Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Did Bryan Kohberger "VISUAL SNOW SYNDROME" Trigger Murders?

Episode Date: March 23, 2023

Visual snow syndrome is a rare neurological condition in which a person sees "static" in their vision. You could compare it to looking at a tv screen that has no picture, just a black and white snow-like image. Only about  2% of the population has the illness. Is accused murderer Bryan Kohberger among them? Kohberger reportedly wrote about the condition in a series of posts during his teenage years. Doctors say depresssion, anxiety and poor sleep are common side effects. Nancy Grace talks with Dr. Chloe Carmichael, a clinical psychologist, and author of  ‘Nervous Energy: Harness The Power of Your Anxiety”  about the disorder.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, we learned that accused killer Brian Koberger is detailing his visual snow battle in posts. What? What is a visual snow syndrome? Why is there a battle? And my immediate concern is, can he somehow use this at trial as a defense? With me, a renowned psychologist, clinical psychologist, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, best-selling author of Nervous Energy, Harness the Power of Your Anxiety, and you can find her at drchloe.com. Dr. Chloe Carmichael, thank you for being with us. What is visual snow syndrome? Hi, Nancy. Good to be with you as well. So visual snow syndrome is a visual

hallucination in which, you know, you might be seeing kind of like when you watch TV and there's a poor connection, they call it snow, when you might see a little bit of an overlay like that around you. One thing I do think that's interesting about Brian asserting that he struggles with this is that I believe he actually is also has described himself, I think, as a former heroin addict, if I'm not mistaken. And actually, visual snow can be a side effect sometimes of some of the brain changes that can occur with serious long-term drug use. So I can't help but wonder if there could be a connection there. Dr. Chloe Carmichael-Wayne, and I understand that Koberger actually writes about his so-called battle with visual snow syndrome.

And I'm trying to find out about it. Is it not some rare neurological condition? It's definitely very rare. And you're absolutely correct to tie it to the brain, which again is why in some cases, it's actually associated with drug use. And, you know, as for him saying that he's had a battle with it, personally, I would be curious to know if he actually went and ever requested or received treatment for it. What does it do to you, Dr. Chloe? Well, I mean, certainly it can obviously be annoying and frustrating. There can be anxiety and depression that just,

you know, come from having this visual snow effect, you know, happening wherever you're going. There's not a lot of research that's actually been done about it. But, you know, again, with his drug use, we don't really know a lot about, or at least I don't know a lot about, what kind of treatment he may have received post-drug use. Because people don't, when they become a drug addict, a serious drug addict of heroin, as I believe was the case in his situation, they're running from something. They're trying to escape something. There's an unresolved issue. But if you just stop the drug use, but you don't deal with the underlying issue, then you're kind of like what they call a dry drunk, right?

You may have stopped the drug use, but you haven't dealt with the underlying issue. So let me understand, Dr. Chloe. So in your regular life, for instance, right now, as I'm looking at the camera, I would see a snowy field like I'm looking at a bad reception screen on the TV. Yes. So in your regular life, is it constant or does it come and go? They say that it can come and go and that it can especially tend to arise during periods of stress or anxiety and that it can also be associated with migraines. You know what?

It's reminding me of those people that have tinnitus. They have a constant sound in their ear like all the time, 24-7, 365. It's associated with tinnitus. Really? Mm-hmm. Because I just thought of like this constant thing that's buzzing and this snow syndrome, visual snow syndrome, sounds like something that's constant that may come in and out. And you're saying it can be exacerbated during stressful moments? Yes, that is what is said about it.

Though I would say, again, that there's limited research on it because it is so rare. Let me ask you this. In your experience, guys, I'm talking to Dr. Chloe Carmichael, renowned psychologist, and you can find her at drchloe.com. Dr. Chloe, do you believe that I'm thinking of the trial, I'm already like five steps ahead of this, thinking how can he use this? Because he reportedly starts complaining about it at age 17, which is around the time, as you accurately pointed out, Dr. Chloe, that friends or associates of his have stated that

he used heroin and then got clean. So can he use it somehow at trial? Question to you, Dr. Chloe, have you ever heard of a theory where the visual snow syndrome incites violence? No, I personally never have. And I actually think that it would be a real sneer and very detrimental if he were to suggest that somehow because of his visual snow syndrome or because of him being a recovering addict, that that in any way should be a rationale for him committing these brutal murders. Because what is that saying about innocent people everywhere that may have visual snow or who may be in recovery? There's really no justifiable reason why those things would lead to him becoming a homicidal maniac. Dr. Chloe Carmichael, you're so pure. Have you ever heard of the Twinkie defense? Because you're saying, how could someone dare use visual snow syndrome as a defense? The Twinkie defense,

I committed murder because I had too many Twinkies or the PMS defense. I was crazy because I was having cramps and I was just angry that day. I could absolutely... Well, that would only contribute to the fact, to the more the idea of him being an entitled and grandiose person who likes to think that there's something about him that's special that would justify him being able to do things that other people would not. And I agree with you. You know, people can indict a ham sandwich and they can say a Twinkie made them do it, but that doesn't mean it's true. You know what?

You're so right, Dr. Chloe. I'm just wondering if somehow he can twist this thing, if not at trial, because to use a defense like that is kind of like an insanity defense or a or an alcohol defense you'd have to say yes I did it but I did it because I was incited by visual snow syndrome I don't think that's going to happen but I could see it at mitigation him saying okay I did it it's been proven you found me guilty but this is why I did it because the visual snow syndrome it just I I really I don't see how that could be personally because you know again it is a visual hallucination but this was a premeditated situation it's not even like he was just you know sitting somewhere and then suddenly a powerful hallucination

came upon him and he thought he had to reach out and stab you know because he was fighting a hallucination this appears to have occurred completely independently of hallucinations at least from what I can tell okay you're on to something right there yet again dr. Chloe because it would not have been an immediate act like a delusion or an uncontrollable impulse because he had to plan this out. He stalked them. He made contact with them online. He had to drive over there in the cover of darkness.

He wore all black. He brought in a weapon, and then he took an alternate route home, only turning his cell phone on once he had left the premises. All of that, as you're saying, is premeditation and not a sudden impulse or delusion. A reaction to a hallucination, exactly. So bottom line, you could tell a jury in full confidence, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, it ain't true. It didn't happen. It's not because of visual snow. Yeah, I would say in my opinion,

I would not see an association or a justification there. Correct. Okay. And I'd also be interested, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, did he ever seek neurorehabilitation? Did he ever get treated for it?

Or is he just like talking out of his rear end technical legal term? Another thing that may actually trigger more of his visual snow is that has just been announced. Brian Koberger could face the firing squad there in Idaho because of the shortage of the lethal injection medicines. Okay, could something like that, a traumatic revelation, trigger the visual snow syndrome? And don't get me wrong, Dr. Chloe, I don't care. He killed four people, four innocent people. If he sees static in front of his eyes, I'm not that concerned. But would something like that revelation trigger his visual snow syndrome?

Well, I would certainly see where it could since we know that visual snow can be triggered by stress. And I can see where that would cause him stress, certainly. Though, like you said, I mean, if indeed he is guilty, then, you know, he would deserve to feel a certain amount of discomfort about, you know, what may be coming. And as to your point as well about the battling part, if he really had been battling this, I would certainly be curious to see if he'd ever sought any treatment. It appears that he spent the bulk of his time trying to, you know, study criminal sciences and, you know, potentially prepare his knowledge so that it could become a cover for him. But it appears, you know, more so than that he was earnestly seeking treatment and trying to make sure that he never became a danger to anybody. It certainly doesn't appear that way. Well, Dr. Chloe, I agree with you.

This is absolutely no defense. And, of course, learning he may face a firing squad could trigger it behind bars. And then it would be documented behind bars that he did have another bout, a recurrence of visual snow syndrome. Will it work with the jury? Probably not. And I agree with you, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, again, that that is not a reason to incite violence, much less a well-thought-out spree killing. Of course, keeping in mind the Twinkie defense and the PMS defense,

you never know what's going to happen. And this is the first time, let me say on the record, I have ever considered visual snow syndrome to somehow be a trial tactic. But we wait as justice unfolds. Thank you, Dr. Chloe, so much as always. Goodbye. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.