Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Does ’13 Reasons’ Netflix series glorify teen suicide?

Episode Date: May 22, 2017

A Florida mom blames “13 Reasons” for contributing to suicidal thoughts in her teen son’s mind, leading to his need for psychiatric care. She criticizes a teacher for suggesting students watch the Netflix series without parents knowing. In this episode, Nancy Grace talks with psychologist Caryn Stark about what parents should know and do to prevent teen suicide. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. why my life ended. The fictional series features a high school girl who sends tapes to students and a teacher explaining how they wronged her. If you're listening to this tape, you're one of the reasons why. Everyone is just so nice until they drive you to kill yourself. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. My mother says a teacher gave her 15-year-old son the idea to watch a Netflix series she feels contributed to some of his mental health issues. One of the teachers was discussing the series in class and basically said, you know, I think it's a pretty good show. You guys should check it out. Days later, her son was committed for psychiatric evaluation. He was creating a 13 reasons why list told us he was having thoughts of suicide that he He didn't want to live? A little boy didn't want to live?

A mother out of Florida now saying a teacher prompted a discussion of the show that her little boy watched it and wrote down 13 reasons he did not want to live. Now, this Netflix show is about a girl who records 13 Reasons Why She Committed Suicide. Oh, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. The mom, who does not want us to identify her, says the teacher at Clay High School in Green Cove Springs, Florida, told his students, including her son, to check out the Netflix hit show 13 Reasons Why. So her son goes and watches the show, watches the series, and immediately started to self-harm.

He wrote down 13 reasons why he wanted to commit suicide. The mom finds the note, sends him to a psychiatrist to be evaluated. And we're learning this from a News 4 Jax report. And she is quoting, When I went to talk to the school about it after he had been released from the Mental Health Resource Center, I had the written notes that he had made. He was creating 13 reasons why he did not want to live. He created the 13 reasons why list and told us that he was having thoughts of suicide. I'm beside myself.

She says the teacher at Clay County School District instigated the whole thing. Of course, the school disagrees. They say the students brought up the show and told their teacher to watch it, and then he discussed the series with them afterwards, but did not discuss or encourage an in-depth conversation. Okay, Alan, what do we know? The question is, did the teacher bring this up in class as part of a planned curriculum? The apparent answer is no. The teacher is telling

the principal that she only discussed it when students in the class started bringing it up and said, let's talk about it. So I think the teacher wasn't exactly prepared because she was caught by surprise. And what do you do? Do you tell them, no, we're not going to talk about this? Or are you brave? And you dive into it and unfortunately not think it through enough not have enough support to deal with it well how about saying something like suicide is never well i'm assuming that she did say that i mean that's a natural thing not according to this not according to this but we don't know the truth of it. The mom says one thing, the teacher says another. But let's talk about the show.

It's produced by Selena Gomez, former Disney cutie. It's gotten all kinds of positive reviews, but it's also gotten a lot of criticism. The show, 13 Reasons Why, is about Clay Jensen. Before Clay's death, she recorded the reason she decided to kill herself on a cassette tape. And she sent the reasons to the 13 people she believes caused her to commit suicide. Wow. I don't think this is the kind of content for children. I don't think children should be learning about suicide, Alan. Well, the kids brought it up in class if what I'm seeing is true.

And how do you deal with that? We need an expert to talk about this. This is really heavy stuff because you bring and put something in their head or reinforce something that's already in their head. I think it's pretty dangerous. Well, I can tell you this much. The first thing you do when you're talking to children, if somebody brings up suicide, you would say immediately, that is never an alternative. There are ways to make your life or your problem better. In fact, with a lot of suicide victims, it is believed that if they had waited just 24 to 48 hours, they would have not committed suicide. Their feelings at that moment would have changed. It would have gotten better or else they would have realized they did not want to take their life and hurt all of their family and friends if they could have

just waited. That's what suicide hotlines do. They keep you on the line and talk you through it till you can get past that horrible, horrible moment of depression when you see no other alternative. Plus, I think the moment that was brought up, all the parents should have been alerted. I don't think anyone should have been encouraged to watch the show if that's even what happened. Alan, I think we should get the professional Karen Stark on the line. I want to thank our expert joining us this morning, Karen Stark. Karen, a Florida mom says a teacher prompted a discussion of the new Netflix series, 13 Reasons Why, which is about a kid that commits suicide.

It is executive produced by Selena Gomez. Now, this child did not commit suicide, but is having suicidal thoughts and has created a list of 13 reasons why the child does not want to live. The kid apparently binged on it and watched several series and now has come up with a list of 13 reasons why the child doesn't want to live anymore. You know, Karen, it's my understanding, having dealt with suicidal people, but I'm just a JD, you're the shrink, that if you can get them past that horrible moment, those hours or days that they are contemplating suicide, that their mood can change and then they realize it would have been a horrible idea if you could

just get them through that horrible moment. I think that you're absolutely correct, Nancy, that if you can get them beyond that. But I also want to say that you need to look for the symptoms and that teenagers are particularly susceptible to the idea of suicide. They don't really have an idea about what death is, any kind of a reality surrounding that. And the show in particular, because I watched it, kind of glorifies suicide in the way that it handles it. Karen, tell me about the show. Unhappy to Nancy. It doesn't really show you the pain that she went through

or give you enough focus on the sadness, the anger, all the repercussions of suicide. It makes it look like this unpopular girl suddenly became popular and people thought of her a new way after she killed herself. And so she gets revenge on all the people around her. Okay, wait a minute. Wait a minute. She becomes popular after the suicide? Yes, people have regrets and they get together to talk about her.

How awful! And I know they didn't mean to do that. You know, they meant to really focus on bullying and the susceptibility of teenagers to being ignored. But they didn't handle it in a way that really shows that this is not a good idea, that you don't want to do this. And for kids who are depressed and already feeling bad about themselves, they're too susceptible to watch something like that. Guys, I just want to put it out there right now. National Suicide Prevention Line 1-800-273-8255. 800-273-8255. Karen, you and I have discussed this many, many times. And I recall in the horrible, horrible months and really years following my fiancé's murder, I just wanted to go and be with him.

The physical act of killing myself really didn't play into my thinking. The horrible angst it would have caused my parents and my friends and Keith's parents. I didn't even take that into consideration. And I think that many, many thinking people have thought about suicide. And in my mind, it was more about being back with Keith. It wasn't about, oh, I'm ending my earthly life. And you're so in it, you can't see your way out of it. But I look back on those dark, dark times following his murder. And I think I would not have had the twins. I would never have known you and Alan.

It would have devastated my parents. I would never have married and have the happy blessings that I have now. And when you're in it, Karen, you can't see past. It's like you're in a dark, I don't know, like a bubble you can't get out of. And I feel like this is just overwhelming. I was an adult. a dark, I don't know, like a bubble you can't get out of. And I feel like this is just overwhelming. I was an adult, you know, not much of an adult in my 20. A young adult, yeah.

I can't imagine children dealing with that, Karen Stark. They can't, Nancy. I mean, and what you're describing in your particular instance is extreme trauma where you really need tremendous support and help to get through that. That darkness you're talking about is a deep depression that you can't see out of. That's why it's depression. I mean, it's really, there's no light that you could see at the end of the tunnel and no sense that the world makes it hard to be happy when you're in that place and Karen the thing is there's no reason like someone would could say well why are you depressed and the answer is I don't know it's like it can be so palpable. It's like a presence in the room with you. It's overwhelming.

You know. And that is what these children are suffering. Because in their world. You know. I look back at my high school bullies. They're all horrible. I might add. Okay.

But I mean now they're like nothing. I don't even think of them but in these children's minds that's their whole world and that's right their world is very small Karen I'm just beside myself thinking of a child a child committing suicide I mean one out of five I'm sure that was not Netflix's intention they may not even realize children are getting on Netflix and watching it. I think that they really, in a way, they geared it for children. They were hoping that it was a positive message about bullying and depression and exclusion. Oh, okay.

I didn't realize that. She was somebody who had just moved. All of these are signs. You have to be very careful when it comes to certain kids to understand. Karen, I know that you're in the middle of one of your seminars. Please just give the listeners some advice because, okay, don't get me started, Karen. I'm going to blame you because I'm now thinking about my beautiful twins. And they have bullies, girl bullies and boy bullies, I'm now thinking about my beautiful twins and they have bullies girl

bullies and boy bullies I'm sad to say and the thought that this could overtake them I mean I've talked to you about this many times about the girl bullies and the boy bullies and for Pete's sake they're only in the third grade but the thought that this could? I mean, oh, it's just breaking my heart. Give me some advice for parents. I'm all ears, Karen Stark. Absolutely, Nancy. I'm happy to do that, and that was what I wanted to do. So you have to check it at whether your kids seem to be depressed,

and you have to not be afraid to bring up this subject. As a matter of fact, it's important to bring it up. If you bring it up, it doesn't mean you're going to put an idea in their head. You're going to find out whether they are feeling that depressed or down. If they're talking about dying, right, disappearing, jumping, shooting oneself, that's something to look out for. If there's been a recent loss, like what you went through, Nancy, through death, divorce, you have to pay attention to that.

If their self-confidence or esteem seems affected, if there's a change in their personality, they seem sad and withdrawn, and they were not like that before. If there's a change in their behavior, where they're not getting along in school or they can't concentrate on their schoolwork, change in sleeping patterns, you know, if they're insomniac or if they're sleeping all the time, a change in eating habits, if there's a feeling that they're going to harm themselves, if their esteem is very low, if you find that they have the kind of thoughts like everybody would be better off if they were not around,

and most importantly, if there's no hope for the future, which is what you were describing, if you believe that things will never get better, and when you are a teenager and a child, you don't have that idea that you talked about, that someday you'll be married, you'll have children, it will be very different. It won't affect you the way it does at this age. And those are the things that parents really need to address and not be afraid to do it. If you are worried, get help for your child. Make them talk about it.

Talk with somebody. As much support as you possibly can. It's a serious thing. That's why we talk about it. Karen, I know this is totally unprofessional, but I love you. You're just so wonderful, and you have been through so many personal battles and you're just a hero to me and everything you say is correct on this and I just want to thank you for being with us and on this special topic because honestly Karen you know how I am and have a box of Kleenex beside me for every commercial break we ever had I can hardly stand it and you know these parents am and have a box of Kleenex beside me for every commercial break we ever had.

I can hardly stand it. And, you know, these parents love their children just as much as I love mine. And just the thought of it, the thought of them doing this, I mean, I'm going to do anything I can to prevent that. And you have me to turn to, Nancy. So this is for parents. They have to have somebody, right? Yeah, I mean, parents, I mean, I'm just a lawyer for Pete's sake. You know, I'm a too, Nancy. So this is for parents. They have to have somebody, right? Yeah, I mean, parents, I mean, I'm just a lawyer for Pete's sake. You know, I'm a crime victim that's trying to make a change in the world. I don't know all of the intricacies of therapy and how the mind works and psychology.

Let me give this number again, the National Suicide Prevention Line. If you have any concern about yourself or your children, 1-800-273-8255. Everyone, thank you for being with us today. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.