Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Ex-NFL star Rae Carruth free 18 years after conspiring in pregnant girlfriend's murder

Episode Date: October 23, 2018

2,000 volunteers are searching the Wisconsin neighborhood around where Jayme Closs was last known to be and where her parents were shot to death 8 days ago. Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald says Jayme was in the home when her parents were murdered and he hopes the massive search will find clues about what happened to the missing 13-year-old. Nancy Grace updates the investigation with criminal defense lawyer Jason Oshins, private investigator Vincent Hill, psychologist Caryn Stark, and reporter Alan Duke. Grace also looks at the release from prison of former NFL star Ray Carruth -- a free man after serving 18 years for conspiring to murder his pregnant girlfriend. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Do you know another parent or a soon-to-be parent and expecting mom or dad? Please don't give them another onesie or another toy that you know is gonna end up in the garage or at the Goodwill. Give them something that matters. And what matters the most?

Protecting your child. What do you love the most in the world? Your children. I do. And I will do anything to protect my twins. Go to crimestopshere.com. It is a five-part series with action information that you can use to change your life and protect your child's life. Payments starting at $6.99. Give that as a gift, not another onesie or a plastic toy.

Give them something that matters. Find out how to protect your child out and about at the mall, at the store, at the grocery store, in the parking lot, at home. Find out about protection regarding babysitters and daycare, even online cyber security. Oh yes, my children are online and you better bet I'm doing everything within my power to protect them. Payment starting starting $6.99. I would much rather have that than yet another plastic baby doll or, God forbid, a toy gun. Just what I don't want. Join the Justice Nation. CrimeStopsHere.com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Based on our investigation thus far, we believe Jamie was in the home at the time of the homicides. We believe she is still in danger.

This remains an active investigation. We're following up on every tip. We've received over 1,300 tips in our community and from across the nation. We have closed 1,100 of those. Bombshell news in the search for a missing little girl, Jamie Closs. In the last hours, the Wisconsin Sheriff announces two vehicles of interest are being sought in connection with the missing Wisconsin girl, Jamie Closs. Jamie has just turned 13. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Okay, done. Now...

Through the examination of video camera footage, both from businesses and homes, we have determined two vehicles that were in the Claus home, near the Claus home, at the time of the incident. You'll see three photos up here. The first vehicle is likely a 2008 to 2014 Dodge Challenger, red or orange in color. The second vehicle is likely either a 2006 to 2010 Ford Edge Black or a 2004 to 2010 Acura MDX, black in color. Again, I want to stress these are vehicles of interest only. If anyone sees or has seen these two vehicles in or around Barron County over the past two weeks, they are asked to call our tip line with the time it was observed, location, and license plate number if available. Once again, we are

only going to take tips based on the above information. No other makes and models of vehicles are being followed up on. Also, for the community, this is a good time, now that we have some vehicles of interest, to look for changes in behavior or routine of people. We have the two cars described. Either they don't drive them anymore, they've changed their routine on what they drive or where they drive. Sightings of Jamie, you should call 911. Sightings of this vehicle, you should call our tip line.

We need your help. Jamie's family needs your help. Her parents can no longer help her. When police arrived at their home just minutes after apparently a pocket dial 911, both parents dead. The front door kicked in. The parents shot dead. Neighbors hear two gunshots. And within the minutes after the 911 call is made, the little girl is gone.

Straight out to Alan Duke joining me. Alan, this is major. I'm assuming they're getting this from neighboring surveillance video. It's from surveillance video, not just from neighbors, but also from businesses in the area. These vehicles were seen in the area on video, and they believe they could very well be connected. They're calling them vehicles of interest. There's a lot happening in this case today. This 2,000 volunteer search is something that I'm interested in.

You don't just call for 2,000 volunteers to walk over one area unless you've got a reason to. And the sheriff says investigators think there is a reason. There is a reason, according to sources inside the investigation. Joining me, New York psychologist Karen Stark. Vincent Hill, cop turned private eye, author of Playbook to a Murder. Also with me, renowned criminal defense attorney Jason Oceans, who works in the tri-state area. To you, Vincent Hill, private investigator, what does this mean? Interpret the tea leaves for me.

Well, Nancy, looking at these two vehicles that are vehicles of interest, what this tells me, this is a very small town, three square miles. So it tells me that these vehicles probably don't belong there. You're talking about a Dodge Challenger, which is a very flashy vehicle and possibly an Acura. Those would stand out to those people in that small community. So it tells me it may be someone that came in, went into that home. They knew exactly what, or should I say, who they were looking for to go into that home. So I think these vehicles are key in this case right now, Nancy. At this hour, we know the sheriff has been using drones and infrared to search the area, including nearby densely wooded forest. Jamie Closs missing from her home. And this morning, we are finding out that the investigation is honing in on a local hollow

as police beg for 2,000 volunteers to help with search efforts. And this is just before the teens' classmates gathering for a vigil. The Barron County Sheriff's Office asking for volunteers to gather in order to search the Hungry Hollow grounds. How have they come up with that specific spot, a local hollow? It's not clear if the search is related to a tip regarding the location of Jamie or other evidence that may lead to Jamie. What could that be?

Straight out to Jason Oceans. Jason, I just, every time I think of Jamie, I see her face, and then I see Lucy's face, my daughter. Nancy, that's normal for all parents. I think nationally, whenever we hear that a child is missing and you're a parent of children, it tugs at your heart and makes you think of your own. So you're not alone in associating that. I think the fact that, as Alan mentioned, the town is mobilized, this small town is, you know, testament to them and their commitment to the to the Kloss family for sure. Now when we refer to a hollow

a hollow is for instance a dip in the ground it is kind of like um how would you describe it Alan Duke I would say coming across a hill and then you go down the hill in that whole area. A small valley. Yeah, would be referred to as a hollow. And this particular hollow is what the sheriff's office is asking for volunteers to come. It's Hungry Hollow Grounds. The Barron County Sheriff asking for volunteers to gather today to search the Hungry Hollow Grounds there in Wisconsin, while at the same time the FBI expanding its search nationwide after placing Jamie at the top of the missing persons list.

You know, to Karen Stark, New York psychologist joining me, many people suggested that this little girl was part of the murder of her parents and her own disappearance. I do not believe that. The cops have clearly stated that she is in danger. I don't believe that for one minute someone targeted this girl. Nothing was stolen. No one was sex attacked. There was not a burglary in the middle of the night or when nobody was home. They specifically came after midnight when the lights were all cut off to get in there and get the girl. If they wanted to steal, they could have done it while everybody was gone during the day, Karen Stark. Why do people always think the worst? Well, because that's human nature, Nancy. And I guess that everybody, it's much more exciting sometimes to think that some kind of plot has evolved.

Then, and include this girl, then to see the reality of the fact that there was no, nothing that was stolen. She's 13 years old. This little girl is missing. And let's hope really, Nancy, that she's alive because it's a long time already. And what she has to endure when she's finally found, God willing, she's found. This is the second mass search for Jamie Closs. Nearly 100 gathered last week. But now the sheriffs are honing in on a particular area. This is they announced cars of interest, a Dodge Challenger, red or orange, a Ford Edge, black in color, or an Acura, black in color or an Acura black in color. The tip line is so significant. 715-537-3106 or 855-744-3879. Go to CrimeOnline.com for updates throughout the day in the search for Jamie. Please help us

bring her home. And if you cannot help us physically, please pray for Jamie. Please help us bring her home. And if you cannot help us physically, please pray for Jamie. Do you know another parent or a soon-to-be parent and expecting mom or dad? Please don't give them another onesie or another toy that you know is going to end up in the garage or at the Goodwill. Give them something that matters. And what matters the most? Protecting your child. What do you love end up in the garage or at the Goodwill. Give them something that matters. And what matters the most? Protecting your child. What do you love the most in the world? Your children.

I do. And I will do anything to protect my twins. Go to crimestopshere.com. It is a five-part series with action information that you can use to change your life and protect your child's life. Payment starting at $6.99. Give that as a gift, not another onesie or a plastic toy. Give them something that matters. Find out how to protect your child out and about at the mall, at the store, at the grocery

store, in the parking lot, at home. Find out about protection regarding babysitters and daycare, even online cyber security. Oh, yes, my children are online, and you better bet I'm doing everything within my power to protect them. Payment starting $6.99. I would much rather have that than yet another plastic baby doll or, God forbid, a toy gun. Just what I don't want. Join the Justice Nation.

Crimestopshere.com. Number one. I've been shot. You've been shot? Where are you at, ma'am? I'm eight months pregnant. How'd this happen? You are hearing the sound of Sharika Adams the night that she was shot. She died eight months pregnant with NFL star, the number one draft pick, Ray Carruth, who went on to play, who was playing for the Carolina Panthers.

That night, he had invited his girlfriend, the mother of his baby, out to a movie. They went to a movie, but they were in separate cars at his request. They were going to meet there. He was in front of her as they left a late night movie. And as they drove away, he suddenly hit the brakes. She hit the brakes behind him. And as she did, a car pulled up beside her. Someone came out and shot her. She died.

Her baby was left with cerebral palsy. That baby is now 19 year old Chancellor. He has lived with Sharika's mother, Sandra, free. Take a listen to Chancellor's grandma, who has been raising him all this time as she reacts. I don't even want to see Ray Carruth go to hell. I want him to come to repentance because Ray is never going to have peace in his life until he tells the truth. In the past, I didn't think it mattered that he just do his time, get out, be free, go along his way. But I think as the time gets closer for him to get out, I am feeling very differently. Part of me wants to be there the day he walks out so he can acknowledge his son. And then there's part of me that just wants to be chilling out on a beach somewhere

on October 22nd and not even thinking about that it's October 22nd. You are hearing the woman that has raised baby Chancellor all these years. Well, as it all boiled down, you know how drowning rats are. They'll grab onto anything. Take a listen to the known trigger man testifying under oath in the death, the murder of an eight-month pregnant mom, Sharika Adams. See that? That's the bitch I was talking about. Oh, I see. Break a roof. Oh.

That's the bitch I was referring to who got me into this. Oh. Okay? This is the bitch I was referring to. Oh. He didn't stand up. I stood up for mine. I said I did it. I did it because he made me do it. Okay? He made the other two also.

What about that, Jason Oceans? You're the veteran criminal defense attorney. How do you get around testimony like that? And to this day, the number one draft pick, making $40,000 a game, still says he was not involved. He says he's sorry for his part, but he's never really come clean. Very few come clean, you know, a lot of times. Oh, oh, oh.

Jason Ocean, so you've got children, so you go along with, they did it. They're doing it, Dad. Can I do it? Have you ever said if they jumped off a cliff, would you jump off a cliff too? I bet you have. But you're telling me right now they all do it. Have you ever said if they jumped off a cliff, would you jump off a cliff too? I bet you have. But you're telling me right now, they all do it. Nobody comes clean. That's your defense, Jason Oceans? I expected more. There's no defense. He's done his time subject to the court, 18 years. We look on profile of a lot of cases, cop killers who get loose eventually.

We just don't throw you in a gulag forever as much as the publicity of a heinous crime like this grabs at us. There's regular crime and people being released all the time. You understand the system. It's just a high profile case. Why are you telling me I understand the system like that? Somehow makes it okay. You're a prosecutor, Nancy. You know there's a finite space. No, I think you should have gotten the death penalty for killing her and leaving the baby forever with cerebral palsy. You know what? Listen to Van Brett Watkins at trial.

That's your client, the bitch. At the time that you made that statement, Sharika Adams was fighting for her life, right? Did the captain tell you what happened that day? My question is, Sharika Adams was fighting for her life, wasn't she? She was, but this wasn't about Sharika Adams was fighting for her life, wasn't she? She was. But this wasn't about Sharika Adams. It was about the person who got me involved in all this. For six months, your client did this. This wasn't a one-day affair.

It was for six months he dragged me into something that I didn't want to be involved with. Your client. he dragged me into something that I didn't want to be involved with. Your client. Have you ever referred to women as bitches? It's not something I would do all the time. Oh, yeah, right. He's such a choir boy. He's never called a woman a bitch. Right. Karen Stark, he is lying through his teeth. That was the proven trigger man

who was arranged by Ray Carruth, the NFL star. And he wanted Sharika Adams dead. I remember it like it was yesterday. I sat there and watched that testimony come from the stand because he referred to Sharika Adams, his girlfriend, as a, quote, hoochie mama that was after him for money. So what's his answer? Kill her. Kill her and the baby. But what he didn't count on is Sharika Adams making that 911 call and fingering him, Karen Stark. And now the trigger man is up there saying, while Sharika Adams is lying in the hospital with her baby inside of her, fighting, struggling to live to save the baby,

he says, I hope the bitch dies. Now he's trying to twist that around and make me think he was talking about Ray Caruth. Well, the whole story is like that, Nancy. It's so awful that this woman is pregnant. What's incredible is that the baby even lived, although the baby had cerebral palsy as a result of what happened. But when you think about this, you think about this guy who's like a superstar he's getting to be really famous and this is all of a sudden an albatross on his neck to have this girlfriend and instead of saying let me break up with her and do the right thing he decides it's a good idea to have her killed

until this day he doesn't admit it yet he asked to be forgiven and thought somehow at one point that he should raise his son. Blah, blah, blah. You know, to Vincent Hill, former cop turned PI, author of Playbook to Murder, you know, the title of your book right there tells me you're all about sports and you're all about murder. Vincent Hill, he was already supporting one child out of wedlock, not judging, don't care. What I care about is motive for murder. So he did not want to support another baby. Well, what happens to these guys? They finally make it big and then they what, lose their mind when they get all that money? Well, you can give a man as much money as you want, but you can't take the hood out of him, if you will.

I mean, let's be clear. He took the coward's way out, not only for not wanting to pay for this child. What do you mean by you can't take the hood out of him? Are you suggesting it because he's African-American? Because let me tell you something. We just covered a rich white millionaire that murdered his wife. What, he's full of hood too? That's not what I'm saying, Nancy.

I mean, some people are just predisposed to be evil. And this guy, he took the coward's way out, not only in not wanting to pay for this child, but he went and hired this hit man to do it. He wasn't even brave enough to do it himself. He got this guy who says, oh, well, he made me do it. Well, that's just like saying, well, it's the dude's pants. I didn't really want to do it, but he made me do it.

He was a coward. Oh, right, right, right. This is Van Brett Watkins you're talking about. Listen. I hope the bitch dies. Did you say that? That's thekins you're talking about. Listen. I hope the bitch dies. Did you say that? That's the bitch I was talking about. Oh, I see.

Break a roof. 911. I've been shot. You've been shot? Where are you at, ma'am? I'm eight months pregnant. How'd this happen? I was following my baby daddy, break a roof.

Where? He was in the car in front of me, and he closed down into my foot. I'm going to do this. you are hearing the sound of sharika adams she'd gone to a late night movie with her boyfriend the father of her baby eight months pregnant she was when the dad, Ray Carruth, high-flying football star, slammed on the brakes. She stopped behind him and at that exact moment another car pulled up and opened fire, shooting her. She lingered in the hospital for a period of days and it was then she continued to say, Ray Carruth, the father of her child, was involved. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. As we have reported on CrimeOnline.com, Ray Carruth has just walked free. He walked out of that correctional institute into a waiting white SUV. He wasn't so worried

about Sharika Adams' murder and his child living a life with cerebral palsy that he didn't have time to smile and nod at all of the cameras. But the woman left to raise the little boy was Sharika Adams' mother, Sondra. Listen. You see Mommy Angel's graves? Yeah. Aren't those pretty? Yeah.

Sharika Adams. Yeah. Mommy angel. Ray would never come back here and do anything, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't send someone. So I am a little anxious, and I'm not going to live in fear, but I'm taking a lot of precautions because he usually gets somebody else to do his dirty work,

and we're going to protect lee you are hearing sandra adams and she has taken the little boy chancellor to his mom's grave there was a big flurry of activity when ray caruth said that he wanted to take custody of the little boy chancellor jason oceans has he lost his mind he tried to murder the little boy, Chancellor. Jason Oceans, has he lost his mind? He tried to murder the little boy. He can't have custody. I certainly don't think that anyone is going to afford him custody. That could have been a quick soundbite relative to catching him on his way out. You know, 18 years is a long time to be in prison and reflect. Certainly, Sharika's mom comments on repentance. And, you know, I'll certainly echo that focus relative to that. I don't think he'd be a good caring father based on the facts

and circumstances. So I think it's really a red herring and more food for fodder in terms of our discussion. Well, wait a minute. I don't know about it being a red herring, Jason Oceans. You may be a veteran defense lawyer in New York City and New Jersey, but let me tell you something. He wrote a jailhouse letter to Sondra Adams, Chancellor's grandmother, saying, quote, you know you're not going to live forever because she's the grandma. And I want custody. I want to take Chancellor.

You know what? Over my cold, dead body, Jason Ocean. So it's just not some pipe dream. He planned to take the boy. I would imagine at that point when Grandma passes in 100 years that the state or some other family members would come in and protect Chancellor from this. You'd think so, right? I this. You'd think so, right? I do. You'd think so, but you wouldn't think somebody would gun down the mother of his baby

with her eight-months pregnant. Let me jog everyone's memory. Let me jog Alan Duke's memory as to what exactly happened. Listen, Alan. Storm-wide receiver Ray Carruth found hiding in the trunk of a car in 1999. He forced me to do it. He threatened me and the ones I love. Arrested and charged with hiring a hitman to kill his pregnant girlfriend, Sharika Adams.

Sharika dialed 911 telling the operator someone drove by and shot her on Ray Road in November 1999. She later died in the hospital. Her unborn son delivered by emergency C-section. Can you imagine what they all went through? Alan Duke, do you remember when this happened? And this guy had it all, Alan, $40,000 a game? I remember it quite well. In fact, I remember after she died in the hospital, he fled.

And I think that's an admission of guilt right there. They found him hiding in a trunk in West Tennessee. Surrounded by bottles of urine. I just want to throw that in there. His pants were down around his knees. Talk about a glorious arrest. They find him like in the parking lot of a gas station or something. They open the trunk. Carruth is in the trunk. Yeah, I always do that. Hang out in the trunk with my pants down, TTing in a Coke bottle. But there he was, his pants down. Oh, if I could only have been there for the arrest.

With bottles full of urine around him. What about that, Vincent Hill? That's a pretty long fall from glory, $40,000 a game, to hiding in the back of your trunk with your pants down, surrounded by bottles of urine, Vincent Hill. Yeah, you talk about a fall from grace, Nancy. I mean, it's clear he was trying to get to California.

That's where he told Wendy Cole to take him so he could flee to Mexico. They were on I-40 westbound. Nancy, let me point this out. Can you imagine if Sharika did not make that 911 call where we would be? Would Ray have gotten away with this? Because keep in mind, back in 99- Why are you calling him Ray like your best friends? What, are you having him over for dinner tonight?

Well, I mean, that's his given name. But back in 99, cell phone towers and all that was in its infancy stage. Could you imagine if she had not made that 911 call and died there on the scene? Ray Carruth could have very well gotten away with this. But thankfully, she had all the evidence right there made that 911 call and died there on the scene, Ray Carruth could have very well gotten away with this. But thankfully, she had all the evidence right there in that 911 call. He hit the brakes. Someone pulled up behind me and shot me. I think that sealed his fate.

And I'm glad she was able to make that call. You know, Carruth, as I mentioned, has never admitted guilt. But he wrote this really complicated 15-page letter to CBS affiliate WBTV in Charlotte. And he wrote, quote, I feel responsible for everything that happened. And I just want Sandra Adams to know that truly, I'm sorry for everything. I wonder if that's so she won't sue his pants off for wrongful death action. Or, you know, maybe she already did. So he still can't come clean. He still, even to this day, can't come clean, Karen Stark. What's that all about? That's denial, Nancy. And no surprise. Reminds me of Scott Peterson. No surprise. Yes. It's just like Scott Peterson. That was really

good. And of course, you've covered both of those. And in that respect, you're looking at criminals. Wait a minute. Hold on. Jackie Howard, did you actually shake your head no when I said it reminded me of Scott? Oh, you're shaking your head. Yeah. Because he could not admit to his family and friends and adoring public. He did it. He so did it. He could not accept the concept that he was not the Scott Peterson they all had come to know. Same thing here. What about it, Karen Stark? I mean, the contradictions. If you look at the contradictions between the evidence and in the case of this man, how he's saying, you know, please forgive me.

But what are we supposed to forgive him for if, in fact, he's not guilty? And he's hiding in the trunk of a car. And he's trying to escape. And yet he's... And he's TTing into a Coke bottle. Let me just throw that in. Half attempt of, okay, I'm going to say that. Jason Oceans, I want you, Vincent Hill,

Karen Stark, Jackie Howard, and Alan Duke to all imagine him in the dark of a trunk trying to TT directly into a Coke bottle. Yeah, I'm going to keep bringing it up because it makes Jason Oceans and Vincent Hill cringe. All right, that's why I'm doing it. Well, hey, Nancy, maybe he'll write a book and say Charlie did it,

and he'll give a hypothetical like someone else. See, you're talking about OJ Simpson, and that's what's irritating me because I was just asked recently on Daily Mail TV what's going to happen. You know he's a licensed barber, and he cuts hair for a dollar a cut behind bars. He could go out, watch, watch, and open, like, a luxury barber shop

where they sell, like, booze and food or whatever, like a sports barber. Why am I giving this guy ideas? Like, TV's all around it to watch football games and sports games while you get your hair cut. Just keep watching. And he's going to be lauded and put on a pedestal just like OJ Simpson. And you know what? That may be true. But when I think of Raker Ruth, this is what I think of.

Number one. I've been shot. You've been shot? Where are you at, ma'am? I'm eight months pregnant. How'd this happen? Uh-huh. This is what I think he did it. I don't know what to think. Ray Carruth walked out of the Samson Correctional Institute right at 8 a.m., trading that prison jumpsuit for normal clothes, a black snow cap and a leather jacket. He was escorted by several corrections officers into this white suburban that immediately sped off. Carruth was convicted of being the mastermind behind the murder of his pregnant girlfriend, Sharika Adams, who was shot four times while driving down a street in Charlotte.

Thankfully, doctors were able to save her son, Chancellor, who's now 18 years old and suffers from cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy will afflict him for the rest of his life. Now, we also heard from Ray Carruth himself. Take a listen to the former NFL star and convicted killer speaking to WSOC-TV. I'm excited just by being out of here. I'm nervous just about how I'll be received by the public. I still have to work. I have to live.

I have to exist out there. And it just seems like there's so much hate and negativity towards me. I'm actually somewhat frightened. So I just, you know, it's a lot of mixed emotions, but mainly I'm just worried about how I'll be received. So coming out of here, what means the most to me isn't regaining my freedom, but hopefully having an opportunity to he is going to be received, what people think of him. Karen Stark, you're the New York psychologist.

Put a shrink on that. Because he's narcissistic, Nancy. He's a pathological liar. He can believe his lies, even if it's contradictory. And it's all about him. Then he throws in at the end that he wants to be a good father to the son whom he actually wished was dead, or he wouldn't have tried to shoot the mother while she was pregnant. So if you look at what he's saying, it's just a bunch of hogwash. None of it makes any sense at all. Pathological liar, narcissist, and in denial. You know, that's a lot of very impressive terms.

Let me go to Jason Ocean's criminal defense lawyer. Jason, to me, what it boils down to, he just does not want to admit what he did. Well, you know, Karen hits it on the head, the narcissism. I mean, you know, these are star athletes who were coddled from an early age and put on a pedestal, and the fact that he could think that in that stage of his life that this is what he needed to do rather than to be a man and move forward, you know, just highlights it, the narcissism. You know, he's focused about him, his look, and all he's received.

Not enough about his son. Well, you know, that's, I think, what goes into what really happened to start with. He did not want to be saddled with another child. He did not want to pay child support. Take a listen to Carew's teammate, Frank Frank Garcia speaking to WUZY-TV. I don't know if you think of anybody that's working in you know next to you or that you speak to every day is capable of doing something like that. He's going to be out in public and you know I don't know if you've ever sat next to a convicted you know killer or somebody's success as I haven't and

I don't know how I would react to that. It would be a little nerve wracking to say the least, I'm guessing. You know what? Birds of a feather flock together. Listen to Van Brett Watkins. And you've got a gun there that you said he told you to get down in Atlanta, right? He did. The purpose of that gun, according to you, is to carry out this shooting, right? Exactly. And so you get this call and you're petrified, and so you go over there because you're so petrified, but you don't bring the gun that you supposedly bought for purposes of this hit, right?

Exactly. So you're sort of a hitman without a weapon. Is that what you are? If that's what you want to say. Well, that's what you were, according to you. If that's what you... I could kill you with my hands. Okay. Is that what you were?

I could kill you with my hands. I don't need a gun. Okay. I didn't need a gun to kill you. I can kill you with my own hands. I'm sure the jury went home with that ringing in their ears. Probably had nightmares. Yeah, Nancy, I think one of the jurors described it best that he was glad that marshals were in the courtroom. He actually went on to say, I could rip you apart with my bare hands like a rag doll. So you're painting yourself as this very violent, brutal killer. So why would you go on this stand and say that? It didn't help at all.

Well, it shows there's no self-control. But my point with this is birds of a feather flock together. You lay down with a dog, you wake up with a flea. That's just how it goes. So if he's such an angel and he had nothing to do with Sharika Adams murder, what was he doing? Hanging out with Van Brett Watkins, the trigger man. I mean, look around at who your friends are. And I am not because Lord, you know, think, think about it. Alan, do you, you know, I'm certainly no Bible scholar, all right? But Christ hung out with

hookers and tax collectors and bad guys and good guys and great people and the disciples. He hung out with everybody. My point is not to look down on people in any way, but look at who you are choosing to be with. Who are your children choosing to be with? The school bully or the A student? Who? Who are your children hanging out with? Who are you hanging out with? Because that is a reflection of you, I think.

Am I crazy, Karen Stark? Not at all. Of course not, Nancy. Am I crazy, Karen Stark? Not at all. Of course not, Nancy. That's exactly true. And if you think about the fact that here's somebody who is actually bragging about the ability to kill and yet saying, I had nothing to do with it. All the contradictions here are outrageous. And it's no surprise that they wound up going to jail. Well, is everybody sitting down?

Y'all better lay down because let me tell you something. When Ray Carruth walked out of that CI, people actually started clapping. They were clapping. Okay. I don't really know what to make of that, that people were clapping when Ray Carruth walked out of jail. You know what? I'm all happy for second chances. You know what?

And let's just see what Ray Carruth does with his second chance because he's got it. He is a young man. He is out free. He's walking amongst us right now at this very minute. He can start all over. But I just wonder, based on what he was saying, is he really going to start over or is it just more of the same? I remember this. Number one, did I get shot?

You got shot? Where are you at? I'm eight months old. I remember this. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.