Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Exclusive: Nancy Grace talks to lawyer who filed sex assault lawsuits against Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein & director Brian Singer

Episode Date: December 12, 2017

Jeff Herman is a lawyer known for filing controversial sex assault lawsuits. His latest include two lawsuits against Hollywood super-producer Harvey Weinstein and another against X-Men director Brian Singer. Herman discusses these cases with Nancy Grace in this Crime Stories episode. Grace also questions Herman about a rape accusation filed against him two decades ago that is only now surfacing. Los Angeles psycho analyst Dr. Bethany Marshall and RadarOnline.com reporter Alexis Tereszcuk join Grace and Herman in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. hours of tech support. Circle with Disney found a better way. This awesome little device designed for families manages content and time online for all the devices in your home. Easy to set up. You can filter content, set time limits, even set a bedtime. Each person can have their own setting. This way your children don't end up in scary internet territory, but mom and dad can still use the internet to get their work done. Use code Nancy at circlewithnancy.com. Get $10 off your Circle and free shipping. Circlewithnancy.com. Offer code Nancy. Thank you, Circle, for protecting our children. The man behind them? Legendary Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein. Eight women, including actress Ashley Judd, came forward to accuse Weinstein of sexual misconduct. The Times uncovered sexual harassment allegations that span almost three decades.

I'm a famous guy. I'm feeling very comfortable right now. Please come in now. And one minute. And if you want to leave when the guy comes with my jacket. Why do you touch my priest? Oh, please. I'm sorry. Just come on. I'm used to that. You're used to that? Yes. Come in. He just is very dominant, persuasive, does not back down if you say no. He's like touching me, rubbing me, and he said, just relax. And I'm telling him to stop, and he would raise his voice, but at the same time, he kept reassuring me that everything's going to be okay.

It hit like a bomb. You know, it's funny. I prosecuted, funny odd, by the way, not funny, ha ha funny. I prosecuted rape, sodomies, ag assaults with intent to rape, all sorts of sex assaults for years and years and years and years, representing women at the Battered Women's Center in court. It just goes on and on and on. The claims against women and children, the most vulnerable in our society. But it took Harvey Weinstein to bring it to the forefront for everyone to actually talk about sex assault. Nobody wants to hear the word rape, and I don't blame them. But now, because of Harvey Weinstein, it's part of everyone's everyday vernacular. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us and with me now. The man who is taking on Harvey Weinstein, representing two of the women that claim he assaulted them. Jeff Herman is with me, plaintiff's lawyer in the Harvey Weinstein and Bryan Singer sex assault lawsuits. That takes a lot of guts. Let me tell you something. It's hard to go against somebody rich and powerful and famous. Believe you me, I've done it and I still suffer the repercussions from it to this very day.

First to Alexis Tereschuk. Before we hear Jeff Herman's take on this, Alexis Tereschuk, RadarOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, how many women are now claiming Weinstein either harassed them, came on to them, touched them, or outright raped them. This is a sickening number, Nancy. It is almost 100 women. Holy moly. The last time I asked you that, you were around 30, I think. 100 women. And you know, the other day, it was, her name's on the tip of my tongue, Alexis. She said she was responding to something Meryl Streep had said about Harvey Weinstein's actions being disrespectful.

And she said, disrespectful? It's rape. It's rape. That's a crime. The other day I was on Dr. Oz, who I love, by the way, on one of his crime shows. And he had on Alexis Teres Chuck, a spinner, in other words, a PR guru who is describing how he helps men like Weinstein come up with a press statement and map out their behavior in the press after they're accused of a heinous crime. Halfway through, I just couldn't contain myself. Every woman in the audience was looking at me. Can't you say something? And I said, wait a minute. Am I

the crazy one here? Because why are we talking about what these guys are going to say when we should be talking about the women who are rape victims? Who cares what they're going to say at the press? Alexis, how did it get to be 100? Help me. I think that people have been so snowed by these men for so many years. And as a reporter, I have to include the statements from the people that are accused. It's what we have to do in our job. And so the fact that you fought back against that man is really interesting. And it was Rose McGowan who has been calling out Harvey Weinstein's people. Yes, Rose McGowan. Yep, she has. She is not a lone voice in the wilderness, although she may have been one of the first. Before I go to Dr. Bethany Marshall, LA psychoanalyst, I want to go to Jeff Herman, the man who is taking on Harvey Weinstein and in the Bryan Singer sex assault

case as well. Jeff Herman, I want to first talk about the Harvey Weinstein case. Jeff, you know you're jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, right? Because, you know, as much as we all suspect he did this, I mean, could 100 women be wrong? And if one of them, one of them is telling the truth about rape, you know, in some jurisdictions, you can still go to jail for life for rape, Jeff. Yes. You know that. You're a lawyer. Yes. about rape, you know, in some jurisdictions, you can still go to jail for life for rape, Jeff. Yes.

You know that. You're a lawyer. Yeah. So long story short, it doesn't matter if he's guilty to some people. He's rich and he's powerful. Okay. Tell me the whole thing, Jeff Herman. Start at the beginning.

Sure. How did you first decide you would take on Harvey Weinstein in civil court since apparently police are doing nothing? Right. So the first case that I took on was for Dominique Hewitt, which is a young, aspiring actress who, when she tells her story, it's very interesting because she's one of the victims who, like many of these, are what we call complying victims. They're adult women who end up being lured into his hotel room. What she alleges is that she's thinking it's a business meeting. And then he comes out in a bathrobe, naked underneath, and starts to touch her and persists until the point where she relents. Now, in that case— Okay, wait a minute.

Just give the women on the panel, that would be Alexis, Bethany, and myself, just a moment ago. Oh, oh, oh. Just imagining him coming out of a bathroom in a bathrobe with nothing underneath. And pause, Jeff. Dr. Bethany, I have been in so many hotel rooms and strip clubs

and crack houses and brothels, which is a nice way to put it, and housing projects and flop houses and burned out houses so many times investigating cases. I remember for the longest time I'd make my investigator go into the strip club and bring the person out because I would not have it said that Nancy Grace was in a strip club. OK, so they'd have to come out in the parking lot and talk to me. They'd go in and get him with his badge. OK, so I did not want to be in any way in a strip club okay crack house fine strip club no okay so i don't know what was going on in my head but

you know to say jeff herman just said complying victims okay i'll take it up with jeff in a moment but i don't like complying i don't like complying. I don't like complying either. Because why shouldn't a woman go anywhere? Why do you have to feel afraid to go in a room with a man or get in a van or go on a date or go jogging? I mean, we're basically screwed no matter what we do. Okay, that's the lay of the land right here. And I don't think I'm complying with anything by living my life. Well, the very language itself, compliant victim, gets to the heart of why more women don't come forward or sex assault victims in general. I will never forget the first time I ever studied sexual abuse many years ago. My professor said to me, I want to tell you students something that's going to sound wrong and sound unpopular. But until you understand this, you will never understand the plight of the victim. to me, I want to tell you students something that's going to sound wrong and sound unpopular, but until you understand this, you will never understand the plight of the victim. He said,

every victim wants something. A child wants to be loved. All right. In this case, maybe these women wanted a role, but just because the victim wants something doesn't mean that they were not victimized. And sometimes the victim even gets gratification. A child can be made to be aroused in the service of trying to get the love of the parent. An actress can be seduced into thinking that if she complies, she'll get the role. But that doesn't mean that the assault is not an assault. Because the victim wants something, that is what creates the guilt. Guilt then creates shame. Shame makes them repress the entire incident and discourages them from going forward. That's why compliant victim is just not a good phrase to use. Okay, hold on, Jeff Herman. Now, you started all this. You've only managed to get one sentence out, but you're on a panel of women, okay? I don't know what you thought was going to

happen here, but back to you, Jeff Herman. You're the guy who's representing these women and taking on Harvey Weinstein, but Alexis and Bethany and I will totally get on your case, okay? So can you not say compliant victim? You're a great lawyer. You come up with a different word, or hoodwinked victim. Actually, the reason I use the word compliant is because it explains why it's so difficult to come forward. Because there is a self-blame. They think they've done something wrong. And I'm not saying a compliant victim means they're not victimized. What I'm saying is it's a term that explains the complexity of what goes on in a victim's mind and how the perpetrator is able to get away with it.

I've got to think of a better word. Alexis and Bethany, think on that for a moment. I want to get back to Jeff Herman. One of the women he is representing in their cases against, Harvey Weinstein, and I don't want to hear a word about, oh, they want money. What choice do they have since the police are not filing criminal complaints? You know, if they're lying, it'll come out on cross-examination. I don't think that they are.

But I want to go to the first one that Jeff Herman has described. He's representing it. It's Dominique Hewitt. Jeff Herman, tell me how you met her, how you analyzed her demeanor, and what you've learned about her case before we move to the next alleged victim. Dominique reached out to me and wanted to tell her story. She wasn't sure what she could do, whether there was any action she could take. And she, in our first conversations, talked about, well, she felt that maybe, you know,

she could have run out of the room. Maybe she did something wrong. And then we talked about that and she began to understand sort of the pressure she was in and how, when she was in that room, her mind sort of frozen and she went into what some people call this tonic immobility, which is like, what did you say? The what? Tonic immobility. Tonic immobility. I immobility i've never heard that what is that it's a it's like the the freeze state when when a person's in their stress response they

freeze and as much as they may want to scream and run out of the room they can't they feel paralyzed um and that's very confusing to a victim i get a lot of cases for women who are assaulted in this getting a massage. And afterwards, they question themselves, well, why didn't I run? Why didn't I scream? And the answer is they couldn't. Their minds would not let them because they are sort of playing dead as a defense mechanism. Hold on just a moment.

I want to go through this particular victim's claim, or should i say alleged victim alexis teres chuck give me in a nutshell what happened with jeff herman's client dominique hewitt she like many other women in hollywood agreed to take a meeting with harvey weinstein at the peninsula hotel this is back in 2010 and she went to the meeting which i i know it seems weird to people that have all of their business meetings, you know, at work in a conference room. But this is what the way that Harvey Weinstein has been conducting his meetings for 30 years. That's not uncommon. When I'm in New York, and we're not going to an office, I meet somebody for coffee. Okay, I meet somebody for lunch. And it's been many times I mean Alexis my EP on HLN and I would just during during Tot Mom okay during Tot Mom I was so tired I was up every morning around four o'clock and would work

till about 11 o'clock at night and my EP executive producer Dean who had been with me since Larry King he had gotten all the staff a hotel right beside the courthouse. And I said, Dean, I'm going to pass out. I got to go lay down just for 30 minutes. So, so I go to Dean's room. I don't have a room there because I'm with my children, you know, 30 minutes away. So I go in his room and he orders, of course, as was his custom, like all kinds of stuff on room service for him to eat. Okay. And I threw myself down on the bed. He put on a sweatsuit and was on the sofa eating. And I was passed out sleeping for 30 minutes on the bed before I went back to the courthouse. Well, lo and behold, Alexis, all of a sudden I said, I'm just going to check my Blackberry.

It was the Blackberry then. And I looked and I, one minute, we think there's a verdict. I jumped up. I could hardly even think because I had dozed off for like 10 minutes. I ran out the door. I didn't even look in the mirror. And I yelled back, Dean, put your pants on and get to the courthouse. And I ran down the hall to the elevator.

And all these people were just looking at me. OK. And I just got on and just walked out. I mean, I don't know what they thought. And all these people were just looking at me. Okay. And I just got on and just walked out. I mean, I don't know what they thought. But, you know, the thought of it to some people, it might sound crazy. But it's not crazy. It's not.

That's the way it is when you're both away from your office or like this woman didn't have an office. And Weinstein's out of town. And he's meeting her. So it's not unusual, Alexis. I'm sorry. Go ahead. So she shows up to his hotel room and he's wearing a robe and there's nothing underneath it, which I think Dean had clothes on when y'all had when you were in his hotel room. Dean always had clothes on.

I have never seen clothes on. Go ahead. I'm sure his wife and my husband will be very happy to hear that. Go ahead. So he grabs her and he starts molesting her. And this is exactly what all of the other victims have said. They said that they show up. He's in a robe. You know, he's this huge guy.

And so he's physically, not only is he physically intimidating, he is the most powerful man in Hollywood. He has made careers of so many people so everybody wants to work and destroy careers if you believe ashley judd who i happen to love the entire judd family including her um so when you say he molested her what okay alexis sorry but this is nancy grace crime stories you don't get off with sugarcoating it what does she say happened? She said he grabbed her under his clothes. He grabbed her breasts, and he started fondling her, and she was terrified. Well, there you go.

Jeff Herman, the lawyer who is taking on Harvey Weinstein in two of these cases, does that jive with what she's told you? Well, yeah. I mean, he starts with the massage and says, she alleges, he says, give me a massage. Come on, let's just, it'll help us calm down and relax. And she resists at first. Wouldn't help me calm down. Right.

And he persists. And eventually she finds herself giving him a massage. And then he kind of rolls over and he starts to masturbate. And he stands up and sort of masturbates in front of her. And then the meeting ends. Jeff Herman, aren't you and Alexis Tereshchuk leaving something out, something called sodomy? Alexis, how did you leave out that little fact?

I did. I left out the fact that he performed oral sex on her because she felt like she had to. Okay, Alexis, Jeff, and Dr. Bethany, let me explain when it's not consensual, it's not oral sex, it's a crime. And this is what Dominique Hewitt just said. Listen to this alleged victim of Harvey Weinstein in her own words. Take us to the moment that you knew you were in trouble with him. Well, I had met him in New York previously, and we had been in touch about an audition for a Quentin Tarantino film. And I had submitted it to L.A., and then I ran back into him later, and that's when I met with him at the Peninsula when I had moved to the West Coast.

So I really didn't know anything about the Peninsula, like if he was staying there. I thought we were meeting at the bar, which we did. And then he told me, okay, we're going to my room now after a few minutes of conversation about movie roles. So then we go up to the suite and I realized he kind of like has a place there and he offers me champagne. And it was very similar to her story that he just is very dominant, persuasive, does not back down if you say no. And kind of just forced me into doing something I didn't want to do. I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable, but, you know, some people hear forced oral sex and they think, how? Right?

Like, did he hold you down? Could you just help us understand that? I feel like it was a coercive thing, just that he wouldn't let it up, that it was just going to happen no matter how hard I refused. And you said no. How did it end? How did you leave the hotel room? It's just that I left after pretty much he was done with whatever he intended to do.

So I just left after. I don't know how to put it, Jeff. Let me ask Jeff, because he's there with you, your lawyer. You filed the first lawsuit against them. And it's not Harvey in particular. It's the Weinstein Company. And I'm wondering, well, first let me ask you, Dominique, did you ever report it to the Weinstein Company or to the board? I did not because I had heard a lot of stories about his behavior in the past.

And I just, you know, I was an actress looking for a break. And he's a gatekeeper. And I felt that he used his position, you know, to try to make me do something that is not in accord with how I usually behave. That was from NBC's Megyn Kelly today. That's where Dominique was speaking. Hold on. We're going to get right back to this, but I've got to thank my partner. And I want to thank my partner who is making today's program possible and allowing us to speak to Jeff Herman, plaintiff's lawyer, who was taking on Harvey Weinstein. First of all, I want to thank Super Beats. You know, nobody thinks about their circulation, but you should because circulation,

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How many times have you met her? Have you looked her in the face and had her tell her story to you so you could gauge her demeanor and veracity or truthfulness? Yes, yes. I met with her and she told her story to me several times. And then my investigators, we go out and we try to verify and confirm every fact, even the little ones, because we find those are really important to be able to verify. And, you know, her story rung true. What do you mean? What did you verify?

What hotel was Harvey Weinstein at when this allegedly happened? The Peninsula Hotel. Wasn't that his typical hangout, Jeff? It was, and she had emails that were documenting the setting up of the meeting. And so there were things we were able to confirm on her story, which are important. Why didn't she go to police? That's going to be a problem at trial that I'm sure you'll be able to handle. Well, as she tells it, she felt guilty and she still she still blamed herself and said, you know, well, why didn't I leave the room? You know, why did I, you know, I'm an adult. Why did I stay there? You know, one of the things

she alleges is that he performed oral sex on her. And so she felt so guilty about that, even though she describes herself freezing. And she said, she said, no, you know, and she said, and how am I, what am I going to do? Take on this powerful man. There's nothing I could do in her mind. And so it wasn't until other victims came forward and there's this sort of collective empowerment that she felt the strength that it would be safe for her to come forward. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I don't want to analyze it to death. You're the high powered superstar psychoanalyst out of L.A. But I've got to tell you something, Bethany. I'm not a shrink like you. I don't have my degree in psychoanalysis, but I know this.

I've never dealt with a single rape victim. Wait, I take that back. I had a couple of rape victims that were at home, in their home, when they were attacked. And I can think of one of them, one rape victim that was more angry than she was anything else. But most rape victims that I have dealt with, almost all of them, always feel like, why didn't I fill in the blank? Why didn't I run? Why didn't I fight back? Why didn't I fight harder? Why was I there? Why did I have a drink? Why didn't I run? Why didn't I fight back? Why didn't I fight harder? Why was I there?

Why did I have a drink? Why didn't I do something? Why did I let myself get into that situation? Why, why, why, why, why? You know, you can why until the cows come home. And for you in LA, what that means is late in the day, that's when the cows come home, Bethany. So what I'm saying is, trust me, Bethany, I understand very well why sex assault victims don't come forward. I think every woman does. Explain it in your terms. Well, first of all, I think the proper use of language, precise language is so important in a case like this. And Nancy, the fact that you're using the term rape instead of sexual assault is critical. You have really, you know, so many shows I've been on with you, you've changed our national dialogue through your language. And I like the fact that you're using the word rape today. And if you could

continue to use it, it would be great because sexual harassment sounds like the cashier at the grocery store asking for your phone number, like an unwanted advance. That's not what this is. This is rape, first of all. Secondly, I don't think I would use the word, was it tonic freezing or something like that? I would use a different word. I would use- Like maybe fear freeze. A fear freeze. I would use the word dissociate, which means you just... Oh, good gravy, Bethany. I said talking regular people talk. It's a fear freeze. Think about it, Jeff Herman. You might want to use that at trial. Fear freeze, not tonic, whatever you said. It makes me think of Mary Poppins when they have to take castor oil. You know, I wouldn't say tonic, whatever that was you said, Jeff. Go ahead, Beth.

But to dissociate means to disconnect from yourself. And I think the other thing is that there's a human drive to please other people and that is an overriding drive that all of us have. Anybody who's What about the implications, Bethany? Look what he allegedly did to Ashley Judd, who I

adore. Look at that. How many other people have had their careers ruined because they spoke out? And believe me, Bethany, I understand not speaking out because you feel you have a bigger mission to accomplish. I get it. I totally get it. I mean, you're thinking, okay, I'll endure this. I'll

get through it. It'll be three minutes, five minutes tops. It'll be over. And then, you know, I can leave this room and I can go about my life and I'll still be able to get a job when I walk out of this hotel. That's probably what they were thinking. And then underestimating the psychological consequences

to themselves, you know, saying, well, I'll get through this. It'll be three minutes, five minutes. And then walking out of there and saying that was a really catastrophic three minutes or five minutes. I think there's an element of shock, too. I mean, you go to the hotel room. His robe is open. I mean, I keep having a visual every time somebody mentions that. I want to get that out of my mind, that visual of Harvey Weinstein with his robe open. When you look at the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, there are five different perversions. There's pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, frauderism, and sadism. And so this was an incredibly perverse, you know, opening up his

robe so the women could see him. He's very much an exhibitionist. I also think of power rapists, you know, there are very specific typologies in terms of sexual offending. And the power rapist is the one who not only wants to have power over the victim, but is sociopathic and attempts to have power over people in every aspect of his life. And Harvey Weinstein definitely falls into that category where he's not just an offender in one area, he's an offender in multiple areas. So I think we're going to see a lot of people who maybe were not sexual abuse victims specifically, but actually harassment victims in the workplace with him. You know, with me, Jeff Herman, the lawyer who was taking on Harvey Weinstein.

I want to ask you, Jeff, you claim that you are very interested in taking Weinstein's brother, Bob Weinstein's deposition, as well as other Weinstein Company employees to see who knew what and when. In other words, were other people within the Weinstein Company complicit? Did they, in my world, aid and abet him raping or sodomizing unsuspecting women? Explain your legal theory, Jeff Herman. Sure. Yeah. In fact, the second case that I filed for Katie and Noble actually also sued Bob Weinstein and the Weinstein Company for exactly

that, aiding and abetting what I consider to be a violation of the federal sex trafficking crimes, in that they knew, we alleged, that Harvey was using his position of power for decades to get women alone, sometimes in his hotel room, where he would then coerce them and then use physical force to get these women to engage in sexual behavior with him. At the same time, dangling help in their career, which in essence is sort of providing them with some sort of benefit. And because of that, we think that they're liable under these sex trafficking laws. And so with Bob, there's allegations that he even was paying for some settlements. You know, there's been settlements and allegations going back for decades, even before there was the wine-killing company, there was Miramax. And we believe that he knew it back then.

Jeff, who is your other client? So the other client is Katie Noble, who is a young British actress who met Harvey Weinstein at the BAFTA Awards in London. And Harvey came over to her, said he loved her look. He was going to help her in her career and then immediately put her in touch with people in his company. She followed up with them, sent them over a film reel, and then ran into Harvey again at the Cannes Film Festival. And she alleges there that Harvey said, oh, I haven't had a chance to see the film reel. Let's go up to my room and look at it, which he did.

But interestingly, when they get up to the room, he calls what go up to my room and look at it, which he did. But interestingly, when they get up to the room, he calls what he claims to be one of his producers. And he puts the producer on the phone with Katie and the producer says to her, listen, Harvey is going to take care of you. Just do whatever he wants. And she's not really sure what he's talking about, but they hang up the phone. They start watching the film reel. And then Harvey says to her, listen, I just really want you to like me. And he starts to touch her. She says no. She walks away.

He grabs her. She alleges he drags her into the bathroom where he puts her in front of the mirror. And then from behind, while he's watching himself do this, fondles her breast and then takes out his penis and puts her hand and holds it on her penis and masturbates himself while he's watching this in the mirror. I'm just a little confused. I feel like Alice in Wonderland where everything doesn't fit anymore. Why aren't there criminal charges? I want you to listen to this beautiful young actress.

She's just absolutely gorgeous. Katie-Ann Noble. Here she is speaking out, saying, quote, what he's done, it just ruins people's lives. Then I went to Cannes in May 2014. And whilst I was there, Harvey Weinstein approached me in the majestics in the lobby. It was quite forceful in the sense of telling me to relax and I think then I started to like get a little bit confused. He took hold

of me and pretty much forced me to walk with him to the bathroom where he stood me in front of the mirror and he stood behind me and I was like, what are you doing? And he's like touching me, rubbing me and he's like, just relax. And I'm telling him to stop and he would raise his voice but at the same time he kept reassuring me

that everything's going to be okay. Katie Noble is a British model and aspiring actress who is coming forward now over an alleged assault. And she speaks through tears, saying what he's done ruins people's life. She's suing not only Weinstein, but his brother Bob Weinstein and the Weinstein Company, claiming they violated U.S. sex trafficking laws when the high-profile Hollywood producer allegedly assaults her brutally in 2014. Now, this action has been filed in the district court in Manhattan. I'm just a little confused about something, Jeff Herman, with, as Alexis pointed out, now nearly 100 women claiming that he sexually attacked them. Why aren't there criminal charges? 2014. Now, her incident happened in France. So I understand why we cannot pursue him criminally for that one, only civilly

under, you know, the age old case international shoe, which everybody learns on day one in civil procedure. So we can sue him civilly here in the U.S. as you are doing, because he is sufficiently connected to the U.S. But in all the other cases, Jeff, why aren't there criminal charges, Jeff Herman? Well, so interestingly, Nancy, in 2008, Congress actually amended this federal sex trafficking statute and gave the U.S. courts jurisdiction for sexual assaults like this that take place in foreign countries. And so, you know, we don't make that decision, but Katie has met with the U.S. authorities when she was in New York, and she has told her story. You know, you're right. You're absolutely right. I was thinking about a typical rape case that would be held in state court. But you're absolutely right. Congress did that. The laws are on the books. So what's the

holdup? It's within the statute of limitations. Her allegations are 2014. So what's the holdup, Jeff? Well, she's made the report and and we trust that they're doing a proper investigation and so uh you know that's once once the victim makes the report you know she's sort of out of it and so we're waiting to see um in the meantime you know she's pursuing her her her right to a civil case and I'll tell you her story about it was really incredible to me because she said to me, she had finally resolved it in her own mind in earlier this year, that there was nothing she could do. She just decided that it was time to try to put it behind her. She actually was so traumatized. She attempted suicide back when this first happened

and her life flipped upside down and was trying to put the pieces back together. And then she says, you know, she starts to hear other victims coming forward. And so when she contacted me, she felt it was surreal that she might actually have a voice and that there might finally be some justice. Telling her story like she did when we did the press conference, she said was freedom in her mind. And that for the first time, she felt as though her life actually could move forward. And so this was really, I think, a tremendous milestone in this young woman's life. And I was so happy to see that for her. She says that Weinstein used Naomi Campbell and of all people, Oprah Winfrey, who is like beloved to trick her.

Now, don't think Naomi Campbell and Oprah Winfrey had anything to do with any of this. But what she saw was this alleged victim, Katie, and saw Weinstein hanging out with Naomi Campbell and had Oprah Winfrey near him. And she thought, wow, you know, it must be legit. I mean, of course, somebody like Weinstein would never, ever attack someone in power that could actually retaliate. Oh no, his victims are people that he believed nobody would ever listen to. That's the way he chose his victims. I want to pause very quickly and thank our partner making our program today possible as we investigate the allegations against Harvey Weinstein, including the plaintiff's lawyer, Jeff Herman, who was actually taking Weinstein on in court. If you're like everybody else, you probably haven't said no very much to sugary sweets during the holiday season. But that is exactly why you need to schedule an appointment with an awesome dentist you can find at 1-800-DENTIST. Now, this is what

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Linkakc.com, code Nancy. Thank you for being our partner today to dr bethany marshall la psychoanalyst dr bethany jeff herman was telling us about the alleged victim katie and says that she attempted suicide i was thinking about that when he said why why is that not uncommon? I would think that it's not just the rape itself, but it's the general betrayal. As you said, and Alexis was reporting on, he got his assistance to set her up, you know, and to not being able to talk to anybody about it, I think is a very profound negative consequence of all of this, not being able to go forward. Whenever a rape occurs, it's not just the rape itself that causes the trauma. There's cumulative trauma that goes on and on. And part of the trauma is the narrative that the victim weaves in her own mind about what

happened to her. So this may have set her up to feel like a victim in multiple areas of her life, to feel it, excuse me, a loss of volition, a loss of control, a loss of self-esteem. And, you know, to suicide or to make a suicide attempt. There's two types of suicide attempts, one in which the person really means to kill themselves, the other in which just the fantasy of not being on this earth anymore is a profound relief. And I think sometimes molestation and abuse victims fall into that second category where they think, boy, if I'm not on this earth anymore,

I'm just not going to have to think about all these terrible things that happened to me. Some victims that have attempted suicide have told me that they just wanted to end everything and it would be better to just sleep forever than to continue to go through the mental and emotional anguish that they're in after a violent crime. You know, I want to talk to you also about the arrogance. The feeling Weinstein must have had if these allegations are true to think that it's okay.

And just, for instance, in Cadian's case, he just seemed, he forced her to masturbate him, according to her, and just stepped over the pool of ejaculate on the floor, just stepped over it and walked out. And she's just standing there. I mean, the arrogance of that moment.

And then to go on to the next woman and the next woman and the next woman. I mean, it just seems like it never ends. You know, Nancy, every time I go on your show, I reread all of the offender typologies just so I really understand it. And one of the things that jumps out at me again and again, and it reminds me of Harvey Weinstein, is that this type of sex offender and rapist, let's just use the accurate language, this type of rapist imagines that the woman wants him, has a personality disorder, is sociopathic, and it's that sociopathy that informs how he carries out the crime. In other words, sociopaths are arrogant. They feel that they're above the law. They have no conscience

about hurting others. They're callous. They have callous disregard for the rights and safety of others they imagine that they're wanted and they have a notorious lack of insight into what goes on in the minds of others and nancy i actually treat a fair amount of sex addicts in my office people who have sex addiction and one of the notorious features of sex addiction, even if they're not offenders, they're just sexually addicted, is that they are never able to describe what goes on in the mind of the other person, whether it's somebody they meet casually in a bar or on the street or whatever. And they'll say things like, well, you know, that person, you know, he was sweating or she was sweating or she, you know, she looked kind of nervous. And I'll say, well, what do you think was going on in that person's mind? They are never, ever able to tell me. The sexual excitement, they wish to offend, getting off at other people's expense, takes over every part of their life. And so they have no idea of what's going on in the victim's mind. I just wonder how this whole,

yeah, I know, Just the height of arrogance. Alexis Tereschuk, it doesn't end with these ladies. Now there is a brand new case. Alexis Tereschuk, joining me from RadarOnline.com, that Jeff Herman is involved in. It's the Bryan Singer lawsuit. What can you tell me about that, Alexis? A man has accused Bryan Singer, the famous, famous director of X-Men, of assaulting him in 2003. He

said he was on a boat with him in Seattle, the famous director, and Mr. Singer offered to give him a tour of the yacht. And so, of course, he went with him. They went around. He went in the bedroom of the yacht, and Mr. Singer asked him for sex. He said, no, absolutely not. And he says that he, Brian grabbed him and sexually assaulted him and forced himself upon him. Jeff, how are you involved in this case as well? Right. So I represent this young man, Cesar Sanchez Boosman, in a civil lawsuit that we filed actually in the state of Washington against Brian Singer for the assault. Now, explain to me the charges that you have filed specifically.

Well, it's essentially a civil lawsuit for, we allege, the assault and battery against Caesar. Now, in this particular case, the alleged victim, Cesar Sanchez Guzman, files this lawsuit and claimed he didn't come forward at the age of just 17 because he did not want to be outed as gay. And he was distraught

about other people in his high school bullying him and mocking him and being cruel to him because he would have been outed as gay. So is that your understanding of it, Jeff Herman, why he didn't come forward at the time? Yeah, that's right. In fact, following the incident, he confided in a friend, a woman, and we spoke to her. And she confirms that she told him to go to the police. But he says he felt that it would just be so destructive. He comes from a very religious Pentecostal family.

And there's no way that he felt he could tell them that he was gay. They would not understand. And so he just had kept this to himself. Singer's lawyer claims that Caesar, quote, did not remember the incident from 2003 until now. Why is Singer's lawyer saying that? I have no idea where that comes from. He's never said that. Because he didn't come forward until now? Yeah, I have no idea.

Is that what he's trying to say? I don't know where that comes from. I saw that. That's just now what Caesar's alleging. from. I saw that. That's just not what Caesar's alleging. He's never maintained that. He's always remembered it. The issue for Caesar is he's really never connected all the things he's going through in his life, his damages, until fairly recently. And I guess with all the Weinstein, the flood of allegations against Weinstein, that flood is making other people who have been victimized

come forward and feel that they can come forward safely. I mean, you know, we think we are so enlightened and advanced, but gay teens, bisexual teens are still tortured, bullied, mocked, made fun of, and worse, and worse. And I can understand why he didn't want anyone to know. Grown men don't want anyone to know because of the fear they have of the repercussion. They don't want their family to know, their religious cohorts, their church or their synagogue. They don't want anyone to know. Maybe they think they'll lose a job because of it. And you know what?

People that claim that that is a sin, you know, that is between that person and God. You know, I think everybody better worry about keeping their own life in the middle of the road and not worry about who else is going to be in trouble in the next life. Okay, let's just try to focus on ourselves. There's plenty we can do to make ourselves better people than to attack others of some perceived offense. If this allegation is true, I am just so distraught, Alexis. I think about these Weinstein alleged victims that didn't come forward because they thought they'd lose their job or their livelihood, they'd never work again.

I think about this young guy, 17 at the time, that didn't want his family to know he was gay, didn't want his friends at school to know, was afraid to live his life. It just breaks my heart to think what victims go through each and every day. It's heartbreaking, Alexis. Well, and that's why with Harvey Weinstein, like the floodgates have been opened. And so many people that have hidden these stories for decades are coming out

because they finally feel that perhaps even if they don't see victory in court, they are seeing victory in their own personal lives because people are saying, we believe you, we support you, and we understand that you are a victim. That's what so many of these victims have said, that they are coming forward because they just want people to know that it happened to them and that they were not at fault. And so all of these victims are saying, it wasn't my fault. I thought it was my fault. They said, for years, I wanted a movie role.

I wanted to be successful in my career. And this person was the president of the industry, for lack of a better word, a king, if you must. Now I'm going to put yet another tough question to Jeff Herman. Jeff Herman, the Hollywood reporter, is reporting that in the past, you were actually accused of sex assault. Explain. Well, you know, I am obviously sensitive to the allegations and the impact that they can

have on people. But I've dedicated my career now to representing victims of sexual abuse. And, you know, I'm not going to criticize this woman. You know what, Jeff? It has been made very public in the Hollywood Reporter article. Jeff Herman, the go-to lawyer for Hollywood sex abuse claims, was once accused of rape. That is the banner, the headline in this Hollywood Reporter piece. I'm asking him about it now, and he refuses to comment on the accuser.

Jeff Herman, my focus today is on justice. And whatever the claim is against you, I want the truth to be known in that claim. And as far as Harvey Weinstein goes, same thing. I want the truth to be known in all of those cases. Whether it makes the courthouse fall down around us, let the truth be known and justice find a way. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.