Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Delphi murders update & Scary Spice Mel B's high living

Episode Date: July 18, 2017

Investigators trying to find the killer of two girls in Delphi, Indiana, release a suspect sketch based on witness descriptions. Lawyer Richard Herman & journalist Sean Walsh discuss the murder probe with Nancy Grace. A judge orders former Spice Girl Mel B to cut back on her big spending so she can pay spousal support to the ex-husband she accuses of abusing her. Herman, Welsh & Grace talk about that and more in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. A sketch of the man they say is responsible for the murder of Abby Williams and Libby German. The reason they even have this sketch in the first place is because people have come forward with tips and information. You interview all those people and you come up with common themes on hair, facial hair, eyes, skin tone, clothing. Police described the man as a white male between 5'6 and 5'10,

weighing from 180 to 220 pounds with reddish brown hair. We're still getting anywhere from 5 to 10 tips a day. We're still getting emails, so this case is not dried up. It's not a cold case. This case is still very active. Two little girls go for a walk. They go for a hike together one afternoon. They've been best friends for years in a small, small community like the one I grew up in, where as far as you can see, there's soybeans and tall pine trees.

No crime, right? That evening around dinner time, the red bells of alarm start going off in everybody's head when the two girls don't come home. I'm talking, of course, about the two little girls out of Delphi. The little girls who actually took pictures of each other as they walked across a trestle bridge. They were never seen alive again. I'm talking about Liberty German and Abigail Williams in Delphi, Indiana. The last known photo of them that places them in the location of their kidnap and murder

was taken by them. You know how tweens, especially tween girls, love to selfie and post it. One took a picture of the other walking across that trestle bridge. That was the last knowledge of the two of them being alive. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and in the last hours, more developments unfold in the search for the killer of these two little girls in the middle of a town where I don't even know if they've had a homicide in the last 10 years. Delphi. Joining me is crack reporter for the Daily Mail at DailyMail.com. Sean Walsh, also with me. Federal trial lawyer, defense attorney Richard Herman, currently practicing out of Vegas, but practices all across the country. Kind of like a hired gun.

I want to go first to you, Sean. We now have a composite. And I see where some of this is coming from. In the composite that was released on your website, dailymail.com, as ours as well, Crime Online. I see where they're getting some of this, Sean, because the hat, they've got him in kind of like a newsboy's hat. You can see that. It looks brown to me in the photo I've always said I thought but I couldn't confirm from the naked eye that he had at least a mustache and a beard or a beard but the way you guys have we see in

the composite it's kind of like I don't know what you call that it's where a mustache kind of goes down the side either side of your lips and kind of turns into a little, almost like a goatee. And he's wearing, in the picture, it looks to me like a double sweatshirt, like a jacket possibly over a sweatshirt. Sean Walsh, DailyMail.com. Tell me the latest in the search for the killer of Liberty and Abigail. Nancy, look, we received this composite of the suspect in the case. I mean, we haven't heard anything since February when we got that grainy image of this person that was captured on the girl's social media. And what it looks like to your description is the man has a goatee, he was wearing a cap, he has bushy hair, and it looks like he has on some sort of hoodie.

Police aren't giving any more details, though. They're not saying who the witness was that saw the man. They're keeping that all confidential. they're not saying who the witness was that saw the man they're keeping that all confidential they're just saying you know sean i gotta back you up just a moment because you're you're giving me so much factual evidence that we're just hearing it's like drinking out of a fire hydrant it's too much too fast first of, you said the composite came from witnesses. What witness? Number one, who could it be? Number two, you stated the photo taken by the girls of this guy on the very same bridge where they're taking pictures of each other during their hike. Very innocently strolling along. They're taking pictures. This photo of this guy was taken by one of the murdered girls.

And I'm talking about tweens. These two little girls, I mean, they're precious. They're just a couple of years older than my little girl, my little Lucy and my twin John David. So let's go back to witness. Sean, once you say witness, can you elaborate on that at all? So the Carroll County Sheriff said the witness saw the man walking near Delphi about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis, but only recently met with an FBI sketch artist to provide the facial details for the rendering that was released. Now, they're

not saying where the witness saw the unidentified man, but they're saying around the time the girls were killed. And that matches up. Let me go to you, Richard Harmon. Now, I know you're thinking of a million ways to shoot down this witness, to shoot down this composite. One thing is the delay in time. All right?

That's a problem if it's true that police are just show or just getting the composite sketch from the witness depending on who the witness is and where they were they could have been influenced by the picture i mean there's a million ways if this ever goes to trial that a trial trial lawyer, a defense lawyer like herself, a good one, can attack the composite drawing. You understand? Yeah, Nancy, if this case came to your desk as a prosecutor, you'd be losing your mind by now. This happened in February. The girls went missing, and the next day they were found dead. I don't even believe they have a witness or a credible witness. I think they may have used some filtering technology on the grainy picture to try to get it a little better.

But, you know, law enforcement, it looks to me like they are totally lost on this case. They have nothing. You said they may not have had a double murder in 10 years. I don't think they're ready for this. I don't think they can handle it. How do they not have more? By now, it's almost August. This killing took place in February. You would think that they would have more developments,

more leads, and provide more information to the public instead of keeping it tight to the vest. I think it's tight to the vest because they are lost. They have nothing here. Sadly. Now, Richard, everything you're saying, everything you're saying, I'm not arguing with you. I'm taking a different slant on it, though. Sean Waltz with me, Richard Herman with me. Sean, let's analyze what Richard said. And I can't argue that he's wrong.

But, but what he's saying, what has happened here may be very understandable once we know all the facts. The girls were out there by themselves. We don't know of any other witnesses. For all I know, it's taken this long for police to develop a witness. And no, I do not believe that the police have used some kind of filter and made up a witness. I don't believe that at all. I think that somewhere somebody saw this guy walking in or walking out of the park and didn't put two and two together. Or Sean Walsh, DailyMail.com, they may have seen him somewhere else

and said, whoa, that looks like the guy in that picture. I mean, it could be a myriad of possibilities as to why we're just getting this sketch. So instead of attacking police for just finding the witness or just releasing the sketch, maybe we can figure out what happened. All right, I don't think they're lying, Sean Walsh. I think there is a witness to this guy. Don't know where or when, though. Nancy, I agree. And look, if you look at it this way, this isn't like two kids that went missing on the streets of New York or Dallas or Atlanta where there's security cameras everywhere. They were on a hiking trail where there aren't security cameras. And police only have to work

with what they got from the girls' cell phones. Now, in doing that, I believe that there is a witness that they were able to match up because if you remember, the cell phone image was very, very grainy. It wasn't a clear image. It didn't show the person's face. And this composite that they've released is very, very detailed. It depicts a white man with a prominent nose and goatee who's wearing a cap and what appears to be a hooded sweater. Police said the suspect

has reddish brown hair. He stands between five foot six and five foot seven and weighs between 180 and 220 pounds. Now police have asked the public to examine the image, particularly the man's facial features, and contact them with any information they might have. So if police didn't know who this was and that they were making this up, they wouldn't be telling people to really examine the facial features because clearly the witness gave them a great description of who this person potentially is. And the way you work with a sketch artist, I mean, I don't know if you've done that, Sean Walsh, or been privy to it. I have.

And, you know, Richard Harmon, it reminds me of a case I tried. One of the last ones I tried before I left prosecuting went to Court TV to launch my show with Johnny Cochran, God rest his soul. And it was a killer, of course. And as it turned out, the Jane Doe, we never could identify his last murder victim. But amazingly, a sketch artist, a lady sketch artist, had tried her best to recreate the face from the remains. It was very difficult. And I didn't put a whole lot of stock into it, not because of her talent,

but because there wasn't much left of her. But then, guess who I found, Richard Herman? The killer's ex-girlfriend. I got the sketch artist to draw a picture of the killer's ex-girlfriend, and in closing arguments, I held it up to the jury and said,

who would have killed this woman other than the man that was spurned by this woman? And they were almost identical. It was incredible. And when you look at this sketch that Sean Walsh from Daily Mail is talking about, it's very detailed. And Richard, when you sit there with a sketch artist and you watch them, they're working with the witness and they'll say, oh no, the nose needs to be wider. No, the nose needs to be thinner. The eyes need to be more hooded. The eyebrows this, the beard this,

and they really get it as close as possible to the witness's recollection, what they are seeing, what the witness is seeing in their mind's eye. It's really incredible to watch, Richard. No, it's incredible. And the sketch artists are brilliant. However, Nancy, if they had this witness, why didn't it come out in February or March or April? You think law enforcement would put this sketch up as quickly as possible? Five months go by, and now for the first time we see a sketch of someone who they claim is the person? I mean, I would have a field day on the course of examination on this witness. Five months go by, and what were the other factors?

And you know what I would say if I were the judge, if I got the right objection, of course, I'd say sustained, repetitive. Here it is with Richard Herman. Second verse, same as the first. Yes, I know it's been several months. not discuss where the witness saw this man who authorities now consider to be the only suspect the main suspect in the murders of 14 year old liberty and 13 year old abigail he said the witness saw the man around the time the girls were killed now that's vague but to me that would mean Sean Walsh coming on or leaving that bridge or in that area, you know, an hour or two before or an hour or two after Sean. Well, authorities are saying, Nancy, that the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have

blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color. And they're also saying that what's happened here is they believe fear has played a part, that the person may not have come forward sooner with a description because of fear. You've got to remember this person that they're seeking has actually murdered two young girls. So we're not dealing with an innocent party here. We're dealing with someone who is capable of murder. Next question, do we have any idea whether he raped them or assaulted them sexually in any way? Because if there is DNA, that's a whole different can of worms. Because if they've got DNA, certainly they've compared it to the DNA database, right? Certainly they've called on aphids and codas for fingerprints. Wouldn't you think, Sean, if there

are any to be had? Absolutely. But interestingly, in this case, authorities aren't giving away any details around the nature of the crime, other than these two young girls were murdered. So we don't know what the perpetrator did to them. All we know is, sadly, that these two young girls are dead.

Think about it, Sean. Use that noggin. Come on. He sees two girls on a bridge. Why else would he abduct them and murder them if not for some type of a sex assault? And another thing, hold on, Sean. Give Richard Herman this information, of course.

He'll give him the information, then I'll turn it into bullets to shoot it right back at us. But remember, one of the girls with a cell phone actually recorded the perp's, the killer's voice as well, Sean. She did, which is going to make it a lot easier when this goes to trial and they're looking for a positive identification to say that this was the person who was there on that trail and who murdered those two girls.

So Richard Herman, if and when they arrest somebody, there's no way that he can refuse to be part of a lineup, refuse to give a voice identification sample. He cannot refuse pursuant to a warrant, of course, a search warrant, to give a DNA sample, which is really just, you know, a buccal swab from his mouth. He cannot refuse that. He has to do it if there is a legitimate warrant.

So what do you think about that, Herman? I say that you're right. He has to do that. And hopefully they got DNA. They had to have gotten DNA off these girls. And this way, when they get the swab of the people they believe may have been involved in this, hopefully it'll match up. It was hard for me to believe that this is a one shot deal for this particular assailant. You know, you got to believe maybe this has been done before.

Not in the system, though. Didn't come up with the DNA that they did get at the scene. So, you know, the risk of getting the wrong person pulled in, arrested on this case, I think is high when you see the sketch five months after the incident took place. What happened? I don't believe the person was afraid because this person did murders. I don't believe that. If someone saw a murder or saw someone abduct people, they're going to call the police or they're going to call Nancy Grace.

Those are one of the two first calls you make. Well, unless there's some reason they don't want anything to do with the police. Oh, that's true too. What if it's a vagrant? What if it's somebody that was committing a crime? What if it's somebody out having having a joint and they just don't want to get involved hold on 1-844-459-5786 844-459-5786 844-459-5786 that's the toll-free number for anyone that has information on these two horrific murders. To me, this sketch is a big breakthrough because it's incredibly detailed. Question, let me throw to either one of you guys, the cell phone. The cell phone that was recording to the very end, I think one of the little girls had in her pocket, and she was audio recording him, and the perp said, quote, down the hill. I'm wondering, what did he touch other than the girls themselves? How were they murdered? Were they strangled? Is there touch DNA? Did he shoot them?

What about the caliber? Have they done a ballistic search to compare it to other guns? Did he shoot them? What about the caliber? Have they done a ballistic search to compare it to other guns? Did he use a knife? If so, is there DNA? Did he molest them? Is there DNA from that? I mean, there's so many forensic questions. Let me ask you this, Sean Walsh, why are they keeping all this secret? I mean, what's the point? Well, that's what puzzles us. I mean, you'd think they would be out there on the front foot each day and every day since that crime, giving as much information as they can so that the public can come forward

and someone can say, I know who did this. It was this person, and police can make an arrest. We've got to remember, the sketch is the first new information released by authorities about the suspect since late February. All they distributed before were the two grainy images of the man walking along an old railroad bridge the girls had visited

while hiking. They also released the audio, to your point, of the male saying down the hill, and this evidence was recorded on Liberty German's cell phone. Now, police have hailed her as a hero for recording this potentially crucial evidence, but it still remains what else happened there.

And, you know, by releasing that information, maybe someone else out there will know more and can come forward and identify this person so police can make an arrest. What do you make of the fact that... And, Nancy, hopefully the recording is sufficient enough so they can get a voice exemplar also. So

between that and DNA, they'll get the right person. Not a sketch released five months after the incident where credibility is a huge problem. You know what? I would love, really love to shoot you down in court, but that's just not going to happen. I'm just going

to have to do it right here on my new home. Sirius XM. I'm proud to be there. Here and fight with you, Richard Herman. July 22nd on Oxygen, the new network for crime. My name is Kelly Sigler. I was a prosecutor for over 20 years.

From the creator of Law & Order comes the hit true crime series, Cold Justice. There are so many cold cases out there that still need to be solved every saturday follow kelly as she takes real cases from cold to closed what you will always see on cold justice is real to get the guilty person put away there's not a better feeling in the whole world if you're in law enforcement cold justice returns july 22nd at 8 7 central and oxygen the new network for crime and now we are heading from Delphi to Hollywood.

Okay, what a difference. Let me tell you, I learned all about Hollywood when I was out there doing my stint on Dancing with the Stars. Oh my stars. I would practice eight to ten hours a day and come home and my feet would actually be bleeding and the twins and my husband would be there and they go oh let's go out and I'd fall asleep in my clothes with the shoes still on be so tired but I can tell you this about Hollywood everybody's perfect all the women are tall with extensions all up down their back and they're all skinny and I mean I've never seen anything like it they also spend a lot of money out there I know that's stereotypical which is wrong I know that but I mean the number of imported cars the mansions the uh let me just say, cement ponds, Richard Harmon.

Now, I'm not going to throw that to Sean Walsh because he's Australian. But, I mean, they live high on the hog, let me just tell you, in Hollywood. And it's come back to bite Spice Girl, Mel B, in the neck. Can you at least back me up on this? The lifestyles in Hollywood, Herman? Right. The lifestyles in Hollywood are off the charts, and it's really hard for the normal person to understand and appreciate how they go about their daily living. And when you go into a matrimonial proceeding and the judge has to take into account the style with which the parties are living and then base an

award on that it can blow your mind and we look at melby here okay i don't know what you just said uh you're talking lawyer talk okay we're not in court richard you're not in front of a federal judge spouting out legal terms all right let's get right down to it, Sean. SeanWalshDailyMail.com. Mel B, that's Scary Spice, right? Yes, that's correct. And isn't she like a judge on, what's the show she's a judge on? Mel B was on America's Got Talent. She replaced Sharon Osbourne.

Oh, my twins love that. Yes, yes, the twins are like crazy about that show. Mel B, number one, married a guy named Stephen Belafonte. All right. So I thought for sure this is Harry Belafonte, the great musician's son. Oh, no. Uh-uh. No.

This guy's a total poser. He took the last name Belafonte. Okay. Why would he do that unless he wanted people to think he was related to harry bella fonti can you tell me that sean walsh can we just start with that in addition to him asking for what a hundred thousand dollars a month from mel b he needs to go get a job sean he really needs to get a job i mean this is a guy whose real name is Stephen Stansbury. I mean, no relation to Harry Belafonte at all. He says he's a Hollywood producer and a director,

but he's got a very interesting past. I mean, this is someone who actually has a history of abuse allegations and in 2003 was found guilty of assaulting an ex-girlfriend's mother. For a moment it sounded like something somebody would put on a dating website. I've got an interesting past. But what you mean by that is bad stuff, right? It's bad stuff. I mean, this is a guy with a very interesting past, as I said.

And I tell you, he was charged back in 2003 and found guilty of abusing an ex-girlfriend who was the mother of one of his children. And he completed a one-year... You're going too fast. I'm soaking this in like a sponge. Now, what did you say about Mel B's husband? What? In 2003, he was found guilty of spousal abuse

when he abused the mother of his child. What happened from there was he had to go and complete a spousal abuse program for a year. And Mel B is now saying... I knew I didn't like him. Well, Mel B is saying that in 2014 he abused her too. I knew I did not like him. I mean, Mel was granted a temporary restraining order against her ex on April 3rd

after accusing him of physically and emotionally abusing her. She says that she was in fear for her life. Are you talking about Belafonte? I am. I am. We should call him Stephen Sandsbury. That's his real name. Can we break this down? You're telling me he was already convicted of abusing

his last, I guess, girlfriend slash wife, the mother of his other child. Is that what you told me? That is correct. In 2003. And I wonder if Mel B knew this when she hooked up with this guy. She knew. Oh, okay.

Right there. Richard Harmon. Why? Where does he get the nerve to go in front of a judge and ask for all this money? What did he ask for? $100,000 a month. What did he ask for, $100,000 a month? What did he ask for? Yeah, he told the judge, we live a high-cotton lifestyle here, Judge, and I'm used to this.

Thanks to his wife working her fingers to the bone. Well, she blew a multi-million pound fortune over the last 10 years, and he needs money, at least now temporarily for food housing and other issues so the judge awarded him 40 000 what other issues i'm looking at a picture of him right now richard herman he looks like a fine healthy young man to me he's walking along smiling for the cameras and there's mel b she. She's got a big Band-Aid on her face. Wonder where that's from. Anyway, but why can't he go get a job?

Why can't he support himself? Why does he have to mooch off his wife? Well, I think he was acting as her manager. And I think they had a sordid history there with the nanny, the three of them. Wait a minute. I think I'm losing my breath. Wait a minute. You're giving me a chest pain.

Wait a minute. Hold on. $40,000 and $100,000 for his lawyer? Her manager. Wait a minute. Her manager. What? Managing her checking account?

What is he managing? What is he managing? Look, it's extraordinary. Here the two of them are spending $51,000 a month on average. Now, let's just put this into context, Nancy. The U.S. median household income is $55,775 per year, and those two are spending $51,000 per month. And they're not even able to pay their tax bills.

The judge slammed that they still owe tax money from last year. The judge is like, what is going on with you two? Can somebody tell me what they're spending their money on? Hey, if he's her manager, why isn't he paying the tax bill, Richard Harmon? You know, when the woman does this it's okay but if oh right well he needs to manage the accountant he's up in arms don't even start that don't start that with me don't even try the whole reverse discrimination statute she's working her rear end off did you know not only is she on let let's see, what did you tell me? America's Got Talent in the

U.S.? Is that the she's on the X Factor or has been on the X Factor in Britain. She's doing that too. This woman's got two jobs and flying back and forth trying to support this poser, Bella Fonte, my rear end. What did you say

his name is? What's his real name? Stephen Stansbury. I think that's what we should call him, Stephen Stansbury. It's like all the Rockefellers. No, I like saying Belafonte. Nancy, I've got to share with you and your listeners, like the amount of money that these people say they need is ludicrous, right? Can I take you through a shopping list of what they spend their money on each month? Please do.

Yes. Okay, so Mel B claims she needs $20,000 a month in childcare, $5,000 a month in groceries and household supplies. She needs another $4,493. She's not familiar with me cooking with my crock pot. Okay? No, she needs to learn some lessons. You've seen my crock pot, Sean Walsh.

You know I mean business. Okay, go ahead. I remember. I think I have a photo of you putting my head in your crock pot. Yeah, I do. Okay, go ahead. We did not serve that for dinner, I can tell you that much. Go ahead.

They have, they spend, she spends $4,493 a month on eating out and $1,313 a month on movies, shows, theme parks, etc. Now, the court said they do not find these expenses credible or reasonable, but then he has his own expenses. He contends he needs $2,300 per month for groceries and household supplies, $750 for telephone, cell phone, and email. Clearly, he doesn't know how to bundle his phone, internet, and cell phone. And then he needs another $2,000 a month for clothing. And then he needs $3,000 for entertainment, gifts, and vacation. Now, I doubt the average American's family spends $3,000 a year

on entertainment, gifts, and vacations, let alone per month. Now, the court said they also don't find his expenses credible or reasonable. So the judge called out both of them. Let me just tell you all something the other night. I had been taking care of the twins all day. I had been working. I had been taking care of the twins all day. I had been working. I had a book deadline.

I was trying to work on a project for a Hallmark movie. I was working like a maniac. And at the same time, I cooked dinner. And then David, he's still alive. I haven't killed him yet. He comes walking in, cool breeze. He's all still all still like dressed up from the time when he left that morning he goes hey let's go out tonight i just wanted to just slap him right in the face of course i didn't do it because i'm against violence but my little hand was just tingling

i'm like we are not going out and spending $150 on something. I don't really even know what they put in it. We are eating from the crock pot. See, Nancy, that $150 would have been an appetizer in the Bella Fonte Mel Brown house. How's she put up with him this long? I don't know. Okay, so where does it stand right now? What's happening?

He wants like $100,000 a month or some crazy, crazy number, and the judge gives him what, Sean Walsh? I mean, it's extraordinary. The judge said that he didn't understand why both parties don't reduce their monthly expenses by living in their former marital home in West Hollywood. Now that would be perfect for both of them. Wait, what? Neither one are living in the home?

They're both going to have a rental? Yeah, let's just go into rentals. Oh, that's a crime. That is a crime. Here's the interesting part, though. The court ordered that Mel B pay him $40,000 a month, and it's to be backdated to May 12, where she also has to pay $100,000 in legal

fees for him and $40,000 in forensic accounting fees. And she's turned around and she said, no, I'm sorry, I really shouldn't have to pay someone who I'm accusing of domestic abuse, but the judge has said this is temporary. For the moment, you have to pay this. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on. There's just so much here to say. The race does not always go to the swiftest.

Wait a minute. Wait, wait, slow it down. I like Mel B's argument. Did you hear that, Richard? She tells the judge, I don't think it's right that an abuse victim has to pay the beater, the perpetrator. Right. I think she's right. Why should she have to pay a guy $40,000 a month that has beaten her,

according to her? Well, that's kind of irrelevant for these proceedings, unfortunately. That's just lame. That's so lame, irrelevant. But the judge found in the formula, there's $175,000 net that she has that's subject to the award for him. He gave temporarily alimony for $40,000 a month. Temporary. They're going to be back in court. And the lesson here, whether you're rich and famous or you're poor, the lesson here is settle these matrimonial

cases. Do not litigate them because the lawyers make a bundle on them and at the end of the day you're going to get crushed. You've got to settle these things early on up front and they're going to see the hard way. Everybody, do you know what you just heard? You heard

what high priced clients pay Richard Herman through the nose to do. He completely ignored my question. And he started talking about something else very earnestly. It totally had the ring of truth. In fact, what he said was true. And you walk away going, yeah, Richard Herman was right. Richard Herman, that is totally not what I even asked you.

So the judge basically is telling this couple to limit. He's got to limit himself to $40,000 a month. Okay. They also are accusing each other of running off and hiding money. What are the claims? Do we know what the claims are on that, Sean? They're just saying that both of them are claiming that either party has run off with joint property

that's worth anywhere from the hundreds of thousands to the millions of dollars. So there's a lot at stake here. It's not just the expenses. It's the property. It's future earnings. Because remember, he claims his career is as her manager. So he

wants a piece of that Mel B pie forever. His career is her manager. He wants as much as he can get. I laugh because when I was going through this with my wife tonight, she said, you do this to me and I can assure you I'll have everything and you'll be supporting yourself by playing the clarinet at Union Square.

Do you think you'd make any money with that, Sean? Nancy, you remember this from law school. All I know is that. Nancy, you remember from law school. California's community property state. Community property right down the middle. Everything right down the middle. Don't rub it in.

And they stayed married just long enough for it to really kick in. Haven't they been married 10 years? 10 years. Yeah, 10. So the judge is blasting Mel B and the husband, Stephen Stansbury slash Belafonte, for exorbitant spending. Where do all the children land in this? How many children do they have together? They have one child together, and then she has two other children with two other men,

and he has another daughter with the ex-girlfriend that he was found guilty of assaulting back in 2003. I like the ring of that, found guilty. You know, she really should have just stayed with Eddie Murphy. Oh, that's a whole other story, Nancy. Can anybody agree with me on that? I mean, what's wrong with Eddie Murphy? He's good looking. He's funny.

He's smart. He denied paternity. Yeah, he did deny paternity. You kind of ruined it for me there, Sean. Thanks. You just ruined the whole scenario. I had to lay it out of my head. So where does it go from here?

Do you know? Do we know? You know, after this, let's hope both parties get into a room with a very set of smart attorneys who encourage them both to settle and walk away from each other. Parting shot, Richard Herman. You're not doing crockpots, Nancy. This is big bucks, lifestyle to rich and famous. That's how these divorces go. That's all you can say? That's how these divorces go? That's it? That's how they go. He's going to get every dollar he's entitled to.

Right, now listen. If I were your client, that's all you had to tell me. I'd demand more of it. Well, you've got to pay me for that. That's how these divorces go? Uh-uh. No. You know what?

I am just, you know, a felony prosecutor. But I would so get down and dirty on this, I would find out every single thing Belafonte has been up to. It goes both ways. But, you know, actually, maybe not now that I'm thinking about it, because

you know what? She's too busy working. She's on national TV trying to hold down two jobs. I doubt she's got a whole lot of time for let me just say gallivanting uh she's too busy trying to support this husband of hers with his fake name i've got to ask you guys about another case it's about a woman who shoots her boyfriend dead, shoots him in the head and says as a defense he asked me to.

Okay. Richard, I've never heard that defense used before. Actually a similar defense was used in assisted suicide an assisted suicide case with Kevorkian. That was a long time ago. That's the only time I've

ever heard that defense used and it's completely different from this case the girlfriend shoots her boyfriend in the head in the forehead and her defense she tells police well he asked me to is that what happened what do you know about that defense have you ever heard it before only in those mercy killing type cases where people are dying of cancer or they have terminal illness. And in this particular case, Nancy, you have an intentional killing. I mean, she took a.45 and hit him point blank in the head. So you have, she intended to do that. You have the intentional killing for murder here. The question is, how is the mitigation? And, you know, was he under such a strain and such a stress that he thought his life

was over and he wanted her? He didn't have the strength, the courage to do it himself. So he went to the next closest person in his life, his so-called wife. He called her his wife and asked her to do it. And, you know, they're going to parade in his social media where he's gloom and doom it's the end of the world friends of his are going to come in and say that you know he was just so distraught and he couldn't get by each day he feared he was being bullied online and this cult was just taking over his life and he was miserable and he's a 32 year old man how is he being bullied online you know wait a minute sean walsh dealingmail.com he's a 32-year-old man. How is he being bullied online? Wait a minute, Sean Walsh, dealingmail.com. He's a 32-year-old man.

How is he being bullied online? It's really interesting, this case. This is a good-looking, young American couple who seem to have everything they could like when you look at the photos on their Facebook account. But here he is online, and he's claiming that an alleged cult leader by the name of Sherry Schreiner was abusing him online. She frequently rails online against fake news and libtards and the Democratic Party.

I'm quoting her now. And his girlfriend has told friends that she was abusing her boyfriend online. And he'd had enough of it. He wanted to escape from it. And so she is claiming that he asked her to kill him, which she did. Let me understand this. She, the girlfriend, is the one bullying him online? No, no, no, no, no, no.

Okay, that doesn't make any sense to me at all. No, the cult leader was abusing him online. Oh, the cult leader. Yeah, the cult leader, a woman by the name of Sherry Schreiner, and she is often online railing against fake news in the Democratic Party, and she was saying nasty things about him online, and he had enough of it. And so he went to his girlfriend, allegedly,

this is what the girlfriend claims, and said, please end this. I want you to end this for me by killing me. And so she took a gun and shot him in the forehead and killed him. Okay, that's not going to fly. Apparently he had been a member of this cult, Nancy. What? He had been a member of the cult, and then they threw him. He had been a member of the cult, and then they threw him out and his girlfriend. So neither one of them appear to be playing with a full deck here. But, look, I don't know the diminished capacity aspect of this.

I know we've talked so many cases about that. But, you know, there is some mitigation here, and it will be a whole sideshow in court to see what kind of state of mind he was in. And, you know, it's only to mitigation. What this brings, he asked me to do it, so I did it. You know, I know BS when I smell it, Richard Harmon. No bail. I'm pretty sure I know the BS when I smell it.

The BSO meter is going off like mad right now because it doesn't matter if some other woman was bullying him online. Uh-uh. Because somebody says, just shoot me now. I mean, that's not a defense. That is not a defense in our jurisprudence system. He asked me now. I mean, that's not a defense. That is not a defense in our jurisprudence system. He asked me to? Uh-uh.

No, it goes to mitigation at sentencing. There's no defense. Uh-oh, Richard Herman just stuttered. I am so happy. I heard that. He went, you had to think for just one moment. Okay. Now, you know that's not a defense under the law.

He asked me to. It doesn't matter if she was in a cult, if he had been in a cult. They're not involved in this. She shot him in the head, and she confessed. When asked by police, she said, he asked me to. That's not a defense, Richard. No no he asked me to because he was so distraught he could not get up go on with his life he was absolutely miserable he was again putting on social media it's the end of the world prepare yourselves it's over the man was just

falling apart and in order to put him out of his misery, he asked her, he begged her, please take me out of my misery. Please do this. It's like the mercy killing cases, Nancy. That's how it goes to mitigation. The cult leaders come out now and she's been releasing messages on social media where she says, I warned him that she was a super soldier who would kill him and move on. I mean, there's so many degrees of crazy here, Nancy. I can't even outline them all. And she says, look, they're trying to spin this that I'm responsible for his death. It was he thought it was a religious group. But it's look, Nancy, it's a crazy cult.

That's all I can say. There's so many different things wrong with this when you read into it. I mean, there's no there's no. Is it a doomsday cult? It's a doomsday cult. That's all I can say. There's so many different things wrong with this when you read into it. I mean, there's no... Is it a doomsday cult? It's a doomsday cult. But there's so many other things that they're railing on about. They really don't have a strategic set of key messages. So Richard Herman, what she really needs is for

you, slick lawyer, to come in and convince the jury that this was a mercy killing. Okay, Sean, please make a note of this. I'm never going to ask somebody please just shoot me. Okay, that's not a mercy killing. Okay, Sean, please make a note of this. I'm never going to ask somebody, please just shoot me. Okay, that's not going to happen. So don't let my husband jump up

and argue that one day. Now you've got it right here on Sirius. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart podcast.