Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DIDDY’S FOUL FETISH: 'YOU NEED TO GLISTEN'; CASSIE RELIVES HUMILIATING SEX ACTS WITH STRANGERS

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Casandra Ventura, known as Cassie, gives her second day of testimony as the prosecution’s key witness in the sex-trafficking trial of disgraced rap mogul Sean "Diddy" Combs. Cassie, the ex-girlfriend of the rapper, tells the court that Combs asked her to get into an inflatable pool filled with baby oil. She continues to describe the abuse she endured during events she called “freak-offs,” saying Combs later used video recordings of the encounters to blackmail her. Cassie alleges she repeatedly suffered from urinary tract infections as a result of the "freak-offs," to the point that she became immune to antibiotics. She testifies that Combs forced her to perform during her menstrual cycle and took away her possessions if she upset him in any way. Combs faces charges of racketeering, sex trafficking, and transportation to engage in prostitution. The 55-year-old denies all charges. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life in prison. Follow Crime Stories with Nancy Grace for the latest on the government’s case against Sean "Diddy" Combs Joining Nancy Grace today: Neama Rahmani - Former Federal Prosecutor, Trial Attorney, President - West Coast Trial Lawyers, and Author: “Harvard to Hashtag;" INSTAGRAM: @Neamarahmani, X: @NeamaRahmani Dr. Bethany Marshall-  Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive Tom Smith - Former NYPD Detective for 30 years - Narcotics, Robbery Squad, Gang Investigations, and Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast; FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow Rachel Fischer - Registered Nurse; Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE); Expert Witness; Private Investigator; Author: "Taking Back the Pen;" Forensic Nursing Consulting and Education LLC Lauren Conlin - Podcaster, Reporter, Host- Co-Host of "PopCrimeTV" on YouTube;  X- @Conlin_Lauren, Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin, YouTube: @PopCrimeTV Sydney Sumner - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You need to glisten. What? You need to glisten, according to Sean Crimes. What does that mean? Pregnant mom, Cassie Ventura, on the stand under oath, reliving humiliating sex acts. She was forced to perform with strangers on video.

It's all about Diddy's foul fetish. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. We are live at the courthouse going straight out to Lauren Conlon, investigative reporter, host of Pop Crime TV. Lauren, thank you for being with us. What's happening in court today? We are learning about what a vile human Diddy is, as if we didn't already know. Cassie is still on the stand, and we are actually seeing never before seen photographs of black eyes, fat lips.

We actually saw a photo of her eyebrow after she told us that when she was sleeping one night, Diddy came in and just attacked her and her friends and threw her against a bed, the corner of a bed where she split her eyebrow open. And that's not all, Nancy. We are learning that Cassie experienced mouth sores during these freak offs, many UTIs. And she sat up there on the stand and told us that she was expected to go through with these freak offs while she had the UTIs. I mean, it is it is heartbreaking and just painful to listen to. What does she say? How does she respond? What is her

demeanor? I mean, she says over and over here, Nancy, how young she was and how regretful she is and what she could have said at the time. But she was so young that she didn't know how to verbalize it. She did break down on the stand a few times. Day two, Day three, we aren't seeing her as emotional. She appears to be very strong. But again, she is saying over and over, I wish I never did this. I wish I did things differently. She's incredibly strong. I mean, think about it. She is up there eight months pregnant with two toddlers at home, having to relive the most humiliating and terrifying time of her life. And Nancy, I mean, what Cassie Ventura went through, I want justice for Cassie here. I will say it. I want justice for Cassie. She is truly heroic. And I mean,

you can tell she's a little uncomfortable, of course, physically and of course, emotionally, but she's not holding back. I mean, there was you can tell she's a little uncomfortable, of course, physically and, of course, emotionally. But she's not holding back. I mean, there was another instance that she spoke about where she appeared to take too much GHB. She described going into a G-hole. This is before a freak off. And she described waking up nude in the shower with Diddy and another escort hovering over her, freaking out. She kind of comes to and I'm thinking, OK, they're going to take her to a hospital at this point. Nope. Diddy says, you're ready for the freak off. Wow. OK, so a lot to take in. Lauren Conlon has been

in the courtroom the entire day and is telling us what the jury is hearing from the witness stand. You stated that Cassie Ventura described earlier today being in a G-hole. That's from GHB, gamma hydroxybutyrate, which is a date rape drug, completely passed out. And as soon as she comes to naked in a shower, Sean comes and says, OK, let's go. She also described being forced to perform in free coughs when she was on her period and she didn't want to, but she did. She also described Lauren Conlon, where she would basically have to drug herself to get through yet another free cough. Lauren Conlon. Yes. Yes. I mean, she really seemed to live a very sad existence for 11 years of her life. And I think many of us watching here all feel the same way. I mean, justice for Cassie,

Nancy. She also described a time in Cannes where she was at the Cannes Film Festival and she was staying on a boat with Sean Combs and he got upset with her that morning. He kicks her off a boat without her shoes, without her passport, anything. She has to walk over to the staff hotel and she doesn't see him until later that evening. And then we're shown a picture of her on the red carpet looking glam at the Cannes Film Festival. She described that she has some bruises

covered up with makeup and she sits through this this premiere with sean where he is squeezing her leg as hard as he can while she's wearing this beaded dress she gets on a plane she tries not to sit next to him he switches seats with somebody in order to sit with her and then during that flight, Nancy, he proceeds to torment her by showing her freak off videos and threatening her. OK, and there are other people around and then they land in New York City and then they go to dinner. And she says after that, I was expected to do a freak off. And my stomach is I mean, my stomach is turning. We are live at the courthouse and now also joining us, Sydney Sumner, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. The evidence has been pouring from the witness stand all day.

There were thoughts that we would get to Cassie Ventura cross-examination. Her direct examination is a bomb in that courtroom. Sydney Sumner, what else is happening in the courtroom? Well, Nancy, in addition to what Lauren told us, we've also heard about an instance of abuse in 2013 when Combs attacked Cassie in her own apartment while her friends were there. Her friends moved to protect her, jumped on Combs' back, but at one

point, Combs threw Cassie into the side of her bed, causing a gash in her eyebrow. Combs had his security guards take Cassie to go get the wound closed by a plastic surgeon, and she sent him a photo of that injury afterwards saying, here's a picture so you can remember what you did to me. And Combs' response was, you don't know when to stop. You have pushed it too far and continue to push. Bad. Isn't it true, Sydney Sumner, that after that incident,

the friendship between Cassie Ventura and the friend dwindled away because of Sean Combs? Yes, Cassie talks about how isolating this romantic relationship with Combs was because all of her friends couldn't stand to watch her stay with him and watch the continued physical abuse, psychological abuse against someone they care for. She wouldn't leave him because she loved him so much and her friends just, they couldn't stay around and watch. Baby oil. Baby oil. Will we never hear the end of baby oil in the courtroom? It's been pervasive today as well.

Lauren Conlon. It's getting crazy. I mean, the talk of baby oil, and I'm not even trying to be funny. The talk of baby oil got to a point where they had to have a sidebar. Thank goodness. Tenny Garagos objected because at one point, Emily Johnson doing a great job as the prosecutor, she's questioning Cassie and she probably questioned her for about 10 minutes about baby oil. And it got to the point where Cassie had to tell us that she, um, Combs, Sean Combs made her get into a blow up pool of baby oil and Astro Glide with all of her clothes on. And then we had to hear about how many bottles of baby oil they went through during a freak off, which by the way was 10. Uh, and she described they were the big size bottles. I mean,

there's so much more. I didn't bring my notepad out, but I mean, a lot of us are wondering, what does this have to do with anything? Are they just trying to corroborate, um, the freak offs when other witnesses come on the stand and talk about this baby oil and astro glide it's it's really really strange but i am i'm wondering when we are going to hear more about his criminal enterprise about the sex trafficking the transportation across state lines because right now cassie is giving really really testimony, and I feel awful for her. This is horrible. But it definitely is. It's seeming to me so far again, so far, it's just seeming like it is a lot of domestic violence, a lot of assaults and awfulness.

I mean, he treated her horribly, horribly, horribly. He's a vile man. I'm just trying to figure out when we're going to start really getting into these charges. I mean, right now I'm in the overflow room and people in the overflow room are kind of like, what's what's going on? What do we what are we listening to? And yeah, I mean, at another point, she asked Cassie, you know, why did you continue to participate in these freak offs or why did you say yes to a freak off? And Cassie actually under her breath was like, good question. But she broke down crying on the stands and it was awful. It was so awful. She, you know, she just talked about

how much she loved Sean Combs and how, you know, she did these freak offs so she could be with him. And that is just really sad. Well, I appreciate your perspective, but let's go to trial lawyer, Nima Romani, joining us out of LA, former federal prosecutor, turned trial lawyer, president of West Coast Trial Lawyers and author of Harvard to hashtag NEMA, what a lay person sees, they don't understand necessarily that what is happening right now is proving sex trafficking and RICO. Normally we say, which are the most serious charges that Combs is facing. RICO, which is racketeering. We normally see that applied to the mob, right?

A criminal enterprise. Like they have a vast criminal enterprise involving stolen goods, prostitution, a counterfeit money laundering, even murder. And there are many, I mean, we've all seen Sopranos,

right? That was a criminal enterprise where more than one person, multiple people work to advance. Let's just pretend Tony Soprano's criminal enterprise, right? He was the boss. It was his enterprise and all those people worked for him. So what we're hearing, I know we've said it a million times, baby oil, really baby oil to be used in an illegal act, which is flying in escorts, male and female from other cities, buzzword flying interstate commerce, uh, using texts, using online to find the escorts, wired transmission. See where I'm going with this? Who went to get the baby oil? Who paid for it? Who paid the sex workers? Who set up the scene

for illegal freak offs? All of that equals prostitution equals moving people across state lines for purposes of prostitution. That is a criminal enterprise. That's the point. The jury may not be getting it yet, but when Emily Johnson explains what the law is and says, this is transporting across state lines, this person worked for Sean Combs. This person paid the sex workers. This person bought the baby oil I mean what did Sean Combs get a blow-up pool himself and blow it up and pour in heated baby oil

h-e-l-l-n-o he paid somebody to do that hence criminal enterprise you explain Nancy, you're absolutely right. And as prosecutors, former prosecutors, we know these are the elements of the crime. Let's just go through them. Sex trafficking, you need that force, fraud, or coercion. The force, right? Beating Cassie, throwing her against the bed, that gash. We're going to have independent witnesses,

the plastic surgeon, members of his security team that are going to testify to that. The coercion, giving Cassie drugs. I just heard you say plastic surgeon, members of his security team, they're going to testify to that. The coercion, giving Cassie drugs. I just heard you say plastic surgeon. What? The plastic surgeon that Cassie went to see to fix the gash in her eye. There's going to be medical records, Nancy. Independent evidence to support her allegations.

That's what you want if you're the government. Let's talk about the coercion. When you hear Lauren Collin talking, Nima Rahmani, when you hear her talk, she's like, I'm sick of baby oil. We're all looking at each other thinking, when are we really going to hear the evidence about sex trafficking? You are hearing it right now. Break it down, Nima. This is it. This is sex trafficking. You give someone drugs so much that they throw up and they're forced to perform sex over a matter of days, sometimes up to four days, that is coercion, Lauren. And I love Lauren. You urinate in someone's mouth. That is coercion. You force someone to have sex on her period when she's bleeding all over the

bedsheet. That is coercion. It's not just about the baby. It's not just about the vomit. It's not just about the urine and the blood. No human being could consent to this. The defense's argument is consent. This is what the government is proving. And like you said, wait a minute, wait a minute. Nima Romani, when you say, and I don't want to go too DEFCON 4 on the law here, but when you say sex with Cassie Ventura without her consent, that's rape. But I'm not proving a rape case right now. I'm talking about the state proving RICO, a criminal conspiracy, a criminal enterprise. And what the jury is hearing right now, as a matter of fact, Sidney Sumner, it's so upsetting what they're seeing, these videos, that they've had to put up privacy monitors in the last hours in court. So everybody doesn't see the videos that the jury is seeing.

Isn't that true, Cindy? That is true, Nancy. We expect the prosecutors to play some of these freak off tapes for the jury in the next hours. They already tried to play them, but there were some technical difficulties. So they decided to try and work on those and continue with a different line of questioning. So those videos are going to come up in court very, very soon. We see that reporters are scrambling to actually get a seat in the courtroom instead of the overflow room so they can watch the jury as these videos are played. The gall are trying to use the Bible, the Holy Bible, as a prop.

There was only one God in Diddy's world, and that was Diddy. Even Satan quoted scripture in the Bible, and at the end of the day, he was still the devil. Cassie Ventura still on the witness stand at the end of the day. The testimony and video so upsetting that privacy monitors have been put up to shield cameras and journalists, everyone out of the audience from seeing what the jury is seeing. Okay. Joining me at the courthouse is Lauren Conlon, also with us on the trial from the get go, Sydney Sumner. NEMA. What I'm trying to tell you is that while Lauren Conlon points out that everybody in the overflow room, all the journalists are saying,

well, when are we going to be done with baby oil? When are we going to talk about sex trafficking? We're talking about sex trafficking right now. Cassie Ventura doesn't have to say people were sex trafficked. There was a conspiracy. This is a RICO case. We don't expect that.

We expect the prosecutor to take the evidence from the witness stand, explain the law to the jury and explain why what they're hearing, if they believe Cassie Ventura, equals sex trafficking and racketeering charges. Okay, listen to this. Cassie says Combs wanted her glistening at all times and had her reapply heated baby oil as often as every five minutes and during one performance even made her get into a kiddie pool of baby oil. Afterwards, staff members were charged with cleaning up, but with baby oil and bodily fluids all over the floors, walls, and door handles, Combs was frequently charged for damages to hotel rooms, negotiations handled by Combs' assistants. Okay, you know, I want to fight with Nima Romani right now about sex trafficking,

but I can't ignore that. Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst. I don't know what you're smiling about, Romani, but that's a whole nother can of worms. Dr. Marshall, a psychoanalyst out of LA, author of Deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock and find her at drbethanymarshall.com. Dr. Bethany, just forcing Cassie Ventura to engage in freak offs during her period, forcing her out of a shower where she's having cold water sprayed on her after going down a G-hole from GHB and saying, OK, you're ready. Get back in there. It's like putting a boxer who's bleeding from the face and all two big black eyes cut open and pushing him back in the ring. Now we hear about a kiddie pool, a blown up kiddie pool full of warm baby oil that

Cassie Ventura had to get into. What woman on this jury is going to think any of that is consensual? It's not consensual, Nancy. And what you're pointing out is correct, is that this is not simply just a domestic violence case. Two people who are romantically connected, yet they're maybe one partner gets jealous or possessive. He is sex trafficking her. He takes away her shoes, takes away her purse, uses threats and intimidation to have control over her. This is absolutely sex trafficking. In terms of that baby oil, I think it's fascinating. If he can only achieve arousal and ejaculate when looking at somebody with baby oil on, then that technically would fit under the category of a perversion. But I think he has multiple perversions. What I really think is going on is that somehow baby oil has become associated with experiences

of arousal, which made me wonder, like, what were his early experiences in life? I mean, how long has he been using baby oil? Was baby oil used as a part of a masturbatory ritual starting when he was really young? Did his mother use baby oil when he was an infant and somehow that got eroticized or sexualized? I mean, this is so fascinating to me as a clinician because there's all kinds of meanings underneath this. You know, I'm glad you're the shrink and not me because I'm not really fascinated by a woman on her period being forced to engage in a freak off with a group of sex partners, male escorts that have been flown in from out of state.

I'm not really fascinated with that, but I do, I do want justice. This is like a cornucopia. It's a Freudian freak show. I don't even know what all of this means. And you know what, Dr. Bethany, no offense to you, but I don't care what it means psychologically. I care if I or the prosecutor can prove the case. And what out of Cassie Ventura's testimony proves sex trafficking and RICO? That's racketeering charges usually reserved for the mob. Okay,

so how are they going to prove it? Listen. Prosecutor Emily Johnson briefly pauses Cassie's narrative testimony to make a point. Whose decision was it to have freak offs? Whose decision was it to involve baby oil? Whose decision was it to use male sex workers? Whose decision was it to pour Cassie's answer remained the same. Sean's. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Prosecutor Emily Johnson briefly pauses Cassie's narrative testimony to make a point. Whose decision was it to have freak offs? Whose decision was it to involve baby oil?

Whose decision was it to use male sex workers? Whose decision was it to pour hot wax on your body? Cassie's answer remained the same. Sean's. That is pointing to Nima Rahmani, the head of the organization. If Sean Combs is only convicted of a rape, that's going to be a cakewalk for him.

He'll get that. He'll get at least two-thirds of his time knocked off. He'll be out in five years, okay? The feds want the prize of racketeering and sex trafficking. Listen. Cassie mentioned staff would set up Combs Hotel rooms for freak-offs, prepping rooms with baby oil, lighting, and other requests. Specifically, security guards Roger Bonds, Uncle Polly, Fahim, Malik, and D-Rock as being sent to track her down or ordered to take her belongings. Cassie also says bad boy exec Tony Fletcher handled her

finances for several years, and Christina Corum discussed many personal details with her. Tom Smith joining me, former NYPD detective, 30 years in narcotics robbery gang. Also with the FBI NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force. He is the co-host of Gold Shields podcast. Tom, thank you for being with us. Okay. Did you hear all those people that are helping Sean Combs affect the free coughs from buying baby oil, lighting, prepping the rooms, security guards, Roger Bonds, Uncle Polly, Fahim, Malik, D-Rock, sent to track down Cassie Ventura or take her belongings if she doesn't show up to a freak off. You've got someone handling her finances for Sean Combs and you have the hitch person, Christina Corum, who denies any involvement. Also in the mix.

All right. That's what we call, Tom Smith, co-conspirators. Explain. Yes, and you're exactly right. And when you begin any investigation, especially this one, Nancy, who's the boss? That is what every detective and every prosecutor is going to look at when you're dealing with a RICO case. Who is dictating? Who does what? Who's orchestrating it? Who's coordinating the sex trafficking acts that are going on,

the freaks off and everything? That's what is important here. And that's what's going to come out in this trial. It's just a buildup. It's like building a house. A couple of first days are the foundation, then it's going to go. And all this is going to be laid out in court, his trial. It's just a buildup. It's like building a house. A couple of first days of the foundation, then it's going to go. And all this is going to be laid out in court about Sean Combs coordinating every single thing that happened with these people, with these acts. Prosecutor Emily Johnson briefly pauses Cassie's narrative testimony to make a point. Whose decision was it to have freak offs? Whose decision was it to involve baby point. Whose decision was it to have freak offs? Whose decision was it to involve baby oil? Whose decision was it to use male sex workers? Whose decision was

it to pour hot wax on your body? Cassie's answer remained the same. Sean's. We are live at the federal courthouse in Manhattan. Sean Combs, a.k.a. Puffy, a.k.a. Puff, a.k.a. Puff Daddy, a.k.a. Love, a.k.a. Diddy. And the list goes on. On trial in a multi-count federal indictment, including some of the most serious charges that can be leveled by the federal government, including racketeering, RICO, R-I-C-O, transportation to engage in prostitution, two count sex trafficking. We are learning from Cassie Ventura's testimony throughout the day that Combs would become volatile, angry when she would be drugged in order to perform the freak offs. Joining us live, Sydney Sumner. Sydney, explain what Cassie had to say about why she would get numbed on drugs.

Nancy, Cassie said that she could not get through those freak-offs without being on some kind of drug so that she didn't have to fully understand what was happening around her. Cassie said she used the drugs to dissociate. Now we know that Combs hated this. Evidenced by text messages in between the couple, Combs told her that he wanted to do freak-offs without the ketamine. Cassie said that was almost her drug of choice almost every time because she said it was the most dissociative of the things that she took. But she also mentioned things like marijuana, mushrooms and more. Opioids were

another big choice. Ventura says she was almost addicted to opioids because of how frequently she used them to get through these freak offs. But we see text messages between them with Combs berating Cassie for using drugs during the freak-offs. He said they don't count if she doesn't remember them. Oh, my stars. So the freak-offs don't count if she doesn't remember them? Sidney Sumner, didn't we hear Cassie earlier today state that she had so many urinary tract infections from the free coughs that she had to get super powerful antibiotics because the regular antibiotics for UTIs no longer worked for her.

Yes, we heard that from Cassie as well. She said that the UTIs were frequent and she was forced to perform in the free coughs anyway. She said it was incredibly painful and just continued to make the UTI, the infection, even worse. She says that the usual antibiotic prescribed for UTI patients stopped working for her. She became resistant to that antibiotic and had to be moved on to stronger and stronger drugs. The testimony, gut-wrenching and emotional. And at one point earlier today, Ventura is shown a series of photos. Now, as odious as the photos may be, the point of the photos is to show legally that this is a criminal enterprise. It's not just Sean Combs raping or sodomizing or directing someone else to rape or sodomize Cassie Ventura. There are other people involved. Why is that

significant? That is required to prove a RICO case. To Lauren Cullen, I understand you're not happy with all the baby oil testimony, but what more can you tell me about Cassie Ventura's testimony on the stand? Before you answer that question, I want you to hear this. She was tasked with finding escorts for the Freak Offs, but Combs always demanded to approve them. She typically handed the escorts their cash, but the money came from Combs, the cash delivered by staff members. Combs always double-checked that Cassie had verified the escorts weren't undercover cops, and that's when it hit her that the situation was not legal.

Mail escorts she procured online participated in freak-offs in several states. The company travel agents arranged flights and transportation. Cassie says she would tell the travel agent she needed to arrange a new employee's transportation to avoid too many questions. Calling the sex workers new employees to avoid the appearance of impropriety, obviously illegal to transport sex workers across state lines for the purposes of prostitution. These people were paid to have sex paid by Sean Combs. The key words in her testimony online, which is wire transactions, which is federal offense if it's illegal, participated in freak offs in multiple states. Cassie Ventura became concerned that what was happening was illegal. Back to you, Lauren Conlon. Now that you've heard that, I want to point out that the different escorts were in the photos that Cassie

was shown today. What we saw from Cassie on the stand was so emotional and also so eye-opening. Cassie was shown multiple photos of different escorts that she and Diddy allegedly used in their freak-offs, and Cassie had to identify them by name and then speak about how these escorts traveled with she and Diddy for freak-offs to different locations. Different locations. Different locations, hiring escorts from other state, even booking travel.

Is that right, Lauren Conlon? Now, she went through who arranged what travel, and she actually mentioned that at one point, a travel agent booked the travel of an escort, and they told the travel agent that this escort was an employee of Diddy's so they wouldn't ask questions. To Nima Romani, the buzzwords that are going to be reiterated to the jury in closing arguments across state lines, online, paying them, you're orchestrating a criminal enterprise. because see, that's what Garagos has been screaming from the get go. Yes, he's a bad boyfriend. Uh, yes, he may have coerced Cassie Ventura into sex translation rape, but that does not make a sex trafficking case. OK, another chance to Nima Romani.

What are they doing with Cassie's testimony here? Well, when it comes to Rico, we're talking about a criminal enterprise and that has to be a loose association of two or more people. Doesn't have to be the mob. Doesn't have to be the cartel. Doesn't have to be a street gang. We saw it in the R. Kelly case. Diddy's entourage is enough. And then you need those two or more RICO predicate acts. Assault, right? It's not a federal offense, but it's a RICO predicate act. Can I please state that in simple words? You said predicate acts. Okay. It can't just be people palling around. Okay. There has to be an overt act.

There has to be a crime associated with the friendship, the criminal enterprise. In this case, the predicate act would be rape or sodomy or paying sex workers. Right. So there's your crime. And then you have to have the association that is furthering the crime. Does that make sense, Nima? Of course, you need a pattern of racketeering activity.

But all that is, is two crimes within a 10 year period. That's all you need for RICO. And like you said, Nancy, some of these are state crimes, but they can become federal crimes if there's an interstate component. So the prostitution across state lines, if there's money involved, that's the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. So you need a federal hook to make some of these crimes federal crimes. We're obviously in federal court. So when it's the sex trafficking, the prostitution,

the RICO, there has to be that federal element. And that's what we're talking about all this. So while a lot of this testimony is graphic and disturbing, for instance, Lauren Collin was just accurately reporting that earlier today, Cassie Ventura was shown pictures of male escorts. Right. We learned from her testimony and Sidney Sumner, correct me if I'm wrong. We learned from her testimony that she would be asked to go online, find the male escorts. Then she would have to show the photos to Sean Combs. He would actually approve which men were transported to the location. Is that right, Sidney Sumner?

Absolutely, Nancy. That's correct. And Nima Romani, I keep reiterating this for a reason. Let me see Nima. Nima, the state, if they just get a rape conviction, that's a conviction, a titular conviction at best,

a nominal conviction. They're going for the prize. They want Sean Combs behind bars for for life the only way that's going to happen is if they get a conviction on sex trafficking or rico racketeering criminal enterprise they're going for the prize here and if cassie is to be believed and and I think she is, they've done it. I believe it. And look, prostitution, you're right, Nancy, this would be a loss for the government, a pretty tremendous one. The RICO and sex trafficking, those have the serious penalties. RICO is a potential life sentence. Sex trafficking with force, Nancy, that's a 15-year mandatory

minimum sentence up to life. That's why you see them focus on those counts and not so much the prostitution. That's just the throw in. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. His eyes went black and the person that she loved was no longer there. Cassie says afterward she was still very numb from the drugs but felt dirty and confused. Cassie didn't want to make Combs angry by telling him she didn't like it. The freak-offs quickly became a weekly event with the actual escapade lasting roughly two to three days with no sleep and the recovery taking just as long. She quickly determined she no longer wanted to participate in the freak offs,

especially with how regular they became, but didn't know how to refuse combs. Quote, It got to the point where I just didn't feel like I had much of a choice. Didn't really know what no could be or what no could turn into. Ventura says she didn't know if Combs would be violent or follow through on threats to release the recordings of the encounters. So far, he's just sounding like a pimp. But when you analyze the testimony, there is sex trafficking, a sex trafficking case and a RICO case being made out. Joining me now, Rachel Fisher is with us, anti-trafficking expert featured in the 2022 documentary, Surviving Sex Trafficking. She is a forensic nurse, a sex assault nurse examiner. You can find her at LegalRNConsult.org. Rachel, I was working up to you. You heard about the beatings. You heard about the urinary

tract infections, the being forced to perform during her period. But also we learn, Rachel, that Cassie testified, I think it was right after the lunch break today, but Cassie testified that when she wouldn't pick her phone up, Combs would call over and over and over again. If she still didn't pick up, he would send his hench people to get her. He would take away her possessions as punishment, like her car. He would take away her phone, her laptop, and her jewelry until he thought she should get them back. Okay, explain. This is a very common tactic that traffickers use with their victims in that element of control, that force, fraud, and coercion. Coercion being making something fair seeming that isn't and using that fear of reputational harm, manipulation,

not being able to have access to the phone to call the outside world, using an enforcer, another person to be able to hold her accountable. So that's again, engaging another person to hold her to it. And then the engaging in commercial sex acts. So the prostitution word has been said, but forcing someone to engage in commercial sex acts as part the prostitution word has been said, but forcing someone to engage in commercial sex acts as part of that in trafficking and the performing labor for sexual gratification or perform sex acts for his gratification. Her not being able to have a choice in it because she could be hurt by either him or his staff acting in that enterprise. So there was that constant fear. And we see that all the time is if I don't do this, or if I don't follow his commands, there will be

repercussions as she's talked about all the things that have happened and they're going to happen again. And that's that fear that they constantly live under. And, you know, Rachel Fisher, a lot has been made. We heard Lauren Cullen talking about why do we keep hearing about baby oil? She was directed. You have to be, quote, glistening. And all of the sex workers, everybody involved in the video free cough hotel rooms would be damaged and Combs would have to pay to get the hotel rooms professionally cleaned and repaired after free coughs. But we also learned, Rachel Fisher, I'd like to hear your opinion on this because this is so serious that if she did not comply, yes, he had given her two different places to live. One was in New York and LA. She moved there because he wanted her to be close to him. But if she displeased him in any way, he would take the keys and physically kick her out. And you heard earlier being kicked out at

the Cannes Film Festival with no shoes, left to wander the streets with no shoes, no ID, no credit cards, no anything. Explain that, interpret that for us. That's that power and control dynamic. That's present domestic violence that we see also in the sex trafficking realm is they use that power and control over their victims to have them engage in commercial sex acts. That's where we get that trafficking overlap with domestic violence. And you see the, you know, the passport being withheld, not able to have a place to live, the basic needs, those are vulnerabilities that they target. And so they exploit just as he did to her, he exploited those vulnerabilities and use them as that coercion of if you don't do this, these are the repercussions.

So that's controlling a person through withholding food, basic necessities, not allowing them to talk to family and using physical harm or restraint against her as the victim. So there was a lot of that present throughout. Sydney Sumner with us, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Cassie Ventura later in the day read a series of texts. What was the significance? room on March 5th, 2016, because she had a movie premiere and she was so worried that Combs would make her face damaged ahead of her movie premiere that she finally decided, you know what? No, I'm not going back in that room. I'm calling security. I'm leaving. So she manages to escape that hotel room and Combs sends her text messages over and over begging her to come back because he claims the cops are showing up. He's surrounded. Please, I've got six kids.

Don't do this to me. Don't take me down for this. I just couldn't imagine what was going through her mind reading those text messages after she already denied the security guard's offer to call police. Later that day, a friend didn't consult her before calling police. And when an officer showed up at her door, she refused to cooperate. She was never planning on sending Sean Combs down, but she wanted to look presentable for her movie premiere. And he's begging her to come back, asking her to consider his children after he beat her. Sydney, when we look at the hotel video from the Intercontinental, there have been a lot of reports of why she's trying to leave. What is her testimony?

And this was slowed down and played frame by frame for the jury. Why was she leaving the hotel room? So Cassie says that against her better judgment, she agreed to a freak off on March 5th at Combs' request, despite the fact that she had her first big movie premiere coming up. March 7th, the perfect match that she starred in was premiering, and she was walking the red carpet, and she didn't want to compromise her appearance. She was worried that during this freak-off, she would get hit or punched or kicked, and she would have bruises on her face for her premiere. So against her better judgment, she agreed to this freak off, and just a few minutes in, Combs did exactly what she feared. He hit her in the face, she had a bruise forming over her eye,

and she said, you know what, no, I'm not doing this, I can't risk this anymore, I have to be able to go to my premiere in two days. So she grabs her belongings while Combs is in the shower and sneaks out of the room. We watch as she puts her shoes on. She didn't even put shoes on before she left the hotel room because she was trying to get out without alerting Combs. And that's when he catches her in the hallway, trying to go down the elevator, tries to drag her back into the room, and she sticks to her guns and she calls security. So that's what Cassie says happened. We haven't seen anything about what the defense is claiming. That video from our friends at CNN, Dr. Bethany Marshall, what Mark Geragos told me,

his daughter Tenny is one of the lead counsels on Combs' defense. Yeah. That wasn't a freak off at all happening in that room. There was an argument where Cassie became angry because Combs got a text from another woman. And that's why she was leaving. But that's not what she says. You know, and, you know, when you know Garagos, he's so affable and likable. But he has a job. And his job is to get Combs off or whoever his client is at the moment. Those are highly divergent versions about why she was trying to get away. You know,

I think what was really happening, Nancy, is that she had this premiere coming up and if he locked her into one of these freak offs, then he could maim her, hurt her, restrain her, control her. He was trying to put her in an impaired position so she couldn't get to the premier. This is classic. This is sex trafficking 101. Separate the victim from anybody who could support them or anybody they could report the crime to. We wait as justice unfolds. And remember, an American hero, Trooper Frankie Williams, New Jersey State Police, just 31, struck and killed in the line of duty. Leaves behind wife, Kimberly, parents, Victoria and Robert.

American hero, Trooper Frankie Williams. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.