Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - EPSTEIN-PIMP GHISLAINE MAXWELL JAIL-SCANDAL, "MYSTERY MEN FACE CHARGES?"

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

Ghislaine Maxwell's most recent bid to overturn her 2021 sex‑trafficking conviction and 20‑year sentence, has been denied. The only path to freedom no is a presidential pardon.      Maxwell is serving her sentence at Federal Prison Camp Bryan in Bryan, Texas. She was moved to the minimum‑security facility last year. Several "scandals" have followed Jeffrey Epstein's closest confidante, claims that she is not eligible to be at Camp Bryan, claims that she is getting special treatment, including claims she has unlimited access to toilet paper. That is uncommon behind bars.  There is also the reported secret thumb drive Maxwell sent to the DOJ. Are there names of men connected to the Epstein scandal on it or just motions in a bid for release?   Joining Nancy Grace today:  Haley Robson - Jeffrey Epstein Survivor;  involved with  'The Survivors. Inc'  which supports survivors of sexual assault and human trafficking  Neama Rahmani  - Former federal prosecutor turned trial attorney, President of West Coast Trial Lawyers, Author: “Harvard to Hashtag”, WestCoastTrialLawyers.com, INSTAGRAM: @Neamarahmani, TWITTER: @NeamaRahmani   Dr. Chloe Carmichael - Clinical Psychologist, Author: ‘Nervous Energy: Harness The Power of Your Anxiety”, Twitter: @DrChloe, drchloe.com   Dani Pinter -  Chief Legal Officer, National Center on Sexual Exploitation, website: endsexualexploitation.org  Sydney Sumner - Investigative Reporter, ‘Crime Stories’ Dave Mack  - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto-pay. credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Tonight, Jeffrey Epstein Pimp, Geline Maxwell's jail scandal. This is 25 mystery men facing charges. Why aren't they in jail? And tonight, a secret thumb drive contains what information is it information powerful enough to equal a get-out-of-jail-free card for Epstein pimp Galane Maxwell? And tonight, joining us a special guest. An Epstein victim speaks out.

Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. Jelaine Maxwell gives a statement to the feds. It's nothing but a pack of lies. Liars tend to spin long. yarns and create unimportant details in order to make the lie more believable. So she starts off with saying there is no client list. What client is what?

Ms. Maxwell, did you at any time play any role in Jeffrey Epstein's activities involving my recruitment, grooming, or trafficking of young women or girls? I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence. Ms. Maxwell, have you ever coerce to run? for worse, directed, or otherwise instructed any young woman or girl to provide sexual favors to Mr. Epstein or any other individual. I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence. Ms. Maxwell, can you please provide us with all the names of other additional co-conspirators to the crimes perpetuated by you and Jeffrey Epstein? I invoke my Fifth Amendment right to silence.

shrouded in the Fifth Amendment, Will Gellane Maxwell finally cough up the names of 25 or more mystery men that could face charges. Again, joining us an all-star panel, including an Epstein survivor who is speaking out tonight. But first, to Sidney Sumner joining us, Crime Stories Investigative Reporter, and she is joining us outside the federal prison camp in Bryan, Texas. Sidney, explain to me the jailhouse scandal. Well, Nancy, almost a year ago, Galane Maxwell was transferred from a low security prison in Tallahassee to the prison camp directly behind me in Bryan, Texas. This is a low security prison camp, minimum security prison camp, where Galane has bottled water, an unlimited supply of toilet paper.

There's access to programs like a puppy. training program. There's other inmates who are allowed to learn vocations such as nursing and leave the property on a regular basis. And we're hearing things like she's getting extremely preferential treatment, walking down the entire prison anytime she has visitors. I understand she's wearing cashmere whistleblower accounts emerge alleging she's getting preferential treatment, isolation from roommates, cell privacy, modification, special visit hours,

extra supplies. Now, the Bureau of Prisons is not even bothering to deny it. They're claiming she gets all of these special perks for safety measures. What did you say about toilet paper? Not that that's my big concern tonight,

but what did you say? Well, Maxwell is apparently afforded an unlimited supply of toilet paper, while other inmates, when They run out, they run out for the month, and they're using paper towels. And the most disturbing part about this, Nancy, is that Maxwell does not qualify to be in this prison camp. To qualify to be transferred here, you typically have to have less than 10 years left on your sentence. Maxwell has 16, and she has violent criminal history.

She has been convicted of sex trafficking. This is usually reserved for white-collar crime, no violence involved. So two big things that should prevent Maxwell from being in this prison were completely overlooked. So it's unclear who exactly made the call to move her to this prison, but it definitely came from very high up. Okay, tell me the two reasons she should not be there again, said. Maxwell has 16 years left of that 20-year sentence. This is typically reserved for inmates with less than 10 years left to serve. And she is convicted of sex trafficking.

That is a violent offense that precludes an inmate from being housed in a minimum security facility like this. Sydney Sumner is joining us tonight from the Bryan Federal Prison Camp. Sydney, what more can you tell me about the prison camp behind you? Well, we know that there's only one guard overnight. Inmates are allowed to leave the property for work to learn vocations. There's yoga classes. Service dogs are trained here. Inmates could literally walk out the front gate if they chose to.

Would that be a good decision? No. But that's the level of security we're seeing here. joining us tonight is a special guest. It's Healey Robson, an Epstein survivor. She is part of an organization called the Survivors, Inc. supporting sex assault and trafficking survivors. Healy, I'm just curious what your reaction is to Galane Maxwell's, and there's more to it, her prison scandal over, let me just say, against all existing rules. She is a sex trafficker convicted. That's a violent crime. You, of all people, can speak to that violence.

Why is she at Bryan? I have said this since the very beginning. And when I was at the Capitol Hill, I brought it to not only the Democratic Party, but I've said this in front of several individuals in Congress on both sides of the spectrum. And I've said, why are we not putting Galane Maxwell back in prison? Todd Blanche keeps denying that he went down there and made a deal with her, which doesn't make sense to me considering this she should automatically be precluded from this type of environment when she has created a or committed a extremely violent act and not just an extremely violent act, an act against children and young women.

It's absurd. I'm not buying it. Todd Blanche can go choke on a cactus with this whole entire administration. the jig is up, we know there was a deal to be made. And if I am absolutely wrong, then put her back in prison. Why has that not been done yet? How come we don't know who made that deal? Who made that phone call? And on top of that, this happened in Florida. So furthermore, I want to know on a state level,

who was involved in making that deal or who at least knew about it. Who knew she was being moved? This is absolutely absurd. I'm also curious about that secret thumb drive to Nima Romani joining us, former federal prosecutor turned trial lawyer, president West Coast trial lawyers, author of Harvard to hashtag. Anima, thank you for being with us tonight.

This whole thing stinks. I've got so much to cover. I hate to belabor this point. But why is Galane Maxwell, who is a convicted sex trafficker? And you heard her. I played at the very beginning taking the Fifth Amendment. She's asked to name other names of those powerful men that were part of Epstein's sex trafficking ring. She wouldn't name them.

She's protecting them. Yet she's getting a cushy environment with cashmere outfits walking around under an umbrella so she doesn't get a tan. Getting to train puppies. I mean, isolated her own private room. And it goes on and on, even her own private supply of toilet paper. I know that's a small thing to you, but the fact that she is getting preferential treatment and refusing to name these 25 or more guys, we've been told they've already gotten deals. What deal?

And then you've got people like Haley Robson, who was a sex trafficking victim of Epstein's, and this pimp who's there in a cushy jail going, why? Nobody's telling me anything. It's wrong, Nima. I agree with you, Nancy. Thanks for having me. Haley. My heart goes out to you and the other victims. Look, what's happening to Gielaine Maxwell and her placement by the BOP Bureau of Prisons is shameful. And it happened shortly after now Attorney General Todd Blanche met with her and interviewed her. And criminals have lied, but no one has lied like Gielaine Maxwell.

Now, if you're trying to unpack her habeas petition, it's patently frivolous. The only way that she's going to ever get out of prison before her 20 years are up is she gets a presidential pardon. So she's using these 25 men as a basis to say that she was selectively prosecuted and these other men were not. And maybe those other men should be prosecuted. But we know that's not a legal defense. She was an active participant in sex trafficking. Recrued these young girls for Jeffrey Epstein. She's lucky she's only doing 20 years.

She should be spending the rest of her life in federal prison, Nancy, and not. in our car. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com. DA for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Back to Sydney Sunners joining us outside Brian Federal Prison Camp. Even few of the locals know about the camp's newest resident, sex trafficker, pimp, Galane Maxwell. Is it true, Sydney, that the grounds are dotted with live oak trees? some of the facilities left over from the property's history as a hunting lodge. School buses go by the camp. Roosters crow a couple of blocks away.

It sounds like a bucolic, idyllic setting. For a sex trafficker, are you kidding me? I'm standing in front of a home, Nancy. This is a neighborhood. There are homes all the way across on every side of the prison. And yes, of course, school buses come through here. People bring mail, dropping off packages. This is a neighborhood.

It's very residential. So it's outrageous that a convicted sex offender, a violent offender, is being housed here. And on top of all of the other preferential treatment, we've already discussed, the warden apparently hand-delivers Maxwell's mail back and forth all of the time. And we've seen emails published Maxwell describing how much happier she is here, how the staff are so accommodating. and polite to her. Those emails indicated that she has regular contact with the warden, which is extremely unusual for inmates in federal prison. And again, that visit where she had someone come in, the entire prison was shut down. Visiting was canceled for all other inmates. There was a specific section for this visitor to join her, and they were provided with water,

coffee, and snacks. That's a lot better than the vending machine that all of these other families get. You know, Sydney, it's amazing, and I don't believe minimum is right or appropriate or fair for Galane Maxwell because of how much harm she did to other people. Young girls, look at her taking the Fifth Amendment right there. She's a Brit, but she's enjoying our constitutional protections, and she's dodging, naming 25 mystery men connected to this case hiding behind the fifth. Amendment. And this prison camp is home to other celebs, Elizabeth Holmes, founder of Theranos, Jen Shaw, Real Housewives, and more. It's cushy. It's not fair. And we've been told that the warden is basically Galane Maxwell's private secretary to Danny Pinter joining us. You know her well.

Danny is the chief legal officer for the National Center on Sex Exploitation. Danny, jump in. Yeah, I mean, I think this is just appalling, unjust. And what's so shocking about Maxwell's petition is her just narcissistic arrogance, right? She still thinks she's a victim of the system. She shows utter disdain for the victims. And she believed that if she points the fingers at these 25 other men, that somehow vindicates her. But thankfully, Judge Engelmeyer did not agree. And Nemo Romani, following up with what Danny Pinter just said, she is still, Galane Maxwell is still holding the 25, and I believe for others, I think there's 29. The 25 to 25 names of other men involved in Epstein sex trafficking, she's holding them

close to the vest. She has not revealed them. Why? Why? Think. Think, think, think, thinking, Romani. She's got a reason for not spitting those names out yet. Well, she should cooperate because that's really the only way that she's going to get that sentence down under 5K of the guidelines, unless she really thinks that she's going to get some sort of presidential party. I know she's angling for it. There's no way that this habeas petition has any chance of success. She's already exhausted her direct appeals. So she thinks that this is somehow leverage that can be used politically. I would be shocked. if President Trump pardons her. He's been very liberal when his pardons, but this would be probably one of the worst pardons

in presidential history. So there must be some reason she's keeping this information. If she were to provide it, obviously, that would help bring other perpetrators to justice and potentially reduce her sentence. She is the answer. The person that connects those other men to Jeffrey Epstein. I don't believe for a second

that there aren't other people that should be processed. prosecuted for this sex trafficking, even though the DOJ last year issued a memo saying there's no legal basis to do so, Nancy. Haley Robson is joining us. She's an Epstein survivor. How does it strike you that Galane Maxwell is reportedly holding on to the names of 25 to 29, at least men that were involved in Epstein's sex trafficking scheme? Holding back for, I guarantee you, some sort of personal gain to get a bit of.

better place to stay. Now, I think it's bigger than that. I think it's about a pardon or more, even a reversal. I've said this since the very beginning when Trump and his entire administration backed down and did a bait and switch and decided not to pursue releasing the files. I definitely think that there's already a pardon being worked in. That was part of the deal, in my opinion, and in my conclusion, when Todd Blanche went and spoke to her, I definitely think that was something that was discussed. I think there was a deal to be made. I, 100% agree that this would be the worst pardoned president in the history of the United States of America could ever give someone. However, given the degree of what's been going on and all the favoritism and support and just everything that Elaine's been given, mercy, grace, I mean, it's insanity to me.

So I do think he's going to pardon her. I think she's a disgusting human being. I think she's worse than Jeffrey. And what really aggravates me above everything else is when this alleged move happened and she was transferred out to this prison camp in Texas, I heard that she got her child sex registry dropped. And I don't know if that was true or accurate information, but I will say the fact that she's able to be in a facility where there's a neighborhood's kids, schools, it is insult to injury, please. It is disgusting what they are giving her. And she deserves nothing of it. And the fact that she's sitting on 24 or 25 names goes to prove that this woman is not remorseful.

She does not care. She definitely has cards in her hand that she's willing to play to get that pardon or to get out early. And I think it's a disgrace that anybody would even entertain anything this woman has to say after she's perjured herself so many times. shame on her. She is disgusting beyond. Haley, I've got a question. And I almost hate to bring it up,

but I have to. Because her in this cushy jail and getting all of this preferential treatment, after what Epstein, and she was part of that, did to you? What happened to you, Haley? My story is very complex and I was recruited into this by another classmate and an adult male who was 20 at the time and I was sexually abused on occasion and I was then forced to come into this organization, this crime and didn't knowing or understand what was really truly happening and ended up getting sucked into a trafficking ring where I was being abused.

and then committing self-harm by bringing other people into the system, which 90% of Jeffrey Epstein victims brought in other girls. That was part of the abuse. And for him to then have him and Galane, you know, just not be able to come forward and just plea the fifth. It's disgusting and they know what they've done. Not to just me. It wasn't just the abuse either, Nancy.

You're talking about years of smear campaigns. You're talking about years of attacking Virginia Jufre, years of attacking myself, years of coming after any victim or any girl that spoke out against their crimes. And they are both evil human beings and to see the government to not fully understand the impact. And if they did fully understand the impact, she wouldn't be in a summer camp. She would be back in prison with no security. And this has been an issue for, oh God, five administrations. And we finally got to this point. And I feel like we're just stuck.

And I see this every day in the media when I see Survivor sisters out there speaking. It's like we're stuck in the trauma because our government is holding us hostage. They are furthering what Jeffrey and Galang did to us. Ellie, how old were you when you were targeted by everyone? Epstein. I was a 16-year-old high school student. I was a junior in high school. I was 16. I was a teenager. Dr. Chloe Carmichael joining us, clinical psychologist, author of Nervous Energy. Dr. Chloe, thank you for being with us. Way in. Well, thanks, Nancy. Yeah. I mean, it really does make my blood boil to see her in this fancy, you know, so-called prison. Because part of what she and, Jeffrey Epstein even seemed to trade on in the first place is the idea that they're special,

that they're different, that they're above other people, and that they have this bubble of luxury and untouchability that surrounds them wherever they go. And to see that continue, even in this incarceration, is I'm sure very harmful, as Haley said, infuriating and insulting to the injury to the victims. But it's also, I think, really bad for society to see that, you know, that this treatment and this grandiosity is even continuing here. And as for her keeping this information, it doesn't surprise me at all. Frankly, if I can say it almost reminds me of like a reptile brain where they just have these instincts about survival. Trading on information of powerful men and keeping secrets and using them as leverage is in her blood. It is in her DNA.

So the idea that even now she's trading and leveraging on that information is very sick, but not at all surprising. Can you commit that the Justice Department, you, the acting Attorney General, will not recommend a pardon for people named in the Epstein files? When you say people named, there's tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of, quote, people named. How about Jelaine Maxwell? Can you commit that you will. Yes, I can commit to that, of course. What this act did is it required us to review over six million pieces of paper in a very short period of time. And so 0.001 percent, we made mistakes and we owned up to them. And the second that a victim or their lawyer told us that we made a mistake, we pulled that document down,

and we put lawyers 24-7 in being responsive to victims and their lawyers to make sure that we fixed every single problem. It's frankly horrifying that Trump would entertain the idea of clemency for each other. even a second, even a second for convicted sex trafficker. That alone should be enough for the Senate to speak up with one voice and affirm that there should be absolutely no pardon for Galane Maxwell. Not now, not ever. From our friends at Fox, straight back out to Sydney Sumner, standing by there at the Bryan Federal Prison Camp in Texas.

It looks like a residential, actually a Tony residential area. many people believe that Todd Blanche personally oversaw Gilling Maxwell's transfer to a more lenient, cushy facility because after she's found guilty, she got 20 years behind bars. Then Blanche, highly unusual, personally interviewed her. Remember, when the whole jail was shut down? And just days later, she's transferred to Branche. Brian. That's absolutely correct. People completely believe that Blanche is behind this. This transfer violates several policies laid out by the BOP. So it's ridiculous that this happened in

the first place, but yes, many people believe Blanche is behind this and he denies it. They say that this was for safety measures only. Because she cooperated, because she met with him, she would have faced violence had she stayed in that low security prison versus being moved to this minimum security prison where there are no other violent offenders. So that is the official statement on why she was moved here. But it definitely feels like she got a little pat on the back for her statements in that interview that claim Trump is completely innocent of any kind of allegations regarding connections to Epstein's sex trafficking ring. Does it all boil down to what is on that thumb drive that she

handed over to the feds. Is she keeping the names of 25 to 29 other individuals a secret? Are they some sort of bargaining chip? Straight back out to Epstein victim. Haley, I understand

that Epstein and Galeigh Maxwell victims have gotten together and created their own witness list and that list has got to contain names of other men that attacked them, that took advantage of Galane Maxwell and Epstein's sex trafficking ring. You have to be able to identify some of these guys. Why are they walking free, Haley? Well, I will say this. Thomas Massey, I saw, went to the house floor and started reading

some names, which ironically, a lot of those names were already public. There was one name that was allegedly involved and his name was not on the list and I'm going to say that name till I'm blue in the face because of what he did to Virginia Jufre, Ehud Barak, which I find to be extremely ironic because at one point I believe that he and Jeffrey lived together. But beyond that point, this is what they have been fearing and, you know, the reckoning is here. Everybody in America standing up asking for these files and wanting to expose these names. And it's, If my survivor sisters, they already know if you want to go public and start naming names, I will stand in solidarity with you.

I will stand in solidarity with anybody who wants to name names. I'm not scared. I'm not going to be silenced or live in fear anymore. I am so sick and tired of the hypocrisy in this country. I am so sick and tired of the lack of justice and I'm tired of feeling like I have to fight for my life in a situation that should be a no-brainer for anybody over the age of like, I don't know, And it's insane to me that Todd Blanche could even have the audacity to continue his lies. I mean, the survivors are not believing him.

We don't believe him. We don't trust him. How many people are implicated? How powerful or wealthy are they? Is that why their names have not been publicized? Why they are not being prosecuted? Do you know whether, for example, President Clinton never received a massage? I don't believe he did.

And what makes you say you don't believe he did? Well, because I don't, so that's a good question. The time that Epstein and President Clinton spent together, the only time, I believe, well, obviously they traveled. There was that, you know, became, they went on the plane 26 times, or whatever. That would be one journey. So they spent time on the plane together,

and I don't believe there was ever a massage on the plane. So that would have been the only time that I think that President Clinton could have even received a massage and he didn't because I was there. I don't believe that's correct. That was not the only time that President Clinton rode on Epstein's private plane. Why am I even putting U.S. President in the same sentence with Epstein's plane and massage? I mean, you know, there's more. Listen. And did you ever hear Mr. Epstein or anybody say that,

President Trump had done anything inappropriate with masseuses or with anybody in your world? Absolutely, never. In any context. Do you know whether masseuses from Mar-a-Lago spa ended up giving massages to, private massages to Mr. Epstein? I'm not asking what you may have read, but at the time, from your personal knowledge, do you know whether that's true? I don't, I don't recall. Is it possible? Yes.

But I don't remember, I don't remember that. So I don't want to, I don't recall that, but it's possible. Oh, my stars. She doesn't remember organizing massages. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full?

or come home at all. And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. According to every single victim, Nima Romani, she did.

They're all lying and she's telling the truth. And I am not naming any of these powerful people as co-defendants. I'm saying that. I am saying that Galane Maxwell and Epstein moved in very rarefied circles, Nima. Very rarefied, wealthy, powerful people that I believe Galane Maxwell is covering for. Why? Not because she cares about them because there's something. it for her. Well, clearly. And look, let's go back to the original sweetheart deal that Epstein got

when Alex Acosta was U.S. attorney. My former Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz came down and got him a state disposition. I could tell you, Nancy, when I was a fed, I put a thousand people in prison, and I never once gave a state disposition in any case. So from the beginning, he's gotten special treatment. Obviously, he's dead. She's still getting special treatment right now. That's just the reality in this country, it's not right, it's not the law. But when you are rich, when you are politically well-connected, the legal system is going to treat you differently. And that's exactly what we're seeing in the Epstein abuse case. Danny Pinter joining us, Danny, there is no way that there are not other people involved. I mean, it's sex trafficking. The victim is sent from one man to the

next, to the next, to the next. That's what trafficking is. I have investigated and prosecuted sex trafficking, child sex trafficking, as this is. Did you hear Haley state she was 16 when she was recruited into this? She was assaulted. She was sex assaulted and forced to recruit other young girls. Yet, what about all those guys? These victims can identify them. Why aren't they being prosecuted? And there she is in that cushy jail in the middle of a residential neighborhood. It's absolutely shocking. I mean, what makes sex trafficking, sex trafficking is procuring people for commercial sex. So it's already been proven that Maxwell was involved in procuring these victims for other people. When we hear that there's 25 other men that were able to cut a deal, that the DOJ, you know, proactively immunized at least for unindicted potential criminal. involved in this means we know that there are other co-conspirators. We know that there's other individuals involved and they should be prosecuted. It all begs the question as to why the rich

and powerful, why this celebrity predator is being treated especially when it was the power and celebrity that allowed her and Epstein and others to predate on these victims and to get protection at the highest levels in the first place. Well, one reason that many are remaining silent is because people connected to Epstein and Galane Maxwell drop like flies. 22 or more at the last count, dead under suspicious circumstances, the last one, Virginia Jafray, dead. I mean, I'm confused about that because Haley joining us and Epstein Survivor, Virginia

Juffray had just won a multi-million dollar case, right? Because of suffering at the hands of Epstein at the hands of Galane Maxwell. Millions of dollars, she had a beautiful home. It was all coming together, not all

falling apart, and then she turns up dead from suicide. She's one of at least 22. No wonder people are clamming up. You make some valid points. It was really hard coming out as a survivor when I started to learn about how many of the girls were committing suicide or had lost their life. I don't know about any of the other cases. I can only speak on Virginia. I did speak at her memorial.

I think one of the important factors that I just, I want to relay this message to the world is, you know, what you see us in public is not the same as how you see us behind closed doors. We all have lives that we have to live aside from Jeffrey. And when you're dealing with such severe sexual trauma, it is very hard to recover from it. And sometimes when you're not in the healing process, you stop growing. And what makes my heart hurt the most out of all of this is these 25 other men who abused, raped, and tortured the victims of Jeffrey Epstein get to walk free. knowing they get to continue their daily life, their daily exercises, their daily work meetings. And yet we have survivors of mass trafficking dying every few months because they can't stand up for themselves because they are hurting internally and they have nowhere to go to because our government is watching us drown.

They are sitting back and watching us drown and the adults have yet to show up for us. and we are still here. We are still waiting for those adults. What about it, Dr. Chloe Carmichael? It's important to remember that there's three purposes for the justice system. When we put someone in jail, there's three purposes. One is retribution. One is prevention.

And the other is rehabilitation. It's failing on all three fronts here because obviously this is not helping just laying to get over her grandiosity. And as far as prevention, I think there are some serious questions about whether they are being prevented from, you know, continuing to influence people or continue to wield power in ways that they should not. And being put in such a cushy prison in the first place, I hardly think is the comeuppance and retribution that would be appropriate in a situation like this. Nima Romani, is there any legal way to get those names of other individuals?

We know of 25 to 29. But you know, there are hundreds and hundreds more. So when you're talking about these individuals that are named, they've been named in civil lawsuits. Obviously, no one's been prosecuted. I don't know what I don't know. But the Epstein Files Transparency Act calls for the DOJ to release everything, unless it's information that identifies victims of sex abuse like Haley.

But there's no other legal basis to withhold documents. They've asserted different types of privileges like the executive privilege, deliberative process privilege. I mean, there's no reason for the DOJ to hold back millions and millions of pages. Congress passed this law demanding action, and I'm not sure the DOJ has complied fully with the law. And it's a huge public trust issue, Nancy. This is something that Pam Bondi says.

before she was appointed Attorney General. Todd Blanche said, both before Congress and publicly, and even the president has said. And there are millions of pages that have been held back, that have been redacted. And I think there's a reason that people don't trust our Department of Justice, and it's in large part because of how they've mishandled, really botched the Epstein files. To Dave Mack joining us, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, there are, by my last count, 22.

unusual suicides and or deaths connected to the Epstein case. What can you tell me? The one that always gets me, Nancy, Joe Rickerry, he is the lead Palm Beach police detective who actually spearheaded the initial investigation against Jeffrey Epstein and the only real prosecution that happened. And then he was pulled totally out of it when they gave him the cushy negotiated plea, right? Well, he died. And at the end, of 50, okay? As all of this was bubbling to the surface and all of the deal stuff was coming out, he just dies at the age of 50. There were plenty of others from Roy Black to Ken the Star, but, and then the suicides, like Virginia Juffray and others, Jean-Luc Brunel. The alleged suicides?

Yes. Yeah, I apologize. The alleged suicides. There's so many more. There's John Luke Brunel. He ran the French modeling agency. He was hanged. in Paris, he was Epstein's French counterpart. He trafficked girls in France. There was the movie producer, Stephen Bing. He allegedly jumped from the 27th floor from his LA apartment after talking to the FBI about Epstein. There is Thomas Bowers who ran Deutsche Bank. He was hanged in his home. His bank, his wealth management division, moved money for Epstein. I mean, It goes on and on and on. So many, up to 22 or more people connected to Epstein,

have odd, suspicious deaths. But tonight, the question is, who are these 25 to 29 guys out of hundreds? Hundreds of, there's no better way to put it, Johns, hundreds of Johns that ran through the trafficking mill, run by Galane Maxwell if you know

or think you know anything regarding this case please dial toll-free 800-2-25-5-324 or 888-373-7888 tonight we remember an American hero Sergeant Kent Swanson Shelley PD

Idaho passed away in the line of duty after 16 years serving and protecting, leaving behind his grieving wife, Shelly, and children, Keegan and Sabry, American hero, Sergeant Kent Swanson. Thank you to our guest tonight, especially Haley Robson, joining us Epstein Survivor. Nancy Gray, signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow and I, and until then. Good night, friend. This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human.