Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DEAD ON VACATION. 'Don't Be A Victim'

Episode Date: October 2, 2020

A week away to relax and enjoy the company of friends and family is not always how a vacation turns out. Sometimes vacations can be deadly.Joining Nancy Grace today Jim Elliott - Attorney with Butler Snow, legal counsel for various Georgia municipalities and other governmental entities. www.butlersnow.com Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com  Investigator - Steven Lampley, Former Detective, Author of "12 and Murdered" available August 28th on Amazon, www.stevenlampley.com Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Ray Caputo - Lead News Anchor for WDBO Orlando Jamie Barnett, President International Cruise Victims www.internationalcruisevictims.org  Beth Twitty - Mother of Natalie Holloway Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We all look forward to vacation, whether it be seeing America first like we do in an RV or camping, heading to Mexico, traveling abroad. It sounds like so much fun, but I can't tell you how many cases I have investigated, prosecuted, and researched where vacation turns into a nightmare. You know, when I started working on our new book, Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave, I could not ignore the people I've met along the way whose loved ones suffered or even died while on vacation.

So how do you travel safely? This book proceeds going to National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is not to scare you. This book is to empower you, to help you, to give you knowledge as to how you don't have to be a victim. Joining me right now, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together. First of all, joining me, Beth Twitty, the mother of Natalie Holloway. Bill Connor, the father of Abby Connor. Jim Elliott, lawyer with Butler Snow Legal Counsel. You can find him at butlersnow.com. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C.

Steve Lampley, detective, author of 12 and Murdered on Amazon at stephenlampley.com. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, and star of Poisonous Liaisons on True Crime Network. Ray Caputo joining us, lead anchor for WDBO. It's amazing to me how many vacation dreams turn into a nightmare. First, I want to go to Miss Beth Holloway. We all know the story of Natalie Holloway, the A-plus student, American beauty, who was planning to pursue medicine at University of Alabama, but went on a school

trip to Aruba. Suddenly, Natalie, just before they're set to come back, her suitcase is packed, ready to go home. The next morning goes missing. Straight out to Beth. Beth Holloway, thank you so much for joining us once again and your willingness to rehash something very painful in order to help people arm themselves with knowledge.

Beth, when did you learn your girl Natalie was missing? When I first got the call that Natalie was missing, I was returning from Memorial Day weekend. I was returning from my family's lake home and got the call that is the dreaded phone call that no parent ever expects to receive and then was traveling somewhere outside of Memphis, Tennessee between Hot Springs and coming into Birmingham and the caller said that Natalie was missing and that no one had seen her

and that she'd missed her flight and And in that instant, I knew. I knew instantly that something was terribly wrong because it was just so out of character for Natalie. She's just not going to oversleep. She's not going to be, you know, lost somewhere in another room. So I knew instantly that she was, A, being held against her will or something even more tragic had happened to her.

You know, to you, psychologist Karen Stark, I've had so many crime victims' families say, and it happened to me, as I've told you, Karen, many times, the moment I got the call to call Keith's sister, I knew Keith was dead. I knew Keith was dead. I knew immediately. And even now, I stumble on the word dead. And I'm hearing Beth say, I knew something terrible had happened. She knew Natalie had passed away. Why is it even years later you can't say dead? Because you're traumatized, Nancy Nancy when something like that happens think

about it you know right away because you're so connected to the other person Natalie is talking about her love for her daughter right I mean Beth is talking about her love for Natalie how how connected she was to her and you would keep you're so connected that you get this call and somehow instinctively you know something dreadful is happening. That kind of trauma never goes away. It can get better and you can work on it, but there will always be a hole in your heart for that person. And that's why you still can't say the word dead. Beth, after you got that call, what did you do? You know, as the call was coming through and we were making our way out of Memphis into Birmingham,

I was making calls just trying to find connections, trying to find numbers. You know, the embassy, a consulate, the police, I was trying to find anybody that had some type of, you know, law enforcement information or resources to help us. And at the same time, simultaneously, there were other passengers in the car with me, some friends of mine that were traveling, and they were making calls just trying to find someone that might have a private plane or jet that would be able to get us to Aruba. And it was a holiday weekend, so, of course, that was almost impossible to find a pilot on a holiday and but you know fortunately we had a family friend that stepped up and had a jet waiting for

us here in Birmingham ready to roll to Aruba so we were just very fortunate very blessed that that series of events took place to get us because we were actually able to get on the island of Aruba within the same day, about 11 p.m., on the same day that I received the call that Natalie was missing. And, of course, when Beth gets there, the police have already botched the investigation. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. The scene has not been secured. People have not been interrogated. Nothing at all has already gone sideways. So to you, lead anchor WDBO Ray Caputo, how did Natalie go missing? Where was she last seen alive? Well, Nancy, she was partying with some friends and she decided to go out to a place called Carlos and Charlie's, which is a popular restaurant and club there.

And she was out with friends. And at some point she decided to hang out with a couple of islanders that she met. And actually, there's a couple of brothers, Deepak and Satish Kalpo and another guy named Joran Vanderslut. The last that she was seen by anybody was in a car with those three. And then, of course, you heard the next day, she just didn't turn up for her flight. You know, to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, I know Caputo is right in a sense, but I also think he's wrong. No offense, Ray Caputo, but I have long believed that she was roofied,

a little Georgia homeboy, gamma hydroxybutyrate, GHB, because this is a straight A student. Plus she was on the flag corps, plus this, plus that, plus, plus, plus, plus. I mean, her resume was off the charts. I don't think she decided to just leave with three guys she's never met in her life. She is a young girl. She's so smart. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about danger while traveling, and with me is Natalie Holloway's mom, Beth. So, I think she was roofied, right in her drink, and Jorn Vandersloot later says that she was vomiting on the beach, and he left her there instead of having sex with her,

right. He even could describe her underwear. No, that is all a lie. He GHB'd her, then he raped her, then he killed her, then he got rid of her body. What's GHB, Joe Scott? GHB is commonly used as a date rape drug, as you mentioned. You know, it'll go as a number of different names. Roofies is one of them. And the thing about this substance, Nancy, is that it is odorless and it is colorless and it is tasteless.

Remember, taste and odor are connected anatomically for us. She wouldn't have sensed this. So this drug pushes you down into a very, very malleable state. That means that you're subject to suggestion. That's a come with me, that sort of thing. And then you'll, I bet she was throwing up. There's no telling how much of the stuff he gave to her. Back to Beth Holloway joining us.

What, if anything, do you advise about traveling? What is your tip? When you get that call that no parent can even imagine or that your loved one is missing, and then they're in a foreign country, and I was trying to navigate this judicial and the legal system, the police, and it's just like you're just shooting in the dark. And what I tell our young sons and daughters when I speak to them at high schools and colleges, I tell them to research the area, research their destination. Find out where the U.S. Embassy is. Find out there's an American consulate there.

Research their laws. See what judicial and administrative branches of government there are. Find out who would you call should something tragic happen. And I think that's one of the most important things is know where you're going, but really take those phone numbers with you. Make sure you know how to use them. You know, you've got to make sure your phones are activated for international coverage and just be aware. You know, you have impacted me so much, Beth, and the story of Natalie in the book that took two years to research, write, and get to you for you. First rule travel. First rule of travel, be prepared.

It's not just for the Boy Scouts. Safe travel starts before you leave. Research your destination. Traveler reviews, just like you do a restaurant. Is it good or bad? Look at the hotel. Find out about the surrounding area. High crime rate? Don't go there. Don't stay there. Before you leave home, look at U.S. State Department website. Arrive in daylight hours. Parked an RV, hooked it up, pitched a tent, and arrived at hotels and motels and camping sites in the dark.

Don't do it. This book has pages and pages and pages of travel safety tips, whether you're traveling here in the U.S. or abroad. And it's not just with Natalie. Does this name ring a bell to you? Desiree Gibbons. They beat her. Why did they slit her throat? Why? Why? The family of model and aspiring filmmaker Desiree Gibbon is in their queen's home without closure. The 26-year-old's body is 1,500 miles away in Jamaica, where she was found murdered Saturday

in a small town outside the resort her grandmother owns in Montego Bay. We spoke to her mother, Andrea, last night. In a bush, in the country, where she would never have traveled, not ever. It was an isolated, desolate area, nothing there. Gibbons is convinced her daughter, who was looking for work on the island, was killed by someone known to her. It wasn't a random act of violence. It is somebody she knew. It is somebody she

trusted. Desiree Gibbons on hoping that in the struggle, the murderer's DNA was left behind. Desi's a strong girl. She's very street smart. And she fought. She fought to her last breath. An area she never would have traveled to had she known better than there is attorney Marie Kula. Listen. Marie Kula and her friends had been having a great girls getaway at Club Med in Turks and Caicos. She was having the time of her life. She really was. She kept saying to me, this is the best vacation. Kula's friends, Kim Nohilly and Helma Hermans, were on the trip with Kula and spoke exclusively with Eyewitness News today. They say the last time they saw Kunla was Sunday, October 14th, a few days after being at the resort.

I saw her around 6.30 on Sunday and she went to lay down and take a nap. Seven o'clock the next morning I was banging on her door for a while and she wasn't answering which is really weird. Nohile and Hermans immediately reported the 62-year-old Wontall resident missing, but say they didn't get much help at first from resort staff, so they went searching for Kunla themselves. It was my daughter who found the body, not the police. That was early Tuesday morning. Kunla's body was lying in bushes on the edge of the Club Med resort. Her friends say authorities told them Kunla had been strangled. She was one of the gentlest souls you would ever, ever meet.

She was a very special person. I mean, you have to be to work in family court all those years. So we go from a teen girl, Natalie Holloway, Alabama beauty, to a woman looking for work in Jamaica, to a lawyer, a practicing lawyer. You were hearing our friends at CBS2 and from ABC7. So what do we learn? And the other thing, straight out to you, Jim Elliott,

when you are abroad in some of these islands, you think, wow, Club Med, that's expensive. That's fancy. I'll be safe. Oh, no, you won't. You touch toe outside that resort, you're dead meat. You have to be careful. And then the laws in these countries are very different, and the police investigation is very different than what we are accustomed to, Jim Elliott.

Sure, Nancy, that's exactly right. And, you know, I think we all, I mean, for whatever flaws our law enforcement system and justice system in America have, it's better than so many other places. And it's just easy to assume that you're in the same world and you're totally not in the same world. You know, you really hit on something, Jim Elliott. Aside from not being in the same legal world with police protections that we have become very accustomed to, you also let your defense down. I mean, you're a practicing lawyer you've seen it all but when you go on vacation you're like oh i'm kicking back and you're not as aware a lot

of people drunk at the pool drunk here i mean you're partying you're drinking i'm not the church lady but what i am saying is you're not being aware you're not staying safe jim no i recall a trip my wife and i had where the bellman said, oh, you're perfectly safe to walk anywhere in the city day or night. And I thought, that's way more about liability laws than that's about the safety of this city. And you psychologically let your guard down.

A few of the tips I have for you, and I've got pages and pages that are born out of true stories. Plan your day before you leave the hotel. Understand where you're going and how to get there. And for Pete's sake, don't be out on the street with a map unfolded like you have no idea where you're going. Most hotels give you your keys in a folded cardstock.

That's great, but don't lose it. And don't let it be stated out loud for other people to know your room. Steer clear of groups such as protests or street vendors or bazaars where you can get pickpocketed, targeted, or followed. Those are some of the tips in here about travel. And it's not just overseas. It's not just in countries that are unfamiliar to us. Take a listen to this. I got a phone call from my son. He was in the hospital and my phone rang. And he obviously was pretty emotional.

And I believe it was like on a Saturday or Sunday morning. And Austin told me what happened. Obviously, I was a little beside myself a little bit. What did he say? What were his words? I know you can remember. He said, Dad, I got to tell you something that's going to be pretty hard to hear. And he just said that, told me about him and Abby and being at the bar.

And last thing he remembers, and he woke up in the hospital and and then he just told me that Abby's on life support so when they pulled her out of the pool obviously Abby was dead she was already gone but Austin was lucky enough that they pulled him out in time and he fully recovered obviously obviously. But Abby, Abby was on life support. And obviously, we're hoping that putting her in a coma might bring her back. But once I got down to Fort Lauderdale, where they med flighted her into, obviously, I knew the situation at that point that she wasn't coming back. Beautiful Abby Connor died just across the Texas border in a tragic, senseless, entirely avoidable death, speaking with us, her dad, Bill.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just joining us, we are talking about don't be a victim, fighting back against America's crime wave. And when you hear Natalie Holloway's mom and Abby Conner's dad speaking, you have to understand that there are ways to avoid mishaps when you are traveling. Ray Caputo, what happened to Abby Conner? Well, Nancy, what's scary about this is that she was with her family, her brother Austin, her Ma Ginny, and her stepmom John they uh and went to a resort in Playa del Carmen and they were there only a few hours and the mom and dad decide they're going to go back to the hotel room to get ready for dinner well Abby and Austin decide to stay around they meet some new friends

and they're they're sitting down at one of those like floating bars where you sit on the stools inside the water and they started lining up some shots and And Austin, in his words, like next thing he knows, he's blacked out. And when folks saw them, it was a little bit later, both were floating face down in the pool. So they were rushed to the hospital. Austin ends up pulling through. But Abby, she broke her collarbone. She slipped into a coma and she was essentially brain dead. She ultimately passed away. The death of Abby, just 20 years old, a star student at University of Wisconsin, set off a nearly two-year investigation by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that exposed dozens of tragedies experienced by tourists in Mexico in the recent years because of tainted alcohol.

These two, brother, sister, both, you know, in college, go, they have one drink. The next thing you know, they're both out of it, unconscious, in a pool, in the shallow end, and Abby is dead. Tainted alcohol. That's what happened. Multiple dozens of people losing their lives, many attributed to tainted alcohol. In these countries, Mexico is what we're talking about. They don't govern the distribution of alcohol the way we do. When you turn a seal

after you get booze at a liquor store, you know that the alcohol is fit to drink. Not in Mexico. And to you, Bill Connor, what kind of help did you get from police and hospitals and doctors when you got there? The police aren't helping. 24 hours after the incident, my son Austin and their stepdad John went to the police department and the police told them there's no reason to file a report. It was an accident. They hadn't talked to anybody at the hotel. They hadn't done any investigation or anything. And so, you know, we knew what we were up against. And obviously since then, the amount of people that we've talked to, it's a tough hole. It's not, it's a, you know,

and I want to make sure that I'm not, I'm not saying it's everybody in Mexico. I don't think the Americans are the only ones that they target. I think this has been happening for a long time. This is just something when this incident happens and the travelers that go back to where they live outside of Mexico, the difficulty with the judicial system, the difficulty with getting any cooperation just leads people to give up. And I'm not going to let this go. To you, Steve Lampley, detective, author of 12 and Murdered, at StephenLampley.com, you have taken part in investigations that cross over to Mexico and abroad. How difficult is it to solve a case like this?

Because you know the cops in Mexico are are hand in hand with the resorts making all the money you you really think you're ever going to get a straight answer out of the police about what happens in mexico nancy mexico is not the only country that uh american citizens or any citizen in another country can run a run a foul with uh there are many countries and mexico is one of them you're right a lot of times times that these companies and even the underworld will fund police departments, pad their pockets, so to speak. This is not unique to Mexico, unfortunately. But, yeah, this happens quite often, Nancy. And the reality is it's not.

But by the time you're down in Mexico and you're trying to get answers, your loved one is dead. Okay? the time you're down in Mexico, you're trying to get answers, your loved one is dead. Okay. So by that point, no matter what you find out, it's too late to save your loved ones. And Jackie's waving a stat at me over 70 tainted alcohol deaths in May in Mexico. Okay. I started to say that's not how you spell May, but yes, nearly 100. And that's at the last count. So from traveling abroad, watching your drink at bars, when you should go out, hotel safety, to even what you are drinking. There are ways to avoid this, such as asking for particular brands. When you're at a bar, there are many ways to avoid what happened to Abby as best as you can. That's really the tip of the iceberg. Take a listen to reporter Lillian Kim, ABC 7.

27-year-old Tatiana Maritanko married one year ago, and to celebrate, she and her husband James left Tuesday for Mexico City. The young couple from San Francisco was on a quest to dine at as many Michelin star restaurants as they could. But as they were leaving a restaurant on Saturday, Maritanko was shot by a stray bullet. Mexican authorities say gunmen on a motorcycle were aiming at a bouncer at a nearby bar when one of their bullets struck her in the head. She was telling me how wonderful time, how safe it was, how safe it was. Maritanko's family spoke to us from Chicago, where she grew up. A year ago, we were selecting flowers for the wedding. Today, we were looking at flowers for

the funeral. Maritanko's co-workers in San Francisco's Mission Bay are grieving, too. She worked as a senior investor relations analyst at Nectar Therapeutics, where she was described as a bright and passionate rising star with an incredibly strong work ethic. Maritango also made her mark at Clemson University, where she played Division I volleyball. She would give 200 percent. You know, as a mother, you know, we always say things, but she inspired me to be better. I'll give my life if she could just come back. You know, Karen, start when I hear the heartbreak in the voices of family members. When they said one year ago, we were picking out flowers for her wedding, and now we're picking out flowers for her funeral. This newlywed was living their dream trip.

And they were foodies. And they were going from here to there to there while they're in Mexico, trying out everything they had read about. And I've got to admit, I do it too. When I go somewhere with the twins, I plan the trip. I look up activities, where we're going to stay, where we're going to eat, all the fun things we're going to do. And I'm so engrossed in showing the twins a great time and making memories. I'm not necessarily looking around to notice an evildoer. I mean, I remember I was in the middle of researching this book, and I took the twins on a trip and took Lucy to the bathroom and John David.

So we were out in this open area and kind of like a square. And I had Lucy with me, and I was waiting on John David by the bathrooms. And some guy comes up to give me a rose. And, you know, I have Lucy with me. And I immediately go, no, no, no. And I give it back to him because then he wanted money and I didn't have any money on me. And so I was pulling Lucy away, but I couldn't leave the bathroom because John David was going to come out. And the guy would not go away and got angry. And I had little Lucy. I mean, we really put on blinders. What does that mean when you go on vacation and you think you're safe and sound and secure? You're not looking

around you? Well, that's because you're lost. Just as you said, Nancy, you're lost in the moment. You're enjoying what you're doing. But do you notice how detailed that memory is for you? And that's because it shook you up. It came out of nowhere and it frightened you. And that's the most important thing, I think, for people to realize. Even if you're on your honeymoon, the trip of a lifetime, you need to be hypervigilant. You need to know where you are. You need to look around you.

You need to really understand while you're on your trip and having a great time, where is it safe to be and where is it dangerous? So you could never let your guard down. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The dangers while while traveling that's what we're talking about and i'm not giving you these true examples to instill fear this book is all about fighting back you take back the power don't let them have the power over you and your children. You don't have to do that. A beautiful young Alaskan barista, Samantha Koenig, was abducted out of her coffee stand in the middle of a parking lot, right at a red light. The case seemingly went cold until a ransom note was sent with a picture of Samantha. She looked alive.

But her dad said no, she would never wear her hair in braids. So the dad noticed that. Later, we learn that this teen girl, Samantha Koenig, was abducted at gunpoint, driven to a remote location, raped, beaten, sodomized for days on end. The perp, Israel Keyes, would turn up the music so people living nearby, including his girlfriend and their daughter, would not hear Samantha screaming. And in that picture, Samantha was already dead. But the perp, Israel Keyes, had sewn her eyes open,

covered her face with thick makeup, and blurred the picture when he asked for ransom. When he was finally caught, the serial killer, Israel Keyes, I want you to take a listen to Israel Keyes, the serial killer, in his own words during an FBI interrogation. When I was smart, I would let them come to me. Just remote area. Kind of good with a remote area that's not anywhere near where you live, but that other people go to as well. You might not get exactly what you're, not much to choose from in a manner of speaking,

but there's also no witnesses really. There's nobody else around. I was far back because I can remember. But you know, that's where I get a lot of the ideas, either fishing or out hunting. See somebody in the woods. What Israel Keyes admitted to is to praying his victims like a hunter going to campgrounds and RV parks, remote areas where people would be in a compromised situation. To Ray Caputo, joining me, lead anchor WDBO there in Orlando. What can you tell me about the killer, Israel Keyes? How many people do we think he's actually killed? It's up around 30, I believe. And the stalking at locations,

what do we know about him? Well, he came from a Mormon family. He deconverted from the faith when he was young. He moved around. He had a religious background, even served in the military. He admitted to killing people in Washington, killing people in New York State. I mean, the guy has just got a dark soul, Nancy. I don't know what happened to him. When I think about him, straight out to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, death investigator, he's like a hunter hunting for his prey and he hunts and campgrounds and rv parks remote areas that's from his own admission his own confession joe scott yeah that's what he feels comfortable with nancy these guys are predators and they they hunt in a specific area they're

not going to go to like a densely populated uh urban, they queue in on certain things. People that are alone, people that have their guard down, people that have small children or young women. It doesn't matter, but it's going to focus within their skill set or that that they've developed. And it's very, very gruesome. While we have been out camping and RVing across the country, we just went all the way from the East Coast all the way out to Yellowstone, the Tetons, Montana, and back in an RV. I learned a lot. For example, and in our book, Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime wave, there are tips for you. Whether you're traveling within the U.S., camping, RVing, going to Mexico, going abroad, hotel safety, peephole safety, there are a million things here for you to protect you

so you do not become a victim. Speaking of RV and camping, be prepared, of course. Don't leave home without knowing your route, where you're staying. I lined up our RV campsites in advance to make sure that there was a spot and we wouldn't be stranded out in the Walmart parking lot. Might as well take out a sign, a billboard on 3rd Avenue saying, hey, I'm alone. Victimize me. Use reliable and up-to-date maps and don't count on your GPS when you're camping in RVing because it failed on us more often than not when we were up in the mountains crossing the Badlands. Get familiar with new equipment before you go.

Don't be out in the middle of the night trying to pitch a tent like I have done or trying to hook up your RV in the dark. Don't do it. Don't go that off the grid. Let people know where you are so when you don't call in in a day or two, they know something is wrong.

Always bring an emergency device. Camp near a host or a family. If you can, bring your dog, even if he's like a little dachshund like our dogs. Keep your cell phone with you and charge. Know how to signal SOS. My children know, and they're just 12. Never, ever let a stranger onto your campsite or your RV, much less in your tent. Some RVs carry stun guns in the glove compartment. Don't flash money. Keep

everything charged. Also, get a cell plan that travels with you from state to state, country to country. I mean, I go on and on. There's so many tips and things to know. We have incorporated them, and they're part of the way we travel. You know, I don't know about you, but Karen Stark, when I hear these stories, I get so upset. And I think about how I can protect my children. We can never totally 100% protect ourselves or our families, but we can try. And just knowing that I'm trying gives me a sense of that I'm not powerless. And I think that's the most important point that you've made, Nancy, is to fight back. Really, don't be a victim and fight back.

So you have children and anyone who has children or family members, you're always worried that something will happen. Be prepared. And you know what else, guys? Karen, I may not be able to beat you in a fist fight, but I bet I can beat you up here, hands down, because I will be prepared. You don't have to be a genius. You just got to prepare and you got to know how to stay safe. Proceeds going to National Center, missing exploited children. Don't be a victim. Fight back. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.