Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Dating App Threesome-Turns-Murder

Episode Date: November 12, 2021

It started as a hookup on a dating app, but turned into a twisted tale of kidnapping, rape, murder and 'suicide by cop.' Heidi Carter invites a woman and her boyfriend to a home she was sharing for an afternoon of sex and drug. When Carter's boyfriend, Carey Hammond shows up unannounced, he's angry. Hammond holds the couple at gunpoint, then beats the pair with a baseball and rapes the woman repeatedly. The beaten man is ultimately strangled. The bloody scene is uncovered when Carter calls a friend to help her clean and she finds the dead body.Joining Nancy Grace today: Matthew Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States" Dr. Jorey Krawczyn [KRAW-ZIN] - Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide”, bw-institute.com Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com, Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine. Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Valerie Lyons - Reporter, 44News (Evansville),Twitter: @VLyonsTV Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It's just like in the movies, except it's real. Have you ever seen a movie where the cleaning lady or friend goes into a home or an apartment or the office, minding their own business, and suddenly they find a dead body? That's what happens here. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

This is how it all starts. Take a listen to our friends at WEVV44. A woman was stopping by a house on Stinson Avenue on the city's west side to visit her friend last night. Police say when she went inside, it was like a true horror scene. With a man dead on the floor, another woman tied up. She then flagged down an Indiana State Trooper who called the Evansville Police Department to the scene. Wow. Okay, so you go over to your friend's place. The friend says, can you help me clean up? And they clean one room, then they go to the next room, and lo and behold, there's one dead body with another body gagged and tied up.

Dead or alive, don't know. She runs for it. And do you blame her? Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. And thanks for being with us. Also with us, an all-star panel to make sense of what we're hearing. Matthew Mangino, high-profile lawyer joining us.

Former prosecutor, Lawrence County. Author of The Executioner's Toll on Amazon. Dr. Jory Cross and psychologist. Faculty, St. Leo University. Consultant with the Blue Wall Institute, and author with me, Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the state of Florida at PathCare.med, senior lecturer at University of Florida Medical School, Forensic Medicine, and the founder of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum, joining us.

You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. But first, we're going out to Valerie Lyons, special guest joining us, reporter with 44 News there in Evansville. Let me start at the beginning, Valerie. Tell me about Evansville. A lot of people haven't heard of it. What's it like? Yeah, that's exactly right, Nancy. I mean, I'm originally from Florida and I had to look up Evansville on a map before I accepted the job and moved out. So you're exactly right. And when I moved out there and I started the job, everyone told me, you know, Evansville, it's not necessarily a sleepy town, but it's definitely not a town where you hear about, you know, high-profile crimes. But, you know, as time has gone on, we've definitely seen an uptick in certain crimes, but nothing like this.

As you mentioned, this is something you see in the movies. So this definitely took all of us off guard. Well, you know what's interesting about Evansville? It's right there on the Ohio River in Indiana, and it's got a very, very low population for its geography. There's only about 118,000 people there in the last census. Now, that's pretty unusual. In fact, its big thing is some earthen mounds, like Indian mounds. It's not like New York and you go to the Empire State Building and Rockefeller Center. It's more like my hometown, where the big thing was the old monkey Indian mounds.

I'm not knocking that. I'm glad I grew up there. But what you don't expect is for this to unfold on a tree-lined street. That's what you don't expect in Evansville, Indiana. I think we've all got the picture. I mean, to you, Cheryl McCollum, you're the forensic expert. The reality is when you are looking for a killer and you're in a big city, that's like looking for a needle in a haystack. It could be anybody. But when you're in a smaller town, population 118,000 for the whole kit and caboodle, then you start looking at who would be in this house?

Who would be walking by this house? Who would even see this house? What if it's on a rural mail route? I mean, way out in the sticks, as it's been called. So you don't get your typical foot traffic. It's not near an interstate. So who in the world would commit a crime like this? You're right. That's what you think about when you're in a rural area. No question.

You're going to look at that social circle first. Who are the people that come to this house regularly? Who might she have had an issue with or some type of problem? And then you're going to go outside that social circle as the investigation takes you there. But certainly in a small town, you're generally looking at that close group of acquaintances. It's like Andy of Mayberry.

You just don't walk in and find Aunt Bea tied up, hogtied, and dead. Okay, that just doesn't happen in a small town statistically. But guess what? It did this time. And, you know, Matthew Mangino, a high-profile lawyer joining us, now civil attorney, former prosecutor. It does sound like it's out of a movie where you've got a friend over, she's helping clean up and she comes upon, whoops, a dead body. Now, you know, you would expect to find, I don't know, somebody leaves their drinks out, their alcohol or their, I don't know, just their R-rated movies still playing.

You find something, but it's usually not a dead body, Matthew. No, and, you know, what's strange here is she's invited over to the house to help clean while there's a dead body laying in the house. You know, that's, you know, strange without a doubt. And so certainly in a small town, you know, people know each other. Neighbors are friendly with one another. You know, if I'm investigating this case, I'm going to begin to talk with the neighbors and try to find out the history of this residence and who lived there and, you know, what kind of people they were and what kind of traffic came in and

out of that house. I would immediately start with canvassing the neighborhood to try to find out as much information as I could about that house. Yeah, you're right. Now, this woman manages to get out of the house. She makes a run for it very, very wisely, and she happens to run into a trooper. Now, that is quite fortuitous, and let me tell you what happens then. Listen to this. Come on out to the front door now!

With your hands up! I can see you! You guys have enough. Come on out! then. Listen to this. So right there, you hear the police immediately converge on the scene. This woman who's cleaning the house runs out practically into the arms of a trooper going by, and they call for backup. And of course, cops come, they surround the place and start demanding everybody come out with your hands up. All they know right now is this woman in shock claims there's a dead body inside and another person, a woman, hogtied, tied up near the dead body. So all of the guns drawn, they demand anybody that can come out better get out with their hands up. So Cheryl McCollum, we hear them say we've got a Heidi Carter and a Carrie Hammond inside how do they know that I'm not sure how they know that unless they made some type of call to the home or got

information from the woman that was inside because the friend that was helping cleaning she knows Heidi so she probably gave them that information to say Heidi's in there with her boyfriend. Or how about this? You are familiar with the interior of a cruiser, correct, Cheryl? Yes. Okay. You know that little computer thingy right at the officer's right hand as he, she is driving,

where they look up license tags, look up dob's and people they can look up addresses too little known fact well my understanding well my understanding is that wasn't heidi's home i know it wasn't heidi's home they're the third man that i understand might have owned the home but i'm thinking they were going by the witness. That's what I think. So you hear them yelling. We've got a Heidi Carter and a Carrie Hammond inside. Now listen to what comes next. out is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What you're hearing is body cam footage. You're hearing exactly what's happening at the time. And what you hear at the end is gunfire.

Okay, that's never good. Take a listen to our cut seven. This is Marissa Patois, WVV 44. Several neighbors who had just gone to sleep were awoken by the gunshots. While this man did not hear the gunfire, his 13-year-old son did.

He heard some shots, but he didn't know where it was coming from. He went to sleep hoping it was just a loud train passing by on the tracks. I get up like three, and when I came outside, I thought my next-door neighbor was having a party, though, because I seen all the cars until I seen the yellow tape. So I was like, well, something must have happened, and I seen the police cars and all the detectives and stuff. Another terrifying twist to this case is that two children were inside the home at the time of the shooting. Children inside the home? The same home where the friend sees a dead body and another body hogtied? So the neighbors are now waking up to hear gunfire. That gunfire apparently coming from

the cops. Take a listen now to our cut one. This is Sergeant Anna Gray. Around 11 p.m., Evansville police officers were dispatched to the area of Stinson Avenue and James Avenue to assist Indiana State Police for a possible kidnapping and murder. The reporter was still on scene and told officers that she went to the residence to visit with Heidi Carter. While she was inside the residence, she saw a dead body and ran out of the home to get help. Officers located 36-year-old Heidi Carter outside of the home near a vehicle. She told officers that there were several people still inside the home.

Officers also located a gun on Carter. Officers surrounded the home and called out other residents with a loud verbal command, also using a loudspeaker. A male resident walked out of the home, complied with officers, and told officers that there were other individuals still inside, including his two teenage children. To Dr. Jory Croson, joining us, psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, research consultant with the Blue Wall and author of Operation SOS, recommendations to help stop officer suicide. Dr. Jory Corazan, thank you for being with us.

Did you notice on the sound that I played from the body cam footage, you hear the officer saying it over and over and over, come out with your hands up, come out with your hands up. The house is surrounded, come out with your hands up. Why do with your hands up. The house is surrounded, come out with your hands up. Why do they say it so many times, Dr. Jory? You want to keep that command simple and straightforward and repeat it so there's no confusion in the mind of the person hearing it. Don't give conflicting statements.

You've got to give that solid command to come out. And for their safety, I want to see your hands. The thing is, when you're at this point, there's a pretty good indication, Cheryl McCall, and the cops are going to go in guns a-blazing, and they're trying to give everybody in there the chance to get out alive. Absolutely. And again, that's what you see here. They've got lights, you know, toward the house.

They're giving these clear commands. They've got the place surrounded. I mean, there's nowhere for these folks to go but to come out the straight door and comply with what they're being asked to do. And now to top it all off, they find out that there are children in sight. There are children in sight. So the last thing they want to do is open fire. But yet they know that there is a dead body inside, according to this witness, and that, according to this witness, there's another body tied up. So let me ask you this. Valerie Lyons joining us, reporter

with 44 News in Evansville. Again, thank you for being with us, Valerie. Valerie, Heidi Carter comes out. What was her connection to the housekeeper, Cynthia? Well, yeah, that was her friend. She called over. She actually told her she was getting ready for a landlord inspection, and she needed help cleaning that house. And so the friend came over, and actually, according to the affidavit, she did notice blood on Heidi's shoes, but clearly didn't say anything until she cleaned a few of those rooms with her and unsuspectingly sat down on what she thought was a pile of pillows and blankets, which was actually that dead body. Okay, you know, Valerie Lyons, you've got me drinking out of fire hydrant here. That's just too much too fast. I don't really know where to start.

Okay, first of all, let me dissect everything you just said with me. Valerie Lyons with 44 News in Evansville. Valerie, so Heidi Carter invites Cynthia, her friend, over and she says, I've got a landlord inspection coming up. I got to get this place clean pronto. Can you help me? So Cynthia comes over, they clean one room, then she's cleaning another room, and she sits down on pillows and actually sits on a dead body. I didn't know that part. She sat on a dead body. Do I have that right? Yeah, that's right. And in the affidavit, it was actually blocked out by authorities. So even that stuck out to them as much as it definitely stuck out to us in the newsroom when we uncovered that information.

What do you mean blocked out? You mean circled or what? It wasn't. So instead of bolded or italicized, it was just blocked out in the long list of information. They seemed to highlight that and, you know, the part where she told authorities that she sat down on the dead body. Dr. Tim Gallagher joining me, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida at PathCareMed.com. All right, Dr. Gallagher, I've never asked you this. Have you ever sat on a dead body? I have seen a lot of dead bodies, but no, Nancy, I've never asked you this. Have you ever sat on a dead body? I have seen a lot of dead bodies, but no, Nancy, I've never sat on one.

No, have you ever sat on one? I've never sat on one. I've seen a lot of them, but I've never sat on one. And I don't want to sit on one. I've never also, in all the dead bodies I've ever seen, I've never sat on one. Is it anybody on the panel, Have you sat on a dead body? Nope. Nope. Even you, Cheryl? Of all people, I would think Cheryl McCullough might have sat on one.

Not even close. Illy? Kara? Jackie? Nobody? Okay. Can you imagine for the rest of your life, Dr. Jory Cross, and we need to shrink, you're going to remember the moment you sat on a dead person?

Yeah, this was a pretty gruesome dead body, according to the affidavit. Oh, yeah, it wasn't just dead. It was dead many times over is the only way I can put that. And I came up with that phraseology during the Jodi Arias case, Cheryl McCollum. She murdered her sweetheart, her lover, Travis Alexander, who was trying to break up with her, by stabbing him 29 times and then shooting him in the head.

So she killed him 30 times over. So this body, Cheryl, we've seen a lot of murders together, Cheryl, but that's where you get the phrase overkill. Jory Croson, Dr. Croson is right. This was a very gruesome murder that she sat on. From what I understand, Nancy, this victim was beaten, bound, and then ultimately strangled with a belt after being beat with a baseball bat. So how did the whole thing start? And we haven't even gotten to the person hogtied. I hope they're still alive.

All right, you got the cops surrounding the place. One woman comes out carrying. Okay, they find a gun on her. I don't know where. Don't want to think about it. Then she blurts out, there are children inside. Dear Lord in heaven. So what are the cops supposed to do? Wait for somebody else to get killed inside? And how did the whole thing start? Two words. Dating app. I bet you didn't see that coming. Take a listen to Bailey Smith, WEHT.

Heidi Carter met a woman on a dating app. Carter invited the woman and her boyfriend over, and police say they drank alcohol, used drugs, and engaged in sexual activity. Police stated that Carter's boyfriend, Kerry Hammond, then arrived and became angry. Police say Hammond beat, bound, and strangled the male victim and abused the woman. He had been restrained, duct taped, beaten, and strangled. They also tied and shackled the female victim while the male suspect raped her multiple times throughout the day. Police say Heidi Carter had a gun and was trying to appease Hammond. Investigators say a woman visited Carter to help clean her home. Police say the woman heard someone in the back room and went to investigate. While

she was inside the residence, she saw a dead body and ran out of the home to get help. Hammond tried to restrain the woman, but she was able to break free and flag down an Indiana state trooper who called for backup. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Investigators say a woman visited Carter to help clean her home. Police say the woman heard someone in the back room and went to investigate. While she was inside the residence, she saw a dead body and ran out of the home to get help. Hammond tried to restrain the woman, but she was able to break free and flag down an Indiana state trooper who called for backup. And that is what you call running for your life. You come over to a friend's house, you're cleaning up, you sit

on a horribly abused dead body. You see another victim tied up. That obviously is the victim who had been raped and raped and raped and beaten and beaten and beaten. And then when she tried to run for it, Cynthia, the friend, they tried to hold her back. You know she got away and took off like a bat out of hell. I guess she did. So we need you, Valerie Lyons, desperately to explain how a dating app ends up like this with police surrounding the house where we've got one dead body that we know of. What happened? Definitely, definitely crazy.

I mean, yeah. So Heidi Carter apparently met the female victim and her boyfriend, the male victim, through that app, invited them to that house during the day when Carrie Hammond, Heidi Carter's boyfriend, was out. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. Who meets who on a dating app? Heidi Carter, who I guess lived in the house, meets an unidentified woman. And the two of them get together on a date from a dating app. Do I have it right so far?

Yes. Okay. Then you've got the dead victim, Timothy Ivey. How did he get invited over? The rape victim invited her boyfriend and that's how they all. So that's how Timothy Ivey shows up. So the girl from the dating app girlfriend shows up for a date with Heidi Carter and she brings along with her her then boyfriend Timothy Ivey. So that's who's in the in the home the woman who lived there Heidi Carter and the dating app girlfriend and her boyfriend Timothy Ivey. Is that right? Yes. Were there children in the home? It was almost like a

duplex situation. I've come to the understanding there was another man living in there with his two teenage children. And they came out of the house when all of that went down, when authorities were on scene. So all of this is happening with teen children around? Yeah. Okay. So during the day, I understand that there was alcohol, drugs, sex, and then what happens? Carrie Hammond, Heidi Carter's boyfriend, came in.

He saw all of this happening and just grew enraged. And that's when he picked up a baseball bat and started beating them, the female victim and the male victim. Okay, guys, I want you to take a listen to our cut four. This is Bailey Smith, WEHT. Police swarmed the house and everyone complied except Hammond. Neighbors stood by watching. He came out, gun drawn, which looked like a gun to me. And when he came out, looked like he was going to start firing.

They shot him. Officers located an adult female victim who had been tied up, shackled, and had visible injuries. She was taken to a local hospital for treatment. Another individual was located inside the residence, but unfortunately was deceased and beyond help. The manner of death appeared suspicious and gruesome. To Valerie Lyons, we keep hearing about the gruesome nature of the murder of Timothy Scott. Let me understand this. Heidi Carter meets up with a woman on a dating app. They show up. They meet up in this home.

She brings with her her boyfriend, Timothy Ivey. During all the drugs, alcohol, and sex, Heidi Carter's boyfriend comes and then all hell breaks loose because Carrie Hammond is angry that he finds his girlfriend basically in a threesome. That's what's happening. Do I have that right? Yes, exactly. We keep hearing about the gruesome nature of the murder of the boyfriend, Timothy Scott Ivey. What happened to him? What was the nature of the murder?

He was beaten with that baseball bat. And then at one point, both victims were tied up. They were gagged and bound. And in the affidavit, it explains that Timothy Ivy tried to break free from those restraints, which only made Carrie Hammond get even angrier. So he ultimately started kicking him and beating him more and then took his own belt, wrapped it around his neck and strangled him to death. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida. Dr. Gallagher, in this situation, how do you determine if the victim was bludgeoned dead or strangled dead? Well, this is a complicated case because not only do we have the bludgeoning and the strangling,

we also have the drugs involved. So we want to make sure that the drugs did not play a factor, that the beating was that of a fatal nature, and that the strangulation occurred while he was alive. So the strangulation, we'll have to look at the area of the neck of course and see if there is active hemorrhaging or bleeding within the ligature area or the felt area that went around his neck. If there is, if there was active bleeding then it would indicate he was alive when that happened. If there

is no active bleeding then it would indicate he had already been deceased. We'd have to look at each and every one of the impacts that the bat made to make sure that there was a fatal injury underneath the skin, broken bones, damaged organs, bleeding of that nature. And we'd have to send a sample off to toxicology to make sure that drugs or other chemicals were not involved in the death. And all of this, Cheryl McCollum, because of a dating app threesome. Could it have gone any more wrong, Cheryl? I don't know how. I mean, you just, you think here this person decides, you know, to cheat and they're going

to do it in their own home thinking the boyfriend is not going to come early. But the reality is you also have two minors associated with that house and another adult male. I mean, the odds of, you know, being caught, if you will, for cheating is going to be pretty easy. And then again, the horrors that occurred in that house, the dead body laying there, a woman in a back room begging for her life, begging to go to the restroom, begging for something to drink. And you've got two teenagers in that home while at least the post-violence is happening. They're in the house with the dead body, too. They're in a house with a woman begging to go to the restroom. It's horrifying.

Guys, take a listen to our cut six. This is Randy Moore at 14 UWFIE. Autopsy results from the man shot by police on Evansville's West Side earlier this week. The coroner says 46-year-old Carrie Hammond died from multiple gunshot wounds to the chest. Carrie Hammond was shot by police officers after they say he raised what appeared to be a weapon as he walked out of the door of a home on Simpson Avenue. Police went to the home after getting a call that a body was inside. Police say Hammond killed 50-year-old Timothy Ivey after finding Ivey and a woman with his girlfriend inside the home. Police say they found the woman restrained and she had been beaten and raped.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, we all hear the slogan, sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Well, it didn't turn out that way here. This is anything but a party. Take a listen to Shelly Kirk, WEHT. The Vandiver County coroner says 50-year-old Timothy Ivey was the man who was found dead inside the home on Stinson Avenue. An autopsy is scheduled for Ivey tomorrow morning. Also, an autopsy was performed on Kerry Hammond. He's the suspect who died after officers fired on him, as they say he pointed what looked

like a gun at them. The coroner reports Hammond died from multiple gunshot wounds to the chest. Police say Ivy was found dead at the home and another woman was bound and raped following a planned meetup that involved sex and drugs. Again, could it have gone any more wrong? Of course, police under intense scrutiny for firing on Kerry Hammond when he comes out of the home. They say, don't they, Valerie Lyons? He looked like he had a gun and Heidi Carter had already come out with a gun. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And, you know, in those situations, you know, you see something that looks like a gun and you're already in, you know, this this crazy situation as it is with all this information.

And police say, you know, they did what they had to do. Guys, take a listen to our cut. Jump in, Matthew. Well, yes, you know, the police are justified in using lethal force if there's imminent potential harm for serious bodily injury. And so someone comes out on the doorstep and they have what looks like a gun and you have everything else that you know about the circumstances, the police would be justified in using lethal force in that situation. You know, another thing, Dr. Jory Crawson, jumping off what Matthew Mangino just said, you know, cops are expected to be superhuman, but they're people just like us. And yes, I know there are bad cops. I know that. And I hate it. But when you think about the cop's position out on the street, they see violence, gun violence all day long.

And then somebody comes out of a house. You already know there's one dead body in there, a woman tied up. Another woman was almost killed and managed to escape. And somebody comes out and it looks like they're holding a weapon. Of course you're going to shoot. They've been told over and over and over, come out with your hands up. And this guy doesn't come out with his hands up. His hands were finally revealed and that's where it looked like he had a weapon. So again, the behavior was initiated by him. The police just responded for their safety. Guys, how could it all have degenerated in this manner from what was supposed to be a fun date, end up with all these dead bodies?

Take a listen to Our Cut 11, Jessica Costello, 14 News, WFIE. Well, after the release of that body camera footage, Evansville Police Sergeant Anna Gray walked me through what she says we are not able to see in that video, including the four minutes that officers were asking Carrie Hammond repeatedly to come outside with his hands up. The body camera footage reveals the first man, now identified as the homeowner, Jason Harvey, coming outside with his hands up, complying with police. Police say the next several minutes included commands from officers for the next man, now identified as Kerry Hammond, to also come outside with his hands up. You had officers who were staged all along the front of the home using things such as, you know, police vehicles as barricades and cover. You know, there were some trees out there that officers were behind as well.

From our view, we can't see inside of the door, but police say Hammond was making himself visible to police before stepping out. If this is an open doorway right here, they can actually see movement where somebody is kind of going in and out of the doorway and they are telling him, we see you, we see you, come out. But it didn't end that way. Here's more from Jessica Costello. They're giving him commands, you, we see you, come out. But it didn't end that way. Here's more from Jessica Costello. They're giving him commands, you know, come out, come out.

Police say this goes on for four minutes, and when Hammond did come out, they considered it in an aggressive manner. I mean, it happens very fast. He comes out quickly. There are officers in front of him. He comes out, and he doesn't show his hands. He has his hands out in front and he is holding an object out and pointing it. This is a shooter stance. Police say if Hammond would have

walked out of the home as officers told him to do, the situation would have ended differently. The suspect is deceased and we can't ask him these type of questions. But when you are surrounded by police officers and you come out with an object that appears to be a gun and you're pointing it like it's a gun, I hate to use the word assume, but I can only assume that that is going to, in somebody's mind, go, this is going to get me shot. This is going to get me killed. We call these types of situations suicide by cop. Suicide by cop. Guys, the only way we're finding out any information about what was going on inside that house before there were multiple murders, take a listen to our cut 13 from our friends at WFIE. Now, I did mention Jason Harvey, the man that first walked out of the house with

his hands up. That's the homeowner. We were able to contact him today, and although he did not want to appear on camera, he did give us a statement and some clarification. Harvey says he and his two children, who were inside of the home, are in shock today. Harvey says this of Heidi Carter, the woman now charged with murder. I invited Heidi into our home because she was living in a motel and needed a place to stay. She and my kids had a good bond. She never showed any signs of being like what had transpired. Harvey says Carter was inviting her boyfriend, Carrie Hammond, over even when he asked her not to because of his kids. He

says during the time of the incident, I was at work or buying groceries. I had laid down. When I came out of the bathroom, I noticed lights in my windows and I went downstairs to find out what was going on, only to be backed out to the police. And that's when Harvey says he realized just how extreme the situation was. All this going on with children, with minors in the home. So Valerie Lyons, while we think that it is, it was in fact Carrie Hammond, who was the killer who raped and hogtied the female victim. I understand now that Heidi Carter is also charged with murder and abuse of a corpse. Yeah, that's right. The affidavit even says that, you know, she helped him tie up the victim. She

held that gun. She made threats that she apparently knew someone in Indianapolis who could hide a body. So she definitely helped in all of this. I can't say for sure. Hammond is now dead. All those charges really weigh on her now. Imagine that scenario, Cheryl McCollum. You go on a dating app. You go meet up with another woman.

You bring along your boyfriend. They think it's going to be a threesome. And then all hell, and I mean hell, with the devil himself showing up breaks loose. It's awful. Again, I think we need to go back. And I think things like your book, How Not to Become a Victim, comes into play here. You have met somebody on a dating app, which means you don't know that person. You arrive at a home that should give you some clue that, hey, this is not maybe the type of place that I need to go

because they've now got home court advantage, so to speak. There's drugs involved. There's alcohol involved. Everything went wrong, Cheryl. When it comes to dating apps, you're absolutely right. And everybody, jump in if you've got a better idea. But never go alone somewhere. Never go to somebody else's home the first time

you meet them to a private place. Don't do that. I mean, everything you're not supposed to do is exactly what they did. And now there are dead bodies piling up at the morgue. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.