Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Did female cop order hitman to murder her husband and teen girl?

Episode Date: May 29, 2019

New York City Police Department officer, Valerie Cincinelli, is accused of trying to hire a hitman to kill her estranged husband, Isaiah Carvalho Jr.The case takes a number of twists and turns after an unlikely informant contacts the FBI.Nancy's expert panel weighs in:Sheryl McCollum  Atlanta PD crime scene investigator   Wendy Patrick     Trial attorney & author of “Red Flags”Bobby Chacon Retired FBI special agentCaryn Stark    PsychologistJohn Lemley   Crimeoneline.com investigative reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Decorated NYPD officers behind bars accused in a shocking murder-for-hire plot. In a criminal complaint, authorities say 34-year-old Valerie Cincinnati allegedly asked her boyfriend to hire a hitman with the intention of murdering her estranged husband. But it doesn't end there. Cincinnati, a 12-year veteran on the force, allegedly wanted to have her boyfriend's daughter killed by a hitman as well. Cincinnati's father is now speaking out in defense of his daughter. I guarantee you my daughter is innocent of this. Saying there's more to this story.

This guy that she's involved with is a wacko psycho. This is the second time he's had her arrested. Cincinnati's boyfriend allegedly told her he knew a hitman who would do the job for $7,000 converted into gold coins. Authorities say the murders were supposed to have happened last weekend, but as part of an FBI ruse, detectives went to her house to say her husband had been murdered.

She was arrested after allegedly contacting her boyfriend to talk about an alibi, not knowing that he was cooperating with investigators the entire time. Her neighbors in utter shock. Didn't see that one coming, that's for sure. That's ABC's GMA reporter Maggie Rooley. Is it true, did a cop arrange to have her ex-husband murdered as part of a hit? And not only that, to have her boyfriend's daughter rubbed out as well? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You know Cheryl McCollum, a longtime colleague and friend, director of the cold case

research institute you know i i don't know why i don't just stop saying this but every time i say i think i've seen it all then you know i say something else and then i say it again i think i've seen it all you know we worked in the trenches together uh fighting crime looking for defendants looking for evidence digging through the dirt for bullet for shell casings the works you know you think cheryl an in a cop a veteran cop would know better yeah wait did you actually just say, yep? That's your answer? No, that's not my answer. Not only does she want to kill her ex-husband, and ladies, hear me when I say, there is a reason he's an ex, okay?

Can't you just leave it at that? He's your ex. Go. Be happy. Run like a young gazelle. Get away from him. Why get mired down in having a hit put on him that's for our shrink karen stark but cheryl okay i'm expecting a little more than yep from you no no i

was getting to it oh now i get no now i get no okay i guess that's an improvement just so overwhelming because you're talking about such an iconic police department, first of all. I mean, the world looks to NYPD for training. And then you've got not only a veteran, but a decorated veteran who foiled a bank robbery on her own. I mean, it is baffling to me that she thought this very elementary plan was going to work, that you go to the person that is your boyfriend that you've had a volatile relationship with, that you don't really trust because he's had you arrested, but that's who you go to to find a hitman?

I mean, this wouldn't even be a good made-for-TV movie. I don't know. I think I'd like to see it as a made-for-TV movie. I don't know. I think I'd like to see just a made-for-TV movie. But first, can we just get through the trial? And again, before defense attorneys get all tuned up, second verse, same as the first, yeah, she's innocent until proven guilty. Maybe I should just start the program with that. Of course she's innocent until she's proven guilty. But what you said about the NYPD you're right because we have lived in New

York for many many years since I moved to New York to start a show with Johnny Cochran God rest his soul and the NYPD is great they're tough when they need to be when okay I know this is a tiny snapshot but whenever the twins walk up to an NYPD, they couldn't be nicer. I've seen them be harsh. But you know what? They needed to be harsh at that moment when they did it. And, yes, every police force has bad apples, and they make everybody else look bad. But I think you're right.

I think they are iconic. Overall, Cheryl McCollum. Okay, let's get some facts before I get Cheryl McCollum all strung out on what we think happened. Joining me right now, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, John Limley. Okay, Limley, start at the beginning. First of all, why would you stay with a guy that's already had you arrested once? Uh-uh, I'd take the Pat and Turner. Pat the street and turn a corner. Oh,uh, I'd take the Pat and Turner. Pat in the street and Turner corner.

Oh, yeah, I'd be way gone from him. But she stayed. Now she's in the pokey, deservedly. John Lindley, what do I need to know? Well, that has been an on-again, off-again, on-again, off-again relationship for quite some time. I think you should say it one more time just so Jackie Howard gets it. Okay, good. I got it. I got it. On-again, off again, off again. Jackie, did you? Okay, good. Go ahead, John Limley. You know, as we're sort of

setting the scene for this woman, this decorated police officer, Cheryl McCollum mentioned a story actually that went viral about this police officer in 2017. One of Cincinnati's arrests really made headlines when she caught a man literally red-handed. This time, a man went to a Howard Beach bank and demanded cash. He left with a bag filled with $1,300. Let me guess, the dye pack went off. Yes, a red dye bomb.

Oh, I'm so happy. I could not be happier. When the bomb exploded, the man dropped me guess, the dye pack went off. Yes, a red dye bomb. Oh, I'm so happy. I could not be happier. When the bomb exploded, the man dropped the money, ran for it. Officer Cincinnati happened to be in the Howard Beach area at the time. Wait a minute. That was Valerie Cincinnati? It was. Who allegedly ordered a hitman?

Yes. Holy moly. I didn't realize it. Okay, hold on. Bobby Chacon joining me,bi special agent bobby chicone i mean bank robberies are hard are hard to break okay because usually they're usually they're very well thought out you go into a bank you got a plan you know it's armed you know there's also it's surveillance i've prosecuted a bank robbery before uh usually the feds take it away because it's FDIC insured,

but I managed to have a bank robbery. Cheryl, I don't know if you remember that one. That's with the dyslexic bank robber. Don't touch the Alram. This is the Roby translation. Don't touch the alarm. This is a robbery. Needless to say, we did a handwriting comparison,

and he reversed all of his letters in the handwriting comparison that helped bobby chacon this woman stopped a bank robber dipak no dipak and now this that really doesn't make sense that she's that good and did something this bad allegedly well you know first of all echo your sentiments about the nypd my brother and father are both retired nypd detectives um however you know this particular officer while she did you had to go mess it up go with the feds okay go ahead encouragement of my father um but she you know this particular officer also had some uh some bad behavior in her police record. Also, she had previously been suspended and her gun taken away and put on modified duty because—

Wait, wait, wait, wait. For what? For what? What did she do to get suspended? She was a previous boyfriend, of all things, reported that she was spending time at his house while she was on duty. And so she's had some discipline against her. What is with this woman's boyfriends? You know, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author of Red Flags on Amazon. Bobby Chacon, hold on just a moment. John Limley, just hold that thought.

We women have got to get together on this. Cheryl McCullough, Wendy Patrick, Karen Stark. Another boyfriend reports her for being at his house while she's on duty. She probably just swang by for a ham and cheese sandwich. What's wrong with that, Wendy Patrick? Yeah, you know, Nancy, it's really a great point you bring up. Are we to be only judged by the company we keep? And if so, why are we so bad at choosing our personal relationships when apparently we're all so good at our jobs professionally? This lady seems to be one more example of that. You're right. There does seem to be a pattern to the problems that she's having in her life. This will no doubt make her sympathetic. I know everybody hates to say

that because what she did was awful, but that'll be something a defense attorney will probably pick up on. This is something the father is already stating that it's the son. It's the it's the it's the boyfriend. It's you know, it's somebody else's fault that God are involved in this. But you are right. It is it is curious that there is this steady string of let's just say problematic relationship. Well, wait a minute. You have a very good point there.

And a good defense attorney is going to latch right on. Listen, I'm not saying the woman's innocent, okay? Because when you get a hitman case, they've got you every which way but loose. They've got you on tape. They've got you on video. Here they stung her with fake murder photos. But, you know, there's a very good point a defense attorney is going to latch on to. Take a listen to CBS Valerie Castro outside Cincinnati's dad's house. Listen.

This guy that she's involved with is a wacko psycho. NYPD officer Valerie Cincinnati, once praised for her role in stopping a Queens bank robbery, now arrested and accused of hatching a plot to hire a hitman. Neighbors were stunned after FBI agents were seen carrying boxes of evidence out of her home. I really can't believe this. Going this far is just, I just, just maybe THE FAMILY WAS TOLD THE CHILD WAS IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS TOLD THE CHILD WAS IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS STUNNED AFTER FBI AGENTS WERE SEEN CARRYING BOXES OF EVIDENCE OUT

OF HER HOME. I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS. GOING THIS FAR. MAYBE LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT. HER INTENDED TARGETS, AN EX-HUSBAND AND THE 15-YEAR- OLD DAUGHTER OF HER CURRENT BOYFRIEND ACC BUT HE WENT TO POLICE AND BECAME A CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE.

COURT DOCUMENTS SAY IN FEBRUARY, CINCINNELLI MADE A CASH WITHDRAWAL OF $7,000 FROM A TV BANK BRANCH IN WANTAU TO PAY THE HITMAN. THE CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE TOLD HER THE HITMAN DIDN'T WANT TO OFF THE CHILD NEAR A SCHOOL, BUT CINCINNELLI'S RESPONSE, ACCORDING TO COURT DOCUMENTS, RUN HER THE EXPLATIVE OVER. HOW ABOUT THAT? THE DEFENDANT'S HUSBAND WAS SHOT IN THE HEAD BY A FIRE DRIVER. THE DEFENDANT'S HUSBAND SAID HE WAS NOT IN A GOOD SPONSE ACCORDING TO COURT DOCUMENTS. RUN HER THE EXPLATIVE OVER. HOW ABOUT THAT? .

CRIME STORIES WITH NANCY GRACE. AS FOR HER EX-HUSBAND, SHE HOPED HIS DEATH COULD BE MADE TO LOOK LIKE A ROBBERY GONE BAD. FRIDAY MORNING, FBI AGENTS POSING AS THE HITMAN SENT HER TEXT MESSAGES WHICH INCLUDED A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE DEFENDANT'S

ESTRANGED HUSBAND APPEARING DEAD IN HIS CAR AND THE DEMAND FOR AN ADDITIONAL $3,000 TO KILL THE DAUGHTER. CINCINNELLI THEN ALLEGEDLY TOLD HER BOYFRIEND SHE WAS DELETING THE TEXT MESSAGES AND PICTURES TO COVER UP HER INVOLVEMENT IN

THE CRIME. THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TOUGH TO GRASP FOR THE MAN WHO LIVES NEXT DOOR AND HAS MET BOTH CINCINNELLI'S EX-HUSBAND AND HER CURRENT BOYFRIEND. THE DEFENDANT'S MESSAGE WAS ALLEGEDLY TOLD HER THAT SHE

WAS DELETING THE TEXT MESSAGES AND PICTURES TO COVER UP HER INVOLVEMENT IN THE CRIME. THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TOUGH TO GRASP FOR THE MAN WHO LIVES NEXT DOOR AND HAS MET BOTH CINCINNELLI'S EX-HUSBAND AND HER CURRENT BOYFRIEND.

She's got two kids, man. And she's a police officer. Will she really do something like that? I don't know. CINCINNELLI'S FATHER SAYS HIS DAUGHTER IS THE REAL VICTIM OF THE MAN WHO TURNED AGAINST HER.

There's no doubt that he manipulated multiple conversations to come up with his statements. He's very smart, but he's a pathological liar and there's something wrong with him. He's a very smart guy. He's no doubt that he manipulated multiple conversations to come up with his statements. He's very smart, but he's a pathological liar and there's something wrong with his brain. Investigators say Cincinnati was also recorded discussing what her alibi would be, saying she

would be sure to be home at the time of the murders. She's being held without bail. Prosecutors argued she is a danger to the community. Did a decorated NYPD cop. She allegedly tried to hire a hitman to kill her ex-husband. And as if that's not enough, she is now accused of trying to rub out to murder her boyfriend's daughter. Teen girl. Bottom line saying, just rudder the F over. Wow. You know, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute,

we've certainly seen her share her cases. But when I hear that dad speaking, I can just hear my father on the front steps of the house tearing everybody a new rear end, defending me, blaming everybody else. I mean, willing to throw a punch. I can just, this just reminds me so much of my dad. You know, I think that there is a grain of truth in what he's saying.

Look at it. This boyfriend is the one who said he could hire, find a hit man. I'm not defending her because I guarantee you they've got her on tape, they've got her on video, they've got a picture of her pulling out the seven grand, which is coincidentally the same amount the hitman wanted, the fake hitman. I mean, yes, but I think that boyfriend

may have been stirring the pot, Cheryl McCollum. Well, the biggest difference in her dad and Mr. Mack is he had every right, your dad, to defend you. the pot, Cheryl McCollum. Well, the biggest difference in her dad and Mr. Mack is he had every right, your dad, to defend you. You didn't have a string of exes in your background that all had arrested you and that you had

physically fought with and you weren't written up every five minutes and Louis Flayton's on. Ooh, ooh, ooh, no. Her background is flag after flag after flag after flag. Yeah, you know what? I was cutting her some slack because of the boyfriend, but you know what? It's her record. Karen Stark, psychologist.

You can find her at karenstark.com. Joining us today from Manhattan, Karen Stark. It's her record. Look, you can blame the boyfriends all you want to. You can blame the ex-husband all you want to. She's the one that took the money out of the bank to pay the hitman. She's the one that said, run her the F over to the hitman. I'm sure she's on tape.

You know, they got to get everything on tape. She was part of it, part and parcel. You're talking about a psychopath, Nancy. Go ahead. You're talking about a psychopath. And when you're talking about somebody like that, a murderer, you cannot persuade another person to commit those kind of crimes. And I think it's absolutely true that your dad would not have been defending you in a situation like that, but you wouldn't be in a situation like that. You're talking about somebody who has no feelings. So it doesn't take a lot to

stir somebody up and get them to decide, you know what, my ex is in the way. I think I'll just kill him. And while I'm at it, why not kill your daughter? Because, you know, she's annoying to me too. And that's, people are not real. She could care less about what she does. You know, Wendy, Patrick, Karen Stark is right. I guess I was projecting, I've dealt with so many women that have gotten tangled up with bad guys, and then they get dragged down the rabbit hole with them. But it's this woman. It's her. It is Valerie Cinchinelli. Because aside from each particular man, if you look at her history, she's got the first incident where she's caught on duty hanging out at some guy's house. Then she's been arrested for another incident with a boyfriend.

Now this incident. I mean, that's three. That's three. I mean, if I showed up late to court one time, I'd be in trouble as an assistant district attorney. I mean, trouble. So at what point do we quit cutting her a break and blaming it on a bad guy? I mean, you can't turn away from the fact that when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. She's got three incidents already, Wendy. That's right. So three strikes, you're out. Now here we

are again. And you're absolutely right. You three strikes, you're out. Now here we are again. And you're absolutely right. You know, prior bad acts is the legal definition. It shouldn't really be called that because they're not bad acts. Sometimes they're criminal. Sometimes they are, I sometimes say patterns make the predator when we're talking about sex offenses. But in a pattern like this, you just got to wonder whether or not, at what point is it her own bad choices that is to blame rather than being under the influence of a bad relationship? And one of the issues in court is going to be how much of these prior incidents are admissible in order to explain what she did. Are they relevant enough? Are they

similar enough? Maybe not. But it also cuts against the really the giving her a break, which is something that the jury might otherwise be tempted to do. Well, this is what we know. Cincinnati was hired 2007. She was a domestic violence officer assigned to the 106th Precinct. She became involved with a local man she met on the job. She was stripped of her badge and gun in 2017 after she ended the relationship and the guy ratted her out to Internal Affairs claiming she spent time at his Howard Beach home while on duty.

What a coinkydink that he reported her after she dumped him. So we're not sure if that's the guy who was described as an older, quote, sugar daddy who paid for her car and other bills, or is that the same one in this alleged murder-for-hire plot? What we do know is her husband, Isaiah Cravalho Jr., sued her for divorce in Nassau County. They had a trial set for June. You know, the divorce lawyer is happy the whole thing was foiled.

But I want to get back to the facts. John Lindley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. I want you to take a listen to CBS Valerie Castro. As for her ex-husband, she hoped his death could be made to look like a robbery gone bad. Friday morning, FBI agents posing as the hitman sent her text messages, which included a photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead in his car and the demand for an THE DEFENDANT'S HUSBAND APPEARED DEAD IN HIS CAR AND THE DEMAND FOR AN ADDITIONAL $3,000 TO KILL THE DAUGHTER. CINCINNELLI THEN ALLEGEDLY TOLD HER BOYFRIEND SHE WAS DELETING

THE TEXT MESSAGES AND PICTURES TO COVER UP HER INVOLVEMENT IN THE CRIME. THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TOUGH TO GRASP FOR THE MAN WHO LIVES NEXT DOOR AND HAS MET BOTH CINCINNELLI'S EX-HUSBAND AND HER CURRENT BOYFRIEND.

SHE'S GOT TWO KIDS, MAN. AND SHE'S A POLICE OFFICER. WILL SHE REALLY DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT? I DON'T KNOW. CINCINNELLI'S FATHER SAYS HIS DAUGHTER IS A CRIME. HE SAYS HE'S NOT A CRIME

PERSON. HE SAYS HE'S NOT A CRIME PER TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO.

HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO.

HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A FATHER OF TWO. HE SAYS HE WAS A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR AND THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIS BRAIN. INVESTIGATORS SAY CINCINNELLI WAS ALSO RECORDED DISCUSSING WHAT HER ALIBI WOULD BE, SAYING SHE WOULD BE SURE TO BE HOME AT THE TIME OF THE MURDERS. SHE'S BEING HELD WITHOUT BAIL. PROSECUTORS ARGUED SHE IS A DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY.

CRIME STORIES WITH NANCY GRACE. AS FOR HER EX-HUSBAND, SHE HOPED HIS DEATH COULD BE MADE TO LOOK LIKE A ROBBERY GONE BAD. FRIDAY MORNING, FBI AGENTS POSING AS THE HITMAN SENT HER TEXT MESSAGES WHICH INCLUDED A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE DEFENDANT'S ESTRANGED HUSBAND APPEARING DEAD IN HIS CAR AND THE DEMAND FOR AN ADDITIONAL THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS TO KILL THE

DAUGHTER. CINCINNELLI THEN ALLEGEDLY TOLD HER PEOPLE THAT THE DEFENDANT WAS NOT IN THE CAR AND THAT THE DEFENDANT WAS NOT IN THE CAR. THE DEFENDANT'S HUSBAND WAS NOT IN THE CAR.

THE DEFENDANT WAS NOT IN THE CAR. THE DEFENDANT WAS NOT IN THE CAR. THE DEFENDANT WAS NOT IN THE CAR. THE DEFENDANT WAS NOT IN THE CAR. THE DEFENDANT WAS NOT IN THE CAR. A photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead in his car and the demand for an additional $3,000 to kill the daughter. Cincinnati then allegedly told her boyfriend she was deleting the text messages and pictures to cover up her involvement in the crime. The allegations are tough to grasp for the man who lives next door and has met both Cincinnati's ex-husband and her current boyfriend. She's got two kids, man. And she's a police officer. Will she really do something like that? I don't know. THE MAN WHO TURNED AGAINST HER IS A FATHER OF A MAN WHO TURNED AGAINST HER. THE MAN WHO TURNED AGAINST HER

IS A FATHER OF A MAN WHO TURNED AGAINST HER. HE'S THE EX-HUSBAND AND CURRENT BOYFRIEND. SHE'S GOT TWO KIDS, MAN. SHE'S A POLICE OFFICER. WILL SHE REALLY DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

I DON'T KNOW. HIS FATHER SAYS HIS DAUGHTER IS THE REAL VICTIM OF THE MAN WHO TURNED AGAINST HER. THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT HE MANIPULATED MULTIPLE CONVERSATIONS TO COME UP WITH HIS STATEMENTS. HE'S VERY SMART, BUT HE'S A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR AND THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH HIS BRAIN. smart, but he's a pathological liar and there's something wrong with his brain. Investigators say

Cincinnati was also recorded discussing what her alibi would be, saying she would be sure to be home at the time of the murders. She's being held without bail. Prosecutors argued she is a danger to the community. Whoa, we are talking about an NYPD officer. She's a Jennifer Lopez lookalike, who allegedly hires a hitman not only to murder her ex, her husband seeking a divorce, but also to murder her boyfriend's teen daughter, who doesn't like her. Straight out to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute.

Wow. There's no way around that. Not at all. And Nancy, you know, you and I used to discuss all the time, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Two men have gotten restraining orders against this woman. Even if you listen to her dad, he talks about the current boyfriend. He says it's a lie, but he said the current boyfriend said she pulled a gun on him and threatened to kill him. This isn't new behavior for her. This violence, this, you know, plotting and scheming, I don't think it's anything new. I really don't. The jury, you know,

they're going to understand, oh, you're mad at an ex-husband and you want him murdered. Okay, that's, you know, whatever. But you throw in that little girl, that's a game changer for anybody. That is, as we say, the fly in the ointment. Bobby Chacon, FBI special agent. Have you noticed that when you're in the force, when you're a prosecutor or a cop or a bail bondsman, you're in the business for a long time. You're in that mayloot. You get used to it. You get numbed to it. Not numb. I guess numb isn't the right word. You are conditioned to it. You're not shocked anymore. You accept things more quickly than you did before you were in the crime business.

And I really think that some cops go bad because it just doesn't seem that bad to them anymore because they've been around it so much. It's like this. The first time I ever had to curse, I mean, every foul word you can think of, the C word, the P word, the F word, the every word you can think of. I was reading a statement to a jury. I was telling a jury what the defendant had said. And I had to really work myself up to say these words out loud in front of a jury. And they were shocked. And I was shocked. I could hardly say it. But then the next time I said it, Bobby, it wasn't so hard. Then the next time, and before you knew, and I was shocked. I could hardly say it, but then the next time I said it, Bobby Chacon, it wasn't so hard.

Then the next time, and before you knew it, I was just saying it all on my own. I wasn't quoting and defending anymore. I had to clean up my act when I had the twins, of course. No more of that. But that's what I'm saying. You're around this. You're around crime all the time, and somehow, to some people, it doesn't seem so bad anymore. Well, I don't know, Nancy.

You know, I take my dad as an example. He was a detective in the 50s and 60s at the NYPD in the 70s. And, yes, while he did develop a hardened shell at work when he saw all these things and he couldn't react to them as much. He couldn't be emotional about it. But at the same time at home with his family, he became more caring and more kind and more protective because of the things he was seeing at work. And so, you know, he drew that line and most of us have drawn that line with the things we see at work, the things we see in the street, we don't bring home. This officer had no line. It seems like the things that she was experiencing at work, she thought we are fine to bring home and don't bring home. This officer had no line. It seems like the things that she was experiencing at work, she thought we are fine to bring home and actually do at home.

So I think that in this case, the line, she just didn't have a line. And I think that many of us developed that line where we become more caring and more concerned, more protective at home because of the things we see and the more things we see at work. Well, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, that's the way prosecution worked on me. I became more vigilant, more protective, more alert, but I wasn't as shocked. I was still hurt every time I would see a violent crime victim, but I wasn't shocked anymore.

After you see it thousands and thousands, literally tens of thousands of times, you're not shocked anymore. And I'm wondering if that's what happened to Valerie Cincinnati. It kind of became okay in her mind. Yeah. You know, Nancy, you may not be shocked, but you are still passionate about what you do. I can hear it in your voice every time you discuss a segment. So, too, with all my fellow guests. The passion is still there, wanting justice for victims. What we just heard was completely devoid of any of that.

The laughing in discussing, well, how is it going to happen? The date that it would be convenient. Those kinds of things really evince, as I think one of your other guests said, almost a callousness that goes above and beyond simply becoming desensitized because you work law enforcement for too many years. That tape and that voice, that is what's going to be most persuasive to a jury. You just can't capture that through a transcript or through somebody else describing what she said. It is that, I suppose, lack of passion and concern that I think is going to be most telling when this gets in front of a trial. Take a listen to this. Cincinnati, a 12-year NYPD department veteran, is currently charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

A federal criminal complaint details how she allegedly tried to persuade her boyfriend, he's CS in the complaint, to hire a hitman to kill not just her estranged husband, but also have that hitman murder her boyfriend's teenage daughter for $7,000 cash I'm not gonna comment on that because I really you know that's it just seems to me that everything is just a little bit exaggerated right now I don't know what kind of evidence they have since an Ellie's boyfriend presumably opposed to having his own daughter murdered began cooperating with the FBI. He wore a wire and recorded his conversations in which prosecutors say Cincinnati discussed how to carry out the murders and alibis when it was time for the cover up.

Cincinnati was arrested before anyone was hurt. I really am heartbroken about it. That little boy is going to grow up really messed up, really messed up. That's from PICS reporter Jay Drew. We are hearing the very latest about an NYPD, New York Police Department officer, who allegedly hires a hitman to murder not only her ex-husband, but her boyfriend's daughter as well. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace fbi agents took the 34 year old mother of two out of her oceanside long island home in their custody friday afternoon and agents were still at the home later in the evening neighbors we spoke with who did not want to go on camera all separately described a nasty marriage breakup, arguments in the street, and hinted at Officer Cincinnati's temper.

Her next door neighbor was the only person willing to go on camera, and he chose his words carefully. We all have tempers. I understand that, but did hers stand out? I wouldn't say it stood out, no. She verbalized herself, of course, with the kids, the stress and everything, but I don't know if she was. I wouldn't take it as anything excessive. That's from PICS reporter Jay Drew. We are hearing the very latest about an NYPD, New York Police Department officer,

who allegedly hires a hitman to murder not only her ex-husband, but her boyfriend's daughter as well. Joining me in all-star panel, Cheryl McCullen, director, Cold Case Research Institute, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon, Bobby Chacon, FBI special agent, Kieran Stark, psychologist, kieranstark.com, and John Limley, crimeonline.com investigative reporter. Let me ask you something to you, John Limley. We're learning that the boyfriend balked when it came to murdering his own daughter, but it sounds like she, Valerie Cincinnati, was going forward with the plan anyway.

Yeah, that was, she was, what's the phrase, hell-bent on getting this taken care of. You know, it's sort of ironic. Wait a minute, why are you saying getting it taken care of. You know, it's sort of ironic. Wait a minute. Why are you saying getting it taken care of? That sounds like you're going to run down to the med first and get a shot. We're going to get that taken care of. That's sort of the way she viewed it. Well, I know she may, but not you, Limley, for Pete's sake. Oh, heavens no.

Oh, heavens no. Okay, Mary Poppins. John Limley getting it taken care of is hardly a way to describe having the girl effing run over outside of school. Bobby Chacon, FBI special agent, why was she so intent on having the murders occur outside? Well, and this is one thing that the jury's going to get chilled at is the callousness of her talk. She didn't want her place to get messed up, the callousness of you're about to murder your ex-husband, the father of your talk. She didn't want her place to get messed up. The callousness of you're about to murder your ex-husband, the father of your child. And your only concerns is that if it happens

inside, it might be too messy. So what we know is Officer Valerie Cincinnati was introduced to Isaiah Cravalho Jr., her future husband, turned murder target by Detective Patrick Roach, also of the NYPD. Now, what's the connection between them, John Lindley? They were simply friends. And, of course, she was a co-worker with the man. Now, it's interesting the way that Isaiah Carvalho found out about this whole plot to have him wiped out. You know, this has been going on since February, this plotting to have him and the daughter murdered. He woke up on Friday morning and found out just before the rest of the world

that, you know, he thought his life was about to turn a corner because he was about to wrap up what had been a messy divorce with Vincenelli or Cincinnati. Instead, he was told that this estranged wife had been plotting to have him killed all winter. There had been five months that had gone by since Carvalho had filed for divorce from his wife. After a messy custody battle over that son, the matter seemed to be almost settled. And it was, but not the way Mr. Carvalho had hoped for. Well, this is what we know. According to court documents, Cincinnati tells the boyfriend to tell the hitman to, quote, run her, his daughter, the F, over to make the girl's death look like a hit and run.

So the boyfriend strings Cincinnati along while the FBI is gathering information telling her he was in contact with a hitman and that everything was moving forward. So then the boyfriend tells Cincinnati that the hitman was stalking her ex-husband Carvalho at his workplace on Long Island, but then Cincinnati didn't like that. She thought that area was too upscale and she wanted her husband to be killed quote in the hood so it would not look suspicious all right cheryl mccollum what about that here's the greatest part of this whole thing nancy because every time i hear a case like this i have you in my head when you used to be my prosecutor and here's what i think the prosecution is going to do. Every single time the FBI contacted her as the alleged hitman, and they said, hey, you got the money? You know, call it back.

Hey, make sure you convert it to coins. Call back. How do you want this done? Oh, in the ghetto? You want to run the F over? Every single text message and every single phone call she could have stopped it nancy and they're going to show that not only i know you would i can hear it i can literally hear you in my head that's exactly what i would do you know because cheryl mccum, I don't know if you recall. Yes, ma'am.

Sometimes I would have up, I would have 15 or 20 four-foot posters up at once. And each poster would be full of, quote, evidence proving guilt. Every text, every word she uttered, the ATM withdrawal. Have you guys seen her on video? I'm looking at her right now. Not only did she not call it off, not only does she not say, I have lost my mind. I've got my own children that I'm going to love and raise and take care of. She says, what are the efforts? Man, I mean mean when you're dealing with okay a lot of women on the jury would say yeah i think the evidence is weak when it comes to killing the ex-husband they might give her a um a little freebie on that one uh but on the the teen daughter she's going down on that she is going down down. And Bobby Chacon, FBI special agent,

when the feds get you, they've got you every which way. And I know that from being a fed. We couldn't proceed on a single case unless we had 40, 50 boxes of evidence. And I'm not kidding or exaggerating, Bobby. They've got her. No, not at all. In fact, most of the time, I was always ready to proceed with a case long before my assistant United States attorney was ready to go. They've always wanted, and in this kind of case, you can almost anticipate the defense. So what they did was they went painstakingly at her because they knew what the defense was going to be. They knew what they were going to argue. And so they wanted to counter that beforehand. They wanted to get the evidence to counter the anticipated defenses.

And really, in a case like this, the best evidence you have is hearing from the defendant themselves, because they're not going to take the stand. I think that the best thing that's going to happen is the jury is going to hear in her own words. The prosecutor at the initial hearing said they have an overwhelming amount of evidence. And I think they did that purposely, because they know that these cases sometimes can be difficult. She's a mother. You know, she's got young children at home.

And so they went out and got an abundance of evidence against her. And the jury is going to hear that and see her and hear her own words and see her behavior firsthand. Right. And I think that's going to be damning in this case. You know what? Karen Stark, psychologist, joining me today from Manhattan. You can find her at karenst firsthand. Right. And I think that's going to be damning in this case. You know what? Karen Stark, psychologist, is joining me today from Manhattan. You can find her at karenstark.com. Karen, I can't put my finger on this,

and I bet you're going to have just the right description. What is really getting me distraught about this is the way she describes everything. Like, she's worried about her home getting messy if you kill them there. She is worried about the schedule interfering with her schedule. She's worried the two deaths close together might raise suspicion. So she tells the boyfriend to have the hitman kill his daughter over the weekend, then wait a week or a month, and then kill her husband. I mean, she's so casual about it. This is human life, the life of a teen girl, a little girl.

This little girl is just four years older than Lucy and John David, and she wants to have her run down in the street and leave her dying on the side of the road. And she's fine with that. She's more worried about getting blood spatter on her sofa or on her carpet, in her place. That is just pushing me over the edge. Because, Nancy, it's just what's so confusing about it. There's a disconnect. Should it be outside?

No, it should be inside. And she's kind of flirtatious. And behind it all, she is plotting to murder two people, one a little bit older than your own children and an ex-husband. How do you put those two things together? We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.