Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DEAD ON VACATION: Beloved public defender strangled at exclusive resort, body discarded in bushes.

Episode Date: June 22, 2021

Marie Kuhnla, a beloved New York public defender, goes on the vacation of a lifetime with friends and co-workers. After a day at the pool, Kuhnla goes back to her room to rest. She misses dinner, but her friends are not worried, thinking she probably just fell asleep. When she misses breakfast the next morning, Kuhnla is reported missing. Marie Kuhnla's body is found the next day. She had been strangled and left in the bushes along an access road on the exclusive resort where she was staying.Joining Nancy Grace today: Abe George - NYC Attorney, www.abegeorge.lawyer,  Kuhnla Family Attorney in Wrongful Death Lawsuit Dr. Jorey Krawczyn [KRAW-ZIN] - Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide” (July 2021) bw-institute.com Dr. Todd M. Barr, M.D. - Deputy Medical Examiner/Forensic Pathologist at Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's Office (Cleveland OH) Chris Byers - Former Police Chief Johns Creek Georgia, 25 years as Police Officer, now Private Investigator and Polygraph Examiner, www.chrisbyersinvestigationsandpolygraph.com  Sarah Wallace - Reporter, News4 New York's I-Team Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. An American mother goes on a dream vacation to Turks and Caicos at a club med and ends up dead. As everyone takes off for summer holidays, this is certainly a cautionary tale, a tale to which there have been no real answers. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It began as a week away in paradise for three hardworking Suffolk County legal aid attorneys. It was just like a bad dream. It was like it wasn't real. The pain still so fresh for Marie Kuhnle's closest friends.

A year after the Long Island wife and mother disappeared at the popular Club Med Turks and Caicos resort. A few days into the trip, Marie decided to take a break from the pool and come here to her room to take a nap. She never showed up for dinner. A dream vacation at Turks and Caicos turns to murder. How did that happen? And another thing, when you think of club med, I think high end, exclusive, fancy, gated community, got to be right on the beach. And Turks and Caicos has beautiful beaches. So how in an island paradise does a mom, an American who's on a getaway with her girlfriends from work, end up murdered? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of it all, Abe George, a high- adjunct faculty, St. Leo's, and author of Operation SOS, Practical Recommendations to Stop Officer Suicide.

Dr. Todd M. Barr, deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining us out of Cleveland. Former police chief, now 25 years under his belt as police officer. You can find him at Chris Byers Investigations and Polygraph dot com. Special guest joining us, in addition to Abe George, is Sarah Wallace, investigative reporter with NBC for 19 Emmy Awards. And you're about to find out why. Guys, you were just hearing our friends at NBC4. And now let's go to Sarah Wallace. Sarah, this woman, Marie Kuhnla, was beloved, an American mom.

And not only that, she devoted her career to helping underprivileged people that need a lawyer as a public defender. That is not an easy job at all. No, it's one of the toughest jobs. And she worked for Legal Aid in Suffolk County, which is out on Long Island. And she and her two friends and the daughter of one of those friends decided to take a dream vacation. You know, you go, Nancy, you do probably, you go with your girlfriend for a getaway. And that's what they did. And they thought that Club Med was safe.

It's known to be one of the most famous in the world. Because when you look up Club Med, have you ever looked at their advertisements online? It's a paradise. When you look up Club Med, all inclusive escapes, and they really push exclusivity, vacation, start planning now, flexibility, all the different resorts. They've got resorts all over the world. Now, the one we're talking about is the Club Med at Turks and Caicos. Tell me about that one. Well, it's known to be a beach paradise. And one of the things that I think when people do go to a Club Med is the name stands for something.

And you think it's going to be secure. And Americans flock to that location. It's one of the most popular in the world. I have actually been there previously to my investigation years ago. And it is spectacular. It's beautiful. The beaches are gorgeous. People go to have fun, and they certainly don't go thinking that something horrible is going to happen. Okay, I've got to tell you, I peeked online. Exclusive resort on an award-winning beach come discover a newly redesigned club med

turquoise i get it play on the words turks and cacos all-inclusive paradise couples and friends learn what it means to truly disconnect luxury to do it all or nothing at all making this the perfect destination action-packed or romantic getaway it goes on and on and the pictures they're stunning it doesn't even look real the the water is so turquoise and in spots completely clear you can see right down to the bottom guys we're talking about an american mom that goes on a dream vacation at Turks and Caicos Club Med and ends up not just dead but murdered. Take a listen to our friends at ABC7. Marie Kuhnla and her friends had been having a great girls getaway at Club Med in Turks and Caicos. She was having the time of her life.

She really was. She kept saying to me, this is the best vacation. Kunla's friends Kim Nohile and Helma Hermans were on the trip with Kunla and say the last time they saw Kunla was Sunday, October 14th, a few days after being at the resort. I saw her around 6.30 on Sunday and she went to lay down and take a nap. Seven o'clock the next morning I was banging on her door for a while and she wasn't answering, which is really weird. From what we know, back to you, Sarah Wallace, what was her personality? I mean, it wasn't unusual at all that she wanted to go to her room and not go to dinner with everyone.

Was she a quiet person? I think she was quiet. Her friends describe her as just being very good natured. And she had met a lot of people at the pool. It's not unnatural, you know, if you've been at the pool all day long that you go to take a nap, maybe before dinner. And maybe she just didn't want to go to dinner. And she thought she was just going to rest in her room. But the next morning, that's when her friends became alarmed because she didn't show up for breakfast. And they flagged security right then. They notified the desk that she...

Wait, now hold on. I find that really interesting. Guys, Sarah Wallace, who's joining me from NBC4 New York's iTeam, that's really interesting because in the legal business, we call that routine behavior, routine evidence. Not that it is run of the mill evidence, but it is evidence of routine or evidence of routine behavior. When this woman did not show up to breakfast and they go to her room and bam on the door and she doesn't come by knowing her so well, so intimately, her friends there at Legal Aid knew something was wrong. And I want to go out to you, Abe George, a New York City attorney who is representing the Cunla family, that is admissible in all sorts of trials, particularly we've used it in criminal trials. So they knew when she didn't answer the door and she didn't show up for breakfast, something was wrong, right? Yes, Nancy. And just the night before, one of Marie's friends, Helma, filed a complaint at

the desk at Club Med saying that there was an individual who was a problem to their group. You were just hearing our friends at NBC4 New York. Now take a listen to Kristen Thorne at ABC7 New York. Nohilly and Hermans immediately reported the Wontall resident missing, but say they didn't get much help at first from resort staff, so they went searching for Kunla themselves. It was my daughter who found the body, not the police. That was early Tuesday morning.

Kunla's body was lying in bushes on the edge of the Club Med Resort. Her friends say authorities told them Kunla had been strangled. You know, to Dr. Todd M. Barr, Deputy Medical Examiner, Forensic Pathologist, joining us out of Cleveland, thank you for being with us. When you hear strangled or asphyxiated, that sounds kind of benign. It's almost euphemistic. But when you see a violent strangling, I mean, Dr. Barr, I've seen stranglings where the victim's throat was about the size of the opening of a mason jar because the victim had been strangled so violently it's just completely unnatural so when you say you they you happen upon a victim that has been strangled dead that is a sight that you'll never forget, especially as a civilian. Absolutely.

How is it that a human neck can be strangled down to that size? Well, there's a lot of soft tissue in the neck, and there's a lot of flexibility in the neck that can be compressed. One of the things that I would like to know, I believe that it was called a manual strangulation, which is different than asphyxia by a ligature. Yeah. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sarah Wallace, investigative reporter with NBC4 New York's i-Team.

Tell me about the friend finding her. Well, they discovered her body in a clump of bushes. And we went down to Club Med because we wanted to see the location for ourselves. Because first of all, when they talked about it originally, they said her body was found near the Club Med Resort. That's what the Island Police... Who said that, Sarah? The Island Police put that out on their Facebook page, that her body had been found near the Club Med Resort.

When I spoke with her two friends, they made it very clear that no, her body was found on the property. And we went down to take a look for ourselves to see the exact location. You know, Nancy, you want to do that. You want to walk the crime scene and get a sandy dirt road that leads to the staff housing. In my mind, there is no way that Marie Kuhnla walked to that location. It's my belief that she was probably jumped there out of a car or some kind of vehicle. Her sandal was found about 100 yards down the road on another fork of the road that actually leads to the outer gate of the property.

Hold on. I want to follow up on what you're just saying, Sarah, because I find it really significant. And I want to go to Chris Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek. Sarah's right. Think about it. I don't know if this is going to be the Chris Byers, former police chief, Johns Creek. Sarah's right. Think about it. I don't know if this is going to be the same with you, Chris, but as a jogger, a female jogger, I would be careful when I was thinking clearly.

Why, with all the beautiful trails and the roads and places you could go there at Turks and Caicos Club Med, would you go up a path, a dirt path, going up to, let's just say, the maintenance facilities or the employee maintenance area? Why would you do that? I don't think that you would. Go off by yourself, sandals, not jogging, not going for a walk. And instead of going on all the routes they have for you, go up and wander around the facilities and maintenance. That doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, there's absolutely no reason for that.

You're paying the price for those beaches that we just talked about, for all of the infrastructure there at that beautiful resort. You're not going to be off on these paths. It sounds to me like she was dumped there by somebody that knew exactly where they were at. And Abe George, a high-profile lawyer joining us out of New York. Abe, this adds another layer to the murder. It's not just that somebody murdered her. It's that someone dragged her to that location and murdered her or murdered her and then disposed of her body there that adds another layer to the

murder yeah and as this was a manual strangulation and i'm sure dr barr will provide some insight as to uh as to why that's significant so dr todd m barr joining us out of Cleveland, manual strangulation. Why does that make a difference in your mind, doctor? Well, when you have a hanging or a ligature, typically you'd have a ligature marked left on the outside surface of the skin. And with a manual strangulation, if it's done from the front and the thumbs are compressing the neck from the front you typically will get a broken hyoid bone which is the bone that is at the floor of the mouth also the tracheal cartilage and the cricoid cartilage are also in that same vicinity so if there's compression coming upon the neck with the hands wrapped around the neck and the thumbs are directing that pressure, you get these typical findings in an autopsy.

So if the perp is strangling her while looking her in the eyes, like the thumbs will be over the hyoid with the fingertips in the back. If you are attacked from behind, the thumbs will be at the back, exerting pressure and the fingers on the front. And you know what I find interesting about that to psychologists, faculty at St. Leo, author Dr. Jory Crawson, is that I've referred to these and knifings as sweetheart murders. Not that there's anything sweet about them, but you are up close and intimate to your victim when you are murdering them.

He could have very well been looking her in the eyes at the time he strangled her dead, which is an entirely scary and shocking element of this crime. That type of attack is very personal. And especially if there's, you know, anger, aggression, rage, this is the perfect type of attack that these individuals use. They want to be close. They want to see the terror. They want to experience that. That drives that force even more on the choking. So, yeah, this is a very personal attack. And I find it really interesting what Sarah Wallace told us from NBC4 New York that the Island Police, I guess were told by Club Med, that her body was found near Club Med grounds, not on Club Med grounds. Why was that, Abe George? Everything that Club Med has been doing since the investigation

of this case has been trying to attenuate the murder from their property. And Nancy, this even comes down to the corporate shell game that Club Med plays in terms of the different legal entities that are set up that tourists don't know about. You assume that, hey, you're going to Club Med, you're staying at Club Med. But Club Med has generated five corporate shells just to insure themselves against civil liability. So if something happens to you, you've got nowhere to turn to. But what we're doing is slowly unfolding those shells to show that Club Med has been responsible for everything that happens on its property. Guys, take a listen to Sarah, our friend Sarah Wallace at Embassy for New York. A friend found Marie Kuhnless bruised body in a clump of bushes. The medical

examiner later determined she'd been manually strangled. She was not walking to that location. It happened either she was murdered there and dumped there or she was murdered somewhere else and dumped there. Private investigator Eddie Dowd was hired by Kuhnle's family on Long Island. They say they were stonewalled from the very beginning by Club Med and Island Police. You don't think they took it seriously? They just wanted to sweep it under the rug. It's probably the easiest way to answer that. The couple's son lives in California.

We want to know what happened and we want justice for my mom. Guys, you are hearing not only the private eye hired by the family, they had to go to that expense, but the son that is hurting about the murder of his mother. You are also hearing our friend Sarah Wallace. Sarah, you went to the location. What did you see in the spot where her body was found? And why did her friends have to find her and not the Club Med staff? Well, that's a really good question, because they notified the staff in the morning, 24 hours after she originally had been seen at the pool and 12 hours after she hadn't shown up for dinner.

They then later that afternoon notified Island police. They were told they actually had to wait until the afternoon for police to be notified. And the next morning, it was the next morning that they found her body, the friends found her body in this clump of bushes. yards away from the guest cottages, but it's a world away from where you would think anybody would walk. It just doesn't make sense that if you were going for a little rendezvous or you were going to have a drink with somebody that you wouldn't go to the beach or some other property area that was frequented by people. This was off, off, off from the main area, the main road, the main entrance. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're talking about the murder of an American mom who goes on his dream vacation with her friends

to Club Med in Turks and Caicos. So the Club Med told the friends they had to wait another 24 hours before they call police? They flagged them in the morning and they were told that they couldn't notify them until later that afternoon, which would have been 24 hours from the time that she was last seen, that she left the pool and went to her room to take a nap. Now, what's also significant, I think, is that the family

who was so frustrated and you heard them say that they believe that they've been stonewalled, they didn't get her body back for six weeks. And by that time, and you'll hear your experts talk about that, her body was so decomposed that they couldn't do another autopsy. So it was not properly stored. Do you know, Sarah Wallace, was there any evidence that she ever even made it back to her room that night? She was last seen going to the room. We don't know if she actually got there, but her friends believe that she went to the room. And when I said night,

it's really several hours before supper, correct? Correct. She left in the afternoon around a little before six, and then they had dinner, and she didn't show up for dinner. So it would be natural. Maybe you go to take a nap in your room and then you would come later. And they didn't think anything of it when she didn't show up for dinner because maybe she was just resting and she fell asleep. But by that next morning, the alarm bell started to go off. Sarah, was she found in the same clothing that they last saw her in?

She was. She was found in the same clothing. And let's go back to the sandal. The sandal that was found about 100 yards away from her body. There is no way, Nancy, that she would have walked on that sandy, dirt road. It is gravelly. It's rough on your feet. She wouldn't have just gone walking on that road. And her sandal was off somewhere else.

And she wouldn't have gone barefoot any distance from that. So that's where the attack began or evidence that she was dragged from at least that spot to where her body was found. When you say she was wearing the same outfit she had on when she was last seen by her friends leaving the pool before dinner what was the outfit she was wearing a bathing suit and then she had a cover-up over that and sandals so that tells me she never made it to her room because why think about it a wet swimsuit sandy yucky why would you go in your room and take a shower and lay down for a nap and then put back on your same wet swimsuit and cover up? I don't think she ever made it back to her room.

That's possible. I wonder if her room was in disarray, if she was attacked in the room. Maybe the perp was stealing from her. I mean, we don't know because such a shoddy investigation was done. Guys, take a listen to this. The mysterious death of an American tourist is rocking a popular resort on this upscale Caribbean island. Known for its white sandy beaches, Turks and Caicos is a favorite spot for vacationers wanting to get away from it all. But this morning, the Royal Turks and Caicos Islands Police Force has launched a murder investigation into the death of Marie Kunla. The attorney from Long Island,

New York, was staying at the Club Med Turks and Caicos when she disappeared last Monday. A day later, her body was found in some bushes near the resort. Well, they launched a murder investigation, but Sarah Wallace joining us from NBC4 New York. I bet that was like pulling a tooth. Well, I think, you know, from the very beginning, there were questions about the investigation. When we went down to Turks and Caicos, we tried to talk to the lead investigator. And we were told at that time that the investigation was still open, that it was a homicide investigation. But what we also knew at the time is that privately they had told the family that they were suspecting that it may not have been a murder.

So they were going down apparently a different path, but told us something else. What? Is that true? A George high-prof profile lawyer retained by the family joining us out of New York. They told the family, we think it might be a murder, but maybe it's not. Yes. In September of 2019, in fact, you had an investigator from Turks and Caicos. It's almost like the police academy out there that came out to New York to basically tell the family they were reinvestigating this matter because they didn't believe it was a manual strangulation. They were trying to pose a theory that maybe she fell and that's how she lost consciousness. It was ridiculous. We had a

Miami medical examiner that flew down there that I guess was hired by Turks and Caicos, the island of Turks and Caicos for any murders that went on on the island to take a look at the body. And that medical examiner found that it was manual strangulation. But apparently the Turks and Caicos police department was not happy with that. Okay, wait a minute. You know, to Dr. Todd Ian Barr, Dr. Barr is the deputy medical examiner. He's a forensic pathologist in Cleveland in the medical examiner's office. And let me tell you, no offense, Cleveland, that's a very high crime. You got a lot of murders going down there. I know because I worked in one of the murder capitals of the country, inner city Atlanta.

I mean, for years toward the end, practically all I tried were homicides. Dr. Barr, how can you have a manual strangulation? And once you've seen one, they're pretty easy to identify, according to me, who knows nothing. Okay, I'm a JD, not an MD. But there are typically finger marks, literally finger marks that are bruises on the neck. You can see the fingertips. You can see the actual fingers. You can see, as you told me earlier, where there's more pressure where the thumbs are. And it's really, you mentioned the hyoid bone. It's really obvious often when you've got a manual strangulation,

how could they say maybe she fell on her neck? That's completely ridiculous. I mean, completely ridiculous. And what I would want to know is where the bruising was that they found. And were there any defense wounds on the back of her hands? Were there scratch marks on her neck from her own fingernails trying to pull the attacker off? And did they collect DNA or trace evidence? Did they swab her neck and her hands?

And did they preserve evidence? And, you know, there's a lot of stuff that should have been done. I don't know if it was done in this case or not. And did they do a rape kit? You know, if that was part of the possibility. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Sarah Wallace, investigative reporter, NBC4 New York. Don't you just love talking to medical examiners?

They're so smart. And I could just listen to them all day long. As a matter of fact, Sarah, very often I would end or start a murder case with the medical examiner because it just pulls everything together. Things that as a lawyer or a lay person, you may not think about, but was there a rape kit? Was there, I can tell you right now, there was no DNA taken if they still think she fell on her neck. But another thing, Sarah Wallace, and correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Barr, with a asphyxiation of any type, be it smothering, ligature, manual strangulation, you will have the petechiae in your eye, those little blood vessels that you can't see, pop. Absolutely. And sometimes, I guess.

And you can actually, you can get that in the oral mucosa as well, the lining of the mouth. Really? You can get it in the epiglottis. Stop the press. What did you just say about the oral mucosa? First of all, talk regular talk, doctor. Are you talking about the veins in your mouth? If you're you can get the same petechia that can be on the surface around the eyes. It can be inside the mouth. Like if you pull your lip down, you can get petechia that can be on the surface around the eyes. It can be inside the mouth. Like if you pull your lip down, you can get petechia there. It can be where the epiglottis is in your throat that covers your airway when you're swallowing. There's a lot of stuff, even in the deepest portion of the brain, in the base of the brain, there's a place called the sphenoid sinus, and

it's lined by this mucosa. And whenever we have a ligature or a manual strangulation, we unroof that and look at that mucosa because you'll actually see petechia in that region as well. Well, you just schooled me. You take me to school right there. Sarah Wallace, I'm sure none of that was done, right? I don't know the details, and I don't think the family knows the details because they have refused to turn over any of the reports to the family. But going back to what your expert is just saying, the medical examiner did the autopsy right then and there. So he knows what he saw.

He did the analysis. What happened afterward was that they didn't preserve the body. So now to go back and try and reanalyze what the medical examiner did and question it seems kind of absurd when he was the one who saw the body initially and did an expert examination. Wow. And typically photographs are taken during an autopsy. Ah, you're right, doctor. You're absolutely right yet again. Earlier, you were hearing our friends at ABC GMA. Now, take a listen to our cut six.

This is Sarah, our friend Sarah Wallace at NBC4 New York. 24 hours later, that awful discovery and her sandal found on the main dirt road nearby. You identified the shoe? Yes. Hermans, suspicious of that male guest who had allegedly groped her, then reported him to police. He later hired an attorney. Marie's friends and family, her husband and son, believe there's been no real investigation by Island Police. First of all, you can't feel it's been handled properly.

I hate using this term, but you can't get the closure. It's like an open nerve. When we visited the Island's police station, we were told the investigation, supported by the FBI, is still open. But it's still ongoing. Yes, it is. And it's still characterized as a murder? Yes, it is. But privately, it's another story, as this video shows. The lead investigator recently met on Long Island with Marie's husband and other family representatives who recorded the conversation. I have a reason to believe Med, and they did nothing. As a matter of fact, take a listen to Sarah in our Cut 11. Michael Collins, a retired Nassau County police officer,

was at Club Med with his wife at the time of the murder. He says guests were kept completely in the dark. They didn't tell us anything. Did you see security cameras at Club Med? No security cameras. When he got home, Collins says he decided to report the suspicious behavior of a male guest, another Long Island local. I had this feeling about him that he had other secrets about him. Marie's two friends had also complained about that guest. Weeks later,

a cryptic phone message left at their office. How do you know how much drinking was involved? And you left the country after and knew exactly where to find it. The story doesn't add up. The caller's number linked to that guest in the pool. Marie's boss made a copy

of the tape. And I provided it to the FBI because at that time they were involved in tape. And I provided it to the FBI because at that time they were involved in the situation. Provided it to the FBI. You know, it kind of feels like that's just like screaming it out of the window, driving down Third Avenue. I mean, what happened? Let me circle back to Abe George, the high profile lawyer hired by Marie's family. Who is this guy, and is it true the women had complained about him already? Multiple people at the resort were complained about him, including the woman we just heard about from Sarah Helma, who was sexually assaulted by this individual on her first day at the resort.

Okay, Sarah, what do we know about this guy? His name, Frank Yakulo. Frank Yakulo. I spoke with him by phone a couple of times, and he told me, he questioned me. And originally, the first thing he said to me on the phone was, did they ever find out who did it? That was the first thing he said to me. He did tell me that he had been detained in Turks and Caicos and questioned by police for the alleged sexual assault on Helma Hermans. He stated that the bail had been posted at $10,000 and that someone he believes to be a local posted it. He doesn't

know who. And when he got back to Long Island and was questioned, he then hired an attorney. And that was the end of that. Okay. Let me understand. This guy, a former Club Med employee, not named by police, is Frank Yaculo. And he had already been detained for sex assaulting another one of the women. Is that correct, Sarah? That is correct. He denies that he did anything. He denies that he had anything to do with Marie Kuma's murder or disappearance. He says that he had been with her at the pool, with a group at the pool,

and that was the last time he saw her. Take a listen to this. For the first time, Marie's friends are publicly revealing new details about their concerns about a male guest they had met at the pool also from Long Island that person kind of latched on to us as a group at first and then specifically latched on to Marie's he was just constantly drunk Helma Hermans told us she avoided the guest after she claims he sexually assaulted her in the water. She didn't report it at the time. He just went right between my legs. He groped me. And I know that there's people that saw it. Sarah Wallace, let me understand. That was you speaking

to another woman that said he groped her vaginally in the pool and she left. It was after that Marie left and I believe that's when she was killed. We don't know if there's been a DNA analysis done or a rape kit done. We know nothing. But is this guy, Frank DiCulo, who says he's innocent. Is he a former Club Med employee or was he a guest from Long Island? We understand that he was a former employee of Club Med, and Abe can discuss that in more detail. But he was also a guest at the time of the disappearance. He was definitely a guest at the resort. He used to work there, according to several people, and obviously would know the lay of the land. What about it, Abe? Did he work there? Is he from Long Island? What do we know

about this guy? Our private investigator, Eddie Dowd, that went down there, interviewed several people who confirmed that he was a former G.O., what they call it, at Club Med. You mean general operator? Something of that sort. General, it's a French term. But those people are hired to entertain guests. So that was his job a while back. And multiple people on the island confirmed that. So he would be familiar with the path that Sarah was talking about,

where the body was found, where the tourists don't normally go. I'm telling you, Chris Byers, former chief of police, Johns Creek, the police force, the medical examiner's office, the mode of investigation on these islands is nothing like what we're used to in the United States. So when you go there, you're signing up for that as well. You're not just getting the all inclusive resort. You're getting the all inclusive island.

And that's what comes with it. Absolutely. They are selling a facade there of safety and serenity. And their number one priority is going to be to protect that at all costs. You're talking about these islands that have over a million visitors every year that come to them. And this is their source of income. And to me, I would think their first priority would be to protect that and that sense of security any way possible. Because all the way back, Chief Byers, to them putting the island police, the body was found near Club Med, not on Club Med property to kind of extend the attack away from Club Med. I mean, it started at the very beginning, Chris. Yeah, absolutely. Everything that I've heard on the details have unfolded on this.

Everything I've heard is leading you to that. I mean, there's just no way around it. As one of the, I believe it was the son said, it seemed like it was swept under the rug. That's exactly what it sounds like to me. It's been a shoddy investigation. It wasn't handled properly when she was reported missing. Nothing was handled properly when they reported this guest. This just all leads to just completely shoddy investigation from the very beginning. Hey, George, tell me about the lawsuit.

I mean, you can't, obviously so far have not gotten criminal charges, so there's no satisfaction there at Turks and Caicos. What about your civil suit? Well, we filed a wrongful death action right now almost about a year ago, and what we found is just a delayed tactic after delayed tactic from Club Med's counsel. And in fact, what we've been covered during the course of the litigation is this corporate shell game where they claim there's six different entities that were involved and none of them have anything to do with the death of Marie Kuma. I think a lot of Americans would be surprised that they're not really legally insured if they go down to the resort.

The entity itself has done everything they can to attenuate themselves from any problem that they might have on the resort. Just know that Club Med and Club Med Turco denies all of this. That said, Sarah Wallace, I cannot even imagine the husband, the family, mom goes away for a girl's getaway. This woman, I know, yes, I clash with legal aid and public defenders. They work like dogs, just like prosecutors. They've got as many cases as prosecutors do. And to think she goes away for a vacation and her family never sees her again. Where does this thing stand? Why aren't we getting any criminal charges? I mean, didn't they let the alleged suspect leave the jurisdiction? Well, I think that's the pain of the family.

You know, they just want to know the answer. They want to know what happened. And they feel from the very beginning that they were stonewalled and that there is still not an active investigation. One of the things that we tried to find out, and I know the legal team has as well, were there security cameras? We were told different stories. We were told, yes, there were working cameras at the gate, but there were not security cameras? We were told different stories. We were told, yes, there were working cameras at the gate, but there were not security cameras within the property. So that's another issue that has seemed to have been stonewalled. Were there or were there not? It's a pretty

simple question to find out whether or not there was security video. Well, Sarah Wallace, now I know why you have 19 Emmy Awards. We wait as justice unfolds. I mean, it's a fine kettle of fish when an investigative reporter like Sarah Wallace and a lawyer like Abe George can tell us more about a homicide than the police can. What about that? We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.