Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - ‘Drunk’ Kim Kardashian look-a-like kills mother of six just visiting her preemie-twin-girls : Cops

Episode Date: October 23, 2017

A California mother of infant twins died in a head on collision police say was caused by a drunk 21-year-old woman. Nancy Grace discusses the case with defense lawyer Mark Tate, psychologist Dr. Chole Carmichael, and reporter Drew Nelson. The trial of a Mississippi man accused with setting fire and killing Jessic Chambers ended in a mistrial. Memphis reporter Shane Deitert joins Nancy and the others to discuss what happened in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. The 37-year-old mother of six who just gave birth to twin daughters about eight weeks ago was returning home around midnight after visiting the babies at the hospital when she was tragically killed in a suspected DUI crash. That night was hell. I knew she was on her way home and when she wasn't home when I thought she should be home I got worried. Investigators are still awaiting toxicology results but say they suspect a 21 year old female driver may have been impaired and slammed head-on

into Evans's car after losing control while side swiping another vehicle. We had people here when I told the kids that their mom was gone and that was really important because every kid needed a hug and I could only really hug one at a time. A young mother was on her way home from visiting her premature twin daughters still in the hospital. She was heading home to her other four children to take care of them when tragedy strikes. A drunk Kim Kardashian lookalike enters the scene and now mommy is dead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories and we want justice. Joining me right now, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, psychologist and founder of anxietytools.com.

Also with me, Crime Stories investigative reporter Drew Nelson and Alan Duke joining me from L.A. Drew Nelson, I want to start at the beginning. What happened? She's 21 years old. We suppose she's been out drinking, or who knows what she'd been doing. What we do know is that her blood alcohol content level,.21. Now, the legal limit is.08. That's about the equivalent of one beer. Almost three times over the legal limit.

Three times the legal limit, and she goes out driving. She loses control of her car. Wait a minute. Not only does she lose control, Drew Nelson, you're right about that, she actually jumps the central median. That's how bad she's out of control I mean Alan Duke true I may have run into a curb here and there but jumping the median I don't mean when you find out you're going the wrong way and you secretly get over the median a little bitty like maybe you know, six inch tall. I'm talking about a big concrete median designed specifically so

this exact thing wouldn't happen. She jumps the median, Alan Duke. That's how drunk she is. Right. Cross the center median. This is Golden Valley Road near Santa Clarita. This is just maybe 15 miles from where I'm sitting right now. You know, that's a huge median, and it's there for a reason, to stop exactly this type of crash from occurring. You know, typically, Dr. Chloe, I don't know what kind of driver you are. I know you're a premier psychologist, but, you know, when you tap into something,

like you back in, you know, immediately, and you veer away or stop your car. But this woman was so out of control this kim kardashian look about i mean i'm not even going to comment on the sucked in cheeks you know how when you take a selfie you go and you know do a power i'm trying to do it right now so you can hear it but it's like all sucked in with a giant implanted lips, the puffed up trout pout, the hair parted down the middle, long, black, morticial looking hair. She's got the whole Kardashian thing down pat, except for the driver that would have avoided this kind of a crash. Dr. Chloe, when you're so out of your gourd, you jump over a concrete median into oncoming traffic. What's that telling you, doctor? Well, obviously, Nancy is somebody who is

completely inebriated, you know, beyond their capacity to make good decisions. But of course, she actually did make the decision to put alcohol into her body. So I believe that she needs to be held accountable. Joining me right now is Cheryl McCollum, not only director of the Coal Case Institute, but former president of Mothers Against Drunk Driving Georgia. Cheryl, you know, this fact has never escaped me since you told me this many years ago. When a drunk driver is caught one time, how many times have they been driving drunk? That is not the first time they've driven drunk.

Absolutely, you're right. They've driven, on average, 11 times intoxicated before they're stopped the first time. So this is a habit of this perpetrator. I mean, Nancy, they drive drunk all the time. That's how they get where they're going. It's not a one-time thing. And you're talking now about a woman that has left six children without a mother.

For what? For two beers? For three beers? For six martinis? Whatever this woman chose to have when she got in the car, she touched somebody's mother. This is a habit. And again, she has rendered six children motherless. Those precious premature babies she won't hold them she won't feed them she won't have that bonding moment that they so desperately need and she did this for what Cheryl do you remember when the twins were born yeah you just throw me that shower where all the cops and investigators and everybody from the DA's office showed up. We had this great baby shower and little do we know, almost immediately after that, I would go into emergency cesarean.

Right. And Lucy was only two pounds, barely two pounds. These two little girls, the victim in this case, were one pound each. And her husband, yes, I know she's the mother of six. I wish I was the mother of six, Cheryl. I know it sounds crazy, but I am so in love with the twins. I would just love to expand it. This woman, according to her husband, had waited 15 years to have these children. Two baby girls, one pound each. You know how much they need their mother? They need round-the-clock care when they get home from the hospital, or at least my twins did.

Of course. Round the clock. Remember, my mission was to keep them alive. Right. No question. And now no mom. No mom. And they need that bond.

They need that mother. And they just do. And Nancy, again, she did this for what? Four drinks? Six drinks? Okay, so six martinis, seven beers. You render six children motherless. You know, to Dr. Chloe Carmichael, psychologist and creator of anxietytools.com,

Dr. Chloe, why is it driving me so crazy to look at these selfies she keeps taking of herself, all decked out like Kim Kardashian. Why? That is just really getting under my skin. And look, she's a beautiful young girl, the drunk driver. But I guess it's the self-congratulation, the self-absorption of all of these photos when I know what has happened. I can certainly understand why the selfies would drive you crazy. As you said, it really suggests

in this particular case, somebody who's actually quite selfish, who doesn't have any empathy or regard for other people and who's literally making reckless, you know, life-ending choices for other people. So, of course, those selfies drive you crazy. It's totally understandable. You know, also to Drew Nelson, Crime Stories investigative reporter, the mom was thrown from the car and was pronounced dead immediately by first responders. I know she has four other children that she was on her way home to take care of. She's got four other boys,

12-year-old Spencer, 11-year-old Travis, 9-year-old Nathaniel, and 2-year-old Gideon, you know, and I can speak to nine-year-olds how much they need their mom because, you know, you think they need you when they're babies and you're changing their dypes and you're getting formula and milk down them and teaching them to walk and to spell. But really, as they get older, and Cheryl, I know you agree with this, they need you even more. As they're navigating the world and they're coming home from school upset or there's a bully or there's this or there's that, they don't even remember you changing those diapers. So, Drew, I think I understand now, Drew Nelson, why she's been waiting 15 years. She finally had girls.

She's got four boys. She finally had girls. She's got four boys. She finally had these little girls. Yeah. And she's only been able to visit them at the hospital up until this point. You know, they'd only been born just weeks earlier. Sarah and Hannah, these little girls. And you know what it's like to be waiting on twins. And here she is having to go to the hospital to visit them and then go home to the boys.

And what I have just been discovering about this crash is just horrific. The woman we've been talking about, the 21-year-old Miss Sina, she had containers of alcohol in the car. According to the police, there were open containers. Cheryl McCollum with me, former president of MAD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving Georgia. Weigh in on what you're hearing. I really want to hear your take on this. Of course she did, Nancy. This is one crime that is so selfish. This is not somebody that shoplifts for Christmas presents for their children because they're broke. This is not somebody that steals food because they're hungry. This is somebody that willingly has total and complete disregard for whoever might be in their path. They don't give a damn. They're going to get in the car and they're going to drive.

Of course, you had alcohol. And the other thing that is so just despicable and disgusting is, of course, she's fine. She's not injured at all. It's never the drunk driver. They get out like, what? What's happened? Why is that? Why do they never get hurt, Cheryl McCollum?

Every DUI manslaughter that I've ever seen which by the way I don't think it should be manslaughter which I'm going to get to yep they're always fine it's always the innocent victim that dies why is that well one answer that I've been given is because they're so relaxed because they're drunk they're wasted so they're just cruising around barely even you know so when they crash, their body is so relaxed, they just have no injury. Whereas the other person tenses up and bones break and, you know, they suffer horrific damage. It's just one of the pathetic ironies of this crime. You know, another issue, people always call it an accident. But I, as I have told many, many juries, Cheryl McCollum, it is no accident.

It is a crash. And I say it's a murder. This is my reasoning. You decide to go to a bar and drink. You know what? Fine. That's your decision. But then you decide to fish through your pocketbook and find your car keys.

Then you decide to get another drink. Then you manage to get off that barstool and head to the car. Then you decide to unlock it, open the door, and get behind the driver's seat. You know you've been drinking. You decide to crank it up, put it in reverse, ease out, and put it in drive. You decide to get out on the highway. That's your decision, all calculated decisions. And the law says, Cheryl McCollum, as you and I have both said before, the law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act. In other words, if I were to take a piece of fine china

and throw it to the cement floor, I couldn't then say, well, I meant to throw it, but I didn't mean for it to break. The law presumes you intend the natural consequence of your act. So you get in the car drunk and start driving on a busy freeway.

What do you think is going to happen, Cheryl? And Nancy, there's not one person at her age that did not have something in her high school, something in her middle school where they teach there. They have drummed this into people about.08 and drinking and driving and the danger. She knew it. She didn't care. And now she's a murderer as far as I'm concerned. I want you to listen to what her husband, an aerospace engineer, has to say. Who's

now raising six children, four boys and two premature baby girls still in the NICU, neonatal intensive care unit, right now, what he has to say about losing his beautiful wife. That night was hell. I knew she was on her way home. And when she wasn't home, when I thought she should be home, I got worried. We had people here when I told the kids that their mom was gone. And that was really important because every kid needed a hug hug and I could only really hug one at a time. I'm sure she's going to watch over them for the

rest of their lives. There's still so much good in this world and we are seeing it firsthand. And I think that is the thing that's sustaining me right now. To Dr. Chloe Carmichael, psychologist and founder of anxietytools.com, what do you think this dad is going through right now? I cannot even imagine. Oh, Nancy, it must just be, as you said, almost beyond what we can comprehend because a man has an innate desire to protect and to care for women. That's really something that Mother Nature and evolutionary, or evolution kind of programmed into men. And that's actually heightened when the woman has given birth because, you know, of a lot of complex reasons with evolutionary psychology, but she's actually helping to pass on his genes at that particular moment.

So in terms of evolutionary psychology, he has a heightened sense of protection. And then just through being socialized, of course, as well, his wife has just given birth. He has a naturally heightened desire to protect and shelter her. So for this to happen at this particular moment when he was soaring in the heights of basking

and being for the sixth time now a father with this woman, and they had four older boys, and now they have these two little girls. Every protection bone in his body was amplified at the moment of this terrible, you know, as you're saying, just what feels in many ways almost like a murder of somebody that just took a huge piece of steel and drove it into her car and had her thrown into the air and violently killed. So the type of anguish and loss as well as anger that he must be feeling right now is almost unfathomable. Let's pause just one moment to thank our partner today making our SiriusXM 132 program possible. It's LegalZoom. Let's pause just one moment to thank our partner. It's Link

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N-A-N-C-Y to save 30% on your order with free shipping at LinkAKC.com. LinkAKC.com. Code Nancy. Thanks, LinkAKC. code nancy thanks link akc a 21 year old drunk kim kardashian look-alike crosses the median at point two one slams into a mother of six on her way home from visiting her premature twins that she had waited 15 years to have mother of six premature twin girls on her way home to the other four children when tragedy strikes. Is it true, Drew Nelson, Crime Stories investigative reporter, that she also hit another vehicle?

She hit two cars that night? Two cars. And then as she collided with the mother of six, who knows how fast she was going at that time. I mean, imagine 25 miles an hour, just 25 plus 25 miles an hour for the other car. That's a 50 mile an hour force. And this mother of six is thrown from the car. You know, Cheryl, she was almost home. And I know that doesn't mean anything probatively. It doesn't prove anything. She was one mile from home. How tired do you think she was? Cheryl just trying to get home.

She's taking care of four boys. That's not the easiest. And the husband's working full time in the aerospace field. Her lifelong dream of having girls finally happens, and she couldn't wait to take care of them at the hospital, still in intensive care, and is driving home. One mile, she almost made it, Cheryl. You know, Nancy, they always tell you within that five-mile radius. So again, that tells you that this criminal was in a residential district.

She had no care or concern who was in her path. It could have been an elderly person. It could have been a handicapped person. It could have been a small child. She did not care. And horrifyingly, it's a mother of six that was doing nothing wrong she was doing everything in the world right what does it say to you cheryl mccollum former director of mothers against drunk driving georgia that she had open contain ers ers that's plural of alcohol in her car you can't wait to get home or to a bar. You got to drink on the way. Yeah, she's an alcoholic, and everybody in her social group knows it, and her family knows it, and they're going to try to deny it.

But she drinks until she blacks out. This has been going on since college, and, you know, this is probably not the first run-in. She's probably had speeding. She's probably had reckless driving. She may or may not even have a DUI. But I am telling you, she has driven drunk more than once because, again, this is a woman that by herself. She's not in a car with six people where she's partying and they're all headed to spring break.

She's alone. And she's a.21. The legal limit is.08. She won't even try. Almost three times the legal limit of.08 she wouldn't even try almost three times the legal limit you know the other day I dragged the twins to go

walk our crazy mutt dog fat boy with me and John David you know all the boys were the baggy pants so he had these big baggy shorts on and he put a water bottle in each bottle, in each pocket, which made them go, you know, they were like hanging down. I'm like, what are you crossing the Sahara?

You got to have two water bottles? Well, I'm going to give you 40 minutes. You can make it. Okay, be strong, son. And I'm just thinking, she has to have two containers of booze, at least, because they say containers, to get from, what, her house to the gas station or the bar to the house or the house to the bar? She can't make it there without downing some booze, Cheryl McCollum? She's probably not even going to the bar, Nancy.

This is how she travels, I'm telling you. When she leaves her house, she's got her flask or whatever the container is that she's got open. And this is how she's going to Walmart. This is how she's going to get her nails done. This is how she lives. She's a drunk. And, you know, you're talking about three times the legal limit. She should serve three times what a normal person would serve.

She needs to go to prison. You know what, Cheryl? I'm afraid you and I have really just seen too much of this world because not that I want to leave. Don't get me wrong, Lord. But when you said flask, do you know what John David, my son, who's nine, said? He goes, Mom, I want a flask. And I'm like, what's a flask?

Of course, I knew what it was, but I was hoping he didn't know. He went, you know, you put stuff in it to drink. I'm like, son, why do you want a flask? And he went, mom, I want to put cold milk in it.

And it took all of my strength not to start laughing. And you know what I did, right? Oh, yeah. When the next place we were at target or so i don't know where we were we saw a flask i'm like luke john day there's a flask oh

we were at the hardware store and they had him for like campers or something and i got him a flask he came home he didn't even clean it out mike did you clean it out first he went no he poured milk and it started drinking and i think where he saw it was on harry potter i don't know how much you watch it but we've read them all and watched them all and mad eye moody drinks from a flask all the time and john david saw it and decided to put milk in it oh so when i and you and i you know we just have and when cheryl is spouting all this information, it's because she we've done it so many times. I mean, come on, Jackie, here in the studio, when you go to Target or Walmart or wherever you go, do you carry two bottles of booze just to make it to work? I mean, I wouldn't even think of it.

And she's right. This is how she rolls. But you know what? We're talking lightheartedly about flasks and Walmart and Target and Polyjuice Potion and Harry Potter. Let's bring it all home. Alan, please let's hear one more time. Katie Evans, husband.

That night was hell. I knew she was on her way home. And when she wasn't home, when I thought she should be home, I got worried. We had people here when I told the kids that their mom was gone. And that was really important because every kid needed a hug and I could only really hug one at a time. I'm sure she's going to watch over them for the rest of their lives. There's still so much good in this world, and we are seeing it firsthand. And I think that is the thing that's sustaining me right now. For those who wish to help the family of Katie Evans, Drew Nelson, Crime Stories investigative reporter, is there a way we can help?

Look at the website, youcaring.com. This shows a picture from happier times. The four boys, dad and mom. The girls aren't in the picture because they haven't been able to come home yet. But there's six children on this website, youcaring.com. And look for the Evans Family Accident Expense Fund. but six children on this website, youcaring.com, and look for the Evans Family Accident Expense Fund. And if you can't contribute that way, I'm sure they can use your prayers.

And now we go to Panola County, Mississippi, and one of the most horrific cases court watches have seen, which in the last hours has resulted in a mistrial. It's all about a young cheerleader, Jessica Chambers, a cheerleader all the way through high school who was literally burned alive. The evidence has pointed to the defendant, Quentin Tellis, who admits he was with her throughout the evening on and off. Their text messages are playing a major role in this investigation, where he continually, via text message, pressured her to have a romantic relationship. I'm putting that euphemistically.

I'm definitely putting perfume on the pig. He was pressuring her for sex over and over and over. And you can see on the text messages where she kept saying, no, no, no, leave me alone. No, no, no, no, leave me alone, no, no, no. Then how is it that they are alone in her car by his own admission up until 7.30 p.m. the evening? She is doused with gasoline and set on fire. What, somebody else comes along in that 30-minute window from the time he left her and the time she spotted on the side of the road burning alive that's kind of hard for me to believe to shane dietert joining us assignment editor with wat and shane thank you for being with us let's start at

the beginning what happened the night that jessicabers was spotted by a motorist wearing nothing but her underwear? Her bra had melted off her body. Asking for help. What happened? Cole Haley, a former fire chief of that area, was the first person on scene. And Cole at the time said that he asked jessica jessica who she was he described how she would look and wait a minute he told the jury that the moment he saw her he knew it was jessica chambers it's a very low population everybody knows each other and she comes out of the woods. Her car is on fire. It's totally destroyed by fire out in a field.

She comes walking up along the roadway on fire. And he knows it's Jessica Chambers right then and there. Right. He asked her her name to verify it. And her answer, of course, you got to remember she's on fire. She's in incredible spoke to the father, which I did in depth, he told me that at the time, doctors believed the perpetrator had poured gasoline or lighter fluid down her mouth and throat.

That's how badly her insides were burned. She could hardly speak, which becomes very important later on. So they couldn't even understand when she tried to say chambers. It sounded like something completely different. Why is that so significant that she can't speak, Mark Tate? The reason that's significant, Nancy, is this. Dying declarations carry a lot of evidentiary weight, especially in this instance. And so she identified later a name of the person who set her on fire. And people who were interviewing her said it sounded

like she said Tellus or Eric or something along those lines. And so as a result of that dying declaration, law enforcement proceeded to conduct interviews of numerous people who had those names and ruled them all out. And so the notion is that her, gosh, it's just unbelievable, that her mouth and tongue and teeth were so destroyed that she couldn't speak correctly, but that the word that she said was so close to the name of the man who clearly had contact with her throughout the evening and day and has evidence of having harassed her for sex, the name sounds close enough. And so that's the argument to the jury. I think it's a good argument, and I think the judge was correct in letting that evidence in as a dying declaration to let the jury determine whether, in fact, she identified her killer.

I've got no problem with that. One word. You're so right, Mark Tate. Shane Dieter joining me, assignment editor, W-A-T-N. Shane, when the fire chief got there, as you were just telling us, I mean, the woman, she can't talk. She's been on fire. In fact, every square inch of her body was burned except for the soles of her feet and her rear end where she had been sitting in the car, where I think she was raped in the car myself because shane isn't it true that tell us himself says they quote had sex in the car yes nancy uh he said that they had sex in the passenger seat of her car and so how is it

shane deeter that all these text messages where she's saying no no no no no and then she apparently gives him a ride next thing you know whoops they're having sex and now she's saying no, no, no, no, no. And then she apparently gives him a ride. Next thing you know, whoops, they're having sex, and now she's dead. It sounds to me more like she was raped in the car, and he had to get rid of her or else she would report the rape, and she ends up set on fire. Now, Shane, what happened? Mark Tate, the multi-state defense lawyer, was describing some of the facts.

But what happened when the fire chief spoke to her? At first, Nancy, he said he was trying to get her help and all of that. He said that he couldn't understand the name that she said, which everyone has said in testimony. She said, Eric. He said that he had his ear down to her mouth. He couldn't understand it. And then a couple of days later, when he was doing his written statement, then he said, she said, Eric. So eventually he said he couldn't. Yeah. He asked her who did this to you? And she tried to say a name, a single word. and he said it sounded like Eric. Here's the fire chief.

What was this person wearing? When I seen her, she had nothing on but her pants. And what did you tell me you did? You got a blanket? I got out and I got a blanket, and she had her arms out, was coming towards me, saying, help me, help me, help me. Nicole, I want you to describe for this jury what did she look like? What was the condition of Jessica Chambers? Her hair was fried out like she had stuck it in a light socket.

And she had black all over her face. Her body was severely burned and just all the way down her body was very badly burned and proceeded to lay her down on the ground. She reached out for my hand. I held onto her hand and I talked to her and I asked her her name. She said what come out, like I said, her mouth, inside her mouth was just charred black and could not understand her very well at all. Were you able to get a name? When I asked her her name, she said Jessica Chambers. Like I said, she was not recognizable to me.

I know what Jessica Chambers looked like, did not look like Jessica Chambers at the time. Now, describe her voice for the jury. How was it coming out when you were talking to her? It was very garbled and just dry. I mean, you know, I was face to face with her and she, like I said, you could barely understand her. for water and I knew in my mind she didn't need water. I knew that was not the best, you know, not to give her water. I held her hand beside her and asked her what happened and she told me she said, I was set on fire. Again, was her voice clear? It was not not clear.

Like I said you know some words come you were able to tell what they were plainly but it was not clear if it makes sense. Did you ask her who did this to her? I asked her, I said, who did this to you? She tried to say a name. I could not understand the name. Did it sound like anything to you? I could not make out anything to what she said. The only time I heard a name was after Daniel Cole got on scene, Medstat got there, and I believe a deputy was there, and they had turned her head away from me, and they had started packing packing her up and they kept questioning her you know who did this who did this who did this and then I heard them say Eric I said I never personally I never heard her say a name.

They went on, though, the first responders, there were eight of them, plus the chief. And they said that they couldn't understand what she was saying. The emergency equipment was blaring in the background. All these fire trucks and police, all these people were there. And she couldn't speak. And she was barely whispering, and then they said they couldn't make out the word. But, Mark Tate, let me compare it to the moment in court when Orenthal James Simpson, O.J. Simpson,

held up the glove, which was dried blood, soaked with dried blood and shrunken, and he pulls it over his fingers, let's just say the top digits and says it doesn't fit yeah and that one thing was the lynchpin in the not guilty verdict that one moment and that's how i say what i'm saying about this dying declaration just like i know darn well that was his glove because nicole brown bought it him. And there's proof of that plus a receipt and a picture of what she bought him. It's that glove. Okay. And I know in this case, the drama of a dying declaration where she allegedly said, Eric, I think she was trying to say, tell us, but they thought she said, Eric, they didn't know

the name, tell us. And so they figured they deciphered she said eric and that is what hung this jury up i'm telling you well first of all let me about the simpson trial i think there was a whole lot going on there besides the gross prosecutorial mistake of crying the the jury. I think we had a judge. Yeah, you and I both know, never do a demonstration you have not practiced. Oh yeah, but I think, I agree with you, but the judge let the defense team run rampant, and I think that he was impressed with the celebrity status of his trial, and I think

that he and the way he conducted that trial contributed in large part. There's no question that the prosecutors made a tragic error. And boy, they paid for that tragic error and continue to in their careers because they're never going to live that down. Similar to this case, I think we have a judge who made a mistake, and I'll talk about that when you're ready. But the things that you have gone over about whether the police chief could hear her at the time she was making her dying declaration, or whether he remembered it later, whether the first responders who had the sirens blaring with them could not understand and hear, yeah, that's all good. That's great evidence for the defense to put on and cross-examine these witnesses with in order to create a doubt.

And that is, listen, it is circumstantial evidence. It is something that should be examined and questioned. Well, yeah, but I think you're right to start with. I think the judge should have allowed the dying declaration in. You can't keep something like that out. You'll get reversed on appeal. If they thought she said Eric at the time, the jury has a right to know that. You can't, you know, sweep it under the rug. They thought she said Eric. In retrospect, they realize that's not what she's saying because, I mean,

the other evidence is so overwhelming. Dr. Chloe Carmichael, psychologist joining us and founder of AnxietyTools.com. Dr. Chloe, I mean, let's take a look at Quentin Tellis' own words. First of all, he changed his story multiple times. Finally, the story he decided to go with was that he was with a friend of his the whole night. Well, of course, police find the friend. The friend says, what? I wasn't even in the state. I was out of the state that night. I've been gone. So he's lying blatantly. He admits he had, quote, sex with Jessica. Well, we know that he had been rebuffed over and over and over.

The state's theory is that he, quote, had sex, I call raped her and asphyxiated her in the car. That then he had to get rid of the evidence. So he goes to his house where he admits he keeps a five-gallon drum of gasoline. And he's caught on surveillance video leaving the house where the shed is with the gas. And within 15 minutes, she's on fire. I mean, oh, also, Dr. Chloe, he deletes all the texts from his phone that referenced to Jessica. Now, why would you do that? If my husband, which is not, I don't want this, has some kind of an accident, I don't run to my phone and delete every text from him. Why would I do that? Well, you're absolutely right, Nancy. It feels like a coordinated pattern here. So,

of course, why would he lie to the police in the first place? So right there, he's demonstrating a disregard for law and order. And, of course, the idea that he would have sex with her and then be seen getting a five-gallon jug of gasoline, it doesn't seem like it's that difficult to understand. Well, he was seen leaving the spot with where the gas can had been. I mean, you can't, you don't know what he's got with him. But I mean, yeah, Dr. Chloe, I mean, what do you need? A video of him killing her? Well, I agree completely. And I mean, there's also the fact that, you know, behavior does often tend to occur in patterns. And from what I understand, this Quentin Verdell Tellis is also currently under investigation for another murder because he was using the credit card of a woman that was murdered as well.

So it seems like he certainly has a pattern of being involved around women who are murdered. Dead women. Exactly. Dead women. You know, Dr. Chloe Carmichael, psychologist joining us, you just read my mind. I guess you're clairvoyant to boot. Because Shane Dieter joining us from WATN,

the fact is he's also facing trial in Louisiana for the murder, the torture slaying of a graduate student there. Her name was Sing Lo, and she was brutally stabbed multiple times. Then after she was stabbed, oh, and many of those stabs, Shane, were torture stabs. In other words, like slicing her down the arm to try to get information about her passcode for her ATM. Then after she gives it up, she's murdered, and he, it's absolutely proven by photographic evidence, uses her ATM card repeatedly after she's dead.

Correct. So there you go. There's another dead woman. Everywhere he goes, he leaves a trail of dead bodies. He is a bad guy. I mean, she was an exchange student from Taiwan. She was at the University of Louisiana Monroe. And he now sits in Ouachita Parish Jail there. And that's where he was when February of 2016, he got the indictment for the murder of Jessica Chambers. Well, the jury has hung. The jury has hung regarding Jessica Chambers.

But Mark Tate, it ain't over yet. They're going to retry him on that. Correct. What do you think they'll do any differently second time around, Mark? Well, first of all, this will allow me to comment on the judge. And, you know, it's dangerous for a trial lawyer to say something negative about a judge. But at least from what has been reported about the charge he gave the jury, this judge did not charge correctly. He told the jury that they had to have a unanimous verdict

for a guilty verdict. But he did not tell them that it had to be unanimous for a not guilty verdict. And so he corrected that charge when the jury came out and said they're deadlocked. And they came back and could not resolve it. If I recall correctly, it was a 7-5. It was 7-5 in favor of guilty. And at first they came out twice with verdicts. The first time they said not guilty because they thought you had to be unanimous on guilty. And if you weren't unanimous on guilty, then it just automatically was a not guilty.

They did not understand the law. But all that, you're absolutely right on the law as usual, Mark Tate. But to me, it's neither here nor there now because there was a hung jury. So there's not going to be an appeal. There's going to be a retrial. They're going to retry that. And I'll tell you this. They better be ready and hit that digital evidence and hit it hard

because there's no way in H-E-double-L that this guy was with her at 730, 745, and at 8 o'clock she's running down the road or approaching the road almost naked on fire. Right. And she's with him 15 minutes before? Uh-uh. Yeah, I would question. They've got to hit the timeline and the digital evidence. I mean, I think that's the strongest case. If I were the prosecutor, I would seriously question whether I wanted to get into the evidence where the dying declaration seemed to be shifting and somewhat soft.

Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.