Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Desperate search for College coed Mollie Tibbetts, pig farmer questioned third time

Episode Date: August 13, 2018

Frustration and speculation is growing in the mystery of missing Iowa college student Mollie Tibbetts. Nancy Grace continues on the case with her experts, including private investigator Vincent Hill, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, New York psychologist Caryn Stark, and CrimeOnline reporter Leigh Egan. Nancy also hears from listeners on the case. Join Nancy at 7:30 a.m. ET Tuesday for a taping of Crime Stories. Call in an share your theories and questions at 909-49-CRIME. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph. In the last hour, friends and relatives holding a prayer service for a missing co-ed Molly Tibbetts. Tibbetts goes out on an evening jog, still daylight, we believe, and is never seen again. Where is Molly? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The search goes on for Molly Tibbetts as new evidence and information comes in by the hour. Take a listen to what her dad just said. Totally speculation. I think someone went to the house that Molly knew or that Molly trusted and she left with them willingly. And now they're in over their head

and they don't know what to do. Interesting that that is a theory her dad has come up with. What is leading him to this conclusion? You know, that's what investigators do. They piece together all the evidence and they come up with a theory. And listen to me. Her father is saying these, these theories for a reason. This is based on what he has learned, what he has been told, what he has observed, what he knows of Molly. He's not just grasping this out of thin air. Molly Tibbetts, a gorgeous

young girl with her future in front of her, a daycare counselor set to go on a field trip the following morning when everything goes dark. With me, Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Karen Stark, renowned New York psychologist, joining us from Manhattan. Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. Vincent Hill, cop turned private eye. Anne Allen Duke, L.A., Jackie Howard in the studio here with me as we bring you the latest in the search for Molly. If you have a tip, if you have a question or a theory, call us, 909-492-CRIME, 909-492-7463. Let's go straight to the lines.

Alan, give me the first caller. Nancy, we love your show. We watch it all the time. We've been following the Molly Tippett's case very carefully. And, you know, we just had a few questions, and I'm not sure if you've already addressed them on maybe an episode we missed or a time we missed. But we're wondering, have they taken cadaver dogs down to the pig farm to see if there's any sign that there had been life or somebody there at one time?

And I think they need to be looking into this brother a little bit further. I know he dropped her off, and then she may have told him that she was going to go out for a run, and he may have waited for her. I don't know. It's just a thought that we've been having. We've been following the story very closely. My name is Wesley Tomsick. Thanks, Nancy. Leslie in San Diego, thanks for calling. Let's address that right now. Leslie, number one, scent dogs were taken to the pig farm

according to our sources. Now, were they cadaver dogs? That I don't know, but dogs were spotted near the farm. I cannot imagine to Joseph Scott Morgan, you're the death investigator, that they would go out with just tracker dogs. I mean, there is a very, very critical difference between tracker dogs and cadaver dogs. Joe Scott. Yeah, there is, Nancy. They're trained for very specific jobs. My thought is that more than likely they have taken cadaver dogs out. But as you can imagine, that's something that they would not as of yet want to release uh they would want this to be seen as an active investigation where they're looking for a person that is still alive yeah i mean they're trained differently cadaver and i've worked very

closely with both type of dogs and i want to remind everybody this is hard to believe but vincent, I know you'll back me up about tracker dogs and cadaver dogs. And when you think of like the Beverly Hillbillies, remember Blue, the bloodhound sitting on the front porch? It's not like that, people. That's not what it's like. But Vincent Hill, do you remember in the Scott Peterson case, tracker dogs tracked Lacey Peterson's scent, not cadaver dogs, I'm pretty sure it's tracker dogs, from her home all the way to San Francisco Bay. Okay, that's 45 minutes away, and she was in some type of a vehicle. What about that, Vincent? That's a fact.

Yeah, that's a fact, Nancy, and police use tracker dogs all the time. And to Jost's point, usually if they're using tracker dogs, it's because they're looking for someone that's alive. Cadaver dogs, they already know the outcome, so they're looking for remains. Yeah, you really need cadaver dogs, especially like in a trash dump situation where you just cannot find the person. The second part of Leslie's question, Leslie in San Diego, don't feel bad about asking about the brother. Because in this scenario, everybody's a suspect and nobody is a suspect. We are looking at every single person. They're saying, are they not to Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com, investigative reporter.

Hey, you know what, Lee? Remember, here's the gold standard. Mark Klass of Klass Kids. When his daughter, Polly, was taken, sex assaulted and murdered, he's like, take my DNA, search my place, search my car. I'll take a lie detector test. I'll do whatever you want. Get past me. Get past me. Go look for the person that took my child. So I'm sure the brother has no problem stepping up and going, sure, I'll take a poly. I'll give you DNA, whatever you need. But Leslie's right. Leslie, you're right in San Diego because everybody, brother, sister, boyfriend, dad, mom, neighbor, pizza delivery boy, it starts at the beginning and moves out. Everybody is a suspect. Nobody is a suspect. They have to rule out everybody. Am I right about that, Lee Egan? You are correct, Nancy. They have, they're not really saying, but the brothers have been ruled out according to the community. The very latest that we are hearing is the father believes that someone, Molly knew,

came into the home. Let's go through the evidence as we know it right now. Molly Tibbetts, a young co-ed, out for the summer, about to restart school, goes missing on an evening run. Never seen again. To Joe Scott Morgan, in a nutshell, don't go death come four on me, okay? Just keep Morgan in a nutshell. Don't go death come for all me. Okay. Just, just keep it in a nutshell.

Tell me what the evidence was at the scene that would lead the father to believe somebody she knew came in and she went willingly with them. Well, she's left everything behind Nancy. Uh, you know, there, there's nothing there to indicate that there was a forced entry or a

struggle. Uh, it's, It's just simply she just kind of vanished out of the door. So he doesn't think that she was taken against her will. At least that's his impression. And that she just wandered out. And keep in mind, this is a very peaceful place where people keep their doors unlocked. They painted this idea that the place is like Mayberry almost. Guys, we were talking about the missing co-ed Molly Tibbetts.

Take a listen to what her boyfriend tells our friends at WOAITV Des Moines. This is not like her. Dalton Jack is living in a nightmare. I figured, you know, I'd speak to her in an hour or so. And right now, it's one he can't wake up from. I came home as soon as her mom said that she called the hospital and she wasn't there. The last time the 20-year-old saw Molly was on Wednesday at 10 p.m. when he opened a Snapchat from her. It was just a selfie with a caption, and I don't remember what the caption said, but it looked like she was inside.

He never thought he wouldn't hear from her again. When he texted her early Thursday morning, he didn't notice the message hadn't been read until her friend called late that afternoon. One of her co-workers called me said Molly had not called in to work that day and she hadn't showed up and then I looked at the messages and she hadn't opened or read any of them so I started getting in contact with her friends and her family saying hey have you seen her have you heard from her and everybody came up with the same thing no i haven't seen her since yesterday dalton says the three years the two have been together they've been inseparable she's so sweet i've never seen her be angry or mean to anybody in the almost

three years that we've been dating to not know where she is is unsettling and he's gone numb if this is her running off this is is just, nobody would have seen coming. Nobody would have ever guessed that she would just take off and not tell anybody. It is just, you know, an emotional roller coaster. It's a nightmare she's unable to wake up from. Laura Calderwood can't look anywhere in her hometown of Brooklyn, Iowa,

without seeing her daughter Molly's face on a missing person poster. It's a reality check every time I see one of those posters also, you know. It's like she's gone. 20-year-old Molly Tibbetts vanished nearly two weeks ago. Her mom immediately knew something bad must have happened. I knew something was terribly wrong. She would not go to work.

My greatest fear is that we wouldn't find her. But I can't go there right now. Calderwood says Molly was seen out on a jog around 7 30 p.m. on July 18th. To the best of my knowledge, I believe she did make it home from the run and was in Dalton's home. The family says evidence shows Tibbetts was doing homework on her computer after her jog that night. That is Laura Calderwood, Molly Tibbetts' mom, speaking to our friends at KCCITV. Laura Calderwood out searching for her daughter. The days dragging on since the disappearance of Molly Tibbetts. In the last hours, we learn a pig farmer, a pig farmer whose farm is about 10 miles from where Molly was last seen,

has in fact taken a polygraph test over Molly's disappearance. To Lee Egan, investigative reporter with CrimeOnline.com, the pig farmer at first indicated he had not taken a poly. Is that right? That is correct. He told several reporters that authorities asked him to take a lie detector. And he said, I have no reason to. I have nothing to hide. So I'm not taking it. And then he just decided that he wanted to tell everyone he did take it. That's very unusual. To Karen Stark, a renowned psychologist joining us out of New York,

why would he first say it's a waste of time? Those were his exact words. It's just a waste of time. I guess referring to the polygraph indicating he did not take it and then later says he did take it. Why would he publicly deny taking it and then reverse? Well, I don't know. It's a sign that you really can't trust what he has to say. I think he's really basking in the attention and leading people astray deliberately because he's kind of having fun playing games with all of this. I don't know

if it means he's guilty, but I think he's having a good time getting all of this attention. Well, I'll tell you this. I would not be playing games with the feds picking through my trash. And when I look out the kitchen window, the FBI now taking over the case of Molly Tibbetts disappearance, I would not be playing games. I don't know if that's what he's doing or if he was embarrassed he took a polygraph or for some reason wanted to hide the fact that he had taken a polygraph, which leads you to wonder, did he pass it or not? Why would he cover that up? Let's go to the lines. Joining me right now, Joe in Florida. Hi, Joe. What's your question, theory or tip? Hi there, Nancy. I have a couple of comments about this sad case.

And one of them is and it doesn't doesn't refer to the victim's problem. But the culture in small town America of leaving doors open baffles me because what are people trying to prove? That they trust everyone? You want to leave the door open if you're in the bathroom and some stranger comes in and you're almost helpless? That really bothers me, that culture. And the other is the fortitude and magnificent ability of the father to state unequivocally his feeling that she's alive and the way he is able to talk with very little information. I think his ability to communicate is as good as anyone I've ever heard who has a lost one, a loved one in trouble. You know, Joe, in Florida, two things. Number one, I agree with you about the father.

You know, if it were my dad, I'd probably be a puddle on the floor. He was so sentimental, Joe. This dad has so much strength. I think my dad would rally and do what he had to do to find me. I agree with you about the father, but I do take issue in something you said, Joe, about small town America. I don't think that when people leave their door unlocked, they're trying to prove anything to anybody.

I think that's just the way they were raised. They've never been broken in on before. There's a low crime. Crime is not a part of their life. They're not conditioned to it. They're very trusting because they have no reason not to be trusting. So to take a swipe at, as you say, quote, small town America, your words, not mine. Remember, you're talking to someone from an area where there was nothing as far as the eye could see but soybean fields and tall pine trees. Now, as I recall, however, we did grow up locking the door. But that smells faintly of victim blaming.

And I don't like that, Joe, in Florida. And I'll tell you why. You could say that about any woman. Why was she jogging? It's her fault. Why did she have on a jogging bra? That's her fault. Why was this girl here?

Why was that girl there? Why was her skirt so short? Why was this guy driving 50 miles an hour instead of 45? I mean, it could go on forever and ever and ever. You know, just recently, a shooting, a guy was mugged and the perp took his wallet and the guy says, well, can you at least give me my driver's license so I can catch a plane home from this wedding tomorrow morning? So the perp shoots him and kills him. So is that his fault? He asked for his ID. I mean, that could be argued, right? So you saying, Joe, and I'm going to give

you a chance to defend yourself. What's with small town America? What are they trying to prove? I don't think they're trying to prove anything, Joe, in Florida. Okay, maybe I... Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. When you just say okay, that really takes the wind out of my sails because then I can't fight with you anymore.

Okay? When you agree with me, I'm not used to that. Well, I have something else to say about it. Far, far, far from blaming the victim for something like that. It's just one of those things that seems to be, hopefully not, but could be at the root of how she disappeared. I believe, my belief is, in knowing some facts, that she returned to her apartment, their apartment, I should say, and she was abducted from there. And that's my belief. And I believe that... But why? That's exactly what the father is saying. Well, but that's my belief, too.

In other words, knowing somewhat about the facts in the case. Hold on just a moment, Joe. Joe, listen, when I say why, I need evidence. I have beliefs, too. But when you go to court, you have to have evidence to back it up. You just can't come up with a theory. Maybe she was waiting on the great pumpkin to land, and it took her off with it, the pumpkin patch. You've got to have more than a theory. But but actually there is evidence to support your theory, Joe, in Florida. And that evidence is there was no sign of any struggle. Nothing was taken from the home.

The dogs were still locked up in the basement. Now that's what's leading a lot of people to believe she was taken while she was out jogging because when she would go jogging she would lock the dogs in the basement and then let them out when she got back it's my understanding lee egan investigative reporter that she actually slept with the dogs sometimes the only time the dogs were not in the basement is i mean i'm sorry the only times the dogs were in the basement is when she was leaving if she was there the dogs were out the basement is when she was leaving. If she was there, the dogs were out. If she was sleeping, the dogs were with her, according to her boyfriend, who said that the dogs pretty much did what they wanted to

throughout the house unless somebody left. So, yeah, that is correct. See, that's what we call a clue. Back to the pig farmer. The pig farmer actually taking a polygraph test over Molly Tibbetts' disappearance as the missing student's boyfriend brother who also lived in the home says no signs of struggle in the home from where she vanished. This pig

farmer takes the polygraph says he does not know the results. At first the 56 year old farmer refused the test claiming it was stupid. He was in question three times over Molly's disappearance. He fell under scrutiny after a red shirt, similar to the one owned by Molly, was found near his home. The red shirt, I keep going back to it, was significant because why, Lee Egan? The red shirt is significant because that is the shirt that Molly wears to her job at a daycare center. She had three shirts from what we're being told. Two shirts were accounted for and one shirt was never found. That goes to the theory that she was supposed to wear the shirt the following morning because the children at daycare were going on a field trip. The counselors

were wearing red shirts to be easily identifiable by the children. Did she wake up the next morning, put on the shirt, and was then abducted? Another theory. But before you make up your mind, take a listen to what Molly's dad, Rob Tibbetts, tells our friends at Fox News. This is Sandra Smith. Rob, when was the last time you talked to Molly? I talked to Molly Sunday for about three hours. We talked regularly on the phone. I live in California. She was out earlier this year for

my wedding. And so we just talked about she's going to the Dominican Republic for a wedding, her boyfriend's brother. She's getting back to school, books she's reading, just the usual stuff. She was wearing a Fitbit when she was running. Authorities have at least told us that much. What can you tell us tonight about how that's helping them track down her whereabouts and where she might have been last? I don't know. The authorities, as you said, are circumspect with all of the information, and so they're

not sharing that sort of information with us as well. A lot of questions about what state the house she was staying in, her boyfriend's house, while he was off on this construction job. And she was there dog sitting, as much as we've been told. Something that has not been mentioned much, were the dogs there? Had the dogs been found? Were they at home when authorities arrived at the house? Yeah, the dogs were at the house. I was just there yesterday and they're in perfect condition. Interesting. And so now they're waiting for new evidence that they may have new evidence in their possession, but are they sharing that with you, Rob? No, they're not. And for obvious reasons, last thing the authorities want to do is share information that would give an

advantage to anybody who would need to use that right now. The last we heard before the latest developments was that the last she was seen or heard of was on that run. And now the new developments today is that the last she would have been seen was this photo she took Snapchat to her boyfriend and it looked like she was indoors would it be like Molly to be working on her computer and doing homework late into the evening like they believe she was now it wouldn't be unusual when she was staying with us in California she was on the computer quite a bit she was taking online courses so that wouldn't be unusual but none of the timeline has been confirmed by the

authorities, at least not to our knowledge, and so a lot of this is now conjecture and speculation that we just can't confirm. I'm the one that threw red flags that she was missing. She hadn't called in, and I looked at my phone. I noticed that I had texted her good morning that morning, and she hadn't opened it, so I got a hold of all her friends and family you're hearing the sound of molly tibbett's boyfriend as he is speaking out speaking out regarding the last time he saw or heard from molly at this hour cops need your help the tip line 800-452-1111 where is molly 800-452-1111. Where is Molly? 800-452-1111. As each day passes, the hope of bringing Molly home alive dwindles. To Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, author, and death investigator.

Joe Scott, why is that? Why is it that as each day passes, the hope of bringing her home gets slimmer and slimmer. Yes, we move forward in time, Nancy. That little light gets dimmer and dimmer. We're three weeks downrange now. And so as that goes by, we're losing evidence. Memories are fading. And also, whoever is responsible, if there is a specific person responsible for this,

they're getting more and more distance away from the police, and that's a scary proposition, Nancy. Straight out to the lines, joining me right now out of Baton Rouge, Heather Harris. Hello, my Cajun friend. What's your question? My question is, I've heard some conflicting reports as to whether there were actually pigs on the pig farm that they have gone back and forth to. And I did read that over the weekend, the pig farmer did go ahead and take the lie detector test. But have they confirmed whether there were actually pigs on his property or not because my biggest fear was that her potential remains were fed to the pigs as awful as that sounds okay guys heather harris

calling from baton rouge heather a lot of people would think that's a really far out question question. The reality is we have heard of many, not just one, but many cases where victims were actually fed to pigs to eat. That is true. That is true. We have nothing to suggest that happened here. But to Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Let's take a look at Heather's question. What do we know about the actual farm? Were there pigs on the farm? According to the community, no. But authorities have not confirmed or denied that. All we have to go by is what the people around the area are saying.

And they're saying that there have not been pigs on that farm for a while. The issue is more like a processing center. Ew. So saying pig farmer, I agree with Heather. In Baton Rouge, I just assume when you say pig farmer that there are pigs on the farm. But there's not. That's what you're telling me, Lee Egan? That's what the community says.

And Shaney also said he sold that farm years ago. So he hasn't been an actual pig farmer in a while. Well, is he still living there? He does still live there and he does still own land, but he's not a pig farmer. So that could be, it could be possible he sold the pigs. But it still answers Heather's question that there were not pigs there to destroy the evidence. Do I still have Heather with me right now? I am.

Yes, ma'am. Heather. So what do you make of that? It just seems really strange that they've been over there to talk to him so many times. I just, I listened to Joe Scott Morgan talk the other day, the last time you were talking about Molly Tibbetts. And even he said that he just doesn't feel, and I feel the same way. I feel like the authorities wouldn't waste so much time going back there talking to him over and over again if there wasn't a reason. Yeah, I agree with you on that, Heather Harris. It could be something as simple as he's holding something back, something unrelated to this case, and they know he's holding back, so they keep circling back. They may need more questions answered that he's refusing to answer.

They may come up with other questions. It could be anything, but it's not a good sign when the feds circle back and back and back to you. You're right. Your intuition is correct. And Karen Stark, New York psychologist, when Heather says she's got a feeling that something's not right, please keep going back, you know, people say it's just a hunch and discount their feelings. But I've long said, Karen Stark, and you and I have discussed this on TV many times. Hunches are the result of thousands of years of evolution of the human.

It's things that you notice that you may not even know you noticed. It could be nonverbal communication from a perpetrator, something you notice subconsciously, something instinctive. But hunches are for real, Karen Stark. because they are based on your own unconscious, on the things, just like you said, an acute sensitivity to the fact that you're picking up on something, even if you're not aware of where it's coming from. And the fact that they kept going back to this guy, as I mentioned before, I think part of it is he's enjoying the media attention. But above and beyond that, they are picking up on something from him,

or they would not waste their time continuing to go back to Sutherland. Now, many people include, yes, jump in. Yeah, listen, one of the other things we can't forget here in all of this, one of the reasons they zeroed in on this guy to begin with, that I believe is that he, correct me if I'm wrong, he does have a history in his past of going after people. Stalking. Yeah, stalking, which adds a whole other creepy level. Listen, this place is very small, Nancy. This town itself, Brooklyn, is less than 1,500 people.

So you don't have a wide variety of folks to select from here. He's in proximity to this. That's going to narrow this thing down relative to what the investigators are looking for. That's what they said about Tara Grinstead and it took 10 years. Yeah, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying that. Well, you're right. You're right. Let me follow up on what you're saying. And I hope Joe is still listening because I'm going to give him a prop here. It's such a small town with the door unlocked, as he pointed out, to have a complete stranger just saunter into a small town like this one, somebody seeming you'd think would come forward and mention, hey, I saw that guy. Although we have heard evidence of a black SUV trolling the area, which lends credit to the father theory that she got into the car with someone that she knew or someone she knew of, someone that had a non-threatening facade. Think about it.

In the past week, Iowa investigators have canceled not one, but two press conferences at the last minute with no explanation. I find that very, very unusual. Does that mean they're working on a specific lead to Vincent Hill, former cop turned PI, to have the police cancel not one, but two pressers at the last minute? I find that very telling, Vincent. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. And to your point, maybe they're working on a different lead. I mean, we mentioned the black SUV.

You know, if I was those investigators there, I would be checking DMV records in that town. Who has a black SUV? Who may have known Molly? Who may have been friends with Molly? Who had an incident with Molly? All of these things. So and plus, keep in mind, we still haven't nailed down the exact timeline. So I think when police start to think about it, let's not use press conferences if we can't give definitive answers. We have two and a half hours between the jog, 7.30 she was seen, and the boyfriend says there was a Snapchat around 10, the red shirt the next morning. So there's still a lot of unanswered questions. So maybe police are just saying, hey, let's not do this presser

until we can give definitive information. Well, you know what, Vincent, you're the cop, the former cop, not me. But if that was their theory, they would have never called the press conference to start with, okay? So the fact that they call it and then cancel it at the last minute not once but twice to me is significant um to lee eagle what more do we know i want to follow up on what joe scott just told us about the pig farmers alleged well it's not alleged he played guilty to stalking what else do we know about that lee His former girlfriend recently spoke to reporters

out in Iowa, and this happened just this past week or so. Apparently, this is the lady who took out a restraining order on him, and he was convicted of stalking. Her daughter was at an ice cream shop outside eating ice cream with a friend. Wayne Chaney reportedly pulls up,

sees them, pulls right in front of them, gets out of his car, stands in front of them and just stares at them and will not leave. So in the girlfriend's mind, she's thinking he's capable of anything and she would not put anything past him. Okay, now hold on. Let me just clarify something regarding what Lee just said. Lee Egan, that's what the ex-girlfriend says. We have not confirmed that. We have not substantiated that. We do know that you and Joe Scott are right.

He does have a stalking conviction. We know that. Tip line 909-492-CRIME. 909-492-7463. Call us with tips, questions, theories. Wayne, what has it been like these last few weeks? Take me through what the community has been going through, what you've been seeing, the activity.

I haven't really seen much, so I really don't know what's going on. I have no idea what they're doing. It's just a bad deal. What's been, I guess, I have no idea what they're doing. Yeah. It's just a bad deal. What's been, I guess, the hardest part? That I can't find her. Yeah. How does that, that's been impacting you, even though you don't even know, you know, the person, right? No, but I don't know her.

Yeah. What's that like, not knowing someone and being frustrated about their situation? Well, I don't know. It's just a bad deal. You had said you know I mean we've heard different people I mean all people in Brooklyn people out here at hog farms that own you know different properties police come in and going through things what was the situation like for you here and how they kind of approached everything oh i don't know well to hear cheney the local pig farmer he doesn't know much of anything that's odd right doesn't know anything i don't know how to explain that but i do know the feds have spoken to him three times now

but they seem to have left him alone we're referring to a pig farmer who lived about 10 miles down the road from where Molly Tibbetts was last seen alive theories are abounding as to her disappearance that reward has now climbed to about three hundred thousand dollars three hundred thousand dollars with $300,000, $300,000 with Molly's mother taking the unusual step of offering the money to the kidnapper if they bring Molly back. Call us with your questions, your tips, your theories. 909-492-CRIME. 909-492-7463. Let's go straight out to Tampa, Florida.

What's your question? Hi, Nancy. Yes, your question? Hi, Nancy. Yes, I have a question for you. For these missing children and kids or people, why can't we use satellite dishes to go in and pinpoint if we have a place and time someone was abducted or taken to actually use that footage to go in and look at who did it. Wow, that's a good one. You know, I want to go to you on that one. Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, death investigators. I have had that question asked many times, many, many times, because we know that satellites are out there. We know that they can pick up on very minute details, to my understanding, even a license tag before. I also know that it's been tried in other cases to no

avail. What do you make of that question? Well, yeah, there's something called geospatial analysis, Nancy, where satellite imagery can be honed in on specific areas. And it's more of a probability, exercise in probability, where an individual may or may not have gone. Now, as far as her, them having the absolute ability for them to track her specifically would be very difficult. And also, in this period of time, there may not, you know, you may not necessarily have a satellite that is passing over this area

that could be tasked with that kind of job. It's called satellite imagery. Satellite imagery being used to solve cases in some instances. There are specialists in law and earth observation that have been working on many, many cases, including places as far away as Mexico, Chile, Nigeria. And these cases range from murders to, you know, simple disputes. Seven of the cases that I know have have turned into full on investigations, but you've got to have data over a particular month, season. It's very difficult to get the data. Has it worked in the past?

If so, it has not been publicized. To me, it seems like a logistical nightmare to try and do it. You know, we saw this same issue come up straight out to Alan Duke joining me in LA. You're very familiar with the Missy Beavers case. I thought for sure the stingray use, NYPD, I believe, brought in their stingray equipment to Midlothian, Texas to try and grab all the cell phones used in the area where Missy Beavers was found dead within a certain period of hours. Okay? We got nothing. So very often, the high tech can be very questionable in certain cases.

Well, the stingray is just for use when something's happening at that time, when they're monitoring and tracking somebody then. Right. And this had already happened. But in Missy Beavers, the weird thing is, I think the police have a lot that they're not telling us about. And so maybe they do have imagery that they're just not releasing. We know about those parking lot videos. Right, right, right, right.

So that came from the surveillance video at the gun store and the sports store, the video of the cars. But regarding high-tech usage in crime-solving. Well, they keep a lot of that stuff secret. Yes, they do. I mean, we didn't even know about this. The stingray was kept secret for years before it leaked out. You know, Joe Scott, to the question regarding satellite imagery, back to your answer, there has to be a satellite in that area at that time. The likelihood of a satellite being over Brooklyn of 1,500 residents may be far-fetched, But I think she's got a point. Why not try it?

And I often say, Joe Scott, you know, NASA could learn a thing or two from Target. Have you seen their video surveillance? I mean, it's getting better and better by the minute. Yeah, and I think that as time goes by, this is going to improve exponentially. That ain't helping Molly's parents, though, Joe Scott. No, it's not. But what you can look for with a lot of these imageries is changes in landscape, particularly when you're talking about clandestine burials. Good point. You know, the theory, the prevailing theory right now,

as we started out with the dad, is did she live with somebody she knew. But hold on, hold the horses, because we also know she sent a Snapchat that evening indoors to her boyfriend that he opened at 10 p.m. We also know, according to reports, that she was doing homework on her computer late in the evening. She would have jogged before that. That's totally inconsistent with the dog still being in the basement while she's out for a jog. She would have come home, let the dogs out, doing her homework. How'd the dogs get back in the basement? Did she plan to leave again? Is that how the scenario went down? Right now, the working theory seems to be she left with someone she knew. But who is that? In a town of 1,500, don't we know who her acquaintances are?

Another theory is that she ran away from home. I don't buy that for a minute. These two canceled press conferences are weighing on my mind. Very unusual that they were canceled. Is Molly with someone she knows? If so, it's more likely that she is still alive. Listen to this. Every day I feel Molly's presence with me. You know, sometimes I just feel her sitting on my shoulder.

And Molly was an incredibly strong young woman. And I don't know that I have the strength in me, but Molly's lending me her strength every day, every night. And yes, I have my moments of complete meltdowns, but it is through this strength that is somehow, and I don't know how, being bestowed upon me that I am able to get through every morning, every noon, every night. That's Molly Tibbetts' mother, Laura, speaking when the reward was announced, over $300,000. The Molly Tibbetts tip line, 800-452-1111. 800-452-1111. The unusual tactic of offering the money to the kidnapper in exchange for bringing Molly home. Call us with your tips, your theories, your questions.

909-492-7463. Straight out to the lines now. Joining us from Iowa, Shannie. Hi, Shannie. What's your question? I just saw online you guys were talking about Molly Kibitz. And so I said, I'm going to call in. So I live in Van Meter, Iowa.

Okay. And we've had 70 kids missing, you know, in a month here. We have no information from the police, what's going on, what's happening to our kids out here. And I'm pretty frustrated, you know, and then the other day, that anonymous people started sending videos to the people in Brooklyn and Iowa. And it's just, I believe it's sex trafficking going on pretty much. That's what I think. Wow. Hold on. Let me understand this. You have all these people missing in Van Meter, Iowa.

Question to you. How far is Van Meter from where Molly went missing in Brooklyn? About two hours. Now, we don't have them missing here in Van Meter. We have them all over Iowa. There's like 70 children from June to July that have been taken here. Not just Molly. A lot of kids. That is a huge amount of missing people. That's huge. Children, girls and boys, Nancy, girls and boys, not just girls and boys. Now, I want to back up what Shannie is saying.

In Iowa, so far that I know of, 48 juveniles have gone missing. Is that number misleading? The search for Iowaowa student molly goes on but as shannie is saying we know of 48 other iowa juveniles have gone missing so far and that has sparked a fury about what is going on now there's been a lot of coverage regarding the disappearance of Molly out of Brooklyn, Iowa. But what about all of these other children? Now, fear, concern, rumors have developed to the point where many people believe, including Shani, that sex trafficking, the human market, is what's going on. Is that true?

What do we know about sex trafficking and human marketing? You know, Joe Scott Morgan, there was a time I would poo-poo it, but not now. Where are the bodies at, Nancy? Where are the bodies at? You're right. Where are the kids' bodies? You're right. None of them have been found.

Hey, and Nancy, let me just jump in. I'm found hey and nancy let me just jump in i'm sorry shannon let me just jump in to her point i mean they've been covering this in iowa since 2015 nancy about sex trafficking in small towns in iowa so she may be on to something because she had the point where are all these bodies of these missing kids that no one has seemed to have found just yet. So she could be on to something. Now, the Department of Public Safety is saying that juveniles run away multiple times. So one kid can run away three or four times, and it inflates the number. But I don't know that that's necessarily true here. Joe Scott Morgan, sex trafficking, human trafficking.

Let me tell you something. I nearly did a back flip. You know, I just took the children on a Disney cruise, right? Which I love. And we had an awesome time. Well, I flipped out because right before that, I took them to my nephew's wedding in Maryland. And I had my mom with me. She's up to get her from the door to the gate. We, such a long walk, we use a wheelchair. So she went in with John, John David, my 10 year old son, while I was out checking the bags. I go in, they're both gone. Then some worker says, oh, they went to the bathroom. What does that mean to me? That my mom gets John David to push her to the bathroom.

He stands out by himself in front of the men's bathroom. Okay? Joe Scott Morgan. My heart was just beating out of my head. And I couldn't run after, because I had Lucy in tow. I couldn't run after because I had Lucy in tow. I couldn't leave her alone. So bottom line, sex trafficking, human trafficking of children and teens is real, Joe Scott. It's real. Airports are the worst. And rural areas, perfect target.

I want to interrupt for a second. But where our freeways cross, like I-80 and I-30 or whatever, it's like a big drug trafficking highway anyway. So, you know, I really believe that that they're taking them out in semi somehow. I just you know, the thing about it is they keep saying that they're going to come out and let us know what's going on. They aren't. I have a 15-year-old daughter here, 15-year-old daughter that lives here. You know, I'm just, and nobody, it's not even making the news. Like, what is going, like, nationally?

Like, come on. This is a problem. So I actually went out to search. I went out to go to search in Brooklyn. I was getting ready, got my water bottle. They canceled the search. They say they called the FBI in. Now the FBI is here, but nobody is saying anything.

Nothing. It's like a two second thing on the news. No, no, no new information. That's it. Now we know sex trafficking is not the cause of every missing person case in Iowa. No, not every missing person case. But she's right. The National Human Trafficking Hotline recorded 74 reports of human trafficking in Iowa in 2017 alone.

In one year. That they know of. Sex trafficking is real. alone in one year that they know of. Sex trafficking is real. Now, listen to this, Shani. Way back when I was still prosecuting in inner city Atlanta, 10 years, I had a 13-year-old girl get taken. You know where I found her?

There's no nice way to put it. Where? A whorehouse. Okay? There her there's no nice way to put it a whorehouse okay there's just really no nice way and when i walked into that that motel i'll call it and euphemistically i looked in there were three or four women i'm not were in there and i came out to the investigators i said she's not there's not a girl in there where is she you said she was in there they went that's her in the boots I went back in this 13 year old girl looked like she was 38 she had on a weave all the makeup the adult clothes I looked at her and I realized this was the 13 year old little girl she had been taken for sex trafficking, and she was in working with prostitutes. It happens. It happens more than we can say.

So what's the word, Shannie? Is that what people believe happened to Molly? That's what I believe, and I believe there's a lot of people that are now just now getting suspicious. You can go on my Facebook page and you can see child after child after child. You know, I wasn't even aware of it. What is your Facebook page, Shani? What's your Facebook page? Oh, it's just Shani Gilbert.

Just my name. How do you spell that? S-H-A-N-E-Y? Yeah. And Gilbert, G-I-L-B-E-R-T. and gilbert g-i-l-b-e-r-c well i'm gonna do that right now go ahead and you can look in and see and so at first it was just girls and everybody was like oh whatever then we have an autistic boy that's been missing nobody found him he hasn't made news. And he was one of the first ones. So now all these little boys are going and missing.

And so when you're talking the numbers of 48, I guarantee you're talking just girls. Because if you look at it, it's boys too. I'm going to your Facebook site right now. Shannie Gilbert on Facebook raising the theory of sex trafficking. Her body has not been found. Her clothing has not been found. Her cell phone has not been found. Where is Molly? Again, the tip line for Molly Tibbetts, 800-452-1111.

That reward now climbing to over $300,000. Take a listen to Molly's mother. If it were me that were missing, Molly wouldn't give up hope. That's not a thought. You won't see me giving up hope. That's not an option. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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