnie knew about a pressing business appointment the next morning that's just one of the reasons they say she couldn't have just left town and there's her little boy. She wouldn't leave him. Three-year-old Aaron Heim doesn't know where his mommy is. Bonnie Heim's family is just hoping that word will come before they have to

explain any bad news to the toddler. Aaron loves you. He's asking for you. And if anyone has seen her or can shed any light on this story, just please, please let us know something. You are hearing from our friends at Channel 4 Eyewitness News. That was Mary Baer reporting on Bonnie Haim going missing. I know that a lot of people go just blow off steam and they leave the house, but it's always difficult for

me to imagine, to you, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author of Red Flags, it's always hard for me to imagine just leaving the house with the children here. It would be hard for me to just, quote, unquote, blow off steam while they're here. No, that's absolutely correct. And it doesn't make any sense to most mothers. And, you know, you bring up a great example. Parents cannot relate to this. If you need to blow off steam, you don't do it in a circumstance that would leave your children home alone for an extended period of time, regardless of the differences or the arguments you're having with your spouse. So here we have her having both personally and professionally no reason to do what allegedly she do. And remember,

she had a business meeting the next morning. She had the three-year-old at home. It just doesn't make sense. And common sense, Nancy, as you know, during your years as a prosecutor, is something the jurors don't leave at the door. It's highly suspicious. We're trying to make sense of the disappearance of a gorgeous young mom, Bonnie Hain. But then everything changes to me, Dr. Chris Berry, when her pocketbook is found in a dumpster. It's one thing, and I know people do it every day, to just leave. You just get fed up. Maybe it's an abusive relationship. Maybe you're just worn out with the whole thing. It's not what you signed up for, and you just leave. Got it. But the pocketbook in the dumpster, Chris,

that's a problem. Oh, suddenly it's immediately suspicious. You know, you may not know at that point what the degree of suspicion is or what the focus is, but finding a pocketbook inside a dumpster is immediate cause for concern, period. Dr. Sperry, in cases that you and I've tried together and the many, many other thousands you handled, there's that one tipping point, there's that one fact that changes everything. And for me, it was finding her pocketbook, her pocketbook thrown in a dumpster. Is it always like that in a case where there's that one fact that changes everything? It can be. It's not always, and it would be nice if that were the case, but those instances where there is something, as you said, a tipping point, those completely change

the complexion of the case and usually is the focus that starts an actual real investigation. Unfortunately, many cases are not like that, though. They can go on for days or even weeks just with nothing. You're looking for the one thing that may open the door or at least show that something serious has happened, something of great concern has happened. And if you find that, then it's very fortunate. But if you don't find that, cases can just drag on and on and on, as you well know. Yeah, they can drag on forever. To Frank Power's assignment manager, News 4 Jacksonville. Frank, tell me about where her purse was found. It was in a dumpster behind a motel

near the airport. And also, what probably to the police when they found that purse, was $1,200 in it. So they knew right off the bat, whatever happened to Bonnie Haim, it wasn't a robbery. Wow. Okay. Joseph Scott Morgan, weigh in. What does this tell you? Well, you know, the pocketbook in and of itself with a lady that is managing her life, the life of her children, the life of her family, and it's just kind of tossed aside and she's attempting to disappear or fade away, if that's the impression that's being given. This is not something that would fall in line with a logical progression here. It's an odd bit of of information coming in

there's been a number of cases over the years where you'll have folks that will be involved in a nefarious event and their car will wind up parked at a at an airport in order to give the appearance that they're just blasting off but why would you why would you leave your car at the airport and then not take anything with you to subsist off of? It's very strange. Now, we know, though, Bonnie was leaving her husband and that she had prepared to leave her husband. She had even opened a bank account in her own name. She had kept her plan secret.

She had the bank statements mailed to her at work. We also know that she had planned to put the baby in a different preschool. She was making all these plans to leave her husband, and then she disappears. So seemingly, that's part of her plan that was uncovered after her disappearance, except the pocketbook with the money in it. Listen to this. On the evening she disappeared, Bonnie came home from work at about 7.30 p.m. She intended to drop by Evanne's later to finalize plans for a friend's baby shower. About 8.30 that evening, she called me on the phone.

Hi. Um, listen, about tonight, I'm not going to be able to make it. I'm really sorry. She was crying, and she was upset. Bonnie, is something the matter? And I asked her if she wanted me to call her back later. And she said no, that she would just

talk to me in the morning. Well, actually, not too good. I think I'm coming down with something. DENNIS FARINA. But the next morning, neither Bonnie nor Michael showed up at work. Well, she got mad at me last night and took off. I don't know where she's at.

DENNIS FARINA. Hopes for Bonnie's safe return began to fade that same morning. Her purse turned up only five miles from home, buried in a motel dumpster near the Jacksonville airport. Robbery apparently was not a motive due to the amount of money and the credit cards being there. The purse was secured by the maintenance worker, and a police officer was called to the scene along with family members. You are hearing our friends at Unsolved Mysteries. You know, how many cases have been cracked, Wendy Patrick, by a maintenance worker?

A maintenance worker finds a pocketbook, finds a driver's license, finds a body. I mean, they are a source of a lot of information when cases are cracked. Have you ever noticed that, Wendy? I've actually never considered it until right now. You know, I have. They're often our best witnesses, and they're often viewed as very credible because they don't have the kind of motive to lie or to make anything up. They're often just good Samaritans who are horrified in some of these discoveries they've made, like in this case, and just want to do the right thing as quickly as possible by alerting the authorities.

So, yes, thank God they're employed in the ways that they are so they can give us the kind of circumstantial evidence we need. Tell me to Frank Powers from News 4 Jacksonville about the search for Bonnie Haim. What was done to find her? Well, police searched all over the area. They even brought in psychics. They searched the neighborhood. They asked for tips via Crimestoppers. Didn't get a whole lot of tips. And then they found her car,

and that was at the airport. And it was the way they found the car that again, pointed to foul play. Speaking of psychics, take a listen to our friend Scott Johnson, WJXT News for Jacksonville. The woman who rented the house claims that there were ghosts in the house, things like candles that would light themselves, mattresses that would all of a sudden turn bloody, then all of a sudden not be bloody, that investigators with police at the time brought in psychics to try and help crack this case. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Bunny Hain was born May 20th, 1969. And at 18 years old, she married her high school sweetheart. Her fairy tale would continue two years later with the birth of young Erin Hain,

the apple of her eye, the love of her life. And even though Bonnie was a young woman, Erin was everything to her. And she was a great father. But as things happened, Bonnie and this defendant began to drift apart. And it wasn't much longer, about three years later, in December of 1992, that Bonnie Haim had made the decision to leave the defendant. I want to go first to Dr. Jolie Silva, a New York clinical forensic psychologist. What is that, You drift apart. Why do couples always say that's the reason for their divorce?

They drifted apart. Yeah. When you're working and you're raising children and you're trying to cook dinner. I mean, I hardly notice when David walks by. I'm sure he doesn't want to hear that, but that's the reality because you're trying to get through the day. You're trying to get everything done for the children and for work. Of course you drift apart, but it's your duty to try to make it work. You know, I mean, the human brain is only capable of doing so much in a given day. And when you have to worry about things like, what are the kids going to wear to school? I have to sign this note. I have to pick up this. I have to do that. Your brain only has so much capacity to focus on romance and love and let's connect. Wait a minute. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry, man, for you to actually hear this,

me laughing when you said romance. And I really hope that my husband or really any of his family is not listening right now. Robats? Are you kidding me? I mean, I think last night I slept four hours and I counted myself very lucky. Okay, now hold on. I've got another fact. I've got another clue here that probably Frank Powers already knows. What can you tell me about her vehicle, her car? Well, the car was found up at the Jacksonville International Airport,

and she's a tiny woman. But the position they found the driver's seat in, it was pushed back. Not a position you'd find, like, I'm 6'3", I have it pushed back all the way. A gal who's, like, barely over 5 feet tall, she's going to have that up very close to the steering wheel, and that's not the way they found the front driver's seat. You know, you're making things flash through my mind, Frank Powers. Every time David tries to get into my beat up minivan, he's 6'4". I'm 5'1". He looks at me like I've done something wrong

because he has to put the seat back. I'm like, you know what? Go drive your own car if you don't like it. So what I don't get is even now, I mean, Joseph Scott Morgan, that was a big clue for me as Chris Berry and I were talking about a tipping point in a case when Tara Grinstead's car seat was pushed back. And she was one of those neat freaks. Joe Scott Morgan, Tara Grinstead's car would still smell new. It had that new smell. Everything was pristine.

But when they found her car parked back in her garage the night of her disappearance, it was covered in mud and the seat was pushed back just like Frank Powers is describing. That's a big clue. Yeah, it is. It goes to the specific nature of the way the individual that's connected to that vehicle lives their life. And that's part of the bigger narrative when you're investigating a case like this. And that's a huge question. Now, if you're talking about a seat that's pushed all the way back, the presumption here is that the individual that was in it was probably a male that was driving the vehicle because the seat is so far back in its position compared to her. Who would have been in this car other than her? Who would have access to it? And that's one of the things as investigators

that we're going to want to look at. You know, the reality is that that tells me she was not the last person to drive her car. Now it could be argued she had a boyfriend and they flew off together. The car was at the airport. Didn't we see that in one of Drew Peterson's wives, the car or something was at the airport? I mean, that's an old straight out of the criminal how-to book. But her car's at the airport, the seat's pushed back, her pocketbook with $1,200 cash in it is found in a dumpster. I can pretty well say she didn't just leave with another guy. Then the nightmares start with baby Aaron. Baby Aaron's mommy is gone at age three. And what really concerns me is the nature of these nightmares. He tries to explain them to people, Dr. Silva. He dreams that mommy was in timeout.

He dreams mommy is asleep and can't be woken up. He says daddy put her in timeout. He says all sorts of things like mommy's underwater, all sorts of scary things. And I know I keep diverting us, but we all know the case of Susan Powell. She disappeared in the middle of the night and her husband, Josh Powell says he took the family camping. It was zero degrees that night at midnight when he went camping with his two little boys. She's never seen again. One of them draws a picture, and it's Mommy in a car trunk. Now, does that prove a case? No, it doesn't, Dr. Jolie Silva.

The problem with Aaron's dreams and his stories is they're all over the place. Mommy's underwater. Mommy's in timeout. Mommy's asleep in the bed and won't wake up. I mean, his stories vary too much for authorities to really take any one of them seriously, Dr. Silva. You know, the fact that he had repeated nightmares like that is a clear indicator that there was violence, domestic violence, that he witnessed some pretty bad things happening in the home. You know, there were reports that he also said, Daddy hurt Mommy, Daddy shot Mommy, Daddy put Mommy in timeout, all of these things.

But to pinpoint that to a specific memory of Daddy killing Mommy would be a very hard thing to prove. But he clearly had, you know, a traumatic experience and a traumatic history. At age three, those things are real. A three-year-old has real experiences and clearly there was violence going on in the home. Well, this is how I had to do it, Wendy Patrick, fellow prosecutor. When you have a child witness and everyone looks at you as if you had the plague when you put a child on the stand, but there's one shot for the prosecution to win a case. One shot to put the bad guy behind bars. And if you have to put a child up to do it,

then you hold your nose and you put the child up there and you're the strong one. You have to do it. And there's just really no choice. But they don't talk like we talk. For instance, I would say in felony indictments, you have to show the jurisdiction, of course, what happened as best as you can, name the crime, like murder. You may not know how the crime was committed. You may not know exactly when it was committed, which is a requirement for an indictment. That gives the defendant notice of when they had to defend themselves on that particular date, so they can work up an alibi, for instance. But children don't always know dates. So I would say things like, was the Christmas tree up? Had the Easter bunny come? Were you wearing short pants or in a tank top? Or were you wearing a sweater and long pants? To try to get some idea,

some framework to make out the indictment. They don't talk like we do. You have to unlock what they're saying. And sometimes it takes a really long time, Wendy. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Nancy. And that's also one of the reasons sometimes when I've walked to your jury, I'd like to know whether there's anyone there that has no experience with children, because you have to have that experience to understand the way they communicate. And as you mentioned, there are ways in which you can circumstantially prove when an event occurred. Birthdays, gosh, especially if it's theirs, they usually remember what kind of a cake they had.

So, too, that establishes the kind of credibility you need to lend some credence to some of these other things that children remember. Very important points. You know, back to Frank Powers, assignment manager, News 4 Jacksonville. Frank, so we've got Aaron left without a mommy. What becomes of him and dad, Michael? Well, Michael goes on with his life. And some thought that that was a little too quick when he met another woman and married her.

Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. When did he meet another woman? How soon after Bonnie going missing? It was about a year. About a year that he found another woman and they started a courtship. Why is that? I need to shrink on this one. Dr. Silva, why is it that women grieve and grieve and grieve and vow they'll never love again?

And then the man runs off with another woman within 12 months. He's happily resettled somewhere. How does that work? You know, I don't know if that would necessarily be the case for all, you know, people who split up. But in this case, there was there was clearly a lot of dysfunction going on with this man. You know, I don't know if he had some kind of antisocial personality where he didn't really care very much about his wife and didn't really care very much about other women in general. So he probably, you know, had no remorse and just had no feelings for the fact that his wife was gone. Long story short, Frank, isn't it true? He leaves. You just told me a new fact about

remarrying and relocating to North Carolina. But what about Aaron, the baby? Aaron was eventually adopted by the Frazier family. Okay, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The mom goes missing and he adopts the baby out. He allowed the baby to be adopted outright, and it wasn't the Bonnie Hames side of the family that adopted him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Michael worked as a manager in the construction supply company owned by his aunt, Yvonne, and her husband. Bonnie did their accounts.

Yvonne claims that Michael was often abusive to Bonnie at the office. Yvonne also says that at least once, Michael's abuse became physical. One day, they got into an SAYS THAT AT LEAST ONCE, MICHAEL'S ABUSE BECAME PHYSICAL. One day, they got into an argument in a fight in the parking lot. And she came in crying, and he had slammed her hand in the door, and her nails were broke. And she was very upset at that point. DENNIS FARINA, EVAN DECIDED TO LEAVE HER HUSBAND.

In preparation, she opened a bank account in her own name. To keep her plans secret, Bonnie had the bank statements mailed to her at work. Evanne says Michael somehow found out and was furious. You are hearing from our friends at Unsolved Mysteries regarding the disappearance of Bonnie Haim throughout his life. Aaron, the three-year-old when mommy goes missing, is tortured by dreams, by what he thinks recollections about what happened to his mom. He told everyone he knew, and seemingly no one would listen to Aaron Haim. Until finally, he wins the deed to his childhood home in North Jacksonville. He goes back to the home.

Listen to our friend Scott Johnson, WJXT News 4, Jacksonville. He took possession of the home around 2003 and leased it to renters. Then he was planning to sell the home in 2014 and was removing the pool and an external shower. Here in the dirt underneath the shower, he finds a bag. I accidentally busted up the bag, and I saw what I describe as something that looked like coconut. It was a fibrous material, just like a brown coconut.

The coconut was in fact the skull of his biological mother. I picked up the coconut object and it ended up being the top portion of her skull. I looked at it. I had it in my hand. I didn't really see anything. I handed it to Thad. And he looked back in the hole and we could see teeth. And at that point in time, you could see the top portion of her eye sockets. You are hearing Aaron Haim, now Aaron Frazier, describing his quest ending in his own backyard. Throughout his life, he is tortured about what happened to his mom.

Where is mommy? He wins back the deed to his childhood home in Jacksonville and makes this horrible, horrible discovery. To Dr. Chris Berry, former chief medical examiner with the state of Georgia, once you've seen a human skull, you know it when you see it. You know it's not an animal skull. You know what it is. There's just some things you don't confuse. That's one of them. What would that have looked like? It really looks round. The whole top of the skull and most of the head is just round and round and smooth.

He described it as thinking it was a coconut, which actually makes rather sense because the mind looking at a skull, especially the top of the skull like this, on one hand, the brain maybe knows what it is or suspects, but the other part of your brain doesn't want to really admit that this is a human skull. Now, the lower parts, he describes seeing the orbits. Once you get down to the lower part of the skull, then it doesn't look like anything else. There's the eye sockets and the cheekbones, and everything else begins to fall into place. But it's very easy to see how initially he thought that this was something else. To Dr. Sperry, how long does it take for a body buried under soil to become skeletonized? An unembalmed body like this, buried like this, within easily somewhere about six to eight months, there would be complete skeletalization.

That is, all the soft tissue would be gone. It takes about a year for the greasiness on the bones to disappear. So that's a general way to tell how long a body has been buried is by looking at the bones. And if they're still greasy or waxy feeling, coating on the bones, it's been less than a year. Okay, now you just told me something new. After all these years, Dr. Sperry, why are bones, human bones, as you say, greasy? I've never heard that before. Oh, well, it's because our bodies, all of our bodies, of course, have a lot of muscle, but we also have fat.

And the fat degenerates actually relatively slowly. And as the soft tissues, the muscle, the other organs decompose and dissolve, the fat remains behind as just kind of a greasy, slimy residue. The bones, of course, will last for years, but this slimy residue will stay on the bones until eventually it is decomposed and the bones then become clean, if you will. They may be brown, discolored from being down in the ground.

The greasy residue from the decomposing fat, that stays apparent. Like I said, it's easily visible and you can feel it when you're feeling the bones and gloved hands for, you know, for about a year. Okay, I just had to pause and let and digest everything you just told me. I'll give you something else to digest. What came out was that police searched that yard a couple of times, including the ground penetrating radar, didn't find anything. And it's believed that the body was somewhere else. And then they get a mysterious letter in 1996 that Bonnie Hames remains were in the backyard. They never followed that up. Oh, my stars. Okay. Frank Powers, assignment manager, News 4 Jacksonville.

Tell me that again. When the remains were found in 2014, police had said, we searched that backyard a couple of times, including with ground-penetrating radar. They didn't find anything. What came out was that apparently the body was somewhere else. In 1996, don't know from who, an anonymous letter came to the police department to say, search the backyard now because her remains are there. They never did. So in excavating and getting into the pool, they come across a plastic sheeting that looks like maybe a bag.

He, the son, now grown, breaks it open with a shovel, reaches inside, and finds his own mother's skull. He says he could actually see the top of the eye socket. So the case goes to trial, because who else could it have been other than Michael Haim, right? Sounds simple. Take a listen to this. You would agree, Mr. Hain, that you had motive to murder Bonnie Hain, correct? I don't think so. You would agree that you would have had the opportunity to murder Bonnie Hain, correct?

I wouldn't do anything like that. That's not my question. My question is, you have the opportunity to kill her if you wanted to, correct? Yes. And you would agree that you would you have the opportunity to kill her if you wanted to, correct? Yes. And you would agree that you would have the ability, physically? I disagree on that. Really?

Yeah. Okay. Those guns were yours, right? No, we just got anything that was worth with anything. Okay. But you were much stronger and bigger than Bonnie, correct? You were saying shooting or not. I said two things. One, you had the ability based on shooting, and two, you had the physical ability to hurt her severely during her life.

I understand that you're saying you never would. You had the physical ability to do it. Possibly, I guess, what they're trying to decide. Michael Haim was convicted over 20 years later because his son, Aaron, never gave up on what happened to Mommy. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.