Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DIDDY PERV: LICKS LIPS, RUBS HANDS TOGETHER, WANTS EXTRA TIME FOR CASSIE SEX SCENE

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Sean Diddy Combs' unsettling response to watching 'freak-off' tapes in a private part of court catches the attention of those around him in court. The rap mogul allegedly licks his lips and rubs his hands together after watching a 'freak-off' tape. The disgraced music mogul asks for extra time to watch tapes of his ex-girlfriend, Cassandra Ventura, having sex with male escorts while Combs watched. Diddy's defense lawyers say the videos prove the rapper was having consensual sex rather than committing crimes.  As Diddy's trial comes to a close, he grants full access to his biggest Hollywood supporter, Kanye West, who is supporting the disgraced rapper. During Kanye's first appearance, the "gold digger" rapper was escorted to an overflow room. Combs then adds West to his guest list and reports suggest West may attend the trial again as the defense presents their case. The jury could start deliberating as early as Friday, Sean "Diddy" Combs' lawyer, Teny Geragos, tells the judge. Geragos says the defense and prosecution will each take a minimum of four hours delivering closing arguments which may begin as early Thursday. Joining Nancy Grace today:   Troy Slaten - Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers; X@TroySlaten Dr. Bethany Marshall -) Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away” Also featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Tom Smith - Former NYPD Detective for 30 years - Narcotics, Robbery Squad, Gang Investigations - [was also assigned to the FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force. Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast]; FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow Dani Pinter - Senior Vice President and Director of Law Center, National Center on Sexual Exploitation, website: endsexualexploitation.org Rob Shuter - Host: Naughty But Nice Podcast, Former Publicist of Sean Combs, IG: @naughtygossip Tisa Tells - Pop Culture Investigator & Commentator and Host of 'Tisa Tells' on YouTube; YouTube: @TisaTells, Instagram & TikTok: @TisaTellss Lauren Conlin - Investigative Journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast, and also Host of "Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon; X- @Conlin_Lauren/ Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin/YouTube- @LaurenConlin4 Sydney Sumner - CRIME STORIES Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Diddy Perv. Sean Combs caught licking his lips and rubbing his hands together, demanding extra time for the Cassie Freikauf sex scene. Objection, ew. And Diddy testified once in a criminal case and he was acquitted.

Will he do it again? And tonight, Diddy's revenge, the state bracing for the Diddy defense. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I wanna thank you for being with us. 46,786. 50K on damages to a penthouse for one stay.

Instruments of violence that might have been in that room. So much baby oil, there were actually two slip and falls. Whips, maybe knives, maybe. They were sitting on top of freak-off germs. The state is plowing through its last witnesses in court. With me in All-Star panel to make sense of what we are learning from the courtroom today. But first, straight out to the Monahan Federal Courthouse

standing by is Tisa Tells. She is a pop culture investigator and star of Tisa Tells on YouTube. Tisa, what happened today? Today we found out some interesting stuff. First of all, this all-star defense they promised to put on has seemed to fall apart. Diddy has actually gone from saying it's going to be four weeks to two weeks to three to five days to today expect to wrap up in one day. They're also showing even more freak off tapes and Diddy is loving every second of it.

He has been licking his lips, he has been begging for more time. Today, he got so flustered from what was being shown on screen. He leaned in, got flustered, took his glasses off, leaned in closer, dropped things on the floor. Diddy is having a little bit too much fun for my taste. But you know what? We need to get this man... Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Freeze, freeze, halt, repeat. Okay, you're saying he's

having too much fun watching Cassie Ventura, the so-called love of his life, right behind the other love of his life, Kim Porter. Watching her with a male sex worker, I know he was licking his lips, gross, rubbing his hands together, ew, but you said he took off his fake glasses and did what? He leaned in closer and he got so discombobulated because listen, last time he was just watching Cassie and a man, today it was a new freak off tape

where there were sex workers, plural. Must have been too much. He was hot and bothered leaning in, getting the full view, got so flustered, he dropped stuff on the floor, picked it up and got right back to the screen. Diddy is having a little bit too much fun for my taste, but I guess this was the all-star

Kobe Bryant, Shaq Shaquille O'Neal, dream team Shaq attack playoff that he always made all his victims subjugate themselves to. Okay, you know what? I don't think Shaq or Jordan are gonna take very kindly to what you're saying, and poor Kobe not here to defend himself.

Troy Slaton, don't you tell your clients how to behave in court? The last thing that this jury needs to see as far as the Combs defense team goes is Sean Combs licking his lips. I'm not even gonna demonstrate that. Licking his lips, rubbing his hands together like he's getting to the good part of like a James Bond movie. He's rubbing

his hands together and visibly, visibly, oh, excited. Is that a decent way to put it? Watching the freak off with the second love of his life, Cassie Ventura. Although I appreciate your interpretation of Mr. Burns from the Simpsons, rubbing your hands together, Nancy, every eye of the jury, I don't have time to watch the Simpsons. is on the defendant. I'm working.

They are analyzing every single thing that he is doing. And of course, as a defense attorney, you are telling your client to wear certain clothes, to look a certain way, to not comment too much, to not whisper to them, but rather to write things down during the proceedings. Yes, every single juror has their eyes on the defendant during a trial and they're analyzing everything. You know, I'm thinking about how you should behave in front of a jury, what your client should be doing. I remember distinctly during the Scott Peterson case,

Peterson would have a very perplexed and deep thinking pose like, hmm, isn't that what Sean Combs should be doing right now? Well, Sean Combs should be looking like he's innocent. He should be looking like he doesn't agree with what the witnesses are saying. And I believe that the prosecutors are gonna have a hard time proving up all the elements of Rico, like I've said before. I think I found out what Sean Combs was writing and his defense attorney, you know, made him

stop writing it because the jury might see it. According to our sources, this is what he wrote. These are his trial notes. You know, so that's why he suddenly quit taking notes. Okay. That's some crack reporting, Nancy. But you know, defendants write things all the time. Slate, come on.

Can't you keep him from like, oh wait a minute. I've got more for you. Isn't it true, Tisa, tells that while the new freak off video is being played, he starts like shaking his leg uncontrollably? You know, like a dog scratching itself? Listen, it's like a dog that literally you're looking at him

and he's trying to act like he's just sitting there while he's trying to grab that bone. Whatever these defense lawyers told him to do, it has gone out the window because Diddy sees the only thing that dominated his life, a perversion for the last 10 years played out in front of him. And let's be serious,

Diddy is probably overdue for a free call? So this is Christmas in July, truly for this man. Joining me right now, special guest Rob Shooter. You know him well. He is the host of Naughty But Nice Awesome Podcast. You can find him at robshootershuter.substack.com, former publicist, PR guru for Sean Combs. He came to his senses and quit after a couple of years. Rob Shooter, thank you for being with us. Can Sean Combs not control himself?

The last thing he needs the jury to see is him licking his lips, like he's about to tuck into a T-bone, rubbing his hands together. It's so stupid. Like Dr. Evil. I mean, ew, in the middle of a freak-off tape. Yeah, I would have predicted that Puffy would have known better than this.

This is a guy who has very carefully created his image. The trouble is, is that the bigger you become as a star, the less people you listen to and you start just believing yourself. So even though he has a really good team of lawyers around him, I doubt he's listening to them. He never really listened to me or other people that worked with him.

It was his way or the highway. And I gotta say, Nancy, so far, at least until this moment, it's often worked out for Puffy. He's very successful. He's made a ton of money. This might be the end of that running streak, but when you- Hold on, Shooter. I don't think he's successful on his own.

No offense, but I think he's been successful and managed to stay out of trouble this long, largely because of enablers like Rob Schueter. Okay, not Rob Schueter, because you did come to your senses and quit. But all the people that buy him illegal drugs, the drug mule that testified, the bodyguard that physically dragged

Cassie Ventura back to a free cough, the other minion assistant that got immunity that hopped in the car on a gun ride to look for Suge Knight. It goes on and on and on. The accountant that explained in an email, idiot, how to get Cassie's parents to send extortion money. I mean, all of these people enabled him to become what he is now. He had a bubble around him, Christina Corum, who many people believe is an unindicted co-conspirator. I'm still wondering what happened to her,

why she didn't testify. But he was enabled to do this. You know, something you just said, the more famous you are, the more you don't know the word no. Listen to our friend Conan O'Brien. When you go to a hotel, anytime you go to a hotel, you don't just check in the way everybody else does, you send someone ahead to prepare the hotel room for you.

That's called preparing the sexy. That's from our friends at Conan O'Brien, the late show. And there, little did he, I'm really surprised, the state hasn't even played this. He is describing to Conan O'Brien on national TV how he sends his minions ahead of him to quote, prepare the sexy. But what the sexy has turned out to be, according to the state, is forced rape, sex trafficking due to coercion, drugging, beatings, and there's more, listen.

I work hard and I just like my room to be sexy. Sure Sure you like to prepare the sexy is what you're saying you can't just count on the sexy prepare the sexy. You have to make sure you go you go to do the proper measures to make sure that your sexy is there when you arrive. From our friends at the Conan O'Brien late night show is he that arrogant Rob Scheter? He's basically on live national TV bragging about free coughs, aka King night, aka hotel night, aka wild King night, which according to multiple victims that have filed all those civil lawsuits, the jury hasn't heard about them. But I dare, I dare the defense to bring in good character because that will bring in all of those prior bad acts,

alleged bad acts that so far the jury hasn't heard about. All those women, multiple women, including some minors, claim that they were drugged in their drinks and they wake up with their vaginas and their rear ends hurting. Obviously having had sex without their knowledge or consent. Okay, well I'm playing a Conan O'Brien clip and we're laughing about the way Sean Combs has responded to those videos in court. Think about it. This jury hasn't heard everything that we know.

Dozens. They've got a toll free number set up for it, for Pete's sake. Dozens of women describing being raped shooter. And I know in your line of business, you know, it's all glamorous, but in my line of business, I deal every day with child rape victims, adult rape victims, adults that were child rape victims, and their lives are forever changed, not in a good way,

in a very, very bad way. So is he that arrogant that he is bragging about it on Conan O'Brien? A really simple answer is yes. We've got the evidence. Nancy, this case is not that hard to anybody who has been paying attention. Now let's see if the evidence can stand up to one of the most famous, rich, successful people in the world. Diddy is used to getting his own way. His money, his power, his celebrity has given him a life that we can never ever imagine. Let's see if this is the end of it. I think we all know where the evidence is pointing.

You know, Rob Schueter, I hate everything that you just said. But I'm concerned, I'm concerned that it may be true. Because as you well remember, to Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills, the author of Dealbreakers, you can see her on Peacock, and you can find her online at DrBethanyMarshall.com. As you well recall, I thought the evidence was very clear in the O.J. Simpson trial. And I still think the evidence is very clear. But fame, popularity was stronger in the jury's mind than the evidence in that picture of Nicole Brown. I'll never forget with her face all swollen up in red on one side where he had beaten her horribly. Those 911 calls

where she's saying he's breaking the door down, he's going to kill me. None of that mattered. The victim's blood on his socks for Pete's sake. None of it mattered. At the civil trial, I believe he scored a negative 43 on his polygraph. But it didn't carry the day. It did not carry the day. Could it happen again, Bethany? You know, Nancy, I think our society is, and maybe hopefully not the jury, not clear about what abuse and specifically sexual abuse is. One person getting their needs met at the other person's expense, derogatory language, threatening to pull resources from that victim if they don't comply, profiting in some way from the victim's sexual activity. I think we see all of this,

and I would guess Nancy that P. Diddy is not getting his sexual needs met behind bars. So that video of the alleged freak-offs and abuse, that's very exciting for him, Nancy. Sex addicts need continual stimulation. And one of the reasons they need it is there's a type of deadness or inner emptiness that can only be compensated for by a ton of excitement.

Unless he's just gonna keep working out or abusing another inmate or having sex through the vents or whatever he's doing, he's gonna rely on those tapes. Their imaginations are endless, Nancy. So he's going to have to rely on his imagination quite a bit from here on out. Joining us, special guest, Danny Pinter, senior VP, director of the Law Center, National Center on Sex Exploitation. Danny, thank you for being with us. I'm concerned. I'm worried. I'm worried that the same thing will happen in Simpson, in this case, as did Simpson,

where his vast popularity carried the day. Those jurors, and I met many of them, they felt that they knew Ornithal James Simpson because of all of his football stardom, because of his movies, his car rental ads. They thought they knew him, and the Simpson they thought they knew could never have committed double homicide. But he did, and the evidence proved it. But it didn't matter. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right to be worried, but I have a lot of hope. Similar to the Conan O'Brien interview we just saw, there's been many instances of that.

Diddy's freak-offs were a bit of an open secret. I think that will help. I think the fact that he has been arrogantly bragging about his activity for so long, plus I think we fact that he has been arrogantly bragging about his activity for so long. Plus, I think we've come further than our society has come further than in the past in understanding some of the dynamics that the doctor was talking about with sexual abuse. So hopefully that public education combined with Diddy's brazen public admissions will help the jury's biases not interfere with the evidence, which I agree with you is very strong. We are live at the Monahan Federal Courthouse

and the trial of Shawn Combs, a multi-count federal indictment, including sex trafficking charges, and outside the courthouse joining us, Tisa Tells, investigator and host of Tisa Tells on YouTube. Tisa, we got carried away with Sean Combs' odd behavior in the courtroom when he was re-watching sex freak-offs with multiple sex workers. Obviously enthralled, asking for more time to view the video privately,

rubbing his hands together, licking his lips, shaking his legs. Can we move on from that abysmal and horrific scene you've conjured up for me in my head to what's happening in the courtroom? What's happening in the courtroom is you see Diddy's team moving the goalpost once again. They are saying that now they expect one day,

they're gonna read a lot of exhibits. Diddy is looking at them, side-eyeing them, looking around. It's almost like they just didn't communicate in the back not even 20 minutes ago before he came out into the courtroom. Which makes you think if he's still trying a last ditch desperate attempt to testify in front of the jury because people say there's a good chance that he will not take the stand. But at the end of the day,

who wants to open the Pandora's box? That is Diddy. Again, to Rob's point, this man has been told he is yes, he is right. He literally truly seems to believe that a decade of depravity is a lifestyle choice. I guess going to hell and being one of the demons that walk the earth is a lifestyle choice. Again, he's not grounded in reality. The fence seems to be losing control of him. And again, it's just very, very stark. We're all waiting for Thursday when they have both agreed they will rest their case.

But as of now, it's a bit astonishing to see. Teas of Tales they started off saying, the defense did, that it would be a four or five week defense case. Then it went down to about three weeks, two weeks, and now it's a day? Is that right? One day. That is exactly right. One day. One day, and they are literally arguing about whether they will read exhibits for most of that day. Again, like everybody else has said on this panel, you don't wanna open that Pandora's box. But again, I just wanna say from sitting in the courtroom,

every single time Diddy's team says A, it's usually B. So we're waiting to see, is this some holy moly Hail Mary to catch the prosecution off balance? And there will be a surprise witness, but right now it looks like they are hanging their heads in defeat. So you stated that you believe that what's happening is the defense team is trying to strong arm Sean Combs into not taking the stand. Okay, don't move.

Rob Shooter joining us, host of Naughty But Nice podcast. Rob explain to me the likelihood that the defense team can talk Sean Combs out of anything and remember, as you well know, he was acquitted in a criminal case, guns charges, a shooting at a nightclub, a woman got shot in the face for Pete's sake. He was acquitted and he testified. So he may be relying on that as an excuse to take the stand. Is there any way the defense can corral him and keep him from getting on the stand?

Nancy, I've said since day one, he's gonna take the stand. I've been right on everything so far in this trial. I don't think I'm gonna be wrong now. He believes in himself. He believes he's the smartest person in the room. He believes he's the best looking person in the room. He believes he's the best strategist. And for the last 20 years,

that attitude has served him very well. You just pointed out he did this before and he got off. He's not gonna change his playbook, his rule book right now and there is almost no one on earth except one person who could convince him to do otherwise that person is his mommy. She's the only person, Janice Combs, who he has ever, ever listened to. ["The Daily Show Theme"] Crime stories with Nancy Grace. All the speculation aside

as to what Sean Combs will do regarding taking the stand, while many court watchers insist, like Troy Slaton for one, that the state hasn't proven its case, there is one count that I feel confident the state has a lock on it. Listen. HSI Special Agent Pendlin reviews receipts and payments made for a September 2014 meeting. Records show Combs used his American Express card to purchase a round-trip flight from New York to Los Angeles for an escort referred to as Dave and to book a hotel reservation

under his assistant Ely Maroon's name. Five different bank accounts were used to pay off those credit card charges, including some linked to Bad Boy Entertainment and Combs Enterprises. Straight out to Tisa Tells joining us at the courthouse, and you can see her on YouTube, at Tisa Tells. Tisa, there is a specific charge in the federal indictment, it's count three, transporting sex workers across straight lines for the purposes of prostitution. That is a federal charge that off the top of my head carries 10 to 15. So there's no way around that.

It's his American Express charge. He did it. He arranged it or had his minion do it. When the jury was listening to that Homeland Security Special Agent Penland, were they paying attention or were they dozing off? I got to be honest with you, they were paying attention. But again, it is like being stuck in the seventh level of hell at the DMV next to the devil's playground.

It was not the most exciting thing. However, the prosecution kept hammering one thing home that was very helpful. Here is the flight log, here is the text messages, here is the credit card charge over and over and over. The jury's eyes did seem to glaze over, but it glazed over in understanding. It glazed over in understanding,

and no matter how the defense tried to cover that up, when they came back for redirect, it was a game. Here is the credit card receipt, here is the messages saying, hey, just come up. We're ready. Going to take a breather. So they did an excellent job of laying it out. I would also go on to say that not only do they have them on the transporting sex workers across state lines for

Commercial Sex Act, dead to rights, they also have them on bribery. Let's not forget, did they not reach out to Eddie Garcia? Did they not give a duffel bag full of cash? Did they not actually demand he sign an NDA on Combs Global stationary and send pictures of everybody's ID just so we could know 10 years later, the bribery and the conspiracy that happened with that.

So on two predicate acts, it looks like they have them dead to rights. No questions asked. And the defense had barely any thing to say about that. Tastes to tells, I understand that cigar aficionados across the world are shuddering because Sean Combs used expensive humidor's to store his baby oil in lube. What happened? What happened is it led us into his head. First of all, how cheap do you have to be to be a billionaire and you are getting a

humidifier to make sure your 99-cent baby oil doesn't go bad? Baby oil, I believe, have a shelf life of forever. It showed how seriously it took it. It showed out of everything in his life, he needed to make sure that it was top level purity. Again, it baffles, but it also shows what he prioritized. And as much as every time the defense just tries to make it seem like,

oh, you mean the baby oil. The jury is also always having puzzled and disgusted. Looks like why would you do this? And this wasn't the true intent. And what you spent most of your time doing, Nancy, you made a good point about he had others running his empire. And the one thing this man cared about more than money, more than time, more than his children was making sure

that he was always ready to go for a freak off. That's the one thing we can guarantee. Robb Schieder joining us. You can find him at robbschieder.substack.com. Robb, did you hear what she said? How can literally a billionaire, that starts with B as in brother, billionaire, be this cheap.

I wanna hear what, if anything, you observed when you worked with Combs. I think part of the reason he's a billionaire is because he was cheap. Those parties he threw, those big white parties, he never paid a dollar for those parties. They were all subsidized, they were all sponsors. Puff knew how to hit the phones and raise money.

He wasn't a terribly successful rapper or artist. He was a behind the scenes businessman and Puff was really cheap. He would never pay unless he absolutely had to. So I'm not at all surprised that he's buying in bulk and he's making sure that the expiration date does not expire. He is a cheap individual who has a lot of money.

And I've got to say, in my experience of working with many, many stars, that's not that unusual. You told me earlier that he wanted to eat at fancy restaurants for free. He wanted free tickets to Fashion Week, to sit on the front row. He wanted to fly free, to eat free, to attend events like NBA games all for free.

Why? He's got the money to pay for it. Because it made him feel powerful, Nancy. It made him feel special, Nancy. You know what it's like if you're at a restaurant and you get a free piece of birthday cake, you feel great. Every day of his life, he needed people to tell him, to show him just how special he believed he is.

And for the most part, everybody played along. Shooter, I don't get it. How can you pick up the phone at 3 a.m. and make your assistant wander around Manhattan to find cheesecake? Not any cheesecake, not the cheesecake in the freezer section at D'Agostino's. Not that cheesecake. I mean cheesecake from a high-end five-star restaurant and you get it. Or demand a better seat. I mean did anybody ever say no Combsbs? N-O, ever? They didn't.

No, Nancy, they didn't. Nobody around him ever said no to him. And if you did, you weren't around him for much longer. That's why I really feel for his lawyers here. He has some really great lawyers, but they have been literally restrained, put on a leash by Puffy. He thinks he knows better than every single one of those

really qualified people there on his defense team. And so he is running the show. He runs his life. He's running the show. And for the first time ever, his bag of magic tricks might not work. You know, what's interesting, Rob Sheeter, is that apparently it was a not a very well kept secret about the Free Coughs that many many people knew about them but yet famous celebs would continue to flock to his party and be around him. you know the lyrics of Eminem who I love when he rapped about Sean Combs and said I think the phrase goes RAPER he didn't live he didn't leave out of P did he nobody got it he spelled rape er and then named P. Diddy. What? Was nobody listening? I was listening. The world knew. But everybody, and now all these celebs are going,

oh, not me, I wasn't there. They were there. They were there eating the food, drinking the liquor, going to these parties, and they knew what was happening. They may not have attended the free coughs, but it was not very secretive. Yeah, yeah, the whispers were there. I recently wrote a column for The Hollywood Reporter about this, and I used to convince myself that I didn't know anything, and after a lot of reflection,

I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to know anything, and there's a big difference there. Celebrity, money, fame, Nancy, we've seen this happen a lot. There was a lot of people around Michael Jackson. There was a lot of people around OJ Simpson. Fame, money, power, it is intoxicating. And now I think a lot of people out there

who were in business with Puff have a reckoning. They have to come forward. They have to say anything. They're not, but I think they do. I think eventually they've all got a sense of it. CRIME STORIES CRIME STORIES WITH NANCY GRACE Never know which way a trial is going to go.

You really don't know what the witness is going to say, who could have predicted a leak, who could have predicted all the motions for mistrial. Evidence starts pouring from the witness stand during the state's case, and you look at your client like, that is nothing like what you told me really happened. It has literally been weeks

and the Monahan Federal Courthouse for the state. What does the defense hold? Step back and do a Hail Mary. Right now, by all accounts, Sean Combs is at peak ditty as he awaits the commencement of the defense case. And in a shocking development, the defense has dwindled from five weeks to four weeks to three weeks to two weeks to one day. Is this real or is this just a fake-off on the state so they'll be flat-footed when it comes time

for a possible rebuttal case or even closing arguments. The defense announcing they plan to rest in the next 24 to 36 hours. Can that be real? Now, I want you to listen to what came out in court. What Sean Combs had the gall to tell Cassie Ventura. A text chat in May 2017 shows how differently the couple views their relationship. Ventura writes to Combs, You get up, you drag me down the hall by my hair.

I'm 30 years old. This isn't play anymore. I was scared of your rage. I talk out of line sometimes and I do apologize, but that doesn't mean I don't love you and your love shouldn't equate to what you do for me. Physicality takes it somewhere else. Boris had to tackle you puff.

That's not love, that's possession. I have bleeding cuts. Combs responds that Ventura is unappreciative, saying, I'm not going to let someone on me when all I've done is be nice. Any other woman in the world would have been so happy. You're whack for not keeping it real when I and everyone knows you were acting like a b****. You know what?

I hardly know how to respond to that, but I do know I would read it over and over and over to the jury joining me Tom Smith former NYPD detective 30 years in narcotics robbery gang investigation also FBI joint terrorism task force he is now the co-host of the gold shields podcast you can find him at the gold shield show.com Tom he's nothing more than a thug and a pimp did you hear this she's saying I've got bleeding cuts you dragged me by my hair and he says I'm not gonna let someone on me when all I've done is be nice really you saw the Cassie Ventura beat down video right Tom all I've done is be nice any other woman in the world would

be so happy you're wack for not keeping it real when I and everyone knows you you were acting like a b****. That's exactly what pimps do to the prostitutes. They coerce and beat into working for them, turning trick after trick after trick. Absolutely. It's all about intimidation and power and having something over their victims. And that's what Cassie is, she's a victim. And he exploited that at every chance he could with all that, with the beatings, with the dragging, with the intimidation of ruining her if she didn't comply. And that is all part of Sean Combs' persona when it comes to this case. And that's what they're going to nail him on. And that's the coercion that this girl lived with with being with Shawn Combs. You know, Tom Smith, when you get a pimp, okay, and it's usually the women, the sex

workers that are prosecuted, the pimp and the John, they're not prosecuted. It's the sex worker, the woman that gets prosecuted. In this case against Shawn Combs, I say he is nothing more than a pimp. Could you explain how pimps manage to keep the women that work for them in check? Well, it's all fear, it's violence and intimidation. And the difference in Shawn Combs and a normal street pimp is that no one is going to go against a street pimp because they're so scared. Whereas Sean Combs, there's so much corroborating evidence against him about acting like this and what he's done to these victims. And that's the difference between going after a street kid and Sean Combs.

And you're right. That's all he is, is a pimp. Bottom line. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I want you to weigh in on what Tom Smith has just said. Cause when I look at combs, I don't see a star. I see a pimp. And every pimp I've ever prosecuted had to be a felony

by the time I got ahold of it. Beat the women, drugged the women, threatened them, coerced them, threatened their families. The way we saw what happened to the threats on Cassie Ventura's family. They had to go take out a home equity loan to pay his blackmail, according to the state. It's the same thing. It's no different. But you know, Nancy, what breaks my heart the most when I listen to these communications

is what I see in my office, that women come in thinking at first that there's a real relationship, that that man is going to protect them, that the initial three-way is just a little bit of wild excitement at the beginning of a relationship, that the first outfit that the guy buys when they go shopping is like, oh my God, he loves me. He probably has never bought a cocktail dress for anybody else before. So they do get seduced into thinking there is a unique primary relationship. Women do not choose to be abused. They get drawn in little by little interaction by interaction. And then once it becomes full blown, if you listen to this interaction between P. Diddy and Cassie,

he's not listening to anything she says. Nothing is taken in, nothing is digested. He's just rejecting everything she says, and he's trying to get more and more power over her. So unfortunately for her, what begins as what is imagined as a real relationship turns into a reign of terror. Troy Slaton with me, veteran trial lawyer out of the LA jurisdiction at Slaton Lawyers. Troy, I don't know if you've managed to get the vision

of Sean Combs hunched over that video screen, licking his lips and rubbing his hands together, demanding extra time to watch Cassie Ventura on video with the three sex workers that he has flown in for the freak-off. I don't know if you can get that out of your mind and focus on legal analysis. I want to hear your take. There's no way he can get out of count three, which is paying to bring sex workers across state lines for prostitution. No way out, at least on that count. Well, I know that the defense pointed out that this so-called escort company, one of them called Cowboys for Angels, only advertises entertainment.

They don't advertise that it's for the purposes of sex. And I look at a really close analogy, Nancy. Imagine somebody in New Jersey hires a stripper, a male stripper for a bachelorette party, and they cross state lines for the purposes of performing at a bachelor at or bachelor party. And then let's say some of the people there at that party engage that entertainer for sex.

Does that mean that the purpose of the transportation was for legal entertainment, although in a sexual way? Or does that mean that person was transported for the purpose of a sex act? So I think that there's some nuances there. And I also notice in the photographs that you were showing, some of the evidentiary photographs like the Astro Glide all lined up perfectly, like it was on a shelf at CVS. That was all done by an assistant.

That wasn't Diddy setting up all those bottles. That's what billionaires and high net worth people do, even in their refrigerators, in their Sub-Zero, in their kitchen. They make sure that every single bottle has the label facing forward. That's what people like to see. And that's likely what their assistant set up for them.

That doesn't mean that Diddy was putting those things in the humidor himself. That was so his assistant could show that they were doing something good for their value, for their time, for what they were being paid for. That's what I see. You know, Slayton, you really are amazing. You are. And I've always heard the devil is silver-tongued. And if you listen too long, it's like a snake charmer. The more you watch it, the more you become symbiotic with it, and you're in the groove

and you start accepting it. You're really good like that. But let's talk about the nuances you just described. So let's follow your train of thought, your assertion, technical, legal term BS, to its logical conclusion. So you're trying to say- You call it BS. I call it an analogy. I admire that. That, okay, that Sean Combs, with his own American Express card, flies a sex worker,

and it's not across the border from Jersey to New York. It's from LA to New York. You call it a sex worker? I think they call themselves an escort, which is not even. From LA to New York. And your theory is he was brought that far just to dance around in some anal floss a G string and

then Cassie Ventura suddenly said oh my stars I must have sex with him on video and I must be beaten by Sean Combs in the middle of it for not doing it correctly so that would be your theory that Combs flew the sex worker, the male sex worker across the country, a five hour flight to New York and then to dance around in a G string. That that's what you're saying. That's the nuance lie that you just said. Well, Nancy, I was never at one of Diddy's freak offs. I was never invited to any of the the white party or any of the white party or any of the other parties of Diddy.

So, well, I'm telling you, I wasn't there. But what I can tell you is that people can get caught up in the celebrity in a moment. And although they may not have been transported for the purpose of the sex act for actually having sex, maybe they were transported for a legal reason and then decided to engage in the sex act because they got caught up in the moment and in the celebrities.

Maybe they were transported to go to Carnegie Hall and listen to the opera. Maybe that's why they came, but somehow they ended up butt naked with a bunch of other sex workers workers raping Cassie Ventura. You tried to say that he's like no other street pimp, but Nancy, here's the huge difference. I said he is like every other street pimp. Well here's the difference Nancy, every street pimp gets, does what they do for money.

They're making money on it. This was not some sort of enterprise that was making Diddy money by allegedly transporting an escort you call a sex worker across the state line. That didn't make him money. That cost him money. Now, we remember an American hero, Officer Tara O'Sullivan, Sacramento PD, just 26, gunned down in the line of duty, had served only six months before she was shot dead. Survived by grieving parents Dennis and Kelly. American hero, Tara O'Sullivan. Nancy Grace signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.