Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Everyone was suspect. And I suspected everyone': Karina Vetrano's dad reveals heartbreak, Part 1

Episode Date: April 8, 2019

Karina Vetrano was sexually assaulted and murdered while out for a jog in Queens, New York. Her killer, Chanel Lewis, finally convicted less than four months after the jury deadlocked at his first trial.Hear Nancy's emotional interview with Karina's father, Phil.Our panel of experts are also on the case:Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert and author of "Blood Beneath My Feet"Kenya Johnson, Atlanta prosecutorDr. Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer and host of Investigation Discovery's "Fatal Vows"David Mack, Syndicated Radio Host  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Surveillance video taken just moments before the 30-year-old New York City woman was beaten and strangled to death while on a late afternoon run. We need to find this predator. Now, more than six months after the grisly murder. Chanel, why'd you do it? Why'd you kill her? Police say they found the needle in the haystack, tracking down the man they believe is responsible.

20-year-old Chanel Lewis lived three and a half miles away from the crime scene with his mother. Follow-up investigation developed forensic evidence linking him to the crime. Lewis was interviewed by detectives and made detailed, incriminating statements and admissions. You are hearing our friend at ABC Rural News tonight. That's Maria Chiavicampo. Is that how it all started? The murder of a beautiful, brilliant girl, Karina Vetrano. Is this where it started? And today, has it ended in a court of law?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me right now is who I consider to be a friend. And Phil Vetrano, I don't know whether I should be happy for you and your beautiful wife. I don't know. Let me just say that your daughter, Karina Vetrano, killer, has been convicted. And I started to say that's the headline, but that's not the headline.

The headline is Karina. I just want to start with right now, and then we'll explain to the listeners what happened. But tell me what went through your body, what went through your mind when you hear guilty? That, you know, we've been hoping and praying for that moment ever since, you know, my daughter was murdered. And it's been a long road. We've never been through anything like this, so we didn't know what to expect and it was total jubilation when that when that happened when we heard that jury foreman bellow the words

guilty uh the whole audience erupted spontaneously you you know, naturally. And I felt a weight that was lifted off of me at that moment. At that moment, all the anger that was in me, all the hate that was in me, it disappeared. It dissipated. It was just taken away. relief and gratitude to the jury and gratitude to the prosecution. And it doesn't change anything, but it put the murderer away. It's going to put the murderer away for a very long time. Take a listen to our friend at WNBC News 4. This is Cheki Beckford. It was definitely a different atmosphere tonight at the end of this trial versus the one

back in November when a jury then failed to reach a unanimous verdict in the case. But tonight, Karina Vetrano's family erupted in cheers and applause inside that courtroom as a jury foreman read that Chanel Lewis was in fact guilty on all counts. We the jury find the defendant guilty. The Petrano family's emotional reaction after waiting for justice for three years for their daughter. No visible reaction, though, from Chanel Lewis himself. The jury today confirming he was, in fact, the man who beat and sexually abused 30-year-old jogger Karina Vitrano in 2016, leaving her battered body in a Howard Beach park.

The verdict coming just five hours after the jury got the case at the end of the three-week trial. At one point this evening, they asked for readbacks of the charges and testimony from two detectives in the case. Earlier, the defense tried to get the case dismissed after receiving an anonymous unsubstantiated letter about racial bias involved in Lewis's arrest, but the judge denied the motion and the prosecution delivered a blistering two-hour summation pointing out DNA evidence and two taped confessions tying Lewis to the murders. This is the trial. Thank you. You know, I'm just thinking back with me is Karina Vetrano's father, Phil, And you and Karina had this incredible relationship as she did with her mom.

But when I first learned about Karina's disappearance and death, so many things struck a chord in me. As I've told you in person, my dad and I would always exercise together. We were soulmates. He and my mom would go on trips with us. I mean, that was, were the happiest times of my life. And we were all around the dinner table together with my mom and my dad. Both of us laughed at the same things. We hated the same things. We loved the same things. And of all the days, the one day you don't go jog with her. Little did anybody know there was a predator waiting. And that's where it all starts. I know you remember that day, and you've told me about it before. But that day, when she went jogging, did you have any feeling, any inkling that anything was amiss when you stayed behind? I don't know.

Maybe subconsciously at that moment, because I did tell her, I said, are you going to be running in there, meaning the weeds where we used to run together? And she said, yeah. And I said, I don't think it's a good idea, Range, you know, because I called her Range. And she said, don't worry, Daddy, I'll be okay. So maybe subconsciously, I felt something right then and there. But moments later, moments later, I started to really get a bad feeling. And I told you about that. And everybody knows about that. And then I went out looking for her. That is amazing to me. And what he's talking about, guys, is within 15 minutes after, I guess it was about 15 minutes after Karina went jogging and he didn't go, I believe you were down in the back. I think that's what it was. Right then you had this, this feeling and you started watching the clock when she was going to get back,

and then ultimately started calling her, as I recall it, Phil. Yes, that is correct. I called her. I started getting the feeling probably around 610, 612. I called her at 627, 628, 630. At that point, I just screamed, and I just went out looking for her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You have been in, I wouldn't say law enforcement, but you were with the fire department.

And how did that play into your thoughts? Because sometimes I think when we've been on this side of the law and seen so much, we look at the world a different way, Phil. Well, I no longer look at the world in the way that I once did. You know, I always trusted everybody and gave everybody the benefit of the doubt. And now I am more suspicious. I am less, I am more cautious of what can happen for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, it has changed my outlook on life and outlook on people. Of course it has. It just was like a bad taste in my mouth. What was going through your mind when you would look in the courtroom at Chanel Lewis? Disgust. Disgust because I knew what he had done to my baby. I know the viciousness of the attack, what he did to her. And I could feel nothing but hatred and disgust towards him. Would he look at you in the courtroom? He had to know who you are.

He would constantly turn, constantly turn and look at my wife and myself, mostly my wife. He would turn and stare at her. And it got to the point where we had to ask a court officer to please right in front of him, right on his side of him, so we wouldn't be able to see his face as he turned towards us continually during both trials. See, I didn't know that. I didn't know that he would turn around and look at your wife throughout the trial. What do you think that was about? We have no idea. We have no idea what he could have possibly been thinking. It wasn't a malicious look. It wasn't a sadistic look. But he just kept looking at us. He wouldn't turn towards his family. He would look at Kathy. Now, I can't explain what was going through his mind. I don't know, but that's what he would do.

Another heartbreak, and I'm going to circle back to you searching for Karina is when this goes to trial and there's a mistrial even with a confession and a DNA match. You don't believe me? Listen to Chanel Lewis in his own words. Now, while you're in the park,

did something happen? Yes. What happened while you were in the park, did something happen? Yes. What happened while you were in the park? While I was in the park, there was this girl jogging, and then, you know, one thing led to another because of some other situation.

All right. Well, the girl that was jogging, was she by herself or with anybody else? By herself. What did she look jogging, was she by herself or with anybody else? By herself. What did she look like? What was she wearing? Well, I was going to say she looked like she was wearing a yellow tank top, maybe. Okay. What kind of pants? I wouldn't really know.

Were they long or short? Do you remember? No. Do you remember if they were long pants or short pants? No. Okay. No. You remember if they were long pants or short pants? Um-hmm. Okay. Um, and was she, was she jogging? Was she coming from the same direction that you came from when you entered the park?

No, we went off in the directions. Okay. And when you first saw her, where were you? Were you in the grass or were you on the trail? On the trail. All right. And were you moving or were you standing still? I was moving, listening to music.

You were walking or jogging? Walking. Walking? And you were walking towards her? I was walking towards her and then side to side and then one thing led to another. When she got next to you as she was running and you were walking, what happened then? And then, no, it was a past situation. I got angry and then I hit her and stuff like that. Okay. Before you did, where did you hit her?

Like in the face and like in the mouth. In the face and the mouth. Before you hit her, did you grab her or did you just hit her right away? I kinda grabbed her first did you grab her or did you just hit her right away? I kind of grabbed her first. Grabbed her? Then, like, how did you grab her? What part of her body did you grab?

I started hitting her because of the incident that was going on earlier. Right. But did you grab her before you started hitting her or was the first thing you did was to hit her? What was the first thing you did? I grabbed her. Okay. And how did you grab her? Like this.

Okay. With both hands? Mm-hmm. Okay. And what part of her body did you grab? Do you remember her shoulders, her waist, her neck? Do you remember? Probably around here.

Okay, around the shoulders. Mm-hmm. And when you grabbed her, what happened then? I started hitting her and stuff like that. All right. Now, did you hit her with both hands? Probably, yeah. All right.

And what part of her body did you hit with your hands? I didn't hit any part of her body. Her face? Just the face. Just the face? All right. About how many times did you hit her in the face? About five.

All right. Was she standing when you started to hit her or was she on the ground? She was on the ground. Okay. So did she, when did she fall to the ground after you grabbed her? All right. Now when she fell to the ground was he lying in the path or was he off the path? The pathway. When she fell to the ground and you were hitting her was she on the pathway or was he off the pathway? She was kind of on the pathway. All right.

Did she say anything at all? No. No? Did she scream? No, because her tooth broke. I'm sorry? Her tooth broke? Right.

Were you covering her mouth at all? No. No? Okay. The tooth that broke, was it like in the front, the top or the bottom, do you remember? No. Okay. How long would you say you were hitting her for?

About how long in time? The whole thing was about five minutes. Five minutes? All right. And did you do anything else to her besides hit her? Did you put her hands on any other part of her body? No. Around her neck or anything?

Yeah, it was. I'm sorry? Yeah. You put her hands around her neck? Okay. Do you remember, was it one hand or both hands? Both. Both?

All right. And how long did you have your hands around her neck? I don't know. Okay. Did you squeeze her neck when you had your hands around her neck? Yeah. Yeah? Okay. You don't remember for how long though?

Mm-mm. Okay. It was a matter of accident. You were mad about an accident. At some point before she went into the water, she had stopped moving. Is that right? She stopped moving before her face went into the water, correct? Right.

Did, um... I'm sorry, kind of did. Kind of did? All right. Could you tell if she was breathing or not? What did you say? Be the last question. Could you tell if she was breathing?

No, the other one. Oh, before that? I said, no, at some point before she went out, she stopped moving and you said kind of, right? This is after the water? Well, when you put her in the water, was she still moving then? In the water, she fell in the water.

She fell, was she moving then? After that, she wasn't moving. Okay. Did she fall in the water when you first threw her to the ground or when you're on the ground with her head in her? Did she like kind of move towards the water? It was more like a strangulation

and then she went into the water. So it was after you had your hands on her neck that she went in the water? Right. And what did you do then, after that? After that, she was just lying there, and then I got her by her ankles, and I picked her up from her back and put her in the bushes. Okay.

Can you just describe to me, like, how you moved her? What part of the body were you holding when you moved her? Like, on the hands. Following that verdict... I feel like a weight has been lifted. THE BODY YOU WERE HOLDING WHEN YOU MOVED HER? LIKE THAT, ON THE HANDS. FOLLOWING THAT VERDICT... I FEEL LIKE A WEIGHT HAS BEEN LIFTED. YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST, YOU WALK UP WITH A DIFFERENT FEELING.

IF SHE COULD BE HERE TODAY, OR YOU COULD SPEAK TO HER TODAY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO HER? I SPEAK TO HER EVERY DAY. EVERY SINGLE DAY I SPEAK TO HER. AND SHE SPEAKS TO US IN VOLUMES.

KARINA'S FATHER SAYS HER VOICE WILL ALWAYS BE HEARD. FROM THE SOUND OF THE BIRDS HERE TO THE WRITINGS ON HER BLOG. AND THEY PLAN TO FIND A WAY TO GET HER WORK TO THE LEGAL. SHE'S A VERY GOOD GIRL. SHE'S A VERY GOOD GIRL. SHE'S A VERY GOOD GIRL. SHE'S A VERYAT GIRL. SHE'S A GREAT GIRL. SHE SPEAKS TO US IN VOLUMES.

KARINA'S FATHER SAYS HER VOICE WILL ALWAYS BE HEARD FROM THE SOUND OF THE BIRDS HERE TO THE WRITINGS ON HER BLOG AND THEY PLAN TO FIND A WAY TO GET HER WORK PUT INTO A BOOK. HOW DO YOU THINK KARINA

WOULD WANT TO BE REMEMBERED? JUST AS SHE IS. JUST AS EVERYBODY SEES HER. SHE'S SPECIAL. SHE'S SMART. SHE'S BEAUTIFUL. AND SHE WAS DESTINED FOR GREATER THINGS. Beautiful. And she was destined for greater things. And she has achieved that. We don't know what the rest of our life is going to be like.

But it's a good feeling to know that now we can move forward. To a place of peace. Always remembering their beloved daughter. With me right now, Phil Vetrano, who I consider to be a colleague and a friend, Karina's father. Phil, sensing dread, foreboding, goes out and starts looking for Karina. And it is Phil that finds his daughter. And you know what? I don't know how you ever get that image out of your mind, or if you want to get that image out of your mind. You know, Phil, I just buried my dad. And the last image I have of him is when I leaned over into his casket, and I hugged him and I kissed him. That's my last memory of seeing his face.

And sometimes I wish I hadn't seen that, but I did. And then sometimes, I thank God, I got to kiss him. I don't know how you feel about finding Karina. It was of the utmost importance to her that I found her. It was because of her that I found her. She needed her father. She needed her daddy to find her. And that was the last thing that I could have done for her,

the last thing that I did do for her, because we were so close, and she led me to her. I needed to find her, and yes, it was horrible, but I needed to do that for her. You know what, Phil, that's not the last thing that you and your wife did for her. The last thing you did for her was you were in that courtroom every single day. And that jury saw you and they were held accountable. And he, Lewis was held accountable. You were there every single day. And I remember seeing an image of your wife coming out of court. And she was in one of the trials holding a crucifix in her hand. And I thought she was going to just pass out.

I thought she was just going to fall over. And her beautiful face was like a ghost. What she was living through, what you were living through, having to go through the whole thing again, and then get a mistrial. A mistrial. How could the first jury get it wrong with a confession and DNA? How, Phil? Simple answer to that is that we had a bad

jury. You know that. You're a lawyer. You're a prosecutor. You know that it all stems down to the jury. To get 12 people to agree on something and people have different views of things and people have different agendas. And we got a bad jury the first time. You know, people on the outside don't get when you get a bad jury. It happens. I remember, Phil, I don't know if I told you this, but in my first bank robbery prosecution, I got a guy that was convicted of a bank robber on my jury.

How much do you think persuading I had to do to get that guilty verdict? I mean, you can get a bad jury and not know it. Like, you know, in the Scott Peterson case, they had one juror after the next. It turned out to be not a bad juror. And you don't know. You don't know when you put them in the box. What about this? And I've been dying to ask you about this Chanel Lewis who gives a full

confession oh I'm going to circle back to you Phil on the fact that in addition to being a friend you have turned into a colleague fighting for the use the admittance to court of familial DNA, okay? You're the one that brought that to the forefront. And then everybody else followed you. I need to tell you something. I mean, you were one of the people that have been there from the very beginning. We met on Dr. Oz on December 6, 2016. And you were very beginning. We met on Dr. Oz on December 6th, 2016. And you were very instrumental

in getting that Familiar DNA campaign launched. And we got it done in the state of New York. Now, it's ironic that you bring this up now, but right before I started to speak to you, I read an email from Harley Feldman. His daughter, Allison, was murdered in 2015. And through the use of familiar DNA in Arizona, they got her killer. And that's going to trial in 2020. And I would like to think that both you and I

were instrumental in getting that familiar DNA passed in Arizona. And I'd like to continue doing that in all the states. But you were very instrumental in that happening. Well, you know what? I'm standing in your shadow, okay? With me, in addition to Phil Vetrano, the father of Karina Vetrano, forensics expert Joe Scott Morgan, prosecutor Kenya Johnson, host of the hit series on investigation discovery fatal vows, Dr. Brian Russell, and Dave Mack. Joe Scott, I know you'll understand that I'm speaking almost exclusively with Phil, but if you could quickly, in regular people talk. Okay, Joe Scott, explain what is familial DNA. Familial DNA, Nancy, are those connections that we have with the strand that runs through our life. Those connections that we have with family members, peripheral

family members, maybe aunts, uncles, and of course our immediate family. And these can be tracked down through DNA, partial DNA fragments that are found at scenes, maybe plugged into databases that have come up as a result of things like 23andMe, Ancestry.com. And we can at least get an idea as to what family groupings individuals come from. Yeah, there's huge data banks like you're talking about. There's APHIS, there's CODIS, there's a fingerprint, there's DNA, now there's a gun data bank, and then you've got all the, as you said, genealogy data bank, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So what Phil did was lead the charge. There was DNA on the scene where Karina was assaulted and beaten horribly. But Phil, we couldn't get a match. It didn't match anybody in the system. But then, bam, you tell the rest, Phil. Well, through hard, you know, detective work, relentless police work, you know, they came up with a lead, a lead that was merited and justified from previous summonses, from 911 calls, from suspicious, you know, burglar type behavior. A lieutenant, you know, remembered something that happened back in May 2016. And then it was vetted and investigated through hard core basic police work. And we came up with the name of Chanel Lewis. They came up with the name of Chanel Lewis. I had no idea what was going on. I wasn't kept abreast of that, of the investigation.

And he was swabbed. He was given the opportunity to not give a swab. He signed a consent form. He was swabbed. And a few days later, that came back as a positive match, a one in seven trillion to one probability that it was him, meaning one in 132 Earth planets, that it couldn't be anybody else but him. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With me right now is who I consider to be a friend. Phil Vetrano, your daughter, Karina Vetrano, killer, has been convicted. It's amazing that with the DNA, with a full confession, he was not convicted at the first trial, but the reality is he is

convicted now. And may he rot in jail as a brief pit stop on his way to hell. That is exactly right. And there, I can only hope that he, yeah, that he burns day in, day out with the devil. There is much more for him. That's my hope. Much more for him. And I know, I know we're supposed to forgive. I get it. And maybe one day I'll reach that zen moment

when I can do that. But for right now, and he's not helping me any, because what about this, Phil? Turns out, I know you already know this. I'm not breaking anything, too. You know more about it than me. Here he is bragging behind bars. Karina's killer is bragging behind bars, quote, I'm on front page of both the papers, one of those papers being my favorite paper, the New York Post. He's bragging.

He thinks that's a good thing that his picture is on the front of the paper. Phil, I think that says it all. Yes, it does. And I'm very aware of that article. It came out yesterday. And, yeah, that says volumes about the character of the person that was convicted, has been convicted in a court of law without any doubt on all counts. Yes, that's his character.

And this guy has actually been calling the media during the trial, whining about his conditions behind bars. Yes, ma'am. It's more than I can take, Phil. It's always been about him, me, me, me. They're mistreating me. I mean, he's in jail for, you know, sexual assault, murder, and he's complaining that he's being mistreated in a holding facility,

which is a camp compared to where he's going to go. Well, let me just report one of his mistreatments. And he once pleaded to the Daily News after giving them a story about another inmate ejaculating into a communal hot pot. Now, I can't say that I'm sad about it, but the reality is I need a shrink. Dr. Brian Russell, the host of I.D.'s hit Fatal Vows. Why is it all about him? Why is he happy he's on the front page of a newspaper? I just wish Karina's picture hadn't been on the newspaper and a split photo with him. Why is he bragging? Well, I think that's totally consistent with everything that we know about this guy

and what's now been proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law about this guy would i mean it's the same core personality trait that resulted in this horrific crime happening in the first place and i think that you raised a very important point a minute ago when you talked about forgiveness because i like you, I understand what you're talking about, but I think there's an element of remorse that has to be there in order for the person to be ready and worthy of forgiveness. And I want to give people a little bit different way to think about forgiveness other than the idea that it is letting somebody off the hook for a wrong they've done. Because I'm with you. I haven't developed spiritually to the point where I can do that with a guy like this either. But a different way to think about it, I think, that might be helpful

for some people is you get to a point where you say I don't expect any more from you I don't expect any more from this person and it's not really because you're letting that person off the hook it's not really for their benefit it's for your benefit that you know you're never going to get anything else from this person and you don't expect it. To Phil Vetrano, do you remember that moment? Of course you do. When you were approaching Karina's body in the crime scene, what made you go there? What instinct made you go there? I was drawn. I was drawn there.

You know, there was a police officer on the trail. We found out they found her phone. I walked up to him, and I asked him, where's the phone? And he told me it's in there, pointing into the weeds. He said, it's about 50 feet, but you can't go anywhere near it. You can't touch it. You can't even look at it. You have to stay here. And I said, okay. So I started to walk the trail and I started to walk further into the trail towards Brooklyn, to West. And then something in my, in my, my mind, something told me no. And I stopped and I turned around and I started to walk back east towards where my house would be

and I went about 20 feet and I'm looking to my left and I'm looking to my right and I look down to my right and I see one weed that was bent and I I kind of crouched down, and I look, and I see what appears to be a trail that somebody could have went through hours before, and I followed it in. But it was basically my daughter, Karina, telling me, do this. Follow this. I'm here. I need for you to find me. And that's how it occurred. I can't think of anyone that I would want with me at that moment

other than my husband or my dad or my mom, you know, the people that are the very closest to me. And I think you're right. I am right. I think somehow she was asking you to come and find her. I knew when she was being accosted. I knew when she was being beaten. I felt something was wrong and at first i ignored those primal feelings those instincts but that only lasted for moments and then it just overcame me and i said no something

is wrong i knew something was wrong she was calling for she was calling for, she was calling for daddy. And I went out looking for her. That is a fact. Phil, how many suspects did they pursue before they got the DNA match? Hundreds, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. You know, this was a tremendously large investigation and everyone was suspect. Every family member was suspect. Every friend, every acquaintance, every co-worker, everyone was suspect. I was suspect. My son was suspect. Every male was suspect. And I suspected everyone. So this was a tremendous investigation. They were not focused on a particular person, a particular race, a particular location. It was a citywide investigation. Phil Vetrano, you really personify one of my favorite verses out of Timothy, and it is, fight the good fight, strong to the end.

Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.