Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DENIED! Sicko Jodi Arias appeals conviction for stabbing naked lover dead in shower.

Episode Date: March 27, 2020

Seven years after her conviction for killing ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander, Jodi Arias' will stay behind bars. The Arizona Court of Appeals on Tuesday upheld Arias' murder conviction and life sentence. In her appeal aria claimed she was denied a fair trial. Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: Kirk Nurmi, Arias former Attorney, Author "Trapped with Ms Arias" Bobby Chacon - Former Special Agent FBI, current star of Facebook series "Curse of Akakor" Joe Scott Morgan Forensic Expert, Professor of Forensics, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Dr Daniel Bober, Forensic Psychiatrist, follow on Instagram at drdanielbober Alexis Terezchuck Investigative Reporter Crimeonline.com  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I want justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace premieres March 9th only on Fox Nation. He had a whole future in front of him. Why was this young guy, a devout Mormon, scrubbed in sunshine, hard worker, sparkling blue eyes, beautiful smile, the apple of his family's eyes, found dead. His body stabbed nearly 30 times, throat slit ear to ear, capped off with a gunshot wound to the head. Why? Why did Travis Alexander have to die? In the last hour's breaking news in the Jody Arias criminal case. Jodi Arias convicted of Travis's murder,

allegedly stabbing, shooting, slicing Travis Alexander dead when she finds out he's going to go on a trip with another woman. Will Jodi Arias walk free over my cold, dead body? nancy grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us crime stories with nancy grace What's going on? Um, a friend of ours is dead in his bedroom. We hadn't heard from him for a while. We think he's dead. His roommate just went in there and said there's lots of blood.

I didn't go in, but I can give you the phone to someone who went in there. Yes, please, can you? Hello? Hi, so what's going on? He's dead. He's in his bedroom in the shower. Okay. How did this happen? Do you have any idea? We have no idea. Everyone's been wondering about him for a few days. She said that there was blood. So is it coming from his head? Did he? It's all over the place. Hold on just a moment. Okay, you're a good friend of Travis's, correct?

Yes, I am. Has he been depressed at all, thinking about committing suicide, anything like that? I don't think he's been thinking about committing suicide. He's been really depressed because he broke up with this girl and he was all upset about that. But I don't think he would actually kill himself over that. Has he been threatened by anyone recently? Yes, he has. He has an ex-girlfriend that's been bothering him and following him and flashing tires and things like that.

And do you know the ex-girlfriend's name? Her name is Jodi. In the last hours, breaking news in the case of convicted killer Jody Arias. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You were just hearing the 911 call made when Travis Alexander's friends found him dead in the shower. 28 to 29 stab wounds and a bullet to the head.

But first, take a listen to more of that 911 call. The roommate, when was the last time he saw Travis? Was it three days ago? Um, that, uh, you guys, when was the last time you saw Zach? Like, I mean, Travis, they want to know if that's the roommate. Last time I saw him was, what, last Thursday or Friday? The last time I've ever seen him was last Thursday. Okay.

When was that? Um, me and he him was last Thursday. Okay. When was that? When was that? Um, Mimi saw him last Tuesday. Or last Monday. She talked to him last Monday. Okay. And everyone is out of the house? There's no one else in the house?

No, no one's in the house. Okay. And what is your name? My name is Michelle. Um, I need to ask a friend something. Here, I'm giving the phone to Mimi. Okay. Um, Taylor. me. Okay.

Hi. Hi. Okay. And this is, okay, the tub is in his bedroom? Yeah. You're hearing more of the 911 call from the friends of Travis Alexander that find his dead body in the shower stall decomposing in the last hours. The appeal filed by convicted killer, his lover, Jody Arias, has been rejected. Is it the end? I guarantee you the answer is no. The Arizona appeals court upholding the Jodi Arias murder conviction, Arias arguing about the, quote, circus atmosphere of her trial and attacking the prosecutor, while no love is lost between the defense and the prosecution. Was there really an appealable error guarding the trial at the time was renowned defense attorney kirk nurmy for jody arias author of trapped with miss arias that fought tooth and nail to guarantee

her a fair trial with me an all-star panel joining me that lawyer kirky, former special agent, FBI, star of Facebook series Curse of Akakor, Bobby Chacon, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned forensic psychiatrist. On Instagram, Dr. Daniel Bober. But right now, to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Alexis Tereschuk. Alexis, let's just start with the breaking news. The court has rejected Jodi Arias' appeal. Tell me what happened. heel to the court in Arizona, and she claimed that she deserved to have her conviction thrown out, talked out completely, because she said that, one, the prosecutor was mean to her, he was bullying her, and two, that the media, it became a media circus in the court because of all the coverage on the case, including specifically you, Nancy Grace. You are one of the reasons why it was such a crazy trial and that the media influenced the jurors and that she deserved a new trial because, one, the prosecutor was mean to her, and two, the media cared about her.

Did you say the prosecutor was, quote, mean to her? I did. Is that what the appeal said? Yeah. She said that he he was aggressive with her man i would feel like the jury would hate my guts if i didn't come out guns a blazing take no prisoners in every murder trial now i wouldn't be hateful or quote mean to use her words not mine um to witnesses unless they started lying

but when you have a murder the jury wants avengement they they don't want a pushover in the courtroom i just don't understand how i play into the whole scenario, but take a listen to ABC reporter Paula Farris. Three years into serving that life sentence, Arias is appealing to have the conviction overturned, alleging, among other things, prosecutorial misconduct and that the court's failure to control news coverage created a circus-like atmosphere, which deprived her of the right to a fair trial.

The appeal also alleges that certain TV personalities like Nancy Grace gave the trial a reality TV flavor. Grace reacting to that accusation on her SiriusXM podcast, Crime Stories, on Friday. How can you get away from the fact that her own admission and her camera convicted her, not me or anybody else. And just days after her conviction, a defiant Arias speaking to ABC News. So you really are never going to tell the truth about what went down in that bathroom. I don't know what you mean by that because I've told the truth. Okay. I didn't know that you were a hater when you came to interview me. Oh, everybody's a hater. It's everybody else's fault but hers.

You're jogging my memory now, Alexis Tereshchuk. I think I do remember Jodi Arias shooting a bird at me in the courtroom. I'm pretty sure. It was a sly bird, like up against her head kind of. Anyway, that's a whole other can of worms. She also slit her finger under her throat like she wanted to cut your throat. Don't forget that part. Oh, I forgot that part. You know, Alexis, it's so great spending time with you. To your special guest right now, renowned defense attorney Kirk Nurmi, the defense lawyer at trial,

and oh, what a trial it was. Not one, not two, but three trials, as I recall. You've got the guilt innocence phase. You've got the death penalty phase, which had to be redone. Maybe I'm forgetting one of them, but Kirk Nermy is with me, author of Trapped with Ms. Arias. You can find it on Amazon. Kirk Nermy, let's see. Does she blame you too? I can't recall everything in her appeal. Actually, the appeal doesn't blame me. That'll come next. After her appeal is denied under Arizona law, Ms. Arias has a chance to claim my ineffective assistance to counsel was the reason for the conviction. I don't know. When I saw you in court, you were fighting like a hellcat. Go ahead. Well, I'll use that maybe perhaps, Nancy. But yeah, I mean, so that's going to be next. Those challenges.

So she's gone after Juan Martinez. She's gone after everybody else. And, you know, she's obviously sued me. And now she's going to go after me again. And to that I say bring it on. I look forward to responding. Ooh, you stole one of my phrases. I loved saying that right before a trial started. Hey, Kirk and Ermi, what a lot of people don't know, if they're not in the legal business, God bless them, they've probably done the right thing.

But defense attorneys get it every time there's a conviction. You've got a defendant sitting in jail looking at four walls going, I think they convinced themselves they really didn't do it. And once in a while, you do have one that didn't do it, very rarely. But they're sitting there, and you're on the outside. You were their lawyer. They may have had a bond with you at trial, but then suddenly that all changes after a few weeks behind bars. And they're like rats on a sinking ship.

They'll grab onto anything. Imagine a rat grabbing onto you because that's what it's like and they look at you i don't have to imagine nancy my point is people think oh my stars he was ineffective he was a bad lawyer this happens with practically every conviction the defendant and their new fleet of appellate lawyers come up with anything they comb the trial record. They find any objection that was overruled, anything that happened at trial, any turmoil in the jury, was a jury replaced, blah, blah.

It goes on and on and on. And they get on to the defense attorney because that may be the only hope they have of getting a reversal. And they will pick through every word you said at trial, everything you did, and try to find something that they can claim reversible error. And defense attorneys take it, you know, just like water off a duck's back because it happens every single time there's a conviction, Kirk. You're right. There's no doubt about it. But I think with Ms. Arias, it will be particularly thorough and given her penchant for vengeance. I think we're going to see a lot of attacks on me, both in terms of what I did and both on a personal level as well. Just keep one eye open when you're taking a shower, Kurt Nermy.

Will do. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I didn't go in, but from what I heard, his roommate went in, there's blood in his bedroom, behind uh and probably and then he said it's all over and then they went in the bathroom and he's in his shower so and his his um his bedroom is where in the house it's upstairs um and if you go up the stairs it it's on the left. It's the first door on your left. It's the only door on your left. Okay. And it's just a big master suite bedroom up there. And she's talking to his friend right now. There's a girl that's been stalking him and he's trying to, he might know some information.

I hope my phone doesn't die. I'm on like one bar of battery. Okay. Well, I'm just going to keep you on the phone until officers arrive, either officers or paramedics arrive, okay? Okay. I think I can hear the sound. Guys, you're hearing the 911 call made by friends of murder victim Travis Alexander to Justice Scott Morgan, a forensics expert, professor at Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott, describe the wounds, the mortal wounds to Travis Alexander, just 30 years old at the time he was murdered. Oh, my gosh, Nancy. How long do we have?

He was stabbed in the back multiple times. He was stabbed on the front of his body in his chest, and he had his throat cut. And in my opinion, at least, and I've stated this on the air openly multiple times, he sustained what I believe is a postmortem gunshot wound to his head. There was no hemorrhage in that track, in that wound track. But she did get over the top of him and literally cut his throat in the middle of the hallway and then drag his body back to the shower where she stored him. You know, there was always a controversy, Joseph Scott Morgan, about how many stab wounds he had. And I believe that's because some of the stab wounds were on top of other stab wounds. I agree. And what do you make of it?

To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist joining us, you can find him on Instagram, Dr. Daniel Bober. Dr. Bober, why shoot him in the head after 28 stab wounds? Nancy, I think there was, it goes back to what people say about, you know, how well you know someone and how personal a crime is. I think there was a level of rage and viciousness that was over the top. And I think that it was sort of like, how many times can you kill the same person? I think she was completely berserk and out of control when she did this and filled with rage. Berserk and out of control.

To Kirk Nermy, joining me, former Jody Arias lawyer, author of Trapped with Miss Arias. And it is quite a read on Amazon. Kirk Nermy, was there anything in the appeal that surprised you? No, I expect her to go after Juan and go after the media. I think what was interesting about the appeal is how much the court illustrated the idea that the conviction was obtained based on the facts and not the prosecutor. And so there was certainly a lot of, I guess I would say,

derision put towards what Mr. Martinez did during the courtroom. So that was a bit surprising. But other than that, no, it was a sound decision in my opinion. And, you know, to Bobby Chacon, how would you, for those of you just joining us, Bobby Chacon, former special agent, FBI, star of Facebook that shot was postmortem, whenever you have a shot, particularly to the face, and it's postmortem, that indicates such a hatred and such a rage and such a personal relationship to this crime that it certainly wouldn't be perpetrated by two ninja-like people coming in to rob the place or something like that, or drug debt or anything like that. It would be very personal.

It would be someone that perceived this person, the victim, as wronging them in some way. And so that's a very, very, a post-mortem gunshot to the face is a very, very specific act. And it narrows the amount of people that you're going to look at. Of course, in this case, we have her admitting it was in self-defense. Well, if you have a post-mortem gunshot wound to the face, there's nothing in that that indicates self-defense.

Stab wounds to the back does not indicate self-defense. There were indications that Travis had defensive wounds on him. Again, that's not indicative of self-defense. So the crime scene here just goes against anything that Jodi Harris has ever said happened in that room. You know, you just heard Bobby Chacon refer to ninjas attacking them. As you all recall, Alexis Tereshia, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, that was one, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, that was one. And I hate to even say this with Kurt and Ernie listening because you're stuck with all these statements that she made when you go to trial.

That's why we have the Fifth Amendment. So Jodi Arias wouldn't say all this, but she knew that when she blabbed. Alexis Tereshchuk, what were her many stories to police about the death of her lover, Travis Alexander, including masked ninjas? First, she said she didn't do it at all. And she kept calling the police and asking if they knew what had happened and get details. Then when she was finally arrested, she came up with this crazy story that masked intruders, they look like ninjas, had broken in and had tied them all up and then had killed Travis. But then she miraculously escaped from the ninjas after having seen them and made it and was able to survive, yet still lied about it for weeks on end. Well, you're right, Alexis Torres-Chuck. Listen to our friend at ABC. This is Ryan Owens.

The jury also saw a second interrogation from the next day. Arias is back with a new outfit, a jail jumpsuit, and a very new story. I actually didn't see it. I heard it. Now she admits she was at his house that day, but says two masked intruders broke in. She even acts out how she cowered in the corner as the duo slaughtered Alexander and threatened her family, mafia style. Arias again tells the detective if she were going to kill Alexander, she would definitely do it differently. Only years later did Arias finally admit she was the killer. Her attorneys are trying to convince this jury she did it in self-defense after the couple fought. In just those two minutes, Jody had to make a choice. She would either live or she would die.

Wow, Okay. Kirk Nermy, that wasn't you speaking. Who was that? Jennifer Wilkes? That was Jennifer Wilmont, I believe, in the opening statement of the trial. Yes, right. Wilmont. Thank you for correcting me. With me, Kirk Nermy, lawyer for Jodi Arias, author of Trapped with Miss Arias. You are hearing a tiny, tiny taste of what the jury got to sample every day, the various stories Arias put forward. And then her lawyers are stuck with conflicting statements to explain away to the jury.

Now, Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter with Crime Online. Alexis, we know that a bulk of the appeal was about Juan Martinez. Take a listen to this. Mike Pelton, ABC. The state argues Arias did get a fair trial and any missteps by prosecutor Juan Martinez didn't impact the jury. But presiding judge Jennifer Campbell pressing on this point. I'm going to pin you down on this. You agree that improper conduct was engaged in on the part of the prosecutor in this case? There are some instances, yes. Not as many as the defense argues, and none that resulted in jury prejudice. Each side with 30 minutes to argue whether Jodi Arias will have her conviction overturned,

a decision these three will make, Nancy Grace here. I have investigated and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases. I have covered literally thousands of cases of missing people, adults and children, unsolved homicides, violent crimes. My question is, what can we do about it? I don't want to just sit back and report on it. I want to take action. And I know you must feel the same way. And here is the news. We have all worked so hard to bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave, a brand new book. You can pre-order now. Go to CrimeOnline.com. This book is for everyone. It even includes how to stay safe while you travel, in hotels, if you're abroad. What do you do to make sure you come home safely to your family? Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave.

Available for pre-order now. CrimeOnline.com, pre-order now and know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Oh, holy night, the stars are brightly shining. It is the night of our dear Savior's birth. Long lay the world in sin and error pining Till He appeared and the soul felt its worth A thrill of hope The weary world rejoices

For yonder breaks A new and glorious morn Fall on your knees. Oh, hear the angel voices. Oh, night divine. Oh, night when Christ was born. O night divine. O night. O night divine. Yes, I had to play the whole thing so you could hear Jodi Arias. Wait for it. Hit the high note. Sadly, that's not the way her testimony turned out at trial.

For those of you just joining us in the last hours, the Arizona Court of Appeals upholds Jodi Arias' conviction and life sentence for the brutal murder of her lover, her boyfriend, Travis Alexander. It also mentioned an aside claiming the prosecutor had bullying behavior their words not mine well he's a prosecutor for Pete's sake uh what do you how do you expect him to act in the face of a woman he knows stabbed an unarmed man nearly 30 times and then capped him in the head what do you think Travis's family wanted a pussycat that just laid down in the middle of the courtroom and let the defense roll right over him well Kirk Nermy is with us the Jody Arias trial lawyer author of Trapped with Miss Arias to Kirk Nermy then I'll circle back to Alexis Trezchuk. What were the claims against Juan Martinez, the lead prosecutor on appeal?

Now, I know there's been a lot of claims of sex harassment, that he would come on to everything that walked by in a skirt, to put it mildly. That aside, what were the claims against Martinez that could have affected the outcome of the trial? Sure. It's not just what the court characterizes as bullying behavior with Ms. Arias, but I think it's also the bullying behavior. And you won't catch me defending Juan Martinez's behavior in the courtroom. I've worked with many a professional prosecutor that wouldn't go to this extreme. And Mr. Martinez making insinuations about Dr. Samuels having an untoward interest in Ms. Arias and some of the attacks on Ms. Arias.

Wait, wait, wait. Kirk, Kirk, Kirk Nermy. Do you believe it's true, I don't know if she tried it with you, that Jodi Arias approaches many, many men with sexual undertones? And her just natural way she deals with guys. I wouldn't dispute that, but that does not mean, and I've known Dr. Samuels for a long time. I knew him a long time before i got in that courtroom that does not mean his professional ethics would be compromised i consider him a man of great integrity well actually i do too kirk normie i do too i guess though when you see arias being flirtatious with the doctor who's analyzing her, it opens up the avenue of suggesting flirtation between the two of them.

But now, Dr. Samuels is a shrink, correct? He is. Well, I doubt pretty seriously Samuels, as well-respected as he is, and he's a shrink, would have, he wouldn't touch Arius with a 10-foot pole. I can guarantee you that because there are snakes in that woman's head. I hate to use that phrase, but it's just so appropriate. No way. Okay, what else did he do?

According to you. Well, not according to me. Not according to me. According to the appellate court, they talked about Mr. Martinez's behavior with Miss LaViolette and the bullying behavior and the confusing questioning. Wait, was Violette the one that wrote that paper aboutolette and the bullying behavior and the confusing questioning. Wait, was Violette the one that wrote that paper about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs about how I was a misogynist or something like that? Was that her? Well, there was a lot of discussion about the title of that. Yes, that was. She had written

something. And I never read that article, so I can't speak to the contents of that article. But I do remember this massive argument between her and Martinez about the seven dwarves and naming the seven dwarves. And like I say, you know, like the appellate court found, I think there was a lot of bombastic behavior in that. And that's what the Court of Appeals called out and basically said Arias was convicted not because of Mr. Martinez but in spite of him. Now Kirk Nermy is referring to a I guess I would say a battered women's expert a shrink of sorts and an article that she had written regarding Snow White and the seven dwarfs and Juan Martinez seized upon it, as he has a right to do in cross-examination, you put up an expert and a good prosecutor will look up every article, every thesis, every book that they can find by that expert and pick it apart. And that's exactly what he did.

Do you remember that, Alexis Tereshchuk? I do. I remember the court was stunned as Juan Martinez attacked this woman, this Alice LaVallette. I want to say she looks like a blonde grandma, but that might be making her too old. But anyway, he attacked her. He was yelling at her, and she wasn't even the defendant. And he just kept hammering her.

And she fought back very hard. But, you know, she started getting death threats after the way that Juan Martinez was yelling at her. That's horrible. when the domestic abuse specialist Alice LaViolette gave a talk once called, Was Snow White a Battered Woman? Little did she think that eight years later that would come back to haunt her. But with her testimony that Jodi Arias was an abused woman at the hands of her murder victim, Travis Alexander. I guess he did bring it up on cross-exam. A lot of claims have been made about Juan Martinez, the lead prosecutor in the case against Arias, but I know this much, while the appellate court

called him a bully, they did not reverse the case. Take a listen to our friends at ABC, Justin Pizzera. This is the complaint right here. 18 pages detailing years of what's being described as unwanted sexual advances, even leaking information about the Jodi Arias trial. But although what's being alleged in this report is surprising to most of us, for some people, they're really surprised it's taken this long to get here. It's one of Maricopa County's top prosecutors, Juan Martinez, his name making national headlines during the Jodi Arias trial. Today, his name front page on this formal complaint

filed by the state bar of Arizona. It's just appalling and shocking. Tammy Rose was a reporter assigned to the Jodi Arias trial. She says she was interviewed three times by the state bar as part of this investigation looking into if Martinez violated rules of professional conduct. It's alleged during the Arias trial, Martinez was having an affair with a blogger who was also covering the trial. Rose says she was friends with that blogger. She was the one that told me that she was having an affair with Juan Martinez. And, you know, I knew he had a living girlfriend. I knew she was married. The complaints continue to detail accusations of

unwanted sexual advances. 30 females working inside the county attorney's office were interviewed for the investigation. In 2015, Martinez allegedly told a law clerk he wanted to climb her like a statue. And on another occasion, he allegedly asked a woman to leave her husband for him. To Alexis Torres, crimeonline.com investigative reporter, I hear what the claims are. My question is, what did any of that have to do with the trial? Did it affect the jurors in any way? Nothing. None of his actions with the blogger and that other woman or the women in his office.

What did happen in court was that Jennifer Wilmot and Mr. Martinez, Juan Martinez, had an argument in front of the judge. And she said something like, this wouldn't be how you would treat a spouse. And he said, I would hate to be ever married to you. And it was a really cruel comment and totally unnecessarily and totally uncalled for. So the judge said, cut it out. Did the jury hear it? Repeat, did the jury hear it?

Okay, then why do I care? Sorry, I mean, I don't approve of his comment. But, I mean, she started it. Wilmot started it by saying, you wouldn't teach your spouse this way. Well, I got to say, she started that. But that aside, it didn't happen in front of the jury. It means nothing to the areaas trial or murder conviction. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

The state of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias verdict, count one. We, the jury, duly impaneled and sworn, and the above entitled action upon our oaths, do find the defendant, as to count one, first degree murder guilty. Five jurors find premeditated. Zero find felony murder. Seven find both premeditated. Zero. Find felony murder. Seven. Find both premeditated and felony. Signed, foreperson. Is this your true verdict, so say you want it all? Guilty. Guilty of murder in the death of Travis Alexander, stabbed nearly 30 times,

his throat slashed ear to ear, and shot in the head. Why? Because her lover, Travis Alexander, who had broken up with her, was taking another woman on a Caribbean vacation. Jodi Arias comes over. They have a marathon sex session all day long. At the end of it, he's still going to go on the trip with the other girlfriend. Bam!

She killed him. Okay. Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Tell me what you deciphered from the crime scene and why there was no way this court of appeals was going to reverse this case. Absolutely no way. You know, Nancy, I think probably, you know, I covered this case for a long time on the air. And one of the most striking things I remember we had recreated the crime scene was looking at the pictures from the crime scene and seeing what we had recreated in the bathroom, one of the, just, it's a gut punch. He actually sprayed blood onto the surface of the sink. He looked at himself in the mirror for at least a moment. He had an awareness when he came out of that shower. I think she backed off for a second. We had what's referred to as fine aspirate spray, which means she had clipped a lung. And as he's

coughing up blood, it's spraying all over the sink, all over the mirror. And then he begins to try to get away from her. He moves down the hallway. His body finally gives out. She gets on top of this guy, Nancy. And I have these visions of her just putting her knee in his back, lifting his chin up and taking that knife and cutting his throat. And then, as we mentioned earlier, she took that pistol and she shot him right in the top of the head. Well, you know what? There are other guys out there that are lucky that they made it out of their relationship with Jody Arias alive. Take a listen to ABC's Ryan Owens. Sir, could you introduce yourself to the jury, please?

On day one of her defense Tuesday, Arias' attorneys called an ex-boyfriend she dated before Travis Alexander, the man she now admits she stabbed and shot in June of 2008. Arias says she killed the 30-year-old Mormon businessman in self-defense. I know Jody because we were in love. He didn't want his face shown publicly, but Darrell Brewer told the jurors he dated the much younger Arias for four years. They even bought a house together,

and the divorced dad says she was great with his son. Jody was a very responsible, caring, loving person. Did you ever see Jody act jealous towards women that you came in contact with? No. But on cross-examination, Brewer may have done damage to his ex-girlfriend's case. He told the prosecutor Arias took a nude picture of him in the shower. Remember, she snapped these photos of Travis Alexander in the shower seconds before prosecutors say

she started stabbing him. As I tell Kirk Nermy, former defense lawyer for Jody Arias at trial and author of Trapped with Miss Arias on Amazon, better keep one eye open on the door when you're taking a shower. Take a listen again to Ryan Owens ABC. But prosecutors allege Arias is a stalker who brutally attacked her ex in a jealous rage when she found out he was seeing other women. Arias' defense, which is expected to start next week, will have to overcome a mountain of forensic evidence, including pictures taken on this camera found in Alexander's washing machine. Prosecutors say Arias literally tried to wash that evidence away. But on its memory card, detectives discovered not just those racy photos from the couple's sexual encounter

the day of the murder, but a series of 20 shots of Alexander posing in the shower minutes before his death. Prosecutors say Arias put down the camera and picked up a knife, stabbing her unsuspecting victim. The most damning picture comes after the camera was dropped. It's too graphic for us to show, but the jury saw a shot of what appears to be Arias actually moving the bloody body. Prosecutors say she was especially cold-blooded after the crime. They played this voicemail Arias

left on Alexander's phone a few hours after she killed him. Morbidly enough, she invited a man she knew was dead to come visit her. But let me know, and I will talk to you soon. Bye. Okay, that's just freaky. You know, Kurt Nermy, renowned defense attorney

and author of Trapped with Miss Arias on Amazon. Don't you just hate it when your murder defendant, your client, snaps photos at the murder scene, then leaves it in the victim's washing machine? It's certainly not a dream for any defense attorney, and particularly when she was also making the assertions of self-defense she was making. And it was just another, you know, nail in her coffin that unfortunately I had to be a part of her defense, you know, so. Correct, Normie. What was the biggest obstacle that you faced trying to defend her?

The facts, the evidence. We've talked about some of the forensic evidence, and Dr. Morgan and Bobby have chimed in on the realities there, and those were the biggest obstacles. But as you know, Nancy, the Sixth Amendment allows Ms. Arias to tell her story if it can't be proven untrue. And so she had that opportunity and she was given that opportunity, which will be a good thing when her post-conviction relief petition comes around. Her what? When her what comes around? When her post-conviction relief claiming that I was ineffective assistance of counsel. Oh, yeah, it's coming. Brace yourself. You know, to Bobby Chacon, former special agent, FBI,

when you decipher this crime scene, what do you see? Well, we see, obviously, anger and rage and personal animus in the most extreme sense, personal animus against this victim. And so you start looking at who had an ax to grind, right? This wasn't robbery. It wasn't a debt collection. It wasn't any of the other things that sometimes act as a motive for murder. This was anger and rage. This was personal animus towards this victim. So you start looking at who could have had that level of anger and rage and animus towards Travis. And these are very small people. Hopefully none of us have that kind of person in our lives. But if you do, it's probably a very small people. Hopefully, none of us have that kind of person in our lives.

But, you know, if you do, it's probably a very small circle of people who hate you that much. And what could make them hate you? And when someone has pre-incident behavior, like she did in renting a car, indicating premeditation, and they have incident behavior, which is the rage and the overkill at the scene, and then they have post-incident behavior, which is lying about what happened. In all three phases, everything works against Jodi Arias in this case. None of her behavior before the incident, during the incident, or after the incident helps her try to establish any sense of innocence in this crime. And to you, Dr. Daniel Bober, your forensic psychiatrist, you've seen it all. I hate to invite you into the mind of Jodi Arias, but what is going on in there? Nancy, you see this a lot in people who have either what we call antisocial personality or borderline personality

disorders. They're all people in our lives that we know. Maybe there's not a lot of them, but they're people that react so disproportionately. They go from zero to a thousand in a second. And then they, you know, they have an ax to grind against you and they just do it in a way that is not at all congruent with, you know, what you've done to them. They just feel slighted. And in this particular case, you know, she was just like a volcano of rage. A volcano of rage. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Jacksonville State University forensics professor and author, weigh in. And I hate that Travis Alexander had to go through this. I'm thankful that this woman is off of the streets now. I think one of the potentially most dangerous things that could happen is that she is released at a very young age back onto society because she has got some serious, serious mental problems. And I'm just looking at the forensic evidence, Nancy, to put it very bluntly, she absolutely ripped this guy to shreds. And I can't tell you how much energy, how much anger,

how much rage is involved in this in order to perpetrate this kind of physical violence, this level of physical violence. I've worked organized organized crime hits before that were not this violent. It is absolutely abhorrent. With us, the defense attorney for Jody Arias, Kirk Normie. When will it end? Well, that's a good question, Nancy. She has a chance to appeal to the Supreme Court to have her decision reviewed, the Arizona State Supreme Court. Unfortunately, it can end there because she wasn't sentenced to death. I know a lot of people want a death sentence, but it certainly makes the appeals less plentiful. And she will have her petition for post-conviction relief.

She will claim that I was ineffective, that I didn't do certain things, like you said earlier, combing over that record. But like I said a moment ago, I didn't hope her story got to be told. Her defense got to be actualized in that courtroom, however contrary it was to the forensic evidence. So she's going to have a lot less to complain about because her defense was actualized. And like I said, that's something I look forward to because of what Ms. Arias' defense and everything put me through on a personal level. I'm looking forward to confronting her assertions. Very excited about it. Alexis Teresha, what is her life like behind bars? She's pretty sorry life behind bars. She is, she doesn't remain chipper and sell,

but you know what? She has cash cash so much cash in her commentary account that she is able to shop to both hearts content she is buying canned sardines she's buying canned salmon she's buying cans of beans she also has to buy vino to treat her stomach issues after she eats that she is buying paints and art supplies so i guess like when i said it was a little sorry behind bars she's making the best of it she also has a job behind bars she was originally working cleaning toilets behind bars excuse me jackie here for some odd reason that you know i'm gonna have to have bober comment on that keeps up with areas behind bars and she just uh posted one of her photos her works of art basically tracing over magazine article photos for one thousand dollars and

guess what people are buying them and men are still falling at their feet word to the wise don't take a shower with Arias guys if you you're so into her, please listen to me. Okay. Round one. The state wins. But what happens next? Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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