Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Does RING-DOORBELL-cam capture killers who target teen girl in bedroom?

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

A 16-year-old girl spends what should be a typical day hanging out with a friend in her bedroom. It wasn't. The family's Ring doorbell captures the moment a home invasion happens with 5 suspects coming in the home.Madison Harris was shot and later died at the hospital.Joining Nancy Grace today: Mark Tate- Attorney , Savannah GA,  www.tatelawgroup.com   Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Bobby Chacon - Former Special Agent FBI, screenwriter on "Criminal Minds"  Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist  Alexis Terezchuck - Investigative Journalist CrimeOnline  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Big news. Please tune in to Fox Nation. Go to Google and plug in Fox Nation for an intensive investigation of the truth behind Tiger King, the so-called Tiger King,

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I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A 16-year-old girl dead? That's only four years older than my twins, John, David, and Lucy. And you think in your own home your child is safe? Well, this small Mississippi town is learning another thing. First of all, take a listen to WLOX News reporter John Fitzhugh. She was a beautiful young lady, completely innocent of all these things that have happened to her.

She loved her music and she loved her friends. She had a big laugh, always enjoyed herself wherever she was. Her love of music is one of the things that her cousin said he will always remember. We would do this thing where we'd harmonize and it was kind of funny because we'd all harmonize at the same time and we'd sing a song called Hey There Delilah and you know it just kind of like brought us together. Another of Madison's passions was cooking. She loved to cook. She loved her spices. Just recently she fixed me a steak and without even thinking about it I added pepper to it. That was a mistake because she always had it spiced up. Madison had told her grandparents she

wanted to be an astronomer so they bought her a telescope for Christmas. But they will never get to see if that was where her passion would take her. She was a hard worker. Anything she set her mind to, she was a hard worker at it. Gave her all. You are hearing our friend at WLOX News, John Ficciu, speaking with family members of this young girl, Madison Harris. How does a girl interested in music and cooking and astronomy end up dead in her own home? It's almost too much to take in when you think of it this way. This young girl just turned 16 years old. A real homebody, even being homeschooled.

With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Derek Ellington, a certified fraud examiner. Mark Tate, renowned attorney out of Savannah. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Bobby Chacon, former special agent, FBI, screenwriter for Criminal Minds, Karen Stark, New York psychologist joining us. She's at KarenStark.com, but straight to Alexis Tereschuk joining us, InvestigativeReporterCrimeOnline.com. This girl, Madison Harris, 16 years old, sounds like every parent's dream. You know, Alexis, just last night, since all of us have

been on lockdown, Lucy is baking. I wish I could teach her how to cook supper. But she's baking. She makes banana bread. She makes cake in a cup. She makes all sorts of simple recipes. And then the other night, Alexis, she got an apple. Wait for it. And she peeled it.

She just cut it just so. Not peeled it she just cut it just so not peeled it she cut it to where it looked a thin slice of apple with a tip of red peel on the edge and she made a flower out of it like 12 flowers and then drizzle caramel sauce on them. She's 12. And to think that this girl, Madison, was all into cooking and baking and surprising people with her recipes. She's dead. She didn't even leave her home. Alexis did not even leave her home. Oh, hold on, Alexis. Let me go to Karen Stark. Karen Stark dot com. Renowned psychologist joining us out of the New York jurisdiction. Karen, we think of people getting gunned down on the street in a dope deal or they're mugged or they're killed by a DUI. But how often do you think of a little girl getting killed in her own home? It's so, it's sad and outrageous, Nancy. Think about the parents. Think

about her family that are still there, still in that home. They lost it, used to a child dying before you. And here we are in the situation. It happened in her own home where she's supposed to be safe and protected. And apparently what we're learning is a lot of evidence was captured on a ring doorbell. Derek Ellington, for Christmas, I think it was two years ago, or birthday, birthday, I gave my husband ring doorbells. I kind of always give him something that I want for the house. And so my husband ring doorbells. I kind of always give him something that I want for the house. So he got ring doorbells. They're incredible. I love them because when the doorbell rings, the picture, a video actually of who is at the door pops up on your phone. And when I have to travel for work I can actually log into the

ring and see what's happening at the doors how does the ring technology work well and they are they're an incredible tool and they can be an incredible source of comfort and security when you have them around your house and and basically like any type of smart device it's always watching it's It's always monitoring. And when there's a motion detected or something like that, it can alert you. It records the video of whatever's going on and an website that you can access. And then when there is a problem, you can go back and pull that video and law enforcement or investigators like us can use it. It's an incredibly powerful tool. It's incredibly comforting, but it's not without challenges.

It's not without security questions and things like that. So it's kind of a double-edged sword, as you'd say. Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What we are learning is that in this small town, Mississippi town, it's Biloxi, there was a home invasion while the little girl is at home. And I just finished writing, Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave. And one of the chapters that got to be very extensive was about being safe in your own home, is about being safe in your own home.

And it includes home invasions. And we don't expect it to happen, especially when you're in a rural or suburban neighborhood. A home invasion, even when the doors are locked. I'm understanding that, Alexis Tereschuk, this was a home invasion, even when the doors are locked. I'm understanding that Alexis Tereshchuk, this was a home invasion and the 16-year-old girl was home. Let me ask you that narrow question. Is that what happened? Yes, that is exactly what happened. To Bobby Chacon, former special agent, FBI screenwriter, Criminal Minds, a lot of people don't think a home invasion is going to happen in their neighborhood. But the examples I give in the book, Don't Be a Victim, are nice neighborhoods. One is down on

the panhandle with a huge family that I think they had a car lot. They had several businesses. I mean, it was a very low crime area. And I cited several other examples of home invasions, all in residential areas. They're more common, you know, if they're going to forcibly enter a home, that's a high risk activity. They're going to do it for a high payoff. And that means that they're going into homes that they feel have higher end electronics, higher end jewelry, things like that. And so, yeah, we do find home invasions happen typically in nicer neighborhoods, more expensive homes and things like that because it's a higher risk but also a higher reward. And that's what we think happened to Madison Harris, just 16 years old, shot dead in her grandmother's home, Biloxi, on a Monday afternoon. Broad daylight. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Did doorbell home security video show suspects leaving the home of a teenage girl following an alleged robbery turned murder? And this happens in broad daylight. Straight out to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott, you have seen literally thousands of crime scenes, as have I. You're a death investigator. Every crime scene you went to, unlike me, was a death, a murder. What do you think about a home invasion where a 16-year-old girl is shot dead in her grandma's

home? That's where she lived. I find that very unusual. It is, Nancy. And I think one of the things that really comes to mind is why would this level of force need to be used against a 16-year-old girl? I think that that is something that really goes to the heart of the matter here. Are we talking about an experienced criminal? I'm reflecting back what Bobby was saying just a moment ago, motivations for going into the home and this sort of thing. But, you know, would an experienced criminal actually go in and try to literally strong arm Rob at gunpoint, a 16 year old girl?

It sounds like there's more here than just simply, you know, something gone wrong. You're not kidding, Joe Scott. You are not kidding. Because think about it. I mean, you know, there's a really good example of this. Do you remember Belinda Temple in Texas who was, I guess, eight months pregnant, had one child. The husband was the football star and coach of the local football team. She ends up found, she's found cowering dead in the closet of the master bedroom and you think why if someone comes in to burgle to steal stuff why do you have to kill the witness because in my experience to mark tate you're the lawyer out of savannah typically when a burglar comes in and they realize somebody's home,

they leave. Right. They don't want to kill anybody. They don't want a shooting. They leave. That is my experience having handled, on the low end, 10,000 felonies for 10 years. I mean, burglars leave. Jump in, Mark. I don't believe, based upon what this crime sounds like and the way it's been described publicly on numerous occasions,

that the motivation was to go some pretty good security measures, such as bolting their windows closed and putting double-sided key-only deadbolts on their doors and putting up these cameras that, in fact, I think the prosecution is going to love here. Oh, yeah, because they totally tricked out the whole place. Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative journalist, a few weeks before the home invasion, there had apparently been a burglary. And let's follow up on what Mark Tate, lawyer out of Savannah, Georgia, has just said, that after that burglary, which they reported to the police,

they totally tricked out the house. What did they do to protect themselves? Well, they installed the ring camera. They installed it on a couple of doors. You can have it on wherever you want. It doesn't have to be just your front door. They put it on the carport as well, the door at the carport. They both, they got as well. And they put in the, as you said, the deadbolts, the double locks. So they were really trying to lock this house down because they were very afraid after the break-in and that they didn't feel like the people were finished. They felt like they were going to come back and they wanted to stop that. You know what's interesting and the psychopathy behind this, this home invasion that turned deadly, gunning down a 16-year-old little girl in the home?

It's my understanding, and Alexis, correct me if I'm wrong, that the dad was actually in the backyard raking leaves. This was on a Monday afternoon, broad daylight. Do I have my days right, Alexis Tereschuk? Yes, it was Monday. It was a Monday afternoon, broad daylight. Do I have my days right, Alexis Tereschuk? Yes, it was Monday. It was a Monday afternoon. It was 1.48 is when the police got the phone call. And dad was in the backyard.

And her friend, another friend was over. Bobby Chacon, former special agent FBI. I don't get it. And also, earlier, Joe Scott Morgan, I think it was, said the level of force used on a teen girl just for a robbery. Why do you have to kill her? And my theory, as it was in the Belinda Temple murder, was she's not raped. She's not sex assaulted. Nothing is stolen. She had to be killed because she knew the perpetrator.

What about that, Bobby Chacon? Well, that's my theory, too. I'm going to agree with you. And I think that one of her family members actually told this to the media. I think that when you see that one of the suspects went in about 30 minutes earlier and then four additional suspects came in. And within 10 seconds, he says, on the video of those four entering the house, the shots are heard on the ring doorbell.

So just like that, it doesn't seem like this was a targeted, premeditated act of going in there and shooting this young girl. What do you make of the the brazen nature of this? It's broad daylight and dad is right there in the backyard raking leaves. What about that, Joseph Scott Morgan? Yeah, I mean, the boldness that's associated with this, because obviously these individuals had to have an awareness that there were other people present at the home. What's the driver behind this psychologically where you've got people that would show up at, again, I have to emphasize this, a 16-year-old child's home with a firearm in hand. And not only that, they're apparently coming in force, Nancy. It's not just one person showing up at the house. So this gives us an indication that they came armed, they came

prepared for violence and to do violence to this little girl. With dad in the backyard raking leaves. You know, too, Karen Stark, that's something that sticks in my girl. With dad in the backyard raking leaves. You know, too, Karen Stark, that's something that sticks in my mind. It sticks in your mind, yeah. You know, I'm always attached to these little tidbits or fragments of a crime. Because I remember when my fiance was murdered, I waved goodbye to him that morning. And I went to school to take a statistics exam. And at the time he was murdered, I was in that exam. And this dad is going to forever remember I was just right outside raking leaves when my daughter was murdered inside.

And you turn it over and over in your mind trying to think, was there something I should have done? I could have done differently. And somehow this wouldn't have happened. And I know that's what that dad is thinking right now. Absolutely thinking that he should have been able to do something, Nancy. And that's what happens. Exactly what you're describing. You don't even worry. It's not just that you're saying you took an exam, but it was statistics. That kind of specific memory really has to do with trauma. You associate every single thing that happens. And it's very, very normal to blame yourself and think, even when it makes no sense, I should have been able to do something. I should have been able to help. And here he is. He's actually there right outside raking leaves,

and he will never get over the fact that that happened to him. I just hate it so much for the dad, for the family, because you think in your home that that's where your children are the safest. And you don't imagine that somehow, while you're right there at home, someone will invade your home and murder your child. Alexis Tereschuk, just a yes, no. Was Madison sex assaulted or was there actually a robbery? Did they actually take anything? She was not sex assaulted. It was so fast.

It was literally under a minute that these criminals came into, alleged criminals, came into the house and shot and killed her. And nothing was taken. And there go your two main motives for a burglary, an assault or a theft. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about the death of a 16-year-old little girl in her own home. Now, brace yourself. Take a listen to our friend at WLOX News. This is John Fitzhugh.

Waldeck said some of those charged were once considered friends. They were in our house, I thought, as friends a number of different times, yes. They just lived two or three houses down and across the street. But Waldeck said something had changed. We think they were involved in a burglary at the house two weeks ago. Of course, the police were called, and we were pressing charges against that first crime, and we're afraid that this may have been retaliation against us reporting their crime. After the burglary, Harris' family was worried about another break-in

and took special precautions. We screwed the window shut so they couldn't get in there. We put deadbolts on the doors so that they had to be locked with a key to get in or out, but the carport door was unlocked. We are talking about the death of a 16-year-old little girl. Is it true that the killers were her friends? Take a listen again to WLOX John Fitzhugh. Madison Harris had been living with her grandparents for four years after her parents had divorced.

James Waldeck, who was engaged to her grandmother, said the family is struggling with grief after the shooting that took Madison away from them. Waldeck said he learned something was wrong when his Ring doorbell app showed an ambulance at their home. He said the camera at the garage door revealed much more about what happened inside his home. Madison was here and her very good friend Paul

and her dad good friend Paul, and her dad was in the backyard raking leaves. And one girl came in, I saw on ring doorbell about a half hour before. And then according to my ring doorbell, four of them charged in an unlocked door here at the carport and within a matter of 10 seconds, the shooting and screaming,

and then them running out the door, being chased by Paul, her friend, and then her dad. You know, it's almost too much to take in. To Alexis Tereszczuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, so he doesn't realize anything is wrong, James Walczek, until he happens to look down in his ring and see an ambulance at his home. Exactly. That's overwhelming.

Tell me what you understand happened, Alexis. So Madison is home. She and her friend Paul are in the house. Dad is out in the backyard raking. It's a Monday afternoon. One of her friends comes over, another girl, a teenage girl. She comes in the house. A little while later, four other teens come in.

It doesn't trigger anything. The dad's not running inside or calling the police or anything. But then within 10 seconds of there now being five new friends in the house, they're screaming, they're shouting, and Madison is shot with a gun. And then these teens run out of the house. They're screaming, they're shouting, and Madison is shot with a gun. And then these teens run out of the house. And this is seen on the ring camera. The ring camera captures, it doesn't film forever and ever and ever, but when there is motion detected, it films for 30 seconds or a minute. And so it caught all this because it happened so quickly. And so Madison's friend actually calls 911.

He calls and says, please come. There's been a medical emergency. And the ambulance comes. And this is what her grandmother's boyfriend, fiance, sees on the camera. He lives there with them. And he sees that the ambulance is there. And then he realizes that something's happened.

So the police get there. The EMTs get there. They take Madison. They rush her to the hospital. And then it's there at the hospital. They're performing surgery on her, desperately trying to save her life. And it's at the hospital that she died. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State and death investigator.

What do we know about her injuries? Well, Nancy, this young girl was literally shot in the hip. And when people hear hip, they think that it's... It doesn't sound deadly. No, it doesn't. And people think that, well, that's just the upper leg. Listen... Femoral artery. Yeah, it's one of the most complex skeletal structures in the body. You've got all these odd shaped bones. We've got the joint where the actual femur goes in there body you've got all these odd shaped bones we've got the joint where the actual uh femur goes in there we've got uh the pelvis or the pelvic okay just got just got

this is not the indy 500 slow down brother what did you just say slow down i'm just a jd okay yeah start at the beginning what happened to her her? Well, she was shot. There was apparently some kind of altercation that went on in the room. Yeah, they home invaded and shot her. That's the altercation. She's minding her own business in her room. Yes. And apparently during during this altercation that's ongoing, one of the subjects was holding the firearm, the firearm discharge striking her in the hip. Now, as they try to get her to the hospital, she's obviously bleeding out. Wendy's, and I've seen this countless numbers of times, Nancy, with people that are shot in the pelvic area. When these rounds, these projectiles go through these odd structures, they literally fragment and shatter this bone and it splinters off in a variety of directions. But the bottom line is the bone bone and it splinters off in a variety of directions.

But the bottom line is the bone or the bullet splinters off. Both can both can. But particularly the bone, the bone literally becomes little bony shards or little fragments. OK, shrapnel almost, if you will. And it will pierce the little vessels that are just integrated throughout the pelvic girdle. And when the surgeon gets in there, Nancy, they have a devil of a time trying to determine the origin of the bleeding. They have to work like mad because all the while, can you imagine this? All the while, they're trying to save this kid's life. Her BP is dropping on the table and blood is seeping out everywhere. And there's no way

that they can stem it many times. Okay. That was a lot to take in. Let me understand this. So she shot in the hip. Do we know the caliber? I do not know the caliber, Nancy. She shot in the hip. And that does make a difference because if you've got a 22, maybe not as much damage, depending upon how far back you are if you're talking about a different type of ammunition or a high power gun like a glock or nine you have a whole a mushroom bullet i mean you have a whole range of potential harm done to this child but you keep saying how serious it is if she's shot in the hip or the pelvic region. Why? Well, the reason is, is that there's just, if people can just imagine a network of

these little vessels and there's countless of them, including the one major one, the femoral that you mentioned just a moment ago. Where is the femoral artery? Well, it runs along the inside of the thigh. And actually there is what is, there's actually what's referred to as a foramen. It's a medical term for a hole in the pelvis where it kind of leaches back up through the top of the pelvis and goes into the aorta, which is the largest vessel in the body that comes off of the heart. So that vessel itself is supplying the total, I mean, the totality of the lower body with oxygenated blood. And when you clip that vessel, when you clip that vessel, it's got a tremendous amount of pressure on it. And it's the heart's just pumping out volumes of blood everywhere. The hip is filling up that area in that area where the surgeon is trying to stem this bleeding is filling up. And that's why it's so difficult, particularly if the bone is fragmented and it's clipped other little vessels.

It's an absolute medical nightmare. I would compare the femoral artery to the jugular up below your chin and your neck as to the, in a sense that it's pumping blood, these are your main arteries. And if you slice one of these arteries, you're dead. That's just all there is to it. If you slice the femoral artery. But they tried to save her. How would you even try to save a slice to the femoral artery, Joe Scott? How do you even do that?

Well, you know, they have to make a rather large incision in this area because like I was talking about, Nancy, there's so many vessels that are involved in this area. Literally, this is the scary thing. Literally, while they are attempting to stem the flow, they're having to do an exploratory surgery here to determine what vessels have been affected. Obviously, the first one you want to go to is inspect the continuity or the integrity of the femoral artery. If it's got clipped anywhere along the way, if it's got a little defect in it, you try to tie that off as quickly as you can. But all the while, if again, the bone has fragmented, you've got these other little

vessels that are also springing blood all over the place. That's why this makes this such a hellish nightmare. She didn't have a chance. That ambulance pulls up to try to rush to the hospital, but with a punctured femoral artery, Madison didn't have a chance. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace why does a 16 year old girl die in her own home bleeding out take a listen to our friend at wkrg news 5 reporter brianna hollis they heartbroken, but it really does seem to be shock over anything else right now because those family members say they have seen these suspects in their house before. They were in our house, I thought, as friends a number of different times, yes. They just lived two or three houses down and across the street.

But when those five teens came over on February 24th, it went much differently. They left in handcuffs. 16-year-old Madison Harris left for dead. James Waldeck, who was engaged to Harris's grandmother, says he found out something was wrong when he got an alert on his ring doorbell. Charged in an unlocked door here at the carport and within a matter of 10 seconds, he's shooting and screaming, and then them running out the door. These are the five suspects, Yakisha Blackman and Jacquez Porter. They're all between 15 and 17 years old.

We think they were involved in a burglary at the house two weeks ago. Waldeck reported the crime to police, and he thinks Monday's violence may have been in response to that. And we're afraid that this may have been retaliation against us reporting their crime. Retaliation for reporting a burglary. You are hearing the fiance, the grandma's fiance, that's where she's living, Jane Walczek, talking. He first learns there's something wrong because he sees an ambulance at his home on his ring set on a cell

phone alexis teres chuck these are all juveniles that she thought were her friends is that correct alexis yes that's why these kids were there this these were friends of hers she also had her other friend paul who was in the house at the same time, they all knew each other. And so them coming in, seeing your friends, perhaps wasn't as scary as it would have been if it was five people that you didn't know. What did they want, Alexis? What did they want to steal? Well, it seems like that they, when they, when the kids were arrested, when all these teenagers were arrested, they told the police themselves that they wanted to steal marijuana from her. So they think this little girl may have marijuana. They come into the home.

They don't get anything. No, nothing. All this over nothing. There's nothing like that there. And now the little girl is dead. So these five teens desperate to find dope break in a home. There's nothing there in this subdivision with dad in the backyard raking leaves. And there's nothing for them to steal if that's what they want.

These are friends of the little girl. You know, Karen Stark, you've heard me say many, many times that sometimes I would be more concerned about what a juvenile would do as opposed to an adult. Because I don't think the juveniles get the consequences of pulling that trigger. And then the person's dead. They don't. That's right. They don't get the consequences their brains are not fully developed so morally they don't make those kind of decisions they're not wise think about it five people supposedly break into that house for the sake of stealing marijuana

why five to begin with why violence like that a? None of that makes a lot of sense. And would they have done something like that if they actually understood that they would be killing someone and the consequences of what that would do? And I doubt it. I doubt that they could think that through. None of it makes sense. And Mark Tate, a trial lawyer, joining me out of Savannah at TateLawGroup.com. The reality is this. With a case like this, they're going to be bound over. This is what we call one of the seven deadly, far different from the seven deadly sins in Canterbury Tales. It's like sloth, greed, pride, lust, gluttony, jealousy, and anger. Wow, I can't believe I got all seven.

The seven deadlies in the criminal code are murder, rape, sodomy, aggravated assault, child molestation, arson, and did I say armed robbery? Kidnapping. Ah, thank you. Kidnapping. Always your deal. So it's got a, thank you, Mark Tate. So it's a very, very different interpretation when you're talking about the seven deadlies.

Under the law, those seven deadlies are DFA's designated felonies under the Designated Felony Act, which means if a juvenile commits one of those, they are almost immediately bound over to adult court. There's no discussion. In fact, there has to be a big hearing if they're not going to be treated as adults. So while Karen Stark in her ivory tower in Manhattan somewhere in her posh pad and a high rise is talking about they don't know what they're doing. They're 17 years old. They knew how to pull a trigger. And this little girl is dead.

She have any marijuana. She's in there baking cookies for Pete's sake. It wouldn't matter if she did have one of them. It would not matter, Mark Tate. Right. So in my mind, 17 years old is not so – yes, of course their brains aren't done forming, but they had a gun. And, you know, my dad was a Marine Corps drill instructor, and I had a rifle in my hands when I was six years old. And the very first thing I ever learned is you never point a gun at anything that you do not want to be dead.

And these kids either knew or should have known that, and they didn't care. I don't think this is a matter of not understanding for these people. It is a brazen, horrific, horrible, rather, I think these kids were connected to it. And I think that's what the investigation is going to bear out. And we all know that Mississippi loves the death penalty. And I think the way this was carried out demonstrates very clear in my mind premeditation. They're not going to get the DP, Mark. That's the only thing I disagree with you on. Because under a U.S. Supreme Court ruling, 18 and under,

you cannot get the DP in our country under 18. They're 17, but they can get life. Yeah, and my point was, yes, you're exactly right. The point is this traditionally would be a death penalty crime. Totally. However, they have so many young, there are so many relatives of this victim alive. Sometimes the death penalty on them is hard because over the next 20 years, there will be appeals, pleas for clemency. Appeals out the yin-yang. And you know what's heartbreaking, especially on this, is that this girl is being homeschooled.

So she doesn't have all the school friends that a lot of children have, a lot of teens have. And she thinks these teens are her friends. And they befriend her the whole time Alexis Torres shut crime online because they want to get in the home and I don't think they were looking for pot I think they had burglarized the home before and then the family reported the burglary and they came back in to seek vengeance in revenge I think that's what happened Alexis Tereschuk well I might actually disagree with you there I think okay I think that's what happened, Alexis Tereszczuk. Well, I might actually disagree with you there. I think that they did want marijuana. They broke in the first time.

They didn't get what they wanted. And they came back a second time saying to this girl, we know you're hiding it and we're going to get it this time. And it seemed like there was a scuffle. And I am not a young, innocent woman. Let me ask you a question, Alexis. Did they go into the home with a gun? No. Where did the gun come from?

So the gun came from the friends who were at a window outside and then passed the gun into the house. So no, they didn't come in with a gun. Okay, let me rephrase my question. Alexis Tereschuk, once entering the home, did they get a gun from the outside and bring it into the home? Was the gun handed to them? Can I break it down any more simply for you? Yes, the gun was handed to them. Let me ask you another question, Alexis.

And again, this is a yes-no. This is what we call cross-examination, not direct, where you launch into an unrelated story. Alexis Tereschuk, have you ever visited someone's home, then put your arm out the window and gotten a gun? Have you ever done that? That's a yes, no. No. Good lord, you're a tough little cookie. Long story short, they come in looking for pot that they couldn't find the first time. And they come back after that burglary was reported. And now this girl is dead. Her friends killed her. Bobby, she can't wait in.

So one of the suspects went in 30 minutes before the other four came in. My theory would be that they went in, that first person went in to either talk to her about testifying in the previous burglary case or what she knew what she intended to do she probably texted back to the other four saying she wasn't having much success talking her out of you know withdrawing the charges of the previous case i would look at that one suspect's texts and and emails and um the uh the other witness paul her friend who was there witnessed that conversation for 30 minutes. Something happened during those 30 minutes that told the other four to come in and within 10 seconds kill that young girl. My theory is that they tried to talk her out of or they tried to get her to withdraw the burglary charges and it was unsuccessful. And then they decided to eliminate the witness.

Wow. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.