Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DEAD EYES: LAKEN RILEY MURDER SUSPECT BLANK STARES AT BODY VIDEO, "SLEPT LIKE BABY" AFTER MURDER

Starting point is 00:00:00 This is an I Heart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dead eyes. The Lake and Riley murder suspect stares blankly as body cam video shows the moment this beautiful young girl's body is found, ravaged, beaten, disfigured. Now we learn he, quote, slept like a baby after the murder. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I found it.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Ma'am. Ma'am. Ma'am. Oh. I need you to mess immediately to the location where the phone hangs. You are hearing heartbreaking sound in an Athens courtroom where the body of Lakin Riley is found. You hear LA law enforcement stating, I need EMS immediately. I need EMS immediately sent to the location of the phone ping. Throughout tonight's presentation, you will see state's evidence throughout.

Starting point is 00:01:21 And let me warn you, it is very, very disturbing. Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, straight out to the courthouse, standing by, CrimeOnline.com's investigative reporter, Dave Mack. Dave, what's happening at the courthouse? Right now, Nancy, gearing up for another incredible day. You know, several times the judge has already had to warn people about what they're about to see so they can actually exit out of the courtroom. We're looking at a trial, Nancy, that includes blood of the suspect and the victim on the black coat

Starting point is 00:01:49 he's seen putting in the dumpster. We've got the technology that actually is able to pinpoint the moment that she is attacked. Lakin-Riley is attacked. How long it lasts, how it ends, everything is documented with data. Nancy, it's the most incredible story of technology and good old-fashioned hard work from the police officers to build this case against Jose Ibarra. Dave Mack, this is what I noticed in the courtroom yesterday, and I'm sure you've noticed it having been in the courtroom throughout the day. I sat about 10 or 11 feet directly behind the murder suspect Ibarra and he's sitting there and he keeps looking very meek and mild. He shows no affect whatsoever. Okay. There's video guys,

Starting point is 00:02:34 just so you know, we're showing you state's exhibits. There is, according to the state suspect, Jose Ibarra, Jose Antonio Ibarra throwing away the jacket that he wore during the murder. It's covered in Lakin's DNA. Now, when you take a close up look at that, like I saw in court yesterday, he under the jacket is wearing a very distinctive shirt. And I couldn't understand, Dave, you've seen it now, what they were talking about, white and gray. Okay.

Starting point is 00:03:12 I assumed it was a white t-shirt with some type of a gray writing or character on the front. It's not. It's a shirt that has what we would call what Americans would probably call Egyptian or even Greek decoration on it. There's the there's the jacket that was taken out of the dumpster. That's it in the dumpster right on top. They didn't even have to look hard. And what's so significant?

Starting point is 00:03:42 Hey, hold on, Dave May. Joining me right now is Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Foundation and star of Zone 7. Cheryl, the thing him from behind, right? But then up comes an eyewitness that identifies Ibarra as the person that throws away the jacket. And there's the body cam video of when they discover it, that IDs Ibarra as the person that throws the jacket away and even identifies that very distinctive white and gray shirt. Nancy, what's critical to me is where he came, the direction he came from when he threw the jacket in the dumpster. He's coming from the murder scene. When the jacket is right on top, it actually preserves trace evidence like Lakin's hair. You know, another issue, and Dave Mack, I'm sure you've seen it in court today. What is so significant about the shirt that I'm talking about is that just before the murders, Dave Mack, Ibarra was posting selfies.

Starting point is 00:05:01 And he was also doing Snapchat photos and WhatsApping. And in those photos, this is the significance of the shirt. You can see the shirt on the bottom left, second from the left of the screen we're showing you right now and the bottom right, second from the right on the bottom. That shirt, if you could ISO in on the bottom right photo, that hat and that shirt critical because just before the murder, thank you, just before the murders, he is posting himself and Snapchat photos and more wearing that shirt that shirt and that is the same shirt there you go that's the selfie I'm talking about with the front the sling back on his front the gray that's the shirt I'm talking about very distinctive can you go back one if you don't mind control room? Because I can see the, yes,

Starting point is 00:06:05 I can see that print on it. That's what he's wearing within an hour before the murder and the hat. Then when he takes off that jacket, according to the state and throws the jacket covered in her blood and DNA. Lo and behold, there he is. He basically, you know, Daryl Cohen, you're the veteran trial lawyer. This is your jurisdiction. Daryl Cohen, he might as well have said, hey, it's me. He should have just taken out a billboard on 3rd Avenue and said, here I am wearing the same thing the killer was wearing one hour before the murder, Daryl Cohen. All right, so Nancy, he's wearing a shirt. He's wearing a shirt that was very distinctive. But that doesn't mean he did it.

Starting point is 00:06:53 There isn't a video of him doing it. There is no eyewitness of him committing a crime. There's more to this than just being arrested. Did you just say, Cohen, that there's not video of him committing the murder? I think I heard that. You did. There's no eyewitness. Okay. You know what? I'm going to pretend that didn't happen. Maybe that had something to do with the fact that her Garmin watch shows that she was dragged 64 feet off the trail into the woods. I want to get back on track with what's happening in the courtroom because when you're in the middle of a densely wooded copse of trees, no one can see what you're doing. That's why crimes very often happen behind closed doors where there is no eyewitness.

Starting point is 00:07:57 But wouldn't you agree, Daryl Cohen, that a confession, an eyewitness, or DNA is deemed to be direct evidence. It is, and that's precisely why there is a bench trial, in my opinion, as opposed to a trial by jury, because he wants to mitigate... You know what? That is exactly correct. Go ahead. He wants to mitigate the possible vision by the American public. He wants to make sure that there is no death penalty, which they've agreed upon not to pursue. But he wants to mitigate it by making it less rather than more of a spectacle. So his lawyers are doing a good job in that respect.

Starting point is 00:08:44 Back to Dave Mack joining me at the courthouse. Dave Mack, did it strike you during your hours in the courtroom today how docile he looks, how meek and mild? He never murmurs. He never says anything. He just sits there as the evidence rolls in. And when that body cam video went up of when her body was discovered this 22 year old girl that had just made the dean's list when her body is found he just had dead eyes no emotion at all have you seen how meek and mild he acts in court he acts like he's there on a parking ticket nancy like he didn't do something heinous and horrible for any parent anywhere the picture the video of finding this beautiful young woman with so much in front of her and he has

Starting point is 00:09:32 destroyed her and he's sitting in there like wait a minute can i go to the bathroom i need a hall pass he acts like he's done nothing like he's got nothing to defend like he has no reason for even being there it is really disgusting to see that blank stare, those dead eyes, meaning just not even taking in what he has done. You know, Dave Mack talking about him looking like he's there for a parking ticket. I want you to hear what Sergeant Kenneth Maxwell said. Blunt force trauma to the head, her shirt pulled up above her breasts. The prosecution said in opening statement, I believe you were there also, Cheryl McCollum, when the prosecution said that that day he went hunting, hunting for a female victim.

Starting point is 00:10:29 And when I look at him in court, as I did for throughout the day yesterday, he is portraying something entirely different other than someone who beat this girl's head in with a rock and had her shirt pulled up above her breasts, Cheryl. He absolutely went hunting. He didn't care who. He just wanted a victim. The prosecution this morning spent a lot of time showing video of Obara going to a first floor apartment, opening the screen door, trying the doorknob, trying to gain entry into that apartment. For over an hour, he went back and forth to that apartment, failed to gain entry,

Starting point is 00:11:14 and then you see him on video walking toward the intramural field. You're absolutely right, Cheryl McCollum, out hunting. Listen. The peeping Tom charge Jose Ybarra faces happens the same day of Lake and Riley's murder. The victim testifies about being in the shower in her apartment in a university housing building and hearing somebody trying to open her front door. She lives alone. It's early in the day. When she gets to the door and asks who's there, she says the person was wearing a black hood,

Starting point is 00:11:39 black hat, black jacket, and black gloves. And when he hears her voice, he ducks down so she can't see his face in the peephole. She sees him again, looking into her living room window, trying to see through the blinds. Seeing the man again, the 24 year old calls 911 and gives a full description to police when they arrive. Cheryl, it sounds like straight out of a horror movie. A young lady, a young girl in the shower. She hears something goes to the door. Here's somebody trying to get in the door, jiggling the doorknob, looks at the people and says, can I help you? When he hears her voice and realize he's been spotted, he ducks down. Now who does that to hear Daryl Cohen, defense attorney? That's perfectly normal. That doesn't mean anything. Well, it means something to me that somebody tries to hide their face in the peephole.

Starting point is 00:12:28 Then he goes to her living room window and is looking through the blinds. Cheryl wisely. She calls 911, but she identifies him as wearing that black Adidas hat, a black hoodie style jacket. She even says black gloves of the, you know, kitchen variety, not the crime lab or morgue variety that Dr. Kendall Crowns will tell us about, but the, the, the kitchen plastic gloves. She sees all of that. When she discovers him, he leaves and heads toward the spot where Lakin was murdered. Within minutes, and you see it all on video, there are men around the area waiting on the University of Georgia bus. He is not deterred at all that there are men milling about. He tries her door more than once. You can see him on video dunk down and then go behinding about. He tries her door more than once.

Starting point is 00:13:27 You can see him on video dunk down and then go behind the building. He even tries to go all the way back to the back door. Nancy, again, when he leaves, you can see that he's headed right to the trail. And then you can see Lakin, Lakin, sorry, when she is coming down the path, moments later to take that left to go down towards where her body was found.

Starting point is 00:13:49 You know, Dave Mack joining me in front of the courthouse. Dave, you were there earlier today when Lakin's family had to leave the courtroom when testimony was coming up about the condition of her body. You know, Dave, we worked together a long time, and I've discussed with you how some detail, and it can be very minor, is so upsetting in cases that I prosecuted and investigated. And in this case, her body was totally, her face was disfigured and her body, oh gosh, her body was covered in dirt and mulch and debris.

Starting point is 00:14:39 And that, the fact of this beautiful girl lying, just disfigured and covered in dirt and mud, that just, it's so upsetting. I'm glad her family left from the courtroom, Dave Mack, and also today in court, video of her running, running that morning was shown. I guess more surveillance video, Dave. There is. They've got surveillance video from all around the campus, the buildings, the track area. That's how we've been able to put the case together. Nancy, one quick thing. You know, the pictures that they're showing, the videos that they're showing, you know, we've been covering this case since it began. And we kind of got to know Lake and Riley's life before all of this took over. And for those of us who have followed it, it's like we have a real connection to her as a young woman, as a college student, as somebody that could be our daughter, our granddaughter, and to see her demolished like

Starting point is 00:15:40 that. And just to think about it, we are looking at the blank stare of Mr. Dead Eyes, who doesn't even show any reaction to this beautiful young girl who's been totally destroyed. You mentioned the dirt. She's got dirt tangled in her hair, dirt and blood, leaves. You know, the police officer mentioned her shirt being pulled up. He actually clarified that to point out that it wasn't from her being dragged, you know, like you could probably try to excuse it some way like that. It was pulled up for a different reason than that. And then bashing her head with a rock, you know, that blunt force trauma. I'm telling you, Nancy, this is one of the most horrific descriptions that we've seen. And now seeing video pictures, I am glad the family got to leave. They don't need that kind of image in them for the rest of

Starting point is 00:16:24 their lives. Technology plays a big part in the trial as Riley is wearing a Garmin smartwatch when she goes out for her jog. Using data captured by the smartwatch, investigators determined something happened at 9 10 a.m. that made Lake and Riley stop dead in her tracks. Around that time, Lake and Riley hits the SOS function on her phone and calls 911. The data from the Garmin smartwatch shows Riley is on the trail with her attacker for about four minutes, and the Garmin moves 65 feet into the woods. Prosecutor Sheila Ross says once her heart stops at 928 a.m., there's no more movement from her Garmin. We have been in the courthouse throughout the trial. Joining me right now outside the courthouse is

Starting point is 00:17:05 Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Dave Mack, explain to me the significance of the Garmin watch that Lakin Riley was wearing at the time she was murdered. The significance is that this Garmin watch is a smart watch that actually it tells your heart rate. It tells the number of feet you've gone. It marks your movement using GPS data where they can tell where you are at any given moment. It can tell where you've moved. And in this case, it actually documents when Lakin Riley actually comes into contact with her killer. It actually documents how long that takes. And again, it actually documents the 64 feet that her killer drags her away.

Starting point is 00:17:46 All of that is documented. The most important thing, though, it documents at 928 a.m. Everything stops. Heart rate, everything stops and her body never moves again. That's all from the Garmin watch, Nancy. How can that be attacked at trial? I mean, Daryl, if you want to win a case, you prepare your own case, then you figure out somehow you use that noodle and you figure out what they're going to claim.

Starting point is 00:18:13 They're going to claim this proves nothing. So how can I attack that defense in this case? You and I disagree, Nancy. There are times in cases such as the one we're talking about, when the evidence is so overwhelming, you're looking for mitigation. You're looking for a way to show that your client is not as bad as the crime that he committed. That's what you're looking for. You're looking to make him look better. You're looking to make him act better. You're not going to make the evidence go away because... Good luck on that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Starting point is 00:18:57 Joining me right now is Scott Eicher. He is a founding member of the FBI's Cellular Analysis Survey Team, CAST. Historical cellular analysis expert, former FBI agent, 22 years, former cop, former homicide. Whoa, it just goes on and on. You can find him at PCAexperts.com. Scott, thank you for being with us. There's a lot of digital data in this case. Okay. I want you to explain to me why a Garmin and other similar watches are basically infallible. Now, somebody like Daryl Cohen can take that raw evidence and argue, hey, she was doing her disco dance class that morning. They can say all sorts of things,

Starting point is 00:19:51 but the evidence itself cannot be disputed. Why? What is it? How does it work? Does it hook up to a satellite in the sky? Tell me. I tell you, Nancy, some of these technologies that are out there these days is fantastic for criminal investigations. We use this data all the time when we're dealing with trying to find victims, trying to find missing people. We use it to try to find fugitives. It's great data, especially this type of, you know, fitness devices, wearable fitness devices, either a smartwatch or a Garmin. They record so much data along with the phone itself. I watched the testimony yesterday regarding the Fitbit and, you know, the speed and then all of a sudden stop and then the heart rate. This data is fantastic, especially when you add it to the GPS data that was from the

Starting point is 00:20:46 Garmin and from the phone itself, her phone with the 911 call and all that stuff. And the triangulation or timing advance information that they provided in testimony yesterday showed that the Garmin, the defendant's phone overlapping right in the same area is great evidence. And it's so amazing that we can get that data and constantly use it in these type of cases. Could you explain exactly how it works and why it's so difficult for the defense to attack it? Again, they can, as Daryl will tell you, attack the interpretation. What does it mean? It's pretty hard to attack the fact that at 928, according to her Garmin watch, her heart stopped beating. It's pretty hard to attack that. But that said, they could attack

Starting point is 00:21:40 the scenario leading up to it. But why is the data itself so infallible? How do we know we can rely on it? That type of data is really not subject to, you know, interpretation. It's actually coming from a device. It's not a person's opinion. It's not, you know, video that might be a little sketchy, hard to see. This is actual data from a device that is impartial. That data gives us tons of information.

Starting point is 00:22:12 The time of death, amazing. We saw that Garmin device even register when the officer was there trying to do CPR on her after he found her. All that information was recorded by that device. Oh, could you explain that, please? Would you explain that, Scott? I sure can. I was looking at a box of testimony yesterday, and the officer was looking at a chart about her heart rate,

Starting point is 00:22:39 and it had stopped. And then it started again a little bit later in the graph. And what that was, according to the person that was testimony and was the officer that found her, he started doing CPR on her. And that actually kind of registered on her garment that her heart was kind of beating, but it was actually the CPR that was being registered on her government watch. Guys with me, Scott Eicher, renowned expert, former FBI cellular analysis survey team, cellular cell phone. That's what we're talking about, cell data. What about this, Scott? I just want to make sure, and I don't want to give the defense any ideas, but is there a way that the timing on the

Starting point is 00:23:27 watch could be wrong? For instance, the one I've got is still giving me, um, regular time, night, daylight savings. You know, I don't know how to fix it. So I just calculate that in. Is there a way? Ha ha. Okay. But what I'm getting at is, is there a way the defense could attack something about the data? For instance, the timing to therefore give him an alibi somewhere else. If they could attack that Garmin timing. Any way this thing can be attacked. It's hard to do, but I do understand that timing issue. The timing issue often comes up in different cases. One is you might have a time on a video that's a little bit off than a time on a phone, which might be a little bit off of a time on a Garmin watch.

Starting point is 00:24:30 You can take that into effect, and you should know that before you're getting up and testifying or putting on the prosecution, that there are going to be some time discrepancies, maybe a couple of minutes, maybe a full hour, because a watch is not, you know, at standard or, you know, daylight savings time. So that should be planned for and you should be able to overcome that. Exactly. Scott, and we saw this come up in the Delphi double murders trial when the cell data of one of the little victims looked as if, according to the defense, that an earphone had been plugged into it to the phone after the state said the victims were murdered. Okay. See the problem there?

Starting point is 00:25:12 Big problem. But then it was later explained on cross examination through a simple Google search that your data will make that presentation if it gets water or dirt in it. it shows the same thing that maybe something's plugged in. what it is is water and dirt has seeped into that crevice. so you're right. the expert must be prepared for all eventualities such as can this Garmin data be attacked on cross? And if so, how? And be ready to shoot it down.

Starting point is 00:25:51 And there is a way to shoot it down, correct? Agreed. There's always arguments that you can make against the data. If you've got one attack, bring that up in the initial testimony so you don't have the defense pull that out as a surprise. You should bring that up in the initial testimony so you don't have the defense pull that out as a surprise. You should bring that up first. And then if he has additional questions during the cross, you answer them again. And then you have your prosecutor come back and touch that one more time.

Starting point is 00:26:19 So it's clear to the jury or the judge in this case that how that data is explained. Sergeant Kenneth Maxwell performs life-saving measures on Lake and Riley, even though he reports there's no pulse and she's already stiff. Maxwell tells an officer arriving on the scene and taking over CPR, it appears Lake and Riley has blunt force trauma to her head. One of Lake and Riley's roommates concerned when Riley wasn't back from her run uses the Find My iPhone app and sees Riley on her normal jogging route. But at 1045 a.m., the location hadn't changed.

Starting point is 00:26:51 So two of Riley's roommates went on the trail looking for her. They find what they think is one of Riley's AirPods and don't find Lake and so they return home and call UGA police at 1205 p.m. UGA Sergeant Kenneth Maxwell responds to the call and it takes him 21 minutes to find Lakin Riley. He describes finding Riley's partially nude body. Lakin's family had to get up and leave the courtroom as testimony poured from the witness stand today about the condition of her body, how her clothes were all pulled up and jerked around, showing her body parts. She was covered in mulch and dirt and left there like that, dead, her face bashed in and disfigured.

Starting point is 00:27:36 Joining me at the courthouse, CrimeOnline.com's investigative reporter, Dave Mack. I'm especially interested in a jailhouse call that Ibarra made to his wife, I believe, Lila Franco. Tell me the crux of that phone call, Dave Mack. It was really about how could you possibly be there and not do anything? Apparently, you know, this is all translated, but all jailhouse calls are recorded. We all know that. But he says, I was there, but I didn't do it. And she's like, but wait a minute, you were there, you didn't do it. How do you see somebody that is dead and you don't call 911? Oh, Daryl Cohen. How does a defense attorney attack that? Daryl Cohen joining me, high profile defense lawyer in the Georgia jurisdiction who has practiced in this courthouse many, many times. What do you do

Starting point is 00:28:35 with that? His own wife is saying, well, wait, wait, you're there and you see her dying and you do nothing? His own wife is up to here with him. What do you do with that? The answer is, in my view, you leave it alone because nothing he can say is going to make it better. And he's not going to get on the stand. So what you do is you leave it alone from the testimony. No questions, Your Honor. And then you argue it on the last time that you have to argue in front of the court.

Starting point is 00:29:12 And you say he did not admit to doing it. That's what you've got, Nancy. You've got to deal with what you have and hear the evidence. You know what, Daryl Cohen? Herein lies the rub, the evidence is overwhelming. Well, you know what, Daryl Cohen? Herein lies the rub, the conundrum. If they had chosen a jury trial, there could have been an argument, and I believe that there was, to keep this out of evidence under the husband and wife marital privilege. Here's the problem with a bench trial. When the judge is making all the decisions and acting as the jury, he, she hears all of the evidence that could get suppressed.

Starting point is 00:29:54 So how are you going to put that out of your mind? This had a chance at being suppressed under husband, wife, marital privilege, right? But the judge heard that, and even if it had been suppressed, he's already heard it. It's too late. It doesn't matter, Nancy. There's so much evidence, piece by piece by piece, that the only thing the defense has is to show he's not as horrible as the crime that he's accused and will likely be convicted of doing. That's what you've got. You don't have a choice.

Starting point is 00:30:23 This is not a win-loss. This is not a guilty versus not guilty. This is a guilty that's going to have. Period. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Karen Stark is joining me, renowned psychologist, joining us out of the Manhattan jurisdiction, TV radio trauma expert. You can find her at karenstark.com. Karen with a C, if you are looking for her. Karen Stark, this wife, you know, the reason that this was not suppressed is because it was made on a jailhouse call. And Karen, you and I have talked about this many, many times. Let's just say you and your lawyer, okay, first of all, let's pretend Karen Stark committed a murder and you're with your defense attorney and you're

Starting point is 00:31:16 talking about your case. That's privileged unless you're doing it at a cocktail party and people are listening. You quote, waive the privilege. You can no longer assert attorney client privilege because other people could hear you. That's on you. So in this case, his husband, wife conversation he had with the wife, her name is Leilung Franco. The conversation he has with her is in an open venue on a recorded transmission from the jail. That is how the state defeated the defense argument. Okay. That said, idiot, I can only say it again. He calls his wife and places it Scott Peterson all over again. He places himself at the scene of the crime with the dead body. And his wife is like, I can't believe that you stood there

Starting point is 00:32:10 and watched this girl die and did nothing. But Nancy, I mean, clearly he is not a rocket scientist in this because we know that those phone calls are being taped and can be heard. But this guy has no emotions. It's called emotional blunting. The whole idea that his eyes are dead, that he removes himself from the consequences and circumstances of what happened. He actually can turn it all off. Looks like one more trauma to the head or shirts have been removed above her breast. You are hearing Sergeant Kenneth Maxwell with the UGA Police Department upon the discovery of Lake and Riley's body.

Starting point is 00:32:52 Cheryl McCollum, her injuries were so severe that her face was disfigured. She was beaten with a rock until she was dead. Nancy, you and I have always said the victim's body tells a story from head to toe, but so does Jose Abarez. And let me tell you what his body tells me. His wrist, his knuckles, his elbow, his arm, his throat, his neck, his back. It tells me Lakin Riley fought him, not just for 18 minutes, but she fought him for her life. And I think that is going to resonate with not just the judge and not just the community, but the entire United States. Joining me now is a very special guest. It's Dr. Kendall Crowns,

Starting point is 00:33:46 renowned medical examiner, chief medical examiner in Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth, esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, and has conducted thousands of autopsies of all genre, be they accident, suicide, natural causes, and of course, murder. Dr. Crowns, thank you for being with us. Could you describe the injuries to Laken Riley? So she had blunt force injuries of her head that deformed her facial skeleton. So with the murder weapon being a rock, it's a hard, kind of oddly shaped object that was repeatedly bashed into her head until her skull fractures, exposing her brain and killing her. She would have lacerations and abrasions associated with that. And then she's described

Starting point is 00:34:41 as having other injuries on her chest and abdomen that are linear. That could be from her clothing being violently pulled or another object being used to hit her with as well. But usually these blunt force object injury, homicides are very primitive and very traumatic because it takes multiple strikes to kill a person with the object. What is a depressed skull fracture? Because she had that on the side of her head, Dr. Kendall Crown. So depressed skull fracture is your cranium has kind of a dome shape. And when it's hit in, it pushes in. So that's what a depressed skull

Starting point is 00:35:17 fracture is, is a pushed in skull fracture. Depressed skull fracture on left side of head. Eight other lacerations to the left side of her head, which literally look like holes. H-O-L-E-S, holes. What does that mean, Dr. Crown? You look at that rock, it has kind of a pointed end. It's almost like it could be punched into her head, punching out these lacerations or making the holes in the side of her head as well. All the blood on the rock as well as she's just being hit repeatedly with this rock, ripping her head open, fracturing her skull, exposing her brain. I am particularly interested in the fact that she had hemorrhaging in the petechia in her eyes, which is usually indicative of a strangulation

Starting point is 00:36:05 or asphyxiation of some sort. How is that possible with blunt force trauma to the head? So it's possible that she was strangled as well as beaten because the petechial hemorrhages are going to be from more likely than not being strangled. That's how he possibly gets her to the ground. Sometimes with these cases, they strangle them initially thinking that they've killed them. They're going to rape them. And then the person wakes back up because they didn't strangle them long enough. And then they switch up to beating them with the available blunt object at the scene, which happened to be a rock in this one. Dr. Kendall Crowns, you have guided me through many murders where some type of a blunt object was used from a baseball bat to a wrench, as in the case of Dr. Teresa

Starting point is 00:36:55 Seavers, or just very often we can actually look at the injury in the brain, in the skull, and can match that injury back to the weapon. You know, think of a wrench or think of a hammer or think, which was in Sievers, a claw hammer, but in this case, a rock. Due to the gross formation of a rock as opposed to a cylindrical weapon like a baseball bat. Can you match an object like a rock up to the deformity in the head, the disfiguration of the skull? I mean, you could bring it up next to the depressed skull fracture and get kind of a size comparison, but unlike the other objects you're describing, it won't leave a pattern injury like a hammer or a claw, a wrench would leave. A rock is just kind of more of this amorphous odd shape. So you can't get a good pattern match on a rock.

Starting point is 00:37:58 Joining us at the courthouse, sitting through all of the evidence, Dave Mack from CrimeOnline.com, he's an investigative reporter. Describe to me, Dave Mack, the injuries on Ibarra, the suspect in this case. Actually, you know what? There are scratching, the ones that stick out to me are the scratch marks that are clear on him from the very beginning. Because, you know, we know that Lake and Riley put up a fight. We know that from her garment watch we know everything see he's showing there on his arms he's showing these marks all over his body and there are marks from lake and riley as she is fighting for everything she's got and he just again how can this dead-eyed man sit in court knowing all of this is going on you're

Starting point is 00:38:41 seeing the pictures on screen he's scratched all over the place, Nancy. To Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, if you could dummy down for me just one moment. Dr. Crowns, how is the DNA under her fingernails preserved? So when the individual scratched the person that's killing them, the skin gets ripped off the person they scratch and it builds up underneath the fingernails itself. So you can find that debris on the examination by doing fingernail scrapings at the time of autopsy, usually using this wooden kind of spatula stick, but that it's usually found quite readily when they've scratched an individual multiple times. The victim's hands are preserved at the scene with paper bags placed over the hands and then rubber bands placed at the wrist to secure the bags. Paper is used over plastic so there is no transfer to Cheryl McCollum. Amazing and not in a good way that Ibarra slept, quote, like a baby the night after Lakin was murdered, the night she was murdered.

Starting point is 00:39:58 How do we know that, Cheryl McCollum? Law enforcement had body cam on when they went to the apartment. After two subjects come out, they see Jose Ibarra in the bed through the front door. They bang on the side of the door. They holler for him to wake up, wake up, wake up. It takes a minute for him to, you know, shake it off and wake up and get up out of the bed and put his slides on to come outside. And that's when we see him talking with his brother and his other roommate and he starts to laugh. He starts to giggle after Sleeping Beauty is finally awoken.

Starting point is 00:40:42 Sleeps like a baby according to prosecutors thinking Lakin Riley's body is still out there. We wait as justice unfolds. I want to thank all of our guests for being with us and wading through this evidence and sparring with me regarding how evidence could be tested and disproven. But especially to you. Justice is unfolding right now in a court of law.

Starting point is 00:41:17 And we are there and you are with us. Thank you. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart podcast.

Your Ad Here

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DEAD EYES: LAKEN RILEY MURDER SUSPECT BLANK STARES AT BODY VIDEO, "SLEPT LIKE BABY" AFTER MURDER

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.