Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - DISGRACED JUDGE PULLS TRIGGER IN EXECUTION MURDERS

Episode Date: January 12, 2024

January 31, 2013, a 911 call comes in: the caller tells the operator that a man has been shot. Around 9 a.m., five shots were fired and seconds later, 3 more shots were fired. Police arrived at the crime scene swiftly and find the chief assistant district attorney for the Kaufman County Criminal District Attorney's Office Mark Hasse bleeding. No traces were left at the crime scene, not even a bullet casing. The only evidence is eyewitnesses. One witness said the shooter was completely dressed in black, and after firing the shots, jumped into the back seat of the white sedan and disappeared. Another witness,  according to Medium.com, said he heard Hasse shouting loudly “No, no, I’m sorry.” Hasse dies. Just two months after, Assistant District Attorney Mark Hasse is gunned down. Kaufman County Criminal District Attorney Mike McLelland, and his wife, Cynthia McLelland, plan an Easter dinner for friends and family. Dallas police officer CJ Tomlinson is a family friend, and his mother is supposed to drop off vegetables for Cynthia McLelland to prepare for dinner. When she doesn't get the McLellands on the phone, she asks her son to check on the couple. Tomlinson and his stepfather go to the McLelland home. The front door is open and shell casings are on the entryway floor. Mike and Cynthia McLelland, both have been shot dead. One of the shots was directly into Cynthia McLelland's head. Tomlinson describes the scene as a "home invasion" style assault. Mark Hasse and Mark McLelland acted as prosecutors in former judge Eric Williams' felony theft Case. That history put him on the police radar. When officers checked his internet search history, they found that Williams had been actively searching for information on Mark Hasse and Mike McLelland. Documents were found on a white sedan, issued in a false name, and the login and password for an account that had been leaving anonymous messages for police about the murders were found, but there was not enough evidence to charge him with the murders.   Then came a break. An acquaintance of Eric Williams’ says that he had been asked to rent a garage in his name. Police find the white sedan in the garage, as well as police uniforms, badges,  weapons, and even homemade napalm.  There were also more than 30 guns,  but there was no weapon matching the one that shot the victims. And there was still one question to be answered: If the suspect jumped into the back seat to speed away from the crime scene, who was driving? Kim Williams was driving. She was Eric Williams' wife. She confesses to the police. The pair are convicted. Eric Williams gets the death penalty, which he has appealed repeatedly.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Judge Erleigh Wiley -  Kaufman County Criminal District Attorney (name appeared on Eric Williams' 'hit list');  Author of, “Target on My Back: A Prosecutor’s Terrifying Tale of Life on a Hit List”   Alan Bennett – Former Assistant District Attorney; Partner at Gunter, Bennett, and Anthes Caryn L. Stark – NYC Psychologist, Trauma and Crime Expert; Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: “Caryn Stark” Fil Waters – Former Homicide Detective for the Houston Police Department, President & CEO of Kindred Spirits Investigations & Security, Inc. Dr. Michelle Dupre – Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide”, Ret. Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff’s Department Hayden Sparks - Senior Reporter for The Texan; X: @HaydenJSparks & @TheTexanNews  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. When I hear or see the word judge, I have a lot of mixed emotions. Several judges held me in contempt. Several judges made bad rulings that hurt my case. Several judges that I practiced in front of, I made horrible mistakes that ended up getting cases reversed. On the other hand, most judges I've ever encountered and or practiced before are some of the most decent and honorable people I've ever met. So exactly how does a Texas judge end up sentenced to the death penalty?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. Let's just start at the beginning. Take a listen to this. January 31st, a 911 call comes in. The caller tells the operator that a man has been shot. Around 9 a.m., five shots were fired, and seconds later, three more shots were fired.

Police arrived at the scene swiftly and find Chief Assistant District Attorney for the Kauffman County Criminal District Attorney's Office, Mark Hasse, bleeding. No traces were left at the crime scene, not even bullet casings. The only evidence? Eyewitnesses. One witness said the shooter was completely dressed in black, and after firing the shots, jumped into the shooter was completely dressed in black and after firing the shots, jumped into the back seat of a white sedan and disappeared. Another witness, according to Medium.com, said he heard Hasse shouting loudly, no, no, I'm sorry. Hasse dies.

Wow. Okay. I'm trying to drink in everything that I just heard. A prosecutor in the Kauffman County District Attorney's Office, Mark Hasse, is dead. No traces left behind as to who the perp could be. The shooter, observed by a witness, clad totally in black, which says this was premeditated and the perp dressed up like a ninja and that Hesse pled for his life. That's what I know right now. Joining me in all-star panel, but first I want to go to special guest Hayden Sparks. Joining us, senior reporter for The Texan, and you can find Hayden at thetexan.news. Hayden, thank you for being with us. Let's just start with Hesse's death. What can you tell me about it?

I think you highlighted one of the most disturbing aspects of this case, and that is that he pled for his life before he died. This type of violence is something that one would expect in a war-torn country, not a peaceful community on the outskirts of Dallas. And I think the death of Mark is tragic. I know this much. Let me go to renowned medical examiner and pathologist, former detective with the Lexington County Sheriff's Department, thrust to the forefront of our media generation during the Alex Murdoch double homicide case, author of Money, Mischief, and Murder, the Murdoch Saga, the rest of the story. I'm referring, of course, to Dr. Michelle Dupree.

You can find her at dmichelledupreemd.com. I know this, Dr. Dupre. I know that ballistics show that the victim, Mark Hasse, was shot with an assault rifle. Wow. What can you tell me about assault rifles and what damage would that do to a human body? Yes, Nancy. It's atrocious, actually. Assault rifles do a lot of damage because they're high velocity. And so it will literally leave holes, gaping holes in the body. And I haven't seen the autopsy report, but from what I have seen, he was shot multiple times with this. Shot multiple times with an assault rifle. To Alan Bennett joining me, a former district attorney,

now civil attorney, at Gunter, Bennett & Anthes, gbafirm.com. Alan, thank you for being with us. What is your experience with assault rifles and how are they different from, let's just say, a.22 or a.38? Well, and you're absolutely correct, Nancy.

An assault rifle is generally thought of as its name implies. It is a rifle used to commit assaults. Typical examples would be an AR-15 carried by our U.S. military, an AK-47 carried by Soviet or former Soviet bloc countries. They are generally regarded as military weapons used by members of a standing army, large capacity magazines, extremely high velocity bullets, which do tremendous damage to the human body, primarily designed to be used on a battlefield. You know, I remember the first time I saw an assault weapon used, it was in a murder case. And what I especially remember about it is the

defense attorney who later became a prosecutor, Paul Howard, his defense was transferred intent because who his defendant murdered was a little school boy named Moonbeam, his nickname, played in the school band and was going home to his mom after school. And the defendants meant to shoot another drug dealer. But they shot this little kid instead, who in the end was crawling toward his home, calling out for his mother. And I saw that weapon and held it in court. It was one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. Looked like a machine gun.

And it looked like it had been spray painted matte black. That's what an assault rifle is like. It's pure evil. And that's what was used multiple rounds pumped into these victims. And when I say victims, that's right. The first victim was prosecutor Mark Hasse. And back to you again, Alan Bennett, when you prosecuted as, I don't know if you went through this, but I did. You get threats. You get death threats. I had my tire slashed. My front door kicked in. My mailbox knocked over. Blah, blah, blah. But I think in the

back of my mind, I never really thought that anyone was going to kill me. I don't know why I thought that after so many attacks on my car and my house and threats, but I never really thought it would happen. What about you? I'm in that same boat, Nancy. And I think part of that is just our human conditioning to think, well, that's just so extreme. That is so rare. It's in that same mindset of thinking, well, that will never happen to me. That is something that only happens to other people. You only read about the news. And unfortunately, from time to time, we wake up one day and realize that we are those other people in the news and that it can happen to us. I think it's that false sense of security that we naturally assume just by the rarity of those actual instances. Well, another thing too, Karen Stark joining us, renowned therapist, psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan.

You've seen her on TV, on radio as a trauma expert and consultant. She's at karenstark.com. Karen, I think part of it is, I don't know how you could live life at all if you were constantly afraid. Well, that's without a doubt, Nancy, because anything could happen to anyone, right? At any moment, you could cross the street. People always use that example and get hit by a car. It just doesn't seem like something that could possibly happen to anyone. When I mentioned that Mark Hasse was the first victim, the story goes on.

Take a listen. Just two months after Assistant District Attorney Mike Haas is gunned down, Kauffman County Criminal District Attorney Mike McLeelan and his wife Cynthia McLeelan plan an Easter dinner for friends and family. Dallas Police Officer C.J. Tomlinson is a family friend. His mother is supposed to drop off vegetables for Cynthia McLeelan to prepare for dinner. When she doesn't get the McLeelans on the phone, she asks her son Tomlinson to check on the couple.

Tomlinson and his stepfather go to the McLeelan home. The front door is open. Shell casings are on the entryway floor. Mike and Cynthia McLeelan both have been shot dead. One of the shots was directly into Cynthia McLeelan's head. Tomlinson describes the scene as a home invasion style assault. OK, I'm trying to make sense of what I'm hearing. Mike and Cynthia McLeelan also shot dead with Cynthia McLeelan being shot execution style in the center of the forehead again in their

own homes and this is Easter dinner for friends and family. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back to Hayden Sparks joining us, investigative reporter with The Texan. What happened to them? This husband and wife were in their home enjoying dinner, and they had the piece of their home invaded by this individual, and they were barbarically attacked as they enjoyed the privacy of their home. Now, I understand they're getting ready for an Easter dinner and they've invited friends and family over. A police officer, of course, one of them must be a prosecutor. Which one? Mike

McClellan was a prosecutor with the Coffman County District Attorney's Office. So he and Hasse were both prosecutors. Okay. Mike McClellan, assistant district attorney, and his wife Cynthia are preparing this Easter meal. A Dallas County police officer, which explains why they're friends with the cop, because he's probably been a witness for them a million times. C.J. Tomlinson's a family friend, and his mom is supposed to drop off veggies for the Easter dinner. But she can't get them on the phone, so she asks her son, the cop, to check in on them. The cop, Tomlinson, and his stepdad go over to the home when nobody answers, and the front door is wide open. Now right there, Phil Waters. Phil

Waters joining me, former homicide detective for Houston PD, president CEO of Kindred Spirits Investigations and Security. You can find him at kindredspiritsinvestigations.com. Phil, you're a former homicide detective. When I see an open door on somebody's home or apartment right there, I'm like, OK, something's wrong, because that's been true in every case I've seen where the front door is wide open. Well, exactly. In homicide, we call that a clue, right? So, yeah, when you see something that is not in its natural state, which is the door being closed, for a police

officer approaching a scene like that, certainly the spider sense is going to go off and they're going to enter that property with the expectation that they're going to find something that's going to be out of the norm. It also tells me that the perp didn't care if people saw the front door open or he, and statistically it's always a he, left in a hurry. He didn't bother to shut the door behind them. The floor strewn with shells. It was described as a home invasion. Front door opened, shell casings all over the entryway door, which tells me the perp started shooting the moment he came in.

To you again, Dr. Michelle Dupree, the author of another book, Homicide Investigation Field Guide, she literally wrote the book on homicide investigations. What does this tell you that one of the shots was directly into the forehead of the prosecutor's wife, Cynthia McClelland? Nancy, that's a statement. That is execution style and, I mean, obviously intentional. So she was a target just like her husband. Execution style. When you say execution style, Dr. Dupree, explain that. Interpret that for everyone. Well, basically, you know, there is something a lot of people call the T-zone, which is in your forehead if you make a T straight down your forehead into your nose, where if a gunshot is in that area, it is most likely to be fatal. And usually there is a couple shots to the chest and

one to the head in order to make sure that that person is actually dead. And so that would be execution style. Joining me right now is a special guest. And I want to start questioning Early Wiley out of Texas as well with a very narrow line of questioning. Early Wiley, thank you for being with us. Well, thank you, Nancy. Early, did you know these three victims, Mike McClellan, Cynthia McClellan, and Mark Hasse? Absolutely. Coffman County is a small community, so sure. And particularly 10 years ago, everyone knows each other, particularly when you work at the courthouse together. You know, from your background experience, you get to know the players, you see them every day,

and you work with them as a prosecutor. And then at the time, I was a judge. Are you still called Judge Wiley? I am. I think it's, you know, one of those, we don't like titles in our country, but I retired from the bench when I became the elected district attorney because Mike wasn't an ADA. He was the elected prosecutor. I'm glad you told me that because that is a very, very important distinction. It is. Not an assistant DA, the elected DA. Yes, ma'am. Judge Wiley, once a judge, always a judge.

The other day, the other night, my daughter, who's so shy, is a football manager at her high school. And they had a banquet. And I went to the banquet, of course. And at a distance, I saw someone. I thought I recognized him. And after the banquet, I went up to him. And it was a judge I had tried many, many cases before when I first became a prosecutor.

And I naturally referred to him as judge. Yes, ma'am. Another thing that you mentioned is the, I guess for lack of a better word, camaraderie, that you form with people in the courthouse, the clerks, the judges, the court reporters, the prosecutors, even the defense attorneys in a weird hybrid way. Because you are really in the trenches and you are together in very, very difficult combat duty every day. Every day there are murderers, rapists, child molesters, drug lords walking by

you in the hall, chained together, I hope, wandering the courthouse. Everybody's got a gun on them. And you're trying cases that break your heart, investigating them, doing the legal research, making arguments, feeling your stomach clench when you get a question from the jury. I mean, you go through so much together. It's like really being in the foxhole together, right? I would agree with that. I think your descriptors are so accurate because like you said, you know, I would always tell my young prosecutors, hey, when you go in the room, you own it. So you make sure, because we always sit by the jury box, that you make good eye contact with that reporter. She's going to tell you if you're going too fast that the judge doesn't. She's going to tell you how you're doing. She's going to tell you if you're going too fast that the judge doesn't. She's going to tell you how you're doing.

She's looking at the jury. But you own that space. But you do work with everyone. You work with the clerks. First lesson I ever learned when I was a Dallas prosecutor is don't tick off a clerk. Oh, no. They'll make your life H-E-double-L. That's right.

If you are rude or arrogant to a clerk and first of all why would you be they're working really long horrible hours that's right and i would say that believe it or not my best friends of all these years have been a defense attorney female defense attorney, and a court reporter. That's right. We tried cases together for years. And, of course, my investigator who I was with all the time. Oh, my gosh. We couldn't do it without them. No. No way.

I mean, the bond you have with these people. So you know these people, Mike, Cynthia McClellan, and Mark Hasse, right? Of course. We had been entertained at the McClellan's house because he's elected. I was elected judge. He had a big Christmas party. Mark was in my office the night before in chambers because we were working late with our treatment court and he came by. And so we all, of course, knew each other.

It wasn't as casual because I was a judge. You keep a little bit of deference. But course, know each other. It wasn't as casual because I was a judge to keep a little bit of deference. But we still knew each other. And if you were there late, you walk each other out. Because me and my coordinator that ran the after hours treatment court program were there and he was talking to her. He walked out and went his way and I had a closer parking because I was a judge you know people also don't get it your hours are insane I'd be at the courthouse on weekends late late late at night and you sometimes I had it all to myself but uh usually there'd be somebody else an investigator uh you know one of the assistants wandering around

and when you say there's a big difference between an assistant district attorney, which is what I was, and the elected district attorney, I don't know if you remember my boss, Louis Slate, and he was then the longest serving district attorney in the U.S., 37 years. He's like a grandfather to me. Wow. And he allowed me to become a trial lawyer, which has always been my life until I had the twins. Guys, you are hearing Judge Early Wiley, who, let me just say, and I'll let her explain the whole thing to you, came that close to having a bullet in her forehead too. So we now have three murder victims all connected to the district attorney's office and nobody knows what the hay is going on. But now that you've got two DAs, what cases were they working together? Why those two DAs? Why not another assistant DA? Well, they got a break.

They got a break because of home security surveillance. Take a listen to our reporter, Sydney Sumner from Crime Online. Then came a break. An acquaintance of Eric Williams said that a few months ago, he had been asked to rent a garage in his name. Police find the white sedan in the garage, as well as police uniforms, badges, weapons, and even homemade napalm. There were also more than 30 guns, but there was no weapon matching the one that shot the victims. And there was still one question to be answered. If the suspect jumped into the back seat to speed away from the crime scene, who was driving? So that bit, the white sedan, the perp jumping into the back

seat of a car and speeding away, somebody had to be driving. Man, and then this, an acquaintance of Eric Williams said a few months before he had been asked to rent a garage in his name. In that garage, they find a white sedan and now they're onto it. Think Chevy Avalanche in the Rex Huerman case. Remember the Long Island serial killer suspect? Chevy Avalanches haven't been made since 2013. So these women were meeting up with a guy in a Chevy Avalanche. What does he have parked down in front of his house?

A Chevy Avalanche. Hello. Chevy Avalanche. What does he have parked down in front of his house? A Chevy Avalanche. Hello? Now you've got a white sedan speeding away from the McClellan's home, and now you find a white sedan in a garage with police uniforms, badges. Where are they getting that? Police uniforms, and I've got one badge. The badge I was given when I was sworn in an assistant district attorney. Police uniforms, badges, weapons, homemade napalm. Phil Waters, why would anybody have homemade napalm? I haven't heard that since we talked about Vietnam.

Yeah, exactly. I can't imagine other than this is a person, you know, the badges and so forth. I'm not, that doesn't surprise me. And some of the, I think he had body armor and some other law enforcement related equipment in there. And I don't find that terribly strange. Dr. Michelle Dupree, what the hell is napalm? Explain in a nutshell, a nutshell. Napalm is a very powerful explosive. It is used mostly by the military.

You can make it at home if you know the recipe, but it is very devastating. What does it do to you if it gets on your body or your eyes? It actually burns. It burns off the skin. It burns off. It can basically kill you. What I associate with napalm is the napalm girl. That horrible and iconic photo of a nine-year-old girl running away after a napalm bomb struck her village all the way back in June of 1972. 50 years later, she had her final round of treatment for pain and scars she suffered that day. Phil Waters, I heard you saying something about napalm is known as what?

Jelly gasoline. It's either petrol or diesel. And when the mixture is put and applied, it sticks to the skin. And the purpose of it, the jelly part of it applied, it sticks to the skin. And the purpose of it, the jelly part of it, is to stick to the skin and it burns all the way to the bone. It's devastating. So who in the hay would have homemade napalm in a storage unit or a rented spot? So now we know a name, Eric Williams. Who's that? Listen. Eric Williams seemed to be the all-American boy. He grew up in Azle, Texas. He was a Boy Scout, played in a band, and graduated from Texas Christian University, where he was in the

Reserve's Officers Training Corps, ROTC. He met and married Kim. She was raised in Dallas. She did college coursework at the Southern Methodist University and at the University of Texas at Arlington. They were a couple for more than 15 years. Sounds like the all-American golden boy, but then things went sideways. Listen. Eric Williams studied and passed the bar. He works as a lawyer for the Coffman City Court Department and justice of the peace for Coffman County. That is until he was caught on surveillance cameras stealing three computer monitors with a value around $600. His arrest takes place in his office. As a public servant, he is charged with a felony, handcuffed and marched out in front of his co-workers. Williams claims it's

all a misunderstanding. He says he bypasses standard ordering protocol, but says the monitors were for office use, not personal. But police find one of the monitors stashed in his truck. OK, wait, I'm not understanding what happened. Judge Early Wiley joining us out of Texas and author of an incredible book, Target on My Back, a prosecutor's terrifying tale of life on a hit list. Tell me about these monitors. There. OK.

There were computer monitors that were stored in an area at the courthouse that the justice of the peace worked at. And like the rest of us that work in any company or the government, when you want new equipment, you know, there's a whole process. I just don't go, oh, let me grab some of those and I'll take those home. And I don't do that in the, you know, after hours without getting whatever you would call it, a requisition order, something in writing. I mean, this is government county property and our tax dollars. So the value is more than 600. It was over 1500 because it was a third degree felony at the time in Texas 10 years ago. And so he took the monitors at night.

The irony was there had been missing items before. And then Sheriff set up monitors, cameras, so that they could see who was taking the items unfortunately i believe they thought it was the cleaning crew that was taking it after hours and what do they find the it the morning when they right after they had placed the camera they actually find out that the jp with there's a picture that a lot of people have seen on camera of him, a grainy picture, walking around after hours, secreting items where he didn't know the new cameras were posted. And so he was caught on video stealing county equipment after hours. And yet he said, because when you're someone like the murderer, you think you can do no wrong.

So if you want computers, you just take them. If you are a JP, you can take what you want, set it up the way you want. And if somebody accuses you of something, don't believe your lying eyes. That was who he was. Justice of the Peace. And to think this is all about three computer monitors. Well, how do these victims, Mark Hasse, Cynthia McClellan, Mike McClellan, fit into Eric Williams swiping monitors? And when she says, J.P., Justice of the Peace, you think, right?

Why would he steal computer monitors? But that's not the end of the story. Listen. The prosecutor in Williams' case, Assistant District Attorney Mark Haas, offers him a deal. Plead guilty to misdemeanor and abuse of office. Williams would have to resign as justice of the peace, but he would be allowed to keep his law license. Williams counters with an offer to make restitution but not admit guilt. The district attorney's office refuses. If Williams is found guilty of a felony, he loses his law license, his job, benefits, everything. Eric Williams decides to fight the charges. But before his trial starts, more charges are brought against Williams for supplies he bought and billed to the law library he manages. None of the supplies and equipment he

bought were found in the office. The jury deliberates four hours in Williams' theft trial and delivers a guilty verdict. Instead of being sentenced to jail, Williams is placed on two years probation. So that is how the whole thing started. Hayden Sparks, Hayden Sparks is joining me, senior investigative reporter for The Texan. So this all starts over three computer monitors that he swipes or he's caught swiping. Maybe he swiped other stuff, but he gets prosecuted for stealing them. He even takes it to a jury trial. He's put on probation. Does he lose his position, Hayden Sparks?

I believe he was suspended, and it is astonishing that all of this started with something as trivial as computer monitors. Trying to figure out all this goes down over theft in the courthouse. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Judge Early Wiley, joining us, author of Target on My Back, a prosecutor's terrifying tale of life on a hit list. So tell me, he insisted on taking it to a jury trial. Did he lose his position as justice of the peace? He did. The Texas Judicial Conduct Commission, I believe, met quickly once there was a conviction because obviously he appealed that conviction.

And there's a timeline there that we would have to go back and recall because shortly after that appeal, I think it's when the murder started. But that's not what you specifically asked me. You specifically asked me, did the commission suspend him? Yes, and they removed him. Oh, so it's not just over getting the probation. That's right. He loses, Karen Starr, you're the shrink. He loses the trappings of being a judge. That's a lot.

Well, but Nancy, if you are someone who is a psychopath and someone does that to you, something like that happens to you and you lose your identity, you lose everything that all the perks that come along with that. You are going to be insanely angry and want revenge. That's the kind of thing that happens to a person who is not normal, who doesn't care about the consequences of his actions. Let me ask the judge. Judge Early Wiley, it's not just getting probation. It's not just the cost of the trial. It's losing your position, your position as JP, as judge, respected in the community, special seats,

preferential treatment. That's losing your identity for a lot of judges or prosecutors. Nancy, you're spot on. And I think the doctor's right for a person that has the mindset that they can, they're ever powerful and whatever they do, they can do whatever they want to do. That's what he thought. For those that worked with Eric, you didn't always see that side of him because you got to remember, he was part of us. This is from the inside,

but there's that other piece. Like you said, just computer equipment? No. Losing his position and the fact that his colleagues are the ones that said, you know, the community is not going to let an elected official take this equipment. pedestal is a judge. That's right. And when you do something wrong, that's the price of being a judge or prosecutor. That's right. People look at you and if you screw up, oh,

you become, you become the scapegoat. You become the trophy. You will not get away with it once people are onto you because you're held to a higher standard and you should be. You're passing judgment. You're judging other people. So you darn well better be above reproach.

So how are these people connected? Listen to Nicole Parton in our cut six. Mark Haas and Mike McLeelan acted as prosecutors in Eric Williams' case, which put him on police radar. When officers checked his internet search history, they found that Williams had been actively searching for information on Mark Haas and Mike McLeelan. Documents were found on a white sedan issued in a false name, and the login and password for an account, which had been leaving anonymous messages for police about the murders, was found. But there was not enough evidence to charge him with the murders. Judge Wiley, how did you end up on a hit list? Nancy, I had dealt with Eric before he was a justice of the peace. When he was in private practice as a defense attorney, Eric did county work doing child protective services attorney at Lytton representing children

hit all the trappings of this guy that was great that did the work for the children but what we found out later and I was asked by the administrative judge to check in to an issue was that there was some over billing that the, when they cross-checked the billing, that was being turned in by some attorney that it didn't add up. So my work in Dallas as a former prosecutor was to do some CPS work, which is Child Protective Services work involving children that are abused and neglected. So I was familiar with the time it would take. And so what I did is I took that task on, and the administrative judge asked. It's quite simple. Frankly, my coordinator,

we pulled random files from several different attorneys. And of course, we pulled the docket sheets where the judge said how long the hearings were, what the records were. It was an easy cross-check. And what we found over and over again was that Eric Williams was stealing money from the county and overbilling. So him, along with a few other attorneys, I don't know, I thought, because I was a judge, I brought them into my office, spoke to them individually, and said, this is what we've determined, and I want you to stop. This is county money. This is your warning. I'm not referring this to the DA's office, but this is something that I can see, and I'm not going to have it. I will honestly tell you, I never thought any more about that because that's what you do. And if a judge calls you into their chambers and they set you down, you take it.

The other two attorneys were apologetic. They told me it was their mistake. And I said, of course, no problem. I can't wait to continue to work with you. Eric Williams denied that he did it, but okay, that's fine. He left. He came back later, told my coordinator, which is like the court secretary, you take me off that wheel.

Remember the guy that wants to help kids? He didn't want to do the work anymore. Because you busted him. Yes. When my secretary told me that, I go, hmm, I guess he never took an economics course. It's called supply and demand. I'll just call attorneys and ask them if they'll do this work. Yeah. I mean, in every courtroom, the court where you're having plea and arraignments, there are pews full of lawyers who want appointed cases.

That's right. Where a person doesn't have a lawyer and the public defender's office is inundated and you find a list of good lawyers that can take appointed cases for people that don't have lawyers. So yeah, if one falls out, there's one, there's 10 in line for that appointed case. But how did you find out you were actually on a hit list for murder? I found out because the special prosecutor in the case, once the case began, our office recused because then I was the elected DA. I was told by him, he came into my office, Bill Worski, one of the special prosecutors, and said to me to sit down. He wanted to tell me something. And they were preparing the case.

By this time, Kim Williams had become a witness for the state. And she shared with them that it was Eric's opinion, and she shared that. But for me, taking that work away from him, he wouldn't have been in the financial problem, but they had been fortunate enough for him to become a JP as a result of that. And for Eric, my calling him out was the beginning of the end of his successful career. Of course, total responsibility shift for his conduct. And then the JP business happened with the computer theft. And then that's how this list got created. And there were others. What went through your mind when you realized this guy, a judge, a justice of the peace, had you on a hit list for murder?

And someone I knew. OK, I thought, my God, you know, and it's different because as you guys have said, you've had threats, but you've actually seen and know this guy's killed people. By this time, he was in custody. But so many people, when I was appointed to be the elected when Mike was killed the year before. I took that job when we didn't have a suspect in custody. And so in my mind's eye, I mean, I really knew at that point I could have been killed. My children who were home with me then could have been killed. They're adults now.

And so it is chilling. You do things and you don't even think about it sometimes because I took the job. I was a judge. I had a different trajectory. I took that job because I was mad because I grew up in Kauffman and people were just going to kill people in Kauffman. I mean, I'm not going to sit by and let that happen. So I just thought, wow. You know, another thing, Judge, that gives me a real insight to this judge, Eric Williams' mind, is that once he's finally convicted on these murders, he's filed so many appeals. One claimed his, quote, brain was broken and that he needed an MRI that he didn't get for his first trial. But now that that was denied by Judge Mike Snipes.

Now, take a listen. Our cut 11, his latest attempt at a new trial. I hope you're sitting down. In his latest attempt to get a new death penalty trial, attorneys for Eric Williams claim they didn't have enough time to prepare for the trial that led to his conviction. The Daily Morning News reports that Williams attorneys attorneys claim in a 169-page filing that there was so much evidence that they didn't have enough time to review and prepare for trial. The attorneys also claim that Williams was tried before a biased judge

and that having his trial in Rockwell County rather than Kauffman County had no effect on providing him with a fair trial. You know what, when I hear I didn't have enough time to prepare for trial, I'll say something along the lines of, you should have started preparing for trial when you pulled that trigger. I like that line. I like that. Yeah, feel free to use it. The moment you pull that trigger, you should have started preparing for your trial and your death penalty sentence. Somehow he managed to rope his wife into it, in case you're wondering

who the getaway driver was. If you have information on a judge turned killer, Eric Williams and his wife, Kim Williams, dial 972-932-3094. Do I think his case is going to get reversed? No. Do I think he's going to get the death penalty? Yes, I do. But stranger things have happened. And if you have information, we need your help because when this comes to a new trial, if it ever does, we want to be locked and loaded. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an I Heart Podcast.