Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Decomposing baby boy found hanging dead in baby swing as child actor claims Hollywood pedophile ring

Episode Date: October 30, 2017

A couple faces murder charges after their infant son was found rotting in a swing in their Utah home. Nancy Grace is looks at the case with psychologist Dr. Tiffany Sanders, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan,  reporter Shelby Lynn, and co-host Alan Duke. Corey Feldman wants fans to give him $10 million so he can make a movie exposing what he claims is a long-running pedophile ring in Hollywood. Grace and experts discuss the former child actor's claims. RadarOnline reporter Alexis Tereszcuk joins Nancy to talk about how "Hot Felon" Jeremy Meeks is hitting Hollywood. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Authorities have charged a couple with murder in the death of their four-month-old son. He was found to have maggots on his body, which led investigators to determine he hadn't been changed, bathed, or removed from his baby swing in over a week. They found him in a swing, found him dead. I don't know how anybody could do that. Court documents show Sterling died weighing less than seven pounds. That's below the fifth percentile for his age. The pair said they checked on the baby at 9 a.m. and said he was fine. Two hours later, Cade said he found the baby dead. Law enforcement say that's not how the child ended up dying. It's just sad. Four-month-old and he's gone.

A four-month-old baby boy has been found dead. His parents insist they checked on him and fed him just a few hours earlier. But when he was found, he was found dead in a baby swing. And his body was decaying. Now, you know, a lot of people don't believe in the death penalty. But when I read about this four-month-old baby boy whose body was actually decaying out in a swing, and the parents say, oh, we just fed him. That is scientifically impossible. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Crime sometimes is tough to

take. It doesn't go down easy. Let's just say it's not stirred with milk and sugar. But what's more important than our discomfort in hearing stories, certain stories, is the realization that they're not just stories. They're real cases that cry out for justice. Straight out to Shelby Lynn Erdman, investigative reporter. What happened, Shelby? Nancy, this case is enough to make even the bravest of people cringe. What we know right now is we've got a couple, Zachary Paul Cohn, 28 years old, Cheyenne Renee Harris, 20 years old. Cohn called 911 and told the dispatcher that Harris, the mother, had just checked on her baby, their four-month-old baby boy named Sterling, and that half hour after they fed him, they went back to check on him and

he was dead. Well, that, of course, is far from what had happened. The state medical examiner has ruled the death a homicide. Quoting now, the examiner called it a failure to provide critical care. The autopsy suggests that Chickasaw County Sheriff deputies basically saw probably one of the most horrifying scenes a police officer could come across. The baby weighed less than seven pounds, had maggots in various stages of development in his clothing and on his skin. For more than a week, investigators are saying baby Sterling did not have a diaper change or a bath, had not been taken out of a power baby swing inside one of the home's bedrooms in more than a week, in more than a week. And that's according to an affidavit.

And the court document, this is a quote from the court documents. The facts of this case go far beyond neglect and show circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life. We know that Harrison Combs, they've been arrested. The actual facts around their arrest are unclear, but they are both jailed, charged with child endangerment causing death. That's a class B felony and first degree murder. That's a class A felony punishable by life in prison. The other thing that we know is this happened in Alta Vista. That's a small town, fewer than 300 people, about 170 miles northeast of Des Moines. And we also know that the couple

actually has another child. No information right now on the circumstances surrounding that child, the condition that child was in. But, yeah, this is a pretty horrifying case. You're right about Alta Vista. It's a very small town, fewer than 300 people. It's about 170 miles north of Des Moines. And you're right. According to the complaint affidavit, the couple has another child.

Let me go back over the very disturbing details Shelby Lynn Erdman has just recounted, all of which are true and are coming from police affidavit reports. I want to go to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University and death investigator. Joe Scott, this is how to prove this case. First of all, the parents were lying when they called and said the baby had died after the 911 call and that they had just fed him just before the 911 call. That is absolutely incompatible with the forensic evidence. Second, the larva, the maggots, as they are called in slang. The varying degrees of their development show how long the body had been there. And that is a very

common tactic, a technique used by medical examiners when bodies have been discarded is to actually date the age of the larva, the maggots, to determine how long the body had been there and how long the body had been decomposing. Why? To determine the time, manner, and cause of death. Comment. First off, I just want to say something something this child's name was Sterling Sterling that was his name and he's dead he's dead because he was left in a swing and abandoned this child was left in this position for an extended period of time how do we know even the medical examiner consulted with a forensic entomologist Nancy that's a PhD that goes out and does nothing but study bugs and their

development. And the forensic entomologist indicated that there were, that these flies, probably common house flies, blow flies, were actually cycling through and that they are shed husk. Maggots have been developed. There were more eggs that were being laid. And this gives us an indication of time. Right now, we're thinking that this baby had been in the swing for a minimum, a minimum, Nancy, if you can imagine this, a week. A week indwelling in the same residence as the child's was only, the child was five pounds at birth, essentially. This is four months prior to. Now, when they weighed this child, Nancy, the child was seven pounds. Every parent in the audience understands basic development of an infant. And this child was way, way, way down on the low end of the scale. This child had never been cared for since birth. The child finally died, hanging there in a swing.

You know, Joe Scott, sometimes when I would try cases or investigate cases, be out on the street, talking to witnesses, going to homes, going to crime scenes, I remember just sitting in my car staring because I was so overwhelmed with how cruel people can be to each other. I remember pulling off the side of the road, leaving the courthouse, and just pulling the car over in downtown Atlanta and just crying over the way a little two-year-old girl had died. And sometimes it's easier and more practical not to know the name, not to think about what the child went through, what the victim went through. Because it's so hard for me to focus on the facts and, for instance, hungry, crying, snotting, just as flies colonized on the child. Where were the parents?

They were in the home. Then had the wherewithal to lie. I want to talk about these parents. Joining me is Dr. Tiffany Sanders, Shelby Lynn Erdman, Joe Scott Morgan, of course, Alan Duke. Dr. Tiffany Sanders, what can you tell me about Zachary Paul Cohn and Cheyenne Renee Harris? innocent child who is looking to his parents to protect and care for him was abandoned and left in the swing to die as if it was some sort of science experiment to see what happens to his body and whether he can fend for himself. It's unthinkable. But I have to ask the question, at least for the mother, was there mental illness? Was this mother suffering from postpartum psychosis? Or did she have some sort of trauma in her childhood related to some abuse that she was not connected to her child,

and that she didn't have your traditional motherly instincts to protect the child from any and all harm? So I'm questioning... Dr. Tiffany, I have a question for you. Do you have any shred of evidence to support anything you just said? Well, absolutely. I can speak anecdotally. I treat people from all walks of life who have the worst mental health issues. And I've seen mothers with postpartum depression. No, about this woman. About this woman?

Of course not. But all I can do is suggest as to why someone would do something unthinkable like this. There are mothers who, you know, many people unfortunately kill their children a year. She's not the first and she will not be the last. And she did not protect her child. But why would someone who just recently gave birth, your body is still adjusting to the fact that you had just given birth, that you are putting your child in such harm or risk. And that makes me wonder, did she suffer from postpartum psychosis? Was there mental illness? Did she have some form of hallucination, schizophrenia that she's disconnected and dissociated from

true life and reality? There has to be something other than just pure evil. And yes, that could be the true reason for why she did those things. And she allowed the child's father to engage in this senseless, heartless act with this kid like it was a toy. But there has to be some other explanation for this behavior. I think you have an idea, Joe Scott Morgan, regarding an explanation. Yeah, I do. It's called methamphetamine. They were so interested in feeding this habit that they had allowed to develop in their own existence that it drew the attention away from this precious life that they were so fortunate to have that other people were deprived of all over this world. And they essentially took Sterling and treated him worse than a piece of

garbage they just left him laying there or sitting there in that chair you know people people dispense their garbage they didn't even do that they didn't have the decency to do that they were feeding this drug habit i saw one one one image that this male had put up on Facebook, and he was proclaiming, enjoying living the clean life. The hell does that even mean? What else do you see, Jessica? I see people that are in a neglectful situation that they have no interest but to feed their own desires and completely abandon this child, leave this child to not just dwindle and pass away, but to absolutely positively decay. You know, you're in the same structure as your

own child while maggots are developing on this child, Nancy. This is a horrible set of circumstances. The smell in the house alone would have just been nauseating. No wonder they closed the door in a separate room of the house from where they were living.ating. No wonder they closed the door in a separate room of the house from where they were living. I don't know. What were they doing? They're sitting around watching TV, using meth, eating. Yeah, I want to think about that. Shelby Lynn Erdman, investigative reporter. I know the tip line for anyone with information is 641-394-3121. What do we know about their lifestyle, if anything, Shelby? Really, it's just the bare bones of the case right now. We know that the medical examiner

said based on the condition of baby Sterling, that he was, it had been at least a week since he had been probably even checked on. One of the things that jumps out at me is one of the things I can't understand about this case as a whole is what prompted Zachary Cohn to call police at that point. We don't know what was happening in the home that after a week, and it could have even been longer, we don't know for sure, what would have even prompted these two people then to try and get help if that's in fact what they were doing. But what we do know about the case is that they are both in jail, that they are going to have a preliminary hearing,

and they're facing some very serious charges. Yeah, murder one, because this child was well below the fifth percentile in size and weight. That means, you know, 94, 93, well, no, no, 95, 96, 97% of children in the world his age way more than him. Okay. He was below the fifth percentile. Like if you say, oh, I scored in the 99th percentile on my test that means you made better than 99% of the people that took the test his weight and length was below the fifth percentile which means not at least 96% of the world's children at this age weigh more than him.

He was only 14 inches long. He was born at 5 pounds. He was only at 7 pounds, we think, at the time he was found. This is, you know, going on six months later. I don't know what the cause of death is going to be. It's saying neglect, but I guess he starved. I'm not sure exactly what they're going to say the actual cause of death is. We don't even know where the parents were found.

We don't know that they were even at home. Had they just left the baby there and left? But we do know, based on the evidence, Joe Scott Morgan, that they had the wherewithal to lie to police. Yeah, they did. They had the clarity of mind, at least in that moment of time, to fabricate a story. You know, and they're talking about that. Yeah, they just fed him within the last few hours prior to discovery. It's an empirical impossibility, you know, with the development,

just simply based upon the fact of the development of the larva left behind by the fly eggs, or left behind by the flies. And then you have all the other decompositional factors that I can guarantee you the stadium ease office in Iowa, who is very good, by the way, will have that all measured out very clearly. And, you know, just I don't know that people truly understand how horrible starvation and deprivation is. And, you know, essentially there's all kinds of things that go into this. There's a lethargy. There's weakness. You know, the child, you know, babies have a hard time keeping their head up anyway, you know, and, and that sort of thing, uh, not being able to, and that's why they had the child in the seat, you know, the kid could probably recline and be in the, in the, in the

seat and laid back this way. And, and, and, and so just lethargy, not being able to breathe, struggling to breathe, they go into an electrolyte imbalance because of dehydration. And then finally, what's going to happen? The child will actually seize. This is what happens in starvation cases and deprivation cases. The child will seize. It's not getting adequate nutrients, hydration, and the child will seize. It's a horrible death until finally the child goes into cardiac arrest.

And that's what happened in this particular case. Based upon cases I've worked that are similar to this over my years in the field. We are standing by and are on top of the case and will follow it as it heads to a preliminary hearing. Again, sometimes crime is difficult to process. But unless we confront it and grapple with it, how can we fight it? And we can't fight it here without our partners. And I want to thank our partner today on our program. It's LegalZoom.

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another sex predator scandal has cracked wide open. It is Corey Fellman, Hollywood star, that is now recirculating his claims of years ago that within Hollywood are child predators that nobody wants to expose. Now, listen to this interview he gave on The View with Barbara Walters. I'm saying that there are people that were the people that did this to both me and Corey that are still working. They're still out there and they're some of the richest, most powerful people in this business. And they do not want me saying what I'm saying right now. Are you saying that they're pedophiles? Yes.

And that they're still in this business? Yes. And that's what you were saying in your book. When you talk to parents, Corey, there are a lot of parents out here who want to put their kids in this business. Their kids are cute. They're great actors. What would you say to a parent who just has the best of intentions who's coming here with their child?

If you're saying that there's a lot of predators in this industry. It's a many-feathered bird, okay? Be careful what you wish for. That's what I'll tell you. You know, don't go into it with naivety. Don't go into it thinking that it's all roses and sunglasses. You're damaging an entire industry. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to.

I'm just trying to say that it's a very important, serious topic. That was Corey Fellman, and he referred to Corey Haim during his interview. And I heard at the end one of the ladies say, you, Corey, are damaging an entire industry. What was she talking about to Alan Duke? Well, that was Barbara Walters. And she's getting a lot of criticism today for this in hindsight. She was saying, you're slandering the whole industry. And that's not fair. And this is the point I think she was making. And that's that he was saying there were several executives and others

in Hollywood who were pedophiles and who had molested him and his friends. But he's not naming names. And because of that, it does damage the whole industry because he's doing this sort of like McCarthy did communism back in the 50s. He's saying, I got a list, but I'm not giving details or names. But now he says he's going to come forward if he can raise $10 million if you make your donations now. I want to talk about Corey Feldman's claims regarding Hollywood now. What exactly are his claims, Alan Duke? Well, he actually wrote this in his book, Choreography, years ago,

that when he was a child actor making these big movies, that he was molested and that his friends, including Corey Haim, were molested. But he doesn't name the names, And he says there were six of them. Now he's saying that one of them is still a very powerful Hollywood executive connected to a major studio. And he says it's throughout the entire industry, but he's not naming names. But he says he's ready to. And he says he's living in fear now. Joe Scott Morgan, you've investigated so many, many cases. I'm concerned that he is holding

back a list. Well, why at this juncture would you hold back a list of people of child predators? Why not give the list to the police and launch an investigation? What other purpose? Why would you hold back, withhold a list? There are tons of attorneys, Nancy, in L.A. that would be more than happy to come to his aid and begin to have a conversation with the prosecutors about this. If he's looking to make money, trust me, the money will come. But you got people out there that, according to him, are still actively engaged in this behavior. I have stood over the bodies of too many children that have died through abuse and neglect over the course of my career. And it makes my skin crawl to think that if he does have access to this information, why is he not turning it over to the authorities?

So that a resolution can come about. At least this thing can be interdicted at this moment in time. And it just, it leaves me baffled that you would throw this kind of thing out there before the public in the sight of everyone and that you know this information. Okay, you got the information? Come on, dude, put it out there. Let's talk about it. Well, there's another reason for it. There's another reason for it. Dr. Tiffany Sanders joining us, psychologist, is that if the predator is still there, what about the children that are being victimized right now? If you hold back that information, you're allowing essentially for more children to fall as victims. Absolutely, Nancy.

And you and I are mandated reporters. So if we know that someone is possibly being abused or harmed or neglected, it's a requirement for us to speak to the police, to tell them, to warn them about these individuals. So though he's not a licensed professional as you and I are, it's still sad to hear that he's not trying to speak up and actually give names to protect these individuals. It seems like there's some sort of self-interest going on for him, you know, to get this campaign for this movie off the ground. But think about the children as a mandated reporter. If I know that someone is potentially abusing a child and a child does not have a voice and cannot defend themselves, I am going to speak up, not just to protect my

license, but there's a moral reason to do so. There's a moral responsibility. And to speak to Corey's campaign, I can really commend him for his passion but it's misguided it's going in the wrong direction speak up there's no need to be quiet about this well i got a soft spot i've got a very soft spot for cory fellman because he was a star of one of my all-time favorite movies stand by me i want everything good for him i want everything to work out in the best way for him. And if these claims are true, you know, Godspeed. I think that in addition to him using his creative outlet in making a movie,

he must go forward to the authorities. Take a listen to what Corey Fellman says. My life has turned into utter chaos. You can probably tell by the sound of my voice. It's pretty ripped up because of the devastation of what I've been through the past few days. Feldman says. I had a near-death experience last night where I felt like I was almost going to be killed. Two trucks came speeding at me at the same time on a crosswalk. And then several of my band members decided to quit because they're afraid for their lives. I don't know what got into their heads. I don't know what they're afraid of all of a sudden, but they just left. I'm very alone, but I need to

protect myself, and I need to protect my family. I need additional security, and I need a legal team to help represent me so that I can fulfill this mission. What I'm proposing is a plan that I believe can literally change the entertainment system as we know it and I believe that I can also bring down potentially a pedophile ring that I've been aware of since I was a child right off the bat I can name six names one of them who is still very powerful today and a story that links all the way up to a studio it connects pedophilia to one of the major studios. I am very afraid to do this. It's not easy. I've been living in fear and been living with this my entire life. As most victims have, I've been made to feel awkward, misunderstood, and I've been degraded at great levels.

Rumors have been told, stories have been made up about me, and I've been insulted and degraded in ways that were unimaginable to me. All because they fear what I know as the truth. And I'm not alone. I know that there's thousands others that have experienced what I've experienced in the entertainment industry. I also know that there's peers of mine who know exactly what I'm talking about and know all the details, but have been afraid to come forward with their own truths. I am using this to draw a line in the sand, to say to the Hollywood community, we are better than this. I know that we can stand together as one. We can be united, and we can create an affront. Those good people out there, there's plenty of them that I've become friends with over the years.

They can help me right now. You guys can take my side and we can stand together. But additionally, not just the entertainment industry, the entire world, the entire planet can come together over this issue. Because our children are the most sacred things we have. Who could even dream of robbing an innocent child of their life experience? It's not fair and it must end. So I'm begging you to join me and let our voices be heard.

I've lived in shame and fear my entire life and so have millions of others. And now we have the ability to let our voices be heard and break the dam of silence. I propose to do this by making a film that will be the most honest and true depiction of child abuse ever portrayed by telling my own story in a very real way, in a very honest way, with no editing, no censorship, no studio behind it. I will make the film, I'll direct the film, I'll produce the film, and I will self-distribute it to guarantee that it gets a theatrical release with your donations. Additionally, it will help me buy the security and the legal team

that I need to protect my family until the project is released. And once it's done, I believe that we can revolutionize the film industry in a way that we can root out the evil and make it safe for our kids again. So please join me in this fight. I know that together we can stand strong. The time is now. I've had people on Twitter begging me to do this, and I need to tell you that with 30,000 new followers just in the last week, I know this is what everybody wants to know.

Everybody wants the answer. Who did this? Who's responsible? They all want the answer. And all these people taunt me and tease me and bully me on social media on a daily basis. Every day when I go on Twitter, I have to be confronted with this topic that I do not want to have to think about again. But every day when I'm trying to live my life and do other things,

go on with my tour that I've worked so hard for. I had to lose all of that for this. And I'm willing to walk away from all of it if I can make a difference. And I believe that I can with this idea. So please join me and help me in making our voices be heard and making a change

that can revolutionize the film industry, save millions of children's lives, and let the truth be told so that the people who have done this damage can come to their consequences they deserve. Justice will be served under God's name because this is about good and evil. At the end of the day, there is nothing more evil than people who want to take advantage of innocent children. Let's protect them together. God bless you. Alan Duke, he's, if these claims are true, he's up against a lot in Hollywood. I understand his whole band, all the band members quit once he came forward with this claim. It's going to be difficult. What lawyer is going to touch it with a 10-foot pole in Hollywood anyway? Yeah, you know, it's a very

dangerous thing for a lawyer to get involved with. The last time this happened, we had this pedophilia allegation made against major figures in Hollywood a few years ago in 2013. The lawyer ended up quitting after two months, paying a settlement to the alleged pedophiles, the defendants in that, and putting out a statement saying if he had known these were false allegations, he would have gotten involved in it. So you've got to be very careful because a lawyer has liability if he gets involved with this and it turns out that it is not substantiated. You know, though, I don't want to throw Corey Feldman in the same pot with that guy.

That guy's a convicted felon that was claiming that. Well, he's in prison right now. Yeah, I know. Michael Egan is in prison. My point is, what is that? That's just like saying, oh, a woman claims she was raped 10 years ago and she really wasn't. I mean, what does that have to do with this now? Nothing.

Well, first of all, there's the other thing about in Hollywood is these powerful executives have very powerful, smart, aggressive lawyers. And as what happened in the last case, they just tore up that last lawyer who defended. Now, there are some very brave lawyers here. You know them. I mean, there's Gloria Allred. She is fearless. But where is she? Why isn't she or somebody else standing up next to Corey? Well, for one thing, before you can get a lawyer on board, you actually have to name who your attacker is to start with. But before I, you know, throw out the baby with the bathwater, we're standing by to see what develops in the claims by Hollywood star Corey Fellman. Claims that there are child predators in the highest

echelons of Hollywood strata. Good luck, Corey. Big thank you to our sponsor who makes our program possible. And you know what? It's really all about Fat Boy, a.k.a. Street Name Nitro. You know how much I love that crazy dog and the cat too. But I'm always on the lookout for fun. You can't really have a lot of fun with a cat. They're more like for petting, for trying to not tear up your clothes and your furniture.

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I had no idea my husband was looking for somebody else. I had no idea. As I was at home taking care of the children. He was out philandering. And not only is she younger than me, she's loaded. She's the daughter of a billionaire. How can I ever compete with that? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and I guess that's what the wife of the so-called hot felon is saying this morning. I had no idea he was looking for someone else. Why is everybody all into the so-called hot felon Jeremy Meeks? He's cheated on and left his wife, who is giving birth and raising their children. He is a felon. He's got a felony criminal record, and he has a tattoo on his face. What is appealing about that? With me, Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter for RadarOnline.com.

Also, and boy, do we need a shrink today. Dr. Tiffany Sanders, psychologist, joining us. First, Alexis, let me understand all the facts before I go to the shrink, Dr. Tiffany Sanders. Help me out, Alexis. Just start at the beginning. So, the beginning is when he became famous. His mugshot was posted online. Somebody saw it.

He's gorgeous. He has these piercing eyes. He has these beautiful cheekbones. And so the picture of him went viral. Hot felon. Oh, you just think, oh, felon, cute guy, whatever. You don't know. You know what his felony was for?

He was a gang member with possession of a gun. And he even admitted, yeah, you know what? Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. Who said, oh, he's a cute guy? wait a minute who said oh he's a cute guy i never said oh he's a cute guy because when i saw the word felon attached to his mugshot i don't care how you want to put perfume on the pig and gussy it up it's a mugshot and a mugshot it's not cute to me alexis therese chuck you have a, right? Do you want the photo he's remembered for to be his mugshot?

This is what people do in this day and age. Is that a yes or no, Alexis? No. Okay. Why? Why? Do you want your son? And hopefully one day your daughter. I'm pushing for a baby sister here. Do you want your son dating a felon? Do you? No. Huh?

Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? This mom, his mom, decided to take advantage of his fame and she even set up a GoFundMe page so people could give them money to help pay for all his legal troubles. His legal troubles. He's got bigger troubles than legal troubles. Okay, I got y'all track with all the ranting. Start at the beginning. So he's arrested for gang activity and possession of a firearm.

He's booked. All right, take it from there how did he get famous that's what i don't understand the police department posts their mugshots online people saw it and thought that he was gorgeous so it went viral everybody started looking at him he got he earned the nickname the hot felon because it looked like a calvin klein underwear model ad his his picture because he's so handsome. I think he's handsome. Sorry. Okay.

I'm sorry, too, to hear you say that. And in about, let's say, your son, in about 15 years, I'll get back with you on this. We'll find out if your son, God forbid, has a record. I mean, even jaywalking, I'm on him like a cheap suit. I'm going to remind you of this, okay? So let me go to Dr. Tiffany Sanders, psychologist, joining us. You know, Dr. Tiffany, typically I'm talking to you about killers, murderers, serial killers, spree killers, child predators, the works.

So can I just take a tiny break from that and talk to you about the so-called hot felon? I'm not going to call him the hot felon because he's not hot to me. To me, he's a felon. I don't want him. I don't want anything to do with him. And I certainly don't want him busting up marriages. I mean, have you seen the wife? The wife is gorgeous.

She's beautiful. Plus, she is the mother of three. She just broke down in tears on, it was a Brit talk show this morning with Ben Shepard and Amanda Holden. Broke down confessing she still misses her husband of eight years. How can that be, Dr. Tiffany? Why would she still miss him? Oh, wait, hold on, Dr. Tiffany.

Jackie, always the jaded one, is holding up a big sign. But she ain't rich. She's gorgeous, but she ain't rich. Okay, true. How can the wife still miss him, Dr. Tiffany? She made a commitment to him. She made a commitment to love, to honor, to cherish him. They have three beautiful kids. He is a handsome man. He has great bone structure. He has these piercing blue eyes. I mean, he's gorgeous. He's got tattoos all over his neck,

crawling up behind his ear. I don't want to wake... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Dr. Tiffany, I do not want to wake up to a neck and an ear covered in tattoos. I don't want to see that first thing in the morning. Okay? Don't want to see it. You know, I think to each his own.

And for her, you know, he was that rough guy. He could probably protect us. But unfortunately, he was a gang member. He could probably protect us. But unfortunately, he was a gang member. He is a gang member. But that one mugshot went viral. And the difficult thing is that she can't compete with this heiress. This heiress is a daughter of a billionaire. And so her come up is not as great as this other woman's. And so he really, to me, is a leech. And it's hard for her to disconnect that he's a leech now because she still sees him as the father of her children and her husband. And that's very difficult to erase

after you've committed yourself and you've been married and you had children with this man. Oh, dear Lord in heaven. Alexis Tereshchuk, I hope you got your iPad with you because right now I'm looking at a picture. Let me hold this up to the studio. Look, Jackie, look, look, guys, that's him with the new girlfriend. Okay. I don't even know what this is. It looks like she has on nothing except she's got on like, I guess they're dressed up in some weird style 2017 of what they think an American Indian might have looked like. Oh, it's an ad campaign. Thank you, Jackie. here he is publicly parading his romance with iris chloe is they this is not an ad campaign jackie thank you for the false information

as they enjoy carnival during a sunny barbados holiday okay now she's writing something else fine you just keep scribbling she has on nothing but it looks like a beaded thong and like feathers around her head. And he has on feathers like a mohawk and a pair of underwear. And they're kissing. I'm just wondering, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, when his wife sees that, if she's looking, and I'm sure she used for her company Top Shot. Okay, know-it-all. Nobody likes to know-it-all, Jackie.

Just FYI. Okay, it was an ad campaign. So, you know the wife doesn't want to look. Why do we look? Why do we look at things we know are going to hurt us? Because sometimes we have this false thinking that if I just see it, if I feel the pain, that it will be so much that it will turn me off

from wanting to love him. And that's just not how it works. You know, another thing is curiosity. Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back. Alexis Torres-Chuck, have you ever had, before you met your awesome husband, you should have seen him when you were in the hospital and you had that collapsed lung and he was out there in the waiting room. You hit pay dirt. Don't tell him I said that because I always tell him he married up, but you really hit pay dirt with that one. And that's what you need in a husband. There's a good looking man is like a bus. Another one will come along, roll up in about

15 minutes. That's not what you need. You need a man, not that your husband's not good looking because he is, but a man that's there for you. A man that is sitting out there in the waiting room waiting for you to open your eyes so he can rush in there and be by your side. That is what marriage to me, that's what marriage is all about. It's somebody that you love and trust and they're there through thick or thin. Everything else is just gravy. It's just icing on the cake. So why?

Back to the question. Have you ever had a bad boyfriend, Alexis? Sure, a bad boyfriend, but never a felon. Not that you know of. Why is it, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, that people want bad guys? Why do you want one? You know, many of us want one. I used to say I wanted an educated. Don't ask me why. I was young. I was dumb. Thankfully, I got to feel an educated husband. But what we like about it is the thought that that person can protect us. They're strong. If they're on the street, they can defend our honor. And so we walk around with these theories that this is what a good guy looks like. And that's not correct. A good guy could be an accountant. A good guy can be a lawyer or a custodian. And what she fell in love with was a felon.

And he's willing to break the law, and he's willing to break the marriage law, the vow. So she really had sort of information ahead of time to know that this may not be the type of man you want to marry, but she turned a blind eye because she was in love, or what I feel like is she was in lust with his good looks. I was basically looking for somebody really big that could lift things. And David is. And so he fit all my criteria. Alexis, isn't it true that he has a tattoo of a teardrop on his face coming out of his eye? And that is a gang symbol. I'm sure the prosecutor, you know that,

but that is known as a gang symbol. I learned when I was prosecuting that typically it means that you have killed somebody, that you have killed someone or spent time in prison. That is typically what that means. It can acknowledge the loss of family or fellow gang member, but typically the meaning is you've killed somebody or you've done time behind bars. Now, don't you know this young heiress's family is just so proud that she has landed the so-called hot felon?

Can we just talk about that for a minute, Alexis Tereschuk? Who is she? Chloe Green is the heiress of Topshop, the Topshop fortune. Now, you may not be familiar with that line because it has just come to the United States. It's a British line, but it is international. Her father is a billionaire. Very cutting-edge clothes and very expensive clothes. Top models.

Kate Voss has modeled for them. They have very, very expensive clothes. And she has fallen head over heels in love with the hot felon. And she has given him pretty much everything that he could ever imagine. Can I tell you a little personal story? Two weeks ago, I got two. Alexis, you know I live for personal stories. Go ahead.

I got two text messages within an hour of each other of my friends who had seen Hot Felon in his Ferrari with his kids here in Los Angeles. One was at a falafel place. It was my friend's husband. And he said he saw him. He was in the Ferrari. His kids were there. And another was a girlfriend of mine who was out in Malibu and sent me a picture she said look at this I said who is that she said that's a hot felon I said my god what are you doing she said I just saw him with all of his kids and and

and her son was with her she took a picture with him I was like you just took a picture with a man who spent nine years in prison but okay my husband saw him too Alexis did he really yeah I you know David travels all the time for work. He has a job, a J-O-B hot felon. My husband works for a living. Yeah. Not like you. Not mooching off your girlfriend.

But he has a job, and he was traveling out of town, and he walked through some hotel lobby. It had to be New York or California. And he saw a hot felon. Okay, I know he's a model Jackie Jackie's trying to defend him okay now what about the family I'm looking at a picture right now of the so-called Hot Felon Jeremy Meeks gazing into the eyes of his heiress girlfriend Chloe Green and her mother Tina gives him the so-called seal of approval at a star-studded charity bash.

They're in tons of pictures together. Can you help me understand that, Dr. Tiffany Sanders? Because whenever, I think I know what's happening, whenever one of my children are making a bad decision, sometimes, I would say about 60% of the time, I go, okay, if you don't want to go to soccer practice, that's okay. It only took me a year and a picture of you with Hope Solo to get you into the soccer league. But if you don't want to go to practice, that's okay. I'm sure you'll find something to do after they kick you out. No problem.

And I'll just let them ruminate for a while. But if you throw too much of a fit, they'll do the reverse, right? So what do you think about the mom in all these pictures? She's all, like, snugged up with them. You know, it's really interesting because you typically want the best for your children. You want them to meet, marry, date honorable people, those who would, you know, rub shoulders with other honorable people. And so to see her mom give this proverbial okay to this

relationship and to be all snug and hugged up with them, you know, it speaks to her values as well. You know, yes, they're from a very wealthy family. They have this amazing clothing line, but that doesn't mean that you have good core values, good core family values. And you don't know how people earn their money. Yes, they may make this great clothing line, but there's always sometimes backhanded things that people do. So I will question, you know, sort of the values, the belief system of this family, that they're parading him around. He's covered in tattoos from head to toe. And that's okay. I have a tattoo. I don't have a problem with tattoos, but these are gang tattoos, a teardrop. So they are giving pretty much an okay to this lifestyle. And it's really a bad thing to communicate to the world and to

people that may be looking up to you. Okay. Actually, I'm okay with tattoos too. I don't want one. And I don't want the children to have one until they're old enough to make a decision that it's something they want to live with forever and ever. What I don't like about his tattoo is that they're gang symbols, and I do not want to see that. Okay, don't want to see it. And also, I've got to tell you something. Some of the best witnesses I ever put on the stand, and I believed them, and I counted on them and relied on them,

and we became actually very, very good friends, and are friends to this day. We're convicted felons. I mean, you know, you don't go to the country club to catch a dope dealer, okay? That's not who you're gonna, that's not who your witnesses are. But I found them, many of them, to be some of the most reliable people I've ever met. People end up in jail for a lot of different reasons. And it really is true that you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people.

And you get thrown in the pot along with them. That can happen. It's true. I know it's hard for you to believe I'm saying it, but it can happen. So this is not about him really. My disdain is not about him having a record. A lot of people have a record. It's not about his tattoos, except they're gang-related. It's about the fact that he was married with children

and dumped his beautiful but poor wife for a younger model that happens to be an heiress to a billion-dollar fortune. Okay, I keep hearing that Alan Duke is chomping at the bit. Go ahead, Alan. Hit me. Well, there's a new one out there for us guys. I mean, you ladies have had the hot felon. Now we've got Mugshot Bay. Morella Ponce is the new hot female felon,

20 years old, arrested recently in Fresno, California after police stopped her car. She had a loaded gun, a purple gun that had seven bullets in the magazine, and she had her child with her. she's charged with carrying a concealed firearm did you say a purple gun i think i saw a picture of it a purple gun she had it's a stolen firearm not many of those floating around yeah and she they say she's part of the tiny rascal gang but look at her picture nancy Nancy. See her tattoo? She's got a... If I'm going to be in a gang, it's not going to be the tiny rascal gang.

Well, if you're going to fall in... It's going to be like the big bad Rottweiler gang, something like that. If you're going to fall in love... If a man's going to fall in love with a woman who's a gang member, the tiny rascal gang

is probably good. Okay. Because if you have children, she's got a rose tattoo on her neck and across her chest, love is pain, pain is pleasure.

Now, what guy doesn't want to hear that? And with that, Nancy Grace, Prime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.