Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - EVIL VOICE TERRORIZES 8-year-old girl in her pink bedroom through NANNY CAM! Hear Mommy!

Episode Date: December 20, 2019

A Mississippi mother says someone hacked into her Ring camera and spied on her young daughter. She’s now warning other parents about the dangers of the security camera.Ashley LeMay says that whoever hacked into her Ring system not only watched her young daughter in her bedroom but also talked to the girl.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the case: Ashley LeMay: Mother of daughter scared by Ring hack Ben Levitan: Telecommunications Expert Dr Daniel Bober: Forensic Psychiatrist John Cardillo: Host America Talks on Newsmax tv, Former NYPD  Levi Page: CrimeOnline reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. A home security device hacked and mommy finds out some freak is whispering to her little girl in real time. Some perv on the other end playing tiptoe through the tulips to her eight-year-old little girl, telling her, I'm your best friend. I'm Santa. Ashley had just installed the security camera to watch over her children. Her little girl shouting, who is that? As some guy tries to engage this child in conversation, Ashley releasing the video, which you can see at CrimeOnline.com, talking to her 8-year-old child through the Ring security camera in her bedroom. How is it happening? How do we stop it? I did a lot of research on these before I got them you know like I really felt like it was safe

the camera was supposed to be an added level of protection a way for Ashley LeMay to keep an eye on her three daughters and seem close by while working her overnight nurse shifts. Hello there. The ring camera was a Black Friday deal and came with a recommendation from another mom. She had one and she was, you know, like watching her kids on her phone and I was like, oh, you can actually speak to them. That's really neat. Four days after the camera went up, 8-year-old Alyssa heard something strange coming from her room. The first thing that was in the hallway. I thought of my sister, so I heard some music.

It was like tiptoe to the window. I saw her coming upstairs, and I heard some banging noise. I was like, who is that? Dear Lord in heaven, you were just hearing WMC5 Action News Report Jessica Holley describing a horrible, horrible event in any mother's life. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. More and more we are hearing about home security devices being hacked by perps. How is it happening? How do we stop it? Joining me right now, the mother who discovered her ring camera had been hacked, Ashley LeMay. With me,

Ben Levitan, my longtime friend and colleague, telecommunications expert out of Raleigh. You can find him at benlevan.com. He's been with me through thick and thin. Dr. Daniel Bober, renowned forensic psychiatrist. You can find him on Instagram, Dr. Daniel Bober, and the host of America Talks on Newsmax TV, former NYPD, John Cardillo. But right now to Levi Page, investigative reporter, crimeonline.com. Levi, what happened? Nancy, this family in Mississippi, this is just outside of Memphis, claims that a hacker got access to their ring camera that they placed in their 8-year-old daughter's bedroom.

They only had the ring camera for a couple of days. It was a Black Friday deal. And this mother, Ashley LeMay, she got it because she's a nurse, she works overnights and she wanted to have a way to have quick contact with her children while she's working but here's where things get creepy a voice started talking to her eight-year-old daughter and was calling himself Santa Claus and saying I'm your best friend and Ashley LeMay said in another incident their father was watching the children while she was out of the house and music started playing and this voice started wait a minute wait

a minute right there right there hold on Levi Page sometimes I wonder should that be a felony because when I have to go out of town and I come home and David has had the children, it looks like bears have been living in the house. I find their snacks that of course I pre-prepare before I leave town. There'll be like days of them stuffed down the backpacks. There'll be debris on the floor. It looks like animals have been nesting in our home. And I'm like, David, what happened? He goes, they're alive. Well, I can't argue with that. They are alive.

Knock on wood and praise the Lord. But I'm telling you, okay, that may be the first issue right there, leaving the twins alone with dad. But that aside, straight out to the mom who brought this to light, Ashley LeMay. She releases chilling video of a hacker talking to her little girl through the Ring security camera in the little girl's bedroom, saying, I'm your best friend. I'm Santa Claus. Ashley LeMay, you must have had a heart attack.

Yes, I couldn't even get words out when I first watched the feedback from the app. I mean, I really couldn't believe it. I mean, this is, I know I've said this before, but it really is my worst nightmare. And it's the reason that I didn't have a camera for the longest time. I mean, it's just, I mean, even hearing it now, it's chilling. You know, Ashley, I have friends and they're very very intelligent they've got an incredible business they created from nothing they have three awesome beautiful children they're convinced the government is spying on them okay that's the only drawback

no they're not out on some remote compound with barbed wire around they live in a nice neighborhood with a nice house and all that they're convinced and they will not have alexa they won't have any devices such as that in their home because they're convinced they're being spied on my response please i insist that you do spy on me after about five minutes you'll run the other way your ears will be bleeding from the boringness of our home but Ashley having somebody spy on your child is a whole nother can of worms tell me what happened don't leave anything out start at the beginning so we purchased these cameras and I mean to be honest with it being a Black Friday deal I think that's kind of the way it was reported. But it was more or less that I am either at work or at home with my four children all the time.

I mean, I am... Oh, let me tell you something, Ash. Listen to this. For all those years on CNN, HLN, wherever I may be, people would think I was looking over a little laptop. It wasn't. It was the nanny cam. Because I physically

could not work without having them where I could just glance over and make sure they were okay. Same thing with Swift Justice. I remember when I was adjudicating Nicki Minaj's case, I was actually looking over to make sure the twins were okay. Just a glance, not staring at it, just make sure they're alive. I get it, Ashley. I mean, that's the only way I can work is knowing they're okay. So when you said you think it was a Black Friday, what now? What does this have to do with Black Friday? So that's what I was kind of getting at was, you know, it wasn't that the cameras were on sale.

That really wasn't anything to do with it. It was just this was the first time that I had gotten out of the house. And I mean, the longest time. So one of my friends had a camera and, you know, I'm over here like getting anxiety because I haven't seen my children in, you know, 35 minutes. And she is showing me where she's watching her children on a camera. And, you know, we're in the process of going to the next door and she's showing me on her camera, you know we're in the process of going to the next door and she's showing me on her camera you know where she can watch her children and interact with them so I mean at that moment man I need this I mean I need this to not be so paranoid at work you know I need this to be able to do my job you know effectively now hold on another moment Ashley Ben Levitan

Dr. Daniel Bober, John Cardillo, and Levi Page. You know, you can just tune out and check your emails and your texts because I know you don't care. You don't care about being in constant touch with your children. When I hear a child say, mommy at the airport, I cringe. I look for it. I want to help it. It's innate. I can't help it. Once you have children, something takes over your brain and your body. And when you're apart from them, you're convinced they're being kidnapped or maimed or hurt, or they're getting their feelings are on the playground. You can't stop it. You can't turn it off. Bober, that's probably too much for you to shrink right now. I'll meet with you privately. Ashley, I get it. I get it. So you go in, you want a security device. What happens?

So I purchased a security device, and the next day we put them up. I was never prompted to set up two-factor authentication or anything like that, which is an extra security feature that Ring offers, but we did not know it at the time. I was never sent an email. Oh, my stars. I just turned that down on my phone yesterday. I got so mad when the Ring doorbell wanted me to do two-factor authentication. Authentification.

Authentication. I'm like, I don't have time. You're scaring me, Ashley LeMay. Listen to this, guys. Playing back the ring video recording, this is what her parents saw as Alyssa searched for the source of the noise. Who is that? I'm your best friend.

I'm Santa Claus. Mommy! I'm Santa Claus. Don't you want to be my best friend? I watched the video, and I mean, like, my heart just, like, you know, I didn't even get to the end where she's screaming like mommy um before like you know I ran inside. Hello there. It's a nightmare for every parent. Who is that?

I'm your best friend. Some creep has hacked into the ring surveillance camera in a little girl's bedroom. And he's talking directly to her. Mommy! I'm Santa Claus. Don't you want to be my best friend? You can mess up your room. You can break your TV.

You can do whatever you want. Then he ratchets up the terror by playing an eerie tune. Tip-toe through the window. That's a recording of Tiny Tim performing on the Roan and Martin's Laugh-In Show in 1968. Tip-toe through the window, by the window. I was like, who is this guy? Eight-year-old Alyssa LeMay and her mom spoke to me from the bedroom where it happened in Mississippi.

Can you tell me what your reaction was when you heard what was going on? I was, I mean, extremely alarmed. I mean, I still am. I think I'm just a little bit, you know, like in shock right now. Our buddy, Les Trent at Insight Edition, along with Ashley LeMay with me right now, the mom that discovered some perv speaking to her little girl through the Ring camera device. I'm going to get with our other guests, Ben Levitan, Daniel Bober, John Cardillo in one moment, but back to Ashley LeMay.

Yeah, I'm your best friend. Now take your clothes off. That's where that was headed. That is exactly how I felt. Oh, so you get the device, you get home, and what happens? So anyway, you know, like I said, we had set this up, and, you know, we had it for a couple days. I would watch them.

I mean, I really didn't watch them very often. My 4-year-old has a history of febrile seizures. So anytime I would get emotional at work, I would watch the camera, make sure everything was okay. And then I could get back to doing my job. And it was great. I mean, I really did like it. And then, you know, when I was walking into work, I would say, love you, good night, you know, just to make them feel like I was still there. And then, you know, I would, when I was walking into work, I would say, love you, good night, you know, just to make them feel like I was still there. And this is something they were, they were very aware of. They, they liked the camera too. They liked being able to, you know,

they would wave at it and, you know, things like that to, you know, so they knew when that light was blue, that it was me or dad watching them, you know, and it wasn't something that we watched very often. It was only at night when I wasn't home basically to reassure them. So anyway, for the first couple days, everything was fine. Well, we were getting ready to go on a cruise and we were packing and, you know, I work nights. So at this point I'd been awake for 48 hours at least. And I was, you know, packing up for the cruise and getting everything together and I you know ran down the street um to um run some errands and you know just finish up what we needed to do before we went out of town and came back and on

my way back I got a text message from my husband and he said um are you messing with them on the camera and I'm thinking no I mean I'm not even I'm not even, I'm not even, I'm driving, you know. So I got to a stop sign and I looked at it. I just saw the text message where he said, I'm about to throw these cameras out. Somebody is playing the tiptoe song through the camera. And at first I'm thinking, there is no way, you know. So I get to my driveway and, I mean, I couldn't even walk inside before I watched it because I just, you know, it was just in disbelief. And I thought it was my husband messing with him at first. So I watch it.

And as soon as I heard the person's voice, I mean, I ran in the house and my heart was beating so fast and you know when I say this is my worst nightmare I mean you know I this is why I've avoided cameras I've never had an Alexa or anything like that I mean I don't even have Siri enabled on my iPhone because I'm I'm just you know I've always been weirded out by things like that and I always say if something will happen it'll happen to me this is kind of my life story you know. Jackie and I are both saying no no it's gonna happen to us whatever's gonna happen to us so you actually brought me to tears because that anxiety hearing you talk about your anxiety over your children I feel the. I'm just, I know it's crazy. I hate to even admit it in front of Dr. Daniel Bober, but sometimes, especially after I do this program, I just have

to get in the car and go drive by the school and make sure it's not in lockdown because I just worry so much. So you run in the house and what did you do? I ran in the house and, you know, first just check to make sure that my daughter was even there. I mean, and, you know, in some reports it is said that, you know, I thought that it was somebody local. But to be honest, I think I knew that it was a part of something bigger from the very, the very moment that I heard that voice but I was just trying to to make myself think that it was that I was paranoid because I had just I mean probably two weeks prior to this just started feeling like myself you know I have an infant and I had really bad postpartum depression and so this is something that I the cameras were kind of like a way I'm like okay I'm getting myself back I am going to stop being so paranoid I'm gonna you know just get measures in

place to you know just to feel like myself again and do what I need to do as a mother to be able to be you know I'm sure you experience this too you know the guilt from being a working mother and you know wanting to give all of yourself to your career and also all of yourself to your children. And this was a way I felt like I could be in two places at once. And, you know, when you say that, you know, like the government is buying on you and things like that, that's one of those things where, you know, to be honest, that's kind of before this happened in my mind, worst case scenario was somebody saw a night vision view of my baby sleeping but you don't think about somebody interacting with your child at

such an impressionable age you know she's eight years old and you know that's what I felt I felt like they were trying to gain her trust well that's exactly how sex molestation, child abuse, child kidnaps happen. Because I've spoken to so many child abuse, I mean, literally thousands, thousands of victims and parents of child abuse victims. And that's how it starts. The very first one I ever became aware of was before cell phones, before any of these devices. I had a very, very learning disabled boy. And he was, I would say, if I can remember correctly, about nine or 10. But what he could do is he loved video games and his mom if he he was to the point where he could do chores he had that much intellect little chores like make up his bed and the mom would give him quarters and he would go to the arcade and a guy started going there very attractive

according to other people not me of course i thought he looked like Satan, but he had a great job. He made great money. He had a great home. He had a girlfriend, everything's just how it works now except through electronics. Right. They don't meet you at the arcade or the playground. They meet you on Fortnite or Snapchat or TikTok or through this device. Now, Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, joining me now out of the Florida jurisdiction on Instagram. He's Dr. Daniel Bober Forensic Psychiatrist joining me now out of the Florida jurisdiction on Instagram. He's Dr. Daniel Bober. Dr. Bober, don't start with me about how I'm overprotective and there's something wrong with me. Just explain to me why her fear about leaving her child is irrational.

You know what? Wait. Explain to me first. Why do people, what joy do they get out of interacting with a child over a webcam? What joy is there in that and scaring the child? It's about power and control, Nancy. I mean, I actually agree with you on this. These devices make me very nervous, whether it's Alexa or whether it's the Ring Cam. Wait.

You don't think the government is spying on you bober do you please they're not they don't care no i think they have too many other things to do besides uh spy on me but i worry that other people like this young lady are being spied on by you know sexual predators that have nothing better to do than figure out this technology so it does make me very uh nervous and it's very unsettling. So all of our seemingly irrational fears are actually rational. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. I mean, there's been... Okay, you know what, Jackie? You've got him on recording saying my fears are rational and normal. There are reports that hundreds of people tuned in to watch live as people were harassed

in their homes, among those who were targeted, children who are still scared after some of these incidents you're about to see. This morning, a possible explanation for these disturbing privacy invasions. Hey, what show is that? Happening across the country. Can you come here? I can't hear you. Case after case of hackers breaking into ring home security systems. What's your name? 13-year-old Blake Benfonte giving a fake name when a stranger started talking to him through the family's Ring camera at their home in New York. What's up, homie? I still see you.

Following him from room to room. The reason why I got the camera was to protect my family, and it's completely backfired. In Kansas, someone peering into the Norris family's living room. Taking pictures of the baby. I'm asleep. Commenting on their every move. That tree is looking really, really good, guys. Wow. Okay.

Hacking, watching parties, people logging on to watch hackers terrorize people live online. You are hearing ABC GMA reporter, our friend Marcy Gonzalez speaking. And I've got to tell you something that I learned through researching my book coming out in June, not a plug, not a plug. Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave. I learned this. Did you know you can go on the dark web and there are, I guess you would call them stations or websites that you go to. And that's all there are, are like hackers. All these, you can go from one to the next to the next and watch people in their homes. Just walking around.

They may be in their kitchen. They might walk by in their underwear. It might be children. That's on the dark web. It certainly is. With me, Ashley LeMay, our star today. Her ring camera hacked and it scared her eight-year-old child, her little girl, when some perv played tiptoe through the tulips sung by Tiny Tim. Nobody will ever forget that.

And began talking to her about how he's her best friend and he's Santa Claus. Okay, let's bring in the big guns. Ben Levitan, John Cardillo, Dr. Daniel Bober. Ben Levitan, you and I have really been through it from every kind of security device, pinging phones, triangulation, cell phone towers, and now hacking. Ben Levitan, a real telecommunications expert, joining me out of Raleigh. Ben, how do they do it? How does it happen? I don't know if I'm going to make anyone feel better because this

is not all that sophisticated, but there are easy cures. Generally, this is how it works. Anybody can download the Ring app. Anybody can do that. Once you download the Ring app, all you have to do is log in with your username and password from anywhere in the world, and you can get into your account. So number one, if someone else has your username and password, they can do that. But this is not the case typically what happens. Here's what happens, Nancy. There have been so many security breaches out there, like Walgreens and UnitedHealth and Facebook, where hackers have stolen millions of username and passwords.

And guess what, Nancy? Most people use the same username and password for all their accounts. So this is how it happens. Ben, I found this out when I was researching for the book. Yes. Most people leave it on default. And that was my next point. And, you know, if they don't leave it on default,

I found out that about, oh, gosh, it's some staggering number, like 70% of people use either 1-2-3-4, 007, 0007, their birthday, some, or, oh gosh, was it 7777? There's a dictionary. Or again, 1-2-3-4. There's a dictionary of 500 words. There's a dictionary of 500 words out there on the internet that anyone can find that most people use as their password. But that being said, Nancy, so if I have a list of usernames and passwords for, say, Facebook, I can go to Ring and try them on that.

I can go on Instagram and try them on that. You know, I can go to any website such as Snapchat or anything and just try those same username and passwords. There's a good chance you're going to get it. You know, Ben Levitan, I'm torn between admiring your knowledge and admitting that you scare me every time you open your mouth. Ashley LeMay, please tell me you did not have it left on default. I did not. And I also did not have an easy password to guess if you did not know me. So that's why this is really shocking to me because, you know, all these things that I'm hearing, I mean, I'm sure that, you know, it had something to do with that. But when we were first told about the dictionary, you know, of most commonly used passwords and things like that, you know, our password was not common. And, I mean, I can share this now because this is no longer my password.

But my password. Wait, wait, before you say it, is it your password on any other thing like your bank or your credit card or your phone? No, this is not. Okay, go ahead. See, my password for my ring account was different than any password I'd ever used. But it was one of my children's names. But it was not something that was, was one of my children's names, but it was, but it was not something that

was, you know, my children have very, I mean, other than Alyssa, they don't have common names. They all have double names, you know, with hyphens. I mean, and it's okay because it's already out there, but, you know, one of, one of my child's names you know is ably kate one of them is ashlyn james and that that's her first name i mean and then one of my daughter's names is adderley and i've never even met another adderley i mean not saying there isn't one but it's not common so for somebody who didn't know me and it was a combination with a very old address that was never even associated with me. Good gravy. Yes.

So, Ben Levitan, if you haven't broken into Facebook or the insurance or the whatever and stolen passwords, how do people hack in? There are very sophisticated ways that someone could have hacked into, for example, into Ring itself. But this is not likely. Most hacks are very, very simple. The device was up and on the default password for a short period of time. It's possible they got it then. It's possible that you got a confirmation email back that was hacked, or your husband had a different username and password. And there are just numerous tools out there, which we call just brute force hacks, that will just try every combination of names and numbers and whatnot until they get something. To John Cardillo, host of America Talks on Newsmax TV, former NYPD,

the specter of someone driving through your neighborhood trying to pick up activity on nanny cams or rings, how does that work? That's a scary thought. Yeah, so as I first saw this case and I watched Ashley's husband on TV, I was infuriated. I want to see this treated as a burglary. You know, back in back in 2004 or five, when the Internet was really proliferating social networks, I was doing a lot of work with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And we realized, Nancy,

that we didn't have laws to address the pedophile sexual predator threat on social networks. Well, now every home has a ring. I have two rings. I'm at home right now. I've got one on my front gate, and I've got one on my garage, which is in the back of the house on that gate to cover both in and out of the house. And then I've got cameras in the house on a different system, the security, the alarm provider. We don't have – and I'm a small government guy. You know that. We've argued about it. But in this case, I would like to see legislation that treats

these people as felony burglars and treats them with the same stiff sentencing that we see when somebody solicits a child over the internet. What happened to Ashley's daughter was predation. It was a predecessor to grooming a child. I agree with you. I think the next step was, hey, little girl, take off your clothes. When you combine that creepy song, this was a disturbed person. I want to see a Jessica's Law type sentence in these laws and damn the trial bar and bleeding heart lawyers that say they don't like mandatory minimums. I'd like to see an offender over 19, victim under 14, 25 years, no parole, first offense, life. Because here's the unintended consequence. Ashley is a nurse.

She's out there trying to save people's lives overnight. But now she's distracted, worrying about her children. And she's never going to trust a home security device again, a camera again. This isn't a joke. We can't laugh this off and say, oh, it's some loser in his mom's basement. Because the, And I'm going back to where you started. Now her family doesn't feel safe in their own home. Now they don't feel safe. And let me tell you how her case resonated. I belong to a couple of law enforcement fraternal

groups. There were cops in the groups putting up posts about Ashley's case saying, hey, if there are any cops in that area, we'll join you guys. We'll sit outside of this family's home off duty. This is how her case has resonated, because people have kids and people have cameras. And they were infuriated because the person that did this to her family was scum, targeting an eight-year-old child in her bedroom with one purpose, to terrorize her and to create fear in that family. And I think we need to address this at a legislative level. And let's also put penalties in place for the people who watch these videos. blood-curdling screams ring out a concerned resident goes outside to investigate captured on her doorbell camera are the sounds of a woman crying out for help you can also hear a man's voice. It appears the cries are coming from this white car zooming down the street.

This is the home where the camera captured the screams and the car speeding away. A neighbor told me she saw the struggle happening just two doors down and it left her terrified. The car was right here. The car was right here, parked right here? Parked right here. The butt of the car was right here. The front of the car was in the street. So if a ring doorbell cam can pick up that screaming outside, what else can happen? Is it an open door? In other words, can the reverse happen? We know now, yes.

Ashley LeMay with me. Her ring camera hacked. I'm looking at the video right now with your little girl just standing there paused as she hears this voice. Ashley LeMay with me right now. Ashley, is there any chance the cops can catch this guy? I really don't know. I mean, I know that with the amount of national attention the story has gotten, I think that they have a much better chance.

And I'm so thankful to, you know, even the person who just spoke about these posts, I actually had no idea about that, that, you know, they had asked people to sit outside my house and things like that. And I really, I mean, I'm really amazed at how everyone has come together to try and help find out who did this. And one thing that I will say is that I feel like they have a better chance because I've had other victims reach out to me. I mean, multiple victims reach out to me and tell me that, you know, thank you for kind of having a voice because a lot of us were scared to speak up. And, you know, because it happened to a child, I felt like I had no choice. That was kind of the only thing that gave me, I guess, a little bit of sense of something I could do for her is just, you know, be her voice and tell her

that I won't allow this, you know, but I think that because they happened around the same time, like all of these hacks that were related to this podcast, they happened between 8.15 and 8.30 p.m., or the majority of them did, and I think that they will be able to narrow it down to one location. If they can find them, I'm not sure, but I do think that they have a lot more information than they do in most cases because of the amount of attention that is received and people you know coming forward to help i was reading about another case that happened um in san jose california through google nest the mom and dad were at work and their 18-month-old baby was home with a nanny and a woman's voice came through the device. She originally stated the family had a nice house,

but then got angrier and angrier and then said, I'm coming for the baby if you don't answer me to the nanny. I mean, can you even imagine that happening? Ring cameras are located all across the country. And very easily, MIT could pull up locations of over 20,000 ring cameras. And it wasn't even hard for them to do. So how it happen can the perp be caught to ashley lemay her ring camera hacked with her little eight-year-old girl being addressed directly by some perv ashley do you believe the perp could be someone you know no i don't um i did at first because they they knew my fears. I mean, I know that Insidious, you know, that movie and that song is, you know, a fear for a lot of people.

But they also knew that, you know, Alyssa was my oldest. And, you know, for a short time, I was a single mom. And not to say that I, I mean, I love all of my children, you know, equally, but we have kind of like a special bond, you know, I feel like more of a protection towards her. So with them interacting with her the way they did, it made me feel like they knew that I was, that was a fear of mine. And, you know, I don't know if at the beginning of the video, you can hear this person moaning while they're watching my child. And there's another video prior to this where it's just playing music and they're making noises, like moaning and things like that. And the video right before that, before this person hacked, was a video of my two-year-old going upstairs to change pants

and I just recently watched that because I was terrified to even see what this person saw um but I felt like at this point I needed to know but do I believe with every ounce of me that this was a child predator yes but I don't think it's somebody i know just because it happened to people across the nation and they were all linked to the same time period and the same podcast and you can hear the same voice in a couple of these videos we were we were the first ones that were linked to the podcast you know our story happened happened on December 4th and all the ones I've heard, I mean, as far as I know, everyone that happened kind of after ours was, you know, about like the 6th through the 10th. And like I said, I don't think it's somebody I know, but I do think

that it's somebody who had, you know, an interest in messing with my child. Are you talking about the Nulled Cast podcast? Yes. Take a listen to our friends at CBS. Yo, what's up? How's your day? The videos are alarming. In the most recent, a disembodied voice scares a woman sound asleep in Connecticut. Hey, what do you want? Just come here. Let me see your face. In another case, a hacker talks to an eight-year-old girl in her bedroom. Who is that? I'm your best friend. I'm Santa Claus. In others, the unknown voices use racist taunts. According to a Vice News report, some of the incidents may have been prompted by Nullcast,

a podcast that encourages hackers to prank ring camera owners and stream it live. Allegedly, those who run the show have used social media to ask hackers to calm down due to the investigations. On its site, Null says the group does not and will not tolerate this kind of harassment. Well, guess what? That's what they're encouraging, it sounds like to me. To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction, Dr. Daniel Bober, it's so scary. And I compare it to people that groom children on the playground or the video arcade or the

mall or in chat rooms. It's the same thing. You talk to the child, talk to the child, convince the child to keep it a secret until you lure the child out of the home. Absolutely, Nancy. I mean, this is pure grooming behavior, like exactly what you said, whether it's in the mall or in a video arcade, it's exactly the same thing. And whether these people are doing it to try to groom these kids or whether they're doing it for pure sadistic indulgence, it's still, you know, in my mind, just a serious crime. Let me tell you something, Bober.

I don't know how you're going to break this down with your psychiatric degree, but I know this, purely anecdotal, but every time I had a peeping Tom, it grew into something much worse, such as child abuse, rape, sodomy, burglary. That's where it always starts. And that's what these people are. They are peeping Tom. Ben Levitan, just explain to me, I find it very difficult to believe that you can't tell the IP address from the person that gains access to your camera. I find that very difficult to understand. Well, Nancy, it's very easy to beat that.

You're just basically routing it through multiple anonymous routers all over the world. I mean, it's very easy to do. It's kind of a system that passes your messages or your requests from one computer to another computer around the world. So it makes it extremely difficult to find that. You could trace it back to one or two links, and that's it, Nancy. I want to go back to Ashley LeMay. Ashley, what's the fallout? How is your child? How are you? What's your message to other parents

um we're really just shaken up at the moment I mean and I think figuring out all of this to do with the podcast and everything else it just kind of confirmed that I'm not as paranoid as I thought or that maybe maybe I am but you know that um maybe, maybe I am, but you know, that, um, maybe I need to be, and that, you know, my child is, she's homeschooled, and so, you know, one of the reasons that we did that was because of bullying, and that being such a real thing, and you know, even locally around near me, um, near my house, not, not too far from me. A teenager recently, you know, committed suicide because of bullying, and that was a real, you know, and we're near a very good school, but that was something that, you know, I felt like my child was safe because she was homeschooled, you know.

I was involved in a community that she was a part of, And, you know, it was never about sheltering or really like control. It was just, you know, that I felt like she was safe and, you know, she was happy. She loved it. I mean, she's now she's wetting the bed. She can't sleep in her room. And, you know, we're, we're trying to flip the room around and all this. And, you know, one thing that we're struggling with is that, you know, we only had our house at the end of March. And, you know, this is something that we worked really hard, you know, really hard for. And, you know, this is something that we all loved.

And this is supposed to be a really happy first Christmas and our new home. And now, I mean, you know, I don't even want to finish Christmas shopping for my children. I just don't want to do anything. You know, I've had to take a medical leave from work. You know, it's turned my whole life upside down. And, you know, over those four days that I have the cameras, you know, it's going to affect my child and me for the rest of my life um and you know she she's kind of up and down but she's you know the one

thing is that she really wants to you know get away from here for a few days um that's something that she really wants and I just you know with having to remodel the room right at Christmas I just don't even know that that's something that you know we can to remodel the room right at Christmas I just don't even know that that's something that you know we can do right now so I think that you know like I said we're just we're having a hard time but one of my messages to parents is that you know when you're reading these stories um maybe look past you know all the questions of why did you have this in a room or why did you do that and look at the fact that you know this is an eight-year-old and there's a much bigger predator out here than you

know than the idea of me having a camera in my child's bedroom um and just realize that it can happen wait wait wait wait ashley are people actually attacking you because you have the nanny cams? Yes. I mean, I've had all kinds of, like, hate messages from them. And I don't care, honestly. You know, anybody can say anything they want to. Because at the end of the day, like, my daughter looked at them and when, I mean, and she came downstairs and she was like this is not Santa Claus and if this would have happened to a child who wasn't loved and who wasn't educated and you

know taught these things then I don't know that their reaction would have been the same so anybody can comment on anything they want to that's fine but i just want them to see the bigger picture here that this like this can happen to you you know ashley i i'm just sick that people have haters have decided to pick on you i mean i'm used to it because i you know i remember my first hate mail it was a death threat from the fulton County jail that was faxed to me okay that really wasn't too hard to to solve but um I was kind of like all right yeah you come and get me when you're out of jail in 25 years okay so but my point is there are so many haters out there. I don't even care about them. I dread the day that my children go on and read all the ugly things that have ever been said. I hate that thought. But you, Ashley, I, anyone else cannot let somebody else stop you from doing the right thing.

And the right thing is to protect your children that's why you had the nanny cams so you could talk to them and protect them i don't understand the haters thinking because clearly you're trying to be close to your children and a nurse to boot it's not like you're some investment banker on Wall Street just trying to rake in the money. You're actually trying to help people. Did you take down the cameras? Yes, we unplugged them immediately. I mean, when they wouldn't, you know,

my husband actually ran in there and said, I've pinged your IP address and I'm sending the police to your house. You know, and then they wouldn't stop. They were actually using racial slurs with my daughter also. And she had never even heard that word. Um, so she, my husband unplugged the cameras and they've, they've been down ever since. I mean, we haven't plugged them back up or, you know, done anything with them. You know, I, I thank God for one thing. And that is that whoever was talking to your child did not lure her out of the home. And my prayer is that she makes complete recovery from this. And I know that is going to be hard. People may not get it, but I know it's going to be hard. Things like that stick with you the rest of your life.

And now you have another duty, Ashley LeMay. In addition from being a nurse and a mom, you've got to help her get past it. Guys, Ashley's message today is to be ever vigilant. We've brought to you some of the world's finest experts to help you fight back against crime and protect your children. I am so honored to have met you even over the

airwaves, Ashley, Ben, Daniel, John, Levi. Thank you. And to all of our listeners, Nancy Grace, Levi, thank you. And to all of our listeners, Nancy Grace, Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.