Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - EXCLUSIVE: TEEN GAGS ON POOL BALL, SARAN WRAPPED HEAD, SUSPECTS POPEYES & PUTTPUTT, CHAINSAW

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Disturbing new details have emerged in the torture and murder of 16-year-old Miranda Corsette. Court documents reveal that at least six people knew Steven Gress, 37, and Michelle Brandes, 35, were holding Miranda against her will before she died. Gress allegedly sent photos of Miranda, visibly bruised, to three people, including his mother. She told police she did not view the images but admitted her son tried to talk to her about Miranda. She said she shut down the conversation, telling him she didn’t want to know. At least two neighbors reportedly saw Miranda in distress at the home. A woman who lived with Gress and Brandes witnessed a week of torture, the murder, and the clean-up that followed. The documents also outline a detailed timeline, including a trip to celebrate Brandes’ birthday at a Popeyes restaurant—while Miranda’s dismembered remains allegedly sat in Gress’ trunk. Joining Nancy Grace today: Dave Horton  -  Landlord of Gress' home Andrea Lewis  - Partner at Searcy Law in Pam Beach, Florida, Former Felony Prosecutor at Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office, and President of the Palm Beach County Bar Association, Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author of "Deal Breaker,” and featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive Paul Duffy - Senior consultant with Group 9 Security Consulting and Training, Former Deputy and Inspector with the United States Marshals Service Anna Sonoda - Child Grooming Expert, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, and Author: “Duck Duck Groom: Understanding How a Child Becomes a Target” Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), and NEW Podcast: "Mayhem in the Morgue" [launching on April 7]; Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Dan Sullivan - Staff Writer, Tampa Bay Times; X @TimesDan, BlueSky: timesdan.bsky.social, Instagram: @timesdansullivan See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young teen girl, Miranda, just turned 16. We now know from search warrant affidavits and returns. This little girl actually dies gagging on a pool ball forced into her mouth, her head wrapped mummy style with kitchen saran wrap. And then after child's body is dismembered. The perps leaving blood and human tissue up on the side of a house. They didn't even take a water hose for Pete's sake to clean off this child's blood. These two go out to celebrate with Popeyes and Putt-Putt after dismembering her with a chainsaw. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

Records reveal gruesome new details about the 16-year-old Florida teen's murder. Defendants allegedly ate Popeyes and played mini golf before incinerating Miranda Corsette's body. It all starts here when last week we obtained exclusive video of the co-defendants. Here he is, Gress, we believe taking the teen girl's body out to his vehicle, just sauntering along without a care in the world, not worried if he would be seen, nothing. He tucks the body into his vehicle, checks everything is just right. Nothing hanging out. Slams the trunk with the child's body in the car and saunters back in. Little did he know that his upstairs residence, this is a duplex, had her ring camera going the entire time and we got it. It's all caught on

video this and more. He's not even worried. This as we learn he and Beelzebub the minion from hell's assistant, forced a pool ball into this child's mouth, then wrapped her head mummy style in saran wrap until she died. In the last hours, we obtain more video and we enhance it NASA style to determine what exactly was being said at one juncture. I want you to see the video that we have enhanced. A neighbor comes from across the street and we hear her say the words, we hear Gress stating about the little girl quote, this punk stole my ring right here. The ate all the food in the kitchen. He's talking about a little girl.

The neighbor says the girl in the corner. Uh, yeah. What other girl? And the Gress says, yeah. He says, she says, that's her body. Yeah. Neighbor says, damn. Listen.

So my ring, my ring, my ring. The girl in the corner. That's her body. What is wrong with these people? I'm going to leave that to a jury. Thank goodness I got a shrink. But the shrink is joining us in about one minute. But first, I want to go to Dan Sullivan joining us, a writer for Tampa Bay Times at TampaBay.com, who obtained a lot of this affidavit and search warrant material.

Dan Sullivan, did you just see the video? The neighbor just saunters over and goes, well, that's her body. And Grace says, yeah. And all she says is, damn. What is wrong with this woman? I can't answer that. I know that what the police put in the search warrant was that at least one, that neighbor and at least a few other people were aware that this girl was with him during this week. You know, it's not clear. Dan Sullivan, guys, renowned writer for the Tampa Bay Times, states that his examination of court documents we've just obtained, they got it, revealed that at least six people knew the court documents, an affidavit, a sworn affidavit of what the officer, the detective learned. She wasn't just with him for an outing in the park.

She was being beaten, lying naked in a corner, begging for help. And everybody knew it. All of these people knew it. And in my mind are complicit, complicit with it. I mean, this neighbor sees her naked in the corner, Dan. I think it seems based on what's in the affidavit that people did know what was going on. It's not clear if every one of them knew the extent of what was going on. But it seems I mean, there were a few people who received photographs that showed her in worsening physical condition throughout the week. And you mean she's getting beaten more and more and more lying there naked in the fetal position in the corner? I'd say that is worsening condition. Yeah, it is. You know, according to what's in the search warrant that they did receive photos of what was going on.

Like I say, though, I mean, it's not clear if everyone that saw her knew the extent of what she was going through, but some of them, you know, it seems had reason to believe that there was something, you know, very wrong happening. Yeah. Something called child abuse, child rape and murder. Well, you're right. It is murky. And, you know, right now what I'm trying to figure out, Dan Sullivan, I'm trying to figure out the appropriate charges for these six ghouls, because right now they're not charged. But believe you me, Dan-hole, sent pictures of the little girl, a little girl. Dan, did you know my twins just turned 17? My daughter weighs about 90 pounds. She's nothing but lip gloss and eyelashes. This girl's 16, 16 Dan and beaten to a pulp. And these people send photos. The man, Gress, sends photos of the little girl to various people lying there, beaten and naked in the corner. Did you just say, Dan, that the photos got worse? The photos show her in increasingly worse physical condition.

And he kept photoing her and sending them from his phone. Yeah, that is that is what the police wrote in the search warrant that, you know, the photos showed her in increasingly worse physical condition. As far as whether, you know, anyone else might be charged, I don't know. Our local state attorney here, Bruce Bartlett, said that that's a possibility and that they're looking at that. I don't know if, you know, they might need any of these people to testify as witnesses and what factor that might play in. Absolutely.

You're right, Dan. You're thinking ahead. You're like five steps ahead of, of most people, maybe 10, because these six people, you know, I'm not a betting person because I've got children put through college. I don't want to waste my money on the slots. But if I were a betting person, I would bet that these six people are either going to be state's witnesses or co-defendants. Mark my words. They can all be thrown in the same pot to stew as far as I'm concerned.

Again, they're all presumed innocent. Dan, isn't it true the affidavit reveals that the defendants, quote, searched the girl's body cavities. That means her vagina, her anus, her mouth. For a stolen ring that really hadn't been stolen at all. Isn't that true? They did this to this little girl? Yeah, there is one part of the affidavit that describes that. And it does seem, based on what's in the affidavit, that Mr.

Gress apparently felt very strongly about this ring and believed that Miranda had taken it, done something with it, and really wanted to find it. There was some information from one of the other people. Really wanted to find it up her anus? That's according to the affidavit. That is what, you know, he's alleged to have done. There was some information from one of the other people involved that, you know, they believed that he, you know,

that Miranda had nothing to do with this ring and that it was actually the co-defendant, Ms. Brandis. Brandis. Had the ring all along. Isn't it true that Brandis, that the ring was quote found suddenly in Gress's car and Brandis insinuated, intimated to the third roommate that she had taken it. So Gress would get angry at the little girl and get rid of her.

Yeah, there was there was something to that effect in the search warrant. This was after the the the girl had that they had disposed of her body. You know what? We're spending a lot of time talking about the ring. And frankly, Dan Sullivan, I don't give a flying fig about the ring. That was just a pretext to beat this child. We're now learning from the affidavit that you obtained that Gress has a history of targeting, let me just say, troubled women and girls. We know that Miranda had lost both of her parents suddenly.

She was a little girl, lost both of her parents at a young age and moved in with Grandma. And Grandma was so happy that Miranda had a Valentine's Day date. That date is with her alleged killer, Gress, who lured her online. Speaking of the ring that was a pretext for abuse, torture, and murder. Listen to what the neighbor who saunters over and sees the girl and does nothing. We have managed to enhance the video from the upstairs residence ring cam. And I want you to hear what she says. Now, remember her last words you heard were that's her body damn listen to this the neighbor sees what's happening. The neighbor sees the little girl balled up in a corner crying. And you hear Gress say, she stole my ring.

And neighbor, how the hell are you going to get her out of here? Gress. Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out right now. And the neighbor says, don't kill her. I don't want to see the police up here. So she doesn't want them to kill the little girl because she doesn't want the police around. Wonder why. I think I know.

The affidavit does not, Dan Sullivan, refer to the neighbor as having sold pot to Gris in the past. That's correct. There is a portion of the affidavit where I believe that it says that, you know, I guess she came over to exchange in a drug transaction with him. We're not sure that this is the same neighbor,

but we do know that this neighbor that actually talks to Miranda lying there dying, she does not want the police quote up in here. Then the neighbor says, where you got the ring, honey? You could have just given it to him. It's not over yet. There is more from the neighbor and we've been able to enhance the video and the sound. Just the nature of this neighbor. She sees the girl lying there naked, dying and starts quizzing her about a ring. Listen. Joining me is renowned psychoanalyst, author of Deal Breaker, and you can see her now on Peacock, Dr. Bethany Marshall. Dr. Bethany, what is wrong with this woman? She just says to Grace, okay, don't kill nobody.

You're Michelle. I don't want to see the police up in here. That's just so casual. Nancy, this is so painful to hear. Actually, she says, is that the body? She doesn't say, is that Miranda or is that the little girl or teenager? Why isn't she in school? Already she's dehumanized and dead in the neighbor's mind. And in terms of this alleged crime, what perpetrators do is they create something called institutional psychopathology, where they gravitate towards one person who has a corruption of conscience, and that person gravitates towards another. And all of a sudden, they become a little group that has criminality in common, like a criminal

morning coffee clutch. We see this with child molesters, Nancy. I mean, they gravitate towards each other online. They pass pictures around. and this is what Gress is doing. Bethany, too many words. Boil it down. Give me the concentrate. Hit me. Birds of a feather flock together. Joining us now is a special guest. It's Dave Horton, the landlord at the Gress home, now believed to be murder scene. Mr. Horton, thank you for being with us. Oh, no problem. Mr. Horton, on the outside, your place looks, you know, perfect. Oh, thank you. Well manicured, painted, the works, but on the inside, it turns into a house of horrors for this little 16-year-old girl. Now, you just evicted Gress in the last hours. Explain to me what you discovered inside the murder scene. Oh, I couldn't believe it. You know, the place was, we had the inside fixed up just as nice. I spent a lot of time and money over there.

And it was just unbelievable, the damage that was in the kitchen and her bedroom. I had to evict them because there was rabbit feces everywhere in her room, all over the place. And we cleaned that up, you know, yesterday. And we got into a corner there and opened up a box and we seen a bunch of broken crystal meth pipes, a bunch of lighters and a little bag of meth. We threw that in the bottom of the garbage, took it out in the garbage man, took that away yesterday. It was just unbelievable. You evicted the residents. Why? took it out and the garbage man took that away yesterday. It was just unbelievable, you know. You evicted the residence. Why?

The eviction was due to nonpayment of rent. We wanted to get him out of there. And, you know, honestly, I started to evict him several years ago on a termination when he shot the window out of my kitchen with a BB gun. He had a BB hole in there. And I says, look, we don't put up with this kind of stuff around here, you know. And I spent $300 with a lawyer and they went out and served him. And, you know, he ended up showing up at my house. And I don't know now if it was he was threatening me or if he was just trying to plead like, you know, he would put on the nice guy face, you know, and, oh, I'll do anything.

Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I did that. And I'll, I'll behave. It'll never happen again. Well, it had, you know, it happened again. You know, you know, Dave Horton, you just said something I find very, very probative because many people and myself included wonder what attracted these women to this perv? Because he could put on, as you said, the nice guy face. Yes, he could. And I think he did that with the police, too. You know, they came out. Oh, no need to go inside the apartment. That was the Friday before.

When you went in the home to clean it out for the eviction, did you see any evidence that a teen girl had been held hostage there and murdered only later to be dismembered? No, there was no evidence whatsoever there. Really? You know, the place was just a complete, just like a bomb went off in there. You know, you didn't know what happened. You know, we had a police out there. When you say it looked like a bomb went off, are you referring to the fingerprint dust, the fingerprint powder all over the walls or something else? They went in there on the Friday after. I just, I almost gave up on the place because

the police was out there on a Friday and they wouldn't do anything. And Gypsy says, well, they came out and they didn't go inside. Well, obviously she heard something in there. That's why she called the police. You know, I understand that the mother came by and the only thing she cared about was the parrot. Yeah. Now, how I ended up running to them was through a friend of mine. And he had called me originally years ago and said, oh, you know, he knew Steve's mother. And apparently he kind of helps Steve's mother. He likes Steve's mom and they hang out, whatever. And he had called me and he says, Dave, is the parrot still over there at the house? And I knew it was at the animal control. And I says, no, no, it's still there at the house. And she goes, it was a $3,000 parrot.

I'm thinking I've got about five, $6,000 dollars in damages we got a dead 16 year old girl and all you're worried about is the damn bird the mother so when the mother came on preach it brother preach it she's all upset about the bird and the girl i know was tortured i know for days i know well lying there in a heap in the corner naked naked, bruised. Did you know that according to witnesses, your resident, your tenant would take pictures of the little girl, like lying there all bruised and send them to people. And as he continued to send them to people, Mr. Horton, every time there would be more bruises and she would look worse and worse and worse. And nobody did a thing.

I can't believe this, man. I can't believe it. I heard he sent pictures to the mother, too. No. Yeah. So I had the police detectives greet his mother when they when she came out there. She thought she was getting the bird, but she got to talk to them. And that's when she found out about the murder and everything else. She didn't even know about it, you know, until then, when she drove out there. Well, wait a minute. She got the pictures of the little girl naked, beat up in the corner, and she didn't know anything was going on? That's what I was told was on the news yesterday.

I'm not sure, you know. Well, somebody lied to you, man. They did? Well, yeah. She's getting pictures of the little girl, Miranda, just turned 16. We're showing pictures of her as a little girl right now, curled up in a ball in the fetal position in the corner, picture after picture after picture. And every time there'd be more bruises and more beatings on the girl. And so

she cannot, with a straight face, state, Hey, I didn't know anything. Where's my parent? Wow. Unbelievable. You know what? I bet a jury's going to believe it. And reminder, everyone, all of this bunch of people innocent in the eyes of lady justice until proven guilty in a court of law. Dave Horton, I bet you've got some stories to tell. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining us, Dave Horton, landlord at Defendant's home, he shared with two other women who, by their own words, were there and watched. One of them allegedly participating in the brutal, because I predict a jury is going to want to see the same. Thank you, sir.

Okay. Details emerge on 16-year-old Miranda Corsette's death. Documents reveal accused murderers ate Popeyes and played mini golf after torturing and holding Miranda captive for a week. Popeyes, putt-putt, and a chainsaw. You know, when I graduated law review from law school, I never thought that I would put those three ideas in one sentence, much less a pool ball. To Anna Sunoda joining me, child sex abuse grooming expert,

social worker, author of Duck, Duck Groom. The backdrop of what we're talking about right now is that the grandma was so happy that Miranda was going to have a Valentine's date, right? With Gris, a devil from hell. What's your message? I want every parent listening to know that children are actually following our lead.

They're using dating apps. The average 13 to 17 year old, 11% of those kids in that age group are on dating apps. We're talking Tinder, OkCupid, Match.com, Bumble. And we have to throw in Instagram because children are using Instagram as a dating tool. And every parent, my tip is pay attention to all online activity. Discuss the risk factors of meeting people online. And we need better, more robust age verifications.

Just like minors are misrepresenting themselves, so are adults. You really think a minor, a child is, what do you mean by more robust age verifications? If they want to get on Tinder or Grindr, they're going to. Do you really think a child that wants to get on a dating app is going to go, I better not lie. I better not check that box. Of course, they're going to check the box that they're 21 or older. You're absolutely right, Nancy. What we've done is we've modeled to children that it's perfectly acceptable to use dating apps to meet people. And as a result, the world is open to them.

Predators know this and they are the ones who are winning. They have a direct path to access minors, children who are vulnerable, children who want affection, want attention, are seeking love. This poor young child. Well, hold on. You know, I agree with everything you're saying, Anna, Sonoda, except I don't know that there's so much seeking love as an adult would describe it, but I think they're seeking acceptance that they may not be getting at school or in their world. And they're seeking friends. I mean, look at Miranda. She was 15 at the get-go. This little girl right there with her little critter. Both parents die suddenly. She's now living with grandma. She wants that dream she sees on TV with the boyfriend taking her out and having fun going

places. This is what she got, Anna. She got one of these crammed into her mouth, then her head wrapped in cellophane, which I'm about to get to. So I don't know if more robust age verifications are going to help anything, but I think it's more on the parents to stop it. But this grandmommy, what did she know? Probably doesn't even know what Google is for Pete's sake. I want to go quickly to Dan Sullivan. Dan, we're learning so much from the documents. As a matter of fact, listen. Court documents show that at least six people knew Stephen Grass and Michelle Brandes were holding 16-year-old Miranda Corsette against her will and beating her.

Grass allegedly sent photos of Miranda covered in bruises to three people, including his mother. Grass's mom denies viewing the photos, but admits to police that her son tried to tell her about Miranda. She shut down the conversation, telling her son that she didn't want to know. At least two neighbors also saw Miranda in distress at the home. And finally, a woman living with Gress and Brandis stood witness to a week of torture, Miranda's murder and the cleanup. Isn't it true, based on the documents that you obtained at Tampa Bay Times, that after the child was murdered, transported in the trunk, we see them all packing the car like they're going on for a weekend in the country. They go where, Dan Sullivan? Well, according to what's in the search warrant affidavit, they went putt-putt golfing and to Popeye's to eat fried chicken. The affidavit

states that I guess they went there because it was Brandis's birthday that day. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, repeat. They said the affidavit states that it was Brandis' birthday, so they went to eat fried chicken at Popeye's and putt-putt golfing. Joining me right now is Paul Duffy, senior consultant with Group 9 Security Consulting and Training, former deputy inspector with the U.S. Marshal Service. You can find him at group9.us. Paul, thank you for being with us.

Quick question regarding the evidence in this case. The photos are going to be damning. They're going to have to be obtained off of cell phones or from the cloud. But Dan Sullivan has just described these ghouls from hell taking the little girl. And Dan, did they go out for Popeyes and putt-putt before or after the dismemberment of this child? Yeah, the way the affidavit is written, it sounds like it was after they had dismembered the girl's remains that they went golfing and to Popeye's. Okay, Paul Duffy, Popeye's. And I believe it was Congo River. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anybody on the panel? Congo River putt putt. Popeye's and putt putt is going to be a treasure trove of evidence because it's my belief that they go,

they dismember the body at Brandis's mother's house and the mother and the granny nanny are in there and they can hear a chainsaw outside. What do they think is happening? Human tissue and blood is found on the side of Michelle Brandis' co-defendant mother's house. They didn't even take a garden hose to like clean off the site. They just left the little girl's blood on the side of the house. But after they dismember her, and correct me again if I'm wrong, Dan Sullivan, they put her dismembered remains back in the car. And to celebrate Brandis' birthday,

he wanted to make her feel special. They go to Putt-Putt and Popeyes. Now, Paul, this is what I would like to show a jury. I would like to show video surveillance of these devils from hell playing Putt-Putt. How many rounds did they play? Did they keep score? Were they like, whoa, I got a hole in one. And then I'd like to find out from the drive-thru or did they eat inside? I'd like to see the video of them eating a fried chicken while this girl chopped up is in the car.

What did they talk about at lunch? Did they talk about where we're going to dump the body? I just, I want to see the video. What about it, Paul Duffy? That video would be compelling in court, Nancy. It would paint a picture that they were remorseless and depraved and add to the indications that this is perhaps not Steve's first rodeo. Speaking of the evidence, speaking of that video, I pray to heaven, Paul Duffy. And I learned this the hard way in the Chandra Levy case where Chandra Levy, you remember the D.C. intern that was murdered. The high rise where she lived in D.C. would restart and tape over surveillance video,

like every 72 hours. And I could have learned a lot if I had known when she left her apartment for the last time, was she dressed up to go out? Was she, um, did she, she was going jogging? Was she with anybody? Could I see her go out and get in a cab and I can find that cab and I can find where she went from that cab driver? You know, every cab is identified with a number. But no, they re-racked it every 72 hours. So all that evidence was lost. I pray to heaven that Popeyes and Congo River Putt-Putt doesn't do the same thing. Is there any chance they would store that in the cloud, even if they, you know, tape over?

All security systems aren't equal, Nancy. It all depends on what the business invested in their security system. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Paul Duffy, you and I can explore the ins and outs, the intricacies of saving digital data on the cell phones, the nav system in the car. I think there was one. Toll roads. Florida is full of toll roads where I'll get video of them just driving happily along, going on their merry way with the child's dead body in the trunk. I want it all. I want

license grabbers showing their route to Brandis's mother's house. I want to find out if there's video surveillance video at the mother's house. Is there stoplight camera? Is there anything that I can show this jury to corroborate testimony? I want all that digital data, every bit of it. But what is very powerful is the ring camera from the upstairs residence home. And I would have this neighbor on the hot seat explaining to her what accessory after the fact means. And this is why. Listen. I stole my ring right here, man. Got my ring here. The girl in the corner?

Yeah. That's her body? Yeah. She's old. The neighbor says Miranda stayed at the home for several days with no issues until Gress woke up to find he's missing a ring given to him by a friend. She says Gress accused Miranda of stealing it and flew into a rage when she only trembled in fear at his accusation. After two days of brutal beatings, Brandis sneakily shows her roommate that she has the ring, hiding it from Gress. The woman believes Brandis took the ring to provoke Gress into hurting Miranda. Okay, so the female roommate turned murder code defendant, Brandis, Michelle Brandis, had the ring all along?

Okay, to Dan Sullivan, isn't it true, Dan joining us from Tampa Bay Times, who's cracked this case wide open, isn't it true that Gress says it was Brandis, after he shoved the pool ball in the little girl's mouth as she's tied up naked, I guess, on a chair, that Brandis wrapped her head in saran wrap? And he said, don't cover her nose. But she did cover her nose. And that grass says he rushed over and punched holes in it so she could breathe. But she was already dead. Isn't that in the affidavit? Yeah, I believe, according to the other witness, she said that Brandis actually put the pool ball in Miranda's mouth and then was wrapping her head in saran wrap. And there was some discussion about, you know, Gress saying that he wanted to put holes or not to cover her nose and wanted to put holes in the wrap

so she could breathe but couldn't get to her quick enough. You know, there was some. Right. So let me understand something. Andrea Lewis joining me, veteran trial lawyer, partner at Searcy Law Firm, Palm Beach, former felony prosecutor. Andrea, you're not a prosecutor anymore. You're on the other side. So let me understand, is Gras going to somehow, they're all doing this. They're all pointing the finger at each other. And we've got more video to show you of that. But Andrea

Lewis, I see Gras swooping in with a she done it. And I tried to save her. I tried to punch holes in the saran wrap. Why did you let saran wrap get wrapped around her head to start with? So what is he going to try to blame Brandis and Brandis is going to blame him and the roommates like I had nothing to do with this. Nancy, I am sure that that's what they're going to try to do. But here's the problem with that, right? We have this man that went online and actually found this child, enticed her into coming over to his home for nefarious, we know he had

nefarious motives. We know that they were sexually motivated. He's the one who brought her over there. This is his house of horrors that we know that there were crimes being committed inside there. This man is evil at his core, and it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, for him to direct all of the guilt here onto his co-defendant. Now, he is not going to be able to escape unfazed here, in my opinion. So, Andrea, what would the defense be? Well, the defense in this case has got to be, it wasn't me. It was my co-defendant. It was somebody else. And I think what they're going to try to do here is that we know that the death penalty is going to be on the table, as it should be. So I think what, given all of the evidence in this case and the video, it's going to be overwhelming.

Their best bet is going to try to be just to plea this case out to something less. Okay, yeah, well, if the DP is on the table, I don't see a plea happening. And in addition, I imagine either the first or the last witness, if I was trying the case, it would probably be the first witness, although that would be going out of chronological order, which the jury really likes. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I think the jury needs to know at the get-go the COD cause of death of this little girl. Dr. Kendall Crowns is a renowned medical examiner joining us out of Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth, Texas. He is launching a new podcast in a week, April 14, Mayhem in the Morgue.

He is an esteemed lecturer at Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Dr. Kendall crowns, what would be after all of this, what would be the COD? Could it be the beatings? Is there internal bleeding as she bled out on the inside? Did she die of asphyxiation when the pool ball gag in her mouth? Or was it the saran wrap taken right out of the kitchen drawer and wrapped around this child's head what how do i determine with all of that happening to this little girl miranda what is the cod plus she was dismembered we don't have a body but in your expertise dr crowns what would be the COD? Based on all the information we have that she's beaten, she's gagged,

saran wrap put around her face, to me it would be more likely than not a suffocation. With the gag being put in her mouth and the saran wrap covering her head, she wouldn't be able to get oxygen in and she would basically suffocate from lack of oxygen. Now, was the beatings bad enough? You have a progression of the beatings seen in the pictures of her having multiple bruises over time. So I don't think the beatings were actually bad enough to have killed her. I think that was more of a torture method. And their final thing that killed her was actually shoving the pool ball in her mouth and putting saran wrap over her head. So I feel cause of death would be asphyxiation or suffocation, manner of death, homicide.

Dan Sullivan, it's a no-body case. We don't have a body. The body's very likely been incinerated. So that's a problem. But I don't believe the defendant's have a gold star or an A plus because they managed to get rid of the body. What do you foresee happening? Do you believe the six ghouls

that knew this child was being tortured and killed and sat by him and they actually heard the chainsaw outside as this child was being dismembered. And nobody did a thing. Nothing. Do you expect charges of accessory after the fact? It's hard for me to answer that.

Not being a lawyer, I think there is a possibility. And our local state attorney has said that, you know, they're looking at, you know, whether anybody else could face charges. But again, you know, it's also possible that they will need these people as witnesses. So that could influence, you know, any decision about other charges. It's also unclear, you know, at least with the upstairs neighbor, the one who had the surveillance video, if she, you know, was aware of what was going on. It doesn't seem like she was, but it definitely seems like there were other people who were

aware that Miranda was in trouble. Right. I agree. The upstairs neighbor was very, very cooperative and very distraught when we spoke to her and she gave us all of that video. We wait as justice unfolds. And now we remember an American hero, Special Agent Derek Behr, USPS Office Inspector General, killed in the line of duty. A U.S. Coast Guard vet, served LA law enforcement 15 years, leaving behind a wife-turned-widow,

Lineke, children Alexander, Evelina, and Vivian. American hero, special agent Derek Baer. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. you're listening to an iHeart podcast