Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - EPSTEIN FILES RELEASE HOAX, COULDN'T SLEEP W ADULT WOMEN BC OF "HEART CONDITION"

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

Jeffrey Epstein's former associate and convicted sex trafficker, Ghislaine Maxwell, makes a shocking claim during a recent interview with the Department of Justice. She says Epstein told her he had heart problems and those heart conditions prevented him from regular sexual intercourse. Her statement highly contradicts victim testimony about Epstein's nonconsensual abuse of underage girls weekly. Maxwell continues in the interview,  that former President Bill Clinton was her friend, not Jeffrey Epstein’s, and Clinton never received a ‘massage’ in Epstein’s company.  When asked if President Trump had done anything inappropriate with masseuses, Maxwell replied, "Absolutely never, in any context."  She denies knowing whether masseuses from Mar-a-Lago's spa ended up giving Jeffrey Epstein private massages.  When asked if she herself recruited any for Epstein, Maxwell states, "I've never recruited a masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I remember." Maxwell also claims there is no list or little black book of famous people who were provided minors for the purposes of sex trafficking.  Virginia Guiffre’s family, and other Epstein victims have slammed the government’s decision to interview Ghislaine Maxwell and release the tapes, saying Maxwell was passed a microphone and given a platform to ‘rewrite history.’    Joining Nancy Grace today, Troy Slaten - Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers; Twitter @TroySlaten Dani Pinter - Senior Vice President and Director of Law Center, National Center on Sexual Exploitation, website: endsexualexploitation.org Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away” Also featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic Tisa Tells - Pop Culture Investigator & Commentator and Host of 'Tisa Tells' on Youtube, Instagram & TikTok: @TisaTellss, Facebook: Tisa.Tells.3 Sydney Sumner - Crime Online Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Epstein Files release, it's a big hoax. Lies, lies, lies. Why won't Bondi release the files? What is she hiding? This, as Jelaine Maxwell gives a statement to the feds. It's nothing but a pack of lies, including wait for it. The Jeffrey Epstein couldn't sleep

with adult women because of a heart condition. This is while he is charged with sex trafficking minors. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Now we've got the administration telling us, look the other way. We've got orange blobs. We got a guy who looks like, you know, he supposedly killed himself with orange paper towels, please. There are probably hundreds of people who needed Jeffrey Epstein gone for multiple reasons. There's so much happening in the Jeffrey Epstein case. He is haunting us from the Great Beyond. Actually, it's not the Great Beyond. I know where he is. He's having dinner with Satan tonight. That said, why can't we get our mitts on the Epstein files? Jelaine Maxwell, his

hench person, his Bilsabub, has been transferred to a cushy dormitory style jail, and she gives hours and hours of statements, all of them, a pack of lies. Is she trying to curry favor to pave the way to a pardon? Well, speaking of her lies, I want you to hear one right off the top. Listen. So, um, there's been a lot of conversations. about whether Mr. Epstein maintained like a list of people, like a book of famous people that he knew, like a, it's called a black book or a client list or list. Did you know the existence of any such list?

There is no list. We'll start with that. The genesis of that story I can actually trace for you from its absolute inception if that is what you're interested in it. Well, first, you know, to be sure, there is no list, there's no client list, nothing like that. No, there's nothing like that. You know. That, obviously.

During the time that you were with Mr. Epstein, and even in the 2000s when you were around less frequently, you never observed, or you never saw any sort of list or black book or a list of individuals who you know linked to certain masseuses or anything like that absolutely no there is no list there is no i'm not aware of any blackmail i never heard i never heard that i never saw it and i never i never imagined it don't fall for that posh brit accent there you hear Galeigh Maxwell swearing there is no client list what do we mean by a client list Jeffrey Epstein had a worldwide child trafficking ring right he flew little girls from all over the world Turkey France the stands to an island that we know of where they were put off the plane onto a ferry and ferried to a private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands

where we have jurisdiction. Now, why is there a parade of 12-year-old little girls going off fairies to Epstein's mansion, which is miles of water away from the shore? One little girl, and it's been documented, try to swim off the island and get back. back to shore, but she couldn't. So the clients are the men they came to be with those children. Now, you hear Galane Maxwell saying, there is no such thing. Well, guess what? The US Attorney General. The U.S. Attorney General. For our whole nation says she's got the client list right there on her desk. Listen. The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Well, really happen? It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President

Trump. I'm going to need to hear that again. That is from our friends at Fox News, our friend John Roberts. Okay, Maxwell's saying, there is no such thing. Bonnie saying, it's right here on my desk, people, and we're going to release it. Well, they haven't released it yet. What are they hiding? And at the core of this, our little girls. Now adults still still. waiting on justice joining me. We're now psychoanalyst, Dr. Bethany Marshall, author of Deal Breaker, you can see her on Peacock, and she is at Dr. Bethanymartial.com. You know, Dr. Bethany, I have dealt with a lot of child molestation victims, a lot of rape

victims. And yes, they grow up, and if you're walking down the street, you would know that they were any different from everybody else. But they carry with them, it's an emotional handicap. They are never the same again, much less when their own government covers it up. Nancy, they carry around profound shame and guilt. And when I say shame, I'm talking about a deep underlying feeling that they are cut off from the love of the community without support, without protection, and that they can never trust again, and that there will never be reconciliation. And in many ways, these feelings are true.

They're not just made up in a case like this when Dylan Maxwell says there's no little black book. Okay, there's a purple book. Okay, there's a Rolodex. You can't tell me there's not a manifest that they had for the planes that the Lolita Express didn't have a list of passengers that went there. You can't tell me that those billions in transfers to Russia had recipients, bank accounts, people managing those accounts.

these women who feel ashamed and cut off from love feel that way for a reason because we as a society is still, we're still playing into this sham, this lie that Gillen Maxwell is telling. You know, the lies that she is spewing goes on and on. And, you know, let me go to a veteran trial lawyer. And I know I'm not ready to fight with you just yet, Troy Slaten, but I think you're going to agree with me. Choice Lighton, as I said, a veteran trial lawyer joining us out of L.A. tried a ton of cases and won a lot of them. Troy, have you ever noticed that when people are trying to tell a lie? I'm thinking of defendants. You're probably going to think of somebody else. And you just sit there quietly and they look at you and then they just keep talking and

the lie gets bigger and bigger and more and more elaborate. It's very hard for a dyed in the wool liar to just make it short and sweet. They just have to elaborate, which I love. Have you ever noticed that? I think even the great author, Shakespeare, noticed it when he said the lady doth protest too much. Liars tend to spin long yarns and create even seemingly unimportant details in order to make the lie more believable. And we may have seen that in action here during Galeen Maxwell's long interview with the assistant attorney general. Now, Troy Slayton, of course, not to split hairs or parse words, but I believe I've corrected you on this before.

The quote is, methinks, thou doth protest too much. It's not just women, Troy Slighton, you misogynist, and that is from Hamlet, just future reference. Actually, keep saying it incorrectly so I can keep. I'll have to review my Shakespeare. You do that. time, I think you're absolutely correct. They can't stop themselves. And I'm getting back to Gilane Maxwell. So she starts off by saying, there is no client list. What client list? Now she goes into a lot of detail. Brace yourself, Slayton. Listen to this. So the original

statement that Brad Edwards makes that's in the documents contemporaneously is that it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has. It then morphs into something that Alfredo took a book that Alfredo took from Epstein's computer, but there's no computer, I know, certainly not in 2005 when this was allegedly taken, that came out as a book. And then it morphed into, at the civil time,

my civil cases, into a book that was taken from my computer, and then it morphed into the Southern District of New York was a combination list of mine and Epstein's. That is a metamorphosis through documents that you can trace. What in the world is she trying to say? Joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Sidney Sumner. Here is Elaine Maxwell. Why they moved her to a cushy, dormitory style jail?

It's not really even a jail. It's more like a camp. Is she trying to cover for Trump or cover for Clinton? I don't know. Maybe neither of those. But she's definitely trying to get a pardon. And here she's saying, there is no client list. There is no Little Black Book.

In other words, there are no Johns. That's what we call them on the street, Johns. So she's trying to explain the genesis of the little black book, the client list story. And she's talking about someone named. Alfredo Rodriguez, and isn't that Epstein's butler? Yes, of course he had a butler. Explain what she's saying, Sidney Sumner. Right. So here she's saying that the purported client list that everyone is freaking out about wants to see doesn't really exist, but to get Blanche up to speed on where exactly this rumor came from, she goes all the way back to 2009, when Epstein has just been criminally investigated the first time, and civil suits are now coming on against him.

So Maxwell claims that this law firm, that was a little bit shady, took on a lot of these Epstein victim civil suit cases. And one of those attorneys was working with Epstein's butler to get evidence against him. So that's where Alfredo Rodriguez comes in. And so what they claimed, what this lawyer claimed to be a client list, was really just an address book that the butler went through and apparently circled or marked people who were involved in this trafficking ring. So Maxwell gets through this long-winded explanation. Yeah, what's wrong with that? Bottom line, boiling it down is that a previous civil lawyer went through an address book, a 500-person address book.

That below, oops, there's the Cuomo's and the Kennedys on there. I doubt that they were visiting Lolita Island. So my point is there are regular contacts in there along with who many believe, are clients, let me say in a nice way, clients. So there's a 500-person address book and the butler who knew Epstein really well, who was there day to day, who saw who was coming and going, went through and marked the names of the men involved in the sex trafficking ring. Okay, sounds like evidence to me. So first of all, Galane Maxwell, in her effort to get a pardon, says there is no client list. Let's hear what else she has to say. Maxwell denies every aspect of Virginia

Jeffre's victimization. Says she never recruited masseuses. Maxwell insists Jifrey is lying about sex with Prince Andrew. Maxwell says Jifre used evidence from flight logs to fabricate the story, saying she was busy with her mom's 80th birthday. Her home in London was not a suitable venue for royalty. In Jafray's description of her bathroom, where Prince Andrew allegedly raped her, was missing unforgettable details. When you were just asked about the photo, you said you actually thought the photo was fake, do you think it was just misdated, or do you think it's literally a fake photo? I believe it's literally a fake photo. Why do you think that? Well, first of all, I don't remember it.

Okay, but the outfit I'm wearing is the outfit from my mom's birthday party. So, but you don't have any, do you dispute that they've met each other? Do you know whether they've met each other? I do not know that they met. Okay, so you not only, so you think the photograph is fake, but you also are not even positive they actually ever met each other. I know. So you don't have a specific recollection of kind of being at an event or a party or your apartment, you know, you're flat Munden with Prince Andrew and. Absolutely.

So in addition to Gillian Maxwell stating, there is no client list when Bonnie says, it's right here on my desk, people. She now has disavowed everything that Virginia Jafray said about being abused. used not only by Epstein, but by Prince Andrew. Then why Tisa Tells joining me, investigative reporter, star of Tisa Tells on YouTube, that Prince Andrew enter into a $20 plus million settlement to shut Jeffrey up if he's totally innocent. And hey, I want you to hear one more thing. Hold on, Tisa. You're going to love this.

Did you hear Galane Maxwell saying that couldn't possibly have been a real photo? because that's the outfit I wore to my mom's birthday. Well, she took a page out of Andrew's book. Remember, he said, well, that couldn't possibly be real because those are my traveling clothes. I guess he has a different set of clothes from every day to travel. In fact, let's listen to Prince Andrew

speaking to the BBC. I don't believe it's a picture of me in London because when I go out to, when I go out in London. I wear a suit and a tie. That's what I would describe as those are my traveling clothes. That's me, but whether that's my hand or whether that's the position, I, but I don't, I have simply no recollection of a photograph ever being taken. That's true our friends at BBC and Troy Slateon. That is exactly why defendants are told keep your yap shut. Exercise your right to the Fifth Amendment. Because Andrew,

just, it got worse and worse and worse. So now he's saying those are his traveling clothes and he would never have worn those to a get together. And that is him, but it's not his hand. He later says that he was there, but he doesn't recall being upstairs. So how does he even know that is the upstairs if he's never been to the upstairs? I mean, his lies get worse and worse. And both he and Galane Maxwell state, this couldn't be real because they've got on the wrong

clothes? The biggest nightmare for an attorney, either in the criminal realm or even in the civil realm, is having their client give interviews and multiple interviews where they're explaining minute details that will always be used against them. Everything that somebody says, whether it's in court or not, if they're a party, can be used against them. It's not hearsay when it parties to a lawsuit. And yeah, that's why it's so important. And I always recommend to my clients that they exercise their right to remain silent. And they don't get diarrhea of the mouth like.

You mean shut the hay up? Yes. Okay. Now, speaking of, yes, that's me, but I've got on the wrong clothes. And that's not my hand. And I've never been to that part of Galeigh Maxwell's home. And she's saying those are the wrong clothes. I would never have worn that.

Well, Andrew says it's so much better. than I can listen. The photograph is taken upstairs, and I don't think I ever went upstairs in Galane's house. That from our friends at BBC. Okay, Tisa Tells, I was asking you, Galane Maxwell goes on and on and on, ad nauseum with some crazy excuse about the butler. Okay, right there.

That's getting three inches up my tailpipe with the accent and the butler and the this and the that. I just can't relate to that. But that aside, she's claiming she never introduced Andrew to Virginia Jafrey. Hello, newsflash. It nearly brought down a monarchy. And there was a $20 plus million settlement to keep Virginia Jafray quiet. You know how ill the queen must have been?

You know, she was a very frugal lady to pay over 20 mil because of Andrew being with a minor. And now Yelaine Max Stone wants us to believe her. Not only does she want us to believe her. She is literally trying to rewrite history in real time. It's funny to me that something, I can understand if this happened 20 years ago, 50 years ago. This literally just happened a few years ago. It is fresh in everyone's mind. This was a campaign promise.

And they sat there in the most bumbling manner, almost like they were two kids that got caught sneaking out to go to the neighbor's party. So you never knew him. No, I never. I never knew him. So you're saying, even the way the questions were presented. So you never knew him? You never said. And like you said, Nancy, magically.

She doesn't know Bill Clinton. She barely knows Jeffrey Epstein. She barely knows Prince Andrew. As a matter of fact, I think Epstein was dating Princess Diana. She literally was throwing a whole pot of spaghetti. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. stop right there it's one thing for galane maxwell to drag princess diana into this and the queen it's another thing for you to do it little lady now go wash your mouth out with so we're not

hearing anything about princess diana hey dr bethany i gotta throw you something else while let troy slayton mull on this one galane maxwell also says now the whole point of me showing many of her most notable lies, there's so many, is to say that everything she's saying about a client list, everything she's saying about Epstein, not sex trafficking, that there were no clients coming to the island or to New York or to Florida, they're all lies. And there is a cover up. And at the heart of it are girls as young as 12 years old. That was. were trafficked, Bethany. That's what this is about.

And we're relying on Galane Maxwell to tell the truth who's like dying to get a pardon. She'll say anything to Dr. Bethany. She also said, wait for it, death, Dr. Bethany, that she only had sex with Epstein once. And then for a really long time, no sex because of his heart condition. I don't even know where to start with that one, Nancy. Okay, well, first of all, let's just in mind the mindset of a pedophile. There are two types.

There's the fixated and there's the regress. The fixated only ever wants children and then the regress will sometimes choose adults, but under times of stress they will gravitate towards children. Both types, Nancy, are in. incredibly childlike. Pedophiles are children themselves. That's why they are attracted to children. And that's why Andrew and Gailin Maxwell are lying, as Cisotel said it, like two little six

or seven-year-olds who snuck out to the party next door. And now they're covering up to their parents. They have a childlike mindset. What's scary, though, is that it's cloaked under all this money and sophistication and power and network of other people. So they pass as adults in society. but their sexual proclivities and the way they operate mentally are like children. And you know what they're not mentioning Nancy?

There's no fond or concerned or empathic recollection of the victims. If Gill and Maxwell would just say once, poor Virginia Jeffries, I can't believe, you know, that she has gone through what she's gone through, or God rest her soul, or I hear she's no longer with us. Do you know there's not one empathic mention of the victims? It's as if the victims have been scrubbed all of the face of the earth. You missed this, Dr. Bethany. I spoke well over an hour to author Barry Levine, who has tracked billions of dollars of Epstein's

and interviewed hundreds of people to figure this whole thing out. Galane Maxwell actually said, hey, I'm going to throw this to Joe Scott Morgan. Jeline Maxwell actually said about the girl victims, they're just trash. All those girls are just trash. So Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. I want to hear your thoughts. Yeah, we see this with people that are, they have serious psychopathy, Nancy. We cover these cases all the time where, you know, we have these individuals that will kill

subjects and kind of dump them off on the side of the road. I know on body bags with my podcast, we cover these cases incessantly where people just discard others like they have no meaning. But Nancy, I want to go back to something real quick that does have meaning, and you'll understand where I'm going with this because you've questioned people. In the very first audio clip of this deposition, did you notice how she makes a statement? And she was not prompted by counsel. she says there is no blackmail list blackmail never came up

she's the one that actually introduced that term into that initial conversation and you know and I know that when you're speaking to people and they have their mind in a particular area and I'm thinking right now very nefarious blackmail list didn't come up

so she's thinking about this and then all of a sudden she verbalizes it and also this idea of dehumanizing individuals as well. How do those two things come together? Well, it's all about her. It's all about him and the world that they lived in and inhabited.

And I still submit to you that she's trying to protect him in death. She's trying to protect herself. And she's trying to protect the reputation. And Lord only knows who else is on the blackmail list, which I think actually exists. When you were just asked about the photo, you said you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think it was just misdated or do you think it's a literally a fake photo? I believe it's literally a fake photo. Why do you think that?

Well, first of all, I don't remember it. We'll stop. Okay, but the outfit I'm wearing is the outfit from my mom's birthday party. So, but you don't have any, do you dispute that they've met? each other? Do you know whether they've met each other? I do not know that they met. Okay, so, so you not only, so you think the photograph is fake, but you also are not even positive they actually ever met each other. I know. So you don't have a specific recollection of kind of being at an event or a party or your apartment,

you know, you're flat Mundin with Prince Andrew and. Absolutely. Why is Pam Bondi this? U.S. Attorney General affecting a hoax on us, the American people. She swore these files would be released. And now there's a political spin on it that nobody cares, that these young victims are all collaborating to somehow smear the administration. They were 12 years old when this happened. They are not in this for politics. They have been begging for justice for years. Galane Maxwell, are we going to believe her? She denies there's a client list.

She denies there was child sex trafficking. She denies everything that Virginia Jafrase said. And by the way, she was convicted for child sex trafficking. She is denying the suicide. She said that didn't happen. She's denying every single thing. about this case, but I want you to hear proof that that photo was real. Despite Elaine Maxwell's insistence, the photo of her, Virginia, Gufrey, and Prince Andrew

is a flat-out fake. The Mail on Sunday says they saw the proof it is real. Mail on Sunday photographer Michael Thomas took the pictures that first ran in 2011 of the original printed photo. Thomas saw a Walgreens receipt for the prints from a location just a few miles from Goufrey's West Palm Beach home. And now, nearly 15 years later, Thomas realized he also photographed the back of the print. The back of the photo is stamped with the print date, March 13, 2001, just three days after Gouffre was trafficked to the prints in London.

To hear Virginia Giffray, she and Jeffrey Epstein sang in the Catholic School choir together. Sydney Sumner, what is the significance of the Mail on Sunday photographer, Michael Thomas, who took the pictures that first ran in 2011. Well, Thomas didn't realize that in addition to the 30 less photos he took of the front of the original printed photo, he also took photos of the back of that print. And Thomas says this was a normal 4I6 printed photo, and the timestamp on the back of that print shows that it was printed at Walgreens, a one-year-old. hour development. And it has the date that this photo was developed just three days after

Geoffrey says she was trafficked to Prince Andrew in London for the first time. So it really grids credibility to her story. And Thomas also saw receipts from where she got this photo developed from a Walgreens just a few miles from her home in West Palm Beach. It was also taken, the photos were shown to experts who have worked at Walgreens for years and years developing photos, and they recognize that type of paper and say that is the paper that would have been used during that time. So this photo really, really gives credibility to the phrase story in the fact that there is no way this print could have been faked. It was not digitally manipulated, and this proofs that.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Danny Pinter is joining us, Senior VP, Director of Law Center, National Center on Sex Exploitation. Danny, thank you for being with us. For some reason, Gilein Maxwell is doing contortions, backflips, somersaults, to explain away everything, including sex trafficking. And reminder, she was convicted of luring children and molesting them. All right. So that's who she is, luring them for Epstein. I can't think of any good reason that the U.S. Attorney General refuses to release these files. There was just another recent hoax where files were released, but less than 3% of the files were anything new.

They were flight logs. I mean, it's all a big lie. I don't get it. I'm not letting go of it, Danny. Me neither, Nancy. This is obviously PR for pardon. And Gilein Maxwell is a court-proven liar. Why are we asking her opinion on anything?

Why are we listening to her instead of the victims? And it's so disgusting that she calls Virginia Jufre a liar. Now that she's no longer with us. Meanwhile, Galane Maxwell herself settled a defamation lawsuit with Jufray. Why did she settle if apparently everything she says is lies? It's honestly just disgust. There's more. There is one thing on which I agree with Galane Maxwell.

It's about Epstein's suicide. It was no suicide. Listen. Investigation about that. Do you, so you think he was, he did not die by suicide given all the things we just talked about? I do not believe he died by suicide. And do you believe that, do you have any speculation or view of who killed him? No, I don't.

And I ask that because if you don't believe that there's any truth to the allegations of blackmail or that he had kind of a list or that he had reasons to have people hate him, why would somebody kill him in prison? In prison, where I am, they will kill you, or they will pay, somebody can pay a prisoner to kill you for $25 worth of commissary is about the going rate for a hit with a log today. Okay, she's talking bass backwards again. She's saying no suicide. I'm going to go to Joe Scott on that.

But Tisa tells, she's also saying, why would anybody kill him now? He's in jail. I mean, they'll kill you over $25. See, she just shot herself in the foot because he was about to go to trial and was in a perfect position to rat out very powerful and wealthy people to save his own skin. The perfect time to kill him. Not only the perfect time to kill him, but like you said, what is actually going on? When you listen to this, it is literally like she is in a. an episode of Matt Lips, you're telling me down the going break for a hit in jail is $25 on

the commissary. The fact that she is doing everything she can, like you said, to hide the truth. You have these softball questions. Basically, all she has to do is yes or no. You said you didn't do this. You said you didn't know. And we are sitting here watching her spin tales. When you listen to what she just said, the recording, you just said, she couldn't even believe herself. You were here to say, for $25, I guess what little bit of shame and guilt and self-awareness came up in that moment was she realized how ridiculous it is. Again, like all the guests have said and how you have said a million times, there is no regret, there's no remorse. And at the end of the day, they're even on the government side, which is really scary, there is no mention of the thousands of

alleged victims and confirmed that she left in her wake. Again, I keep going back to this. Why is this liar being allowed on actual legal terms to rewrite history when we have a whole trial proving that almost everything she says besides what her name is? That's the only thing she told the truth is 100% a lie. It's shocking and it's scary, but at this point, I'm side-eyeing the government. What is going on? What does she have on these people? Joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator with over a thousand death investigations under his belt, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit podcast series, Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan.

Joe Scott, he absolutely did not commit suicide. You believe that, I believe that, Dr. Michael Bodden believes that, esteemed medical examiners from across the country, believe it. In a nutshell, why do we know? He did not commit suicide. Because the hyoid is fractured is the biggest indicator for us. Rarely do you have fractured hyoids when it comes to hanging, okay? And here's another thing. You see the greater horn of the hyoid is fractured right there, that bit of bone that's broken away.

That's significant, Nancy. And here's why the nooses and hangings generally don't go up as high up in the neck to come in contact with the area surrounding the hyoid. So this is going to be superior to where the noose was actually positioned. Look, if you don't believe me, 60 minutes put the pictures out there. Go look for yourself. He has marks on his neck, Nancy, that run parallel to his shoulders. They don't go up underneath his chin up to where the hyoid acts as the anchor for the

tongue is the only non-articulating bone in the human body. It's fracture. In addition to that, the thyroid cartilage right here, you feel what the atoms apple is on either side of it, there's actually fracturing in the cartilage there. That's significant because that means that direct pressure would have had to have been applied here and also here above that area. And then you've got a ligature mark that is inferior to that. It runs parallel to the shoulders with hangings. We normally see it come to a V. This is in forensics.

This is what we call tenting feature, T-E-N-T-I-N-G. That means it supports it like this. It goes up. So an individual will hang like this. That ain't happening here. It doesn't appear that way. And I think that that, I would never presume to put words in Michael Biden's mouth, but just reading the room, I think that that's probably the conclusion he came to.

Additionally, for me, something that really stands out, Nancy, at the base of his neck on the posterior side, where the neck dumps him to the shoulder, there is a contusion back there. It's kind of, it's in a regular shape, it's a bruise, it got there. That's something that you don't see with hangings. Where in the world did this thing come from? And that's an anti-mortem or before-death insult that he has right here. I think they were friendly like people are in social sessions. I don't think they were close friends or I certainly never witnessed the president in any of I don't recall ever seeing him in his house for instance I actually never saw the president in any type of massage setting I never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way the president was never inappropriate with anybody in the times that I was with him he was a gentleman in all respects

crime stories with nancy grace do you know whether for example president clinton never received a massage i don't believe he did and what makes you say you don't believe he did well because i don't so that's a good question uh the time the epstein and president clinton spent together the only times I believe well obviously they traveled there was that you know they came they went on the plane 26 times or whatever

that would be one journey so they spent time on the plane together and I don't believe there was ever a massage on the plane so that would have been the only time that I think that President Clinton could have even received a massage and he didn't because I was there

okay so according to Galane Maxwell Trump as a gentleman and Clinton flew on Epstein's private plane 26 times. Okay, you know, I'm not going to decipher that right now because this is what I'm worried about. The files release hoax. I want the names of all the clients that were lured by Epstein to meet up and more with girls

as young as 12 years old, flown in from around the world. We were told there was going to be a big data dump, right, in the last three business days. But what exactly was in that data dump? Listen. Bondi delivered on a promise to turn over Epstein files to House Oversight, who says they are working on delivery for public release. But the committee is warning to manage expectations. Representative Rokana claims of thousands of pages of documents the committee received

less than 3% are never before seen. Representative Summer Lee claims the only new disclosure are flight log locations from 2000 to 2014, making up fewer than 1,000 pages of the documents. The rest is apparently recycled information already made public. Sydney Sumner, what is happening? Why are they lying to us? What are they trying to cover up? What are they trying to keep secret?

That was the campaign promise. Bondi has been promising it. day after day after day now they want us to just stop talking about it they actually said that stop talking about it so they have this huge data dump of the Epstein files but there's nothing new in there it's stuff they've already released they are sticking with that release statement from July saying they have reviewed all of the documents and everything that can and should be made public has already been made public and that just really does not make sense. I think who they're trying to protect here are all of the people that have been

named in conjunction. So not that they've actually done any wrongdoing, but their name came up early in the investigation all the way back in 2007. Whether police ever did anything with that, we don't know. So I think that they might be protecting holes in the investigation, things that they missed. I mean, there was 10 years in between the first and second attempted prosecution of Epstein, and there's no telling what he did in between those times. At this point, Rinkling is worried that they are protecting themselves from things they should have done in the original investigation that weren't done. So unfortunately, maybe what we're seeing maybe is the extent of the file, and there should have been more there and there isn't.

Okay, well, hold on just a moment. That's not true, because we were told at the beginning about voluminous videos from all of Epstein's homes and mansions, tens and tens of thousands of documents. We've interviewed the civil attorney for at least nine of the little girl victims who knows of corporate clients that Epstein's service. with these little girls? I mean, there is so much there. I'm very curious, Dr. Bethany Marshall. A, why the cover-up?

What could be so bad? I mean, I guess they think we're going to forget about it and just go away. But Dr. Bethany, doesn't this trigger more feelings of helplessness amongst the little girl victims now? That's one thing that victims have told me universally, separated in time and space, that it wasn't just the physical assault. It was the feeling of helplessness that just would never go away. Nancy, it's the helplessness, the guilt, the shame. But there's one other layer to this, Nancy, that is so profound in my mind.

Those girls likely have been stalked by Gillen, by Epstein, in order to procure more sex over the years. and what tools do perpetrators use to stock their victim? They use videos. They use photos. They use all that material that they gathered while the victim was under their roof so they can say, hey, little girl, you're not going to return my call? I'll release these videos to the public. So, Nancy, name one pedophile, one pedophile that we've covered that has not videotaped

audio taped, taken pictures of them having sex with their victims. Name one. They're not. They hold on to those videos to stock the victims and for masturbatory content so that they can relive the crime. So you cannot tell me that there is not a treasure trove of data out there. Okay, so Gillen Maxwell's statements, it's just a word salad. That is all it is. It means nothing.

she says one thing, then she contradicts herself. I don't even care about the log anymore. I want the photos. I want the videos. I want all that masturbatory material that they held on to and enjoyed for all those years. So I can see the faces, not just the written names on a plain log. I want the faces and the bodies with those girls. I want that the girl's bodies redacted out and those faces released to the public.

So we can see for ourselves. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast.