Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Details of torture & abuse revealed in California house of horrors

Episode Date: January 19, 2018

Details emerging about life for the 13 children of David and Louise Turpin reveal unthinkable torture and abuse that allegedly went on for years. Police found the malnourished siblings chained and hog-tied in the home after one of the teen daughters escaped and called 911.  Nancy Grace talks about the southern California house of horrors with private investigator Vincent Hill, psychiatrist Dr. Carole Lieberman, RadarOnline.com reporter Alexis Tereszcuk, and co-host Alan Duke.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, channel 132. The abuse was horrific and over time, but this is prolonged abuse that did involve beatings and strangulation. So certainly there was violence in the home, but we're looking at kids being chained up to their beds. Now we go to California and the unfolding story that has broken the hearts and wrenched the guts of so many people across the country. I'm talking about that Paris, California, house of horrors, where 13 children, apparently children, were found chained to their beds, lying in their own feces. Horror. The children starved. As soon as police come in, they start begging for food and water.

There were 13 children, and everyone thought they were about 10 and under. One of them was 17. One was 29, but they were so starved, they looked like they were 10 years old. That's how stunted their growth is. They could hardly stand. We have been expecting an appearance in court by their reclusive and bankrupt parents. Ellen D, what happened in court? Nancy, when David and Louise Turpin appeared before a Riverside County, California judge Thursday, they both entered pleas of not guilty to all of the 75 charges combined against them. Nancy, let's listen to District Attorney Michael Hestern at his news conference in Riverside County, California. We have filed 12 counts of a violation of penal code section 206 against both David and Louise Turpin. That is torture. We filed one count of a violation of

penal code 7288B1 against David Turpin, which is lewd act on a child in the name of a child who is charged with a lewd act on a child by force or fear or duress. We filed seven counts of violation of penal code section 368B1 which is abuse of a dependent adult. We filed six counts of 273AA which is child abuse or

neglect. We have filed 12 counts of false imprisonment. The date range of these charges, they range from 2010 to the present. The husband and wife sat at the same table, but a lawyer sat between them. They did glance at each other, and you could detect a smile from her here and there, but he looked pretty grim-faced throughout the whole proceeding. They each spoke just one word in court, answering yes when the judge asked them if they understood the proceedings. The judge set their bail at $13 million each. That's $1 million for each of the children they're accused of torturing. After court, one of their lawyers told reporters they're going to provide a vigorous defense for the couple. And he said the case will be tried in court and not in the media.

So he wouldn't say anything else. They'll be in court again in February for another hearing. Alexis Tereshka, one thing that is so baffling is these were educated parents. The father is an engineer, at one time, pulling down almost $150,000 a year. The neighborhood is a lovely neighborhood and a lovely home. But these children, the neighbors said they were like vampire kids. They only came out once in a while at night. They were exceedingly pale and they would see them dumpster diving, looking through trash. The chief of police said the reason he said it was torture is when his officers got to this

home, they found conditions were deplorable. They absolutely had been tortured. Another issue is that we are wondering now whether police or at least officials had been called in the past about this home. We are also learning about the injuries to the skin and the arms of these children being chained and lying in a dark room with the windows shuttered in their own feces, chained so they could not get away. This after having told authorities they were homeschooling the children. Take a listen. All the victims have now been examined by doctors and medical professionals.

All the victims were and are severely malnourished. Specifically, severe caloric malnutrition associated with muscle wasting. To give you an example, one of the children at age 12 is the weight of an average 7-year-old. The 29-year-old female victim weighs 82 pounds. Several of the victims have cognitive impairment and neuropathy, which is nerve damage as a result of this extreme and prolonged physical abuse. The brutality of chaining beautiful children, innocent children, chaining them to a bed, starving them, I just overcome. The way that they found that, is the 17 year old girl,

she escaped. She climbed out of a window of the house. She took a deactivated cell phone from the house and she called 911 from that phone because all phones could do that. They can call 911 even if they don't work. And the police met her. She said, my brothers and sisters are being held in the house. My parents are torturing us. She even had pictures that she showed them. The police went with her. They knocked on the door. The parents opened the door. And they even said the mom was perplexed as to why they were there.

Perplexed? She didn't understand? That's kind of hard for me to take in. How could the mother act perplexed. She didn't understand. That's kind of hard for me to take in. How could the mother act perplexed? Alan Duke, could you please roll police? The 17-year-old victim that escaped had been working on a plan with her siblings to escape this abuse for more than two years. She escaped through a window and took one of her siblings with her. That sibling eventually turned back, became frightened and turned back, and went back into the house. The evidence is that three victims were chained up at the time the police first knocked on the door at the home in Paris.

The defendants were able to get two of the victims unchained before the police actually entered. An 11 and 14 year old were unchained as the police stood at the door, while a 22 year old remained chained to a bed when the police entered the home. Circumstantial evidence in the house suggests that the victims were often not released from their chains to go to the bathroom. It all goes back to some emotional issue, Alexis, other than just plain out meanness. I mean, you have a child who could put chains and shackles on their own child and starve them. Alexis, we're learning that they only took a shower or a bath twice a year and were only fed food in the worst conditions at best. This is what we've learned. The parents would apparently buy food

for themselves and not allow the children to eat it. They would buy food including pies, apple pies, pumpkin pies, leave it on the counter, let the children look at it, but not eat the food. Joining me right now, Dr. Carol Lieberman. Dr. Lieberman, thank you so much for being with us. This is an outright crime, but I'm curious, curious, it doesn't change the facts, Dr. Lieberman, how the mom acted perplexed when police showed up and how they would trot the children out occasionally for outings, such as dragging them to Disneyland for the day and then going home and chaining them back up, giving the world the facade that everything was, quote, normal in the home. How does that work, Dr. Lieberman? It's a folie en famille, craziness in the family. In other words, they were keeping, I think that the parents were out of touch with reality,

and they were keeping it, you know, clearly the children didn't necessarily, you know, I'm not saying that the children were crazy, although it is interesting that when they did bring them out, like to the wedding in Las Vegas and to Disneyland and all that, that the children didn't run up to some stranger or to some policeman if they saw one and say, we're being tortured, you know, tied to our beds. So there was some kind of, you know, some kind of craziness. Well, I don't find that unusual at all, Dr. Lieberman, because if you look at children who have been kidnapped and mistreated in the past, I mean, look at Shasta and Dylan Groney. They were stolen from their home. They were horribly molested and mistreated. The whole family was murdered except them. But we see actual video of Shasta Groney in a convenience store,

and she's too afraid to say anything. Then you look at the little boys that were taken years apart from a rural area and held against their will for over 10 years. When they would go out in public, they would never utter a word. So I'm not surprised at all that the children were too afraid to say anything. Well, yes, I think part of it is fear. But part of it is it had to have been, you know, perhaps they were trying to protect their parents also from getting into trouble. But it's interesting. What I find the most interesting is the 17-year-old girl, you know, I would love to know what finally happened that got her to run out of the house and call for help.

We are now learning that this couple actually said goodbye and told friends they were leaving town just hours before their 13 children were found having been shackled starved and lying in their own feces i'm wondering if alexis if that was not the catalyst the girl knew that they were heading to another home remember their old home alexis the landlord said that it was just stunk of urine and feces, and they thought it was so bad they must have had multiple pets living in the home. This tells me, Alexis, this was the pattern before they moved to this neighborhood. This was the pattern in this neighborhood, and it was going to be the next pattern for all i know this girl thought she was going to die or the at the best go to another home where they would be held prisoner alexis but what can you tell me about the couple the mom and dad telling people goodbye and telling friends they were leaving town just before they were discovered well that's what the has been revealed that they

started telling me they didn't have a lot of friends. They really didn't. They kept to themselves. But the few people that they talked to, they were saying goodbye and that they were going to be moving. And the thing is that you brought up the house, the houses that they lived in prior to this one in Texas. The owner said that there were scratches on the wall. That is so scary to me because you said they thought they were pets. But no, it was these children that were scratching up the wall. That is so scary to me because you said they thought they were pets, but no, it was these children that were scratching up the wall and they were just held captive in these

homes for so many years. So that's what we are wondering that this little girl realized that not only maybe that it wasn't that they were leaving, even though they were saying they were leaving town, the parents, but that she thought she was going to die. And this was the time she had, she had to let somebody know she had to get help. Because even though they were obviously tortured by these parents and manipulated, she knew that this was wrong and that she wanted out. She had to climb through a window to escape and then use a cell phone she had found in the home to raise the alarm. The people who later bought the first home,

not the one in Paris, California, the home in Fort Worth, thought scratch marks on the doors were caused by animals. But now they believe that it may have been the children scratching at the doors, the carpets covered in dirt and filth and urine and feces, because when you're chained up, there's nowhere to go. The current owner doesn't want to be identified, but she found unusual vents in the master bedroom closet when she moved in. Two vents in the closets, then they're covered up now. She thinks that some of the children may have been locked in closets.

How can you present a facade of normalcy, Dr. Carol Lieberman, to the world, yet you run a torture chamber on your own children at home? Yes. Clearly, these children who were tortured for so many years and the children who are older are going to be having more psychological damage than the younger ones because they're having had more years of this torture. So it wouldn't be surprising that, you know, there were scratches that they made.

I mean, it really, really has created severe psychological damage in them, which also was a part of why, you know, they weren't able to call for help. And I heard a, there is, there was a story of a girl who was saying that she was in contact with the father when she was a little girl, and he used to watch her in the bathroom, and he used to laugh about it, and she was just very uncomfortable, but she was little and she felt helpless. So yes, I think it's going to come out that there was all kinds of sexual torture as well. Take a listen. The victimization appeared to intensify over time. So it was what started out as neglect became severe, pervasive,

prolonged child abuse. Right now we are charging one count of lewd act. This is an ongoing investigation. I will tell you this, that if our investigation uncovers more crime, we will charge more offenses. Let me switch gears very quickly. I'm thinking back to my days as a prosecutor when I would wake up at 5.30 in the morning, race to court, start a trial at 8 o'clock, and keep going strong till midnight looking for witnesses for the next day. Things change. By 10 o'clock at night, I am exhausted working, taking care of the twins, cooking dinner, the works. Now I found out about something awesome, and it's called Super Beets.

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Many of the children didn't know what a police officer was. The 17-year-old, when asked if there was medication or pills in the home, didn't know what medication or pills were. Back to Paris, California. Police rescuing 13 children. What can you tell me, Alexis Tereszczuk, about the mother and dad keeping all their relatives away? They have not been in contact with their relatives physically. Nobody has seen them in person in 20 years. Their relatives are all coming out. They're saying, we tried, we begged to let them see us.

We begged to come see the children. They wouldn't let them. They wouldn't even, they would talk on the phone with the parents, but they would never let them speak to the children. They completely isolated everybody from their family. In the last hours, the aunt of these children, Elizabeth Flores, speaks out on ABC's GMA. Listen to what she said. What was it like when you first heard the news? Well, I was shocked because my sister and I really haven't had a sister relationship for about 20 years. So other than maybe like a call every once in a while, and sometimes those calls were like a year apart. So I was shocked.

I was devastated, just like much of the other world, you know, the rest of the world. I know that you're thinking of the children. You lived for a time when you were a college, your sister and brother-in-law. They had children at that time, a few children at that time. What did you observe about their parenting? Well, I only lived there for a few months, but I thought they were really strict, but I didn't see any type of abuse, you know. Alexis Tereschuk, RadarOnline.com. What can you tell me about these allegations the dad was peeping in on a visitor in the bathroom? So Elizabeth Juarez, who is the sister of Louise, the mom, has said that

she lived with the parents when she was about 18. She'd graduated and was living with them. And she said he would come in when she was in the shower and he would hang out in the bathroom and he would act like it was a joke and he would talk to her and they would talk back and forth. But she said, now that I'm looking back, this was so weird and so creepy. But she said, I didn't know and I didn't know. Who would I have told about that? It was so strange. And she was living there. Listen to what she said on ABC's GMA. I heard that you said that your brother-in-law at the time made you uncomfortable. Yes.

How so? Well, like, if I went to get in the shower, he would come in there while I was in there and watch me, and it was like a joke. He never touched me or anything, but... Did you say anything to anybody about his actions? No. I was young. I was scared.

I had exes where I knew nobody. I had no family. I was treated like one of the kids, kind of, so I had rules. I know probably looking back, but, you know. Well, now that I'm an adult and I look back, I see things that I didn't see then. Now, it's very, very odd, Alexis, that about six years ago, the dad's family, some of them came to the home and they said everything appeared normal. How much do you think they beat and or tortured those children to make them behave in front of his family? Well, it must have been so terrible because six years ago, the oldest would have been, you know, 23. But when you saw these kids, you know, I mean,

even now we saw video and pictures of them from just two years ago, and the oldest one to me looked like he was a 13-year-old teenage boy. So I don't understand how family could have seen these children just physically looking at them and not thought something was seriously wrong with them. Because the videos show that these children who should be adults, who should be in their 20s, look like children, little kids, teenagers. Elizabeth Juarez is the one who said that they completely cut off contact with her. They would never let her see the children and that they wouldn't let her visit or talk to them or even be friends on Facebook after all those years. Your parents, I know they attempted over the years to try and see their daughter and their grandchildren. What happened when they would actually fly out to try and see them?

Well, my father actually got a flight to see them one time. I think it was actually in 2012. I'm not really positive, but around that time. And he was so hurt. And me and my dad were real close, and so he had called me, and she told him to not come. He got the ticket, he was going to surprise her, and he called her to tell her he was coming, and she told him not to come.

So many people are trying to understand. Your parents tried to contact them. You all were cut off from them. That why didn't you all, all somebody i'm sure in family gatherings you must have talked about this situation and why didn't anyone think to to reach out to the authorities just to check to see if everything was okay well when that happens for 20 years and it was before the kids even you know were there You don't think it's abnormal. You just think that they were always funny and private anyway, even before they ever had children. So you don't know if it had been

like two years ago that she cut us off, then we might think, wow, you know, something's not right. But this has been going on before they even had children. I mean, even before they had children, they were real private and they come around much. They did come around, but not much. Elizabeth Flores speaks out on ABC's GMA. So much is unfolding so quickly, but for people just joining us and hearing about this story, there were 13 children and everyone thought they were about 10 and under. One of them was 17. One was 29,

but they were so starved. They looked like they were 10 years old. What can you tell me also, we are learning that certain calls had been made to police or authorities and nothing was done. Do we know anything about the truth of that, Alexis Drozdchuk? So the police and the Department of Public Health said on the first day, well, when they first gave a press conference, that no calls had ever been made to or from this house, whether it was a 911 call or a welfare check. But other people are now coming out and saying that they have called and that the police didn't respond, that there was nothing done. This is what we've learned. Nancy Riverside District Attorney Michael Hestern, he tells us that the couple kept the children up all night, sleeping only during the day,

apparently in an effort to avoid any outsiders seeing the abuse. Often the kids went to bed between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m. each day. They were regularly beaten, occasionally strangled, he said. The parents began using chains and padlocks to tie the children to their beds after one escaped down a rope. They would sometimes be chained up for months. One of the older boys was allowed out of the home to attend college classes, but the mom accompanied him there, waiting for him to finish until he came home. The only activity the kids said that they were regularly allowed to do during the times that they were chained up was to write in journals, and investigators have recovered hundreds of these

notebooks from the home, and that's likely to be used as evidence in the case against the parents. Before Sunday's dramatic rescue, the children had been planning an escape for two years, according to the prosecutor. And finally, when the 17-year-old daughter escaped Sunday, she at first had one of her sisters with her, but that daughter got afraid and turned back. None of the children have seen a dentist ever, and none have seen a doctor for at least four years. The couple's youngest child, a two-year-old, was the only one apparently that they did not starve. The 29-year-old daughter was rescued weighing just 82 pounds. The children tied up or beaten if they washed their hands above the wrist because the parents said it amounted to them playing in the water

and they only were allowed to shower maybe twice a year. They had toys. The Turpins kept toys in the house, but they were still in their boxes, never given to any of the children. Listen to this. Why did they do this? I don't know that I can answer that completely,

but I'll tell you that as a prosecutor, there are cases that stick with you, that haunt you. And, you know, sometimes in this business, we're faced with looking at human depravity, and that's what we're looking at here. This is severe emotional, physical abuse. There's no way around that. This is depraved conduct. I want to pause and thank our partner making our program today, exposing what is happening, allegedly at the so-called House of Horrors LegalZoom.

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eventually began using chains and padlocks to chain up the victims these that I said these were a form of punishment meted out on these children and these adults. These punishments would last for weeks or even months at a time. You know what's interesting, Vincent Hill, private investigator, you and I have seen a lot of child abuse cases. In this case, when the children got to the police station, they couldn't even really stand and talk until they had something to eat and drink. Yeah, Nancy, this is a very troubling and sad case. You know, not only do you have the false imprisonment and the torture, you have the psychological aspect of this as well. And, you know, there's a lot of people asking, how could this have gone on for so long? How

were authorities not alerted? Well, Nancy, you know as well as I do, unless police are called to a location and they have probable cause to go in and do a welfare check, then police are not going to go by that location. So, you know, the parents were very, as sick as it sounds, they were very smart in doing what they did with the homeschooling because they were able to hide this for as long as they did. To Dr. Carol Lieberman, how can you work with these children to tell, to explain, to testify as to what happened? And do you believe that they're being treated physically and psychologically right now? I would hope so. The way that you start is by not really, you know, is by first getting them to trust you. One of the things that these children are going to have problems with is trust because of what's happened to them.

And so first you just kind of work on getting them to very slowly, getting them to trust you and talking about even just things in just everyday life. And then gradually you will get them to talk more and more about what actually happened. But it would be hard to just start right off the bat and say, so tell me how to tell me about your parents abusing you. So it has to be kind of a slow process in order to not do more damage to them. Listen, victim services provide provide services to the victims of all

crime types. In specific, these victims, there are so many that are minors and adults. We're going to be having three advocates that will be assisting and providing services to these children and adults. As Mike described, there are multiple issues with all these children and they are going to take long-term help. Our victim advocates court, they will work with CPS and we will provide long-term and short-term services to make sure that they are not re-victimized and that we can help them move as far ahead on their health as we can. Then there's the whole process of feeding them. When somebody has been starved, you don't just suddenly give them like a big Thanksgiving meal. You have to gradually condition them to take food again. I mean, they couldn't even speak to police. They were so hungry and thirsty. I'm just imagining

the condition of their skin from only having taken a bath twice a year to lying in urine and feces day in, day out. No physical activity. The physical condition they must be in is it's got to be horrific alexis what more do we know about where the children are right now and what condition they're in so the children have been taken to two separate medical facilities the children that are under 18 have gone to one the children that are over 18 have gone to another and what the people the doctors from both of these facilities have said is that they are very slowly refeeding them because they have not eaten in years, their whole lives. They can't, as you said, you can't just have a Big Mac. They have to slowly refeed them. They're checking them

out physically, making sure they're okay. He said the one doctor that had the Corona medical facility where the adults are said these children are, they have been so malnourished that they are just having to slowly bring them back into eating. But the one thing he did say is that they are hopeful for their future. He said they are very polite children. Everybody calls them children because they are these parents' children, even though these are the ones that are over 18. He said these individuals are very polite. They're very thoughtful. They're very cooperative. Nobody is fighting back. None of them are fighting back. They all wanted this help. And that they're hopeful that they're going to be healthy in the future. Nancy, let's listen to District Attorney Michael Hester. They're relieved. I will say that. They're in good hands. They're being cared for.

They're all in the hospital. Their well-being is being looked at. Their health is being looked at. They're in good hands. As far as where they're going to end up, we are going to do everything we can to assist them through our victim services division, and hopefully they'll be cared for throughout this process. The children admitted to hospitals for treatment for severe malnutrition near death. They are receiving antibiotics, food, vitamins, nutrients.

Take a listen. We have seven of the adults. It's hard to think of them as adults when you first see them because they're small, and it's very clear that they're malnutrition. We've done some lab work on them. We can tell you a lot about the hippo. Other than being stable, they're being fed to try to refeed, as was discussed. They're comfortable, and they're in a very safe and secure environment,

and that's the most important thing for them right now. We want to work closely with all the different agencies in the county to make sure that they're treated appropriately. And at this point, I think they're stable and safe. And with privacy, they've gone through a very traumatic ordeal. I can tell you that they're very friendly. They're very cooperative. And I believe that their life will get better for them after that. There's a major concern about the children going into shock right now.

Psychologists brought in to evaluate them as soon as their physical condition is improved. To Dr. Carol Lieberman, how does lack of nutrition affect a child mentally? Well, when it's a child, it's more important for a child to get proper nutrition than an adult. I mean, of course, it's important for all of us. But a child is growing. The brain is growing. Everything is growing. So, you know, missing certain vitamins and so on really can, you can have rickets. You can have all kinds of diseases, which is one of the things that they need to look for.

Besides slowly rehydrating and nourishing them. They also need to look for underlying medical problems because clearly it seems unlikely that these people, that these children got, you know, yearly checkups. And so they could have all kinds of problems in addition to or underlying what they had to go through, sitting in feces and so on. So plus, also, if you're tied to something, sometimes your limbs, you know, like you could be sitting on your leg in a certain way that it doesn't get enough blood and oxygen, and so you could be having problems with walking after that.

I mean, all kinds of things. So they're going to have to look at every system of the body to make sure that there is, to see what what's going on and then also to sort of over compensate for all the nutrients and vitamins and minerals that they've been missing we learn as alexis reporter earlier the home had never been fire inspected by the fire department that's required by the law according to a city official. Would that have made a difference? Would they have been saved sooner? It's a tan stucco home with brown and beige carpet.

According to the law, annual fire inspections have to be done because the Turpins had state approval to run a private school called Sandcastle Day School on the site. And he, Turpin, was listed as the principal. I guess that goes to their claim they were homeschooling. Because of that, there needed to be an annual fire inspection that never happened. Apparently, according to an assistant city clerk, there were none, no inspection records at all. Of course, they're not returning calls today. And as it turns out, no state agency regulates or even oversees private schools in California or homeschooling, but they are still subject to that annual inspection. Never happened. There, private schools are only required to register with the state and record their students' exemption from mandatory attendance at public

school. Beyond that, nothing was ever followed up, and these children have been suffering ever since. You know what's crazy, Alexis? I mean, we all smile for the camera when we're taking family pictures, but the way these children were trotted out in matching outfits and matching Disney t-shirts, and then taken back home and locked up to lie in feces and urine it's it's really diabolical and nobody knew we spoke with the the Elvis impersonator that did their wedding ceremony for three years it wasn't just like he met them one time he met them three years and he said he never knew he said they were so happy and they seemed like such nice kids and you watch the video and and they're funny and they sing along to the Elvis songs and they seemed like such nice kids and you watch the video and and they're funny and

they sing along to the Elvis songs and they dance then you realize that they weren't actually little kids I mean half of them were over 18 at the time it's so scary that they they could have put such a fam perfect family image forward when there were so many bad things that were happening behind the scenes. As justice unfolds in the so-called House of Horrors cases, what are the potential sentences these parents could, the two parents could face and the charges as well? Louise Turpin faces 37 charges while her husband faces 38. They're both charged with 12 counts of torture, 12 counts of false imprisonment,

seven charges of abusing a dependent child, and six counts of child abuse. David is also charged with one count of a lewd act against his child under the age of 14, the alleged victim, one of his daughters. These two are basically facing life behind bars. To Vincent Hill, private investigator, joining me on the case. If these children are unable to testify at trial, and typically, you know, I've had so many child abuse and molestation cases I prosecuted. If you work for a really long time

with a child, you can get them to a point where they can testify to the bare minimum to make your case. But these children may not be able to. How else could an investigator gather evidence to prove this case at trial without the children's testimony? Well, that's an excellent point, Nancy. Of course, especially with the younger children, the two-year-old and those that are still considered juvenile, they would send in special interviewers to get that information. But in this case, I think the authorities are going to rely on the physical evidence there at the scene. I think the evidence is quite clear what happened in this case. And, you know, I take it the same as a domestic violence case, right? Sometimes you don't need the victim to testify. You just rely on the physical evidence of the crime. And I think investigators have

enough in this situation. Take a listen. About the only thing the children were allowed to do in their rooms or chained up was to write in journals. We now have recovered those journals, hundreds of them, and we are combing through them for evidence. I think they will be very significant. I think those journals are going to be strong evidence of what occurred in that home. When I said I wanted to protect these victims, that doesn't mean they won't testify in court. It means that we want to protect them from being exploited. We want to protect them from being further traumatized by what they're going through now. In the last hours, the aunt of these children,

Elizabeth Flores, speaks out on ABC's GMA. Listen to what she said. Reach out to your sister now. I do. What do you want to say to her? I want her to know that she's still my blood and I love her. I don't agree with what she did.

And her actions has made the whole family suffer. But I want her to know that I'm praying for her salvation. And that we do love her. But mainly I want to reach out to the kids. I want them to know that years we've been able to Skype them. We've begged to see them, the whole family. I've asked for 20 years to be able to Skype them. And I want them to know that they do have family that they love, whether they know us or not.

I want you to know that. That love them. We all want explanations just like everyone else, probably more so. I want to know that when they feel alone and they feel like nobody cared and they felt like they had no family, that wasn't true. And so I want, I wanted the kids to know that there are people that love them and there's family that love them. And I hope to be able to see the children. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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