Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Exclusive: Dad’s lawyer says perv teacher gave kidnap-girl back rubs at school

Episode Date: March 24, 2017

The Tennessee teacher now on the run with a freshman student frequently gave the 15-year-old girl back rubs and held hands with her at school, according to the lawyer for the teen’s father. There is a nationwide lookout for Tad Cummins, 50, wanted for aggravated kidnapping of Elizabeth Thomas. Nancy Grace interviews attorney Jason Whatley in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Elizabeth Thomas was brand new to the Cullioca School in Murray County. She started as a freshman this year, entering the public school system for the very first time. Investigators say that she is with Tad Cummins. TBI says that Cummins was a teacher. A student reported seeing Cummins kissing Elizabeth in his classroom in late January. Cummins told two students he's a father figure to Elizabeth. He stole my daughter from me.

She's 15. He's 50. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Police arrested Elizabeth's mom, Kimberly Thomas, last year. They charged her with five counts of child abuse and neglect. If a person was looking for a teenager that could be easily influenced, I would say that she would be one that would definitely attract that kind of person. days are passing and still no sign no credible sign of a missing Tennessee schoolgirl Elizabeth Thomas has there been a sighting in Corpus Christi Texas this case gets national attention when it is revealed her 50-year-old pervy health sciences high school teacher makes off with her

after he lies to his wife that morning that he's going on a job interview. Job interview, my rear end. He took this little girl and has vanished in his silver Nissan Rogue. This is Crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grayson. I want to bring Elizabeth home alive. If we can get her home alive, it will take her years of therapy to work through what has happened to her as the story slowly comes out about who is Elizabeth and who is her family. We've learned a lot. This little girl, beautiful, blonde-haired, hazel eyes, comes from a very disturbed background. Her mother, the mother of 10, yes, Elizabeth has nine siblings. Her mother has been charged with mistreating her children, beating Elizabeth, throwing her down basement stairs, locking her in the basement, making her take her clothes off in front of other people.

That's just what I know she's charged with. What may have happened behind closed doors, we'll never know. But I can tell you this, right now, Elizabeth has been kidnapped by her school teacher, her married 50-year-old teacher, Tad Cummins. And joining me right now as a very special guest, Elizabeth's father, Anthony Thomas, lawyer, very well-respected lawyer in that Tennessee community, Jason Watley, is with me right now, hoping to shed light on the case to bring Elizabeth home. Jason, thank you for being with us. Thank you, Nancy.

Jason, you say that as a father yourself, if you had had any idea then what you're learning now, there would be bloodshed, and I'm on board with that. What are you learning that I don't know what you can tell us that is? Nancy, the grooming process that this, I think you described it as a pervert, and that's a good word, but the grooming process was... I actually said perv. There you go. That had been going on in earnest for a long time. We're hearing stories about back rubs, shoulder rubs, holding hands, being alone in the room consistently with him. A back rub?

Whoa. A back rub? He's giving this little girl back rubs in the classroom? We're getting reports of those kinds of things, and actually that particular allegation was in the cafeteria more than once. That's making me even madder at the Moran County school system than I already was. It would be a cold day in H-E-double-L that some male teacher gave my daughter a backrub. Uh-uh.

Mm-mm. He'd get a knuckle sandwich, no mayo, and a heartbeat from me. All right. Back rubs in the cafeteria, alone in the classroom. That's even caught in a picture, by the way. Now, what were you saying before I went off? Well, what we're learning, and I hope and pray that as we dig into this, that some of this is not true. But this is what the consistent theme that we're hearing is that he was in the nature of a counselor to her.

And this is a guy with an associate's degree who's a respiratory therapist who really, he's not even a teacher. You called him a teacher in your opening. He's not a teacher. He was teaching, but he's not a teacher, at least not a teacher in your opening he's not a teacher he was teaching but he's not a teacher at least not a teacher in the traditional sense wait a minute wait a minute i didn't think you could teach in the public i mean i taught while i was waiting a student taught while i was waiting to get into law school english and uh i didn't think you could actually teach in the public school system unless you had your four-year degree. Am I wrong about that? Well, as my understanding of what Tennessee

law has done, they've allowed, they've softened the rules to allow for people that have legitimate skills to go in and teach. For example, a medical doctor could teach science, right? You or I, as people with law degrees, could teach a government class or something like that. Now, that's my understanding of what the law is designed to do. In this case, he was able to teach. And while I don't know his complete background yet because I don't trust his resume and we're having to vet that.

Did he put CIA operative on the resume? He did not. I mean, that was apparently he readily spoke to his students about those kinds of insane things. And he obviously had this young girl believing these things, believing that he was a millionaire, believing that that he was this special forces guy. It's just insane. But that shows you the level of control that he had over her. She had a special seat, allegedly, according to sources we have, next to his desk. Now, this wasn't because she needed discipline. This was because she was a special student, which he described in the report from the school as his best friend. He also told other students that he was a father figure to her.

He used this abusive home angle to further persuade her to rely on him as a therapist. She was allowed to leave class and go to him is what we understood. And we're trying to confirm that. But these are, you know, that's the level. Think about this. Mother abused these children. She's out of the picture and has been out of the picture. He's still using that for his, quote, therapeutic reasons to help this child. All the while, he's still using that for his, quote, therapeutic reasons to help this child, all the while he's just preying on her. It's a sick picture. Yeah, I'm just amazed that, and again, the fact that he kidnapped her is not the school system's fault, but all the warning signs were there,

the kissing, the back massages, the special seat, the mentoring, all that. And I imagine that there's more. Those were red flags that they should have caught. Another issue is you said, and I'm coming back to this question because I got crazy for a minute when you were describing it. But you said there had been a long pattern of grooming her. And you referred to back massages. And what else were you saying that you've learned about? We've talked to students who said that they've been seen holding hands,

that he would insist to sit beside her if it was in a group setting, that this was open and obvious. Of course, the back or shoulder rubs were seen on more than one occasion. She was in his classroom alone on a routine basis. We've even had one student tell us that there's a hospital bed there for demonstrative purposes where the child was found by that child asleep on that bed one morning, walked in, there's the child and him alone, and she's asleep on that bed. I mean walked in, there's the child and him alone, and she's asleep on that bed. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that we're hearing. Of course, the children are getting more and more afraid to speak. The teachers are afraid. And listen,

I'm a fan of our teachers. They've got a very tough job, and they're in a tough position. So I don't want the impression that I'm throwing our teachers under the bus. What we're investigating here and extremely concerned about is just an atmosphere that was created that allowed the grooming to take place and how, why he was ever in this place to begin with. Look, I have to check myself, Nancy, because you know, I view this as a lawyer, you know, we're to be objective and try to help our clients be as objective as possible. But then I find myself at times almost getting conflicted because as a father, I'm a father of five with three daughters, I put myself in the shoes of my client. And when I then review the facts, I become outraged. And so, you know, while I love our school system and I support our teachers, I have teachers in my family. They're wonderful people and they're dedicated people. And nothing I'm saying is meant to besmirch them. In fact, I went to that school, Nancy.

That's where I graduated. I love that school. Hey, you know what, Jason Watley, this is not about them. This is about him, Tad Cummings. And, you know, when you know somebody and you trust somebody or grown up with somebody or you won't go to the school, it's hard to believe. And even with them, they knew Tad Cummings. And I'm sure that they saw him through a filter of, he's a great guy.

And they would never have believed he would do anything like this. And I've had that happen to me, you know, when I would, I will never forget, I got very close to three particular APD police officers because we worked a vice case together, a child prostitute ring I was trying to crack. We were together every day. With my job, I would be hardly ever in the office. I'd be on the street or in the courtroom all the time. We worked this case for three months, thick and thin, day after day. And we got the conviction. We busted the child prostitution ring. Well, about six months later, I'm minding my own business, Jason,

and I look up on the screen, and there is, you know, in the federal court, they don't allow pictures. There was a sketch of three guys. I'm like, wow, that looks a lot like so-and-so. Well, it was. These three vice cops had been raiding dopers' houses, arresting them, and stealing all their money and jewelry. Okay? And they had been doing it for so long that the feds had actually set up a sting and got them on video for Pete's sake. I knew nothing.

I trusted them completely. I had spent months with them day in, day out, and that was the filter through which I saw them, and it was hard for me to believe they had done it. I had to see the video myself. I hear you. I want to pause briefly to thank our sponsor today, CrimeCon. It is a nationwide gathering of crime busters and crime sleuths, amateur and professional. It goes down June 9, Friday through June 11, Sunday, Indianapolis. I'm going to be there. Joining me are the best of the best. F. Lee Bailey will be joining us, the famed orator of the OJ Simpson defense, Cheryl McCollum from the Cold Case Institute, Ken Kratz from the Stephen Avery prosecution. We're all gathering together for

a weekend of crime fighting and the very latest. Alan and I will be there podcasting live and we hope you join us and join our podcast with all your thoughts and questions on crimes and crime fighting. It's in Indianapolis. Go to crimeonline.com or crimecon.com and use this code NANCY for 20% off. In fact, I was telling Alan earlier, I've got to re-register so I can get my 20% discount. CrimeCon, June 9, Indianapolis. And CrimeCon, thank you for sponsoring our podcast today so we can shed light on the kidnapping of Elizabeth Thomas. Now, where are they, Jason?

What's happening within the family? What happened with this mother, Where are they, Jason? What's happening within the family? What happened with this mother, the one that is currently facing charges? She mistreated, abused Elizabeth. Why is she jumping up now, a day late and a dollar short, talking about Elizabeth come home? That'll be a cold day, and you know where Elizabeth will come home for more abuse from the mom. According to those charges, she has not been convicted yet. Well, she hasn't been convicted, but a court found by clear and convincing evidence, a juvenile court, that she did these things and that's why she's cut off. So let's be clear with that. I mean, so that's a high standard, as you know, it's much higher than preponderance of the evidence. So that was already

found to be the case. And these children are terrified of her. She has wrecked their lives in many respects. And my client, who's a guy that was, I'm just going to be transparent, gone a lot because he was the breadwinner. He worked in Nashville. He had to commute. What does he do? He didn't know these things were going on.

He's in the pest control business. He's just a blue-collar guy, Nancy. That's all he is. He's a blue-collar guy. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Don't be saying that's all he is. My father worked for the railroad for 43 years and put all of us through college and grad school along with my mother. And, I mean, I kind of really, I don't like people saying just blue collar because I've never known a finer man.

Now, you said he's a, what does he do? He's in the pest control business. Man, that's a hard way to make a living. You're out on the street. You're traveling all day, every day, going into people's houses. That's not easy. No, not at all. And he's struggling, Nancy. you know, even physically. I

mean, his blood pressure has been so high that his doctor has told him to just be, to rest and not do interviews. His heart rate's been up. I mean, it has been extremely difficult on him. He is, he's a unique man because his exterior, when you see him in some of these interviews, he seems to be sort of his demeanor and affect seems to be consistent. He is very much struggling physically, emotionally, of course. I mean, you really don't have in these situations a place to put all of the emotions that you have when your child is taken. I mean, because it's unprecedented, you know, in his life. Well, a lot of people don't believe that, Jason. But I know that, you know, I've been through it

all. It had been being a crime victim, prosecuting felonies for 10 years, you name it. But when I lost my father last year, I've always had extremely low blood pressure and a heart rate of around 60. My blood pressure shot up like I had no idea what was happening. And all of a sudden, out of the blue, started getting migraines, bad ones. And I never had those health issues ever until my dad passed away. So I always thought things like that were psychosomatic. It's not. What's happening around you can really affect your health, your body.

Yeah, stress is a bit, yeah, you're right. Let me ask you, how did the whole thing get, how did cummins do it now that day that she was taken i understand in in retrospect the children were not going to school it was a teacher development day or something that's correct yeah yeah the school was out that day and so she was going to spend uh a day with a friend and and so uh so and and father for his part, after the kissing incident came to light, which by the way, he learned a week late, but, but after, after that came to light, he was especially vigilant in vetting where she would go, who she would be with, talking to the parents, monitoring her phone. You know, he was doing what a good parent would do.

And and, of course, you know, the rest is history. I mean, he obviously didn't know that this was going to take place. And so we have lots of questions about about what what was going on. And of course, there's a young lady that we had no reason to believe was in on this. She was just the young lady that dropped her off. And I've talked to her. Law enforcement's talked to her. And clearly, Elizabeth had a plan. We think that it was clear she had a plan to meet him. What's unclear, frankly, is what her plan was that evening. Because as you know, we've heard conflicting news about what she intended in terms of coming home that evening. She told her sister, call the police if I'm not home.

And she did that emphatically. And I don't have any doubt that she said those words. But obviously, she was with Tad Cummins secretly. So the question is, what did she actually intend? Did she intend to leave and stay away? Did she intend to come back? Was she herself conflicted? Didn't know what she wanted to do? Was it Tad that convinced her to do that? Was she sort of on the fence? We don't know the answers to those questions. We pray to God that we get her back so we can find the answers to those questions.

Well, I've been thinking about it a lot, and I learned yesterday that she left a packed bag of clothes and things at the Shoney's restaurant the morning she then left with Tad Cummings, I don't have anything with me. I can't go. I mean, going away for a day for a lark, you know, sneaking out, going to movies, going for a hike, things like that, and then coming home, that's one thing. But leaving and never talking to your dad or your sisters and brothers again, that's a whole nother can of worms. So I really think she left that bag at Shoney's so he couldn't say, great, you've got your bag, you've got clothes, let's go. I think she didn't take it. I'm guessing that was the bag left over from the night before where she stayed at her friend's.

Well, now, hey, now, let me be, I'm looking at my, just so you know what I'm doing, I'm looking at my staff who's here just to clarify. Our understanding, at least, and you may have some information, we don't, is that she had two bags with her. She left the house with two bags, and she had those bags when she was dropped off. Okay, all right, that's news to me. Francie Abbott, who's my associate, is in here. Francie, step up here to the phone here. Hi, Francie.

Yeah, the DA told me that yesterday, that the Shoney's employees found a bag that she left behind, and I think she left it behind because she did not want to be gone for this long period of time. She didn't want to. I mean, you don't take two bags of the Shoney's and you've got them in your booth where you're having your hot fudge sundae or your strawberry pie, and then you leave one and take the other one. I think she left it so

she would not have her clothes. I agree with you, Nancy. If that's the case, that adds a whole another level to this in terms of just trying to figure out what was happening i will say that we have talked to persons who students i'm just going to say it that have confided in us that for the weeks leading up to the disappearance and even for a couple of months that uh certainly post of the kissing incident revelation that she was wanting to get away because of the ridicule she was receiving. And that's very disturbing to us that she was feeling that way and confided to friends about that.

What kind of ridicule? Ridicule for what? She's beautiful. Ridicule for being a slut, whore, et cetera. But why would somebody say that about her? Because of Tad Cummins? This was after the fact. See, what you have to understand is that Tad Cummins was such a beloved, quote unquote, teacher that the students were allowed to call him by his first name.

And he encouraged that, apparently. And so what now the picture we're getting now and I don't obviously I'm not immersed in the school, but the picture we're getting from these students is that there there began to be a lot of students who took the side of Tad Cummins in the alleged kissing incident. And the cryptic, strange response was to ridicule her for being a slut and a whore and this and that. And those are the kind of words. Those are the exact words that we were told that were used. And unfortunately, they're allegedly, this is all allegations that we haven't confirmed, but there were also similar statements, according to these sources, overheard from some teachers talking about the incident where words along those lines were used. I hope and pray that's not the case.

Oh, yeah, that's already been reported, that the teachers were speaking about the little girl in derogatory manners like tramp. Let's be clear. We don't know which teachers, and obviously we haven't confirmed, and I know a lot of these teachers, and I pray that's not true. That is the report that's coming out, and the report is also that Elizabeth heard some of these teachers, and I pray that's not true. That is the report that's coming out. And the report is also that Elizabeth heard some of these comments. I will tell you that our firm knew the comments, there were discussions at least, that were happening about the kissing

incident that were affecting the child. We actually contacted the school central office. That just gets me so upset. Yeah, we contacted the central office and said, cut it out, you know, make sure that nobody talks about this because it's affecting the child. So we knew that was a problem way before she left. Now, again, we didn't know firsthand of the nature of what was being said. That's coming from students. Well, I guess they're all eating a dirt sandwich this morning because now it's clear who is the mastermind behind all of this. Everybody with me is a special guest.

It's Jason Watley, who is representing Elizabeth Thomas' dad, Anthony. Also with him is his law partner, Corey. Corey represented Mr. Thomas earlier when the mom's parental rights were under scrutiny after alleged mistreatment. Okay, so this is what I'm hearing, that after Tad Cummins is caught kissing the little girl in class, everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people blame the little girl and start calling her slut, tramp, whore. And she hears it, of course, and is destroyed by this and wants to get away. And all of this has been created by Tad Cummings.

It's this perfect storm for him, and he uses that to, quote, take her away, after he's the one that created the problem to start with. Yeah, yeah. Think about the irony here. He creates the situation, and then he serves as the savior to take her away. I mean, it's mind-boggling to think that it could work that way, but that's exactly what happened. Well, it makes me also think that she may have wanted to get away from the school situation, but I find it really hard to believe

she wanted to cut off contact with all her brothers and sisters and her father, who she apparently loves very much. And he works like a dog to support the whole bunch. Yeah, I'll be very clear about that. We don't believe for a second that she intended to abandon her family the manner in which it's happened. We think that he has control over her. Even if we had a recording of the encounter at Shoney's before they left and it seemed as though she was willingly going, he has overcome her ability to say no at this point. He is a master manipulator. There was a report yesterday by another person that's in the medical field that knew him and worked with him that he is a narcissist, that he would diagnose him as such. So this is a man that's a dangerous man that knew exactly what he was doing. He preyed on her from the very beginning.

The reports we're having is that from the beginning, from literally going back to early in the fall semester, that he had targeted her and that he had become her savior of sorts, enough that he would declare that he was a father figure. I mean, if you think about that, yeah, there are plenty of benign situations where a person could become a father figure as a teacher. And that can be a really good thing in certain situations. But it's not when you're a sexual predator. And that's what happened here, the father figure. What does the little girl that dropped her off at Shoney's say?

About which part, Nancy? Yeah, about what Elizabeth intended. That she intended to go visit a friend for the day. Visit a friend for the day. Yes. For the day. Visit a friend for the day? Yes. For the day. Did she just take her backpack or did she just have her clothes from the night before? What did she have with her? She had at least a bag. And now it's unclear to me whether there were two. The little girl that

took her did not see anything out of the ordinary in terms of the bags. It wasn't as if she was carrying a giant Samsonite suitcase or something like that. So that's not what was going on. And so there was nothing that struck her as alarming about that, according to what she's saying. I find that a little cryptic, though, because if these two little girls are good friends, if my friend said, I'm going to go spend the day with a friend,

I'd say, who? Just, you know, just natural conversation. I tend to agree. I tend to agree that I'm going to go spend the day with a friend, I'd say, hey, just, you know, just natural conversation. I tend to agree. I tend to agree. There's a I'm concerned, especially in light of the fact that there was knowledge that she wanted to get away, was wanting to leave the area, had even discussed about leaving with Tad Cummins. But I mean, right.

I mean, obviously, you know, these these children that are friends and in the middle of this, you know, I think they're all sort of reeling, probably even scared about what to say and who to say it to. Where do you think they are, Jason? Where do you think they've gone? Mexico? You know, Nancy, one of the reports we got is that Tad Cummins bragged in class to his students, this is how crazy he was, that he had a place in Honduras that he would go to when things got bad in Colombia, quote unquote. He was sort of a self-proclaimed survivalist, even though I doubt very seriously he had any of those skills or the wherewithal to get to Honduras. I doubt he even has a passport. But that's what he portrayed himself as.

What? A place, a hideout in Honduras when things got too bad in Colombia? What? Yeah, he's an idiot, and he made those statements. But the child believed them. We have one report from one child that she had actually declared that she has a way to get out of the country. I mean, I don't believe that Tad does or did, but I do believe that he told Elizabeth that because she believed basically whatever he said, apparently. And he convinced a lot of students of that. He apparently is a very masterful manipulator.

When he's caught, I would encourage you to have him on your show and find out how his Einstein-like manipulating brain works so you can figure out how he convinced all these impressionable youth that he was in the CIA and whatnot. I'm saying that tongue in cheek, of course. You know, I'm just wondering, what do you make of that Corpus Christi alleged sighting? You know, I've read about it. I just don't know. I mean, you know, right now, I would tell you that, you know, obviously the family is not headed down to Corpus Christi right now. So I don't know what the veracity of that is. We hope and pray that

it's legit, but we just don't know. And we trust the TBI and the FBI, local law enforcement. Marcus Albright is a personal friend of mine, and he's the lead detective locally. They're all great people, and we trust that they're following up all of these leads as they should be followed up. Obviously, I'm from Texas originally. He's from Texas? No, I'm from, I just said that as a plug to the state where I grew up. I was born and raised in Texas. And I'm confident that down there that if they think they've got a kidnapper, they're going to hunt him down. Okay, let me ask you this.

She has a cell phone. It was pinged, we believe, in Decatur, Alabama. Yeah. The day she goes missing. And nothing since. Do you think she's going to try and contact her family? Oh, wow. Well, I mean, yes. I mean, my personal belief is that there will come a point, if it hadn't come already, that Elizabeth realizes that this isn't any fun and it's not very glamorous, that he's not a millionaire, that he's not a former FBI agent or special forces or whatever. And that's going to come to light when they can't afford dinner. and as that happens, I think she's going to want to go home and she's going to try harder and harder to contact home. That's what I think

is going to happen. Now, what's scary for us is as that happens, Tad Cummins becomes more desperate. He's an armed man. He's obviously demented. And so to think about having your daughter in the hands of a demented, armed man who's now becoming desperate because he's running out of money. I mean, that's the concern we have or one of the concerns we have. You know, there are all sorts of articles written and analysis done on the American dollar versus the Mexican dollar, Mexican exchange, if he did make it to Mexico, they could live for a long time off nearly five grand. Well, of course, five grand is just what he got. He got forty five hundred for the car. We don't know what additional cash he might have had.

And no one knew them, just to be clear, as a wealthy family. But, you know, he could have amassed easily a lot more cash than that. So we don't know how much cash he had. Where does the wife, Jill Cummins, fit into all this? I mean, is she being cooperative? Have they looked at his bank accounts to see? By all accounts, according to law enforcement, she's been fully cooperative, and she's been very helpful. And I have no information to contradict that.

That's what the TBI is saying. What does the dad think? What does Anthony Thomas think? Well, about her involvement or what? About where they are. I mean, to me, her involvement, she's a child. Anything she did doesn't matter because she's not of the age of consent. And whatever she did do is because she was manipulated. But I mean, where does he think they are? He has to fight off feelings of becoming despondent by dwelling on worst case scenario. And he has to hope for the best. And so

what he, what he hopes is that she's healthy, that this is sort of a fanciful thing that she went off, Tad's going to come to his senses, put her on a bus and she's coming home or, you know, drop her off at a police station. And if he's listening to this, please do that, Tad. But, you know, drop her off at a police station. And if he's listening to this, please do that, Tad. But, you know, that's what he thinks or wants, hopes, obviously, is going to happen. As far as what he actually thinks is happening, listen, the other day, he was being interviewed by the Today Show, and I was there when they found out that from the TBI that he had been Googling teen marriage. They revealed that to him in a question, and we didn't know that. Let me tell you, he had a come apart, as any father would.

So if you're asking where he is and what his thoughts are, I think that was a great peeling back of just what's really going on inside of Anthony Thomas is when when they announced. And of course, we all sort of think these things. But in Living Color, they announced that he was Googling teen marriage. You know, the gloves are off at that point. Everybody knows what's going on. And it really, really just just to hit him to the core. And they had to reshoot that question because he got up. He just couldn't take it. And, you know, that's the kind of thing that a father, when you hear that,

I don't have to describe to you what an average parent's response would be to that kind of revelation. I mean, I think you already know. Listen, I've covered so many stories, Jason, that sometimes during the day I have to go get in my car and drive by the children's school to make sure it's not in lockdown for some reason. I hear it. I hear what you're saying.

I'm just sick about it. I'm thinking about his Nissan Rogue. Do you know if he had Sirius XM in there? No, I don't know that at all. I know that's a crazy off-the-wall question, but you know, that can be car tapped if they have Sirius, if he's got OnStar, if he's got anything like that. And I wonder if that's being done. Nancy, my personal belief is that Nissan Rogue's long gone. I mean, this guy was Googling how to get off the grid. He's a self-proclaimed survivalist. He dumped that car somewhere because everybody's looking

for a silver Nissan Rogue. And I know there's a lot of them, but there's not that many of them. And so I think he took his 4500, that car's encumbered. He gets rid of that car. I think he sold the car. I think he sold it somewhere, took the plates off, and sold it somewhere. And somewhere it's on some used car lot or it's abandoned somewhere. Yeah. I mean, or he could have taken $1,000, put it down on one of these buy-here-pay-here car lots or a Craigslist car. There could have been any number of ways that he could have gotten a vehicle.

And so I don't know that we have any idea what vehicle that they're in right now. Yeah. The reason I'm asking is this. It would at least give me a direction. If I knew where the car was last, I would at least know where they're headed. You know, like the Decatur, Alabama was a little bit of a hint which way they were headed, but not much. But I gave it something, you know, and if I knew where he dumped the car, that would at least give me a direction.

Well, you know, here's my thought. Those of us who live in southern Middleton Sea, when we think of the I-65 corridor that goes through Decatur, you generally think of one thing, and that's going to the ocean and going to Florida. Panhandle. That's what we've been saying from the get-go. Yeah, it's about seven hours away. That was my thinking. My dad grew up on the Panhandle. I spent a lot of time down there.

And if you keep going, you know he could disappear. People disappear in Florida all the time. They go down there and they live transiently and they're really off the grid. You know, you've got the Everglades. Oh, yeah. You have just a lot of expanse of undeveloped land. He could easily be down there.

Yeah. But then this Corpus Christi sighting kind of threw off my theory. And, of course, you know, I wonder, does some of that information come out? Is it coming out on purpose? In other words, you know, I don't know. In other words, does the TBI or the FBI sort of let out that, oh, here he is when maybe he's not there, you know, on purpose? I know that sounds counterintuitive, but, you know, in their strategy of trying to find this guy, they may very well be giving a few false leads.

Well, you know, he's watching, you You know he's watching TV and listening to everything and reading the reports. Yeah. Do you know if Elizabeth had an iPad with her, an iPad? We do not know that. And if we, yeah, we don't know that. You know, the thing is, though, if she did, he's savvy enough to tell her if she turns it on or the cell phone on, they'll be nabbed.

So I'm sure he's already told her that. Okay. I'm sure that's what happened with the ping indicator is that, you know, they figured out you better turn off the cell phone, don't do that, whatever, and then they didn't make that mistake again. Okay, guys. Jason, I have taken so much of your time, and I want to hear your final thoughts.

What you want the public to know and what you want Tad Cummins to know and as you are representing Elizabeth's dad Anthony what you want Elizabeth to know is there a message to her from her dad the first I'd answer the first question or the last question first, which is her father, Anthony, as well as her family, loves her dearly and completely unconditionally and wants her home. There is no judgment. There's nothing other than the love for their daughter and sister that they want her home and safe. And that is it. Number two, to the public, we would say this, this is an abduction. This isn't some willful, there is no willfulness here. This is a 15 year old girl and a 50 year old predator. That's what this is. And so we want the public to understand that. So this discussion that we see out there on, you know, social media comments and whatnot, there's simply no willfulness here. In fact,

this man brainwashed her. And to Tad Cummins, I would say this. If you're listening, it's going to go a lot better for you if you would simply do the right thing and let her go safely, put her in a safe place, get her to the authorities. In terms of going after him, my view is this, the family's view is this, we just want the child back. We don't really care what happens to Tad Cummins at this point. We'll leave that to other people. Again, thank you to our sponsor, CrimeCon, for supporting our podcast today, making it possible in our efforts to bring Elizabeth Thomas home safely and bring Tad

Cummings to justice. CrimeCon goes down June 9 through June 11. Go to CrimeCon.com. Use the code Nancy for another 20% off. CrimeCon, thank you for making today possible. Our prayers and thoughts go on for the safe return of Elizabeth Thomas. I want to thank Jason Watley and your partner, your law partner, and all of your staff that have gathered together to be with us today. We are praying every day. At night, I wake up and I think about Elizabeth. I wonder what's happening to her right now. I worry about her. I worry about this thing going even more sideways, where he becomes even more irrational, and they both end up dead somehow.

I just am really praying for her safety and that she comes home and for her father and her family. Jason Watley, Corey, thank you so much for being with us. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.