Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DAY 73, BROOKE-HUBBY: "BLOOD EVERYWHERE" NO ARREST

Episode Date: August 21, 2026

It's been 73 days since Brooke Hanlon was found murdered in the master bedroom of her home. No suspect has been named, nor has an arrest been made.  Brooke, a 35-year-old psychotherapist and mother, found stabbed to death inside her New Jersey  home.  Her death has been ruled a homicide, caused by multiple sharp force injuries  Husband James 'Conor' Hanlon calls 911 around 4:30 PM after finding his wife bloddied and unconscious on the second floor of the home. He described a major laceration to her chest area to the operator saying "there's blood everywhere". No suspects have been publicly named.  TIPLINE: Chester Police at 908-879-5100Crimestoppers at 973-267-2255.  $1,000 reward for information leading to an arrest   Joining Nancy Grace: Mark Astor - Criminal Defense Attorney at Astor Simovitch Law,  Host: 'The Journey by Mark Astor,' Website: mentalhealthaddictionlawfirm.com  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst,  Author: "Deal Breaker," featured on "Paris in Love" on Peacock and "The Valley, Persian Style" on Bravo.   Host: "On The Couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall"  Website: drbethanymarshall.com, Instagram FB & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter:@DrBethanyLive Carl DeFazio  -  PI at 'Carl DeFazio Private Investigations' in New Jersey, Author: "Let Me Handle This: A Private Investigator's Story"   Lisa J. Miller - Former Detective, Former Chief Investigator, Senior Executive Colorado AGs Office. X: @LisaJMillerCOPh: 812-639-6212   Dr. Kendall Crowns -  Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue”, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)  Vanessa Walsh - Host of the podcast, Unmasked True Crime. Facebook and YouTube: UnmaskedTrueCrime, X: CrimeUnmasked  Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto-pay. credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Balshell tonight. Young mom, Brooke Hanlon's husband says, there's blood everywhere. No arrest. What? No arrest. A young mother stabbed dead on the second floor of her suburban home. and we don't have an arrest. What, is there a serial killer wandering around that suburban neighborhood? Good evening.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. I just found my wife. I don't know what's going to her. CPR. I need CPR. Disinstruction.

Okay, she's not breathing her conscious. Oh, my God. There's a, there's a laceration in. There we go. No. Bear with me one moment. No. Just stay in the line and need some more information, okay?

No! No! No! I need you here. I need you here immediately. Sir, she is bleeding and she's not conscious. Is that correct? No! Okay, okay. Oh, my God. Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! I'm curious about the fingernail scrapings. Was there signs of a struggle? Were their defense wounds on the victim? So a lot of value, a lot of evidentiary value coming out of this case. You were hearing a portion of that 911 call. We have combed over it over and over and over every single word,

including the tone of his voice when it goes up to a falsetto. Curious, what, if anything, does it mean? Maybe nothing. And you were also hearing retired deputy chief at the Hartford PD, Brian Foley with our friends at Fox News. What does it mean? This is what it means. No arrest.

Listen to this. But it's been two months since 35-year-old Brooke Hamlin was killed in her Chester, New Jersey home, and there has still not been an arrest. There has been very little information released about this case, which I think has left a lot of people wondering, does that mean that they have someone, that they have their eye on, and they're building a case,

or does it mean the exact opposite and they have no clue who did this? That is Tay True Crime Psycho Ed. Let's focus on what we know tonight. Straight out to Vanessa Waltz joining us. She is the star of unmasked true crime that shot to the forefront. During the Lynette Hooker debacle, who I might add still has not been found. No charges, no arrest. Wait a minute, Vanessa.

Maybe it's you. because all of the cases you're investigating, they're dead wives, and there's never an arrest, and there's never a resolution. We'll focus on that later. But Vanessa, where has the husband been? No suspects, no person of interest named as of tonight. It's reported that after the murder,

that he did go to Massachusetts, where his parents are for a while. He did come back in mid-July. He is reportedly back in Chester, New Jersey now. However, their one-year-old daughter, Avery, is reportedly still staying with Brooks' parents. To Mark Aster, joining us, high-profile lawyer out of Boca Raton, Florida. He founded the Aster Simovic Law Group, and he is a star of The Journey by Mark Aster. Aster.

Hi. Thank you for being with us tonight. In this case, of course, the husband has not been done. named a suspect, has not been named a person of interest? Well, I appreciate what you're saying, Nancy, but it's not like he got on a plane and flew to Europe or somewhere else where there's no jurisdiction over him. I mean, he went to his parents. So what? Are we going to read into that and say, well, he must be guilty because he went to mummy and daddy's house. I don't think that's any evidence, frankly, of anything. In fact, as you

pointed out, it's been 70 plus days since this occurred. If law enforcement had probable cause to arrest him, they would have done it. Or they would have gone to a judge and said, Your Honor, here's an application for an arrest warrant. Please sign off on this so we can go and arrest this person. So that hasn't happened. So the fact that he went to his parents, I don't read anything into that at all. And he came back. So what? What does that tell us? That's not evidence. We're lawyers, former prosecutors. We rely on evidence. I don't see that as evidence of anything. Oh, wow. You really let me have it. Of course, it's not evidence probative. court you know what i'm not a shrink to dr bethany marshall joining us we're now psychoanalyst out of

the l a jurisdiction she is the author of deal breaker you can see her on hulu on peacock on netflix and she's a star of a hit new podcast on the couch with dr bethany marshall dr bethany of course it's not probative that he did anything but i think it tells me something about his priorities, leaving your wife's only child who has gone through her own trauma. What did she hear? What did you see? I don't know that. It's probably all locked up here in that child's head.

But leaving her and going to mommy and daddy's house while your daughter is alone with the grandparents, no mom and no dad, that tells me something. I'm not quite sure what. Nancy, it may not be hard evidence, but it's behavioral evidence, which tells us a lot. And in many cases, it's not what we see. It's what we don't see. Man, I could analyze that 911 call all day long. I'm also curious about what former deputy chief of Hartford PD, Brian Foley said about fingernail scrapings. back to Vanessa Walsh joining a star of unmasked true crime. What can you tell me about the discoveries made at the scene? What do we know about any potential forensics?

What we do know is when first responders did arrive, they immediately within two minutes, knew that this scene looked suspicious. And at 442, so just 13 minutes after Conner's 911 call, they had deemed Brooks' death as suspicious and called in the major crime. zoom at it. All right, the paramedics have been sent to stay in the line. Yeah, yeah. What? If there's a defibrillator available, send someone to get in now and tell me when you have it,

sir. No, I don't have one. I don't have it. Not available? Okay. I don't know what to do. I don't know what. Okay, please put your phone on speaker so your hands are free to help her, sir. It's on speaker. It's on speaker. I did not move in.

No, please. No, no, no, no, no, no. All right, listen carefully and I'll tell you how to do chest compression. Sir, place the heel of your hand on the breast. bone in the center of the chest, right between the nipples. There's a cut. That's where there's a cut. I'm sorry, what was that, sir?

There's blood everywhere. We're going to do this 600 times or until help can take over. Okay, count out loud so I can count with you, okay? One. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, one, two, three, four. One, one, two, three, four.

One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. Keep going, sir, you're doing great. We're going to do this 600 times or until help can take over, okay? One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. Help is on the way, sir. Keep going.

I need you. Try and take a deep breath, sir. Three, four. One, three, four. One, no, no, breath, no. No, I need you. Four. Where are you in the house?

A second floor Okay Okay, keep going One, two, three, four And speaking of the second floor I'm not the only one Who noticed this clue Here are three

Interesting facts regarding the Brooke handling case That a lot of people are not considering Number one This happened in broad daylight On the second floor of her home Guys, she didn't live on a busy road She lived like in the woods. You had to take a long driveway and a long path to get to her house.

So someone doing that has to know exactly where she lives and know where that path would lead to. And then up on the second floor and broad daylight, that either means she was being chased and she succumbed to the injuries up there or someone knew exactly where to find her. So that's just number one. Broad daylight and on the second floor. That from at laugh and grind official TikTok, he noticed it. Straight out to Lisa J. Miller, former detective, former chief investigator, senior executive Colorado AG's office. Lisa, thank you for being with us. Let's address his observation that she was tucked away up on the second floor, which means an intruder would have to come in, no forced entry, not setting off a burglar alarm, make their way up to the second floor and find her. There's no sex attack, there's no robbery, there's no burglary, find her and murder her and get out before the husband could get back from buying an auto part.

What does that say? What inference can we draw from that? What, if anything, does it prove you're seeing the home from our friends at Fox News. Hit it, Lisa. Well, we can't make a lot of inferences here because there's a lot of facts we don't know. her being located in the bedroom, would make me wonder and start asking questions. And I'm sure investigators are doing all these things. The sad part of this is right now is those of us out here in the public sphere, we just don't have a lot to go on. We can speculate about a lot of things here,

but we just don't have a whole lot of things to look at and judge from facts because we're not getting facts. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month.

Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Straight up to Dave Mac, joining his crime stories investigative reporter. Dave Matt, it was my understanding that there was no forced entry. No burglar alarm went off. 911 was called.

I mean, 2 plus 2 still equals 4, doesn't it, Jackie? Yeah, okay, it does. Nothing changed overnight. He called 911. No burglar alarm was active. nothing was tripped to call investigators or police to the scene. So no burglar alarm went off. We understand there was no forced entry and the autopsy is done.

Nothing was stated about a sex attack. Also, from what we are learning, there was no struggle in the foyer or the entrance. Let's see the picture or the video of the home. again where you come in the front door nothing seemingly was amiss there as you see the glass is not busted there's no prime marks on the door we don't have fingerprint dust the dark fingerprint powder all over the door the handle to find out who came in because there was no forced entry Dave mac that's what we have right now and see when we first started covering this nancy I was looking at the entry, you know, because I thought if it wasn't attacked from somebody she didn't know,

then maybe she was fleeing upstairs because she was found it upstairs in the master bedroom. But Nancy, when you get down to this, you've got blood just up in the master bedroom. We're not told of it being anywhere else. And as you mentioned, there's no sign of any kind of a scuffle happening in the entryway. So we're just up on the second floor of a house that's not like sitting side by side with other homes. to know where it is. And again, nothing stolen either. It isn't a robbery gone wrong. This is actually, you'd say, but targeted. It had to be. And we've got Connor handling, which we still don't know exactly when he left to go to the auto parts store. We don't know

exactly when he returned. We just know that he called 911 at 429. Let me see that aerial view you were just showing me. It's a heavily wooded area. And as we were hearing earlier, there are trails leading to this home through the woods. You kind of have to know where you're going to find it. Let's see the overhead view. There you go.

See her home in the midst of all of those trees? who would have the motive to go through those trees to get to Brooke Hanlon up in her room on the second floor of the home and kill her. Dave Mack, isn't it true that there is a room in the basement? I wonder if there's an entry there that is the same level as the garage in the home. Dave, let's take a look at that picture again of the home. Wow, that's amazing. You're right. There is a possible entry into that basement that somebody who, again, you mentioned the pathways, Nancy. Whoever did this knew where they were going and knew what they were getting into.

So, yeah, they could have gotten in from the down from the basement and gone up as maybe they were lying in wait until Connor left. Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us, Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, and he's, He's the star of Mayhem in the Morg, a hit podcast. Also, he is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. He has performed literally thousands of autopsies. What is your analysis of the wound to Brooke Hanlon? So the information we have at the present time is the husband stating that it's a laceration on the chest. Now, people call lacerations are actually lacerations are caused by blunt force trauma.

But people often confuse them with stab wounds or incised wounds, which is caused by sharp force trauma, which is what her cause of death was made. So if she has a laceration on her chest, it's probably a stab wound that he misinterpreted as a laceration from a knife being plunged into her chest at about heart level and going through her heart or lungs and then she bled out. I'm curious if there were multiple stab wounds or one stab wound. Dr. Kendall Crowns, can you describe what a medical examiner would see if there were overlapping stab wounds that seem that appear to be one stab wound? How does that happen? So you can have in a stab wound situations where the individual stabs the person and then pulls the knife down, creating a bigger gaping wound. You can also have where they stab into the individual and then don't pull the knife all the way out and stab again. So you get two separate wound tracks from one knife wound.

Then, of course, when you have clusters of stab wounds where they're stabbing over and over and over into the same kind of tight circle area, you get multiple stabs in a specific spot and then all those wound tracks kind of go together in aggregate, basically ripping apart whatever is underneath them. And you see these a lot, especially when someone's incredibly angry at the individual that they're stabbing. And it's a term that we call overkill, where they just continue to stab,

even though they've gone past the point of where that stab wound would have killed them, and they keep stabbing and stabbing and stabbing over and over. You see this in domestic cases or intimate partner violence, and you also see it in situations like with Brian Cole, where he just kept stabbing those individuals. Dr. Crowns, I look back at my notes and they say that there were multiple stab wounds in the chest and body.

Chest and body. Now, it seems to me if the PURP was coming in to front, maybe they saw the husband leaving to go get the auto parts and thought, oh, nobody's home. I'll go in and, what, take the TV. or the VCR, they go in, they see her. Now, this is anecdotal, Dr. Crowns, but in my experience, when a burglar breaks in, they see a person, they leave, they run,

and pray to God they don't get identified. It's very rare when a burglar, a true burglar, comes in and stabs the victim when they are found. So the coming in to burgle, finding a victim at home, and then taking time to kill them, much less multiple stab wounds all over the body and chest. I want to hear what you make of it. And where most likely the stab wounds are to her body.

Okay, well, again, you've shown pictures of the house. It's out in the middle of nowhere in the woods. It'd be odd for someone to be sitting out there watching and waiting for that moment to break in and steal things. I would think people would notice some unusual car out there sitting around. they'd pick up on it and spot it. So it's a very odd situation. You're correct, often with burglary. They don't kill the individual.

If they're persons in the house, they just get out of there and run because they don't want to go to prison. But of course, occasionally they do stay and kill people. But it's the use of a knife is odd to me because most of the burglars go in. They have their cheap gun or they'll beat you to death with something that's at hand, but they don't use a knife. Now, as far as stab wounds all over the body, the thing about a stab wound is you can't kill a person instantaneously with a stab wound. You don't have that kinetic energy like you have with a bullet. So the person will continue to run around and try and fight back. So you'll get injuries to the hands and arms, which are defensive wounds.

Then you'll get multiple stabs to different locations of the body as the person's moving and then eventually dying. So you probably have multiple wounds to the chest. hitting lungs and heart, wounds to the abdomen, hitting the liver and the intestines. It's just difficult to say how many and where they're at, what exactly got hit. But all we do know is there's sharp force injuries and she's dead. I would agree with you, doctor,

because if she was stabbed in the chest, it makes more sense for the other bodily stabbing to be on the front of the body, such as the arms, the neck, the abdomen. Joining us now, Carl DeFazio, former NYPD detective, P.I. at Carl DeFazio, private investigations in New Jersey. Carl, thank you for being with us.

I'm curious about why this has been kept under wraps. You know, they went three weeks without even releasing Brooks' name? I've never heard of that. Nothing, not a zilch, zero? What the hay? Yeah, Nancy, I agree with the. a doctor you had on previously about the conditions of the stab wounds and all that, but I'm looking at this from a different perspective. Why is this any different? Why is it being handled anything different than another homicide that happens, unfortunately, in this country quite often?

Why are we investigating this differently? What are we missing? Right? Why in the police doing this basically the way they do it and every other celebrity or non-celebrity murder, right? What's going on, right? To your point. Why is it three weeks? Why did it take so long to interview the neighbors? What about the crime scene? Was there a weapon found? Was it a household weapon? It's a big difference between lacerations and stab wounds and it's Unfortunately, well fortunately, I guess it's not easy to kill yourself or kill someone unless you're in a fit of rage or you're professionally know what you're doing So I don't think it's a burglary. Is there any signs of burglary? Is there any signs of break-in? Is there any signs of break-in? That's the point where I'm getting to. Why is it not out there that this isn't a break-in, no signs of break-in, no signs of this?

They're not giving this anything. So that tells me they're holding something back. Now, is it something that the family agreed upon? They don't want out there? These are all speculations on my point, on my behalf. Is it something that they don't want out there for the sake of, you know, embarrassing the family or whatever? The husband's not a person of interest or suspect, not. I think, why is this any different than anything else?

We're missing something, and they know what that something is. That ME's report will speak volumes. That's key to me. Is it laceration? Was an aorta punctured? Were there any defensive wounds like your previous caller said? I don't know. You know, these are things that that ME's report.

What actually was the cause of death? Did she bleed the death? Or did she puncture her carotid artery with the knife? or give someone puncturing. You know, who benefits by this girl's death? I would check everything. That's what a basic investigator does. Who's on the will?

Who's on the insurance? Who's the last person to talk to her? Who's in the house? Carl Defazio, former NYPD detective, P.I. at Carl DeFazio Private Investigations in New Jersey, joining us tonight. Dr. Bethany, in a home that is surrounded by dense woods. I want to talk to you about the attack

on her body. What does that mean when a woman victim is stabbed across her body, potentially the face, the breasts, I don't know where else? Well, it's up close and personal, all right? It's usually rage or overkill. If it was a serial killer, let's just go with that for a second, somebody who emerged from the woods, one of those five trails that led to a meeting point behind her house. The type of killing would be very different. usually strangulation and then dismemberment of the face. Okay. And there would have been similar incidents in nearby communities or states.

Let's say the overkill is from meth. That's one of the things we frequently see and somebody wandered in. If that was the case, that person would still be in the vicinity, disorganized, easily found. What I see with this is a haphazard attempt to kill somebody without much. knowledge of what it takes to kill somebody. To former detective, former chief investigator, senior executive Colorado AG's office, Lisa Miller with us tonight.

Lisa, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the husband's alibi. You know, on the face of this, with the reporting that he was headed off to a store, we have to look at this, that it's really strange to think that in a county where there's not much violent crime at all and even less in this particular township. This particular township does not have in-home stabbing murders. So that is a problem. But right now, we do not know how this investigation's being handled. It may be being handled very, very well. I'm from the school of slow and methodical. As I said earlier, we don't have law enforcement

throwing facts out. So there's many, many things that we don't know. We're gleaning things from reporting. We're gleaning some things from social media. But we can't rule out as good detectives that this could have been a targeted attack towards her from someone that she had worked with. Keep in mind, she was a therapist.

And in taking a look at, at who may have targeted her, talking about slow and methodical, the privilege of her clients did not die with her. They still have privilege. So the investigators, as they are going about their business, they can get some administrative records, like maybe some calendar information.

They can get some client information. But if they are finding or hearing through their investigation that there is a client that had boundary issues with her, where she had talked to them. To get to her therapist notes in those records, they have to go through a judge. They're going to have to present pretty, pretty relevant type facts.

And even with that, a special master is going to have to go through these records to see what law enforcement can gain access to. It's a prudent investigation for law enforcement for these detectives come through and not only investigate this husband, because we all know the statistics of that, but we also have to look at alternate suspects and rule those out. Otherwise, that detective and the prosecutor are going to get creamed if this ever goes to trial. Number two, why did Chester, New Jersey officials wait three weeks to release the name of the victim being Brooke Hanlon? It does make some logical and strategic sense, because if you're in a small town where crimes like this typically do not have,

It can cause chaos, it can cause people to freak out. I can understand it, but three weeks. There's people finding out about this case now that live in New Jersey. Last but not least, the 911 call recording. This 911 call was made by Connor, the husband. Now, originally when he got there, he said, I don't think she's breathing. I need, I need instructions on CPR. When he said that the automatic detail recorder that most dispatchers have nowadays, so when you're on the phone and they're spitting out information, they take notes automatically. while you're trying to speak to the person on the phone. According to this automatic detail recorder and reporter, they looked at it as a cardiac arrest because he said she wasn't breathing.

So they said cardiac arrest. As they continued to talk, and then Connor realized there was multiple sharp force wounds to her body, it then turned to a possible suspicious, you know what, if that makes sense. Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the vet? veggies. Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full,

or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.orgia for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. straight out to Mark Astor joining us. He is a renowned criminal defense attorney out of the Boca Raton jurisdiction and founded the Astor Simovic Law Firm.

Mark, thanks again for being with us tonight. I want to, you have handled... Oh, by the way, that's from at Laugh and Grind official on TikTok. I'd like to hear your analysis. And believe me, yes, statistically, we look at the husband first and look at the wife first when the husband is killed. But we can't close all... avenues of investigation. I mean, look at Brian Koeberger. Who would have thought a seemingly

unrelated Ph.D. student at a different university was responsible for four brutal murders. If cops had honed in on boyfriends, ex-boyfriends, girlfriends, girlfriends, that we may not know the truth today. So we cannot close avenues of investigation. I want to hear your thoughts on that. Well, I agree with you, Nancy. I mean, there's a whole lot of speculation here. You know, we hear the 911 tape, and to me, he sounds like a panicked husband. And the first thing he says is, I found my wife.

When the paramedics get there, he repeats that statement. I found her. Now, either he's very conniving and he's, you know, creating his own defense, or he really did just find her. Now, the idea that this was not a burglary gone wrong, I, because there's no sign of fourth century, I respectfully disagree with that. How do we know that this was not just a crime of opportunity?

And she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and a struggle broke out. How do we know it was actually a knife? I agree, she was stabbed. Do we know that it was a knife? Do we know that maybe there was a pair of scissors and a fight broke out and she was stabbed with something else other than a knife?

I don't think we know that yet. Now, if there was a struggle, I would have to presume, like in the Koboga case, there was some DNA evidence. I mean, it seems like this has taken a little bit of time to get that DNA evidence, which hopefully would reveal who she potentially had a struggle with. And if it was really the husband, if it was really Connor, don't we think he would have, would have been arrested by now if they had his DNA under her fingernails?

So there's a lot of unanswered questions here. I mean, he said he went to get parts for the car or he was working on his car. So what? Maybe he went to get a windshield wiper blade or maybe he went to get some oil or some antifreeze. we don't know just because he said he was working on his car doesn't mean to say that that's not an alibi and again as i think that the investigator said there's going to be a timeline here we'll be able to verify that if he went to an auto part store did they see him do they have him on camera most of these places have video surveillance so we can verify a lot of this but there's a lot of

speculation going on here especially amongst the tick top community who seem to think you know well this happened in broad daylight why didn't we see it it did not happen in broad daylight it happened in the privacy of somebody's home. So it's not like we can expect there to be a lot of witnesses to this. Now, if the husband had actually conspired with another individual, and basically, you know, this was a murder for hire, then I would imagine law enforcement is looking for that individual or individuals. And if this was targeted, okay, we're now looking at a different scenario and maybe the husband is a co-conspirator, right? He solicited somebody. He's a principal. But right now we have zero evidence of that. And so, well, I get it. It's easy to say, well, it's the husband. It's

always the husband. And maybe it is. Right now, we don't have any solid evidence to confirm that that is the case. We just simply don't. So I think we have to be very open-minded about this, Nancy. To Vanessa Walsh, star of unmasked true crime, Vanessa, Lisa Miller brought up a really good point that she is a psychotherapist, much like Dr. Bethany. And she deals with mentally ill and emotionally disturbed people all day. So one of the things police may be doing is investigating many of her, let me say, clients with violent tendencies. Maybe one of them is preoccupied with her.

Maybe one of them is angry with her. That would take a lot of time, right? Absolutely, Nancy. And although that is a possibility and something that, investigators are definitely looking into. From what we've heard from friends and family, Brooke was a very kind, loving person. They weren't aware of any person in her past. I mean, obviously, they wouldn't know about her clients, but they weren't aware of any person in her past that she had problems with or that would wish her harm. I do think one of the most interesting things about this case isn't

just what police aren't saying. It's what they aren't doing. We are not seeing a lot of public press conferences where they're telling residents to lock their doors, be hyper-vigilant, you'll report anything you see to the police. Nothing like that. No descriptions of suspicious people or vehicles. So police behavior doesn't really seem to indicate that they feel that there's some knife-wielding maniac running around Chester, New Jersey. Curious to Dr. Bethany Marshall, you are a very famous psychoanalyst. and you don't always know what your client's issue is when they walk in the door. Have you ever had a client become obsessed with you or actually become afraid of a client or in fear for your safety?

Several times. And it's compounded by the fact that not only do they come into my office, but they see me on television. So that just entrenches the obsession. One actually called my licensing board and said, I can't remember what, something like Dr. Marshall won't return my calls. Well, the fact is, she called me 100 times in one day. You know, what I would say about this case is my experiences of feeling stalked were shared with my spouse and my friends, my neighborhood, because we always have to be careful about somebody coming to our door. my husband's a judge, so they have to take special precautions as well. So did she tell anyone in her close circle that she felt, you know, compromised or endangered? Yeah, HIPAA is a thing and confidentiality

is a thing, but that does go out the window when you feel you are endangered. And the other thing is we are not required to treat patients who compromise our ability to provide good care, meaning that they make us feel scared or unsafe. She does telehealth, right? She's working out of her house. If it was an unstable patient, they would know exactly where she is. But only her husband would know if she felt threatened. And one small thing, too, those cars seem relatively new.

And I don't know about you. I remember my dad and brother working on our cars and going to the automobile shop. and it was a thing back in the 80s and the 90s until there were computers installed in our cars and it's not so easy anymore. What was he working on? Does he have a history of working on the car? Had they ever seen him before in that auto shop?

Was he really purchasing something that would be appropriate, like a part that would be appropriate for a more modern day car? There's a lot to analyze there, as there is with so many parts of this case. If you know or think you know anything regarding the murder of Brooke Hanlon, please dial 973-267-2255. We remember an American hero, Officer Eric Lee, Chicago PD, 37, shot and killed in the line of duty, living behind his grieving wife, Sean, and a little daughter, Erica. American Hero Officer Eric Lee.

And tonight, we honor K-9 Ozzie, Connecticut Department Corrections. Ozzie has a life-saving bullet stab vest up to $1,200 each. That's not standard issue. Vested interest in canines. Donates over 6,600. That's 7,000 canine vests nationwide. help protect the canines who risk their lives to save ours. Plus, they donate Narcan and First Aid kits.

Thank you. Vested interests. I want to thank all of our guests, but especially you for being with us tonight and every night. Nancy Grace signing off. I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night. This is an eye. Heart Podcast. Guaranteed human.