Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - EPSTEIN TRAFFICKING-VICTIM FIGHTS BACK

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

At 21, a former model was assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein on a trip to his island, starting a pattern that would last for years.  Lisa Phillips, joins Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, to discuss the way women and young girls are manipulated, and what she learned from other survivors. Lisa hopes more names associated with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell will be released.  Joining Nancy Grace today, Lisa Phillips - Epstein Survivor, was on Capitol Hill last week meeting with members of Congress about the release of the “Epstein Files,” and Host of the podcast "From Now On;" Instagram, Facebook & YouTube: @FromNowOnPodSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A Jeffrey Epstein victim fights back, and tonight tells her story. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. So I was on a photo shoot in early 2000, and another young, blonde Polish model said, you know, I have a friend who owns Ireland. He's been so wonderful to me.

He got me my visa to live in the United States. I just said, okay, sure, I'll go with you. A young blonde girl knocked on my door and told myself that Jeffrey needed a massage. A massage. Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. A massage with Jeffrey Epstein turns into full on rape. Why is someone covering for Jeffrey Epstein? Why have we been lied to over and over?

over and over. When I say the U.S. attorney, a lot of people are like, what's the U.S. attorney? The U.S. attorney is the top cop for our nation, our whole country. Now, state to state, you may have one or more U.S. attorneys. They are federal prosecutors appointed to prosecute the state's business and represent victims. For instance, in Georgia, there are three, the northern, middle, and southern district U.S. attorneys. In every state, there are U.S. attorneys, and they are all governed by one, the U.S. attorney.

Now, I want you to hear what the U.S. attorney, Bondi, said, about having a client list in all the S-Team files. right on her desk. Okay, listen. The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen? It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.

It goes on and on and on, but that's the pertinent part. And that is from our friend John Roberts over at Fox News. We were told there's video, there are flight logs, there are names of clients. Now we're being told, yeah, I don't know why I said that. Don't listen to me. That's wrong. But tonight joining us is a woman that knows better. Now, who are we going to believe? Her or Bondi? What is the truth? At this hour, as we go to air tonight, victims, Epstein victims, are banding together to create a climate. list. I'm going to get to that in just a moment. But first, I want to introduce you a very special guest. A Jeffrey Epstein survivor. I hate to always say victim because Lisa Phillips

has gone on to become a warrior. Yes, she's a mother of three. Yes, she's a gorgeous former Ford agency model. Yes, she's been in a major, most, picture among many things. Any given Sunday, a lot of people have seen that. She's in it. She's beautiful. She's accomplished. She's articulate. She's also a Jeffrey Epstein victim now survivor slash warrior. Lisa, thank you for being with us. Thank you, Nancy. And thank you for calling me a warrior. That means so much to me, especially in this climate right now. You are. You know, all over our country, Lisa, sex attack victims don't speak out for a number of reasons. I mean, I could rattle off many, many cases that I personally investigated and prosecuted

where the victim did not want to come forward for so many different reasons. Okay. I had one victim that was repeatedly raped, ag assaulted. and locked into a car trunk and she and her culture believed to be raped was taboo and that she was the bad person that it was all her fault

so on the stand and her husband was sitting there she did not want him or anybody else to know she was raped we could talk about the ag assault the beating the tying of the hands the putting in the trunk but we couldn't talk about the rape she would not admit it

even though she secretly told people she was raped and the rape kit nurse agreed she had been raped. So, I mean, there's a million reasons why victims don't come forward. Sometimes they're afraid. Sometimes like in your case, we already know, I've estimated between five and 20 people have died connected to the Epstein case. So you are representing victims of assault and attack and they're listening to you tonight and they're looking at you and they're seeing you speak out. I want to go back in time.

Oh, by the way, did I mention Lisa is a host of a hit podcast called From Now On, where she interviews other crime victims and talks about moving forward. Now, let's talk about moving forward the Jeffrey Epstein case. How did you meet Jeffrey Epstein? may he rot in hell?

Well, I just want to say thank you for that intro. The survivors are here because we are fed up, and we are not victims. We do not like to be called victims. We are survivors, and what that means is we are on the path of healing and making choices that will move the investigation along because we feel like we

have answers that can help. And so this whole time we're thinking, wait a second, you know this person, you saw this person, you were at the island, you were there, how can we connect the dots?

And so that's what we realized, you know what, we're taking our power back. Because what happened to me on that island back in 2000 should have never happened. I was brought there by another young girl,

and that was the genius of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring as he got other girls and young women to bring more. And there was just layers and layers of girls, as you hear of the young Florida girls. They all were brought there by other young underage girls. And the same with me on the island.

I was brought there by another girl in her early 20s who thought Jeffrey was the world. She was groomed to think that. But, you know, she convinced me, oh, it's not a big deal to jump on a boat and go over to an island and see this wonderful person and hang out for the day. So that's what I did.

So when you flew, when you were flown to the island, what did you think was going to happen, Lisa? Nancy, I took a boat to the island because I was next, I was at Tortola, the island next door. Hold on. That's significant. Why is that significant how you got to the island? Because a lot of these girls as young as 12 years old were brought in from other countries,

particularly the Stans, Uzbekistan, from Turkey, from Russia. They were flown, yes, to the mainland, and then they were put on a ferry that ferried them over to Epstein's Island in the U.S. Virgin Islands, by the way, is under U.S. jurisdiction. So we can prosecute cases there. You're right. I'm glad you said that because when I try a case, I like to corroborate my witness. Because every victim is going to be attacked on cross-examination. And we just saw that in the Sean Combs case.

The two victims had photos and videos of them being beaten, covered in bruises. They described vomiting after attacks in the shower and being forced out back into a freak-off party, i.e. rape. Even then the jury believed that they were on the take, that this was all about them getting some kind of money settlement. So long story short, I try to corroborate victims, even when I believe them for the jury. What you just said is what all these then little girls said. They were flown to the mainland and then they were ferried to the island. Is that an element of proof of a of a felony? No, but it corroborates their story. So tell me how that worked. Every fact is important, Lisa. So you're flown to the mainland and then you take a ferry. Is that what

you're saying? Yes. Yes. Basically the same thing. I was on the U.S. version islands as well and as well and taken by boat over to his island. What kind of boat? Like a ferry boat. So somebody picked you up at a dock. You got on. They took you over and they dropped you off at an appointed spot. that correct? That's correct. That is exactly what the other victims say. Victims you haven't even spoken to or you don't know their names. So amazing how your stories already are like a fingerprint story. They fit exactly. Okay. You get to Epstein's Island and what happens? Well, Nancy, that's the reason why I started speaking out in the first place is because when I would hear the victim's story, I would say, wait a second, that happened to me too.

you know, so it would happen over and over what that would happen to me or, you know, I can, I can, I can stand up for them. You know, I can be the one to stick up for them. That's what I was thinking in the beginning, but it hasn't really turned out that way. So on the island, we actually had a really good time on the island for the first several hours hanging out in the pool. And, you know, we had a wonderful dinner where I met Jeffrey Epstein. And Jeffrey is charming. And he's very, very, very. intelligent and he's locked in on you he already knew all the other young girls at the table so he locked in on me you know I had grown up in Oxford England as a child and so we had that connection and I knew a lot about art and I had traveled around the world quite a bit already at that point and so we had a lot to talk about and he said he found me fascinating and he said I was had a powerful presence he said all these wonderful things to me and he just built me up. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hold on, hold on. You were a Ford model for 12 years. You don't know when some man is blowing smoke up your skirt. You have a powerful presence. What does that even mean? Well, I wasn't a Ford model yet.

I wasn't a Ford model yet. And I was like, you know, I had grown up. I had left, I graduated high school in Belgium with 50 people. So I was a little naive. And also I didn't have that confidence that a lot of girls, that have wonderful fathers that are calling them every day and building them up and saying I'm proud of you and I had I think low self-esteem when it came to men because I just didn't have that father-daughter relationship that was powerful and strong and made me feel confident

I think I just always felt a little worthless and that you know I could never be enough for my family or for my father and so wait a minute you Lisa Phillips okay do I have the right Lisa Phillips, this is the woman that started in any given Sunday and is four model 12 years and the la la la and you felt insecure. What does that, I mean, what does that leave me and everybody else just as mere mortals? Okay, so you feel insecure. So you, and we're very young and a very sheltered upbringing. So when someone talks to you like that and gives you this attention, you're still what, what were you 21? Yeah, that was in my early 20s, yes. I wasn't You were flattered.

You were flattered. You said something earlier about the genius of Jeffrey Epstein, how he would get young girls to bring in other girls. And I want to everyone to keep in mind that the young girls were very often as young as 13. Now, you just said something that again echoes exactly. what other Epstein victims have said. I want you to listen. Listen to this. And when I got into the massage room, Jeffrey Epstein,

undressed and asked me to do things to him. My eyes welled up with tears, and I have never been more scared in my life. When it was over, he paid me $200 and requested an exchange that I bring a girl each time to make another $200. I told him I did not want to do that, and then he gave me an ultimatum. I felt in hope to never hear from him again, but he called me every day. He was so wealthy and powerful, and he would not let me go.

I felt I had no choice. If I disobeyed him, I knew something bad would happen. That's exactly what Lisa Phillips is saying she observed in a completely different location at a different time. Now, what you were hearing is from at rep Thomas Massey on X, And you were hearing Haley Robson talking about when she first met Epstein, she was a little girl, and he raped her, gave her $200, like throwing down a $20 at the Waffle House, you know, big man, throwing around $200 to a little girl. And he was asking the little girl, now adult Hallie Robson, to bring other little girls in for him to rape. And I want you to hear what happened. I started to bring him other girls from my high school, and he paid me $200, $200 for bringing them.

I just hoped each time it would be the last time. One day, the stepmom of one of the girls brought him and called the police on Jeffrey Epstein. The police then called me, called me in for questioning. I had told them the truth despite the fact that I was a teenager and a minor, and I was able to tell the police the names of all the other victims. And she goes on, Lisa, to state, the police. made me feel like I was the criminal because I as a girl had brought him other girls, but he made me. And somehow she turns into the bad person and he doesn't get prosecuted

down there in Palm Beach County. Again, that's from at rep Thomas Massey on X. That mirrors exactly what you called the genius, I guess evil genius of Jeffrey Epstein. It was. It was evil genius. He had it down so good that he made the girls feel guilty for bringing other girls. But he made you do that. And like she said, he would call you every day. His secretaries would call every single day. They would hound you. When I got back from the island, they hounded me for four months straight every day until I would change my mind to go in and meet with him again.

Okay, wait a minute. Let me circle back to when you met with him. first time. So we left off with you being told you had a powerful presence. I mean, right there, I would say, no, got to go. Powerful presence, my rear end. But what happened after that? Jeffrey always said things to build you up. So he was more of a mentor to a lot of these girls. When we were sitting together at Capitol Hill, you have to understand it's a very confusing thing because, you know, his grooming process is to eventually abuse you. But in between, he's like a wonderful mentor. So he builds you up the way you've never been built up

before. Wait, wait, whoa, hold on. Lisa. Let's about your dreams and your operations. Jeffrey Epstein, a mentor. Okay, wait a minute. I know he promised to get people jobs and modeling gigs and parts on movies. Did he ever come through with? any of that? 100%. I've never spoken to anyone in his world that he didn't come through on everything he said. That's the reason why he got away with everything, because he made everything happen. So he would set people up with gigs and get them actual jobs. Well, I don't know about gigs, but if you were interested in law, he helped you out. If you're interested in art, he helped you out with getting a position in art gallery. I know TV hosts, actresses, many women

who have successful businesses because of Jeffrey. Actually, I know many that have husbands because of Jeffrey as well. So he did do a lot of good things for you because he had to because that's how he was able to. And all you had to do is let him rape you. Yeah, I mean, he was also very sneaky about that with massages. It was always a massage. It was always a real massage. You know, so that's what these girls are saying.

I was hoping it was the last time that I would have this massage. And then sometimes a massage would turn into molestation or rape. Jeffrey's ready for his massage. I just was like, what are you talking about? What massage? The other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes, you know, massages. You just, you have to do it. I was trapped on the island.

I didn't know where to go. I just, you know, follow the girl into his room to do the massage with this other young girl. And I ended up being abused on that island. So, guys, Lisa Phillips with us tonight. Just amazing. Beautiful, articulate, brilliant, has seen the world. and is a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein. You know, I was just thinking about, as I was rattling off all your accomplishments earlier,

what do you make of so many Epstein victims dying? I feel like we're in Russia. Whenever anyone speaks ill of Putin, they suddenly jump out a window and die, or they get poison, and die. A lot of suicides connected to Putin. I mean, I'm going to go hide under the bed after tonight. but what do you make of so many people I can count off five just on my off the top of my head but I've read other reports up in the 20s I mean you've got Virginia Jifrey you have Jean-Luc Brunei that was his French counterpart Brunel his French counterpart I mean there's so many and other reports up to 20 do you ever think about that you have three boys to raise. Yeah.

And victims are dropping like flies before they can testify. Does that concern you? Well, I mean, I knew Virginia. And I've spoken a lot to her family and all of her friends and survivors. And unfortunately, there's quite a few survivors that have passed away. But, I mean, I hope it wasn't anything darker. But what we believe with the cycle of abuse is it's something that you just never get over and it torments you. And certain individuals, they can't take it and they can't take their

life. And like Virginia, she was fighting so hard to bring these powerful men down and she was just losing every fight. And no amount of money is going to save you and keep you happy. It just doesn't work that way. Lisa, speaking of all of the people that have committed suicide or died accidentally connected to the Epstein case, I was first referring to Epstein's first. I was first referring to Epstein's French counterpart, Jean-Luc Brunel. Listen. When Epstein was in jail in Florida in 2008, Jean-Luc Brunel visited him 70 times. Virginia Joufrey alleged that she was sexually trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell to several high-profile individuals, including Brunel, while she was underage.

After Epstein's death, Brunel went into hiding. He was arrested December 16, 2020, investigated for rape, sexual assault, and human trafficking, and charged with drugging and raping a 17-year-old girl. Brunel was found dead in his Parisian jail cell, allegedly hanging himself two years after Epstein's death. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. And in addition to Jean-Luc Brunel, there is Carolyn Andreano. When she was just 14, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing Carolyn Andriano and continued to abuse her for the next four years. testifying against Gilane Maxwell in her trial for sex trafficking minors,

Carolyn Andriano found dead in a West Palm Beach Florida hotel room at the age of 36, leaving behind a husband and five children. West Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose. So we've got one suicide of Jean-Luc Brunel. Then we have one accidental overdose of Carolyn Andriano. Listen. Carolyn Andriano is the second Epstein survivor to have died of a fatal drug. overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida. The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose,

Lee Sky Patrick was found dead in a West Palm Beach hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Selby Patrick, says Lee Sky suffered tremendously, and it all started with Epstein. And then, of course, there are questions still swirling about the death of Virginia and Geoffrey. Royal experts say the death of Virginia Jiffrey cements Prince Andrew's place of shame with no hope of ever rehabilitating his image. The fall was fast as Virginia Jiffrey not only accused the prince of sexual abuse, she had a picture taken with the fallen royal on the cover of every news outlet in the world when Epstein was arrested. Royal expert Richard Fitzwilliams tells Fox News Digital, Virginia Jiffrey was ultimately a tragic

victim of a brutal pedophile. Any hope Andrew may have had of casting doubt on her evidence no longer exists. Prince Andrew stripped of his royal and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates more negativity as the allegations jump back into the headlines. According to one royal watcher, Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him, but merely closes the matter. And then, last but not least, Jeffrey Epstein himself commits suicide. There's no way the guy can commit suicide. From the clothing they gave him to the types of sheet that he had to cover himself with while he slapped, it was described as something a little bit thicker than paper, but not strong enough to hold the weight of an individual.

There are no bars in the cell. There's no light fixtures. There's nothing that you can tie on to if you had something to tie up and make a noose. His former cellmate said there was no way this could happen. Now, the guards are supposed to be looking in on every couple of minutes. They were supposed to be viewed physically every 20 minutes. So you've got an impossible situation being sold to the public as a reality. So Lisa, neither you nor I, neither of us are forensic experts.

But I find it hard to believe that between five and 20 people have all died of accidental overdoses and suicides all connected to Epstein. Yeah, I don't know how to explain it. Back to that night when you met Epstein. Okay. You stated that you were told, hey, it's just a massage. You have to do it. Who tells you that? The girl who brought me there.

How did she bring you there? How did that happen? We were both booked for a photo shoot on Tortola Island. It was a British crew. We were both shooting covers of the magazine and a full-on story spread inside. So we were booked for four days on that island. And we had one day that was off. And so that's why she suggested that we go over to, you know, Jeffrey's Island for the day.

How does she know Epstein? She was Eastern European. and a lot of young models that have agencies in Europe probably linked to Jean-Luc Brunel, but I'm not sure if she is, but I know quite a few of them were. They helped them to come over and Jeffrey secures their visa for them. So once they do that, of course, they're very, you know, grateful to Jeffrey for that. But then he can continue to abuse them and traffic those girls out. So they're stuck in this cycle.

So that's why she has this loop going, oh, he's great. He's wonderful because, yeah, part of her probably does believe because he has helped her out immensely with her life. But he's abusing her. And I know for sure she was being trafficked. When you say trafficked, what exactly do you mean? Well, Jeffrey's other powerful friends, she would have to go and spend time with them. He would make her go. Spend time with them.

What did they do? Sit by the fireside and knit? Unfortunately, most of the time it ends in. some type of sexual assault. Lisa, how do you know that? I knew a lot of people in New York back then. I have a very outgoing personality. I love people.

And I just knew a lot of models and ambitious young women during that time. And I know at least 60 that have never come forward because they have good lives and they want to forget about it and they want to suppress it and they're comfortable doing that. And sometimes I think it probably would have been better

if I had done that. Lisa, why do you say that? Well, just because that sometimes you think it would have been better if you just never said anything. Oh, Nancy, you know, it's, you know, I suppressed it for 15 years. And I feel like my life was so much better when you just act like nothing happened. You know, but the shame is always there. You know it's there. And the confusion was always there for me. And so I could have been like a lot of these girls, hundreds of them in New York, hundreds of them, 18 to 24 I would think there was even more in New York than there wasn't Florida because you can get away with a lot more with 18 to 22 year olds. So those women, they went on to do wonderful things with their life. They were beautiful and tall and attractive and they got a lot of

good things from Jeffrey in a way. Their life is good. But I think most of them, when you suppress that pain you have that shame that's still there and many things manifest from that illness disease mental illness things like that so you know it's sometimes i just say that nancy just because maybe i shouldn't have taken this path i mean now that i've gone you know to dc and this is secured for me that i'm on the right path but prior to that sometimes i'm like why am i doing this to myself Why am I in four hours a week of therapy talking about this? You know, it's tough. It's not easy to go through healing and therapy.

Lisa, I've met so many crime victims that say exactly what you're saying. Me, I hate it when someone out of the blue asked me about my fiancé's murder. Because I can be having a perfectly fine day. And then that happens. And more often than not, it's like somebody just thinks. threw a bucket of cold water on me. And then I have to think about him getting shot over and over and over and what did he feel and did he know what happened and how badly did it hurt and what life would have been like

if he hadn't been murdered and just, it's really upsetting. And you go right back to the moment that everything happened. So I hear you. I hear you. And with rape victims especially, They also, in addition to what I just said, feel like it's their fault. Like, I went to the island or I went to his mansion. Of course he thought we were going to have sex.

That's just completely bass outwards. But that is how rape victims feel. They feel like it's their fault. You know, I keep getting you right to the point where you're on the island with another supermodel like yourself. And she says, oh, he's great. Oh, he's wonderful. How in the hay did it get to?

You've got to give him a massage. just like that, it was so quick. It was a wonderful day, just a normal day. And then right when it was time, everything changed. Everything went dark. The whole island looked different. The walk to his bedroom, the anticipation and the anxiousness of like, what the freak is going on here?

And I'm looking at her, and I can see she has a little fear in her eyes. You know, something was wrong with her because she didn't want to do it, you know, but it's just something she took a deep breath and she was like, we have to do it. And so I just went with her because I didn't feel like I had a choice. I was literally trapped on an island at that point. There was nowhere to run. And I was scared of death of saying, no, I'm not going to do it. I didn't have it in me.

He'd be like, no way. You know, I just couldn't do it. I just froze and just went with her. And then what happened? Well, like the genius of Jeffrey Epstein, it was a real massage. It really was. It was playful and he was funny and he was now asking personal, flirty questions and you know he tries to make it seem like it's no big deal you know

that's how he is until then he turns there's a little darkness there's a little there's a lot of darkness in geoffrey epstein so he has this mask of i'm your mentor i'm going to help you out i'm this great caring wonderful person look at all my rich powerful friends and he has this exterior that pulls you know young women in because he makes them feel really safe and he makes you feel seen and heard, that's for sure. But then there's a darkness that switches where he just wants to get what he wants. And so he loves massages.

He does. That is his baseline, his massages. But then it always switches until some type of a little bit of torture. You know, he wants to hurt you a little bit with his hands and with objects and with the fact that he can control

the two young women in the room. So it was scary. It was just, I'm traumatized every time I think about it. I know you have to ask these questions, but it was just the worst night of my life. What do you mean by power and control over the women and hurting them? Well, I think people just think of Jeffrey as like this old rich guy, you just wanted to be around these girls. He was a master manipulator.

And if he could manipulate and basically groom, grown powerful men, which is what he did, because nobody even knows what he did, he's so mysterious, what do you think he can do to young girls? I mean, what do you think he was doing to us? And they try to blame us and victimize us and just say that, oh, you should have so many comments, you should have known better. Oh, you just wanted money. Oh, no, we did not want money. and we did not know better.

It was any situation that could have been normal. It could have been a normal trip, just like every other one I've been on with people, powerful people in the malling and entertainment industry, they don't turn out like this. But Jeffrey has an M.O. He does massages with young girls,

and then he gets them to trust them. He grooms them. He gets them to believe they're powerful, and they can do anything in their lives. I'm speaking for the 18 and over in New York. and a lot of actually a lot of the younger girls said the same thing too but he just masterfully manipulates you and then he takes what he wants from you

which is your innocence and at that age I was still pretty innocent I was also 5 feet 9 and 115 pounds it looked like a little boy so he knew what he was doing Lisa did he molest you yes and then you said

the secretary would then call you nonstop to get you to bring other girls women to the island. Wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm getting ahead of myself. After he molested you. I'm sorry. You know what I'm asking you this, Lisa? Because people don't think it happened. because Pam Bondi has her thumb up her rear end, because no one is doing anything, because Galane Maxwell is on the verge of walking free. I'm not letting it go because there are other clients that statutory raped girls and that forced young women into unwanted sex, that's rape. and nothing is being done

and I don't get it I don't get why we're being lied to and I see you sitting there crying and it's like pouring gas on a fire to me to think nothing has been done nothing

I also don't believe he committed suicide that's total BS yes back to you after he molested you what did he do did he give you money did he act like nothing happened did he act like you're on a first date what did he do it's just masterfully genius the way he is you called it out just acts like there was nothing wrong with this i mean geoffrey would say i mean you're just going to go hang out with the 24 year old guy who's just going to use and abuse you what's the difference you get to hang out with me and get something out of it

He used to say stuff like that. It's like, huh? Hang out with me. It's very different from me raping you. And let me be clear. A digital rape, fingers, a rape with a sex toy, a rape with a penis, be it vaginal, anal. That's all rape. That is all rape.

So I don't care how it's packaged. that is rape. If it is against your desire, it is rape. End a story. So his rationale was, hey, you're just going to get used by a guy younger than me and he won't do anything for you. So you might as well let me rape you and I'll help you get a modeling gig. Seriously?

You know, Nancy, you know, I interviewed many Larry Nassar victims. Yeah. And they were all young girls. and he also digitally raped them, too. He wasn't penetrating them. He was doing everything with his hands. And he was raping all those young girls, too, hundreds of them. So people need to understand that a lot of these serial predators,

they do things with their hands and tools. They don't always penetrate. And it is rape. He is violating your body. I just want to make sure people know that. Do your boys know anything about what you're going through? Do they know? that you're speaking out against a very bad person

and really against the U.S. attorney who is not doing anything. Of course they know. They know everything. I have told my boys everything. I'm very transparent because they can see me suffering through it. They can see the pain.

You know, they love me. So, you know, and I don't have a lot of family that supports me and calls me and checks on me, sees how I'm doing and says I'm proud of you. I've just, I've never had. that, which is why I was an easy target for Jeffrey Epstein, because he could feel by the questions he asked me that night, if I was protected, did I have a father in the picture who was calling me all the time that was supporting me? He went after victims. He knew who to choose the ones who

didn't really have a strong family or especially a father figure in their life. And I had a wonderful father. He actually asked you that, Lisa. Well, yeah, yeah. He asked. He asked me. Oh, yeah, that's why I said he was master manipulator. He literally asked me, what's your family like? Like, what's your family life like? How did you grow up? You know, how often do you talk to your dad? How often does you call you? He asked me all these questions about my father. And I remember thinking, he hit me emotionally because I have a wonderful father who took me all around the world and, you know, it was coached soccer and things like that. It had a great father, but there was no emotional accountability. There was nothing. saying, hey, I'm proud of you. You know, I love you. I didn't get that type of emotional attention that I desperately needed. And when Jeffrey fed that to me that night

within a few hours, it was like I was bonded to him because he gave me everything like a fatherly mentor that I was craving for most of my life. Then he knew what to do. That's how they manipulate you. They know where to get you.

That's why it was confusing later on when he did that to me. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace You know Lisa listening to you I don't know how anyone could disbelieve that Jeffrey Epstein is the devil and that there are other clients

that have not been held accountable It didn't end when Jeffrey Epstein died. There are hundreds of other wealthy or powerful men that have committed rape and probably statutory rape. And nothing is being done. I don't understand how prosecutors, the U.S. attorney, and more can live with that after they hear what you're saying. I mean, to me, that just pour salt in your wound, that no one is doing anything. And that's the reason why survivors are coming forward.

It's not because we want to tell our story. I do not want to tell my story over and over. The reason why I come forward is because I believe the other survivors, because it also happened to me. I came forward, Virginia Jufre, when she spoke out about a few powerful people, but one in particular, I saw him on the island that day. You know I'm talking about Nancy. I want to know, are you talking about Prince Andrew?

He already had a multi-million dollar settlement with Virginia Jafray. And now, just when she's got the money, the house, the peace of mind, suddenly she commits suicide. Yeah, not. But that said, you witnessed Andrew there on the island. Is that true? Jeffrey introduced me to a prince on the island. That's all I can say. when I told him I lived in Oxford, England as a child.

I was like, I lived in Oxford, England as a child, so, and he was on the island, and he said, do you want to meet a prince? And I was like, sure. And that was the man that I met. And then later on. Why can't you say it was Prince Andrew? I just. I don't care.

I mean, I know you're talking about Andrew, but why are you afraid to say it was Andrew? I have a really hard time putting Prince in front of that. survivors, all of us survivors are afraid to say any names for obvious, obvious reasons. Okay, I'll say it for you. Prince Andrew was there that night. Can I get back to Epstein's? I know you don't want to say Andrew. I'll say it for you. And you know what, Andrew, if you don't like it, bring it on. Question with the secretary that barraged you with phone calls. What did she want? You get away, you get away from him. You get back to New York. What happens? them what did the secretary say yeah went back to new york thought everything was going to be fine

wanted to get on with my life i started going out a little bit more and trying to suppress this terrible memory and then they would call i mean they would harass me every single week several times a week and they didn't give up and i i always wondered why i mean i know now why is because of who i saw on the island were very important people, even the underage girls that were there. He wanted me to be quiet. So he was desperate for me to further groom me and make sure I was in his little circle, so to speak. So it was four months. I know it was four months because Jeffrey called me and said, you know, it's been four months. Why haven't you come to see me? You know, we had a great conversation on the island. And he said, you know what?

I'm really good friends with Katie Ford. And you told me on the island that your dream was to become a Ford model. He was like, I can help you out. I'm going to have you go over and meet with Katie Ford this week. And so I was thinking, wow, he listened to me. He can't possibly be a bad guy now. Maybe I was wrong about him. Maybe it was all my fault what happened on the island.

Maybe I was flirting with him. I just started to rationalize in my head because he's so smart. I mean, he's such a genius. He listened to me on that island. He remembered exactly what I said my big dream was. And remember I told you he helps people out because he can, not because he has the kindest heart in the world, just because he can.

And so he made that happen for me. And so hung up the phone. Next thing, the Ford modeling agency was calling me to make an appointment for me to go in and meet with the owner of the agency. And I'm just like, what? This is so awesome. So, I mean, that's how he got me. I went in.

I met with Katie Ford. And the first thing she said was, I love Jeffrey. He's the best. He's such a great guy. And everyone talked so highly of everyone spoke highly of Jeffrey Epstein during that time. So I was just like, oh, maybe something's wrong with me. Like, why was I the only one? And I sort of started thinking I was the only one that he did that too.

Maybe because I wasn't blonde and he just wanted to, I mean, he had a kink, you know, because I'm like this multiracial brown girl here at the island, this vivacious girl. I don't know. I just rationalize it in so many ways that I just thought, wow, he's doing something for me. So I went, met with Katie Ford, and started this relationship with Ford models where I took my career to the next level. So I was always thankful for that introduction from Jeffrey Epstein. I'm just trying to take in what you're saying, Lisa, because a lot of this, I've never heard before. and I have been exhaustively investigating what I can.

It's much bigger than any of us knew. Nancy, but I've been saying this for years and nobody wants to listen because they just focus on the underage girls in Florida. And of course, there were minors. But I would keep telling people 18 to 24 in New York, there were hundreds of them. It's just the majority of them will never come forward

because I told you they have good lives now. and they've moved on, which that's great. But I said in my speech in front of Congress, I said that this goes darker and deeper, and this is about the malling industry as well. I named a name, but nobody wants to focus on that. But if they did some digging, they would find a lot. I do.

That's the whole point of demanding these files be released, is to find out who Epstein's clients were. You know of several women that were trafficked out to wealthy clients to go have sex with them. Yes. And they're in the emails, Nancy. If they look at the emails from Jeffrey Epstein, it would corroborate everything that I'm saying. And Jeffrey videoed everything in his house. I saw cameras everywhere.

So, I mean, the evidence is there. But they don't want us to have the evidence. Two things. How does it make you feel to know the evidence exists and no one's doing anything about it? No, it doesn't feel good, Nancy. It doesn't feel good because we want answers too. There's a lot of confusion for us as well, not just for survivors, but I think the American people have a right to understand what's going on in our country.

Another thing you said, and I've heard it over and over and over, and it has been felt by people, other women, you'd really be surprised at whom I'm talking about, that feel as if it was their fault. Did I lead him on? Did I make this happen? What did I do wrong? and of course I know that you know Lisa up here that that's wrong that's incorrect that's bass backwards but there's something about sex attack victims always believing somehow it's their fault what is your message tonight Lisa it is not your fault it took me a long time to get there and sometimes it's just seeing other survivors sometimes you're

You just need to connect with other survivors, whether it's Epstein or any other serial predator or anyone who can listen to you. You need support and you need to find the community. And you're not alone. You are not alone. To all the survivors out there right now, we are speaking with Lisa Phillips, who survived Epstein. I beg you, even now, even in face of our government, not pursuing this, please stay strong and keep the faith. I believe that somehow, some way, this case will be investigated with or without Bondi.

Lisa, thank you for being with us. And thank you for being brave for other crimes. victims to see you and hear you and understand what you've been through, what you will always be going through because of Jeffrey Epstein and Galane Maxwell. But yet you are still fighting the fight. Thank you. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast.