Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DEATH BY MERCEDES: $$$ Socialite Mows Down Brothers, Wins Court Victory

Episode Date: January 26, 2025

It's a small court victory for convicted socialite Rebecca Grossman against the parents of two young boys killed when a drunk Grossman plowed into them. The family is civilly suing Grossman and her former MLB star lover Scott Erickson for wrongful death.  Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Huey Cotton threw out a motion to fast-track.  The judge’s decision means that trial won't start until the original December 1 date.  Just after 7 pm, on a September evening, Jacob and Mark Iskander, their siblings, and parents go for an evening stroll to a nearby lake.   The 6 member family is crossing in a crosswalk at a three-way intersection when mother Nancy hears a speeding car barreling their way.  The mom says her husband and daughter were father away from the street. She tries to signal to the two SUVs to slow down.  She tries to pull the children back, only managing to grab 1 of them and dive out of the way.  Jacob and Mark are hit.   Mark Iskander dies at the scene. Jacob dies later at the hospital. According to police, Mark was thrown 254 feet.   Nancy Iskander tells police that two SUVs  were  "zig-zagging with each other as if they were playing or racing.”  She says the drivers didn’t stop, at the intersection, not even when the 11-year-old was on the hood of the car. Deputies reportedly catch up with a white Mercedes with significant front-end damage a third of a mile from the scene.  Behind the wheel is Rebecca Grossman.  The Los Angeles County Sheriff's department says they believe that vehicle was traveling over 80 miles an hour. Grossman’s breathalyzer test after the crash showed a blood-alcohol content of 0.076% according to local news reports. The legal limit in California is 0.08%.  A blood sample taken three hours after the crash registered at the 0.08% mark. Rebecca Grossman was charged and convicted of two felony counts each of second-degree murder, vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence, and one felony count of hit-and-run driving resulting in death.  Grossman was sentenced to 15 years to life in prison. Joining Nancy Grace today: Mark Klaas - Founder, Klass Kids Foundation www.klaaskids.org   Kathleen Murphy - North Carolina, Family Attorney, www.ncdomesticlaw.com   Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta Ga www.angelaarnoldmd.com Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, former director of MADD, Georgia Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network Ray Caputo - Lead News Anchor for Orlando's Morning News, 96.5 WDBO   TIPLINE: Mothers Against Drunk Driving 24-Hour Victim Help Line: 877.MADD.HELP or 1-877-623-3435See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Rebecca Grossman, a multimillionaire socialite, runs down two little boys in front of their screaming mother who managed to save the other children. In the last hours, Rebecca Grossman has a courtroom victory. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Wealthy multimillionaire socialite Rebecca Grossman fatally mows down two little boys crossing a Westlake Village street in the crosswalk, gets a courtroom victory.

The judge, in the judge's wisdom, denies a motion by the little boy's family for an expedited trial on wrongful death and negligence. What happened the day these beautiful angels were mowed down out taking a walk with their family? Mark and Jacob Iskander, just 11 and 8, were with their family that September day, mowed down and killed by a Mercedes speeding by, driven by Rebecca Grossman, the chairwoman of the Grossman-Byrne Foundation. What happened? So many questions. Let's start it off. Listen. Just after 7 p.m. on a September evening, Jacob and Mark Iskender, their siblings and parents, go for an evening stroll to a nearby lake.

The boys enjoy rollerblading and skateboarding. The six-member family is heading home, crossing in a crosswalk at a three-way intersection when mother Nancy heard a speeding car barreling their way. The mom says her husband and daughter were further away from the street. She tries to signal to the two SUVs heading their way to slow down. She tried to pull the children back, only managing to grab one of them, a five-year-old, and dive out of the way. Jacob and Mark, who were farther out in the crosswalk, are hit. Mark Iskender dies at the scene. Jacob dies later at the hospital. According to police, Mark was thrown 254 feet. 254 feet. Can you imagine that? Coming up on the scene and seeing a little helmet, a child's scooter, and crime scene tape?

With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. First of all, founder of Class Kids Foundation, Mark Class. You can find him at classkids.org, and that's with a K. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial lawyer. You can find her at ncdomesticlaw.com. Renowned psychiatrist. Joining us out of Atlanta, Dr. Angela Arnold at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, former president of MAD Georgia, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, Cheryl McCollum, professor of forensics,

Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a new series on the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first, to the lead news anchor, WDBO, Ray Caputo. Ray Caputo, two brothers dead in one fell swoop, one just nine years old, the other just 11. What happened? Well, Nancy, this was a really hot day. This happened at West Lake Village, California. It's about an hour west of L.A., depending on the traffic. And it's a hot day, and the family goes out, Jacob and Mark.

They're 8 and 11. They're with their mom and their dad and two other siblings, and they're simply crossing the street. Okay, hold on. Just let me understand something. It's, okay, they're with their whole family. It's not like the children were in the middle of the road riding their scooters. They're in a crosswalk with their family, correct?

Yes, a well-marked crosswalk. You know, I want to understand where this is. Mark Klass, founder of Klass Kids Foundation. Where is Westlake Village? Where is that in California? Well, it's several hundred miles from where I am, but I've been through Westlake and it's a suburb of Los Angeles. You know, when you say a suburb of L.A., having lived out in L.A. during Dancing with the Stars, that could mean anything. I mean, it could be a beach area. It could be a rural area. It could be farming land because California is so diverse. But a good hour outside

of L.A. in my mind means suburbs, people that will drive an hour to get to work in L.A. through that god-awful traffic. So we're talking about a suburb of L.A. which is full of beautiful country called Westlake Village. We're talking about Mark and Jacob, and they're 9 and 11 years old, and they're with their entire family, including mommy and daddy. So back to you, Ray Caputo, I think I heard you say they were in a crosswalk, correct? Yeah, it was a crosswalk. Now, this is a suburb, so it wasn't a heavily congested area. When you think of downtown Los Angeles, it's a concrete jungle. It wasn't like this. There was a lot of hills, though, and it was residential. So they were in a crosswalk. They're doing what a lot of families do on a Tuesday night when it's hot out and you want to get a little exercise.

You know, I take Lucy and John David. We get the dog, Fat Boy, and we walk all the time, practically every day, rain or shine. And it's usually about that time when they're done with school and I'm through with work and everything is calming down from all the craziness during the day. And I'm just imagining this family. You know, Ray Caputo, you said the whole family was there. How many of them were there? Well, there was at least two siblings and one of them was in a stroller. So there was the mom and the dad.

And you can imagine that, that you, the child in the stroller is getting the most attention. They're getting pushed around, but you know, everybody was there. Mom and dad were with the kids and it was just, I think there was about six of them, including the boys. The whole family together. You know, when I go with the whole family together, somewhere I feel more safe because we're all there together.

I've got the children with me. My husband's there. We're all focused on keeping the twins safe at all times. Take a listen to Chris Holmstrom at KCAL 9. It was just before dark. A family of six was walking across this crosswalk when tragedy struck. Captain Salvador Becerra with the L.A. County Sheriff's Department describes what happened next. The family were in a marked crosswalk, clearly marked.

As she realized there were two cars speeding her way, she was able to reach out and grab one of her children off of a Razor scooter, pulled the child back with the stroller, with another child in the stroller, as the car entered the intersection and hit the other two boys. There's six people, including two adults and a stroller. How could you not see that? It wasn't even dark yet. To Ray Caputo, did the two boys, 9 and 11, die right there on the scene where they raced to the hospital? What happened? Oh, it's just terrible, Nancy. Well, one of the boys died at the scene.

He was carried on the hood of the car for about 100 feet, and then the car stopped, and the little boy flew off, and then he was ran over. The other child was taken to the hospital. Wait, off and then he was, he was ran over. The other child. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Slow down. What did you just say? Unfortunately, the woman hit the little boy, the little boy and carried him a hundred feet. And then he flew off the car and she ran him over. Wait, wait, wait, right there.

So it's not dark yet. They're in a crosswalk. There are six people, including two adults and a stroller. That accounts for three people. So there were three others. That is a group. How can you miss a group of people? Just let's just pretend that the driver come over a hill and hit them, which I don't believe is the case because under the rules of

the road, just like where you put a double line, you're not supposed to cross on a double line or pass anybody. You wouldn't put a crosswalk right there as coming up over a hill because it's too dangerous. So as if you couldn't see them a mile away, we learn from witnesses that one of these two little boys was carried on the hood of the car for 100 feet. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, wealthy socialite Rebecca Grossman accused of having a boozy lunch,

then basically drag racing in a neighborhood, mowing down two little boys, gets a courtroom victory. The judge ruling the little boy's families cannot have an expedited trial on negligence and wrongful death. What happened September 29? I want to go back to you, Ray Caputo. This was in a crosswalk and they have engineers looking at where a crosswalk should be, where there should be a double line, where you should put a red light or a stop sign or a flashing yellow light for reasons because it fits with the topography. I just don't believe that a crosswalk was, you mentioned hills, that's where I'm getting this from,

you Ray Caputo, I just don't believe a crosswalk was right at the top of a hill. Well, there was a crosswalk, you've got to imagine, like, imagine a T, and there's a road that's coming down, a hilly, very hilly road. Coming down. And then there's a crosswalk, so my

assumption is that is that you know that might have played into it it says that she was on this road and i believe that she may have taken a turn where there was a stop sign that just kept ripping through it because she was going really fast and i've seen this on a map and i can understand how someone who's intoxicated just out of their mind not paying attention to the road if But if you're coming down a road, like you're saying there's a hill coming down, you can see down. It's not as if she was coming up a hill and then suddenly

you're in a crosswalk and there are people in the middle of it. Cheryl McCollum, you're the former president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving Georgia. Help me out here. Nancy, there were so many things this woman did wrong before that accident. I'm just talking right now about the crosswalk.

Crosswalks are there in that spot for a reason. So you can see it. Correct. But not somebody that's drunk. It could very well be she was fiddling with the radio. It could be that she was going through her purse. Okay. Very well be. She was fiddling with the radio. It could be that she was going through her purse. Okay, speaking of that, take a listen to anchor Suzanne Marquez with Tina Patel, CBS LA. We have more breaking news. A driver has been arrested after a crash last night in Westlake Village that killed two children.

CBS 2's Tina Patel is live with the latest on this investigation. It's heartbreaking developments this morning. Tina. It really is. One boy died here at the scene. The other one was taken to the hospital, and we just learned that he also passed away. Now, the Sheriff's Department is not releasing the ages of those boys or saying whether they are related. But you can see the news of the tragic death has hit this community. Many are coming now to leave flowers.

Oh, yeah. They weren't releasing a lot of information are coming now to leave flowers. Oh yeah, they weren't releasing a lot of information and now we know why. Take a listen to Mary Beth McDade, KTLA 5. Grossman, who's married to a prominent plastic surgeon, Peter Grossman, reportedly hit one boy who rolled up onto her hood. She reportedly slammed on her brakes so he'd roll off, and then she ran him over. Deputies reportedly caught up with Grossman about a quarter mile away in her white Mercedes, which had front-end damage and arrested her. Rebecca Grossman was arrested for a vehicle. She's been charged with two counts of vehicular manslaughter and was arrested for DUI.

The Iskanders are well known in their Westlake Village and church communities. So Rebecca Grossman was driving that white Mercedes married to a prominent plastic surgeon, Peter Grossman. Now, Cheryl McCollum, former director of MADD, M-A-D-D, Mothers Against Drunk Driving Georgia. Did you hear that? That reportedly hit one boy and he flew up onto her hood. She kept going about 100 feet and slammed on brakes so the boy would roll off, then ran over him and did not stop. She kept going. Did you get that in the news report from KTLA 5? Think about that, Nancy.

The cops didn't find her for a quarter of a mile. But Nancy, think about the fact that she's already hurt him severely by running over him and killing his brother. She makes the choice of getting that child off the hood of her car and ran over him in order to flee and get away. She made the conscious choice to do more damage to that baby than to stop and render aid. Joining me right now, I want to go straight out to Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist at AngelaArnoldMD.com. What in the world would make you keep going after you hit a child? It reminds me of a case I covered on Court TV a while back, and the defendant's name was Shantae Mallard. She hit a man in the street, then with him on the hood, stuck on the hood, she drives all the way to her home, pulls her car into the garage, closes the garage, and leaves him on the windshield to die. He could have been saved in the time she sat there going, wow, am I going to get in trouble for this? She left the guy impaled on the hood while he died. Here you've got this woman, according to

eyewitnesses, carried the little boy on the hood of the car, a hundred feet, slammed on brakes. The boy fell off. Then she ran over him. So it's such a horrific act, Nancy, that most of us cannot understand. But to me, it speaks to something deeper that is wrong with this woman on top of her alcohol addiction, apparently. Well, let's talk about that for a moment. I want to find out from you, Ray Caputo, WDBO, why alcohol is being thrown around. How come we don't think she was just, let's just say, street racing or joyriding or in a hurry? How did alcohol get into the mix? Well, that's what the deputy said. They found her about a mile down the road. This is the scary part. We see this a lot with people who have money.

They know what happens when things go sideways. If you hit somebody and you're drinking, the best thing to do is get the heck away from the scene, apparently, and not be seen until you sober up. This woman's car breaks down a mile away, and that's when she's busted. If she would have got away, I would almost guarantee that they'd be mounting a defense of, I wasn't drinking. Now, also, you mentioned street racing. She was apparently street racing, too. She was traveling at a high rate of speed, and she was drinking. I mean, what a host of factors, and you wonder why something went wrong here. Well, I'll tell you how I learned that DUI, driving under the

influence of alcohol or drugs, was part of this because she, this renowned, prominent member of the community, husband is a high-profile plastic surgeon, she was arrested on suspicion of manslaughter and DUI. After smashing her speeding Mercedes into Brothers Mark and Jacob 11 and 9 Westlake Village, she only stopped a mile and a half away when her engine cut out. Cheryl McCollum, former director of MAD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving Georgia, she didn't pull over and call police. She was only stopped because of car trouble. She did nothing to help this family. She did nothing to help the two little boys.

She did nothing to render aid, help in any way. She didn't even go to a pay phone and call 911 anonymously to get help there. You know, Cheryl, suffering the sudden and criminal death of somebody you love sticks with you forever. As you all know, having dealt with so many crime victims. But this mother and father

were right there. One son died on the scene, Cheryl, and the car kept going. What that must be like for them. Right there, one son died on the scene, Cheryl, and the car kept going. What that must be like for them. I mean, Hug used to race BMX, and I can play right now in my head the worst wreck he ever had. And he was fine. But as a mother, you just, you know, play it over and over and over. What they must be living with, watching their two children mowed down.

One killed at the scene, one you have hope for, for a moment. And then that snacks from you too, because this woman decides she wants to drink and street race. You're not talking about a 17 year old kid that makes a stupid decision. Believe it or not, wealthy socialite Rebecca Grossman accused suspect number one in mowing down two little boys out walking with their family gets a courtroom victory. But what happened when the boys lost their lives? According to police, this woman, Rebecca Grossman, prominent in her community and wealthy, not only mowed the two little boys down in front of mom and dad, but kept going. She was charged with suspicion of voluntary manslaughter and DUI. I want you to take a listen to our cut number 12.

Now, you may recognize some of these voices. This is a montage of all the coverage about how fantastic this woman and her husband were. So many of us at ABC News know about the work that the Grossman Byrne Foundation has done to provide so much care, new life for women, children, people around the United States and the world in need of that urgent medical care. I just wanted to take a moment of your time this evening to say a few words about the Grossman Byrne Foundation. This extraordinary organization is making a huge difference around the world. Another miracle at the Grossman Byrne Center here in Southern California. The Grossman Byrne Foundation has launched a campaign to stop the violence carried out against women around the world. A local Oscar winning special effects

artist has become a hero to a woman on the other side of the globe, a woman whose face was destroyed by her own husband. Rebecca Grossman of the Grossman Byrne Foundation found out about Eustace. Rebecca takes the prosthetics, travels to Indonesia, and delivers them to Eustace in person. It's a day Eustace never thought would come. Finally, she gets the first sign of hope that she'll feel complete again. You're hearing so much about the Byrne Foundation. Remember, this woman's husband is a prominent plastic surgeon. So they're well-known and wealthy in that community. I know that the husband, who is, as I said, a wealthy and prominent plastic surgeon,

had been working with the Byrne Foundation. But what about the wife, Rebecca Grossman? And what about that particular day that these two little boys were mowed down? Take a listen to Tina Patel, CBS LA. Investigators arrested a 57-year-old driver and charged her with vehicular manslaughter. A white Mercedes with front-end damage was towed away about a half mile from the crash scene, but investigators would not confirm whether the driver stopped voluntarily or whether this was a hit-and-run. People who live nearby hope this crash will be a wake-up call for drivers to slow down

and for the city to do more to protect pedestrians. You know, I want to go to you, Mark Klass, founder of Klass Kids Foundation, to protect children. Have you ever seen cases where the public doesn't get all the details for a lot of the facts surrounding the case are kept under the rug? For instance, what is this woman's blood alcohol? They're not even saying that they'll confirm it was a hit and run. She was arrested about a mile away. Yes, it was a hit and run. I don't need a crime scene reconstructions to tell me that, Mark Glass. You know, Nancy, the nonprofit world is full of hypocrites. It's full of wealthy people who sit on boards of nonprofit organizations for no other reason than they can talk about themselves at cocktail parties and give each other awards for the great work that they do. And I think Cheryl can attest to that. She knows the nonprofit world as well.

And I think that's exactly what we have here. Now, they can talk about how wonderful Mrs. Grossman is and all of the great things she's done. But she's also the woman who plowed down two little boys, bumped one of them off of the hood of her car, and then ran over him again so that she could escape responsibility. This is a woman with no conscience. This is a woman with no morals. This is a woman who most certainly does not belong behind the driver's seat of a car. Cheryl McCollum, I know that she's charged with suspicion DUI. Now, you know, the case will be ruined if they did not do an appropriate blood alcohol content test on her, a blow test. And that is the end of a DUI case. If you let her off the hook from that blow test at the scene, you can't prove at trial she was DUI.

So they have her charged with suspicion DUI. Why would they have charged her with that, Cheryl? There must be some evidence. Either they could smell alcohol on her breath. There was evidence in the car of a bottle or something like that. But Nancy, the other thing they're missing, they don't have the traditional things you would have with an accident like this. They're not going to have skid marks. She didn't stop. Good point. Good point. So there's so many things. They can't get her accurate speed. They may not have an accurate VAC. They may not have it. We do know this, though,

Cheryl. Now, this is good news for the prosecution. If they take the case all the way, if they don't get over impressed with money and prominence. Joe Scott Morgan, the professor of forensic at Jacksonville State University and death investigator, the cops have broken down and told us that this socialite, Rebecca Grossman, did test over the legal limit. Explain. Yeah, the legal limit, depending upon where you are, is generally going to be in a range of about 0.015, that region right there. And it's going to go to significant impairment. And that is your motor function. How can you make judgments? But this

is one of the problems, going back to what Max said just a second ago with her. You know, this woman has a history of driving while intoxicated. This is my question. If she is addicted to alcohol, her tolerance level is going to be much higher. So there are people that have a dependency upon alcohol that can still function, be up, you know, whereas you or I might have a drink, a couple of glasses of wine or something, and we're out like a baby. This woman might go through two or three bottles of wine, so be upright and functioning. So it's kind of a hit or miss. They need to have done this early on. Okay, now hold on.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Look at the front end of her Mercedes. You can see it at ClimbOnline.com. Look at that. It looks like she ran into another car. Yeah, if I could address that. This is a full-size Mercedes sedan, Nancy.

And, you know, Mercedes, one thing they're known for, it's not just a luxury car. They're known as being a safe car, well-built. And Nancy, it looks like she ran into a damn telephone pole. It's a center mass strike. And just so people at home will understand, if you imagine that great big Mercedes symbol that sits right in the center of the grill, that's gone. And not only that, the hood itself is crushed in this gives us an

indication that when she struck these two little boys as you mentioned just a second ago in front of their parents mind you she was traveling at such a high rate that at least because i don't have all the data from the scene it gives the appearance that she hit a fixed object, Nancy. Not some non-anchored person like these two children. She hit something at such a high rate of speed, it literally collapsed the front of that car. I don't see how the airbags kept from deploying. And if you look at that image real quick, she did try to flee. The only reason she didn't get away, if you take a real close look at that image on Crime Online, you'll see that there are fluids that have poured out of the bottom of this thing. So it disabled the vehicle. she could have put as much distance between her and that event, that homicide,

then you would have had time for the blood alcohol to metabolize in her system. She would have gone, and this has happened numbers of times with high-profile people over the years. If you don't have that science to back it up, if you don't know what the BA is, at that moment in time, you've back it up. If you don't know what the BA is at that moment in time, you've lost it forever. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Multimillionaire socialite Rebecca Grossman gets courtroom victory. This after a jury says she mowed down two little boys dead after a boozy

lunch. Six family members were crossing the three-way intersection in a marked crosswalk on the road. The parents heard the speeding Mercedes. They could hear it speeding. And hearing the car, they reached out to grab their children. They grabbed Zachary and Violet. Mark and Jacob were too far away. They heard the speeding car, Cheryl. Now you understand the legal implications of this.

They could hear it at a distance, speeding. There were no skid marks. The parents grabbed the children they can reach. The ones they couldn't reach were mowed down. Analyze it, Cheryl McCollum. Nancy, what you're going to have is you're going to have the police go, they've got to go back. They've got to get video from every ring camera. If they have the flock system, they've got to get that video. They've got to trace her action backwards. Where did she drink?

How much did she drink? Where did she get it from? Did she pay for it? Was it already at home? Was she at a bar? Yeah, they're going to retrace all of her steps. At least I hope they are. They've got to, Nancy, because they don't have anything else. Because again, they know the blood alcohol is going to be contested. They know that they're going to have a fight on their hands. So they've got to go back and show, just like you used to do, that this crime didn't occur at 9 47 p.m or 6 45 this crime occurred at two o'clock when she took her first drink it occurred at 3 15 when she took the next one it occurred at 5 60 when she had her third one and then she chose to get in the car after

five or six or a bottle. And that's what they've got to show the importance of that. They've got to go back and show every speeding ticket. They've got to show every failure to maintain lane. They've got to show every DUI she's ever had, even if they reduced it to, you know, whatever they might have reduced it to, reckless driving or such. You know. We all know reckless driving usually is a DUI that's been reduced. They've got to look at every single one, every single time her prominent husband has saved her.

They've got to go talk to friends and say, hey, how many cocktail parties does she throw? How often do y'all know her? Well, it's going to be critical that they trace her steps that day. Amen. Because Mark Klass, I mean, have you ever heard accident used in DUIs? It's no accident, Mark Klass, because as Cheryl McCollum was saying, you start in the day drinking. You decide to get your car keys.

You decide to walk out to your car after you've been drinking. You decide to insert the key in the ignition and start the car, put it reverse and then drive. There you go. All those were conscious decisions, Mark Klass. They were conscious decisions by a woman who's probably done that hundreds of times and doesn't really seem to care about the safety of anybody else, feels that she's privileged enough that she can do what she wants, when she wants, and have some kind of a sterling reputation and a lot of money to fall back on. Straight out to Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial lawyer. At the scene, we've seen so many celebrity walk a straight line test, touch your nose tests, say the ABCs test.

What other tests are performed at the scene or supposed to be performed when cops suspect DUI? Well, obviously the markers are a breathalyzer. She could refuse the breathalyzer. If she refuses the breathalyzer, they'll take blood work at the hospital or wherever she's incarcerated, I would suppose. They can do the field sobriety test, such as heel-toe. They also can take other steps to determine whether or not they're drinking, such as alcohol bottles in the car, the smell of alcohol on that lady's breast. We do know that this prominent socialite, Rebecca Grossman, was involved in an accident in 2012 where the other driver claimed she ran a red light driving over 65 in a 40 mph zone and plowed into the back of his car. The driver passed away later from ill health, but the insurance report includes his detailed description of the crash. Now, in that case, we know that insurance paid out $100,000 and a settlement with Grossman. She was injured in that, too.

So what, if anything, do we know about her history, Ray Caputo? Well, Nancy, she's not a good driver, that's for sure. I mean, you can only speculate that that's connected to this. I mean, I don't know for sure, but it seems to be that the writing was on the wall for Ms. Grossman, and she had plenty of opportunity to fix, you know, some of the issues that she had in her life, but, you know, she didn't, and here we are. This tragedy was avoidable. It was something that shouldn't have happened, and now this family is going to be living with this for the rest of their lives.

And, you know, this grossman's life is done, too, pretty much. Her reputation is gone. I'm really more worried about the two dead boys than anybody's reputation. Dr. Angela Arnold, what about the people surrounding her? I mean, according to a Daily Mail report, quote, she's a reckless driver. The socialite charged with killing two young boys in DUI hit and run previously totaled another driver's car after, quote, speeding through a red light, and then she sued him, even though she ran into the back of his

car. You know, Nancy, I don't believe that they should be calling her a socialite. I think that they should be calling her a sociopath. That is what this woman is. At the core of who she is, she is a sociopath. Why do we have to be describing this woman who has hit and killed two children and has absolutely no remorse? Instead of a socialite, we should be calling her a sociopath today. And I'm just wondering, Cheryl McCollum, director of MAD Georgia, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, everybody around her, I mean, are they enabling her drinking and driving?

Weigh in. Nancy, I think the most important thing is forget everybody around her. This is solely on her. She did this. This is nothing new. Behavior. She chose to drink. She chose to drive.

She chose to try to cover it up. She chose to try to hide her face now. She has chosen not to reach out to the family and apologize. She has chosen to do all of these things that show exactly who she is. And I think that last statement was dead on accurate. She is a sociopath. You know, Cheryl McCollum, people refer to these scenes as an accident. I disagree completely. This is no accident. No, this is a homicide scene, period. As always, our prayers with the victim's family at this hour, and we wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.