Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Did Missouri governor blackmail mistress? Mystery child found dead in Cleveland

Episode Date: January 16, 2018

Missouri Gov. Eric Greitens is battling to keep his political career alive as a man accuses the governor of blackmailing his former wife with a nude photo taken during an extramarital sex session. Nancy Grace discusses the legal issues involved with Los Angeles criminal defense lawyer Nima Haddadi, Chicago psychologist Dr. Tiffany Sanders, and reporter Art Harris. Investigators need help identifying a 4-year-old boy whose remains were found in rubble behind an abandoned house in Cleveland. Nancy and guest look at the mystery. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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a nutrient that helps support healthy blood pressure, working with the body's own natural system. Super Beets made from beets grown to exacting standards and concentrated into super food crystals. You want healthy blood pressure? Call 800-516-0683 or go to nancysbeets.com. With the first order, get 30 days of Super Beets free, plus indicator strips to see how Super Beets works for you. Free shipping. Call 800-516-0683 or go to nancysbeats.com today. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. Wait just a minute. A former Navy SEAL? A Rhodes Scholar, the founder of a veterans charity, a, quote, good husband and father.

And by all accounts, you know, even my partner in crime, Alan Duke, says he's a darn good-looking guy. Now, I don't find him good-looking, but that's just me, because I know the rest of the story. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I'm talking about a governor, a governor of Missouri who is admitting now to a sex affair, but denying blackmail. You know what? If a married guy is running around having sex, I don't like it, but my ears don't perk up. Blackmail? That's a whole nother can of worms. I'm talking about Governor Eric Greitens, who sought Missouri's highest office. His resume seemed almost too good to be true, but it's true. As I said, former Navy SEAL,

Rhodes Scholar, founder of a veterans charity, faithful husband and father. went wrong joining me right now dr tiffany sanders chicago psychologist nema hadati la criminal defense lawyer and former prosecutor art harris crime stories investigative reporter alan duke and jackie howard to break it down and put it back together again. Art Harris, can we just start at the beginning? How does blackmail get into the same sentence with Navy SEAL Rhodes Scholar father and husband? How does blackmail inject itself in there? Let's wind us back just a second, Nancy, to the alleged incident. This is someone who he met. It was his hairdresser. Wait a minute.

Which incident? The blackmail or the sex? This is the alleged mistress who has said on a tape that was given to a TV station by her very angry ex-husband who has been stalking the Navy SEAL in tweets for quite a while.

She says that he tied her up, well, he taped her hands to rings in the basement. He wanted her to come downstairs so he could, quote, make her feel good and also show her how to do a proper pull-up. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Jackie here in the studio is just laughing. Okay, can we all get real just for a moment okay first of all why is the hairdresser at his house number one number two if I go to a guy's house and he tells me he wants me to go in the basement to make me feel good and learn to do a proper chin

up or pull up or whatever it is you just said right there, I'm gone. Okay, Dr. Tiffany Sanders, please take off your psychologist hat just for a moment and put on your regular working woman hat. First of all, a married man wants to take you in his basement to, quote, make you feel good. You know what? I feel good walking out the door. This is not a young girl. She's at a married man's home and he wants to take her to the basement to quote, make her feel good and do a pull up. Okay. That is laughable. Right, Nancy. You know, this is a husband, a former Navy SEAL,

professionalism. When you're interacting with other professions, there's no need to make each other feel good. If she's doing a service and she cuts your hair, that makes you feel good. And then you give her a tip as you pay her and you escort her out the door. So he was actually trying to seduce her. I'll make you feel good. Let me bring you in this place and let me show you how to do it properly. Those are tactics of a single man who's aggressively pursuing a woman, not of a politician and an upstanding citizen who is supposed to be leading the state or a future leader of the state. I'm very sad and disappointed to hear that. If my husband had done anything like that, oh, we would truly have a problem if david eugene lynch invites another woman to the basement to teach her how to do a pull-up honey he's coming home to all his clothes burning in the front yard and all the locks changed exactly whenever he smarts up, I say something loving like, how does every other

weekend sound to you? Okay, that straightens them up pretty quickly. Art Harris, stop laughing because you know David. Okay, I want to get back to this. Art Harris, there you see a woman's view of let me teach you how to do a pull-up in my basement. For all of you guys listening to Sirius XM 132, please do not use that pitiful pickup line, come to my basement, let me teach you how to do a pull-up. But actually, Art, maybe it is a good pickup line because seemingly it worked, Art. Well, Nancy, according to the student of push-ups, She did go to the basement. She did say that she knew that this was a seduction scene and she just froze. Apparently he taped her hands to some rings, according to her, presumably to make it easier to hold onto them while she was doing the pushup.

But then she sees a flash and knows that he's taking a picture of her. When she hears him say, if you ever say anything or mention my name, these will be widely circulated. This is according to her ex-husband, who is very angry and has been tweeting the governor quite a while, accusing him of these things that he finally has acknowledged. All right, all right, all right. You're putting the cart before the horse. Hold on. Let me back it up. When you first said taped her fingers to rings,

I just assumed you were putting tape in the back of a ring on your finger to make it fit your finger. Did I get that wrong? I'm reading between the lines, Nancy, as a next native guy who knows seals and knows how you do pull-ups and how to make them easy. That is, if you can somehow tape your hands in place, it's the only thing that I can imagine he was doing unless there was some bondage going on, which she doesn't allege. Alan Duke, what I'm trying to say is

these were not rings that fit on your fingers. These were exercise pull-up rings. I believe Art left out the part where she was naked and blindfolded, Alan Duke. These were exercise pull-up rings. She was naked and blindfolded.

Let's just try to start at the beginning. The hairdresser goes to his home ostensibly to do his hair. He invites her to the basement to quote make her feel good and show her how to do a pull-up. She goes down there according to Art Harris and he tapes her hands to pull up exercise rings. Somehow she ends up naked and blindfolded and there's a photo taken and that sets the ball in motion but to nema haddadi very well known la criminal defense lawyer nema i don't want to throw you a bone on this one but so far I have not heard a crime yet yeah definitely not and on top of everything there is uh some type of motive even uh by the ex-husband that his marriage fell apart as to uh

maybe stretching the truth a little bit well don't you think a photo a picture speaks a thousand words Art Harris what what are you saying about a photo? The hairdresser notices a flash and assumes that he has taken photos of her nude. She says he then said, look, if you ever say anything, use my name. These will be widely circulated. He denies that, of course, through his lawyer. And as far as the crime goes, I'm trying to figure out why it is now being investigated by the local DA. The husband says the FBI has called. So I don't know if that is in relation to a blackmail, alleged blackmail threat, or an email that the wife sent him to say, you know, we got to cut this off, hurting too many people.

That email has surfaced, Nancy, in the local newspaper. And so you have a lot of snippets of so-called evidence that is a little murky. Well, as a matter of fact, let's take a listen. Alan Duke, could you please roll the conversation we have recorded allegedly by the hairdresser's ex-husband and her husband? Tell me the truth. So, on a Saturday morning before my first client, I did go to his house. When was that? The first time. Ever? morning before my first client i did go to his house ever like i said nothing period had ever happened or taken place until this snowball tornado just happened i know i brought it on so she's explaining did, explaining to her ex-husband that her interactions with Governor Greitens were sometimes initiated by her.

They met because she did his hair. But the fact that they met professionally and she initiated some of their sex interactions does not relieve him from that. But again, Alan, an extramarital affair is not a crime. Right. It was consensual. Okay. Let's, let's listen to that. I met Eric a year ago and I instantly had a big crush on him. So to Dr. Tiffany Sanders, Chicago psychologist, she says she feels drawn to the governor. But when he told her, I want you to come over to his home, she at first said no. She wanted to meet for coffee and he responds, I can't, I can't be seen with you. This is wrong. Listen to what she said. And I said, I know. So he said, just please, just come to my house.

And here's the slippery slope, Dr. Tiffany. She says she agrees to go to his house to, quote, talk. Talk. I don't want to talk to a married man. don't even want to talk to them absolutely what what's the purpose of the conversation you could essentially email your rates what is it you know send pictures of your portfolio of work you've done what do we need to discuss and the reason why he didn't want to possibly meet with her in public is because he didn't want to give an image of doing something improper so he begs you to meet behind closed doors. That's a clear warning signal. And where's this woman's judgment? She also was married. So you have to think about it. If your husband was doing

something like that, wouldn't you be offended? So somewhere at all sense of judgment on both parts is just totally missing. And I am surprised that this woman made these or took these steps. Take a listen to what else the alleged mistress has to say. I'll make you feel better. I'll make you feel good. Come downstairs. I want to show you how to do a proper pull up. And I knew that he was being sexual and I still let him. And he used some sort of tape, I don't know what it was, and taped my hands to these rings. And then put a blindfold on me. I don't even know, my feel like I don't even know.

I just know. I just think I don't even know. And he stepped back and I saw a flash through the blindfold. He said, you're never going to mention my name. reporter, that's exactly as you said. It is supported in these recorded conversations about the flash. No one has seen the photos, Nancy, or they haven't been produced. He denies taking them. But I think in one point he may say, I had some photos and I deleted them. But there is not... So where is that evidence that he was supposedly going to use to blockmail

her? We don't know. We do know this husband has been calling newspapers, tweeting, and turning over tapes he's made of his wife discussing this, and that has created a firestorm in Missouri and demands for him to resign. And now a local DA saying the local citizens deserve a full investigation of this. As a matter of fact, Art, once again, you're right. Take a listen to what the ex-husband has to say. This is what he tells News 4 and why he is still upset. He took a picture of my wife naked as blackmail. There is no worse person. I think it's as bad as

it gets. I think it's as bad as it gets when somebody takes advantage of somebody. So to L.A. criminal defense attorney Nima Hazadi, Nima, this is where the allegation of blackmail comes in. It's what the governor allegedly tells the mistress about the photo. Yes. You know, Nancy, one more issue that stands out to me as well is even after the alleged blackmail takes place, the mistress does allege that there's one more physical altercation even after that. Throw that out there as well. So Neema, Haidata, you're right. You're right about that timeline of events. She does go back to the well, but does that negate the initial blackmail? No, it does not. Initial alleged blackmail. Go ahead.

No, based on those facts, if those facts are true, then this does equate to blackmail. There is a threat to release something embarrassing to the public, and that's exactly what allegedly happened in that case. So I'm trying to sort through all this to Alan Duke. He has issued a statement. What does his statement say, Alan? Yes, Nancy, after this just emerged very recently, he and his wife issued a joint statement. In fact, they sort of did it in her voice. She says a few years ago before Eric was elected governor, there was a time when he was unfaithful in our marriage. This was a deeply personal mistake. Eric took responsibility. We dealt with this together honestly and privately. And that was the initial statement.

He did admit to being unfaithful, though, and that's probably the important thing. But they say it is over. Let's forget about it. Well, the reality is if you locked up every guy that's been unfaithful, well, who would be left, Jackie? She's saying, I don't know. Would there be anybody left? I swear on a stack of Bibles that my husband and my father were never unfaithful. And I'm going to go to my grave believing that. And I don't want to know anything different. But I mean, what I'm saying is to be unfaithful, to cheat on your wife or husband is not a reason to lose a job. Period. When he comes back up for reelection, then the

people of Missouri can decide if they want him to be their governor anymore. I mean, look at Clinton for Pete's sake. He was voted in twice, and we know he ran around. So let's think this thing through. The problem with this, though, is blackmail. That is a crime if this rises to blackmail. To Art Harris, Crime Stories contributing reporter, Art, is there actually a formal investigation going on? Is this governor, Missouri governor, under criminal investigation for blackmail?

The circuit attorney is looking into this, she says, and has asked anyone with any knowledge to call her office. And they will follow up on any tips. If this fact scenario is true, and he takes a picture of her blindfolded and naked and says, if my name gets out, your picture's going to be everywhere, that's blackmail. But how do you prove that to a jury? It seems to me it's a tough one if you're a DA,

and it's a dream case if you're a defense lawyer. First of all, you don't have a photo. Second of all, you have her statement to her husband that that's what happened, and they are now divorced this has caused a rupture in their marriage uh they have a daughter the guidance have children and you know so this of course it ruptures the marriage i guess so i mean if i walked in and found david with another woman and either one of them were tied up doing a pull-up naked in a blindfold oh yeah fur would, fur would fly, Art. Fur would fly. You know it. But I want to get back to what concerns me. I don't care what they're doing in their private time.

I do not care. But what I care about is a crime. Now, you said this is tough to prove. How are you going to prove it? Well, I'll tell you how. It's called a jury trial. That's how. If they believe the woman, then they'll convict.

If they don't believe it was a legitimate blackmail, then they will not. That's how you prove it. Win or lose, you put it to a jury. You give it your best shot. Remember all those days in court together, Arne Harris? I remember you, Nancy, imploring the jury of a young woman who was 15 and looked older. But in your eyes, you told the jury, I'll never forget, she is a child of God. And, Nancy, they came back and they believed you and they believed the victim.

So, you know, you don't know what the jury is going to believe, but it does boil down to credibility. It really does. I'm just trying to figure out. I'm going to go back to Nima Haddadi on this. Nima, what is your understanding? I mean, I think I understand very well what is blackmail. But do you believe this is blackmail? Do you think a jury would convict?

You know, I don't. Based on the facts right now, technically, allegedly, yes. The way that the facts are put out there, if you were to believe the recording, yes, 100 percent. I believe that the jury would come back. They have the elements of blackmail. But I feel like for a defense attorney, there's a lot of issues. There's a lot of things missing. There's a lot of motive there. There's just it seems like a lot of issues. There's a lot of things missing. There's a lot of motive there. There's just, it seems like, a lot of issues to muddy the water.

Well, we've done some legal research, and Art Harris and I worked on a case like this together many, many years ago. But Missouri's wiretapping law is a one-party consent, which means if you're on the phone and you're talking to someone, one of you agrees to be taped and the other one doesn't know, that's okay. You can record your own conversations, and that is what the ex-husband did in this scenario.

He taped his conversations with his wife as she was describing this sex encounter with the governor. You know what? I hate to see a good governor, if he is in fact a good governor, a Navy SEAL, a veterans charity organizer, a Rhodes Scholar, go crashing down. I especially hate to see his family go crashing down over an affair if the wife wants to put their relationship back together. But if blackmail is involved, that, as I said, is a whole nother can of worms. We are on it. You know, switching gears very quickly. Are you exhausted, Art Harris?ris okay because you've got the two boys you've raised you've got a much younger wife okay i'll just put that out there you're

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plus indicator strips to see how Super Beats is working for you, plus free shipping. 800-516-0683. Or go online to nanc'sbeats.com today. I need the energy and I'm getting it with Super Beats. Thanks Super Beats. Now I'm traveling across the country. In fact, we're heading to Cuyahoga County in Cleveland and the medical examiner's office, we have learned that the remains of a four-year-old tot have been discovered. Not only have they been discovered, no one has claimed them. To Art Harris, Crime Stories contributing reporter, Art, what can you tell me? How can someone not notice their four-year-old child is missing?

Nancy, this is something that has traumatized even the homicide detectives. He's never seen a case like this in the 17 years on the force. They have found skeletal remains of a four-year-old in garbage bags in the back of a vacant house. This was back on September 20th. Landscaper finds the bag, sees the skeleton, calls police. They're taken to the medical examiner's office, and she does a facial reconstruction and develops a photo of this child, and the police put it out on the media. No one has come forward to say they have lost a child, a child is missing. And the theory is, well, maybe it came off,

someone came off the highway near here and tossed the child. So it may not be local, but this is a horrible mystery that someone would not come forward and claim this body, this child. No one has reported a child missing. And so, Nancy, this is something for CSI. Take a listen to Detective Entenot. I've been homiciding now for almost 17 years, and this is the first case I've had like this. To Alan Duke joining me in L.A., Alan, this is not some, quote, bad area of town. This is a pretty nice looking home. And the child is found amidst garbage bags in the back. But the kicker is it's

under construction. They're renovating or remodeling or rebuilding. And workers are the ones that found the skeletonized remains. It was a landscaper who was cleaning up the yard. Apparently, they're getting ready to reoccupy it, but it's unoccupied now and has been apparently for a while. But, yeah, nobody was living there. The fact that it was amongst or in trash bags says to me this was a homicide because a child does not die by accident without 911 being called, say they drowned in the bathtub or they fell or they got run over in the street. You would typically call 911.

Why would you put, you know, as much like top mom Casey Anthony, why would you put the child in a trash bag and throw away the body unless it was a nefarious death? Now, this child has been skeletonized. So the child has been there, according to them, at least several months. The child is around four years old with dark, wavy hair. That's all we know. Now, Art, you and I have been working together on many many cases and we know that it is phenomenal what sketch artists can do as far as reconstructing what a corpse would look like

in life and they've done a pretty good job. It's astounding what the artist has done here, Nancy. And, you know, this is a, she's given the child a personality, it looks like in these photos, even a smile. And the smile she made because she found several teeth and thinks that even one of them was a little chipped. And so the picture depicts a happy child here before he ran into a terrible trauma and was tossed like a piece of garbage. You know, the fact that what you just told me, a chipped tooth, that indicates to be some type of impact.

If the tooth is still in the mouth, that means the child had impact to the mouth, forcibly enough to chip a tooth. It's not like animals got a hold of it and they found the tooth outside the body and anything could really have happened to it. This chipped tooth was still in the child's mouth, which tells me there was a forcible impact to the mouth. Also, the date. The child's been there about four months, so we're looking for a four-year-old that's been gone at least four months.

Dark, wavy hair. Also, DNA. There should be, if there's any hair, enough hair to get a nucleus, which means the root of your hair. From that, if it's allowed in the state, I would advise familial DNA, a familial DNA search. Alan Duke, you and I have gone round and round about familial DNA. What that is is say, Art Harris, sorry, but you're about to be dead in this scenario.

I find Art Harris's body. I don't know who it is. So I take Art's DNA and I compare it through familial DNA to everybody in CODIS. That is the nationwide directory of DNA.

It's basically DNA of a lot of the felons and some misdemeanors across the country. It will identify if this DNA is related to anybody behind bars right now or anybody in their family. Alan, don't you think that would be a good next step? Yeah, yeah. Well, the nice thing about familial DNA is while Art doesn't have a criminal record, maybe his evil sister does. Not that I know he's got one, but let's say her DNA is in the system and they can match it up and say, okay, somebody related to this woman is our perpetrator or a suspect. And they will then start looking around in the family. Then you go to that woman and say, hey, tell me about your relatives. Who could have possibly done this? Now here you would be doing it in reverse. You've got

the victim's DNA from a root, a nucleus of the hair. And if you've got a tooth still attached and a gum, you might be able to get DNA there. So you would be trying to find somebody related to this child behind bars. And I'm happy to report that in this jurisdiction, Ohio, they do allow the use of familial DNA. Take a listen to what the police say in this most recent press conference. There was a homicide in that same area around the same time frame that we discovered these remains and we thought it may have been connected but no it's not connected at all. Anything else? There's going to be people out there who think,

how could a 4-year-old just disappear and no one can connect to them? And what would you say to that person? I would say that there is somebody that misses this 4-year-old. They just haven't put the pieces together to know that we're looking for this person so that sketch that guys have blasted out every place I mean we checked every known database that we have for a child of that age range to be missing and we can't find one that matches this description so of course there's somebody that the child didn't just end up there. So we're just asking the public's help and identifying this child and

giving us some kind of closure and information as to how this transpired so that we can finish this case. But again to Dr. Tiffany Sanders, Chicago psychologist, how do you not notice your four-year-old child is gone for four months? Nancy, it's unthinkable. It makes me question the parent's love and care for the child, which obviously is probably nothing, and whether that child was abused or neglected when they were under her care. So this is a person who is callous. They have no regard for human life. That's why they didn't probably file a police report and maybe drop that body off in a different location. These parents did not do what a parent's supposed to do, love, protect, teach, care, guide their child. And this young, unfortunate, beautiful four-year-old could have been a valuable member to our society.

It is a little boy. It's a little boy with wavy, dark hair. The sketch artist put the hair down to just down the neck. Take a listen. This little boy did have a strong chin. He had all six of his top front teeth so I did him smiling because the teeth can be very diagnostic meaning we recognize and I think the tip of one of his canines was a little bit chipped and I think that even shows in the picture I drew. I'm just looking at this sketch it's incredible it's a really good sketch for anyone with any information. Help us. Help us identify this child. The tip line, 216-721-5610. Press 1.

216-721-5610 or 216-623-5464. 216-623-5464 216-623-5464 The location is Cuyahoga County. The remains of this little four-year-old boy were found on Longmead Avenue. There's no doubt about it. Right now, we're trying to determine the cause of death. The medical examiner's office says they are still in the early stages of their investigation to establish an identification and a cause of death. They're still working on it.

I guess, Art Harris, the fact that the child is skeletonized, it's going to be very difficult to determine COD, cause of death. You know, they've got to rule out all sorts of things. Nancy, you've done strangulation death, for example. Is the hyoid bone broken in the neck? And that's one thing they would want to rule out. You know, what about these teeth? I mean, you suggest that perhaps a victim of domestic abuse of sorts, maybe the mother's boyfriend, what's happened to the mother, we don't know. But the tooth is chipped. Could it have been from a bicycle fall?

I mean, all these things have to be ruled out, but they're working backwards. Listen to Detective Entenot. This Longmead address is close proximity to Interstates 71 and 480. So maybe someone is passing through trying to find a place to dump the child, trying to get the child identified. Several people have called, offered information who it could be. There's been quite a bit of DNA testing already trying to identify the child, but so far the child is unidentified.

If you have information, please help us solve the mystery of this tiny child's remains. I want to pause and thank our partners who are making our program today on SiriusXM 132 possible as we investigate the discovery of this tot's remains. It's LegalZoom. And here's the question. What's your story in 2018? The holidays are over. There's no excuse left. Now let LegalZoom make this a memorable year before other distractions take hold. Make this the year you get serious about launching and running your business or rest easier knowing your family's future is squared away with the right estate plan. LegalZoom has

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but for being our partner on SiriusXM 132 today. Now we travel to Lancaster, South Carolina, where a three-year-old little girl has been found dead. Police in Lancaster stunned to find this child dead. To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, what do we know about the cause of death? The cause of death is listed as blunt force trauma to the head in this particular case, Nancy. That's right, Joe Scott. Police are saying in Lancaster County, well, actually the coroners are saying that this child died from blunt force trauma to the head, which resulted in bleeding inside the skull. It's akin to having a car crash. That's how severe

the head injury was. What causes bleeding to the brain or subdural bleeding? What happens, Nancy, is that when an individual is struck in the head, tiny little vessels rupture within the brain. And, you know, as we all know, our brain is contained within a little sack inside of our skull and then, of course, within skull. And that pressure begins to build up. You can imagine this little girl struggling for breath. And what happens is the vessels, the blood vessels in the brain essentially strangulate because it's so constricted and so tight and there's so much blood and there's no relief from this. I recall very well when my little nephew was struck by a car, a van, by a woman with three screaming kids in the back.

He was out riding his bicycle, and he had bleeding inside the skull. Luckily, he got raised to the hospital, and they put a shunt, S-H-U-N-T, in his skull. This is when I was still a prosecutor. And they did that to relieve the pressure on the skull. They actually bore a hole in his head and put a tube down the top into his head to relieve pressure. Because that kind of a blow to the head, your brain starts to swell. And it can only go so far because of your skull. And then once that happens, you die.

And I will never forget flying down the interstate to get to the hospital and walking in. And he had a tube coming out the very top of his head. And I remember this moment. I fell to my knees and started praying because, I mean, I'm no doctor, as we all know, but I knew how serious it was. I'm happy to report that he went on to, after a very, very long stay in Children's Hospital, to be a double major in college in chemistry and IT. And now he's a sharpshooter IT tech for a big corporation with a wife and a baby that moved in with me with their dog and cat.

So, you know, it can't have a happy ending if you go to the hospital that didn't happen with this little baby and i'm imagining the injury that by the second grew worse inside the child's this is a yes no answer joe sc Joe Scott Morgan could this type of trauma have happened accidentally it's like she was in a car crash but she was in a bathtub yes so you think she could have gotten multiple blows to the head while in the bathtub no okay so that's a yes no um that's not an answer. What the coroner is saying, it could not have happened accidentally. To Bobby Maxwell joining me, a contributing reporter with Crime Stories. Bobby, the cops were told that she was in the bathtub, that the babysitter checked on her, and she was looking around and breathing.

That's in the warrant. What more do we know, Bobby? Well, we know that she left the bathroom and when she came back, she said she was unresponsive. Who is she? Are you talking about the little baby? Kayla Cook was the one who then found little Lillian unresponsive. You mean the babysitter?

Kayla Cook is the girlfriend of little Lillian's father. She was the one in charge of her that day, and she was the one that put her in the bathtub, checked on her later, and found her unresponsive. So her story doesn't make any sense, Bobby. What more do we know about the girl being found unconscious, Lillian, not breathing when police were called to their Heath Circle home? What more do we know about her injuries? Um, Kayla Cook called 911 after saying the child was unresponsive. The child was supposed to be in the care of the grandmother, according to a Department of Social Services hand down. So Kayla wasn't even supposed to have the child in her care at that time.

The child did die by means of blunt force trauma, according to officials on the scene. And she had bruises on her body as well. When 911 was called and the responders got there, they said she was unresponsive and she did die in the hospital. She was covered in bruises, numerous bruises across her body. Okay, right there, covered in bruises, numerous bruises across her body. Okay, right there, covered in bruises. Joe Scott Morgan, speaking as a forensics expert, when you find a child with blunt force trauma to the head

and there are already bruises on her body, that screams pre-existing abuse to me if the bruises are already visible and formed. Yes, you're absolutely right, Nancy. Explain that. Well, you're going to have bruises. And one of the things that we do in forensics is something called the aging of bruises. And this gives us an idea, you know, depending, we can all identify with an old bruise that we have on our body and how it changes colors. It's very simple. That's one of the things that we do when we're doing these examinations to

determine how long these bruises have been in place and have they been healing. Remember, these things are occurring in life. You don't get a bruise if you're dead. Okay. So this trauma has to happen in life. And the question is going back. Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on right there. Bruises don't happen when you're dead. Bruises do not happen post-mortem.

Why? Because the blood cannot coagulate or form at the point of impact because your blood is not pumping. You don't get bruises post-mortem post after mortem death post-mortem bruising does not happen and at the time they find the baby with her head bashed in a three-year-old little lillian with her head bashed in the tub from numerous blows when you fall in the bathtub you one blow. You don't fall and then fall again on the other side of your head and then fall again on the front and fall again on the back. That doesn't happen. That is against the laws of nature. So multiple blows to the head do not

happen that way. Plus she's covered in bruises, bruises that are visible when the EMTs get there. What does that mean? That means the bruises existed before. That means to me the child was beaten before this day. That's what I'm saying, Joe Scott. You're right on target with that assessment, Nancy. And I think one of the bigger questions is going to the care of this child is how far back in time do these bruises go? Do we have bruises that date three, four, five days, maybe even a week prior to her death? And this goes to this idea of how much agony, how much torment was this poor little angel in prior to the fatal blow that was struck in the bathroom. What do we know, Bobby Maxwell joining us, investigative reporter, what do we know about this girlfriend, this Kayla Cook?

Well, we know that she was with her boyfriend, according to her Facebook page, for a good year, year and a half. And she was living with the boyfriend and the little toddler and was in her care that day. Kayla has children of her own, according to her Facebook page, and was in this relationship, but does not show a single picture on her Facebook page of little Lillian, who she had been with for a year and a half. This all goes down with the girlfriend in the home alone. Let me understand. Bobby Maxwell was the girlfriend, the 25-year-old Keala Cook,

the only one in the home at the time the child died. I mean, there's a theory in the law, which you know, Bobby, res ipsa loquitur, which means the thing speaks for itself. In law school, it's civil, not criminal, but in law school, they gave us the example of a big bag of flour falling out of a window onto somebody's head, and it kills them as they walk underneath, and nobody is in the in the room which means the thing speaks for itself it fell out the window on its own and must have been placed there negligently so here you've got her alone with a little girl in the home and the girl ends up beaten dead in the bathtub it speaks for itself as far as i'm concerned she's the only one home.

Who else could it have been? I mean, are we sure nobody else was home at the time? No one was home when the EMS got to the house. And Kayla was the one that made that 911 call. Her brain injuries were so severe, she died, quote, within minutes of the head injury. I want answers. If you know anything about this death, if you know anything about this investigation, please call Child Help 1-800-4-A-CHILD or the Lancaster Police Department, 803-283-1173. Repeat, 803-283-1173.

Nancy Grace, Prime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. you're listening to an iHeart podcast