Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DESPERATE FAMILY SEARCHING FOR MATTHEW, LAST SEEN IN HYUNDAI TUSCAN LEAVING VEGAS, WHO IS HIDING CAR?

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Authorities in Arizona are desperately searching for 28-year-old Matthew Spencer, who disappeared on a cross-country road-trip from Las Vegas to his new home in Houston. Matthew last spoke to his family on August 6th. Matthew is very close with his family, his siblings, and especially his twin sister, Kara and this is unusual for him to not contact his family. Over the summer, Matthew decides he wants to turn over a new leaf, and makes a plan to move from California to Houston, Texas. Matthew is known for venturing out and moving to new locations, this time he decides to make the trip in his 2006 Hyundai Tuscon. Matthew doesn’t intend to make the 30-odd hour trip all at once. He plans to stop in Las Vegas to see his sister Kara, then stop in Arizona and New Mexico along the way. Matthew arrives in Las Vegas on August 1st, and stays through August 4th, before continuing to Texas. Matthew plans to split the rest of the 20-hour drive into several days. On August 5th, Matthew’s car is spotted coming in to Flagstaff, Arizona. On August 6th, Matthew checks in with Kara, telling her he’s arrived in Cloudcroft, New Mexico. The two chat over text until 10:54, Matthew’s last message saying he’s ‘driving in the desert. August 7th, Matthew does not respond to his sister’s text messages, so after more than 12 hours without contact, Matthew’s family reports him missing. Authorities find Matthew’s silver 2006 Hyundai Tuscon was last caught on camera entering Flagstaff. Matthew’s Tuscon has not been located Matthew is 5’9”, 200 pounds, with brown hair and hazel eyes. Matthew usually has a mustache, and wears glasses. Anyone with information on Matthew, or his silver 2006 Hyundai Tuscon with Washington plate CJM2235, should contact Flagstaff, Arizona police at 928-774-1414. Joining Nancy Grace today, Randi Green - Mathew Spencer's Cousin Kara Spencer - Mathew Spencer’s Sister Matt Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words & Executions of 46 Persons in the United States”  Dr. John Delatorre - Licensed psychologist and mediator, specializing in forensic psychology, psychological consultant to Project Absents: a non-profit organization that searches for missing persons, www.resolutionfcs.com, Twitter, IG, and TikTok: @drjohndelatorre Rhonda Dequier - Founder of 'Missing In America Network,’ a non-profit organization committed to raising awareness, supporting families, and facilitating search efforts for missing persons across the United States, website: www.missinginamericanetwork.org, Social Media: @MissingInAmricaNetwork Evan Short - Director of Search Operations for 'Missing in America Network,' Involved in the search for Mathew Spencer Sydney Sumner- Crime Stories Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A family desperate, searching for Matthew, last seen in his Hyundai, Tucson, leaving Vegas. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. 28-year-old Matthew Spencer embarked on a cross-country moves. His family with whom he shares a deep bond grew anxious when days passed without word on his whereabouts. Where is Matthew tonight? His family desperate begging you for help. With us tonight two very special guests. Kara Spencer, that's Matthew's sister, very close, and Randy Green, Matthew's

cousin. Both of them joining us tonight asking for your help. And in that vein, the first thing I want to do is give you a tip line. It's the Flagstaff PD 928-774-14-14. Repeat, 9-28-774-14. Look at Matthew. Don't look away. Look at Matthew. His disappearance has torn apart the lives of everyone in his family. Where is he? Can we bring him home? Straight out to his sister, Randy. Randy. Andy, explain to me what was happening in the days leading up to Matthew seemingly just dropping into thin air. Yeah, and that's exactly how it was. Everything was very normal. Like Kara was saying, he had talked to his older sister and her.

They were through Messenger. It wasn't like an actual phone call because he said he didn't have enough service. He was in a dead zone area. And he, everything was fine. He asked them how dinner was going. He talked to his other sister, let her know that she was, you know, he was okay, he was driving. And, you know, that was it. Joining us in addition to Matthew's family, an all-star panel, straight out to Evan Short, joining us,

Director Search Operations for Missing an America Network, who is actually involved in the search for Matthew Spencer. Evan, what do you know as we go to air tonight? Well, there was a lot of search that we conducted following the steps and the data that was received with the Google account that the searches and corresponding with the information we received from law enforcement. The flat cameras in Flagstaff, Pingdom, and we also confirmed that with his Google search data that matched up with that. You have been conducting an extensive search, Evan. How many people are looking for Matthew? Well, we have myself and my wife, who's my business partner in the searches. We've had a couple volunteers that have shown up with the searches from the local area.

This must be excruciating for the family. Sydney Sumner, what do we know? Sydney, Crime Stories, investigative reporter about his initial disappearance. Where was he? Where was he headed and why? Well, Matthew was headed from Vegas to a new home in Houston, Texas. That was his destination. And we know that Matthew left Vegas on August the 4th. He traveled through Arizona. And then he told his sisters, he made it to New Mexico. But with cameras, we know that he only made it into Arizona.

There were no cameras capturing him going into New Mexico as far as we know. So we know that this camera captured Matthew going into Flagstaff, Arizona. And then in the next two days, they were able to use his Google account to track his location on and off. So that last known location on August 6th at 1142 p.m. is somewhere between Williams and Belmont, Arizona. and this is just a little bit west of Flagstaff. So we made it going east through Flagstaff and then for some reason decided to backtrack a little bit. And we're now in between Belmont and Williams off of I-40. Randy, you were recounting what led up to the realization that Matthew had seemingly vanished into thin air and you said that was it.

Okay, what happened then? They thought, well, maybe it's just because he doesn't have any service. And he's just one of those people. If he stops and he sees something, he's going to take the scenic route. He's going to try to look around, see what he can find and things like that. And so they gave it a few days. But after that, you start to get a little worried because at that point, this is the longest anybody's gone without talking to him ever.

Got it. He moved on from Vegas and Saunders, Arizona. Yeah, but we think that he was lost, maybe because he never made it. into New Mexico because no, there's no cameras, no nothing saying that he even crossed the border going into there. And from his Google

searching. When you say no cameras, what do you mean? Like flock cameras or highway cameras. They checked a system called Vigilant and they checked a system called flop. So there's nothing showing him

after the 5th in any other states in Arizona. and on his Google searches on the 6th and 7th only show him in Arizona, never making it into New Mexico. Okay, so when you said that he communicated, he was in the deserts of New Mexico, then he wasn't? That was what he said. So maybe he thought, like, he was in, like, the desert of New Mexico, but he was actually in, like, the desert of Arizona. Like maybe his map was not, because he kept searching on Google, where am I? And like he was lost, basically.

Okay. So you mentioned Vigilant. That's by Motorola Solutions. It's a license plate recognition and LPR system. Where did you learn that L.A. law enforcement had used Vigilant? By the detective, he told me it was about, what, two weeks ago. So, Randy, I think he told me that they looked into the vigilance. Yeah, it was two weeks into the search.

He had taken a lot. Randy, what do you know? Well, Las Vegas had to take it at first. They were, because that was the last place that he was seen. So Las Vegas had to take it first. The detective, you know, really didn't work fast. But when he did finally let her know, he let her know, hey, we looked at the cameras. He was caught going into Flagstaff, Arizona.

So you have to turn it over to Flagstaff. That was on the 5th of August. Joining us now is Rhonda DeCare. She is the founder of Missing an American Network. That is a non-profit organization, raising awareness, supporting families of missing people, and facilitating searches. And you can find them at MissingInamerican Network.org. Rhonda, thanks so much for being with us. Do you hear what Randy is saying?

That's Randy Green, cousin. and Kara Spencer, sister, that there was a jurisdictional problem that when Matthew left Vegas, the moment it came up that he may have crossed over into Arizona, Vegas was like, oh, well, you'll have to call them. And I get it. They're trying to deal with their own missing people in Vegas and in Nevada. I understand that. but it seems like there's no communication between jurisdictions and I've had that problem arise

I can't even count the hundreds of times that that has happened here's a good one you know Colorado doesn't even know that Bundy's in Florida okay until he murders women in the Cayo house now that's a murder example but that's an example of jurisdictions having no idea left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing way in Yeah, we come across it just like you quite often. They always say it has to be the last person, the last place that somebody was, and that's the police department that needs to do the investigation. So anything that was done prior to them discovering that he was in Flagstaff, really all they did was run the cameras. So all of the other work has been done by Flagstaff.

And they did pick it up and start investigating as much as they could after they found out he had been seen in Flagstaff. Both jurisdictions, I fully believe Evan Short, you've got the Nevada jurisdiction and the Arizona jurisdiction. I don't think they're trying to push it off on each other, but the reality is, Evan, that's what happened. Yes, there was a handoff from the Nevada police over to the Flagstaff Police when he was pinged through the flock camera and corresponding GPS coordinates. Okay. Let me confirm Randy Green. You're saying that we know he made it to Arizona because he turned up on the vigilant system, correct? Yes, ma'am.

Yes, ma'am. Okay, which is a tag reader. Now, who told you that his car turned up on the license plate reader, the LPR? Who told you that in Arizona? That was the detective in Las Vegas, Nevada was the one that told her that. Okay. where else if anywhere guys you're seeing his vehicle and here's his tag c j m c california joy m mother 2 2 235 repeat c j m 2 235 all you truckers out there help me out this is what we're looking for c j m 2 2235 kara tell me describe the vehicle as you know it did have any dints on it tell me about the car um no

dense or anything. It was a, it's like a silver based high on the Tucson. There's like no really, like, nothing like distinguishing about it. It has Washington plate. It looks silver. It looks silver to me. A silver Tucson. C.J.M. 2235. No dense. No wreckage. Nothing. There you go. Take a look. Randy Green, where do you believe he was spotted or his vehicle was spotted or his tag was spotted within Arizona? What part of Arizona? So they said he was going into Flagstaff, Arizona. That's where they caught it. He was like, you know, the road he was traveling on, they caught him going into Flagstaff, Arizona. And that was the last time that any camera had

caught him anyone had seen him that was it to ronda de care joining us the founder of missing an american network and believe me she's not in it for the money it's a non-profit ronda we just heard the sister and cousin referring to an lpr how do they work what are they so they are license plate readers that law enforcement can look up and see when a license plate has traveled by a camera And it's very useful when they're trying to locate a missing person. And so in this case, the only, they did a search of his license plate, and the only place that it has turned up was in Flagstaff, Arizona. You know what's interesting about the license plate readers to Sidney Sumner,

joining us, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Individuals can have them, and people can be identified through the license plate reader. Now, what you get from it is the car, register to the license plate, but then it's just a simple matter of comparing that to the DMV, Department of Motor Vehicles, and finding out who owns it. Also, in addition to LPRs, license plate readers, there are LPR cameras that help record when the car goes by, and their technology is not hard to understand. License plate readers work by using high-speed cameras and they capture images of licensed plates. Then they employ optical character recognition or OCR to convert the plate images into text. They're very common, Sydney Sumner. Absolutely. They're all over the country.

This is one of the best ways we have to track someone who is in a car. And we should be able to tell if a plate has been removed and plate. on another vehicle. So you should be able to check registry records and find if that plate does pop up, it should be on Matthew Spencer's 2006 Hyundai Tucson, but from that image, you can clearly tell whether or not that car is a Tucson. So if the plate has been removed and put on another car, we should be able to find that out as well.

Sydney, you're right. They text data that you get from the optical, the high-speed camera. image is compared against databases. Um, it's looking for stolen or wanted vehicles. When it matches found, the system alerts. Now, you would never know you're passing one because the ALPRs are usually mounted on objects like road signs. They can be on police vehicles.

They operate day and night in the daylight and the nighttime. They work no matter what the temperature, what the, uh, visibility doesn't matter. and they capture those plates and important, they get the location, the date, and the time of the scan. So that is going to be invaluable what we know right now, straight back out to the family. I'm very curious, Kira, what about in and around the town of Flagstaff as you follow that same route? Wouldn't there be red light cams, business cams, wouldn't there be something that would pick him up? That's what I thought. And then to have him going in, but then when we got the Google account for him to be going back out, they don't have anything.

So he would have had to go into Flagstaff and then come back out of Flagstaff to end up in Williams. So how they didn't get him anywhere else, it just doesn't sit right. But, I mean, I think at one point the detective did say that sometimes they can't catch all vehicles and maybe they caught him going in. They just didn't catch him going the other way. But, I mean, it wouldn't just be license plate grabbers. It would be businesses. It would be red light cams. It would be all sorts of security cam capability, not just the one license plate grabber.

Now, joining me is Matthew Mangino, a veteran trial attorney, former. District Attorney of Lawrence County and author of The Executioner's Toll, Crimes, Arrest, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words, and Executions of 46 people in the U.S. Matt Migeno, thank you for being with us. I cannot impress upon anyone the power of the cam. I'm talking about red light cams, security cams, doorbell cams, home video, business video. even, and I will direct you to the case of missing Connecticut Mama 5, Jennifer Doulos, her husband, Photos Doulos, murdered her, and then his mistress helped get rid of evidence caught on camera. They were spotted on camera, throwing away her bloody bra, her bloody clothing,

rags, towels soaked in her blood. It was all, you know, found in drains all around town. They threw trash out at multiple spots. That said, they then, the Connecticut Police Department, it was pretty amazing, Matthew Mangian, and I'm sure he would freak if it was done one of your clients. They cobbled together a video montage showing the husband, Fotis Delos, going along in a borrowed car. Jennifer's DNA and hairstrand was found in the back.

He later replaced the backseat of the borrowed car. That's not unusual, right? And they get him traveling to, and they're using doorbell cams, they're using red light cams, they're using surveillance cams from businesses all along, going to get the car detailed and cleaned out. He couldn't destroy the car because he had borrowed the car to pin the crime on somebody else. Long story short, they even have a public bus. and when the door opens to let people on and off, you see photos doloos drive by very quickly.

I mean, they had his route from A to Z soup to nuts, straight out the yin-yang on video. It was amazing. So what type of cameras would you be looking for in this case, Man Gino? Well, you're right, Nancy. That was extraordinary police work in that case. But I think in this situation, investigators may be at a disadvantage because this appears to be a two-lane, maybe more rural road at times. We know that they were able to get a plate scan when he went into Flagstaff. But, you know, if you look at some of the video that we've seen, this isn't the place where there's video cameras on every corner or every intersection or traffic lights.

even businesses that have cameras. So that's a bit of a disadvantage. You know, what I would like to know more about this is, you know, why was there, you know, this idea that, number one, he thought he was in New Mexico and then he may have been turned around. Is there any issues with regard to his health potentially? And also, we have the idea that this car had broken down. Where is it?

I mean, you know, typically, you know, you know, someone is, is kidnapped or taken from a vehicle. They're not going to come back and get the vehicle, you know, was there, was the vehicle towed? There's a lot of unanswered questions here based on what we know at this point. Then we have Google searches. So Kara had gotten into his Google account. She had gotten into his Google account. She gave it to their older brother and they worked together and they were able to. able to get a location, a timeline, if you will.

And so it was from, what they did was from the fifth until the seventh. On the seventh, everything stops. And that was the screen grabs that we had given you all. It shows like, why was my car not turning over? Where am I? Things like that. And it was showing that he was in between Williams and Belmont, which is a little bit back from where, from Flagstaff.

So it was going back the other way from Flagstaff. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Dr. John Deloeytori joining us, he is a renowned psychologist and mediator, and he specializes in forensic psychology. He's at Resolutionfcs.com. Dr. Deletori, this is excruciating for the family. They're like stabbing in the dark, trying to, if you ever woke up in the middle of a night, your eyes haven't adjusted and you kind of think you know where you are and you're just walking feeling trying to see they only have tidbits they've got this google search where he's searching things like where am i why is my car not turning over there's a whole other aspect of are these searches real or are they fake searches like the one we saw in the case of gabby pettito where someone well we know who her fiancee was Brian Laundry faking texts from her to suggest she's still alive.

We've seen it even in the Rex Heuerman, Long Island serial killer suspect, calling the victim's families from the victim's phones, suggesting they're still alive. It's horrible. But we don't know these texts are really from, or these searches really are Matthew, but I see no reason to think that they're not. that said the family is just you know feeling their way in the dark that is horrible for them they don't have all the pieces no they're not and listen you know i used to live in in arizona for seven years i have family in new mexico i know this route i don't know why this is the route he's taken to go to houston but i know this route and there's nothing there there are long stretches where there is absolutely nothing there and you can if you're not familiar with the area it is very

easy to get lost. And there are some reservations there that you're maybe not allowed to enter into. So there's so much that is going on that may have kind of confused Matthew and may have put him in a position where he was making decisions that he didn't have to think to make. And so now his family members are struggling to try to find him when he's probably in a panic mode himself, trying to figure out how do I get to the next place that I'm supposed to be going? Maybe it's been too long that I should have been someplace else already and that this isn't working. This route isn't working. There's so much that is happening. And trying to follow in those kinds of footsteps can be excruciatingly painful and saddening because you don't know why someone is making the

decisions that the data that we have is leading you towards. Well, Delotori, you just said something I find very, very probative. Because to Rhonda DeCare, joining us from Missing in America network along with Evan Short. Rhonda, we, it sounds like, oh, he was confused. I don't think he was confused. He was out in the middle of nowhere without signs. I mean, if I were to cross from Georgia to Tennessee all the way up to New York, which I have taken the drive many, many times, unless you see a road sign, you may think you're still in Georgia and not realize you're in Tennessee or on and on. You may be in New York and not realize you've crossed into New Jersey yet unless you are reading the signs. So if he's in the middle of the desert,

like Deloitte just said, there are a lot of Indian reservations there, Indian land you can't get into. I don't think he's confused. He's just driving. He's just making his way. I don't like it when people make it sound like he's confused like he was high on drugs or drinking. There's no evidence of that at all. Yeah, that's absolutely true. There may be some confusion as to why he said he was in New Mexico when he wasn't. I mean, one of the thought processes is that he just didn't want his family to worry about him. But those Google searches do go on to show he was searching a lot about the lake areas.

He was a fisherman, and he loved fish. And so there was Google searches where he was researching the lakes right in that area near Williams and Parker, Arizona. And so one of the theories, one of the things that we have been trying to explore is if he went looking at those lakes. And so that's where Evan and the team have been searching is around those lake areas. Randy, Rhonda is right. He was a nature enthusiast. He loved hiking. He loved new places.

He loved fishing. So if you see maybe a back and forth in his route or a circuitous route, that's not unusual for him, right? That was just it. It was like he was making kind of a circle, I guess you would say. He was looking for like fishing places and things like that. That's what we just found out because someone else had gotten to his Google account. They were able to see, you know, a little bit more in depth where he was going. But yeah, he just stayed pretty much in that same spot.

I don't even see Belmont on this map. So you're saying he goes from Flagstaff towards... It's in between Williams and Flagstack. Gotcha. Flagstaff to Williams. and then will which is 37 minutes and then from williams to belmont is about 23 minutes back towards flagstaff so why do you believe he was last in belmont so we've talked a lot we i mean me and kara talk every day and we tried to obviously come to our own conclusions and from

what we have gathered ourselves um and obviously from the help of others that have been looking with us as well. We think that maybe he started having car troubles of some problem. He didn't want to worry anybody, so he just kind of turned back the other way, maybe going back to his sister's house, trying to make it back that way.

He stopped. He was looking around. Just kind of trying to see... Wait a minute. Did you know that in Belmont, I was checking this out, in Belmont, they have a lot of, I mean, if there's anything famous there that Pietrois would stop to look at, I would think, you know, they've got those natural springs in Belmont.

You said something about what he liked to go fishing. And Belmont has local springs that a lot of people go to look at. Yes, two of those. One was Dogtown Lake and then the reservoir. And then the other was Shoals, I think it's pronounced, Shoals Lake. they know for a fact that he was looking at those ones because it was also on his Google timeline so he was I think he probably stopped he was having car trouble he didn't want to worry anybody so he just thought he would get out look around explore a little bit

that's just was kind of his nature so you know he was looking around checking things out maybe would stop officially figured out what he was going to do and then everything just kind of stops from there well what about those two lakes you mentioned And Shoal Lake and one other, were they explored? Is there a place that he would have parked to go fishing? Anything like that? We're not sure. He was able to get a timeline.

Like, he's doing way more into it than we could. He's the one that got, you know, these locations that he's been going to, and he flies a drone around, you know, as much as he can. And he's been looking into those, the lake he just, did the Dogtown Lake, he just did that one, and then next he'll be moving on to Shoals Lake. We just did a thing where we were asking for volunteers to go out and help because it's so fast that, you know, it's going to take him a little while to cover it all. Evan Short, that person doing all the searching would be you. Tell me about the use of drones

and what you know about these two lakes. Yes, we based off of the GPS location of the searches, Fortunately, he was saying directions to Doctown Lake. It showed the directions of his location. We were able to visit each of the locations he did these searches for and do extensive drone searches with the limited equipment that we have due to budget. But we were able to go to each of those locations on the 5th and also on the 6th around Dogtown Lake and Schultz Lake. we were able to eliminate a lot of the areas of where he was at

unfortunately we weren't able to locate the vehicle and then on the 6th we visited the location it was about four miles east of Schultz Lake where the last GPS location which was the the afternoon of the 6th and we did a grid search of that area as well Wow, wow. When you're using a drone, Evan, what are you looking for? Well, there's different type of searches for different types of methods for different type of searches.

For this one, it's kind of like a high pass grid, you know, point down the cameras and see if we can locate a vehicle. That's the big object that we're looking for right now is if we can locate the vehicle that would provide us a more essentialized location for additional on foot searching. I know we've mentioned this was quote out in the middle of nowhere, but actually, isn't this a long route 66 where everybody travels? Yes, ma'am. You know, another thing, speaking of Belmont, you know, the population there is very low, around 1,000 people. So when we're talking about a town and saying, wow, nobody saw him because it's a little community like where I grew up. It's very possible nobody saw him if he was there. that I had actually talked to so in the first couple weeks

Kara and I had called I mean anybody that you can think of we hopped on TikTok live we got every single route that he could have taken and we deduced it to three routes that he could have taken to get where he was we took every single city and went Googled hospitals tow truck companies gas stations anybody that would hear us So we called them all. And just this last week, I called the tow truck company again, just in case there was some kind of, you know, that maybe they found something. And the lady explained to me that, you know, she, well, she wanted me to send her a flyer. And she said, listen, this is a very small place. She's like, it's a lot of land, but everybody knows everything. She's like, so I'm going to send this out to all my guys. But, you know, if anybody is going to see anything, it's them. They are tow truck drivers. They have to go, you know, everything. And she kind of was saying the same thing. She just didn't understand how the whole car was gone and nobody's seen anything. Yeah, that's another issue to Matthew's sister, Kara Spencer.

It's not just that he's disappeared. His car has disappeared too. How does that happen? I'm not sure. I think maybe he parked it somewhere at a gas station or a grocery store. and maybe it's somewhere just nobody can see it and nobody just noticed it. There's a lot of different possibilities that's been running through my land. Maybe somebody stole it and took the license plates off of it.

There's a lot of possibilities. Evan, it's short, actually searching for Matthew. You were saying that very thing that is going to be easier for you to spot a car versus a person. So is that what you're honing in on when you're using your drone? And how are you conducting this search? That's pretty rough terrain in some areas. Well, we've got some, unfortunately, we have some experience in this type of searching. So we have equipment, you know, vehicles that can drive out in these remote locations. The, the, the searching for the drone, as you can see it's like a high pass search over through some of the areas we've actually been

able to identify other vehicles that were similar to matthews but upon inspection it was just like saying make a model just a different year unfortunately so we'd be able to locate from a high pass the vehicle and that's really what we're hoping to locate is see where the vehicle is so we can then conduct additional more focused searching in that area. Guys, we are showing you the actual drone footage. Evan Shore, you and wanted to care from Missing an American Network are amazing. First of all, you're volunteers. You're not getting paid for this.

You're seeing the drone footage that Evan records and then scours through it, looking at it with a fine-tooth comb to see if he can spot a person or the vehicle. This is extremely detailed. It's amazing. Back to the family. Has he ever disappeared like this, gone for this many days without speaking to you? No, never. And his last message was, how was your dinner and how was your night?

And the next day his phone was just off. And that's never happened. Just thinking through everything that you're saying, would he be wary if someone came up and offered to help? him? No. He's had help before when he's ran out of gas or his car broke down before when he was driving. People would stop and help him. He wouldn't put a guard up, you know.

But what's interesting and curious is it's not just him missing. The car's gone too, just like vanished. Sydney Sumner, Crime Stories investigative reporter, this guy loved nature. He loved hiking. He loved fishing. He loved exploring. In fact, he planned this trip from Vegas to his new home in Texas and was stopping at intervals. The family knew that to sightsee, to fish, to look around.

He was adventurer, hard worker, but he loved his fishing, right? So I'm just trying to figure out. Did he meet somebody while he was fishing while he was fishing while he was. was taking photos, has he uploaded any of those photos that could tell me anything? Remember in the Delphi case where Liberty and Abby actually took a photo of the killer? Right? Do we know, Sidney? And what can you tell me about his love of fishing and exploring? I mean, he factored that into his trip. Yes. Well, his family believes that Matthew may have been having some car trouble,

may have run into some kind of road bump. Instead of panicking and worrying anyone, he just took some time to maybe explore the area around him, spend some time fishing, get his mind together before he made a plan on what to do next. So we know that Matthew loved to fish. There's plenty of photos of him holding absolute whoppers. So this feels like typical behavior.

Let me take a step back, relax, and then we'll get ourselves back together. and get back on the road. We do know that Matthew was taking photos on his phone. He wasn't posting anything to social media or anything like that, but he was scrolling through social media like Instagram and TikTok, just normal behaviors for Matthew, according to Kara and Randy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

to Dr. John Delotory joining us, licensed psychologist specializing in forensic psychology. Dr. Deletori, this guy was used to traveling, exploring, fishing, camping. He was not wary of someone approaching him, offering to help him if his car had broken down. He did those Google searches, why I want my car turn over, why is it making a clicking sound? if those were truly his searches, he would not have been, he would not have had his tackles up at all. And unfortunately,

there are some individuals who will take advantage of someone like that, right? You know, even though this is kind of a sparsely populated area of the state, there are so many people that go through. You never know who you're going to run into. And so it is certainly possible that something maybe nefarious happened.

I don't think, though, that Matthew would have been kind of triggered to be worried about something like that. I think, you know, it seems like this is his calm space to go fishing and to be out with nature. It seems like this is a space that he's kind of comfortable in, but that comfortability can also make you more vulnerable. You know, I'm also curious, Randy, about the Google searches. Tell me about the searches and where you believe he was when he was conducting the searches. Evan has been able to go in a little bit more extensively like he can see the actual coordinates of these searches and um you know it was just that's what I'm saying it's right around the same area but the thing that we don't understand that we just figured out is that it was for it was from the fifth until the seven so he was in that same area so I just don't I don't understand he even said that he was good

different things, like parts for a cat, like an excavator. He was Googling something about that. He was Googling, you know, the things that were going wrong with his car as well. But it just, it's hard to put the pieces together because we just don't know it. And, you know, Evan is working very hard because he's trying to fit all the pieces together. Follow this map that he has created. So Evan Short, joining us from Missing in America Network. Evan, explain what Randy just told us that you have the coordinates of where he was doing the searches regarding the car not working.

Yeah, we have the coordinates of and the timeline of where he was at searching on the sixth of where his 2006 Hyundai Tucson clicking when I turn the key in a won't turn over. And then also that was earlier in the day and then later in the day right around the same time that they were. messaging care of the sister he was searching the same thing and also on the seventh so on the six we have the GPS coordinates which was off of green uh garland perry road just east of schultz link and then on the seventh when he searched it unfortunately it didn't capture the GPS coordinates on that location joining us the founder of missing an america network ronda de care you know you guys to have managed to find a lot of missing people without the benefit of Google coordinates

like you've got in this case. So what is making this case of Matthew? What's making it so hard to solve? Because we can't find the car. We can't locate it. We've been out there with the drones. We've had people in the area looking. It's not a highly populated area.

And we have to just reach everybody that's out there so they're on the lookout for that vehicle because once we find the vehicle, that's going to answer a lot of questions. Matthew Mangino, former felony prosecutor, now civil attorney and author, Mangino, these coordinates are pretty exact. Well, they are, Nancy.

And it would give you an opportunity, I would assume, to at least reach out to the community or people in the area who may have seen a vehicle broken down alongside the road, may have seen someone working on a vehicle, may have seen this vehicle for an extended period of time sitting there. You know, that seems to be more kind of the gumshoe work that a police department would have to do when looking for a missing person.

I mean, these things just what we know just doesn't seem to add up, you know, being in a flagstaff, you know, doubling back, you know, having a car broke down, and then just vanishing the person Spencer and his vehicle there's a lot we don't know and we have to try to connect those dots if we're ever going to find him you're right man Gino

to Dr. John Deletori forensic psychologist here's the thing Deletory routine evidence I don't mean typical routine evidence I mean evidence of routine he was always in touch with his sister and cousin

all the time they would text or speak multiple times a day, and then suddenly his routine changed. There's nothing good about that. No, not at all. I mean, he's even checking in to see how their day was and how dinner was. And then we get messages about him being in the deserts of New Mexico and in Cloudcroft, which is a completely different area than where he was last seen.

There's just so much weirdness that's going on. I think that's what's the confusing element to it. Right. The routine that he would normally just kind of check in, even if he found it, he would find a way to get a message out. I think that's the key that the family is going through is that he would find a way to get a message to them, but he hasn't yet. And that's what's sparking the fear and the anxiety of the worst thoughts that they could have that to happen to their family member. That photo that we're showing of him with a big smile and the flower behind his ear, this guy. Such a happy, happy spirit, just loved his family, love the world around him, headed to a new job and a new home in Texas, and then just suddenly vanishes, uh-uh. It didn't happen like that. Even if he vanished, what about his car? Straight back out to sister and cousin.

It's hard to put the pieces together because we just don't know it. And, you know, Evan is working very hard because he's trying to fit all the pieces together. Follow this map that he has created. And, you know, he stops in these places. Like, one of the places that he stopped in, there was actually like a little makeshift, um, tpee kind of thing with a little fire pit. But we don't know if maybe Matthew just stumbled upon that or if he made it. Um, and then one of the other places, the coordinates that he got, there was just nothing there.

It didn't look like anybody had been there. So it. Just the unknown is what's crazy about it. I don't know. And what was the content of the search? What was he saying again? It was, well, the things that we had sent you, like the turning out, his car wouldn't turn over, things like that.

But he was also searching for the Dogtown Reservoir, the Shoals Lake. And then he was also Googling something about an excavator, just regular things. He was on his foot, like the camera part of his. phone taking pictures um i think he was on ticot on instagram so he was just doing normal things and the last time you have evidence of him is august six correct yes ma'am what is your message to him tonight randy that we love you and if he ever does see this we just want you to come home we want to bring you home in any way that we can i don't know what's happened but I just know that everybody loves you and we miss you and we just want you to come home.

Kara, Spencer, what is your message to your twin brother tonight? I just hope that you're safe out there wherever you are. And happy birthday. What is your birthday going to be like this year without him? Mary Hart. Do you believe he would get in touch with you if he could? Yes. we lost our mom about 11 years ago so we were we've always been very close

please look at the photo of Matthew look at Matthew if you know or think you know anything about Matthew's whereabouts or if you think you saw his vehicle please dial 928 774-14-14 repeat 928 7774-14-re repeat 928 7774-14-14 I want to thank the Missing in America Network tonight to them being on with us. Also for all the work they do every day, every night trying to bring missing people home to their families. Now we remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Jacob Solron, Richardson County Sheriff's South Carolina, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind a grieving sister, Alice.

American hero, Deputy Sheriff, Jacob Salern. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an IHeart podcast.