Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Did Brian Laundrie’s Parents Help Son Go On-The-Run With Attached Camper?

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

A warrant has been issued for Brian Laundrie, the boyfriend of deceased Gabby Petito, but in her death. A grand jury indicted Laundrie for his "use of unauthorized devices" after Petito died. Documents state that Laundrie used a debit card and PIN number for accounts that did not belong to him for charges totaling more than $1,000 between the dates of August 30 and September 1. The indictment does not identify the debit card owner. Meanwhile, the search for Laundrie continues. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Dale Carson - Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer, Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Paul Best - Reporter, FOX News & FOX Business Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. In the last hours, a federal indictment for the so-called boyfriend of Gabby Petito, Gabby now declared dead. We know the manner of death is homicide. Cause of death still not announced, but I can tell you this much. Those medical examiners, they know the cause of death because it was just a matter of hours from the time the autopsy started that they announced it's a homicide. I guarantee you they know that it was blunt force trauma, a bludgeoning, a beating, a strangulation, a gunshot wound, which I doubt, a stabbing. I guarantee you they know, but they're not releasing it. Meanwhile, on the other side of the country, we know that Brian Laundrie's parents have taken a trip, gone to parts unknown. This as that federal indictment is handed down out of the Federal District of Wyoming against Brian Laundrie.

But not for murder. Let's kick it off with our friend Katie Beck, NBC. Tonight, a federal arrest warrant has been issued for Brian Laundrie after a grand jury indictment. Investigators now five days into the massive manhunt. Earlier today, Brian's parents seem leaving their Florida home under police escort. The Ford Mustang they say their son drove to the reserve and left there returned after police towed it away earlier this week. With an extensive search coming up empty,

mounting questions about what directions authorities will go next. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and make sense of what we know right now. First of all, high-profile lawyer joining us out of the Jacksonville area, Dale Carson and former FBI agent, Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute at ColdCaseCrimes.org. Death Investigator, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first, to a special guest joining us, Fox News and Fox Business reporter, Paul Best, who has been in Northport, Florida for the duration. Paul Best, first of all, let's just figure out what is in this federal

indictment. The first thing you see across some of the releases by the feds is all the different ways you can charge somebody. It can be an information, which is basically when a prosecutor gets a piece of paper and goes, okay, I'm charging Brian Laundrie with credit card theft. You just write it up and that counts as a formal charge. I don't like informations. I like the formality of a grand jury. There was a grand jury in this case and they have handed down a count. Describe it, Paul Best.

What do you know? Yeah, absolutely. So the U.S. District Court of Wyoming yesterday issued this federal arrest warrant for Brian Laundrie. It alleges that he committed debit card fraud between August 30th and September 1st. And if I could just quickly note why that those days are important to our timeline of kind of where Brian was moving around that time. Just three days before August 30th, when he allegedly committed debit card fraud, was when he was seen in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, essentially in an altercation with the wait staff at a Tex-Mex restaurant. The Mary Pig, is that the one you're talking about? The Mary Pig,

that's the one I'm talking about. And witnesses, we talked to witnesses of this altercation. They tell us that Gabby Petito during this was visibly distraught, that she was apologizing to the waitstaff. And they also said that Brian Laundrie, while he wasn't being physically threatening, was clearly being aggressive and was clearly very upset about something. It's unclear what the argument was about. But that's kind of a key date in our timeline as we do things together.

Paul, I like where you're going so far. I like everything you've said so far. Have I ever said that? No, no. Usually I say, I hate everything you just said, but you just gave me so much information. Let's go over it. I love what you're telling me and explaining to me about the significance of those dates. Now, the feds put the dates in there because you usually have to have dates. For instance, when I would prosecute a child molestation case and the child couldn't remember the exact date. And I would work with the child and say, was the Christmas tree up? Were there Halloween

decorations up? And you would get a sense of the time of the incident. You can put a space of time like the feds have done in this indictment between August 29 and September 1. That's what they put in there. That's okay, but there has to be some kind of a time space in there. And it's significant because of what you said, the Mary Pig sighting by, it was a New Orleans woman who was there in Wyoming for a wedding with her friend, her boyfriend, I guess. And they go to this Mary Pig Tex-Mex. It's at lunchtime between one and two. I've looked, I found out there's not surveillance video. So everybody bring it down a notch. There's not surveillance video in the Mary Pig, but the Mary Pig has confirmed Brian Laundrie and Gabby Petito were there, which means I guess they've got a receipt

with their name on it. But it was bigger than just a little tiff because apparently Paul Best, joining us from Fox News, he went in and out of the Mary Pig four times raising H-E-double-L. We think something to do with a bill while the waitress or the maitre d' or the hostess was saying, well, we're sorry. We're sorry. And Gabby's like saying, I'm sorry. Right? That's absolutely true. Apparently, our witness tells us that there were four female waitstaff who Laundrie was essentially aggressively arguing with.

And like I said before, Petito is not a part of this other than just going in to try to apologize, try to calm the situation down. Anyhow, the Gabby and Brian eventually left the restaurant. Wait, just a minute. Paul Best, Paul Best, I know you're all about the facts, but I like to go beyond the facts, okay? Just hold on, Paul Best. Just take off your reporter hat one moment and pretend you're sitting around a big conference table in the district attorney's office, and we're all having a cup of tea and

coffee and we're figuring this whole thing out. I mean, Cheryl McCollum, my husband David, has never thrown any kind of fit like that in a restaurant because there would be a homicide in the parking lot. Me killing him. Okay. If anybody gets mad at the waitress or the waiter, it's me. If the twins don't have their food, but I keep it down because the last thing you want to do is antagonize the person carrying your food around. All right. But have you ever seen that? And I know you have some a-hole throwing a fit in the restaurant at the waitress who's trying her best to get you your food so you'll eat and leave. Leave her alone.

Right? Absolutely. But here's what stands out to me. The fact that he comes in and out more than four times tells me he does not have the ability of self-control. He believes everything is all about him. And he is not going to stop until he is satisfied. His fiancee cannot calm him down. The manager can't calm him down. The fact there's a room full of strangers staring at him has no effect. Again, I'm going to tell you, he cannot hide who he truly is.

And you know what, Dr. Angela Arnold, Sakai's was joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Angie, I, of course, again, I'm just a JD, you're the MD. I don't think that you just jump up and have that behavior overnight. I think you learn that from watching people in your family. I agree. Because we would, H-E-double-L would freeze over before my husband or really any of us would throw some kind of a fit in a restaurant at a waitress. First of all, I was a waitress in law school who's making minimum wage and tips. And what they don't deserve is to get berated by an angry person, especially someone threatening. You learn that kind of behavior to misbehave in public. You know what else you learn, Nancy?

What? You don't learn how to keep your emotions in check because that's something else that you learn from your parents. As I've said before, I do believe that this man is a full-on sociopath. Now, at first, sociopaths are very charming, but they are easily agitated when they don't have control over a situation. So this incident just leads more credence to his diagnosis, which is a personality disorder, that he is a sociopath. Now, wait just a minute. You don't think you're reading a little too much into it, Dr. Angie? I'm not saying he's not a sociopath, but just because he threw a fit at a restaurant,

I don't know that that means he's got a... I think it shows, Nancy Nancy that he's unraveling. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Paul Best, back to the indictment. There's one count and everybody's screaming, why is it not a count for murder? And I say, wait a minute. Don't take the cake out of the oven before it's done. Because, you know, if they come down with an indictment right now for murder, it would be so easy for a defense team to slap a speedy on them, which means you've got to try the entire case within that grand jury term or the next grand jury term. That's like six months. The state has to have all their ducks in a row before they bring down a murder charge.

Right? Let's get back to the indictment. Go ahead. Sorry. Wait, I hear Dale Carson, I think. 70 days in federal district courts being trialed. 70 days, which isn't enough time to prepare for a murder trial. Not at all.

Nancy, I just want to note that the FBI seems to be kind of following exactly that strategy in this. The FBI special agent in charge in the Denver field office actually said yesterday, while the warrant allows law enforcement to arrest Laundrie. The FBI and law enforcement partners across the country are continuing to investigate the facts and circumstances of Petito's homicide. So it's just like you said, this can allow them to bring Laundrie in. Okay, Paul Best, Paul Best, not everybody is a crack investigative reporter or a lawyer or law enforcement.

So could you just, you got me drinking out of the fire hydrant. It's too much too fast. Can you slow that down and speak in regular people talk? The field office said what the FBI field office said. Well, it's it's it's like you said, this essentially allows them to bring laundry in and could, you know, and it turns this into a fugitive manhunt in the search for him as opposed. But as far as we know, he's still only a person of interest in Petito's disappearance and

eventual homicide. Now, for what it's worth, Laundrie's attorney told us yesterday that it's his understanding that, quote, the arrest warrant for brian laundry is related to activities occurring after the death of gabby petito and not related to her actual demise take that for what you will okay hold on hold on hold on i want to examine what you just said i think that's joe scott jumping in joe scott i know you're a death investigator but you've been around us lawyers for a long time. What about that lawyer parsing words?

He's like, hello, whoa, wait, this isn't about killing Gabby. This is about stealing her money while her body's decomposing out in the Wyoming wild. I want to just make that clear. There's no nice way to put this, but he tried. No, there's not. And of course, he's going to say that. And again, this is a federal charge that they're bringing upon him. The homicide charge will be a state charge. But let me tell you what the feds have done by indicting him or bringing this warrant up relative to Laundrie. And this is very important, Nancy. Now, because he has this warrant, this paper on him, this initiates U.S.

Marshal service at this point in time. Oh, you do not want to mess with the U.S. Marshal. No, you do not. Did I ever tell you that my personal investigator and bodyguard in the D.A.'s office, my first one went on to be the U.S. Marshal in the Northern District, Robert McMichaels, former NFLer. Great guy.

They don't play. You get the U.S. Marshal on your tail, it's over. You might as well give in. And this is what they specialize in, Nancy. You know, people forget about that. That's that, you know, obviously they did court security and all that. But this is their claim to fame. They're going to put their people on it.

And boy, let me tell you something. Once they dig their teeth into you, God help you. You just gave me an idea. Paul Bass, claim to fame. They're going to put their people on it. And, boy, let me tell you something. Once they dig their teeth into you, God help you. You just gave me an idea. Paul Best, back to you. Guys, special guest joining us is Paul Best, Fox News reporter who has been there in Northport from the get-go. Critical question, Paul Best. Is it local law enforcement or is it the feds out there in the Carleton Reserve? So it's a lot of local law enforcement, Venice Police Department, which is nearby, Northport Police Department, Sarasota County Sheriff's Office, who are assisting.

But as far as we know, the FBI has taken over the search. But are the feds at carlton reserve because if they're not that tells me they don't think laundry is out there if the feds are not out there in that dark water we spoke with um a professional recovery diver yesterday and he said that water is contaminated because all the animals, not just fish, but animals living in it, dying in it, defecating in it, the water is contaminated. Swamp water. And they have to wear full on dry suits. They don't want the water to get into a wet suit next to their body. And that the water is as black as black coffee. And if the feds are out there in that black water,

then I think they suspect either Laundrie or evidence relating to Laundrie and Gabby are out there. If it's not the feds in that water, then I don't know that the feds really think he's there. Paul Best. Yeah, it's been mostly, it's been, you know, so I spent some time over the past week at Carleton Reserve. It's been mostly local law enforcement. We know the feds are involved, absent from the case, but it's been mostly local law enforcement. And I do want to note that that's absolutely true what you just said. The Carleton Reserve is an unforgiving place. There's no fresh water. There's hardly anything edible. It's 75% water. And this is murky, gross algae balloons everywhere. And, you know, from everything that I've gathered, I've talked to some of Gabby and Brian's friends. We know that Brian was an experienced outdoorsman

that he spent a lot of time on the Appalachian Trail after high school. Gabby's mom actually previously told me that, you know, Brian was the one who was more the expert at outdoors and was trying to teach Gabby that sort of stuff. But even with that experience, the Carlton Reserve is not a place that people go to, you know, stay for any amount of time. Can I tell you something, Paul Best? I just took the twins to, my children, to an eco lodge and a swamp outing to Okefenokee Swamp, which is not that far away from Carleton Reserve. Long story short, when we got in the skiff,

we counted 40, 4-0 gators up ahead of us. There is no way I would have put one finger in that water if I wanted to keep it. So that's what we're talking about. Hey, listen to this. Paul Best, our cut 147. This was Bjorn Storn's Venice Outdoor Sports. Listen. It's a mix of ecosystems.

I mean, there's some upland hardwood forest, some lowland wetlands, that sort of thing. Right now, at this time of year, though, with all the rain that we've been having, it's pretty much all a wetland. I mean, there's probably waste to chest deep water out there. I was out there in July and I actually had my dog with me and it got up to almost chest deep water. He was behind me having a tough time. So would people go out there, so you mentioned hiking, would people go out there to kayak? What else do people do out there? I mean, the Myakka River runs through the preserve, so yeah, there is kayaking there. There's a lot of mountain bike trails as well. It's a really, really big

reserve, so there's a lot of stuff to do, and there's a lot of places that this guy could possibly be. What is the reality of somebody actually surviving out there in this park for a week? If they know what they're doing, it's easy. You know, right now there's plenty of water, there's plenty of fish to eat. You know, if you know your wild edibles, you know, you'll be fine out there indefinitely if you know what you're doing. So do you, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, is he going to pull a Rudolph, an Eric Rudolph on us? Absolutely. He is absolutely only going to be caught when he makes a mistake. Think about the parents. His parents are not searching for him. They are not frantic. They're cutting the grass and running errands and drinking coffee.

They know where he is and that he is safe. The reason they took that camper and drove with him was not for a campout. It was to drop him off so that they could stay in that camper and not have a record of hotel rooms so that we don't know the direction they dropped him off in. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Hey, Paul Best, in a nutshell, since I asked you at the beginning of our program and I still didn't get an answer because I let us off track, what does the indictment allege? One count. Go ahead.

Yeah, well, the indictment alleges that Laundrie committed debit card fraud. And that's it, that he accessed someone else's device. It's kind of unclear. We've asked law enforcement if this is specifically for Gabby Petito. I know that's kind of the implication here. But that it's debit card fraud between August 30th and September 1st, which is a three-day period. And I'll also note that September 1st is the day that Laundrie arrived back in Newport at his home where their trip initially began. Paul Best, who has been in Northport from the get-go. Paul Best, explain what has happened regarding

Brian Laundrie's parents. Hey, there's been a big discussion about was Laundrie ever in the home after September 1. Well, now we know that he was. The day that Gabby's parents report her missing, that day, wow, that's some timing,

huh, Paul Best? It is. The parents pack him up in their new attached camper, which means the kind you drag behind you, to their truck. The two adults and laundry, all three leave. And the attached camper is one of the little ones. So what, all three of them are going to live in the baby camper? What happened, Paul Best? It is a bizarre chain of events.

September, yeah, September 11th, that weekend, the neighbors who live directly across the street from the laundries tell us that right around that time, they all packed up into this recently purchased camper and left for a few days. They don't have an exact timeframe for that because they didn't think too much of it at the time. Gabby hadn't even been reported missing officially yet. But then, you know, as things transpired, they thought, wait, that's weird that this family right then would leave and go for a few days

on a camping trip. I'll also say that just three days after that, on September 14th, a Tuesday, is when Brian's parents have told law enforcement that he left and went to the reserve that we were just discussing. And that's the last time that he's been seen, according to his parents. Hey, Paul, question, question. So they take off, the parents and Brian Laundrie, on September 11, 9-11, the day, the very day Gabby's parents report her missing. Not them.

Gabby's parents report her missing. They take off with an attached camper, the three of them. The parents come back. Did any neighbor or anybody see Brian Laundrie come back? No neighbors that I've talked to have seen Brian Laundrie come back. The story from Brian's parents is that he was back and that he left in that silver Mustang that's been parked in their driveway on September 14th, which is a Tuesday.

And then they didn't report him missing. This is another kind of bizarre part of the chain of events and the timeline we're building until the next Friday. So three days later, the Laundries called law enforcement and actually reported him missing. 72 hours is a long time. Take a listen to our cut 146. This is Josh Cascio, Fox 13. Number one, that silver Mustang, the Mustang that was over at the police department,

that has been returned home. In fact, you can probably see it right there behind me in front of that red Dodge Ram pickup. We also saw the Laundrie parents leave their home for a pretty significant amount of time today. In fact, they just returned home. They were just about to leave the house. They were just about to leave the Dodge Ram pickup. We also saw the laundry parents leave their home for a pretty significant amount of time

today. In fact, they just returned home about 15 or 20 minutes ago. Reporters shouting questions at them. No response from the family. But when they left initially, I will say that was all caught on camera by Fox News cameras. This is right around eight in the morning. Then they returned back shortly after with that silver Mustang. Again, it was sitting at the Northport Police Department. Remember, that's the car that Brian supposedly

used to take to the reserve where they've been searching to no avail. Now, after Laundrie's mom parked the car, she got back in the pickup and they were seen leaving the neighborhood with what appears to be a law enforcement vehicle leaving the neighborhood not far behind them. We don't know where they were heading. Unclear. We checked with police. They wouldn't speculate. So to you, Cheryl McCollum, director of Cold Case Research Institute, I certainly hope and I'm sure that they did check that steering wheel of that silver Mustang to figure out who really drove it to Carleton Reserve or have the prints been destroyed?

Because the parents then say, they say, they went and got the Mustang and brought it back. So their prints would be all over the wheel. Now, there's two stories. Are they not that he left with a backpack saying he was going to the Carleton Reserve and that he took the Mustang. Nancy, anywhere that his parents tell us to look is bogus. They have decided where law enforcement should look by planning that car there possibly, certainly going and getting it and driving it away. They destroyed any evidence that could have been inside that car.

Yeah, because the car is already back. The car is already back at the home. There's no reason for them to even spend a lot of time on there. There's a reason that Brian's prints would be in there. There's reasons his dad's prints would be in there and his mom's. And that's not going to help them. What's going to help them is, again, looking at the conversations, text messages, and calls between those three people. You know, Brian Laundrie has got to be using a burner phone of some type.

Okay, to you, Joe Scott Morgan, I agree with Cheryl. I don't think they're going to get anything useful. I don't think they got anything useful out of the Mustang. No, I don't think they did either. And to Mac's point, I think, and I don't know, tell me, Mac, what you think. If that car was significant, you wouldn't see it in the driveway. They wouldn't already have it back. They're going to hang on to this vehicle for a protracted period of time. Let's break it down from a mama's point of view. Your daughter-in-law future is missing your son says i'm going to go for a hike and then

he doesn't come home you would be out of your mind frantic she's not you would have your siblings and potentially your parents and best friends at your side they don't have any of those people no clergy nothing They are not out searching for that boy. Let me tell you something. Everybody with a camera would be in the front living room of that home. They'd all be sitting on the sofa. How many times have I seen this on television? People would be squalling and weeping and carrying on and everything. You're not seeing this. And one more thing about him and tracking him relative to all of this and trying to figure out where he is. This whole thing is going to turn

on electronic evidence leading up to this point. Now, I got to throw this out there, Nancy. I don't know if he's using a burner phone. He may be completely in the wind where he is untethered, kind of rudderless. That's just out there. He's ditched everything at this point. And the only way he's going to be able to get by is if someone went out and acquired a pile of cash from him. And again, that's going to be traceable. You know, if they've gone out and withdrawn a bunch of cash and said, here's son, here's the cash. Good luck. God bless. Don't let the door hit you in the tail end.

I don't think that's what they said because their necks are now on the chopping block too. Dale Carson, a high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former FBI agent. What do you think happened? Well, it's pretty obvious from my perspective, the family's not concerned and there's a reason that they're not concerned. It's because they know where he is and they know he's safe and they know he's not in harm's way. And when we try to track somebody in the wilderness, that scares the dickens out of family members because they're concerned that we will find and get in a firefight with the individual and he'll end up deceased. So they must know where he is, and they're just not saying. So, Cheryl, what do you think happened when they took off the three of them

with that tiny little attached camper on the back of a truck? I think they drove him at least 24 hours away from here. And, again, they used the camper so they didn't have a money trail or a paper trail for hotels. They used cash so they don't know a money trail or a paper trail for hotels. They used cash so they don't know where they bought gasoline or food. And that boy is gone. But he will, just like Eric Robert Rudolph, make a mistake. And law enforcement will not. We're talking about Eric Robert Rudolph, who was the Atlanta Olympic bomber. He bombed not only the Atlanta Olympics back in the 90s,

but then he rigged a double bomb at an abortion clinic and then across the street. And I'd like to remind you, Cheryl, because you were with me at the time, that some of that shrapnel of the abortion clinic bombing, the second one, he set up the abortion clinic bomb, waited for all of the law enforcement to get there. And when they were all standing there, a second bomb went off. That hit my second and last investigator of 10 years. That shrapnel hit him, Eric Rudolph. Then he went and hid on the Appalachian Trail for, what,

three years, I think it was, before he was caught digging through a dumpster. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. That to you, Paul Best, reporter with Fox News. What do you make of Cheryl McCollum's assertion? Yeah, look, I think wherever Brian Laundrie is, whether that kind of thought that his parents may have driven him far away or whether he is in some part of Florida, some swamp landpland, I think law enforcement is going to track him. And if law enforcement doesn't do it, I'll just say social media and the traditional media also here at Fox News, we've gotten a lot of scoops here. And I think someone is going to spot him.

It's going to spread like wildfire and law enforcement is going to be able to track him down from there. I mean, let's just really quickly, a lot of the biggest scoops in this case from late August through September have come from kind of claims on TikTok or Twitter or Reddit that seemed kind of innocuous at first, but ended up leading to a big break in the case. I mean, just really quickly on August 27th, after this kerfuffle, this big incident at this Jackson Hole, Wyoming restaurant, the way that they found where Brian and Gabby went next, about four and a half hours after that, a YouTube family that just vlogs and kind of tours national parks and puts that on the

internet. It was them who said, hey, wait, we saw that white camper van in Grand Teton National Park and law enforcement from there, from that tip, knew to search that area. And that's near where they eventually found Petito's remains, tragically. So wherever Brian is currently, I am confident that there are people all over the country, all over the world, frankly, who are captivated by this case, invested in it, and he will be spotted eventually. And I think law enforcement will be able to follow up on those tips and bring him into custody. How long were they gone with the truck and the attached camper? How many days?

Three? It's unclear exactly just because the neighbors across the street who saw it didn't think too much of it at the time, but they tell us a few days. We don't have an exact time frame. I'd split that in half, Joe Scott. I would split that in half. If he's gone three days, I'd figure out how far you can get in a day and a half. Oh, yeah.

And a day and a half back. And another thing, get that nav. Get the cell phone pings and the truck navigation instrument and figure out where that truck went. Yeah, these digital breadcrumbs all the way around. And I think this is a great idea relative to how far they could get at this point in time. And Lord knows, I mean, there's any number of locations you could go to and any number of spurs for for interstate highways all over Florida. I mean, think about how many of those come together, the confluences of you go north, south. Well, you wouldn't necessarily go that far south, but you can go east and west, certainly. Head up north, take the I-95 corridor, or head out west on the I-10 corridor,

75, you're going up toward the Great Lakes. So you've got all of these opportunities to get out there. The trick is, what kind of conveyance would they have gotten him into in order to facilitate that? And one last thing, we can't also forget Florida's surrounded by water. And is there an opportunity he could have hopped a boat somewhere? Guys, we were talking about the whereabouts of Brian Laundrie, the so-called boyfriend of Gabby Petito, 22, found dead out in Wyoming. So the indictment is one count of debit card fraud up to and over $1,000, which makes it a felony, that he used between August, what was it, Paul Best, between August 29 and September 1? It was August 30th and September 1. Thank you.

August 30th and September 1. They're not saying it was Gabby's debit card, but of course it was Gabby's debit card. They also are not telling us, and I wonder why, where he used the debit cards. Dr. Angela Arnold, doesn't that just beat all? He's in her van using her debit card and she's dead. To me, it just goes to show how emboldened he is. I mean, the worst thing he's done is kill her. Isn't that right? Nothing beats that. Nothing tops him killing her.

But all of these other things show to me that he has no conscience. He literally has no conscience. I'll tell you what I'm worried about. I'm worried about the next person he's going to kill that gets in his way. I haven't thought of that yet. Thank you, Dr. Angie, for putting that in my head. Joe Carson, how can we figure out where the parents took him and that attached camper? Well, you know, the reason we know he was back September 1 is there's a tag, an automobile tag, and they're all over the place now. 1026, rolling into Northport that morning.

Yep. That's right. And so that's everywhere. It's ubiquitous now when you pass through a toll area. So they'll find out where the direction they went with the camper. And my thought is that he was always living somewhere around the camper, right? So leaving with him in it, it just makes perfect sense. How else would you do that in order to get your kid out of harm's way?

Jackie would like to remind everyone that Brian Laundrie has not been charged with murder. She has yet on there. What do you think they're waiting on? Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum. What would they need for a murder indictment? I think what we're watching is really good police work. I think the fact that they are going the federal route with him using her debit card gets them into all the electronics he would

have been using. They're going to piece this thing together the right way because they've got one shot. And Nancy, I just want to point out that he used her debit card, her cell phone possibly, and her van to try to get away with killing her. Okay, we know that. So your conclusion is? Again, I think for potential jurors, that's going to be so incredible because that normally doesn't happen. You know, they may steal a car of the, you know, victim to get away, but this person has used her money, her van, her cell phone to send bogus messages, all of her things to get away with this crime. Well, and it also tells us most likely that there have been a lot of theories about how the camper got back from Wyoming. But this is going to confirm the use of her debit cards is going to confirm it was laundry. Because Paul Best, what they're going to do is figure out where the debit card was used

and then go get the surveillance video. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think that's kind of where they're at now is law enforcement is working backwards and trying to track every single one of Laundrie's movements. And from there, they can potentially reach other crimes and indictments. So right now, go ahead, jump in. It's important to note that there is no federal murder charge. Yeah, that'll be tried by the state. The state in Wyoming is going to try that.

On a single count of debit card fraud, you're looking at up to 10 years behind bars. Right now, we are waiting as justice unfolds. Where is Brian Laundrie? What is the actual cause of death of 22-year-old Gabby Petito? Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.