Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DEAD ON VACATION: Beautiful red-head poet vanishes from cruise - UNSOLVED

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

40-year-old red-haired poet and investment banker Merrian Carver plans a cruise. She doesn't tell her family or her daughter. The teen is visiting with Dad in England for the Summer. Carver boards a Royal Caribbean’s Celebrity cruise ships for a seven-day excursion from Seattle, Washington to Alaska. After confirming plans to dine in her room for a second night, Carver disappears. Her conversation with the steward is the last time Merrian is seen alive.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Michael A. Winkleman - Maritime Attorney, Lipcon, Margulies & Winkleman, Expert on Maritime and Cruise Ship Law, www.lipcon.com, Twitter: @cruiseshiplaw  Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com  Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org  J.H. Moncrieff - Suspense and Horror Author, "Dragonfly Summer; City of Ghosts", Expert: "Cruise Ship Killers" True Crime Documentary Series, www.jhmoncrieff.com, Instagram: @jh_moncrieff, Twitter: @JH_Moncrieff Jamie Barnett - President, International Cruise Victims (ICV), www.internationalcruisevictims.org Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Summer is upon us and many people turn their thoughts to vacation, specifically cruises. But before you answer that port of call, I want you to take a listen to this. It is a story, a cautionary tale of Marion Carver, gorgeous young mom of a little girl, goes for a getaway aboard an Alaskan Royal Caribbean cruise on the Mercury, and she's never seen alive again. First of all, take a listen to our friends at Crime Watch Daily. Marion Carver was a former investment banker from Cambridge, Massachusetts. She was divorced and her 13-year-old daughter was spending the summer with her ex-husband in England when she decided to take a cruise to Alaska. Marion was a serious person. In her short lifetime she was very

successful. Her parents didn't even know she was on a cruise that fateful August in 2004 until they got a frantic call from Marion's daughter who hadn't heard from her in a week. When they couldn't reach her, they filed a missing persons report in Cambridge, Massachusetts, where she lived. The Cambridge police located a credit card transaction, which showed the airplane ticket going to Seattle, the cruise ticket, and the return flight. Marion never made the flight home. Clearly a last minute decision to jump on this gorgeous cruise line with Royal Caribbean

and take off. Her daughter spending the summer with dad in England. So why not? But she's never seen again with me. An all-star panel to make sense of what we know about mom, Marion Carver's disappearance. Michael Winkleman, maritime lawyer.

And he is a practicing lawyer at Lipkin, Margulis, and Winkleman. A real expert, not only on maritime law, but cruise ship law. And you can find him at Lipkin.com and on Twitter at CruiseShipLaw. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist joining us out of Manhattan, and you can find her at KarenStark.com. That's Karen with a C. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, forensics expert, and you can find her at ColdCaseCrimes.org. J.H. Moncrief, true crime documentarian of cruise ship killers, also author of Dragonfly Summer. She's especially familiar with this case. Jamie Barnett joining us.

Jamie, the president of International Cruise Victims, ICV, at InternationalCruiseVictims.org. Straight to you, J.H. Moncrief. It's my understanding that her 13-year-old daughter, while at her dad's home, had been calling mom and speaking to her practically every day. So when she doesn't hear from mom for a week, that really is what sounded the alarm. Yeah, and unfortunately, because the cruise ship didn't alert the family, they didn't even have any idea that they'd gone on a cruise. She hadn't told her daughter or her father. So they really had no idea until her father reported her missing,

and they started going through the credit card statements. That's how they found out that she'd been on a cruise. Otherwise, they never would have known. And Karen Starr, she probably thought of it as a lark because she didn't have the daughter to take care of. The daughter was away with dad in England. And she is a beautiful, redheaded poet and investment banker. That's quite the dichotomy. But she suddenly was free. And she, I think on a lark, decided to go on this cruise. So didn't tell anybody.

And it seemed like she had a history of doing that, Nancy, that it wasn't the first time that she would just go off and spend some time. It was something that she liked to do. And understandable with her daughter being away, she'd write her so she wanted some time to herself. You know what's interesting? You know, Karen, ever since I've had the twins, I don't want any time to myself. I really want to be with them. But there are times when we are forced apart, when they go for judged for her decision to go solo on a cruise. When you said this is something she had done before, it almost sounds like it's a bad thing.

And I don't like the way that it's been made to sound like she goes on a cruise without telling anybody. I mean, as far as I know, women still have the right to vote and we can move about freely, but somehow women are, I don't know, somehow scorned when they decide to go on a girl's trip or they go off on their own. Have you noticed it's the same thing when women joggers are attacked? Oh, she was jogging in a jogging bra or she had on shorts. Of course she did. She's out in the elements in the sun running. I just feel that women get judged no matter what they do.

Well, there's no doubt that women get judged. We know that. We know that all the time because we hear about how people dress. But I mean, have you ever heard of a guy, Karen Stark, going, oh, he went on a trip by himself? Well, that's, and the reason I brought it up is because this is a very independent woman, and it seems as though she did do this, and it was something that she liked to do, to be able to spend time. Not all mothers are with their children 24-7. She's divorced, And her daughter was with her ex in England. So perfect opportunity for her to just take some time and go off. You know what?

I don't accept it. I don't like it, Cheryl McCollum, but I accept it. And as a matter of fact, I recognize it and talk about it in depth in Don't Be a Victim when it comes to all of the travel, whether you're going on a cruise, an RV, you're camping, you're going out of the country, you're in a hotel. Women are victimized more than men. Do I like it?

No. Is it true? Yes. So this is something we have to think about. You have a whole chapter on it, Nancy. And I'll tell you what. A big one. What she actually did was smart, if you think about it from a safety standpoint.

She was not going to have to check in and out of seedy motels. She was not going to have to travel alone by car or plane. She was not going to have to go in and out of restaurants or bars alone. She was in one place with one steward. You know, she thought probably she was doing the safest, most responsible thing to travel solo. You know, you're right, Cheryl McCollum. And I mean, maybe we need to shrink away on this, weigh in on this, but let me go to Maritime Lawyer. He's a cruise ship law expert. And maritime law is a whole nother animal it's like if you want to have open heart surgery you don't go to a podiatrist a foot doctor same thing here maritime

law like criminal law or contracts it's its own entity it It's very, very complex. But Michael Winkleman joining me, maritime lawyer, I think that when people get on a cruise ship, they feel safer than when they, let's just say, go to another country or another city they've never been to, and they're walking up and down the streets. You're kind of lulled into a sense of complacency on a cruise ship. Have you noticed that about cruise ship victims? All the time, Nancy. People have this bizarre false sense of security. They think they're in this safe bubble on a cruise ship, when in reality, there's a lot of factors that really make it the opposite. The tremendous over-service of alcohol that people indulge in, I think rightly

so because they don't have to drive anywhere. But I think one of the biggest parts of it, Nancy, is that there's no true independent law enforcement there. There's just hired private security guards that are basically, you know, shields for the company. So if and when something bad happens, you have this terrible situation where there's going to be no real independent law enforcement investigating or helping you. If you're on the high seas, it could be days. So I think because of that, there's a real unique essence to cruising that when people let their guard down, they're really putting themselves in danger. And that's why one of the things I always say is, hey, don't leave your common sense at the ports.

Keep an eye on yourself. Keep an eye on your kids. Keep yourself in safe situation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened to this gorgeous young redhead, this mom of a little girl spending the summer with dad in England, Marion Carver. And you just heard Michael Winkleman, maritime lawyer, cruise ship specialist, say something really interesting. And all of us, one, two, three, four, all five of us have discussed before. Guys, you know, on sleuthing mysteries on TV or movies, very often you'll see a murder staged on the high seas.

Why? Because just like Winkleman just said, there's not any real police. You have a cruise ship employee. And I'm not knocking the cruise ships because I love Disney cruises. And I've taken my children on several of them and we've loved it. But there's a reason those mysteries are set that way. It's art imitating life because J.H. Moncrief, the documentarian of cruise ship killers, there is no police. There is no medical examiner. They're not on the high season. You may be days away from anchoring somewhere. Yeah, Nancy, I've actually seen it referred to as the wild west

of the sea because there is no law like we'd expect. Whatever flag the cruise ship is sailing under, those are the laws they're governed by, whether it's Granada or some obscure country that the people going on the cruise ship might not even have heard of. So the laws are very different. Before these new, I believe Ken Carver was able to pass a new bill or help pass a new bill. But before that, they didn't even have to alert the FBI if a crime had happened on American waters. Wow. Yeah. Is that true, Jamie Barnett, President, ICV,

International Cruise Victims? That is true. It absolutely is. And that was a wonderful thing that that law passed in 2010, Cruise Vessel Safety and Security Act, was the first of its kind that really was able to improve security and safety for passengers on cruise ships. It was something that he was devoted to and dedicated to, and his organization carries on that work even now, still trying to improve on what we have. So what happened to this beautiful redhead mom of one, a poet and investment banker, Marion Carver? Take a listen to our friend Matt Duran, CWD. The cruise line confirmed she was on the ship, but they didn't notify family or contact law enforcement when she went missing. Marion would have vanished in thin air if we'd waited for the cruise lines to contact us they'd known from the beginning

that marion was missing and yet stonewallis hadn't contacted the fbi until a week after we'd finally finally contacted them the carvers searched for 10 months hunting down clues even hiring international investigators and attorneys they spent 75000 trying to find out what happened to their daughter. The first question we asked when we realized Marion was not on that ship was their video. And they kept saying they couldn't find her on the tape. First they said there was no tape. They'd erased it. Then all the tape. First they said there was no tape. They'd erased it. Then all the tape was broke. The carvers never received any security tapes, just one blurry shot of Marion boarding the ship.

Well I gotta tell you, when we've gone on Disney cruises, there are video cameras everywhere. I noticed it when Lucy and I were going on a walk all the way around. They have almost like a jogging path all the way around one of the decks. But at a certain point on either end, you're enclosed at the front and the back of the ship. I noticed that it was covered with not only emergency phones, but video cameras. That's not all. How can we figure out her movements before she disappeared? Listen to our friends at CrimeOnline.com. An investigation showed that Carver never used her CPAS, that is an onboard credit card, which also serves as identification. She never bought a drink on board and is not recorded as having left the ship on any of its stops.

The ship does not keep records of passengers getting off at the final destination. She disappeared somewhere on that ship and her body has never been found. Either it was taken off that ship, or thrown overboard. Joining me, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute at coldcasecrimes.org. So what does that tell you, that her CPAS was never used? You know, on the cruises I've taken the twins on, they give you a bracelet that you're supposed to wear all the time like a little plastic watch looking thing and you just hold

that up as id and i i guess that's what they're talking about except in a card form right so what she would use that card for is if she wanted to pay for something extra that was not included so if she wanted an alcoholic beverage or she wanted an excursion. So what that tells us is she didn't make a plan to do something once they got to Ketchikan or Sinka. She didn't go to, you know, ride with the sled dogs or, you know, look at the, you know, some of the activities that they had on land, so to speak. They have no record of her leaving that ship at all or reentering. You know, I'm thinking about her being a poet, Cheryl McCollum, and I may be projecting, but I have a little niece that is a poet,

and she's published. She's wonderful. And she will go on, I think they call them fellowships, and they take you out of your environment where you live. So it's like a sabbatical, I guess, for professors. It rejuvenates your creativity. You're out of your rut, so to speak, and it ignites your writing. So I'm just wondering if that's the reason she didn't plan a trip to go dog sledding or to see a glacier.

Because she was focusing on a getaway where she could look out her window and see the ocean and work on her poetry. I think that's entirely possible. Plus, Cheryl, this was a spur of the moment decision. She didn't on her poetry. I think that's entirely possible. Plus Cheryl, this was a spur of the moment decision. She didn't have her daughter. She could take time off. She took off on this cruise. She didn't even talk to anybody about it. It was a last minute purchase on her credit card. She barely packed a thing and took off. So given that scenario, Cheryl, I'm not surprised she didn't plan to, you know, go, uh do you say, ziplining somewhere on a shore excursion. puffins you can see all of these incredible animals eagles seals it seems like she would have still gone in and out of her room ad nauseum to experience just things on board

well you're right about that and i'm wondering about that c-pass does it open and shut your door as well correct or is it just for things that you have to buy? But you would have a record of her entering her room because it's still going to be electronic. She never left that. Yeah, you're right. Guys, take a listen. I find this very, very telling. This is Matt Duran at Crime Watch Daily. Private investigators eventually learned the last activity on her shipboard account was for room service the second night of the cruise. The steward reported Marion missing two days into the cruise and, after all passengers had left the ship, he was told to pack up Marion's belongings and take her handbag and put it in storage. It would have been so easy for the cruise lines to say, hey, here's the steward, talk

to him. They don't want to do that. They think he'll go away. Marion's father asked Royal Caribbean for her belongings to be returned but never got those either. We finally got emails saying that they took her items that were in the room and disposed of them.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just joining us, we're talking about the highly unusual disappearance of Marion Carver, a young American mom who goes on a cruise solo and is never seen alive again. Are you telling me that the steward, a steward is the guy or woman that comes to your room on and off all day and all night to check on your room, to see if you need anything, to kind of not just clean your room up, but take care of you and your family. If you want to arrange something on land, or if you want a special meal or you want to make a reservation. So the steward reported she had not been in a room since day two. Yeah. That's one of the sad things about this case, Nancy. One of the many sad things is the steward actually seemed to really care about her. He reported her missing every single day from the time he noticed she hadn't been in a room and hadn't slept there and finally was just told by a

supervisor to shut up and do his job. So he actually really tried, the steward actually really tried to get help and raise an alert and he would just rebuff. You know, isn't it true to Cheryl McCollum that the most critical hours after someone is kidnapped are the very first hours where this steward kept saying something's wrong. She hasn't come back to her room. She's not in here. She's not using her key card. Why are those first hours so critical, Cheryl? It's the first three.

There's no doubt. If somebody is going to be murdered, those first three hours are the most critical once someone goes missing. Here, what is so devastating to me is not just for evidentiary value, but for what her family would have gathered just because it belonged to her. You think about what's in your pocketbook. You've got pictures. You've got keys. You've got maybe a work ID. All of these things are going to become sentimental. Like with your dad's ID from the railroad, you cherish those things. So for somebody to take it and just discard it, that to me is sickening for that family. Take a listen to our friends at primetime Lost at Sea.

He made this videotape on the ship, demonstrating the route from Marion's room to the nearest deck where she could have gone overboard. My report became, you know, kind of empty of content, but full of questions, questions as to why I couldn't interview the security manager for the camera system. Question after question, why? To Michael A. Winkleman, maritime lawyer, cruise ship law specialist, you're hearing the voice of a private investigator. The family has to really deplete their life savings to hire an investigator to try to find out what happened. And instead of finding anything, he gets stonewalled. Well, I think unfortunately,

that's a relatively commonplace occurrence. And I think that has to do with the fact that this happened on a cruise ship. If this happened in a hotel or this happened on land, you would have FBI, law enforcement, local, regional, et cetera, that would be on the scene. But because you had this happens on a cruise ship, you just can't get on there without them giving you access. So there's this gigantic information imbalance between what the cruise line knows and what the cruise line has versus what the general public knows. Now that's something I deal with on a daily basis. Our law firm's been doing it for 50 years. I've been doing it for 15 years. So we're very well, you know, we know what to do in order to get the information. What happened to Marion happened

about almost 20 years ago. So fortunately things have changed. One of the big things is the fact that the video cameras are everywhere, Nancy. In all the cases that I have, probably about 75% of them have video footage of a fall, an assault, things of that nature. So that really helps you put together the pieces better. But the fact that you have international crew members that are the crew members, it is often very hard to find them. For years, you would hear all these stories about if a crew member was accused of a rape or a crime or a sexual assault before they were even turned over to the FBI, they were sent back home to the Philippines or to India or to Indonesia and to never be found again. And you have an element in this story. So this is one of the big issues with one of the uniquenesses of maritime law, because you have so much of an

international nature to it that definitely makes solving unsolved mysteries like Marion's that much harder. Which is still unsolved too. Jamie Barnett, president of International Cruise Victims, ICV, and you can find her at internationalcruisevictims.org. That doesn't seem right. In the U.S., and typically across the world, you have a police force and you don't have to pay them to investigate what happened to your loved one. They're paid by taxes. Here, this family had to run through their life savings for a private investigator to try to find out what happened to Marion. That's not right.

No, it is not. And there's such murky jurisdictional circumstances at sea with, you know, who's in charge of the investigation? You know, let's say if you're an American and it's the FBI, the FBI is not going to get on that ship typically until it comes back to the United States. Meanwhile, you know, all kinds of evidence is washed away, covered up, trampled over, what have you. So then when the FBI gets on the ship, they go, hey, we don't have enough evidence to convict anybody or to open a case. And it's just gone. Not at all like it would be on land. That's one of the things that is most alarming about a crime at sea.

And Karen Stark, psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan, it puts the family in even more devastation. The little girl loses her mother. The parents lose their daughter. And in the midst of all this mourning, they're going to have to run through everything they have saved for a lifetime trying to find out, is she still alive? Where is she and what happened? And think about this little girl, Nancy. She will never have an answer about what happened to her mom and the things that she could imagine about, did she leave me?

Did she love me? And no kind of keepsake. As Cheryl said, you have stuff from your dad. I have stuff from my dad. And she's not going to be able to have anything that reminds her of her mother, which is something that most of us really treasure. Just thinking about what you said, of course, I'm just a JD, not an MD, not a shrink. but never knowing what happened to your mother, never knowing is she dead or is she alive? Did she just leave and leave me and leave our family? And maybe she's got a whole new life in some exotic country. Those are the kind of thoughts

this little girl may be having. I, on the other hand, am having thoughts like, did they just not preserve the evidence, or did they actually cover up evidence? Take a listen to our friends at ABC's Primetime. It seemed like kind of a rather basic thing. If you put 2,000 people on a ship, you ought to know if 2,000 people got off the ship. They didn't know that. They couldn't tell us that. Carver became more alarmed when they casually explained that Marion stopped using her room after the second night and that her belongings remained in her cabin after everyone else got off the ship. They got rid of most of her stuff. Her gold wrist guards, all of her clothes were gone,

vanished. In effect, Marion vanished from the earth. Royal Caribbean gave Marion's clothes to charity and worst of all, told no one she was unaccounted for. Not the police, not the family. She was gone. And the purse that had her name, social security number and everything, they just put it in storage, did nothing. That is amazing to me

that all of her belongings would be given to charity and no one was ever notified not the family not the police crime stories with nancy grace for those of you just joining us Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just joining us, you're hearing Miriam Carver's dad say, that doesn't make sense. You know, 2,000 people got on the ship. Shouldn't you make sure that 2,000 people get off the ship? I mean, is this true?

To J.H. Moncrief, documentarian of cruise ship killers and author of Dragonfly Summer City of Ghosts. J.H., there's no duty for the cruise line to alert family that their family member never made it off the cruise ship? There wasn't, definitely, when Marion disappeared. And I'm also, it's not just about law, it's also about morals, I'm also it's not just about law it's also about morals I'm wondering about like the supervisor of the steward that gave him trouble for always raising this apparently he asked for some of the belongings to be brought to his room fairly early and put in a storage locker and when he was fired he just disappeared with them so there was a manila envelope which we

don't know what was in it probably her writing writing, I'm guessing, and some money that she had that was never recovered. So even just from a moral standpoint, how can you live with yourself, knowing that you've at least participated in some sort of cover up? So at this point, Cheryl McCollum, director and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, how do you go about investigating a crime when all the evidence has been lost or given to charity? And possibly the perpetrator moved to another ship or another country. This is so mind boggling to even try to start, you know, from this time of, you know, when this happened. But here's the deal. You have got a crew line that already lied to you, as for that.

The minute they told you that the tape taped over itself after three days and you find out, no, in fact, it's a month. Well, now you have to ask yourself are they part of this is this a bigger cover-up are they an accessory after the fact did somebody do something to her because you look at little things like she bought a round-trip ticket why would you do that if you weren't going back home there you know she had future. She was doing things because she enjoyed them, not because anything pointed to her ending her life. There is no evidence of that whatsoever. The only evidence is that she was planning to come home. She had a return trip. She was planning to see her daughter

continue her work as a poet and an investment banker. Now, this was on Alaskan Royal Caribbean Cruise Line. But Michael A. Winkleman, maritime lawyer and expert in cruise ship law, isn't that the same thing as celebrity? Weren't you telling me that before? I sure was, Nancy. You know, Celebrity Cruises is just a different brand within the Royal Caribbean umbrella. And that's very common in the industry. Royal Caribbean has Celebrity Ships, Royal Caribbean Ships, Regions, Seven Seas, and same with Carnival.

Carnival has like 10 brands underneath its umbrella. So that's very common in the industry for there to be one. Okay, now wait a minute. Michael Winkleman, hold on. What did you just say? Start with the umbrella. So essentially you'll have royal caribbean group which they just renamed themselves and under that umbrella there's a handful of different cruise lines you've got royal caribbean cruises which are the gigantic ships you've got celebrity

cruises which are slightly smaller ships you've got um azamara cruises which is supposed to be more of like adventure type cruises. And it's the exact same thing with Carnival Corporation. They've got Carnival. They've got Princess. They've got Holland America. They've got Seabourn. So that's nothing new in the industry.

Wow. Did you know all of those? OK, I didn't know that. So I'm learning. And what that says to me as a lawyer is there are more layers you have to go through before you finally get to the top or you finally get to the truth. And speaking of the truth, I want you to take a listen to our friends at A&E Cruise Ship Nightmare Journeys. Ken Carver is founder of ICV, International Cruise Victims, a group of people who have been directly affected by crime accidents and poor medical practices on cruise ships ken began the organization after his daughter marion

disappeared from a royal caribbean cruise to alaska under sworn deposition her cabin steward said that for five days he reported her missing. He was told to continue to make up her room. They took her belongings at the end of the cruise, and the steward said to his boss, what should we do with the items in the room? He said, just put them in a bag and put them in my locker, at which point they got rid of them. So her items were put in a bag and put in a locker and ultimately disappeared. Do I have that right, J.H. Moncrief? What more can you tell us?

Yeah, you do. Sadly, Nancy, it's really hard to fathom what was going through this person's mind when he decided to give away her belongings. Another thing we know is that she only apparently packed one dress, one pair of shoes. So she had very minimal items with her. She had no suitcases. She only had two handbags. So this is what allowed the cruise ship to say that, oh, she didn't plan to ever return because she didn't pack that much, which I find very ludicrous. It wasn't that long a cruise. She just did this spur of the moment and hadn't put a lot of planning into it, just decided the last minute to go, she wouldn't

necessarily have brought that much. I don't think that that really proves anything as to her mindset. No, I don't think that proves anything as well, J.H. As a matter of fact, Cheryl McCollum, my family laughs at me a lot because we go on trips and Lucy, my little girl, takes this huge, she's the smallest one. She weighs maybe a hundred pounds wet, soaking wet. She takes this huge bag. Then my husband takes a regular bag. John David takes a little duffel bag. I put everything I'm carrying and a backpack with my laptop on my back. That's it. That's the whole thing.

So this means nothing to me that she packed so lightly. As a matter of fact, Cheryl, take a listen to our cut 17, our friends at primetime, lost at sea. All along the way, they've been lying to us you know and leading us down a path and uh i said it's tough enough to lose a daughter let alone be dealing with a cover-up carver says these royal caribbean documents are evidence of a cover-up. This shows the company taking great pains to make sure that Domingo did not speak with anybody. In this memo, Royal Caribbean checks with 14 different employees to make sure Domingo hasn't spoken to outside sources. We showed the document to Royal Caribbean's attorney, Jeffrey Maltzman. He says it's no big deal. So Sheryl McCollum, again, Alaska and Royal

Caribbean Cruise Line denies any and all wrongdoing. But if you're listening to what the father says, Marion's father, not only was evidence lost, it was covered up. How are you going to ever put that together again? It's like Humpty Dumpty. The first first time they lied they did something wrong when they got rid of her belongings they did something wrong they knew there was going to be no connection between them and the last movement of this young lady they knew it there's there's no video except her entering the ship there's no other video of her going down the hallway, her going to the deck to observe the views, her exiting. They don't have any of that.

They don't have her stuff where maybe she wrote something down or they said she left a generous tip. I mean, she was clearly involved in talking to this steward and enjoying his company, and he knew, you know, that she didn't want to go to the cafeteria or the dining hall or whatnot. So to me, there are factors here that they not just ignored, but they purposely got rid of so that DOT could not be connected. To J.H. Moncrief, where does the case stand now? Unfortunately, there are no answers in this case. There were remains that washed up in Canada, and for a time it was

believed it might be Marion, but that's never been confirmed. So as of now, we really still have no answers about what happened to her, and I can't even imagine what this has been like for her family, what it was like for her father before he passed away imagine what this has been like for her family, what it was like for her father before he passed away, what it's been like for her daughter. It's heartbreaking. Before you leave this summer on a cruise, I implore you, go to internationalcruisevictims.org. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.