Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Evil Stepmom Claims Boy, 5, Never Got Off School Bus

Episode Date: March 14, 2024

Friday, March 3rd: Pamela Turner waits for her stepson to get off the school bus. When Justin Turner doesn't, the stepmom calls the school.  The staff tells her that Justin was marked absent that day. The sheriff's office is called and deputies come to the Turner home. Justin Turner, 5, has been missing for hours. The search for Justin Turner includes multiple agencies and volunteers from the area. For two days, WCBD News video cameras follow the searches. Video shows volunteers side-by-side with police and sheriff's deputies, walking nearly shoulder to shoulder through fields, checking under back decks and sheds. The Channel 2 cameraman is filming as Victor Turner goes into a camper on their property, and quickly comes back out saying, "My son's in there." The body of Justin Turner is found hidden inside a cabinet in the pickup truck camper, parked close to the family home. An autopsy and forensic analysis are done on the 5-year-old, and investigators determine that the boy had been placed inside the camper shortly after his strangulation death. A forensic pathologist report indicates the boy died a short time after eating his last meal.  The Berkeley County Sheriff at the time, M.C. Cannon says accidental death is ruled out. The coroner's autopsy report reveals the boy was sexually assaulted with some kind of cylindrical object, and strangled to death. The case is officially ruled a homicide. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Amy Parsons - Cousin of Justin Turner; FB: Justice for Justin Lee Turner  James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; X: @ShelnuttLawFirm Dr. John Delatorre –  Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; X, IG, and TikTok – @drjohndelatorre Dr. Kenny Kinsey- Kenny Kinsey & Associates LLC, Forensic Expert in Murdaugh murder trial; Orangeburg County Chief Deputy, Crime Scene Reconstruction Expert, and Former SLED Special Agent; X: @DrKennethKinsey Dr. Michelle Dupre– Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide”, Ret. Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff’s Department Nick Reagan -  WCSC Journalist and Morning Breaking News Anchor; X Twitter: @NickReagan  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A dad literally bent over in half, sobbing, wailing in grief at the discovery of his five-year-old son dead. Just crying out loud, tears running down his face, wailing in grief. Or was he?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories and on Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to this. A local TV crew is on hand on Sunday, March 5th, as law enforcement and volunteers gather to search for 5-year-old Justin Turner. A cameraman from WCBD films as Justin Turner's father, Victor, looks into a pickup truck camper on the property. The camper has been searched before to no avail,

but this time, Victor Turner leans into the camper on one knee, looks into one specific place, and the search is over. Something's in there. No camera, no camera. Where is he at? Where is he at? Where is he at? According to Sheriff Dwayne Lewis, Victor Turner doesn't check for a pulse or signs of life. He doesn't touch his son at all.

The horrible moment. A five-year-old little boy is found dead. He's found dead in a camper. And the first search of the camper reveals nothing, but we're learning more. Take a listen to Sheriff Dwayne Lewis with the Berkeley County Sheriff's Department. Justin Turner was reported missing on March 3rd at 312 p.m. from his home here in Berkeley County. Deputies arrived. James Gethers, first deputy on the scene, requested assistance and got help from other

deputies and members of the rescue squad, DNR, SLED, fire departments converged on the area searching for Justin. He's five years old. This case spans so many law enforcement departments. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, but first straight out to Nick Reagan, WCSC journalist and morning breaking news anchor, Nick, thank you for being with us. Tell me about the discovery of the little boy and how does he go missing? The situation was such that the law enforcement was called out by Justin Turner's parents. They told him they told law enforcement that he had gotten on a school bus, went to school, and never returned.

And the sheriff's office came out and took statements, and then they began this search, this two-day-long search. The first day revealed nothing. The second day, as you heard, within honestly a few minutes of that search happening, his father, Justin Turner's father, Victor, goes into this camper shell and within seconds notices, sees his little boy in that camper shell dead. So that is the scene. That is the premise for how all of this started. Of course, cracks in the case begin from there. So the little boy goes to school on the bus and he's never seen again. That is eerily reminiscent of another little boy. All of you legal eagles know very well the name Kyron Horman. Take a listen in our cut 104 to Kyron's bio mom.

To the person or persons that have Kyron, I miss my son so much that I can't breathe at times. My heart aches every second of every day and I am afraid that I can't live without him. I know that this situation has turned out much bigger than anyone could have ever imagined. Please do the right thing here and help us find him. Think about Kyron. He needs me as well. There are so many things he hasn't gotten to do yet. Please let him go.

Just take him to a remote pay phone and tell him to call 911 and then we can come and get him. You are hearing Desiree Young, Kyron Horman's biological mother, after the stepmom reportedly takes him to school for a science fair that morning. He wanders off and he's never seen alive again. But in this case, we know that this little boy, Justin Lee Turner, was supposed to go get the school bus the way he did every single morning. You know what's extremely interesting to me? And let me throw this straight out to James Shelnut, high profile lawyer joining us out of Alabama, 27 years on Metro Major Case. James, did you know, oh gosh, it's a staggering number. Well over 30% of missing children disappear related to the bus stop, catching the bus, trying to get to school.

That's a huge number. It is. And, you know, that's that's the point in time. A lot of people don't think about this. You know, you think about your kid being safe, getting on a school bus, being around schools. But, you know, when they're at that bus stop and on the way to and from that bus stop, they are vulnerable kids in a vulnerable situation, often without supervision. It's a huge number of missing children that go missing related to getting to or home from school. Now, in this case, this is what we know. Take a listen to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Nicole Parton

in our cut three. Friday, March 3rd, Pamela Turner waits for her stepson to get off the school bus. When Justin Turner doesn't, the stepmom calls the school. Staff there tells her that Justin wasn't at school at all that day. He was marked absent that day. The sheriff's office is called and deputies come to the Turner's home. Five-year-old Justin Turner has been missing for hours. But there's a little twist to that story. Listen to Sidney Sumner, Crime Online. Pamela Turner tells deputies she wasn't feeling well that morning and didn't walk Justin to his bus stop as she normally did. Instead, she got in the shower as Justin left the house. Justin was supposed to go next door to catch the bus with

the neighbor's grandson. The neighbor tells investigators she waited outside with her grandson to catch the bus, but she didn't see Justin. So the stepmom does something different that one day she doesn't walk him to the bus stop the way she always does. So somewhere between home and the bus stop is allegedly where he goes missing because the grandma of a little friend says he was never at the bus stop first thing in the morning. Okay, to Nick Reagan joining us, WCSE journalist, breaking news anchor. Nick, how far would their home be from the bus stop? Well, not too far. But, you know, what we know specifically is that Pamela Turner at the time is what she was going by. She said that day was unusual. She said that she was feeling sick and that she was in the shower at the time and didn't actually see her her stepson headed out to that bus stop as she normally would.

So all of those things sort of painted a different picture than maybe what would happen on the daily where she would possibly or potentially or usually she would say she would go out to the bus stop with her son on a normal day. So things were unusual. Isn't it odd how just one tiny change in a morning routine can have such devastating consequences? The one day she doesn't walk the little boy, Justin Lee Turner, age five, to the bus stop is the day that he is kidnapped. Take a listen now to the sheriff, Sheriff Dwayne Lewis in Berkeley County. Justin never made it to school that morning. He never got on the bus.

He never arrived at school. That's because he had been murdered and left in a camper. I can't think of a more tragic, horrendous murder. Five-year-old boy. So the sheriff's agreeing with the grandma who says he was never at the bus stop. Unlike Kyron Horman's case where the stepmom says she got him to school, she knows he was at school and she sees him go into the school. This little boy never even made it to the bus stop. And according to Nick Reagan joining us, WCSC, it's not far at all from the

home where Justin was living with his dad and the bus stop. So what happened in that short, short distance? Okay, the search begins. Listen to Dave Mack. The search for Justin Turner includes multiple agencies and volunteers from the area. For two days, WCBD news video cameras followed the searches. Videos show volunteers side-by-side with police and sheriff's deputies walking nearly shoulder-to-shoulder through fields, checking under back decks and sheds.

The Channel 2 cameraman is filming as Victor Turner goes into a camper on their property and quickly comes back out saying, My son's in there. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now, let me understand, Nick Raga and WCSC, hadn't that camper been searched before? Yes, it had at one point, but it was again just on that second day where in the father, Victor Turner went in there, it was only in there for a very limited amount of time. Some people say it was a couple of minutes, a couple of seconds, but the implication is that when he went in there, he immediately was able to tell that his son's body was in there. And then you heard from that report earlier, he kind of

broke down, backed out of the camper, refused to, I'm not going to touch the body, I'm not going to touch the body, and really broke down at that scene. And so the camper here is crucial to all of this. Police have said that there is limited access to this camper. I want you to take a listen very quickly to Nicole Parton, because it's my understanding the little boy wasn't just lying there on the floor or on one of the pull-out sofas in the camper. He actually had to be folded up and stuffed inside of one of the cabinets. Cabinets in campers and RVs are very, very small. So how did the boy get into a cabinet?

And how did police miss that the first time they looked in the camper? Listen. Victor Turner discovers his own son in a camper on their property. He goes in, but comes back out of the camper without touching the five-year-old. The body of Justin Turner is found hidden inside a cabinet in the pickup truck camper parked close to the family home. Investigators said Victor Turner found the boy's body, quote, within seconds of entering the camper and, quote, moments after the search party began its search that day. I've got so many questions based on what I'm just hearing, but joining me right now is a special guest, Amy Parsons. This is five, then five-year-old Justin Lee Turner's

cousin. And you can find her on Facebook at Justice for Justin Lee Turner. Amy, thank you for being with us. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Amy, do you remember when your cousin, Justin Lee Turner, went missing? I vaguely remember bits and pieces. I don't remember that day or the search or any of that stuff. My family were from more of the upstate of South Carolina. My mom was involved that first day when he went missing. In what way? Actually, Justin's grandfather was up here visiting with my grandmother, and he got the phone call that Justin was missing. So my mom got in the vehicle with him and went down to the Lowcountry.

Our side of the family, Justin's mom's side of the family, was not allowed in the actual search of Justin. Why? I really couldn't give you that. I really couldn't answer that. That's very, very odd. Dr. John Delatore is joining us. We're now a psychologist, mediator, specializing in forensic psychology. You can find Dr. Delatore at resolutionfcs.com. Dr. Delatore, thank you for being with us. Man, I would take all the help I could get to try to find one of the twins if they went missing. I don't care who you are. Yeah, try to find one of the twins if they went missing. I don't care who you are.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the only reason why you wouldn't is because you already knew where the person had gone. I don't know if I agree with that. Sometimes when there's a family feud, people are so angry, they won't let the other side of the family have anything to do with anything. And here you see Amy's mom and the grandfather drive all the way down to the low country to try to help search. And then they're essentially banned from helping by the other side of the family. It's amazing how feuds can run so deeply that they interfere with finding a child.

It's amazing. Well, again, the feud might be present, but at that point when you are in desperate, when you are legitimately desperate, you will take any help that you can get, feud or not. And so it's important to understand that if they are still holding onto the feud, it's because they know that that other person

has something and can recognize something that they don't want to be recognized. Guys, the search goes on. And then day two, and correct me if I'm wrong, Nick Reagan, the dad researches the camper and finds the little boy stuffed in a cabinet. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. One of the things that our reporter at the time noted, I went back and I watched all of our archived video, is that this was not a cabinet that was easy necessarily, one that you could just open the camper and see this was

something that is a small cabinet underneath a bed or or a couch like a surface it's uh something that you would have to you know you would have to sort of know what you're you're looking for it's not something you scan the camper and you just see you have to open things up and know how to get into these these cabinets specifically. Joining me right now, along with Dr. Michelle Dupree, is an expert who shot to fame nationwide, along with Dr. Dupree during the Alex Murdoch double murder trial, Dr. Kenneth Kinsey. And I sat in the courtroom and watched his testimony. And for the first time in the state's case, since the opening statements, which were awesome, were given, the case finally all fit together when Kinsey was explaining things on the stand. Forensic expert, former Orangeburg County Chief Deputy, owner-operator, Kenny Kinsey & Associates, LLC,

former South Carolina Law Enforcement Division Special Agent. Dr. Kinsey thank you for being with us. Now correct me if I'm wrong but on every search I ever attended and or supervised or executed myself you do not leave any drawer, any cabinet, any surface unturned. You look in everything. Now, you might look in a little bitty drawer and think, well, I'm not going to find anything in there. But if you don't look in there and then later something is found in there, of course, not a dead body, but it could be anything. It could be a gun. It could be a bullet. It could be a knife. It could be anything, a pair of gloves. If you don't search exhaustively, then you will be attacked on cross examination. And it may be a nook or cranny. You know, you're not going to find anything, but you have to do it. So I find it very, very odd that law enforcement,

Ellie goes in day one, searches the camper because it's on the curtilage, the premises. They find nothing. Day two, dad goes in, opens one cabinet. He comes out in less than five minutes. He goes, my son's in there. Wow. It's a miracle, isn't it? Kenzie, it's just a miracle. Great, great point, Nancy. You know, you check, you double check, you triple check, you change groups, you change teams and get another perspective just in case you miss something that is very, very important. But you don't give up on it until that search is exhausted. I mean, you're up S Creek without a paddle. If you do not do an exhaustive search, Dr. Kenzie, I mean, you were in L.A. law enforcement for years as a special agent. Would you go and search a scene and not look in the drawers or the cabinets?

Absolutely not. You can't explain it away later. And like you said, your efforts may not be, you may not find what you're looking for there, but you can explain it away later. Yes, you can explain what happened because I find it very, very disturbing on multiple levels. Then on day one, Ellie searches that camper and it's not big at all. Day two, the dad goes in and bam, there, there's the baby right there. Why didn't you guys see it? Why didn't you look in the cabinet? I mean, somebody's going to get, oh gosh, how can I say this without cursing? A real dressing down, a real dressing down for not searching that cabinet. Okay. But that said, let's move forward.

Obviously you find a dead body. What's the COD cause of death? Why is a five-year-old dead in a cabinet? Did he wander in there? Did he hide in there and maybe have positional asphyxiation where, well, how do I explain this? You know, like a baby, if you go put it to sleep in a car seat, it can tilt its head down and then cut off its own airway because of the position it's in. It asphyxiates and dies from lack of oxygen. Could that have happened? What does the autopsy show? Take a listen to Sydney Sumner, Crime Online.

An autopsy and forensic analysis is done on the five-year-old and investigators determine that the boy had been placed inside the camper shortly after his strangulation death. A forensic pathologist report indicates the boy died a short time after eating his last meal. The Berkeley County Sheriff at the time, M.C. Cannon, says accidental death is ruled out. The coroner's autopsy report reveals the boy was sexually assaulted with some kind of cylindrical object and strangled to death. The case has officially ruled a homicide. Asked if any family members had been ruled out as suspects, the sheriff says, quote, we haven't ruled out anybody. Okay, enter Dr. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective,

author of Money, Mischief, and Murder, the Murdoch Saga, the rest of the story on Amazon. While that's all well and good, my favorite book she's written is Homicide Investigation Field Guide. She actually wrote the book. She also wrote Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide. You can find her at dmichelledupreemd.com Dr. Dupree, it's a real honor to have you and Dr. Kinzion, the rest of the guests as well. Dr. Dupree, explain something to me. How do they know? How would they know? And anybody on the panel that can figure this out, tell me. That the boy was placed in the camper after his strangulation death. How would they know that? Nancy, we look at the body. The body has an enormous amount of evidence. And this is why we do an autopsy to determine the cause and manner of death and what happened.

Wait, let me guess. Does it have anything to do with rigor or liver? It does. And it also has to do with stomach contact. See, you taught me something. I don't know what exactly the point I'm trying to make, but I've got a feeling you're going to explain it. I just wanted credit in case I was right. Okay.

Just in case. Okay, go ahead. How do they know the boy was dead? Little five-year-old Justin Lee Turner. How would they possibly know he was dead before he was put in the cabinet? Nancy, we look at, as you said, rigor mortis, which is the stiffening of the body. And we also look at lever mortis, which is the settling of the blood according to gravity. And when we look at the body, they have patterns on them like that. And so we can tell approximately when he was put into the camper.

We can also look at stomach content. Rigor mortis, the stiffening of the bones, liver mortis as I call it, where the blood settles. For instance, if you die while lying supine, lying on a bed, face up, your blood eventually, once the heart stops pumping, will all settle down to your backside, your back, the back of your legs, your rear end. The blood settles to the lowest common point. So let's just think what she's saying, Dr. Dupree. If you can tell he didn't die in the cabinet based on the autopsy, what if it's live or mortis? What if all the blood in his body, let's just say he's folded over in half and put in there face down, but all the blood has settled on his back.

Then you know he died somewhere else, not there, because the blood had settled in reverse, which is impossible. And that tells us that the body was moved after death. How else can I tell the body was moved? Rigor mortis, again, is the stiffening of the muscles. And when a person is deceased and placed in a certain position, the body will stiffen and it will remain in that position until decomposition sets in. And so we can tell basically how he was placed into that position. He will remain stiff even when taken out from under the cabinet. Now, after about 24 hours of rigor mortis stiffening, doesn't your body loosen back up? It tends to, yes, but it depends on many factors, such as the temperature and other things. You know, another thing, well, there's so many things, it's really upsetting about this,

but I also hear that autopsy reveals the boy had been molested, sex molested with a quote cylindrical tool, a cylindrical object. What are they saying? Don't hold back please just just tell me like it is. Basically they're saying that there was an object probably inserted into his anus that was a sexual assault. So the boy was anally raped with a cylindrical object, strangled, not necessarily in that order, but if there is bleeding to the anus, the rear end, then we know he was raped in life, not post-mortem, then strangled, then put in the camper. Would you say, Dr. Dupree, that that is the correct order of events? I would think so, Nancy, yes. And how horrible that is to have this done to you. Well, my response to that, Dr. Kenneth Kinsey,

is somebody better get the death penalty. You've got a five-year-old little boy, anally raped, strangled, and stuffed into a cabinet in a camper that's about the size of a microwave at best. Uh-uh. If you're going to have the death penalty, this is the case. Would you agree or disagree? You know, I'm pretty strong on a death penalty, Nancy. And the question you've got to ask is, is this a taxonomy of staging this scene? And was it prior to death or was it done after death?

Wait, wait, wait. You actually think there's a difference? OK, yeah, I think there's a difference, too, because the child suffered even more during an anal rape but well there's no difference in the way we look at it but there's a difference in the psychology of the killer do i care if they kill the boy and staged it or if they well of course wait are you telling me you think the outcome of a dp would turn on whether the boy was raped post-mortem after death or before death i think a successful prosecution depends on those elements well you know what you stick to what you're doing and i'll stick to what i'm doing okay i'll stay in my lane if you stay in yours okay i can't guarantee that's going to happen am Amy Parsons is with us. And Amy, I want to apologize for reanalyzing

these facts because I know that they are hurtful. But when did you learn, Amy Parsons, that your little cousin, Justin Lee Turner, age five, had been anally raped and strangled and then left in a scene that was clearly staged. Any altering of a scene, such as placing the body in a different location, is staging. When did you learn all of those facts, Amy? I personally didn't learn as far as the sexual assault part until I was older myself and actually started researching on my own because that's something that my family did not actually put out to us as kids. The rest of it, as far as him being strangled, placed in the camper, of course, I knew when

it happened. As soon as everything came out, we knew all that information then. You know, that's a phenomenon that I've seen and experienced. What you're saying, Dr. John Delatore, I think I need to shrink. In our culture, we can say, oh, the little boy was strangled dead, then he was folded up like laundry and stuffed into a cabinet. But we can't say he was raped. She's right. No one wants to touch that with a 10-foot pole.

Why? Well, I think there's a bunch of reasons why, but some of it is derived from the very puritanical way in which we view sex. This is not sex. This is a crime. Well, we'd rather not discuss anything revolving around a sexual assault at all, right? We'd rather just push it to the side. We'd rather push victims to the side rather than actually confronting the reality of what it means to be sexually assaulted. You're right. You're absolutely right. It's not just Amy's parents and relatives that didn't tell her that her old cousin had been anally raped. This is universal. I've seen it so many times. I remember in a case I was helping on, I hadn't started trying cases yet.

There was a preschool teacher that was kidnapped in Atlanta and murdered. I remember the defendant's name, Emmanuel Hammonds. And as I recall, there was a woman that turned out to be a similar transaction and she had been kidnapped and raped and she had never told her husband because she was ashamed and she got up on the stand and testified, but she never would mention the rape. And I'm like, I couldn't understand being a new prosecutor. I had never encountered that before. Why won't she testify to the rape and point to the defendant? In her culture, it was taboo to even talk about it. So it's very, very pervasive.

Okay, let's move forward. Take a listen to Sheriff Dwayne Lewis because I'm seeing a lot of red flags here. Listen. Pamela changed her name. They moved to the upstate. And nobody that I'm aware of from any of the family has ever heard from them again.

Isn't that strange? I never got one phone call. One phone call from his daddy or his stepmother. What are y'all doing about my son's death? Not one. What does that tell you? Investigators asked the Turners to take a polygraph test and were taken to SLED headquarters. The day after the couple took the polygraph test, they hired a Charleston attorney, Dale Cobb, to represent them. Cobb refused to let the Turners speak with investigators.

You know, this reminds me of a colleague and a friend, Mark Klass, now a giant in crime fighting. When his daughter, Polly, was kidnapped, assaulted, and murdered, of course they came to his place and wanted to search his home. He's like, fine, do whatever you have to do. Take my fingerprints, take my blood, take anything and my hair, search my place, search my office, search my car. So you can get on and find who took Polly. Right. But these parents, let me understand this. Nick Reagan joining us WCSC. The parents, the stepmom changes her name and they move away and they never check on

this little boy, Justin Lee Turner's case. Did that happen? That definitely happened, Nancy. ever check on this little boy, Justin Lee Turner's case? Did that happen? That definitely happened, Nancy. It was such an important part of that press conference to hear the sheriff reveal that in those 34 years, he had never received a phone call or an inquiry from now Megan Turner or Victor Turner to get an update in the case of their dead child. He did say, though, during that press conference that when he was elected, when he was first elected, he heard from Justin's family.

They called and said, hey, what's the update? And what are you doing about this cold case? Another thing I just want to mention really quickly is that we talk about the Turner's silence in this case. They did that polygraph, but then they were silent to investigators for effectively 34 years. One thing that Dwayne Lewis, the sheriff, said again during that press conference, a reporter had asked him, have you heard from them? Have they spoken? Have you asked them questions?

And he said, once again, they are maintaining their silence. They took the three-hour car ride from Lawrence down to Berkeley County. He didn't say a word to them. I agree, Nick Reagan. And also, I believe that was Dilettori speaking. But then a big forensic clue. As fishy as the dad and stepmom are acting, that's not enough to prosecute a case or even bring a case. Listen.

The murder weapon, a ligature, was found inside the Turner's home and according to a report by WCSC, it matched the marks on Justin Turner's body. Microscopic fibers on the ligature were consistent with Justin's shirt collar material. According to a forensic pathologist, Justin's body was hidden in a cabinet in the camper a short time after his death, near the time he was last seen alive. So he's last seen alive by the stepmom who goes and takes a shower instead of walking him to the bus stop. He never makes it to the bus stop. And at autopsy, the medical examiner can determine that he was murdered very quickly after he was last seen alive, after stepmom saw him. So what happened within the next 30 minutes? Now we have the

ligature found in the dad's the bio dad stepmom's home and I need to understand Dr. Kenneth Kinsey forensic expert you can find him at Kinney Kinsey and Associates. How is it that the ligature, what did it have, fibers from Justin's shirt on it? Yeah, Nancy, advancements in forensic testing, I just commend them for holding on to that evidence. But from my research, the fibers are consistent with the collar on Justin's shirt. And hopefully they've got some great impression documentation or they may even have the ligature itself, which would be even better. But that's strong, strong forensic evidence. To Nick Reagan joining us at WCSC, what was the ligature they're talking about? Was it a rope? Was it pantyhose, a scarf? What was it?

Right now, I'm not 100 percent certain what that ligature they're talking about was it a rope was it pantyhose a scarf what was it right now i'm not 100 certain what that literature was but you can look at the evidence here that uh the sheriff brought out he pointed to two things he pointed to that uh that uh consistent marks on the neck with the ligature and those fibers which new new technology was able to bring out that evidence. And then the other thing, which was mentioned a little bit earlier, but again, attributed to modern technology in breaking the cold case, was that stomach content. Beforehand, the sheriff had suggested that Justin could have been murdered 24 to 48 hours beforehand. But now with that new technology, they looked at the stomach contents and said, no, he was murdered the morning that Pamela Turner says that he was getting on the bus. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Dr. John Delatore, James Shelnut, and Dr. Kinsey, we know that the scene was staged.

Now, that can mean anything. I had one case where a woman was found dead on her bed and the killer had taken her bathroom wicker basket and put it over the victim's head. I've seen cases where a murder was staged to look like a suicide. That's staged. It could be a number of things. This scene was staged. And what I have learned is just in my own experience, practically speaking, anecdotally, this is not a statistic, that when someone takes the time to stage a scene, they are known to the victim. In other words, a guy breaks into your home to burgle, sees you, it goes, oh, and shoots you, then runs. He doesn't take the time to make it look like a, a suicide. No, no. They just want to get away. All right. It's someone that's connected to the

victim that will take the time to stage the scene. Like Alex Murdoch. What about it, Kinsey? Good point, Nancy. I mean, is that what you found, Shilna? You were 27 years on Metro Major Case. Who takes the time to stage something when it's a random killing? Well, the person who takes the time to do that is the person who knows that if they don't stage it, it's going to be very obvious that they were involved with it. So they want to stage it to make it look like somebody else did.

It's very simple. Dr. Delatore, can you explain it in psychology talk? It's about recognizing the level of guilt that the person knows is going to be reflected onto them. And because of that, they have to mask it. They have to hide the behavior, both for themselves, but also to other people, especially to other people, because of the quickness with which they will be found out.

The only person that has that ability is a person that has time to do so and the wherewithal to do it. Mm-hmm. Take a listen in our Cut 12 to the sheriff, Sheriff Dwayne Lewis, Berkeley sheriffs. So there's been a lot of different things and statements made. When you look at the scene, you can assume by looking at it that it was somewhat a staged scene to make it look like something that it wasn't.

And all that will come out. We'll get to all that. But there's a lot of inconsistencies in the story and the information and what the deputies, detectives, and SLED agents, DNR agents were told when they first got there to try to piece the thing together. We're told by the bio dad, Victor Lee Turner, and the stepmother, Pamela Turner, something very, very damning was learned from the contents of this little boy's stomach. Tell me. And at the time of the murder, that could not be analyzed in the way that it can be analyzed now. Tell me about the contents of his stomach. Right, Nancy. You know, this is a 34-year-old cold case. In 1989, the forensic evidence technology just wasn't there to seal up the case. But what we've known in the last couple of years, the sheriff came out and he said new technology is why we're able

to break this cold case. The contents of the stomach. the contents of the stomach the contents of the stomach here in in this case they said they were able to look at the contents of the stomach to determine time of death and they compared it to statements they were they had collected from the scene to nail down when they believed he uh when justin had been killed, and they determined that he had been killed that morning, that his stepmother said he got on the bus. You know, that's amazing, Dr. Michelle Dupree. I thought that trying to determine time of death based on stomach contents was not that easy.

So how did they do it, Dr. Dupree? Nancy, you're right. It's not that easy because everybody metabolizes their food differently. But when there's still stomach contents available to analyze, then you do know that it is within a range of timeframes. And so you can determine from that that it was relatively short. In the last hours, a major development. Take a listen to Sheriff Lewis.

I wanted to report to citizens of Berkeley County that yesterday, January 9th at 10 a.m., detectives from the Berkeley County Sheriff's Office was able to arrest and take into custody Victor Lee Turner and Pamela Turner, also known as Megan Turner. They were taken into custody at their home, which is located in Cross Hill, South Carolina, which is in Lawrence County. Lawrence County Sheriff's Office assisted us with the arrest. They have been transported back to the Berkeley County Jail. They are incarcerated at this time. Nick Reagan, has the death penalty been announced? Not to my knowledge.

I want to go to Amy Parsons joining us. This is then little five-year-old Justin Turner, cousin. Amy, since the time of your little cousin's murder, what toll has this taken on your family? It's taken a tremendous toll. I mean, you got to think, his mom literally called the sheriff's office every day that she lived begging, please, can you find who killed my son? She passed away in 2004 and never got that,

that peace of mind. Um, she felt as everybody else did at the time who did it, but at the same time, they, they were not prosecuted. I mean, they were still out there. So for her, it was, it was something that affected her, her, you know, basically her whole life. It was very traumatic. That feeling of helplessness, of injustice, knowing that the killer was walking free and that this little boy had been raped, mistreated, and murdered, and nothing happened for all those years. I mean, I can see that tearing a family apart, Amy. Luckily, you know, our family is a strong family. We held it together, and we just wanted what was best for our family, and that was to put the murderer behind bars. It didn't matter

who it was. I mean, we just wanted them to serve time for what they had done. And what has the family reaction been with the arrest of his own bio dad and stepmother? Like I said before, our family felt like we knew who had done it, there just wasn't enough evidence there for them to be able to prosecute on it. I knew that it would take something like being able to forensically tie them. Of course, over the years, I've stayed in touch with the sheriff's office, and they've sent different things to be analyzed. And it just, it's kind of bittersweet. It's one of those moments where, you know, you're so happy and excited that we finally got to this point, but there's still a long road ahead. And this is what Sheriff Dwayne Lewis has to say.

I have to say I'm hoping and I'm praying that Justin is looking down from heaven rejoicing that today there's some justice. There's still some justice in this country. Sheriff Lewis, truer words were never spoken. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.