Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Did CULT-MOM LORI VALLOW order Amazon wedding band and 'beach wedding gown' BEFORE GROOM'S WIFE FOUND DEAD?

Episode Date: March 31, 2020

Lori Vallow's children have still not been found, but documentation has surfaced showing that she bought a wedding ring and dress online before Chad Daybell's wife Tammy died. What's more, a leaked email shows, the so-called cult mom may soon be facing charges in her Charles Vallow, her previous husband's death.With Nancy Grace today to discuss: Kathleen Murphy - North Carolina, Family Attorney, www.ncdomesticlaw.com James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Major Case detective, SWAT Officer (RET) Attorney Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" Dr Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta Ga Ray Caputo - Lead News Anchor for Orlando's Morning News, 96.5 WDBO Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. allow cult mom Lori Vallow, the newlywed, to walk free from the jail. Vallow refusing to tell not only police, but a judge and even her own family, where are her two children, 7-year-old JJ, 17-year-old Tylee, missing now for months. Cult mom Lori Vallow refusing to state where they are or even if they're safe. Not only that, does an Amazon order allegedly made by cult mom Lori Vallow indicate premeditated murder? Uh-oh, Amazon, get ready to fork over your files. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cult mom Lori Vallow. The saga goes on. Seemingly every 24 hours we find out something new and something

disturbing about a woman who refuses to tell authorities or a judge where her missing children are. J.J. is seven, Tylee is 17. She's called Cult Mom because she remarried about two weeks or so after her third or fourth husband was shot dead to a man obsessed with cults, doomsday cults, end-of-time cults. He's written 25 books on them. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here on Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. The beat goes on with Lori Vallow. And I want you to first hear the latest, see what you make of it.

Take a listen to our friend at EastIdahoNews.com, Nate Eaton. Back in October, at the beginning of October, Chad Daybell was still married to Tammy Daybell. She died on October 19th. But on October 2nd, we have uncovered from an Amazon account that Lori was using the purchase of her wedding ring. Had it shipped to her address in Rexburg under the name of Charles Vallow, her ex-husband. And we're told that she repeatedly used Charles's Amazon account after he passed away. So it's interesting that on October 2nd, she would purchase the

wedding ring that she was then photographed in getting married to Chad on the beach. Weeks later, she bought the ring when Tammy was still alive. And that's the same day that she and Chad, a man we believe is Chad, visited the storage unit in Rexburg. And that's the same day that Brandon Bordeaux was shot at in Arizona. So a lot was happening on that day with a lot of different players. Yeah, a lot was happening using her dead husband, Charles Vallow's Amazon account, to buy her wedding ring. And that wedding ring has been matched up to one she's wearing at her Hawaii beachside ceremony. How did this whole thing unfold?

Of course, you know, you're going to have defense attorneys arguing that this doesn't mean she's a murderer. This means she was just looking forward to her wedding. What wedding? Her groom was still married. Joining me, an all-star panel. Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, ncdomesticlaw.com. James Shelnut, 27 years, Metro major case, SWAT, now lawyer.

Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, renowned psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Dr. Angela Arnold, and boy, do we need a shrink. But first, to lead news anchor, Orlando's Morning News, WDBO, Ray Caputo. I understand that cult mom, Lori Vallow, who thinks literally, if you read her divorce papers, thinks that she is a god who is charged with leading the worthy. Sadly, Jackie, I'm pretty sure we're not one of them. The 140,000 or so that are going to get to go to the New Jerusalem

after the Great War set to happen this July. Basically, the end of the world. She is going to live, according to her. So, cult mom Lori Vallow goes

online on her hubby's, dead hubby's, Amazon account and orders a wedding ring, a, hold on, wait for it, a beach wedding dress, white slacks, and shirt. And this is according to Nate Eaton with eastIdahoNews.com. On 10-2, October 2, and her groom's wife mysteriously dies in her sleep. 17 days later, 10-19. That's quite the coincidence, Ray Caputo, Orlando News. How did we find out about the wedding ring order? Well, I think it came from Charles' sister. It's kind of, I've been reading a lot of the stuff here and how it popped up, but nevertheless,

we got screenshots right now of purchases and they're believed to be hers. You know, and Nancy, a lot of families share Amazon accounts. They share credit cards. The big difference is, is that the spouse is still alive and not in the case of Lori. She goes and she buys this size four sterling silver Southwestern style malachite gemstone. It's a lot to say there. But the actual stone has some meaning, too. It's called the Stone of Transformation.

And some say they use it for energy cleaning. So that's another twisted, weird story. Wait. Malachite. Isn't that the black, shiny, metallic-looking stone? Am I wrong? It's the one that she has in the picture. What does it look like, Caputo?

What does it look like? It's a darker stone. Yeah, I mean, I'm not good with this stuff. Jackie, let me have a picture of Malachite. I think I know what it is because the twins love to go panning for gold and gemstones. And you know, it's all rigged, but they find all these stones. I'm pretty sure I remember Malachite. But wait, I want to get back to how was this? Okay. Oh, it's a lot of it's green, beautiful green. It's not black. So hold on. it's my understanding as you were just saying ray caputo that dead

husband number four charles valo was shot dead by laurie valo's brother alex charles valo's sister jj's bio grandma k woodcock discovered the purchase of the wedding band because she hooked up Charles's printer to her computer in November to print something out. And that is how, when she connected the printer, she saw the things that had been ordered on Amazon. Now that is according to Kay, who has visited with us before, Charles Vallow's sister. That's how it all came out. So tell me what else do you know that cult mom had ordered for her wedding before her groom's wife died in her sleep? Well, it was clear they were planning a wedding because it wasn't just a wedding ring. It was also clothes for people to wear

at a beach wedding. There was a shirt. There was also a dress. And there was other things she was looking for, like bathing suits. This clearly wasn't someone who was worried about her missing children or other things. She was a woman who had her eyes on

getting married in a few weeks, as it appeared. A, quote, beach wedding dress, white slacks, and shirt. I wonder if that was for the husband. Because in her wedding photo, she's wearing a white beach dress with a Hawaiian lei and the ring, and the new husband, Daybell, Chad Daybell, is wearing white slacks and a white shirt. I'm pretty sure about that, Jack.

You pull up their pictures. In the meanwhile, take a listen again to our friend at eastidahonews.com, Nate Eaton. It's interesting that she was shopping for the wedding ring and actually purchased the wedding ring weeks before Chad's wife had actually died. Also, on the same computer that she was using, we're told that she was looking for wedding dresses the very next day on October 3rd. Now, a lot of people are wondering, well, does that prove that they planned Tammy's death? Was this wedding pre-planned before Tammy's death?

Well, that'll be up for the prosecutor to decide and for the detectives to determine, but this possibly could be maybe a clue in premeditation or something along those lines where this wedding was preplanned. The ring was purchased. She was shopping for wedding dresses. All of this was happening weeks before Tammy's sudden death. And as for Tammy's death, we are still waiting on that autopsy. The sheriff says that he's waiting on it as well. Some toxicology reports.

He has no idea when he says it will be back, but hopefully that will be soon. The wedding photos, and I'm looking at them right now, it looks like the husband is playing a ukulele. But it shows Chad and Lori Daybell wearing the items that cult mom Lori Vallow purchased for them for their November 5 wedding. That Malachite ring was Lori's wedding band, wedding ring. And also we were learning, according to Nate Eaton and Kay, the sister of the deceased. They were looking at men's clothing, men's tennis shoes, white trunk,

white pants, white shirt, a new yellow bathing suit for her, swim trunks for a man, extra large, and she says it's all right there for her to look at. The grandmother, Kay Woodcock. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

For those of you just joining us, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. It never ends with cult mom Lori Vallow. You know, don't you just love it? To you, Joseph Scott Morgan, you're a death investigator and forensics expert. You're not just about blood spatter. You know about computer forensics as well.

Weigh in. It's those little breadcrumbs that are left behind, little digital breadcrumbs that kind of paint the picture. It happens with our phones, we can be tracked wherever we go and people don't think about that. It happens with CCTV images, but also with the computer that we use. Those little benchmarks along the way,

every keystroke has a meaning to it, Nancy. And when my colleagues over in computer forensics take a data set and they break it down, they can absolutely paint a very compelling picture, not just for the investigators, but at some point in time when all of this is going to go to court, which I promise you it will. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I've got news on that front as well. Remind me, Joe Scott, I want to circle back to what you just said. To James Shelnut, 27 years, Metro Major Case, SWAT, now lawyer. Defense attorneys will argue this means absolutely nothing that 17 days before Lori Daybell, Tammy Daybell, died in her sleep,

that her husband's new bride was looking for wedding dresses and a wedding band, not just looking for them, bought them, plus the yellow bathing suit. Seems like they already had it planned out at that time that there was going to be a wedding, that there was going to be a beach wedding, what they were going to wear, the works. So they had it all in place before Tammy Daybell died in her sleep. Yeah, I mean, y'all smell a rat and it smells like Lori Vallow.

I mean, yeah, but she was all in. I mean, it wasn't just one thing that they did. They did multiple things. And the only way that she and this guy are getting married is if his wife is either dead or they're divorced. And they're certainly not going to finalize a divorce during that period of time. So it looks like very strongly from a circumstantial evidence standpoint that they knew that this was going to happen and they knew that this man's current wife was not going to be a factor in preventing them

from going forward with their plan. You know, Kathleen Murphy, veteran trial lawyer at ncdomesticlaw.com. Kathleen, I'd be very curious as to when Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow, cult mom, got their tickets and made their reservations for a hotel, a swank hotel, I might add, in Hawaii. Weigh in, Kathleen. I weigh in on when they bought the ring, October 2nd, buying the bathing suit, buying the dress, and buying the ring, that they knew that Tammy Daybell would not be around. You know, to Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, I've asked this so many times, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but why not just get a divorce? Nancy, that's not the purpose of all of this as far as Lori Vallow is concerned.

This is on a whole different realm of reality in her, okay? I don't know what you're saying. Why not? Well, why are all these other people dead in her footsteps also? Why would you leave this person to just get a divorce from, right? You're right. Why ask why? Why try to apply logic to an illogical situation?

Because two and two is never going to equal four. Excuse me, never going to equal five. And also, it's not our duty to figure out why. It's our duty to figure out what happened. Yeah. Nancy, has anybody interviewed this woman? Has she had any kind of a psychological interview? Does anybody know that? No.

I can guarantee you no, because that would be a defense strategy. And right now, Lori Vela is only behind bars because she won't cough up where her children are. Last seen on a photo at Yellowstone. You know, I said I would circle back to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, and that's exactly what I'm going to do. Jackie, let's play cut one. East Idaho News dot com reporter Nate Eaton. Take a listen to this. Another news agency in Arizona has uncovered an email from the police down there saying that they are getting closer to possibly indicting Lori Daybell in the death of her brother, Alex Cox.

Alex Cox suddenly died 10 days after his marriage, after he got married in December. He was found in a restroom with feces all over the place, and they have ruled his death suspicious but have not released any information. But according to this report, there is an email from a detective to someone else saying that they are getting closer to indicting Lori Daybell in the death of her brother. We are learning that through a leaked email that authorities are getting closer to indicting cult mom Lori Vallow in the death of her brother.

We are also learning they're considering her reportedly in the death of her last husband. Police in Arizona could be on the verge of indicting Vallow in the death of her ex-husband who was killed by her brother last year. Straight out to Ray Caputo, lead news anchor,lando's morning news wdbo what do we know what about this leaked email from who to who yeah well i believe it was sent from a reporter to the chandler arizona police a detective and it was a very simple response it said that their confidence are getting closer to indicting laurie vallow over charles vallow's death nothing more than that. But it

does show where investigators are at right now, Nancy, because what happened to Charles didn't look suspicious early on. I mean, he shows up to take his kid. There's a fight, and Alex Cox, Lori's brother, shoots Charles. But that was the first domino to fall in like a dizzying sequence of events. You know, Lori moves to another state, her kids disappear, the ex-husband died, you know, all this stuff, Nancy. And then to top it all off, Alex Cox, who at this point possibly could be a serial killer, he turns up dead on a bathroom floor. So if you put all this together, it makes complete sense

that investigators are now looking closer at Lori Vallow. What is the cause of death of the brother, Alex Cox? Well, I heard that the 911 call that hasn't been figured out yet. But to me, it sounds like he either passed away of a drug overdose or something, a natural cause. But he was found on a bathroom bathroom floor, unresponsive in his own feces. So it wasn't it wasn't a good end to his life. Take a listen to our friends at KSL TV. This is reporter Garner Mejia.

Chandler police are investigating Charles' death and this email obtained by KSL, which Charles allegedly sent on June 29th to his other brother-in-law, Adam Cox. They're suspicious and it draws various questions that we would need to ask Lori entirely and possibly Chad and try to get to the bottom of it. In his message to Adam, Charles claims that Lori created an email alias for him and sent a letter the previous day to Chad Daybell, inviting him to visit Arizona to write a book. Charles suspected Lori wrote the letter pretending to be him. The letter says in part, I would gladly fly you down here early next week.

You could stay in our guest room like before. I hate to take you away from your family, but I would definitely make it worth your time. With admiration, Charles. Going back to his message to Adam, Charles continues, I'm not sure of the relationship with her and Chad Daybell, but they're up to something. She will not explain it. I'm going to send it to Chad Daybell's wife. Her name is Tammy. I found her email address on their website, too. I've got her cell phone number, too.

Okay, let me understand what I'm hearing. To Ray Caputo, Lead News Anchor, Orlando's Morning News, WDBO. An email sent from Charles Vallow regarding an invitation for him from Chad Daybell to come help him write an article. The web of lies becomes deeper and deeper. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. We have all worked so hard to bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave, a brand new book.

After interviewing literally hundreds of crime victims and police, we put our knowledge into Don't Be a Victim. You can pre-order now. Go to crimeonline.com, pre-order now, and know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The very latest in the case of the so-called cult mom, Lori Vallow, involves this email. Ray Caputo, what is the email about? And I understand it's from the dead third husband or fourth husband, Charles Vallow. And he's worried because Chad Daybell seemingly has invited him for a visit to work on a speech or a book or some project and he's concerned and he's going to alert Tammy Daybell then still alive explain Ray Caputo yeah so so here's the thing is that Charles at this point

is already looking at his his uh soon-to-be ex with a crooked eye I mean he told his lawyer that he was afraid that he was going to be killed. He essentially predicted that he was going to die at the hands of either Lori or Alex, which is what happened. So there's such a context to this email. You know, it's not just the first time that he's seen someone. We're talking about a guy who is afraid of his life. Most of the times in this, you know, domestic violence situations, we hear of a woman afraid. Here's a grown man who is afraid for his life. And then this email is just part of that context that he does not trust Lori. He does not

trust Alex. And he thinks that something bad can happen to her. And he is just trying to tell anybody that'll listen to him at this point. You know, Kathleen Murphy, it's just so eerie as it's so much about the Lori Vallow cult mom case. I've had cases where a murder victim thought they were going to be killed. And they said, hey, if anything happens to me, he or she did it. And then they end up dead. And so often Kathleen Murphy, because of the rules of evidence against hearsay, that evidence never comes before the jury because it can't be cross-examined. You can't cross-examine a dead person.

Now, there are exceptions to the hearsay rule, like dying declaration. There's a myriad of exceptions, but not for a statement like this. Because it can't be tested. But this is an email that deceased Charles Vallow wrote because Daybell had invited him to come visit. And a lot of people suspect that Lori Vallow wrote that email and sent it to her then living husband. What do you make of it, Kathleen Murphy? First of all, Nancy, I want to say everything I've heard about Mr. Vallow has been just phenomenal things. He seems like a very nice

person. A person that didn't have that characteristic to be empathic and nice and caring may have gone to the police and said, I think somebody's trying to kill me. Or here's some evidence I think we need to look up. The only thing that he really did is he got and dropped a protective order against Lori Vallow. It's a shame that he wasn't of the nature to take it more seriously. What do you make of it, James Shelnut, 37 years, Metro major case, now lawyer. When you have a person in this case, it would be Charles Vallow, shot dead, saying ahead of time, I am so afraid my wife, Lori Vallow, and her crazy brother, Alex Cox, are going to kill me. That's exactly what happened, James Shelnut.

And that is exactly why people are looking at Lori Vallow with a crooked eye in reference to this murder case as well. You know, I go back and I look, I watch the video, you know, the actual body cam footage for the police officers responding to the initial shooting of her ex-husband is posted on YouTube. The police department released that. And a lot of the times, one of the most important interviews is what happens right when the officers get there. The shooter in the case, you know, you're trying to determine whether or not it's justified or unjustified. What they say during that initial interview often proves critical to whether or not you're able to prove or disprove a crime was committed. And if you watch the interview that he gave to the responding officers, this guy's bobbling around all over the place.

He doesn't seem to be able to give straight answers, and it is just sketchy. And when I watched it, the first thought that went through my mind was, this doesn't sound right, it doesn't smell right, and this guy needs to be looked at a lot closer. And we had a bass aquarist as we were saying it out loud. I want to be clear. The email was to Chad Daybell, the new husband from the last dead husband, Charles Vallow, about working together on some project. Now, I want you to take a listen to EastIdahoNews.com reporter Nate Eaton about what actually happened the day

that Charles Vallow was shot. The day that her husband Charles was shot in Arizona by her brother of course he said he did it in self-defense. Charles was coming at him with a baseball bat and so he had to go get a gun to protect himself. Well Charles was an athlete so if he's going to go in and swing with a bat he's not going to. And if you've seen the security or the body camera footage, if you've seen the body camera footage from the police that day, Alex is dabbing the back of his head as if he's been hit with something sharp, maybe because he's dabbing for blood. Well, a baseball bat likely isn't going to leave a little ping on the back of your head. Tylee was in the house that day. JJ was in the house that day.

They likely witnessed what happened. What we do know is that after that shooting happened, Lori took JJ to school. As her husband lays dying in the front room, she takes her son to school and then returns back. And that's when Tylee and Lori spoke with the police. But yeah, the people that were in the house that day, the only ones surviving right now, the only one that saw it all play out is Lori.

And she's not talking to the police. Of course, Lori Vallow not speaking to police, cult mom staying quiet. But the only other two witnesses, JJ7 and Tylee17, are missing. Not only are the only two witnesses missing, but now we learn that cult mom Lori Vallow claims that her children, Tylee and JJ, have become zombies. I mean, you've seen The Walking Dead, or at least heard of it, correct? Where people become zombies. They're not their true selves anymore.

That is what cult mom Lori Vallow apparently claims about her two missing children. Claiming that before they went missing, she and her brother, the shooter, Alex Cox, the last ones with them. Take a listen to our friends at 12 News. This is Michael Doudna. The documents allegedly came from Melanie's new husband, Ian Pileski's computer, handed over to law enforcement by Ian's ex-wife. In the document, Ian describes Lori, Chad, and Melanie's beliefs as a global fight against evil forces to bring about the second coming of Christ.

The documents describe the faith as something, quote, ripped straight out of dungeons and dragons. Our spells are real, and people can be possessed by demons and become zombies. Lori Vallow friends remember her faith uncomfortably. But new court documents claim Melanie worried JJ and Tylee may be in danger, stating, quote, Melanie had been told by Chad and Lori that their children had been possessed and had become zombies. The documents show Ian wrote Melanie would then allegedly wonder to her husband if that meant, quote, JJ and Tylee needed to die as well. It's hardly know where to start when a mother truly believes, and this is a woman who is not insane under the legal concept.

She thinks her children should die because they're zombies. Ray Caputo, lead news anchor, Orlando Morning News, WDBO. What? You can't make this stuff up in a Hollywood blockbuster movie that the kids were infected by zombies, and the only way to free them is to pretty much end their lives. I mean, it's absolutely crazy. And this is all coming from Lori's niece,

who you'd think would be someone who she trusts and someone who wouldn't just give the dish on her. She really believed this stuff. So it's absolutely crazy, but it adds a context to why the kids could be missing and what could have happened to them in the first place now also there's a connection to they're missing because what they're zombies and they've gone to live with all the other zombies well well well melanie laurie's me did you just say right yeah well i'm kind of being tongue-in-cheek here, Nancy, but there's also another angle to this. Brandon, who's Melanie's ex-husband, he was supposed to be killed, too.

I mean, he was the one who was supposed to be possessed as well, and Alex actually took a shot at him and missed. So if he's trying to kill Brandon under the same circumstances, it's plausible to assume that's how the kids, or the reason the kids are not here anymore. We haven't seen them is because they were killed because they thought they were zombies it's absolutely crazy crime stories with nancy grace for those of you just joining us, we were talking about cult mom Lori Vallow. She's called cult mom because she's a member of a doomsday cult predicting the end of the world July 2020 in just a couple of months. But a more eminent concern is for her two children who are missing. Not her many dead husbands, but her two children.

She refuses to tell the court where the children are. They were last seen with her and her now dead brother, Alex Cox, at Yellowstone. No word about where they are now. So, yes, we are learning she ordered her wedding dress, her wedding ring, her husband's clothing, and a yellow swimsuit for a beach wedding before her groom's wife died in her sleep, Tammy Daybell. We know that according to a leaked email, authorities very close to potentially indicting her for the death of either her husband, Charles Vallow, or her brother, Alex Cox. We also learn that according to her close relatives,

she thought her children had turned into zombies and they needed to die. But is she about to walk free? Yes, free. Take a listen to our friend Nate Eaton. So far, the facility where she's being held, that has not happened. She is still in jail. I think that she is perhaps one of the top five, maybe the most famous inmate in America right now, I don't see the sheriff letting her go. I could see them letting every other inmate in that jail go before her. And when she was booked, there were about 20 women there with her. So there's around two dozen female inmates, around 60 to 70 male inmates.

They are kept in separate facilities, separate units. So it's not like, and they can hold up to, I believe 140. So they have quite a bit more space, but I could see them letting some lesser, some inmates who've been charged with lesser crimes going before they would actually let her out. To you, Ray Caputo, anchor Orlando's Morning News, WDBO, is there the potential that Lori Vallow, cult mom, is going to be released over COVID-19 fears? I don't think so, Nancy. I mean, that's what her lawyers are trying to do. I think it would be absolutely crazy.

They're trying to get her bond lowered. But even if it does get lowered, there are bond companies that don't even want to touch her. I would be willing to bet my mortgage that this woman is not going to see the light of day. To Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University and author. Joe Scott, what are the concerns about COVID-19 behind bars? Well, with COVID-19, you know, these jails are just festering many times with dirt and filth and this sort of thing. So it's a perfect environment for a virus like COVID-19 to thrive in this environment. And you can forget about social distancing in this type of environment. People get coughs, they get sniffles, they get colds. And if they're a carrier, they can pass it on just by coughing into the air in someone's proximity.

And people will say, well, they're in different cells. It doesn't matter because if they're in close proximity, it can be transferred to them. So it's very, very dangerous. And that's what the authorities are looking at nationwide, not just in this case. Right now, the U.S. has about 5,000 detention facilities, jails, prisons. There are also local and state facilities as well. The concern that COVID-19 coronavirus can spread rampant through jails is very concerning. Will Lori Vallow be released because of COVID-19 concerns? Wow. You know, to James Shelnut, 27 years Metro Major case, now lawyer, if there weren't so many dead bodies connected to her, simply not telling police where your children are is not a violent felony.

But she's got so many dead bodies around her. Would the court be able to consider that before releasing her due to COVID-19 concerns? The defense attorneys are going to argue that they shouldn't because they're going to argue that she hasn't been charged with these crimes. And although the prosecution would love for the judge to consider that, they're going to argue that it's not relevant. In the same token, the judge is going to see the big picture. And there's a phrase in the law that says you can't unring the bell once something's spoken or heard. I can't help but to imagine that the judge doesn't have a news channel and hasn't heard the name Lori Vallow

and doesn't somewhere in the back of the judge's mind know the big picture. And the prosecution certainly is at least going to attempt to argue it. With all that being considered, I don't see her getting out. Well, the authorities at the Madison County Jail there in Rexburg, Idaho, say that Lori Vallow, Colt Mom's presence is not changing anything that they are doing in preparation over COVID-19, that they plan to screen her like everybody else behind bars. Prevention protocols are in place. There's the potential release of low-level offenders. I don't think she will be considered a low-level offender.

But right now, she's got a bond set, as we know. And to you, Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, this judge in Idaho slashed her $5 million bond set in Hawaii to $1 million. She only has to put up 10%. That's $100,000. We know the husband, the current husband, got $353,000 life insurance, or we've been told, from his dead wife, Tammy Daybell. She could bond out. That's very scary. But then I think about her wedding ring. It only cost $38.31. So I'm not sure how much money they're really going for. But she did buy that ring before

Tammy Daybell passed away. Well, you know, I don't care if it was $50 or $50,000. The timing, timing is everything. Purchasing that wedding ring before your groom's wife is divorced or dead, that's a problem. Here's another concern about releasing Lori Vallow, cult mom. Listen. I'm taking a walk with a follower. She says she and Chad both communicate with spirits that they are true members of the Mormon church preparing for the end of the world. And she doesn't judge Chad, even if he's guilty, because we're all sinners. There's always going to be the ability to take scripture and use it for your own gain, which is what these people are doing. Flora Jessa escaped from Warren Jeff's polygamous cult on the Utah-Arizona border,

then rescued other young women. She believes Chad and Lori are following a familiar playbook, using the Mormon church to attract followers. They go to church. They are members of the church. They recruit from the church. This is not a secret organization. We sent detailed questions to the LDS church in Salt Lake City and got this response. We received your inquiry, but don't have anything to offer on this. Do you think the Mormon Church needs to do something about this? I think they are failing their members if they don't do something about this. You are hearing our friends speaking out again about the cult mom Lori Vallow's belief. That

was Morgan Lowe at CBS 5 News. I mean, the reality is when you get right down to it, Dr. Angela Arnold, with beliefs like that by someone who is not legally insane, who knows what she would do if she got out on bond? Well, my thought is if she does get out on bond, people are still going to be following her around, right? And she's going to escalate her behavior. Well, I mean, how do you escalate your behavior when you've got one dead husband, one dead ex-wife, two missing children, and a dead brother? I don't know how you escalate from that, but we will wait as justice unfolds in the case of cult mom Lori Vallow.

Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.