Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Diddy's 'Tootsie Roll' Revealed, Cassie Cross-Exam

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Casandra “Cassie” Ventura, the government’s star witness, took the stand today for the first day of cross-examination and faced questioning by Sean "Diddy" Combs’ $10 million defense team.  She previously spent two days detailing the alleged physical, emotional, and sexual abuse she says she endured during her decade-long relationship with the disgraced rap mogul. At the center of Combs’ defense today was the claim that Ventura was never coerced into participating in "freak offs," as she testified earlier. The defense pointed to text messages, including one Ventura sent to Combs in 2009 that read, “I’m always ready to freak off lolol.” Ventura remained composed and held her ground when confronted with the explicit messages. She testified that she eventually began to feel Combs was exploiting her. Combs’ defense team is expected to continue cross-examining Ventura through Friday morning. Follow Crime Stories with Nancy Grace for the latest testimony in rap mogul Sean "Diddy" Combs' sex-trafficking trial Joining Nancy Grace today: Greg Morse - Criminal Defense Attorney of Morse Legal, author of “The Untested” found on Amazon; website: morselegal.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author of "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away,” and featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive Chris McDonough - Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective [worked over 300 homicides in 25-year career and trained the first Native American Homicide Task Force] Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room." Lynn Shaw - Founder and Executive Director of Lynn's Warriors - an organization committed to ending human trafficking and sexual exploitation,  Host of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube,; X: @lynns_warriors Youtube: @LynnsWarriors  Rob Shuter - Host: Naughty But Nice Podcast, Former Publicist of Sean Combs, and Author: "The 4 Word Answer", radaronline.com; IG: @naughtygossip   Lauren Conlin- Investigative Journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast, and also Host of "Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon; X- @Conlin_Lauren/ Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin/YouTube- @LaurenConlin4 Sydney Sumner - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sean Combs did his tootsie roll, revealed as Cassie Ventura on cross-examination all day. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Black eyes, fat lips, mouth sores, many UTIs. She was expected to go through with these freak offs. And I think many of us watching here all feel the same way. I mean, justice for Cassie, Nancy. Joining us at the courthouse, having sat through testimony all day, investigative reporter, co-host, Pop Crime TV, Lauren Conlon. Lauren, thank you for being with us. from Cassie on cross-exam was where Sean Combs' Diddy actually claims that hotel beatdown of Cassie

Ventura hurt his career. That's their takeaway from him beating her to an inch of her life that, hey, didn't you know this was going to ruin his career? Seriously? Yes. The defense kind of honed in on the fact of her lawsuit as well. Her 2023 lawsuit. They asked her on the stand. Well, what do you think happened to Sean Combs's career after you filed this lawsuit? There were some objections, but initially Cassie had to testify that, yeah, it didn't help. But that was a pretty incredible moment, Nancy. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You help. But that was a pretty incredible moment, Nancy. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.

You mean the state did not stand up that moment and object? They let her start answering? What's wrong with them? Well, they objected, and then the defense had to rephrase the question a few times. And it seems like that's happening a lot here. It's state of mind versus truth. That seems to be the theme. So there are a lot of objections, a lot of sidebars over this evidence, specifically the evidence of text messages and emails. Oh, my stars.

In just a moment, I'm going to go to high profile lawyer Greg Morse, because if you want to be a trial lawyer, you've got to be like a gunslinger in the wild west and have split second timing because you have to object the minute that question comes out of the other side's mouth before your witness can answer. That's the whole point. You don't let the answer start and let the question sink into the jury. No. Oh, they're slow on the draw. Okay. Give me the highlights of what's happening with Cassie Ventura on the stand. Yes. Cassie Ventura during cross-examination, I feel like the defense is being gentle. She's being cross-examined by one of Diddy's attorneys, Anna Estavella. And when I say that she's being gentle, they actually are sharing a few laughs on the stand when Cassie saw a 2007 email that she wrote Diddy. But essentially what we're seeing are emails of Cassie saying that she would do a freak off at any point with him.

And these emails are coming in about two and a half years after their relationship. There's also talk about how she would, quote, travel anywhere for him, do anything for him. Again, about two years into their relationship when she testified during direct that she was being abused during this time and she didn't want to do freak offs. Additionally, during direct, she testified that she would be forced to do these freak-offs during her period. Well, the defense showed us text messages today about Diddy asking her about when her period was for the purpose of FO planning. Additionally, they are showing pictures of Cassie texting Diddy getting off jets after an FO weekend saying, I had a great time. Hold on, back it up just a minute. Lauren Cullen joining me from the courthouse.

So there were texts shown to the jury where Sean Combs, defendant Sean Combs, asked Lauren, asked Cassie about her period as it relates to planning free coughs. At any point in those texts, did he, Sean Combs say, oh, okay, we won't have a freak off that week did that happen she did not say no we won't have a freak off but Cassie's response was that she was going to miss her period that month okay so I'm curious about what the state's going to do with that because they left it hanging he's not offering not to have a freak off during her period. How do I know he didn't plan the freak off specifically because she was having a period? I don't know. After all I've heard, that's possible. Okay. Back to you, Lauren. What else happened? So I want to tell you also what seems to be relevant for the defense or

what they're trying to prove is Sean Combs is alleged opioid addiction. They are asking Cassie, did you think or did you know he was addicted to opioids? And she said, yes, he told me. And then they go on to say, well, don't you think that, you know, when he was coming down from opioids or when he was withdrawing, he was a bit more volatile. In my opinion, they are really pushing this that, that you know when he was withdrawing from drugs that's when he was violent and that's why he was violent okay what i guess they're forgetting with all that legal power on the defense team is that drugs and alcohol voluntary use with drugs

for alcohol are never a defense okay back to what she is saying on the stand. Tell me how she's looked on the stand so far on cross-examination. Well, like I said, she shared some laughs with Anna Estevea and she does appear relaxed and she's handling it so well. I mean, again, she's eight and a half months pregnant and you know, she's, she's very calm very calm her demeanor is is poised and Anna Estevea has even said to Cassie look because again Nancy we have heard and seen some very explicit text messages and emails from Diddy and Cassie to each other and Estevea is saying look if you don't want to read these you don't have to and nancy they are very graphic we are hearing a lot that maybe i i did not need to hear additionally cassie is showing that she is being

open and honest with her communication with diddy sending him paragraphs about how she feels about freak offs but in this particular paragraph or email, she's saying, look, I don't know if I want to do it because I feel like that's all I'm good for. So the defense is showing us that, hey, Cassie, you were open and honest with Diddy. But, you know, you're saying that you couldn't be at a certain point. So it's you know, again, it's early and I feel like the cross-examination is going to last about two days. Now, I understand that Combs' lawyer is seemingly suggesting that the freak-offs that he kind of forced her to participate in were simply part of a swinger lifestyle is very different than forcing her to be in free calls practically every week of their multi-year relationship. Yes, and Cassie testified yesterday also that she didn't want to be a swinger because she didn't really want to see Holmes with another woman. However, today we saw a message exchanged from Cassie to Diddy where she said that she wants to see him with another woman as part of this fantasy.

And I'm paraphrasing, but I think a lot of us were like, oh, OK, that's that's not great. And we're actually we're seeing a lot of that, a lot of contradictions with the period, with the talk of another woman. And I believe that they are showing pictures of Cassie and Diddy getting off airplanes after freak-off weekends to negate the trafficking charges. Okay. You know, a close look at the law will negate that premise they're trying to advance. But I'm really curious about the freak-s and about them pressing Cassie Ventura on the stand on cross-examination about the lawsuit as if the lawsuit was all her fault, that there was no basis to the lawsuit. How did Cassie Ventura hold up when they were grilling her about the lawsuit, the $20 million lawsuit? Like I said, she was great. She seemed unfazed,

unaffected, poised. And she, you know, she admitted after Estivella had to rephrase the question a few times that, yeah, the lawsuit that she filed did not help his career. And isn't it true, Lauren Collin, that in one email they presented to her on cross-examination, she was very, very young and she was describing how grateful she was to Sean Combs helping her get a leg up in the music industry. And she started laughing. She goes, yeah, I was really young then. Yes, absolutely. But she also pointed out that during the time that she met Sean Combs, she had her own money.

She was successful in her own right with modeling. And he was dating a man named Ryan Leslie, who was a music producer who helped her out a lot. And he was actually the one that introduced her to Diddy. Now, the defense, you know, they made a point to say, well, Miss Ventura, wasn't Ryan Leslie 10 years older than you? Because Cassie did say on the stand numerous times, Sean Palms is 17 years older than her. She alluded to the fact that she was taken advantage of. So yeah, they had to point out, well, you've dated older men before.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace in addition to lauren conlon joining us at the courthouse and sydney sumner also covering the trial straight out to dr bethany marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst out of la author of deal breakers you can see her on peacock now and find her at drbethanymarshall.com. Bethany Marshall, having worked with battered women for decades, including on the hotline at the battered women's center and representing them in court, once the case turned into a felony, very often female victims are full of contradictions. For instance, they try to go along with what the abuser wants them to do. They play along. They don't tell their friends or their family they're getting beaten or abused. They act like they are amenable to much of the abuse, but there are reasons for that, and it's really hard to understand it.

Explain. Well, what I hear in the testimony this morning is that there's a young girl who's very, very much in love with the perpetrator and she believes this is a real love relationship. So she's trying to hang on to the love. She doesn't realize she's being sex trafficked and that at first she doesn't. So all of his malevolence, his antagonism, his abuse really makes her double down and want his love even more. And research shows that the more tenuous an attachment is, the more the woman will try to hold on to the love object. So I hear her just placating him and fending off abuse and trying to make sure that she's in his good graces because she's harboring the illusion that she might be important to him someday. Joining me in addition to Dr.

Bethany Marshall, special guest Rob Shooter, host of Naughty But Nice podcast, former publicist to Sean Combs and author of The Four Word Answer. You know him very well and saw many of his mood swings. And that's certainly euphemistic, putting perfume on the pig there. Did you ever see the bad side of Diddy? I saw the bad side of Diddy. I saw a grumpy and angry, aggressive side of Diddy. I didn't see a side of Diddy that I'm seeing right now, though, in this trial. It's horrifying, the details,

the texts, the intimate conversations. But I did see, let me say, Nancy, I saw a really good side of Diddy. And that's what makes this so complicated for everybody involved. He's arguably one of the most charming people I have ever met. He can turn it on. He can play the game. And that's why people like Cassie was under his spell for so long. You know what, Rob Sheeter, you know what you just reminded me of? When I was working the hotline on the battered women's center, we had a frequent caller and I'm not going to say what jurisdiction from where she was calling, but guess who her husband was? The mayor, the mayor, gregarious, charming. Many people thought he was good looking. I didn't, but we heard it over and over and over. Right? So just

because you see a charming side and the world sees a charming side does not mean that he's actually charming. You know, help me verbalize this, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Okay. So if you look at the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders under Sociopathy. Please don't say things like that. The Diagnostic Statistic, what? Break it down, woman. Okay, the criteria for sociopathy, one of the criteria is that the individual has a thin veneer of affability and sociability that hides a cold, calculated interior. So they are very charming

as long as they're getting their way and the minute somebody crosses them or fails to gratify them, they become vicious. You know, I was analyzing what she was saying on the stand today. Cassie Ventura on cross-examination throughout the day and it ain't over yet. She talks about unpredictable behavior of Sean Combs, how he would hit her for simply making the quote wrong face or quote talking back to him. Okay. That's weird. Like he's her grandpa. And as a matter of fact, he asked her what was her nickname for her grandpa.

And she said, pop, pop. And then he insisted she call him by her grandfather's name. Okay. You know what? Sadly, Sigmund Freud is dead. He's not here to analyze that weirdness, but going forward, Cassie Ventura has broken down on the stand as she described how he would quote, become a different person that his eyes would just quote, go black. And that quote, the version I was in love with no longer there there. The duality of combs. Shooter, is it that hard for you to believe what she's saying? No, I believe every word that she's saying, but I also to understand why she stayed with him. And this is what his lawyers did. His lawyers. Oh my God. Haven't you heard the shrink explain why battered women stay in it?

But you know what? I got to hand it to you, Shooter. Knowing what I know, having been trained in it, trying cases about it, I sometimes look at the woman and think, couldn't you just leave? But it's so much more complicated, Rob. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And let's hope the jury understands this, Nancy.

You might understand it. I might understand it.. You might understand it. I might understand it. Your audience might understand it. But all that matters are those 12 people sitting there. And the reason Diddy's lawyers are doing this, it works, Nancy. It really does work. If they can put some sort of shred of doubt into their mind about she stayed for money or he did a lot for her or is she really telling the truth? If they can do that, he might get off.

She would be drugged in order to perform the freak-offs. We are learning about what a vile human Diddy is as if we didn't already know. She did break down on the stand a few times. It is heartbreaking and just painful to listen to. Vile, yes, but he's not here trying to be crowned. Miss Congeniality. OK, this is a felony multi-count indictment by the feds. And I'm wondering straight out to a veteran trial lawyer, Greg Morse, joining me out of Palm Beach, criminal defense attorney of Morse Legal and author of The Untested on Amazon. Morse, joining me out of Palm Beach, criminal defense attorney of Morse Legal and author of The Untested on Amazon.

Morse, I'm thinking about the actual charges here. And he's not charged with domestic abuse. And I'm wondering, I'm just wondering if part of that is by plan. You just heard Rob Sheeter, right? An everyman that actually knows Sean Combs. If the jury is left thinking, wow, did she stay in that willingly? Was that her decision to endure all that? Even though we see with our own eyes, her being beaten and dragged back to a freak off

she's trying to get away from those issues could linger. But what they're going for the gold, the gold, right, is the sex trafficking and the RICO charges, because those charges are the meat of this indictment. Sean Combs was in a loose group called a confederation, a loose group with other people that planned and executed illegal activities. That illegal activity could be as simple as transporting sex workers across state lines for a freak off. It could be paying them for illegal activity. Any of that would support the RICO claim. I want you to analyze the charges because as emotional as the testimony is, as disgusting as the freak-off video is,

some of the jurors were actually like doing this looking away. They can hardly look at it. One guy held his hand up to his head as he was watching a free call video. It's so bad that the monitor, they have individual monitors like you have on an airplane, right? An individual monitor. So nobody out in the audience or certainly not the press can see what's on the screen. And there are privacy screens covering those individual monitors for the jury because it's that disgusting. It's that debasing to Cassie Ventura. It's that bad. Question is, can they prove the sex trafficking? Can they prove the RICO? Well, I mean, RICO is used because it makes the government's job easy. That's why they use it. You're responsible for other people's actions.

That's why the conspiracy is there. Sounds like I've got sour grapes. I asked, can they prove it? No, no sour grapes. Not at all. It's never easy when you're sitting across a courtroom full of $10 million lawyers. That's never easy. You're being trite and I don't like it.

No, not being trite. But what you have here is a domestic violence situation that the federal government bootstrapped into this ridiculous sex trafficking case it is very easy for them to prove because if you have one person talks about um cassie wanting to go to atlanta there's your interstate right there so it's a very easy element that's already been proven this morning however so if you have prostitutes that are hired to come to these parties even though it's consensual, the government can prove that.

There you go. It's proven right there. But the reality of Cassie's testimony, unfortunately for this young lady, is that she wasn't happy in the relationship. She was upset. And this should be a state domestic violence situation. The battered spouse relates to the domestic violence, not the parties that she was intentionally going to. I'm actually starting to lose the respect I had for you as an adversary. You're a great defense lawyer. You're great in the courtroom. You win a lot of cases.

But to say to Lynn Shaw joining me, founder, director, Lynn's Warriors, dedicated, it's a nonprofit, to ending sex trafficking and abuse of girls and women to say, oh, you put up this young woman and she's just unhappy in the relationship. That's not what this case is about, her being unhappy. Yeah. Well, Nancy, we're witnessing right now, right now on your program, how the justice system looks at victims cassie has been groomed can't anybody understand what this is she was 19. okay so that's legally an adult but you see the years of the back and the fourth all these uh text messages and things like that this is a young woman that was groomed from the get-go They keep going back. They keep trying to, you know, make it whole. They keep trying to prove themselves to somebody.

And you know what? I am tired. We stand next to victims and survivors all the time. And the courts don't understand. Lawyers, I'm sorry, with all due respect, do not understand sex trafficking. Yes, right now we're talking about domestic violence, all this horror, but we're laying out the groundwork of grooming to lead to sex trafficking. So I'm really getting tired of everybody. It's 2025, not understanding the process of these powerful men in particular,

money, you know what? And they have the law behind them and they rip apart the victims. Dirty Diddy is going down and we're laying out for sex trafficking right here. Joining me is Sydney Sumner on the case from the very, very beginning. Monitor every single thing that's happening in the courtroom. Cassie Ventura on cross-examination. This as reports of Sean Combs' Tootsie Roll emerging from another alleged sex attack victim. What does that mean, Sydney Sumner? Well, Nancy, according to this victim, on her fourth outing with Combs, so she had met him in a hotel elevator. They had spent a few nights out together, but on their third night, she left early

with her friend without telling him, which apparently really angered Holmes. He said, I don't think you know who I am. People don't do that to me. So the next time they all met up, the situation felt sketchy from the beginning. She got into a car. There were a bunch of big men in that car. She could see used condoms on the ground, women's underwear. And they ended up back at Combs' apartment. She wanted to go home, and he said, no, I need to stop by my apartment first. You're going to come up with me. He pinned her to a bed, and as he holds his pants down to rape her word for word she says she didn't think

it would hurt as much due to his lack of length and girth so she is comparing combs penis to a tootsie roll and later in that same lawsuit she refers to him as itty bitty Diddy. Okay, Rob Shooter, testimony aside, there's really no coming back from that for Diddy. There's no way that they're coming back from that. And I would guess this is a detail. It's scandalous and we're talking about it, but this is a really important detail and it's very, very easy to be proven. Let's see. Let's see. Rob Shooter, are you crazy? No. Let's see. Let's see. Rob Shooter, are you crazy? No, let's see.

Are we talking about the same thing? You actually think the federal prosecutors are going to prove that there's an itty bitty diddy in Diddy's penis? That there's more of a tootsie roll than a cannon? Seriously? No, nobody's going to touch that with a 10-foot pole. That's not an element of proof shooter what are you talking about well if she if they can prove that she can describe diddy's penis

then that's a really important point for her to to make and so i know they did this in the michael jackson trial several witnesses described what michael jackson looked like and so i think describing what diddy looks like is very important It will prove the point and hopefully she'll win a case. OK, Shooter, you actually made a legal point. You may need to consider that whole PR thing you've got going on. Yes, that did happen in the Michael Jackson case. But I hardly think that the defense is going to broach the subject of itty bitty Diddy being in Diddy's pants. OK, that's a whole nother can of worms. And as is so

often when you're trying a case, you learn a lot more information than you ever wanted to. Now, that's kind of funny, right? Right? Itty bitty ditty, the Tootsie Roll in Diddy's pants. But hold on. Not that funny. Listen. Discussing their breakup, Combs took her to lunch and had a deep conversation that brought a sense of closure. But when Combs dropped her off at home, he pinned her down and raped her. He says she doesn't believe Combs even noticed her crying and telling him no. After ejaculating inside her, Cassie says Combs calmly got up and left. Bethany Marshall, shooter, had a little bit of a laugh about Sean Combs' tootsie roll,

but did you hear what came out on the stand with Cassie Ventura under oath? That when they had a lunch to rehash, this is why we're breaking up. He takes her back and according to her, rapes her and then gets up and walks out without a word. This is just one more iteration of what he did throughout their entire relationship. Anytime she tried to develop herself away from him or establish her own life, he would send his goonies over. He would break

into her door at the middle of the night. He would rape her. He would watch other men rape her. He would debase her. The fact that somebody has pointed out that there's a little bitty itty diddy inside of Diddy's pants, I think that's an interesting twist because he has debased so many men and women. The fact that somebody could actually debase him with reality, it sounds like he was actually not that well endowed. I think it's kind of a fair turnaround as this entire trial is. Throughout the day, alleged victim Cassie Ventura on the stand now on cross-examination by Sean Combs' $10 million defense team. By all accounts, she's holding up really well. Now, the defense is trying their best to make a lot of points, scoring points on heavily pregnant Cassie Ventura.

But can anything the defense says erase this mental picture? Roll it. Look at Cassie Ventura holding up her little left hand, trying to protect herself, cowering in the corner, holding up her hand, trying to stop Combs from beating her further. Look at that. Him walking by like he's the king of the intercontinental

as she cowers in the corner holding her head where he's already kicked her in the head and then holding up her left hand, that pitiful little left hand to try to fight him off. Immediately after that, we see still photos of where he throws a vase at her, the shattered shards on the floor. He aimed at her when he threw that. The dirt on the wall, that's what he threw at her. What if it had hit her? To Chris McDonough, joining me. Director of Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective before that in vice for many, many years.

Star of the interview room on YouTube. Chris McDonough, frankly, I don't care what they say on cross. I don't care what they try to elicit from Cassie Ventura. That video tells me that what was happening in the free coughs was not something she wanted to do. She did not want to be a part of it. And she was trying to get away from one when he came out, beat her and her holding up a little hand, trying to fight him off and literally drag her back. Absolutely, Nancy. I mean, that video in of itself, she shows us the helplessness within this victim. And we now also know where the P came from in his name after that emotional urinal test testimony. You know, this is about power, dominance and control. And did he breaking down people like a drill instructor using violence and intimidation? And once he gets them right where he wants them, well, then he can do anything that he wants with his deviant fantasies. I mean, look what he's doing here in this particular video. She doesn't exist. She is just an instrument of his violence

and his insecurities. That's what he's doing here. She's a hero. And we know where the defense is going trying to explain away this video. Listen to me taking on Mark Garagos about this and Harvey Levin. What they say is that the fight was not over the freak off. The fight was over a text message on Diddy's phone that Cassie saw involving another woman. So that's what they're laying out. I mean, they've as much as said that, right? Correct. From our friends at Tubi and more. She was getting dragged back into that hotel room for a freak off and she was trying to get away. Hold on, hold on. Garagos, that's not what the defense is going to argue. They're not going to

say it was over a freak off, right? Yeah. I mean, the public filings dispute that. From our friends at TB, they can argue it's not a freak off till they're blue in the face. But their theory that she was the aggressor, you're trying, let's see the video again. You're trying to tell me that 90 pound Cassie Ventura is beating Sean Combs's bony rear end. No, that is what they're claiming that she's the bad guy here. She's the aggressor because she is angry that she saw a text to Combs from another woman. Bethany Marshall, they can argue that until they use up every ounce of oxygen in the courtroom. But that don't make it true. It does not make it true, Nancy.

And if anybody out there knows about domestic violence, what they also know is that perpetrators always claim that they're being abused by the victim. That's domestic abuse and sex trafficking 101. I didn't know they always claimed they were the ones being abused. They always do. As police officers who go to domestic violence calls, once they get there, the perp, usually the larger person, often substance abusing, which is what we see here, usually says, oh, she hit me or she this or she that.

And the scene just does not back it up. I'm familiar with them saying she started it yeah she's right Bethany and they always say she started it okay like a three-year-old does that being mirrored here I see that being mirrored here in so many ways because he actually I don't even know how much he or the defense is saying this to manipulate the jury, I think in P. Diddy's mind, he actually believes she did something to him. That is the kind of psychopathology that we're seeing here. One little detail stands out to me, Nancy,

and I haven't been able to get it out of my mind. She went to rehab numerous times because she wanted a good, sober, healthy life. And then he re-addicted her. She had to use substances to get through the freak-offs. So this is yet another indication of sex trafficking. This is what Johns do. They addict their victims.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace to sydney summer joining me uh crime stories investigative reporter it's not just her testimony it's not just what she says wasn't there a witness that what was going on in the intercontinental was a freak off yes nancy The first person on the stand, Israel Flores, the security guard at the Intercontinental Hotel, testified that he saw another man in their hotel room. Now, could that have been unrelated to a freak-off? Possibly. But for Kathy to attack Combs in front of this other random man, why was he there? Why was he in their room? I don't understand how the defense is going to combat that piece of testimony. And they did try and point out on his cross-exam that Flores did not mention that man in his initial incident report. And Flores' response

was that he was not involved in the assault. That was his concern, what he saw in the hallway. So it'll be interesting to see how they try and prove that Cassie was upset over texts, and this wasn't a freak off. Cassie Ventura switches up her appearance for her third day on the stand. Wearing a tuxedo jacket over a cream-colored blouse, Cassie answers questions softly, almost at a whisper. The last two days on the stand may be taking a toll on the pregnant mom, Cassie requesting a 10-minute break just an hour into her cross-examination. When Cassie returns from her break, she clutches a string of beads with a tassel on it as lawyer Ana Estavo continues to

ask her about sexually explicit text messages sent to her boyfriend in the early years of their relationship. These freak-offs lasted between one and four days. Cassie Ventura choking on a sex worker's urine. This was a man with seemingly unlimited power and willing to use it to do whatever it takes to get what he wants. The truth about Dede is much, much more dark. Cassie Ventura on the stand throughout the day on cross-examination. She held up like a trooper on direct, but during cross, she often broke down in tears. She requested a break. This as the state is pummeling her with questions about the nature of her relationship with Sean Combs, pointing out texts where she seems amenable to free coughs. Of course, those were in the early years when she was very young dating Sean Combs. But this is the harsh reality. Back out to veteran

trial lawyer Greg Morse. To prove a RICO, racketeering, organized crime, a conspiracy, a crime conspiracy case, you have to have an underlying crime. It's like prosecuting the mob if they never committed a murder or a theft or money laundering. Prosecute the gang hanging out at Uncle Pauly's. That's not a crime. There has to be a crime that the group comes together even very loosely and enables. The group has to enable a crime. What am I getting at? everything that happened was willing and consensual, then there is no rape and there is nothing that was done illegally. See what I mean? So everyone keeps saying this is not about domestic abuse.

This is not about a sex attack. This is about RICO and sex trafficking. Without the underlying felonies, you don't have a case. Well, you're right. You don't. But in this situation, the way it's charged, you don't have a case. You're right, you don't. But in this situation, the way it's charged, that could be prostitution, transporting other sex workers, not Cassie and the rape. So they don't need to prove necessarily just that.

You know, but you, again, I think you proved it in the segment, you just did. This is a domestic violence situation and everybody's bootstrapping into this horrible sex trafficking case. That's just not what this is. This is. And but the government doesn't have a hard time approving that prostitution is still illegal in America. So they can just use that. I've had the government in white collar cases, 100 million frauds literally use a stamp to show an overt act on money laundering count. So you don't need weighty evidence to prove these elements. Speaking of an overt act, Greg Morse, you mentioned domestic abuse. You mentioned even

if Cassie Ventura is believed by the jury, which I don't think they're going to do after that video, that it was all willing and consensual. When you get to the domestic violence and forcing her into the freak-offs, she states very clearly on the stand that employees of Sean Combs knew what was happening and enabled it. There's your loose confederation. Listen. Combs' assistants were very aware of how Combs treated her. They saw her injuries, and D-Rock, a security guard, was once brought to tears by her appearance after a beating. In addition to testimony, security guards took Cassie to a plastic surgeon for stitches. Combs' driver, Roger Bonds, once physically caught her as she tried to run from Combs and returned her to him.

So Sidney Sumner, they were all in it together. The bodyguard chasing her down and physically making her come back to Sean Combs. Everybody that ordered baby oil, lighting, booked a room, called cleanup. Hey, let's see the video of cleanup coming after a freak off at the Intercontinental. They didn't have just a trash bag. They have to have basically a dumpster that they're going down and cleaning out the room after a freak off. They were all part of it, Sidney. That is the gang, the Loose Confederation. Yes, Nancy. It seems like there were many, many people, whether or not unwittingly, participating in setting up these freak-offs. Cassie testified earlier this morning that Combs was very, very secretive about these

freak-offs with his staff. They even wore masks to conceal their identities. So Patsy says that, yes, assistants were involved in setting things up. They brought lighting. They brought baby oil. They followed whatever Combs requests were up until the freak off began. And from there, Combs kept it a secret.

What happened in that hotel room? What about it, Greg Morse? Greg Morse, do you wear a mask when you go to work? Because you don't want people to know it a secret. What happened in that hotel room? Well, what about it, Greg Morse? Greg Morse, do you wear a mask when you go to work? Because you don't want people to know it's you? No. But it's not illegal if I did. I hope. It's not a crime if I did.

It's not a crime if I did, though. So you consensually have this wild sex party. I don't understand why you're conflating the domestic violence with the consensual sex party that she says. She literally says, I didn't tell anybody. She had nuts on her head. Rob Shooter, when you were hearing this testimony, knowing Combs, as you did as his former PR guru, do you believe it's possible? I think that it is guilty guilty i think this video changed everything i'm in a group text with several people who have worked with diddy throughout the years and some

people in that text when this first started what a year and a half ago we were hearing rumors some people that worked for him not me but some people still believed he was innocent until that video was released by CNN. That video has changed everything. And what I'm shocked about here, Nancy, is that Diddy is a very cautious, very controlling individual. The fact that video even exists is a miracle. Thank God it does exist. He tried to get rid of it. But the fact that he thought he was so above the law that he could attack somebody in a public hallway of a hotel and get away with it gives us an insight into who this man really is. Until high noon tomorrow to finish the cross-exam of Cassie Ventura. Cassie Ventura considers suicide after what she lived through with Combs. Listen. Cassie struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts after Combs. Even as she moved on with her now-husband, Alex Fine, Combs continued to threaten her,

demanding he be reimbursed for Cassie's training sessions with fine. At one point, Combs cryptically wrote he had iPads full of skeletons, recordings of the freak-offs. Cassie says her husband stopped her from walking out of their home into busy traffic. Straight out to Lynn Shaw, founder-director at Lynn's Warriors. What technical legal term? A P.O.S. Threatening her with, quote, iPads full of skeletons. She was on the brink of suicide after what she went through with Combs. You know, Nancy, we see this time and time again. Listen, the public has to realize, and I'm going to go back to the justice system as well. These people are psychologically damaged. They've been groomed. They've been trapped. They're not in control. She went to rehab. She tried to clean herself up. Luckily, right now, she's got a supportive husband. You know,

she's a mom. She's about to have another, her third baby. But here's the thing. Many of our victims and survivors that we speak to, They tell us the same exact playbook, the same exact story. They just can't handle it anymore. And they figure nobody believes them. Nobody wants to help them. The person with the power and the money, they're in control. And they say, you know what? It would just be a better place if I was gone. And there's also that element. We have to remind everybody they're embarrassed, believe it or not. And I'm tired of people who say to me, oh, why don't these people just kick and run away and go somewhere? Where are they going

when somebody is holding this over their heads, these videos? And I want to point out, we still don't know. Where are all these videos? Perhaps uploaded also to porn websites forever for people to look at? We don't know. All I know is this is the same playbook, psychologically damaged, and we should commend Cassie for coming forward for all victims, not just of Sean Combs' dirty ditty, but all of them watching right now are telling me they are traumatized listening to everything in this trial. For what it's worth, Cassie Ventura, we believe you.

Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.