Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Dishwasher Repairmen Find Starved Tot-Girl Horrifically Bound With Thick Duct Tape

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

Maintenance workers at a Houston apartment complex, get a service call for a non-working dishwasher.   As they make repairs,  a child can be heard crying, inconsolably, in another room.  The workers find a toddler, lying on the living room floor under a blanket. Lifting the blanket, the 2-year-old child’s limbs are duct-taped together. The workers take photos and videos, leave the apartment, and call Houston police. Police take the girl to the hospital, where doctors say she might not have survived the night, had she not been brought in for care. KPRC reports the child was determined to be non-verbal and suffering from physical abuse as well as psychological abuse and neglect. Doctors discovered she also suffered a brain bleed caused by head trauma, anemia, and kidney failure as a result of the abuse. Even though she is two years old, the victim is so malnourished, and her weight is equivalent to that of an average 1-year-old.  Child Protective Services meets with the adults and five other children living in the apartment. The biological mother of the 2-year-old girl lives in another state and left her daughter in the care of the child’s 27-year-old cousin, Toniesha Deshae Perkins. Perkins claims the other children living in the apartment often tie up the toddler and themselves. Houston Police interview the other children in the home.  They say the girl sleeps on the floor and regularly removes the tape from her arms, legs, and mouth. The children say the toddler "gets popped" when she does, and a lock has been put on the refrigerator to prevent the little one from accessing food.   Three adults living in the apartment, Toniesha Deshae Perkins, Perkins' boyfriend, 23-year-old Kenry Fluker, and the toddler’s 17-year-old aunt, Mya Jhari Breaux-McGruder, are now charged with injury to a child and unlawful restraint of a person under 17.  Joining Nancy Grace Today:  James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; Twitter: @ShelnuttLawFirm  Dr. John Delatorre –  Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; X, IG, and TikTok – @drjohndelatorre Jason Jensen – Private Investigator (Jensen Private Investigations), Cold Case Expert (Salt Lake City, UT), and Co-founder: “Cold Case Coalition;” Investigations; X: @JasonJPI, Facebook/Instagram: “Jensen Investigations” Gelasia Croom - Chief Communications Officer for Prevent Child Abuse America; X & IG: @ @pcaamerica, FB: Prevent Child Abuse America   Dr. Harvey Castro– Board-certified Emergency Care Physician & Healthcare Consultant, CEO of ChatGPT and Healthcare; Author: “Revolutionize your health & fitness with ChatGPT’s modern weight loss hacks;” X: @HarveycastroMD Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter; X: @nicolepartin  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We have all had maintenance men come to our apartment or home but what this maintenance man found when he came to service a dishwasher was highly unusual as a matter of fact criminal a little girl just two years old found death, starved and bound with duct tape. A two-year-old little girl nearly starved, literally hours away from death, and horribly bound in duct tape. You know what happens when you bind a child in duct tape? Does the name Tot Mom Casey Anthony ring a bell? Remember when Kelly, her two-year-old daughter Kelly's remains were found, she was bound around the head with duct tape. There's a name called Mom Lori Vallow and her husband

number four or five, Ringabel, the prophet, Chad Daybell. Duct tape. It goes on and on. Ruby Frankie, the online influencer with her own program on how to raise your children. Her children starved and duct taped. What is wrong with these people? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. You know what? I'm a JD. I'm a trial lawyer. I'm not a shrink. Maybe they can sort through their problems behind bars. And you know, there's a controversial move afoot

for the death penalty to be imposed in cases of extreme child abuse. Let that sink in for a moment. A two-year-old girl starved and bound in duct tape and they're not even trying to hide it. The dishwasher repairman sees the girl. First of all, take a listen to this. Maintenance workers at a Houston apartment complex get a service call for a non-working dishwasher. As they make repairs, a child can be heard crying unconsolably in another room. The workers investigate and find a toddler lying in the living room floor under a blanket. Lifting the blanket, the two-year-old child's limbs are duct taped together. The workers take photos and videos, leave the apartment, and call Houston police. Okay, you know what? I'm so distraught about this. I need to hear that again. Take a listen to our friends at Crime Online.

Maintenance workers at a Houston apartment complex get a service call for a non-working dishwasher. As they make repairs, a child can be heard crying, unconsolably, in another room. The workers investigate and find a toddler lying in the living room floor under a blanket. Lifting the blanket, the two-year-old child's limbs are duct taped together. The workers take photos and videos, leave the apartment, and call Houston police. I guess they were too afraid to touch the child, afraid that they would somehow be blamed for her condition. And it reminds me a great deal of a case we're covering right now out of Ritzy, LA, where a famous producer's son dismembers his wife and tries to convince day workers to take

the remains away and throw them in a dumpster. They were so afraid when they looked into the trash bag, they went straight to police because they were afraid they would be blamed. Same thing here. Joining me, an all-star panel, but first I'm going to go to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Nicole Parton. Nicole, I'm going to just ask you a series of rapid fire questions, okay? Then I'm going to go to the other experts to explain aspects of what we are hearing right now you're telling me the little girl's two years old right yes and she's near death she's starved that much it's not like she just went to bed without her supper but the girl is about to die at age two and they find her duct tape. How? They're there working on the dishwasher and they hear this baby crying, like not just the baby upset, but uncontrollably crying,

fighting for its life. They go into the living room and they see a baby under a blanket. When they lift the blanket, there she is, duct tape, her limbs duct taped. They see her emaciated body. She's hours away from dying. Thank goodness they take the videos and they take photos and call authority. I don't know how medical professionals can determine you're just, quote, hours from death because, Nicole Parton, you have literally 10 children. When I gave birth to the twins, the doctor said Lucy would have died within 36 to 72 hours if we had not had an emergency C-section. She was not getting any nutrition. She weighed two pounds. John David, her twin brother, was getting it all. I don't know how they can look at someone and tell, but guess what? They're almost always right.

We have a medical doctor on, Dr. Harvey Castro, to explain that to us. But first, I want to go to Dr. John Delatore, a very well-known psychologist and mediator, especially in forensic psychology. You can find him at resolutionfcs.com. Dr. Delatore, thank you for being with us. Dr. Delatore, another striking aspect of this discovery of a two-year-old little girl duct taped and starved. They didn't really even try to hide it. The dishwasher repairman walks in and the baby is lying in the floor under a blanket crying,

I guess, in the next room. What is that? Well, you have to remember, these individuals are doing this because they don't see the child as being a human in any way. They have the blanket over the child because they want the child to be scared. In their mind, they're trying to teach this child a lesson, right? It doesn't matter if they have any family relations or anything like that. All that matters is that the children listen to them, right? Children in these situations are

merely objects. And if the object does something wrong, then they need to be punished. And they'll be punished with restricted movement, and they'll be punished with restricted movement and they'll be punished with the restriction on food to teach them a lesson. This is about power. This is about showing that they have authority over the child. Well, we'll see who gets taught a lesson in this scenario. I want to hear more about this. Jackie, let's hear in our cut to Dave Mack from Crime Online. The maintenance workers show Houston police their photos and videos. Police take the girl to the hospital, where doctors say she might not have survived through the night had she not been brought in for care. KPRC reports the child was malnourished and suffered injuries indicating physical abuse.

This is what I'm learning. Let me go to Dr. Harvey Castro, board-certified emergency care physician, health care consultant, CEO of Medical Intelligent Ops, and creator of Text Sherlock Holmes, which I love because my son and I are obsessed with Sherlock Holmes, and I very often go to my mind palace.

Dr. Castro, I want you to hear what I've learned about the injuries to this two-year-old little girl, 24 months old. Take a listen. The two-year-old girl was found with her feet duct taped and was determined to be non-verbal and suffering from physical abuse as well as psychological abuse and neglect. Doctors discovered she also suffered a brain bleed caused by head trauma, anemia, and kidney failure as a result of the abuse. Even though she is two years old, the victim is so malnourished her weight is equivalent to that of an average one-year-old. The list of the child's injuries was extensive, including acute kidney injury, bilateral subdural hemorrhages, anemia, malnourishment, subconjunctival hemorrhages, and retinal hemorrhages. You know, Dr. Harvey Castro, hearing Sidney Sumner from Crime Online apparently read off of a medical report reminds me of going to the medical examiner's office. And of course, they would all hide when they saw my beat up Honda,

usually smoking from under the hood, coming their way, let the blinds down, shut the door, because they did not want to go through every single word, which I had to do. It's like someone speaking Latin. When you medical examiners start talking, no offense, I love medical examiners. Dr. Harvey Castro, my first question is, how can you look at somebody and say, oh, well, they're going to be dead in 24 hours? How do you, it's like the weather. How do you know that? Yeah, honestly, it's our clinical

gestalt. After being, seeing so many patients think of it, we probably see thousands and thousands a year. And then walking in a room, you can tell color of the skin, if they're anemic, they're vitals to how their heart rate, how they're acting. Often within 30 seconds, you can walk in and say, yeah, this person's not going to make it, or this person's going to be hospitalized, or we need to jump on these things quick because this person's not going to make it. Wow. That was a lot of information, doctor. I'm trying to digest it, but it reminds me the twins are constantly asking, how do you know when people are lying? Well, because I put, oh, I don't know, five to 8,000 people under oath and watch them

lie. I certainly haven't taken a class in it, but I can tell most of the time. So you and other doctors, especially ER doctors, because you see so many people near death. It's not like going to the dermatologist, right? No offense to all you dermies out there, but they took one look at this little girl and went, she would be dead in 24 hours. That's what they said when Lucy was born. They looked at her and said she would have been dead in 36 hours max. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The injuries, specifically Dr. Castro, the one that concerned me the most, a brain bleed caused by head trauma.

That's not just bumping your head. That's being thrown against a floor or hit with an object. That and what we learned about the kidney, acute kidney injury. Now, again, I'm just a lawyer, but when you have acute kidney injury, and I don't mean kidney ailment, kidney illness, I mean kidney injury. I've only heard of that from someone getting punched or kicked or beaten and it hits the kidney. Yeah, exactly. And the fact that she's malnutritioned there tells me she's probably not getting any water. And that's another way of getting kidney disease. Wait, kidney disease and kidney injury don't sound like the same thing to me.

Of course, I know nothing. But kidney disease and kidney injury sound like two different things. I agree. I think it was a combination of both. I think she got unfortunately hit to the brain where you see all these brain bleeds and then she was possibly maybe been suffocated because there is some subconjunctival hemorrhage in the eyes. Hey, doc, slow down. Slow down. Sorry. Sorry. Subconjunctival hemorrhages. Is that the petechiae in the eye? Is that what that is? Yes, ma'am. The little bitty blood vessels that can just pop if you have high blood pressure or if you bend over or for all sorts of reasons.

OK, which is also a sign of asphyxiation. Hey, let me think this through. Dr. Castro, where I'm always amazed when I get reminded of where various body parts are. Like your pancreas, Jackie, is actually right in your chest. I thought it was down in your stomach somewhere. I'm using these anatomical terms very loosely, Dr. Castro, so don't get cray on me. But where's the kidney exactly on your body? If I touched my body, where would I touch the kidney? Where's the kidney exactly on your body if i touched if i touched my body where would i touch it the kidney

where's the kidney yeah so reach to your right and left underneath your rib cage in the back and right there's roughly where you'll see the kidney okay all right now to jalezia croome chief communication officer for prevent child abuse america I need you now, Ms. Crome. Tell me, what demon from hell would kick a two-year-old child where, Dr. Castro just indicated, like put your hands on your hips and where your ring finger and your index finger are, fingers are, that's where your kidneys are, from what I just heard. Who would kick a child or beat a child right there until her kidney was injured? You know, excuse me, Nancy, this is unfortunately, you know, one of the more severe cases that I've heard at a really really long time what we do know is that the majority of abuse that occurs in the United States

is actually neglect but this right here obviously has ties to what I heard before was power right and so if you start thinking about what someone else's trauma is and this is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. This is simply an opportunity to discuss prevention, right? So that's really the space that I'm here to talk about it today, where it's what happened to this family? What happened to these children long before this situation occurred and what are some things that we as the community should be looking out for to prevent

this from happening in the first place. So we all know about adverse childhood experiences and how that can impact parents and caregivers who eventually have families to look out for. If they've not addressed the challenges and the adverse childhood experiences that they've had before, then that's what causes the environment for these types of things to happen. Not necessarily that they are demons or that they don't love their children, but something has gone completely wrong and they've not received the resources that are needed up front to prevent these types of issues from happening.

But it is devastating. Jalasia Crew, from what I'm getting from you, the people that kicked this child in the kidney, I think, that starved her dead, that bind her with duct tape, according to you, have had, quote, adverse, end quote, experiences in their childhood that they haven't resolved. Is that right? I don't know the full story, so I will say once we go further down, the question to ask, I won't say definitively, but the question to at least ask is to start there. What has gone wrong? Just so you know, I don't give a flying fig, and I'm substituting fig because of quick cursing from my twins.

I don't care what happened to them. Don't care. If something did happen to them, fine. And the statute hadn't run, I'll prosecute their abuser. But there is no excuse for what has been done to this child. No excuse. I don't care about anything other than what happened to this two-year-old girl. And I can't even tell you her name because that's confidential. But I know this didn't happen overnight because this child was starved.

Back to you, Dr. Castro. How long does it take for a child to end up near death of starvation? You know, honestly, with a child, they have a high metabolism. So it's different from you and I to have more reserves. So honestly, if I had to guesstimate, I would say within two weeks. Two weeks.

You know what? Two weeks at the minimum. Two weeks. And you want to tell me this is their first time at the rodeo? B.S. Shelnut. Shelnut, listen,

I know you're a defense lawyer now, but try to think back to the good times when you were with Metro Major Case for 27 years. If this child has been starved at the least for two weeks, two weeks to the point where she's about to die, this isn't the first time they've abused or starved to die. This isn't the first time they've abused or starved this child. This is not the first time she's been duct taped. Get real, Shalna. I know you're now a prominent defense attorney at ShalnaLawFirm.com, but just speak the truth. Okay. You're not getting paid your big retainer fees to represent all your crack dealers and your killers and your molesters. Just tell me the truth just this time. Oh, well, it is a hundred percent certainty that this is not a new situation. This is a situation that has gone on for some time. This little girl

has likely endured abuse through much of her lifetime, but certainly the recent past. Now, I agree with you 100%. This isn't new news around that place. Guys, there's more. Take a listen. And the first thing I want you to notice is that it took CPS, may they all rot in hell too. Of course, I believe many of them

are guided from the goodness of their heart, but somehow children keep ending up dead under their watch. They wait two days, two days with other children in the home, by the way. They wait two days to amble on over. Take a listen. Two days later, Child Protective Services responds to the apartment and meets with the adults and other children living in the apartment. The biological mother of the two-year-old girl lives in another state and left her daughter in the care of the child's 27-year-old cousin, Tanisha Deshay Perkins. Perkins claims the other children living in the apartment often tie up the toddler and themselves. Further investigation reveals that Perkins' boyfriend, 23-year-old Kenry Fluker,

and the toddler's 17-year-old aunt, Maya Jahar Bro Magruder, all live in the apartment with five other children. The other children appear to be in good health. You know who this is reminding me of? The so-called influencer with millions of followers, Ruby Frankie, who did her bizarre This Is How to Raise Your Child podcast, and people actually bought into it. Eight million people were listening to this woman. Sounds like her, because when she was finally caught, she tried to blame her own children, claiming they were into porn as young as three years old.

Really, woman? Shut up. Not only that, but the duct tape rears its ugly head. Take a listen to our cut 14 about the star's children. All right, I'm on the address of your emergency. Okay, and the phone number you're calling from. Tell me exactly what's happened. I just had a 12 year old boy show up here at my front door asking for help. And he's, uh, said he had just came from a neighbor's house and we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house. He's emaciated. He's got

tape around his legs. He's hungry and he's thirsty. Okay. Is your door locked? No, I'm sitting outside with him on the front patio. And he asked us to call the police. So he's very afraid. He's 12 years old. The caller, the male caller, actually breaks down in tears describing how emaciated the boy is and how he's got duct tape on each ankle and wrists and covered in wounds. Back to you, Dr. Castro. When you keep duct taping someone, they ultimately get sores and wounds where the skin gets torn away from the duct tape. Isn't that true? Yes, ma'am.

And then we have a natural barrier, which is our skin. And when you break that skin, even through duct tape, you're going to introduce infection. So this is what we've got. The dishwasher repairman goes in. He finds his child hiding under a blanket. I don't know why she's under the blanket, starving near death and covered in duct tape. This is what we learned from the other children that Child Protective Services, aka DFACS, they just decided to let the other children stay there for a couple of days, just test that out. This is what we learned from them. Listen. The other children in the home paint a grim picture. The other children say the girl sleeps on the floor and regularly removes the tape from her arms, legs, and mouth.

The toddler gets popped when she removes the tape, and a lock has been put on the refrigerator to prevent the little one from accessing food. ABC 13 reports during an interview with investigators, Perkins' boyfriend tells police he has never seen the toddler's ankles being taped, just her hands. Flukers said the girl would not eat when given food, but would then sneak food from the refrigerator, trash can and pantry and that her hands were bound to prevent her from doing so. And more from Sydney Sumner. Six year old twins tell police they have seen Perkins and Kenry Fluker duct tape the two year old because she wastes food.

One of the twins tells investigators the toddler gets popped if she removes the duct tape and that Perkins and Fluker allegedly use a belt to whoop the little girl. But their mother instructed them to tell anyone who asks about the duct tape that she and her twin brother had been wrapping each other up. So like Ruby Frankie claiming a three-year-old was into porn, you have, according to these children, who I find to be some of the best witnesses in all cases. Many people argue they can't recount what has happened, but I counter that with the theory that they don't have the wherewithal to lie as well as adults. They lack the cunning. So this is what I'm gathering from what two six-year-old twins tell us,

that the little two-year-old gets beaten with a belt if she, quote, wastes food, and that the two little six-year-old twins were instructed to lie, claiming that, if asked, that the little girl and the others would play with duct tape and wrap each other up. Okay, joining me right now, Jason Jensen out of Salt Lake, private investigator, owner of Jensen Private Investigations and co-founder of the Cold Case Coalition. You can find Jason at JensenPrivateInvestigations.com. Jason, I love and loved putting child witnesses on the stand. I never like to put a child on the stand that has been a victim, but I would do what I had to do to put the devil in jail. You can count on that.

And another thing, Jensen, while I believe it is traumatic to put a child on the stand, and I don't like that, I think years on, that child will know somebody, if not their own parents, somebody took up for them and somebody put the bad guys behind bars for them. And yes, it comes at a price. The price is them having to testify. Jason Jensen, the first thing I would do is put these children on camera, video their statements, and nail it down. I don't think that they're lying. I don't think children normally have the wherewithal to lie the way parents do. You know, Nancy, you're right about that. I mean, children are resilient. If you put them in that kind of a spooky environment where they're not comfortable, put on the stand in a room with an investigator for an interview, it's temporary. They get over it. Usually I see in the CJC videos, they sigh relief when they get to leave. They got whatever's on their mind out in the open and they can go on.

So, you know, they make the best witnesses. I'm just thinking about how I would prove this case, how I'd marshal the evidence. Now, what about the bio mom just passing the little girl off to a relative and literally leaving the state? Take a listen. The mother of the abused toddler admitted to relinquishing care and custody and control of her daughter to Tanisha Perkins a few months before. KHOU reports Kenry Fluker confirmed the girl had been living there a few months. Fluker tells police the toddler's 17-year-old aunt, Maya Jahar Bro Magruder, moved in with them about the same time. Fluker blames the abuse and neglect of the toddler on Perkins and Magruder. Back to

Nicole Parton, I want to learn more about why this two-year-old girl was even in that apartment. Who was supposed to be taking care of her? Her biological mother had said she couldn't care for her, didn't want her anymore, and had left her in the care of her cousin, who is Tanisha Perkins, the 27-year-old living in the home. The bio mom had moved on with her life, moved to another state, gotten a job somewhere else, and had relinquished all rights and responsibilities of her daughter, leaving her in the care of this 27-year-old. I want to go now to Jalazia Croom, joining us, Chief Communication Officer, Prevent Child Abuse America. Jalazia, thank you for being with us. Got a question for you. I can count three adults living in this home. How can one or two of them stand by and do nothing when they see the third adult abusing the child?

Doesn't that make them all part of it? You know, that's correct. They are all standing around. They all do have a responsibility to this child, to this defenseless child. And my concern, as I said before, is that none of these people in this household have the resources that they need to make this right, to have fixed it. And I'm not saying, again, that this is where we should give a flying fig as far as what comes out. Hey, hey, Jalacia, what does that mean? They don't have the resources they need. This is abuse. This is plain old mean, hateful, evil abuse

straight from hell. What resource do they need to know they're not supposed to duct tape a baby and withhold food till she starves? They should definitely know that. But if they grew up watching the same thing, what about this two-year-old that almost died? What's going to happen to her when she grows up and she's never told and never given the tools to be a better parent herself when she grows up? The cycle continues. Well, I know that. I'm talking about this case and these adults that did this. And they're all part of it.

They're all part of it. I 100% agree. 100% agree. I don't know what was going through their minds and I don't know why they felt that this was the right the right way to discipline a child but this child almost died and they should they should i mean do you really think that they need some kind of education uh in parenting to know you're not supposed to starve a two-year-old and put a put a padlock on the on the fridge this should have happened long, but if they were abused, what if they were abused when they were young?

This is a mental health issue as well. So the cycle continues because no one gives a flying fig when they've been hurt. I've got a funny feeling you're going to keep saying flying fig. Because you didn't give me a chance to really explain what was going on because at the end of the day, it doesn't mean that they don't deserve punishment, but we got to look at what has happened to cause. What in the world would make a child think that this is the way that they're supposed to discipline a younger person in their family? Well, you said this is what would make a child think this was okay. These aren't children're adults right these are adults that that for whatever

reason believe this is the way but at one point they were children and so for whatever reason they didn't get the tools to understand this is not how you deal with your family this is not what you're doing is continuing the cycle so someone next name hey nancy this is james yeah i was just gonna ask you james because that sounds a lot like the state having to determine motive that I'm supposed to say, oh, pitiful them. They were abused. And I don't have any evidence they were abused at all. But that's irrelevant in a criminal case, Shelnut. It doesn't matter. I agree 100 percent. It's not lost on me what she is saying that that past past abuses can manifest themselves into that abused person's conduct in current times. Well, she's right. She's right. I hear her, and she's right about that. But I still don't care.

No, I don't either. The resources they had were their hands and their feet. They could have picked that child up and left with that child, taken that child to the police station. They could have called 911. They could have unwrapped that child from that duct tape at any given time. It doesn't matter what resources were there or were not there. It doesn't matter what parenting skills they have. It's hard for me to believe that they did not have a basic common sense or basic morality of right and wrong to understand that this child is being abused and is likely going to die if I don't do something about it. To Dr. John Delatore, psychologist and mediator, Dr. Delatore, you know, have you ever been to the zoo? Yes. Okay. Then you've been to the snake house,

right? Yeah. I go in the snake house and I hate snakes, but I look at them because you know what, there's a big thick piece of glass between me and them. So in this case, I'm intrigued. I'm disgusted. Number one, I'm angry. Number two, I don't want justice. A nice long life behind bars sentence would start making me feel a little bit better. Dr. Delatori, one thing I'm fascinated with, and I don't understand it, is the withholding of food, using food as a way to abuse a child. I mean, it's evil, but yet cunning. I've heard of it, but I'm trying to figure out who would even think to do that to put a padlock on the refrigerator well so when it comes to the food itself right food is both a life-giving thing right we all need food just as much as we need water right and so I think what happens is they see that this child is not listening to them.

The child isn't doing whatever it is that they want them to do. And so there is an aspect of suffering that must accompany this not listening to me. Right? Because they're not seeing the two-year-old as being someone who clearly doesn't understand the world and clearly needs to be instructed. They're seeing the two-year-old as someone that's just not following the instructions that they are trying to give it. And because of that, particularly this not wasting food, and wasting food is is is something that yeah you shouldn't waste food however two-year-old doesn't understand that but the two-year-old does understand when you don't have access to it the two-year-old does understand when it feels bad because it's hungry because

it's starving because its body is literally eating itself in order to get the nutrients it needs in order to survive. And they watch this happen. The adults watch this happen and they think they are teaching a lesson, but that's not what is happening here. That's not, they aren't teaching a lesson. They've confused what they thought they were doing with being something that was actually necessary. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

You know, Dr. Dolatori, I don't understand this. I was talking to Jalasia Croom earlier at Prevent Child Abuse America. The adults standing by watching it happen, for all I know, they all took part in it. There's also the unusual factor, which I've seen in so many cases, including cases I prosecuted, where there are several children, but one child is picked out to be mistreated the most. In the cases I've seen till the child dies. But it reminds me of the Holocaust where the guards, the minders stood by and let the abuse and murder of millions of Jews happen. And they go, oh, well, you know, I was just following orders like that. It makes it okay. It happened. It's not okay. And they are just as responsible as the others.

And I'm trying to understand how in your mind you think it's okay to stand by and watch hatred take over and abuse and murder occur. James Shelnut, high profile lawyer out of Alabama, they all need to be charged with felony child abuse and, I think, attempted murder. I think this is attempted murder. The child was in 24, 36 hours of death. That's attempted murder. Oh, absolutely.

You know, how do you lay your head down at night knowing that there's a child duct-taped in the living room, a two-year-old little girl? How pathetic of a person do you have to be? I will tell you, when I was a detective in investigative cases like that, I was always very professional, played it by the book. But I'll tell you this, when I go to serve that warrant, it would hurt my feelings one bit if I had to assist you in that pair of handcuffs because you resisted. Because that's the type of demon, as you said earlier, that is the type of person who is a just horrible drain, a horrible menace to society. And I have nothing for him.

It's pitiful. Guys, if you had not heard of that famous influencer, Ruby Frankie, I know you've heard of top mom Casey Anthony and her murdered daughter, Kelly. Take a listen to our cut 19. Duct tape again. Dr. Jan Garavaglia, chief medical officer, said in court that Kaylee Anthony had been put in two plastic bags, then put in a canvas bag, then thrown behind a rotting log a couple blocks from her house. According to the doctor, there were three overlapping pieces of duct tape over the lower aspect of the face and that these pieces of duct tape were the smoking gun that something terrible happened to Kaylee Anthony. In other words, it was no accident that Kaylee died.

And this case, the case in chief, reminds me of a horrific case we covered out of Arizona. Take a listen in our cut 21 to Chief John Mesa. Mesa Police received a phone call for call to service to the apartment at 655 South Mesa Drive. When officers arrived back to the scene, they eventually made contact with our suspect. They entered the apartment and they located a three-year-old child inside a black trash bag. The child had duct tape over her mouth, around her arms, her hands and legs. The child was in terrible condition.

She was covered in feces, wearing a diaper and T-shirt. And the officers were able to remove the duct tape and the child was transported to the hospital immediately. And more from Chief Mazur. The suspect was interviewed by detectives and confessed to duct taping the child and he said that he did it because he wanted to have sexual encounters with other people that he met online and wanted to keep her quiet. He stated the child belonged to a friend he has known for a short time. He later identified the mother as ******. The suspect was babysitting the child while ****** worked, but admitted to leaving the child for several hours in the baby so he could go have sex with other people.

Okay. And he actually gave that statement. I'm very confused. Let me go back to Jalasia Croom joining us from Prevent Child Abuse America. You know, isn't it the most bizarre thing when child abusers give their reasoning and it's completely incriminating, but they think it explains it all the way? And Grace, like you all have said, unfortunately there's no excuse. And there's not going to be anything that one can say to make it right or make the circumstances any less egregious it's so sad i mean it's really

sad and and and like i said you know it's unfortunate that we can't have some sort of mirror looking glass mirror to see what's going to come what's going to happen we don't know we don't know why these things are happening there's's no science to explain exactly why. But at the end of the day, yeah, trying to come up with reasons after the fact, no, let's get ahead of it, prevent it. But I fully agree. And I hear what you all are saying. And no, hearing these stories or hearing people try to defend it, indefensible. Yeah, I think that's what they're doing. They're trying to rationalize it. Once everybody says, hey, this is horrible.

You did a bad thing. Then they start talking. Jason Jensen joining me, private investigator. You can find him at JensenPrivateInvestigations.com. Weigh in, Jason. You know, Nancy, you know as well as anyone here on this panel that there is no substitute Way in, Jason. on the street and you see a stray dog. Stray dogs are foraging for food. They knock down trash cans and things of that nature. That's what they're mad about this little girl doing because they deny her food. And then she goes ventures off, try to feed herself, and she gets punished for it.

That's just wrong. There's no compassion. Another bizarre fact, Jason, is how often neighbors and employees find the children in these horrible circumstances that the abuser, I guess, thinks it's OK and they don't care if people find out. Take a listen to this story out of Houston, Hour Cut 24. A maintenance worker at a Houston apartment complex tasked with checking out a leaky air conditioner on an apartment finds a boy with duct tape over his eyes and around his hands. The worker calls the apartment manager, who then calls police. Officers arrive to check out the story of the six-year-old with duct tape and find a one-year-old girl suffering from burns to her hands as well. Interviewing the four women who live in the home with the children, police find out that Estefany Garcia and Emily Zuniga say they duct tape the boy's hands because he had

been fighting at school and they were trying to control the boy. Coming up with lies and stories, rationalizing what they have been doing. I've got a whole file of adults using duct tape on children, but I want to go back to Nicole Parton, who is really an angel on earth. She's not just CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. She has 10 children, many of whom she has fostered and adopted. And we were talking, Nicole, about how very often you'll see abusive parents single out one child and end up, like, killing the child, while the others seem to be fine.

Yes. And this hits home for me. My now adopted daughter, she's 10 now, but at the age of three, her birth mother had targeted her. She had other siblings who were well cared for, but for whatever reason, the mother targeted my daughter. She abused her. She neglected her, wouldn't feed her, and finally just abandoned her, dropped her off at the my daughter. She abused her. She neglected her, wouldn't feed her, and finally just abandoned her, dropped her off at the Miami airport. She was three years old, just left her there. My daughter still remembers being treated horribly, being left, having food withheld from her. She had scars on her arms where she was burned and taped. She too was taped up to keep her from finding food. But fortunately, today she's loved and she's She too was taped up to keep her from finding food.

But fortunately, today she's loved and she's cared for and she's mine. This little girl, we believe, weighed 17 to 19 pounds at age two. Nicole, what's next in this case? We wait. They're being held on this half million dollar bond between the three of them. These charges are against them and hopefully justice will be served. They can blame each other, but at the end of the day, they're all responsible. They all knew what was happening in that home. Kenry Flukers, Deshae Perkins and Maya McGruder rot in hell after a nice long stint

behind bars. I imagine you out on the yard looking up at the barbed wire and I hope you remember why you're there. Goodbye, folks. This is an iHeart Podcast.